Log for #openttd on 10th March 2019:
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00:02:53  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
00:03:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7355: Fix e4cc06f67: [AzurePipelines] rebase only for PRs
00:05:03  <glx> and skipping works
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00:06:15  <glx> it displays 'Rebase to $(System.PullRequest.TargetBranch)' but not important as the task is skipped
00:07:16  <TrueBrain> lol
00:07:19  <TrueBrain> owh well indeed :)
00:07:21  <TrueBrain> we will fix that some day :)
00:07:33  <TrueBrain> nice!
00:07:38  <glx> the important part was to restore master builds
00:08:33  <glx> possible fix is to put the condition on the template call
00:09:05  <TrueBrain> no; templates are resolved on startup
00:09:09  <TrueBrain> they cannot access runtime variables
00:09:13  <TrueBrain> I found that out the hard way :D
00:09:31  <peter1138> "Rebase to target branch"
00:09:35  <peter1138> Static string :p
00:09:38  <TrueBrain> ^^ :)
00:10:37  <glx>
00:10:41  <glx> that could work
00:11:13  <glx> or maybe not
00:11:15  <TrueBrain> glx: those are parameters
00:11:17  <TrueBrain> not variables
00:11:29  <TrueBrain> you can resolve the full template without knowing anything about what is being build
00:11:34  <glx> yes I was just reading too fast
00:11:36  <TrueBrain> (that is in fact exactly what it does :D)
00:12:21  <TrueBrain> took me only a week to figure out how they did it :P
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00:28:09  <glx> hmm the rebase part for commit checker won't be enough, there's also the hooks call
00:28:23  <TrueBrain> what do you mean?
00:28:36  <glx> HOOKS_DIR=/git-hooks GIT_DIR=.git /git-hooks/ origin/master..HEAD
00:28:47  <glx> on release/1.9 that will fail
00:29:04  <TrueBrain> same docker, not?
00:29:21  <glx> it's ci-commit-checker yes
00:30:17  <glx> the PR part is easy, we'll have ${TARGET_BRANCH}
00:30:51  <glx> but the non PR needs a git call to get the branch I guess
00:31:02  <TrueBrain> I think there is a variable too if it is not a PR
00:31:12  <TrueBrain>
00:31:14  <TrueBrain> Source branch?
00:31:28  <TrueBrain> Build.SourceBranchName
00:31:30  <TrueBrain> sounds promising
00:31:47  <TrueBrain> but ... origin/master..HEAD is 0
00:31:53  <TrueBrain> so ... we can also just skip it for non-PRs :P
00:32:00  <TrueBrain> like .. the whole docker run
00:32:26  <glx> but a squash can change the commit
00:32:38  <TrueBrain> how to know what was changed?
00:32:46  <TrueBrain> currently it is not relaly working, I am guessing
00:32:50  <TrueBrain> so what ever you do, it accept it
00:33:13  <glx> yes currently it's mostly a compile check after merge
00:33:33  <TrueBrain> and isnt that enough?
00:33:39  <TrueBrain> as you cannot fix a commit message after merge anyway
00:33:44  <TrueBrain> so .. failing on that is .. rather silly :D
00:33:49  <glx> true
00:34:03  <TrueBrain> so I am also fine if you just skip this docker on non-PR
00:34:06  <TrueBrain> but that is just my 2 cents :)
00:34:14  <glx> and I guess nightly doesn't run commit checker anyway
00:34:55  <TrueBrain> indeed. releases != CI, no CI targets are executed during building of any release
00:34:59  <TrueBrain> (not even regression is called)
00:35:15  <glx> so yes a skip will do
00:35:31  <TrueBrain> still needs the TARGET_BRANCH stuff for 1.9
00:35:41  <TrueBrain> but it makes it a tiny bit easier I guess :)
00:40:08  <glx> hmm skipping the docker won't be easy as all dockers are started by template
00:40:34  <glx> but skipping the checks inside the docker is simple
00:40:36  <TrueBrain> copy it, and condition it, I guess
00:41:39  <supermop_Home__> Europeans are pretty active for how late it is over there?
00:42:00  <TrueBrain> you don't pay my subscription! :P
00:42:14  <glx> oh I can test the tag
00:42:18  <TrueBrain> glx: I think doing it in the docker is the wrong approach; it might seem it did his job, but didn't, or something
00:52:52  <Samu_> hi
00:57:22  <TrueBrain> right, off to get some sleep; nn!
01:04:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] glx22 opened pull request #30: Fix #29: don't assume master as target branch
01:05:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
01:18:19  <TrueBrain> Nice work glx! if this work, ship it! (cant approve from mobile .. sorry :( )
01:19:01  <glx> #7356 fails
01:19:33  <glx> I made an error in yaml but I don't find any clear doc
01:21:15  <glx> "Specify each name-value pair on a new line." I tried the usual "name: value" but that doesn't work
01:22:36  <TrueBrain> did you check Docker@1?
01:22:47  <TrueBrain> version might be important
01:26:16  <glx>  tl.getDelimitedInput("envVars", "\n").forEach(envVar => {
01:26:16  <glx>         command.arg(["-e", envVar]);
01:26:17  <glx> });
01:26:19  <TrueBrain>
01:26:23  <TrueBrain> example
01:26:28  <glx> it's the format, not the version :)
01:27:02  <glx> yup the format indeed
01:27:06  <TrueBrain> so yeah ..  'key=value'
01:27:08  <TrueBrain> stupid
01:27:12  <TrueBrain> lazy ..
01:27:26  <TrueBrain> they should have done that properly
01:27:34  <TrueBrain> or add an example to the docs
01:27:40  <TrueBrain> owh well
01:29:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
01:32:38  <glx> [command]/usr/bin/docker run -e TARGET_BRANCH=master --rm -v /home/vsts/work/1/s:/home/vsts/work/1/s -w /home/vsts/work/1/s openttd/compile-farm-ci:commit-checker
01:32:42  <glx> should work
01:33:48  <glx> but the CompileFarm change is not really testable before it goes live
01:46:43  <peter1138> Hmm
01:46:46  <planetmaker> @logs
01:46:47  <DorpsGek> planetmaker:
01:47:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
01:48:08  <peter1138> A pipe?
01:48:47  <glx> that's usual azure yaml
01:52:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
01:52:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
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01:57:19  <peter1138> < yay/nay?
01:58:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
01:58:31  <glx> I like the icons
01:58:55  <peter1138> Makes the list a bit taller though.
01:59:03  <peter1138> Maybe it should crop. Hmm.
01:59:09  <glx> how does it look with font zoom ?
02:01:01  <peter1138> < extreme.
02:01:10  <peter1138> < reasonable.
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02:03:29  <glx> no need to crop for me
02:04:10  <Samu_> wow nice stuff
02:05:02  <Samu_> just installed cinebench r20 and it's all blurry
02:05:34  <Samu_> can't believe this is only available from microsoft store
02:06:16  <Samu_> high dpi aware issues
02:06:30  <Samu_> and i can't fix it
02:07:45  <Samu_> rail icons in the list is actually a good idea
02:08:42  <Samu_> 1093 for my cpu, cool, time to uninstall
02:08:59  <peter1138>
02:09:08  <peter1138> ^ some authors are lazy :(
02:09:30  <peter1138> That narrow gauge is the same gauge...
02:11:45  <glx> yes same icons for all types, almost useless in this case
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02:41:38  <peter1138> So should I approve this one? 7356...
02:41:45  <peter1138> Last time I approved I got it wrong :p
02:44:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7357: Drop down list code cleanups
02:44:54  <Samu_> DeliverGoodsToIndustry conflicting again
02:44:57  <Samu_> omg
02:50:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
02:51:08  <Samu_> for (Industry *ind : st->industries_near) {
02:51:11  <Samu_> what is this?
02:51:22  <Samu_> never seen a for like this before
02:51:30  <peter1138> C++11 iterator syntaxc
02:51:32  <peter1138> -c
02:53:03  <peter1138> It's short-hand for `for (IndustryList::iterator it = st->industries_near.begin(); it != st->industries_near.end(); ++it) { Industry *ind = *it;`
02:54:17  <Samu_> really interesting
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02:56:52  <Samu_> num_pieces was moved
02:58:06  <peter1138> Only into the loop.
02:58:12  <peter1138> It does the same thing.
02:59:32  <peter1138> q
02:59:37  <Samu_> where is the neutral station check?
02:59:42  <Samu_> is gone?
02:59:47  <peter1138> Unnecessary.
03:00:28  <Samu_> how come? what happened, i missed something
03:00:31  <peter1138> If it's neutral, st->industries_near will only contain the associated industry.
03:00:46  <peter1138> And vice-versa, ind->stations_near will only contain the neutral station.
03:00:59  <Samu_> oh
03:01:23  <peter1138> Yeah, it was kinda merged in the wrong order, but I only realised that afterwards.
03:01:55  <peter1138> It's simpler now.
03:01:56  <Samu_> ok removing it
03:02:03  <peter1138> Removing what?
03:02:30  <peter1138> Oh, in your conflicts, I guess.
03:04:48  <peter1138> Bah, I wish github supported PR dependencies.
03:08:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
03:12:43  <Samu_> the order of _cargo_delivery_destinations.Include(ind);
03:12:49  <Samu_> is weird
03:13:06  <Samu_> i think i better do this in another way
03:13:10  <peter1138> Hmm?
03:13:23  <Samu_>
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03:13:39  <peter1138> Super build failure.
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03:14:12  <peter1138> Did you rebase and commit without even compiling it? o_O
03:14:47  <Samu_> yes
03:14:57  <Samu_> failing somewhere else now :(
03:14:59  <peter1138> s/commit/push/
03:16:02  <Samu_> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State
03:16:02  <Samu_> Error (active)	E0135	class "std::set<Station *, StationCompare, std::allocator<Station *>>" has no member "Include"	openttd	D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD GitHub\OpenTTD\src\station_cmd.cpp	3918
03:16:15  <Samu_> bah
03:16:39  <Samu_> this was working yesterday
03:18:29  <peter1138> It's changed from a SmallVector to a std::set
03:18:54  <peter1138> You can replace .Include() with .insert()
03:19:21  <peter1138> m3henry is going to hate me :(
03:20:26  <Samu_> has no member Begin
03:20:29  <Samu_> has no member End
03:20:37  <Samu_> has no member Length
03:20:41  <Samu_> rip :p
03:21:21  <peter1138> Begin -> begin, End -> end, Length -> size
03:21:52  <Samu_> oh, that simple?
03:22:23  <peter1138> Ah no.
03:22:33  <peter1138> StationList used_stations.
03:22:50  <peter1138> Not going to work as a StationList now. Hmm.
03:23:07  <peter1138> SmallVector<Station*, 4> used_stations; would work BUT
03:23:16  <peter1138> std::vector<Station *> used_stations would be better.
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03:26:45  <Samu_> QSortT doesn't like some stuff
03:32:24  <Samu_> i'm lost, I have no idea what to do
03:32:35  <Samu_> it killed the PR
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03:37:16  <Samu_> IndustryList also giving me trouble
03:38:01  <Samu_> binary '[': 'const IndustryList' does not define this operator or a conversion to a type acceptable to the predefined operator
03:38:21  <Samu_> Industry *ind = st->industries_near[RandomRange(st->industries_near.size())];
03:38:26  <Samu_> does not like the randomrange
03:39:45  <peter1138> It's not the RandomRange, it's the [ ]
03:40:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on pull request #7348: Fix: IniLoadFile::LoadFromDisk seems to expect filename, BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile provides fullpath
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03:41:15  <Samu_> SmallIndustryList still works
03:41:23  <Samu_> what's the difference
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03:48:14  <Samu_> I cannot sort stations?
03:48:23  <Samu_> can't iterate backwards either?
03:48:39  <Samu_> rip pr 7184
03:48:44  <Samu_> it was good while it lasted
03:51:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
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05:18:27  <Samu_> I think I did it
05:19:11  <Samu_> will post tomorrow, too late now
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07:17:22  <Alberth> moin
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07:36:04  <andythenorth> moin
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07:41:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
07:41:39  <nielsm> morning
07:43:37  <andythenorth> hi nielsm
07:46:02  * andythenorth wonders where FIRS 'leftover cargo' originates
07:48:02  <andythenorth> <!--! Account for cargo 'wasted' in output calc (due to integer division discarding fractional values) - keep it for next production cycle -->
07:51:16  <andythenorth> seems it basically stores "waiting cargo mod 8"
07:51:22  <andythenorth> with some extra considerations
07:52:03  <andythenorth> faff
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07:54:39  <peter1138> Faff
07:55:28  <andythenorth> let's do some maths
07:55:38  <andythenorth> deliver 12t of coal
07:55:50  <andythenorth> industry produces output at 2/8 of input
07:56:03  <andythenorth> so 3t output?
07:56:12  <andythenorth> why muck about with 'leftover'?
07:56:33  <andythenorth> is there a minimum distributed amount?
07:56:48  <Alberth> 1, most likely :)
07:56:56  <Alberth> o/  btw
07:56:59  <andythenorth> hi
07:57:09  <andythenorth> I could go and see if the old nml code is any more clear on this
07:58:22  <Alberth> most likely, someone had the idea that you'd have to convert all input to output eventually
07:58:40  <Alberth> that ends in keeping the remaining last cargo naturally
07:59:14  * andythenorth wonders what was wrong with nfo anyway :x
07:59:34  <andythenorth> as long as you comment every byte, it's 100% readable :P
08:01:17  <Alberth> mostly the need to remember all the numbers, and tedious searching for typos in them, probably
08:02:23  <Alberth> there seems to be some middle ground here, one extreme is nfo, the other extreme is nml and beyond
08:02:58  <Alberth> m4nfo is more in the middle ground, some higher level concepts, but you still need to combine them yourself to make it work
08:03:23  <Alberth> ie one line in your nfo could be one statement, for example
08:03:45  <andythenorth> "//!! not really sure what is going on with A9, seems to duplicate AA - AC section of chain?"
08:03:51  <peter1138> I think andythenorth would find nml simpler if he was actually writing nml, not whatever the weird meta language on top.
08:04:06  <andythenorth> yes
08:04:18  <Alberth> nml scales badly to larger grfs is the problem perhaps
08:04:19  <andythenorth> I would find the overall project much harder, but you're correct
08:04:42  <andythenorth> it means (1) I don't know nml very well (2) I have complicated templates which are very hard to read
08:05:01  <andythenorth> also (3) I'm using python to template a language that is python-ish in places, but also not
08:05:08  <andythenorth> so it's brainfart a lot
08:05:51  <Alberth> may I suggest you try my py-xpd macro language, it's designed as a much simpler cpp pre-processor
08:06:25  <andythenorth> where's the repo? o_O
08:06:44  <Alberth>
08:07:00  <andythenorth> also parts of FIRS repo from 10 years ago suggest that 'leftover cargo' is to prevent cargo being left in the stockpile
08:07:12  * andythenorth wonders how many units it''s worth saving though
08:07:38  <Alberth> also based on python instead of having to install the mingw-or-whatever toolchain on windows for cpp
08:07:57  <andythenorth> oof CPP :)
08:08:02  <andythenorth> I don't miss those days
08:08:31  <andythenorth> how do macro languages do loops?
08:08:31  <Alberth> for C and c++ it works, because the macros are small if you're a sane programmer
08:09:18  <Alberth> mostly not, or by recursion
08:09:22  * andythenorth might be having a trip to src/industry_cmd.cpp next
08:09:32  <andythenorth> there must be a reason for pissing about with cargo amounts < 8
08:09:38  <andythenorth> we wouldn't have just invented it
08:10:19  <andythenorth> what's the smallest amount OpenTTD can move to a station?
08:10:28  <Alberth> default industries might just have been coded like that
08:11:06  <Alberth> I would hope it's 1 unit of cargo
08:11:13  <andythenorth> indspec->minimal_cargo
08:11:56  <peter1138> NRT?
08:12:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
08:12:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7352: Feature: Railtype flags to allow/disallow 90 degree curves.
08:12:58  <andythenorth>
08:13:03  <Alberth> isn't that the minimum to avoid closure?
08:13:08  <LordAro> peter1138: merge it
08:13:32  <andythenorth>
08:14:08  <andythenorth> hmm
08:14:09  <andythenorth>         self.min_cargo_distr = '5' # just use the most common value from default OTTD industries, this property needs set but has little use
08:14:31  <peter1138> LordAro, I can technically as andythenorth opened the PR, but all the commits are by me now.
08:14:50  <andythenorth> the production code makes no reference to min_cargo_distr, it does something different
08:14:58  <andythenorth> (in FIRS)
08:15:06  <andythenorth> archeology
08:15:55  <andythenorth> afaict, FIRS tries to minimally produce 8 units, and save any cargo that would result in < 8 for next production run
08:16:02  <andythenorth> very diligent, but really?
08:17:11  <andythenorth> I might sack all this crap in favour of a simple loop
08:17:15  <andythenorth> then await bug reports
08:18:02  <LordAro> peter1138: guess someone else should actually look over it :p
08:18:11  <peter1138> Yeah, I'll merge if someone approves
08:18:13  <andythenorth> it's fine
08:18:23  <andythenorth> "it's fine"
08:18:34  <andythenorth> is it breakfast time?
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08:21:21  <peter1138> It was, I ate mine.
08:21:48  <peter1138> Two turkey 'rashers' and an egg on a potato farl. Very protein.
08:21:51  <andythenorth> oof
08:22:39  <andythenorth> currently the biggest problem with FIRS is WoT Blitz
08:23:20  <peter1138> Hmm, couldn've done it as a half-English, damn. Added beans, sosigs, mushrooms and onion. No black pudding or hash browns though.
08:23:24  <peter1138> -n
08:23:47  <peter1138> So I ought to go cycling today, but it's very windy.
08:24:09  <andythenorth> 47-50mph here
08:24:22  <peter1138> Yeah, wind 25 gusting to 46.
08:26:12  <peter1138>
08:26:26  <peter1138> ^ needs anything more for those two flags?
08:26:58  <peter1138>
08:27:19  <peter1138> ^ needs fixing for 1.10 :/
08:29:05  <peter1138> Bah, wiki password not working.
08:30:12  <andythenorth> again?
08:30:29  <andythenorth> turn it off and on again
08:39:11  <peter1138> So when does github gain PR dependencies?
08:39:23  <peter1138> I have one that depends on #7357.
08:40:38  <peter1138> Follows on to
08:40:56  <peter1138> Originally a patch I wrote for r18931.
08:41:31  <peter1138> Only 9 years old.
08:46:39  <andythenorth> very icon
08:51:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain approved pull request #30: Fix #29: don't assume master as target branch
08:51:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain merged pull request #30: Fix #29: don't assume master as target branch
08:51:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain closed issue #29: Commit checker always expect origin/master, even for non master PRs
08:51:53  <peter1138> :-)
08:52:13  <LordAro> peter1138: not going cycling today, just not feeling it :(
08:52:24  <peter1138> Same. Too windy & gusty.
08:52:41  <peter1138> I couldn't open the backdoor just now o_O
08:54:12  <LordAro> heh, nice. i don't have that excuse (yet) though...
08:56:53  <peter1138> So...
08:56:54  <peter1138> NRT?
08:57:28  <nielsm> merge ALL the patches YOLO!
08:57:29  <TrueBrain> why is this: marked as backport? Isn't it impossible to backport thta? :D
08:58:08  <nielsm> well, only if you assume someone is going to try a GS written for 1.9.0 final on 1.9.0-rc1
08:58:16  <nielsm> AI*
08:58:43  <TrueBrain> I guess. In my mind, RC means feature freeze
08:58:51  <TrueBrain> so adding things becomes a bit sketchy
08:59:03  <TrueBrain> but more to the point in this case, is that it requires a change both in master and the release branch
08:59:10  <TrueBrain> (comments for example need fixing)
08:59:15  <nielsm> hm yeah
08:59:18  <TrueBrain> it becomes a bit dodgy
09:00:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7336: Add: AI API for vehicle group colours
09:01:03  <peter1138> If it wasn't for the documentation, yeah, it's a quick thing.
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09:01:51  <peter1138> Anyway, I think it was flagged just to discuss it, not actually do it.
09:02:42  <TrueBrain> hence my question: should we? :D
09:02:47  <TrueBrain> as I was wondering the pros and cons :)
09:03:12  <peter1138> It's also a very minor feature addition that most AI authors will never use.
09:03:24  <TrueBrain> guess we have to balance it per PR, honestly
09:03:31  <peter1138> That's sensible.
09:03:38  <peter1138> I wouldn't bother backporting that one, personally.
09:03:39  <TrueBrain> the amount of work to 'correct' history vs the added value :D
09:04:10  <TrueBrain> well, your call; you are the author of the PR here :)
09:04:20  <peter1138> I am, but I didn't flag it as backport.
09:04:36  <LordAro> given it's "fixing" an oversight in the original PR, i don't mind too much
09:04:44  <LordAro> but i wouldn't want anything more than that, for sure
09:04:53  <TrueBrain> meh, glx's change breaks .. bah
09:04:58  <TrueBrain> I was sure it was going to work
09:05:03  <peter1138> :(
09:05:50  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I think the question was not as much if we mind, more the amount of work required to make it correct vs the benefit :)
09:06:08  <TrueBrain> I guess another way of putting it: is anyone going to do the legwork for it, and do we consider that time well spend :)
09:07:48  <TrueBrain> "error: malformed object name origin/$(System.PullRequest.TargetBranch)"
09:07:51  <TrueBrain> *facepalm*
09:08:13  <peter1138> Oops.
09:08:19  <LordAro> ha
09:08:44  <TrueBrain> sometimes it doesn't resolve variables .. sometimes it does
09:08:45  <TrueBrain> really annoying
09:10:30  <peter1138> Hmm, let's try this SDL 2 again.
09:12:59  <peter1138> Hmm 8bpp mode is *slow*
09:13:32  <peter1138> Oh. Hmm.
09:13:48  <peter1138> Must've been what was on screen
09:13:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7336: Add: AI API for vehicle group colours
09:14:50  <peter1138> I think it's a slippery slope. As you say, feature freeze.
09:14:55  <nielsm>
09:14:57  <nielsm> pretty amazing
09:15:05  <nielsm> why even bother with 1.9?
09:15:10  <TrueBrain> all documentation suggests the YAML should be fine; but why is the variable not resolved :(
09:15:13  <peter1138> nielsm, I know :/
09:15:43  <TrueBrain> nielsm: because otherwise you never release anything :D
09:16:03  <andythenorth> 1.9 is already old news
09:16:09  <andythenorth> in a good way
09:16:20  <peter1138> Release early, release often.
09:16:21  <TrueBrain> and given the current long cycles OpenTTD uses, it always has been that after a release is branched, tons of new shit hit the 'trunk' :) Guess that is fact of life :P
09:16:30  <andythenorth> that's how it works
09:16:41  <peter1138> For so many years development had been stagnant.
09:16:45  <andythenorth> and 'stable' will alway contain bugs that are fixed in trunk
09:16:50  <peter1138> It's just picked up a bit in the last year.
09:16:51  <andythenorth> and there is always a temptation to backport
09:16:56  <TrueBrain> 'a bit' :D
09:16:58  <TrueBrain> hihihi
09:17:00  <peter1138> A bit :)_
09:17:03  <andythenorth> release 3 times a year
09:17:06  <andythenorth> happy days
09:17:10  <peter1138> It's now at the point where a 3 or 4 month release is feasible.
09:17:15  <peter1138> Assuming it continues.
09:17:24  <TrueBrain> we just need to automate the process a bit more, but yeah
09:17:31  <andythenorth> well, it will slow down while we rewrite all the content APIs :P
09:17:32  <peter1138> We've had releases where the only savegame bump was for the new version.
09:17:38  <andythenorth> and the content authoring tools
09:17:42  <andythenorth> and bananaramas
09:17:52  <andythenorth> and we need a new website
09:18:02  <peter1138> April 2020 for 1.10 would be a mistake, certainly :)
09:18:10  <TrueBrain> yup
09:18:17  <andythenorth> August 1
09:18:22  <andythenorth> school holidays start
09:18:44  <TrueBrain> you want enough time to collect feedback on the biggest changes, even if only by a small portion of the population
09:19:06  <TrueBrain> or you want to switch to a CI/CD delivery, as in: feature hits 'stable' tomorrow :P
09:19:14  <TrueBrain> but that requires auto-updating :P
09:20:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7357: Drop down list code cleanups
09:20:13  <andythenorth> also, CI/CD makes it very hard to ever remove/break anything
09:20:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7357: Drop down list code cleanups
09:20:27  <andythenorth> major versions are a chance to kill old stuff
09:20:47  <peter1138> I think that's a bit extreme :-)
09:20:50  <peter1138> (CI/CD)
09:20:58  <TrueBrain> :D
09:21:24  <TrueBrain> why is Azure not resolving this variable :(
09:22:08  <LordAro> andythenorth: i wouldn't say "very hard" - see all of :p
09:28:18  <peter1138> Ah, loads of them are closed, phew.
09:29:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7358: Add: Construction type icons to rail and road construction drop down lists.
09:30:08  <peter1138> Ok, I've "just" realised why our vertical centering based on FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL looks a bit wrong sometimes...
09:30:14  <peter1138> Descenders.
09:32:44  <nielsm> PR?
09:33:28  <peter1138> Hmm.
09:33:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
09:33:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
09:34:37  <peter1138> nielsm, probably ought to wait til we're at least close to doing a 1.10-beta.
09:35:38  <LordAro> ^
09:35:52  <LordAro> i've never been a fan of projects that update the changelog for every commit
09:36:03  <TrueBrain> "##[error]error: malformed object name origin/${SYSTEM_PULLREQUEST_TARGETBRANCH}" <- PFFFTTT, so what is the right way of doing this .. :(
09:36:25  <LordAro> TrueBrain: is it $SYSTEM_PULLREQUEST_TARGETBRANCH ? :p
09:36:35  <TrueBrain> pretty sure that is not it :)
09:36:47  <peter1138> LordAro, I used to do that back in the day. Monodevelop would automatically update the changelog with commit message.
09:37:11  <peter1138> LordAro, it was a fucking horrible pain in the arse to merge anything, as it ALWAYS conflicted on the stupid stupid changelog file.
09:37:19  <peter1138> And it only ever said the same as the commit message anyway.
09:37:27  <LordAro> mm
09:37:48  <TrueBrain> that is why a lot of projects are using now
09:37:55  <TrueBrain> and autogenerate changelogs from there
09:37:55  <peter1138> :-)
09:37:56  <TrueBrain> MAGIC
09:38:27  <TrueBrain> would be terrible for OpenTTD itself btw
09:38:32  <TrueBrain> we suck at commit messages :D
09:38:39  <peter1138> We kinda do that, but...
09:39:01  <TrueBrain> well, such autogeneration might fix us sucking :D
09:39:10  <peter1138> There is that.
09:40:02  <TrueBrain> "/usr/bin/docker run -e TARGET_BRANCH=${SYSTEM_PULLREQUEST_TARGETBRANCH} .."
09:40:03  <peter1138> It does look a bit weird.
09:40:06  <TrueBrain> that should work, not?
09:40:09  <peter1138>
09:40:28  <TrueBrain> it is very computer-ish talk :)
09:40:34  <LordAro> TrueBrain: it'll get expanded before docker sees it, if that's what you want
09:40:53  <TrueBrain> LordAro: well ..  it doesn't .. which is what I find odd
09:40:54  <peter1138> What will be expanding it?
09:41:00  <LordAro> the shell
09:41:00  <TrueBrain> but I would expect it should
09:41:09  <peter1138> Hm
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09:44:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
09:44:27  <peter1138> You're using $( ) elsewhere, not ${ }
09:44:41  <TrueBrain> ${} for bash env resolving
09:44:47  <TrueBrain> $() for Azure Pipeline resolving
09:44:49  <TrueBrain> tried both ..
09:44:50  <TrueBrain> meh
09:45:15  <TrueBrain> I am now just blindly guessing solutions :D
09:45:29  <peter1138> Hmm, right, so you'd expect bash to be resolving it to "" if it was blank, rather than leaving it as is.
09:45:32  <TrueBrain> quoting worked :o
09:45:36  <peter1138> wut
09:45:50  <TrueBrain> AP can be a bit .. funky
09:46:07  <TrueBrain> "/usr/bin/docker run -e 'TARGET_BRANCH=master'"
09:46:09  <TrueBrain> so yeah ..
09:46:45  <LordAro> mm, probably being expanded too early in the ...pipeline
09:47:04  <TrueBrain> now I hope Docker understands '' :P
09:47:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
09:48:06  <TrueBrain> lets check if that fixes 1.9 ..
09:48:30  <andythenorth> LordAro: by 'very hard' I mean giving player the choice to stay on old major version, to keep old behaviour
09:48:36  <andythenorth> if they're really attached to it
09:48:42  <andythenorth> auto-updater breaks that
09:48:58  <peter1138> Steam? ;)
09:49:27  <TrueBrain> hmm .. reminds me I still havent got a reply back from them
09:49:28  <TrueBrain> annoying
09:50:24  <TrueBrain> nope, Docker doesn't like the '
09:50:26  <TrueBrain> lol
09:50:34  <peter1138> Is it possible to use git clone --depth to prevent it having to clone 120MB of repo every time?
09:50:37  <peter1138> Awww :(
09:50:49  <LordAro> run -e \"..\" ?
09:51:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
09:51:20  <LordAro> or maybe ${foo} or something
09:51:20  <peter1138> why would it not like that? o_O
09:51:29  <TrueBrain> LordAro: no, Docker is not even seeing the env variable
09:51:41  <TrueBrain> well, I think it made the whole thing a single env variable tbh :D
09:52:14  <peter1138> /usr/bin/docker run -e 'TARGET_BRANCH=release/1.9' < that doesn't look wrong to me. Hmm.
09:52:21  <TrueBrain> peter1138: yeah .. but honestly, they should just allow to have those shadow repositories .. what is it called ..
09:52:37  <TrueBrain> you can have a local clone
09:52:41  <TrueBrain> so it only checks out what is new
09:52:47  <TrueBrain> we used that on Jenkins etc
09:52:51  <TrueBrain> but .. AP doesn't offer that YET
09:53:14  <TrueBrain> "/usr/bin/docker run -e TARGET_BRANCH='master'"
09:53:17  <TrueBrain> okay, that is looking better
09:53:36  <TrueBrain> "##[error]error: malformed object name origin/'master'"
09:53:37  <TrueBrain> well, ALMOST
09:53:39  <TrueBrain> lolz
09:53:40  <TrueBrain> what
09:53:40  <TrueBrain> the
09:53:41  <TrueBrain> fuck
09:53:42  <TrueBrain> is
09:53:43  <TrueBrain> this
09:53:43  <TrueBrain> shit
09:53:51  <TrueBrain> @kick TrueBrain spam
09:53:51  *** TrueBrain was kicked by DorpsGek (spam)
09:54:00  <peter1138> Well!
09:54:04  *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd
09:54:12  <LordAro> i'm glad i wasn't the only one thinking it
09:54:13  <TrueBrain> I deserved that, sorry TrueBrain
09:54:59  <TrueBrain> ah, it doesn't use a shell
09:55:04  <TrueBrain> so the parameters are given as-is
09:55:19  <TrueBrain> so to resolve the variable .. I need to use quotes ... which Docker doesn't udnerstand :D Lovely!
09:55:36  <TrueBrain> so in reality it was doing docker run -e \'BLA=bla\'
09:55:41  <TrueBrain> and is now doing docker run -e BLA=\'bla\'
09:55:46  <TrueBrain> (if executed from shell)
09:56:30  <TrueBrain> to quote or not to quote, that is the question :D
09:57:42  <TrueBrain> and I kinda don't want to solve this in the Docker itself, as that feels really silly
09:57:51  <peter1138> *nod*
09:59:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
10:01:15  <peter1138> Hmm, confused by settings.
10:02:23  <nielsm>
10:02:31  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> why muck about with 'leftover'? <-- because whole countries were thrown into economic crisis when they didn't account for rounding errors
10:02:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
10:03:20  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ok, I'll write code that wastes the leftover
10:03:37  <andythenorth> and then you can send me a PR to store the remainder, using mod 8 or something
10:03:48  <peter1138> (const void*)(size_t)(def)
10:03:58  <peter1138> That is... what? o_O
10:04:19  <LordAro> nice.
10:04:27  <TrueBrain> lolz
10:05:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
10:05:07  <andythenorth> hmm, FIRS PRs o_O
10:05:14  <andythenorth> maybe I can just be the project manager?
10:05:31  <TrueBrain> lol; we won't hear the end of it if you are only the pm :P
10:05:41  <TrueBrain> <3 :)
10:05:41  <andythenorth> we don't have enough project management
10:05:45  <andythenorth> that's why nothing ever gets done
10:05:57  <TrueBrain> "self organizing groups"
10:06:07  <andythenorth> ha ha ha ha
10:06:13  <TrueBrain> :D
10:06:22  <andythenorth> it's all lolz, all of it
10:06:23  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's because the so-called "project manager" obsesses about a strange line with mod 8 that he doesn't understand
10:06:47  <Eddi|zuHause> instead of "someone probably thought a lot about this, just keep it around and stop worrying"
10:06:50  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: who is the project manager right now?
10:07:08  <TrueBrain> okay .. this code works
10:07:14  <TrueBrain> not happy with how it looks, but it does work
10:07:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: rule of thumb: if you have to ask that question, it's probably yourself :p
10:07:22  <andythenorth> I'm just going to delete the modulus, I suspect it doesn't work anyway
10:07:34  <andythenorth> and I'm not scaling 'it doesn't work' to 8 cargos
10:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause> what makes you think it doesn't work?
10:08:12  <andythenorth> it's unreadable
10:08:21  <andythenorth> so it's not clear what 'work' would mean
10:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause> how are those things related?
10:08:37  <andythenorth> if we don't know what 'correct' is, how can we know if it works?
10:08:44  <andythenorth> therefore -> doesn't work
10:08:51  <andythenorth> you may pick holes in that logic
10:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that's just because you don't know what mod does
10:09:25  <andythenorth> I know what mod does
10:09:32  <andythenorth> I don't know what the FIRS code is doing
10:09:35  <peter1138> Hmm, value clamping for uint32s is wrong as well.
10:09:42  <andythenorth> this is all a bit Popper / Berlin school
10:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause> are you sure? i'm fairly convinced i had to explain it to you multiple times in the past :p
10:10:00  <andythenorth> mod(4) is 1?
10:10:06  <andythenorth> if you have 4
10:10:22  <Eddi|zuHause> no
10:10:32  <andythenorth> mod(4) is 0?
10:10:41  <andythenorth> ok we'll go with your argument then
10:11:18  <andythenorth> so should I delete it or not?
10:11:46  <Eddi|zuHause> that looks like a perfectly fine formula to me
10:12:34  <andythenorth> yes but is it correct? o_O
10:12:44  <LordAro> @calc 4 % 4
10:12:44  <DorpsGek> LordAro: 0
10:12:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
10:13:12  <andythenorth> it seems to just be loading leftover cargo from storage, then storing it back
10:13:22  <Eddi|zuHause> difficult to say with your huge variable names
10:13:54  <andythenorth> I'll use 'a' and 'b' next time :P
10:14:26  <andythenorth> L33 loads leftover_cargo_1 from perm storage, does mod on it, then stores the result to leftover_cargo_1
10:14:44  <Eddi|zuHause> let's start at what l24 does
10:15:02  <andythenorth> 78 would be better
10:15:14  <andythenorth> why is waiting cargo being stored to leftover_cargo_1?
10:15:22  <andythenorth> these are stupid variable names
10:16:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
10:16:14  <TrueBrain> sorry for all the spam .... imagine glx's mailbox
10:17:09  <Eddi|zuHause> out of 100 emails in the past 2 months, 95 are openttd github
10:17:29  <andythenorth> oof GTG, kids football
10:17:38  <andythenorth> anyway I accept Eddi|zuHause is right
10:17:48  <andythenorth> but also I stand by my point, this code is unreadable ;P
10:17:52  <andythenorth> and needs deleted
10:17:53  <andythenorth> BIAB
10:17:54  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
10:18:00  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: 95 emails is a tuesday for me, currently
10:18:12  <LordAro> should probably unwatch the repo or something :p
10:18:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
10:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i should move them to a subfolder
10:18:36  <TrueBrain> I unwatched it a while ago :P
10:18:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and maybe mark them as auto-read
10:18:45  <TrueBrain> I am with frosch, I want a filter on certain labels :P
10:19:01  <TrueBrain> okay ... this seems to work ..
10:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i mostly react on the channel notifications, so the email notification is just noise coming in 5 minutes late
10:20:16  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't watch the channel all the time, and in those cases the email is more useful
10:20:56  <TrueBrain> I like that DorpsGek_II is giving me a feed of everything it said .. so I can look back in PR notifications there :P
10:21:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have access to that :p
10:21:39  <TrueBrain> okay, come one, work .. work ... please work ........
10:21:45  <TrueBrain> doesn't #openttd.notice also show this? I think it does
10:21:48  <TrueBrain> it should, at least
10:22:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it probably would, but i have no real use for that...
10:22:31  <TrueBrain> YES! IT WORKS
10:22:33  <TrueBrain> LordAro: mind reviewing real quick? See if I didnt do something stupid here?
10:23:28  <LordAro> TrueBrain: will do, nearly at the bottom of NRT
10:24:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7358: Add: Construction type icons to rail and road construction drop down lists.
10:26:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
10:26:18  <TrueBrain> almost forgot to document why this solution is in place ...
10:26:26  <TrueBrain> more lines of comments now than the real change :D
10:26:46  <LordAro> those are the best changes
10:27:14  <LordAro> bonus points if it's a rant about a 3rd party system or colleague
10:27:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
10:28:07  <TrueBrain> rants go in commit messages
10:28:11  <TrueBrain> comments should be factial
10:28:38  <LordAro> rants can be factual
10:29:02  <TrueBrain> We once removed a comment that said something in the lines of: # Because of our idiot colleague we have this; not because it is correct, but because he is a moron that doesn't want to listen
10:29:09  <TrueBrain> that was not really ... helping anyone to have that around :P
10:29:21  <TrueBrain> especially as he was called out by name in the same comment :D
10:29:43  <LordAro> oh, of course, that's a "what" comment, not a "why" comment :p
10:29:53  <TrueBrain> it is also a why, in this case :D
10:30:24  <LordAro> if it explains why they're an idiot, i'd look more favourably on it :p
10:30:48  <TrueBrain> because he is a moron, duh :)
10:30:51  <TrueBrain> :D
10:30:58  <LordAro> in the context of the code :p
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10:31:09  <TrueBrain> :D
10:31:25  <olivier> :)
10:31:38  <TrueBrain> do we keep the label "backport" if it is backported, or do we add another label to indicate it is, or do we remove it?
10:31:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7358: Add: Construction type icons to rail and road construction drop down lists.
10:31:44  <TrueBrain> such questions
10:31:58  <peter1138> TrueBrain, if it's done, remove it, I think.
10:32:00  <LordAro> TrueBrain: probably should be "to backport", and removed when it is
10:32:22  <peter1138> Well, actually.
10:32:23  <TrueBrain> I can understand if people want to know that it is backproted
10:32:31  <peter1138> I suppose it is easy enough to filter on "backport" and "is open"
10:32:37  <LordAro> hmm, true
10:32:45  <peter1138> So could just leave it indeed.
10:32:47  <TrueBrain> but that is the issue .. backports are not open
10:32:48  <TrueBrain> they are closed
10:33:00  <peter1138> Right but it's still a backport.
10:33:07  <LordAro> backported commit should reference the PR, right?
10:33:09  <peter1138> Oh...!
10:33:10  <peter1138> I see.
10:33:12  <peter1138> Yes.
10:33:19  <LordAro> so you'll see it in the issue
10:33:21  <TrueBrain> yeah, but you want to quickly see what we still need to backport
10:33:26  <TrueBrain> not click them ALL to see that :)
10:33:28  <peter1138> Ok, so then remove it.
10:33:52  <TrueBrain> and I can udnerstand people dont want to go through everyPR to see if we forgot to backport one
10:33:56  <TrueBrain> so keeping it can be useful :D
10:34:03  <TrueBrain> (hence my question :P)
10:34:13  <TrueBrain> "to backport" and "backported" labels?
10:36:40  <TrueBrain> lets try that for now, and see what it brings us .. removing stuff is always easier :)
10:36:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
10:36:50  <LordAro> phew.
10:36:55  <TrueBrain> \o/
10:36:57  <peter1138> I will need to update it I guess :)
10:38:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
10:38:24  <TrueBrain> with these PRs, I will miss the days of SVN .. NoAI was 40+ commits .. that was such a lovely MERGE moment :D (as it showed 40+ commit lines on IRC). Now it will be just a single entry ...
10:38:40  <Eddi|zuHause> sad.
10:39:00  <LordAro> haha
10:39:24  <LordAro> clearly you should make DorpsGek_II watch for individual commits to master :p
10:39:28  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe instead of "X merged pull request" you should list the commits added to master? :p
10:39:33  <TrueBrain> LordAro: people voted against that :(
10:39:34  <LordAro> we miss on translator updates because of that as well
10:39:53  <TrueBrain> hmm . .that is indeed true
10:39:55  <TrueBrain> that is fixable
10:40:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
10:40:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
10:40:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] TrueBrain opened issue #25: Pushes outside of PRs are not announced
10:40:50  <TrueBrain> and now I have a reminder
10:41:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
10:41:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
10:42:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
10:42:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7356: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs and pass it the…
10:43:16  <TrueBrain> tnx LordAro
10:43:19  <LordAro> TrueBrain: you get no credit :p
10:43:28  <TrueBrain> yeah, because you merged :(
10:43:28  <TrueBrain> :P
10:43:36  <LordAro> :p
10:43:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
10:45:45  <peter1138> LordAro, i'll have to see what I can do about splitting.
10:46:03  <LordAro> yeah, i can't imagine it'll be all that easy
10:46:03  <peter1138> It was done as a big lump because the original was full of fixes and merges.
10:46:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7359: Backport marked PRs to 1.9
10:46:26  <TrueBrain> this is my suggestion for backports ^^
10:47:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
10:47:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7346: Fix: rebase to 1.9 branch for backport PRs
10:48:10  <LordAro> TrueBrain: :)
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10:48:23  <TrueBrain> smart, the closes; I wanted to do that manually, but this is easier :P
10:48:28  <LordAro> ^^
10:49:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #6926: Change: Allow dock to be constructed in more locations
10:49:41  <TrueBrain> wish you could control labels like that :D
10:49:51  <LordAro> that would be very nice :)
10:51:10  <TrueBrain> there are btw bots that do backporting for you, once in a while, if there are no conflicts
10:51:12  <TrueBrain> very nice stuff
10:51:18  <TrueBrain> but ..  one step at the time :D
10:53:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
10:55:01  <TrueBrain> yippie, all green :D It works! \o/
10:55:11  <LordAro> huzzah
10:55:25  <TrueBrain> so do we want a PR per backport, or these bulk versions?
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10:56:03  <andythenorth_> phone irc :x
10:56:38  <nielsm> I suppose bulk PRs are fine at least for low-risk things
10:57:08  <TrueBrain> the no-conflict cherry-picks
10:57:09  <TrueBrain> I agree
10:57:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] michicc opened pull request #23: Add: Railtype flags for 90 degree curves.
10:58:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] PeterN approved pull request #23: Add: Railtype flags for 90 degree curves.
10:58:38  <peter1138> ^ I notice that repo doesn't require approval.
10:58:51  <TrueBrain> I mentioned that a few times already yes
10:58:55  <TrueBrain> seems nobody cares enough to fix it :)
10:59:04  <peter1138> I don't have rights to fix it :p
10:59:33  <peter1138> (I'm not asking for rights)
10:59:57  <TrueBrain> people creating these repos should also take care of these administrative things, in my opinion
11:00:08  <TrueBrain> as others cannot smell if they wanted to set it up like this or not
11:00:17  <TrueBrain> but last time I asked, I got some contradicting answers :D
11:00:21  <peter1138> Heh
11:00:41  <andythenorth_> oof
11:01:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
11:01:11  <andythenorth_> just kick the repo out of the org?
11:01:19  <TrueBrain> why?
11:01:28  <andythenorth_> if it doesn’t conform to standards?
11:01:34  <TrueBrain> we have standards?!
11:01:56  <LordAro> /kick TrueBrain standards enforcement
11:02:05  <peter1138> andythenorth_, wtf?
11:02:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] michicc merged pull request #23: Add: Railtype flags for 90 degree curves.
11:02:23  <TrueBrain> LordAro: :D
11:02:44  <TrueBrain> peter1138: I guess NML is also missing some form of CI :)
11:02:53  <peter1138> It is.
11:03:05  <TrueBrain> so yeah .. that needs a bit more attention :)
11:03:17  <andythenorth_> iirc it has CI
11:03:19  <LordAro> i think pm wanted to hook it up to ottdc jenkins
11:03:33  <andythenorth_> frosch or pm already did it
11:03:41  <TrueBrain> it is not reporting back
11:04:02  <TrueBrain> (case and point, the last PR that just came by :D)
11:04:14  <TrueBrain> but okay, I am sure they are on it :)
11:04:20  <andythenorth_> can’t be fucked to search coop on my 4” phone
11:04:50  <TrueBrain> last we talked, I believe we agreed that they would ask for help if needed, etc :) So I am sure it is in good hands, just takes time :)
11:04:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
11:05:24  <TrueBrain> I just hope someone is also taking care of OpenGFX etc :)
11:05:24  <andythenorth_> sack nml
11:05:36  <andythenorth_> edit content in game
11:05:40  <TrueBrain> owh, they are stalled on import errors :(
11:05:52  <peter1138> TrueBrain, yup, needs the hg repo to be "fixed"
11:05:59  <TrueBrain> :(
11:06:10  <TrueBrain> all imports I managed so far, failed via GitHub
11:06:14  <TrueBrain> I all did them manually in the end
11:06:17  <TrueBrain> annoys me a bit :P
11:06:18  <TrueBrain> owh well
11:06:36  <andythenorth_> 2 of mine worked, rest did not
11:07:13  <andythenorth_> also what can we delete? :p
11:07:16  <TrueBrain> <- 'backported' label is nice I guess
11:07:26  * andythenorth_ has itchy fingers for a bonfire
11:07:58  <andythenorth_> delete HEQS!!
11:08:09  <TrueBrain> andythenorth_: STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD
11:08:18  <andythenorth_> it’s piece of glass
11:08:35  <peter1138> Yeah, stop it.
11:08:44  <peter1138> Deleting stuff you are bored with is not useful.
11:08:54  <peter1138> You are not going to bugger off to simuscape or something :p
11:09:00  <TrueBrain> <- should also be backported, right?
11:09:10  <andythenorth_> delete simuscape!
11:09:58  <peter1138> TrueBrain, if 7302 made it to 1.9, yes.
11:10:02  <andythenorth_> what I really like is the stalebot
11:10:35  <peter1138> Yes it saves you from having to make a decision.
11:10:54  <peter1138> And it means people don't blame you for closing their bug.
11:11:16  <TrueBrain> yup; blaming machines always does wonders :)
11:11:34  <andythenorth_> hmm I have 20 pairs of the same type of nike trainers, in different colours. delete some of those?
11:11:59  <andythenorth_> I deleted lots of old/dead plants in my garden 2 weeks ago
11:12:04  <TrueBrain> okay, I like this .. easy to spot what needs consideration of backporting
11:13:01  <andythenorth_> hmm so NRT is shipped?
11:13:08  <andythenorth_> I should make a grf
11:13:09  <peter1138> No, I'm working on it.
11:13:13  <andythenorth_> oof
11:13:15  <andythenorth_> i
11:13:22  <peter1138> Review popped up some changes.
11:13:25  <andythenorth_> also nml :p
11:13:39  <andythenorth_> did I open a PR for nml?
11:13:40  <peter1138> Including the suggestion to split it. Splorfl.
11:13:53  <peter1138> I think 16-in-16-out is a PR?
11:13:55  <andythenorth_> sporfl is a good word
11:14:22  <andythenorth_> need to do an nml nrt pr
11:14:41  <andythenorth_> my branch is a disaster of merges probly
11:14:48  <TrueBrain> <- all PRs worth considering for backport :)
11:16:52  <andythenorth_>
11:17:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7349: Fix: Show industry name in Land Area Information window for oil-rig type stations instead of just 'Oil Rig'
11:17:12  <andythenorth_> based on an old import I did of nml
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11:18:17  <andythenorth_> so is HEQS going into Road Hog or not?
11:18:19  <TrueBrain> peter1138: did not know, removed the label immediately :P
11:18:20  <TrueBrain> tnx :)
11:22:03  <andythenorth_> hmm not bulldozers though eh
11:22:10  <andythenorth_> stupid
11:25:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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11:31:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
11:33:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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11:44:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
11:44:53  <peter1138> LOL
11:45:03  <peter1138> I was going to check the specs on that comment ^
11:45:10  <peter1138> But, uh, there are no official specs yet.
11:46:08  <nielsm> I wonder if the newgrf specs (at least what ottd understands) shouldn't be part of documentation inside the repository
11:46:15  <nielsm> instead of on an external wiki
11:47:30  <michi_cc> Back then ttdpatch had some life signs, but I guess that reason is no more.
11:48:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #7029: #6315 Rail fences in snow or desert
11:48:51  <nielsm> good, that misfeature is closed now
11:49:33  <nielsm> (it was never a bug that track in desert/snow did not have fences)
11:50:20  <nielsm> (otoh, maybe fences should not be _removed_ if the ground changes below the track, due to changing snow line, or water appearing nearby)
11:50:58  <TrueBrain> and tomorrow the issue related will be marked as stale ;)
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11:54:27  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: but what if the openttd specs and the "official" (neutral) specs diverge?
11:55:17  <nielsm> the specs in ottd repos would be the official description of what ottd supports
11:56:07  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a discussion recently about whether the grf specs should include things that are only supported in patch packs (but are stable enough)
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11:56:54  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: there are a bunch of things in the specs that openttd doesn't support
11:57:13  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: "only document what's implemented" is maybe not the best idea
11:57:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the specs are more than that.
11:57:57  <nielsm> "reserved, not supported by ottd, may cause your data to fail loading"
12:01:57  <peter1138> Yeah, the specs were of course designed by ttdpatch and we just implemented them.
12:02:04  <planetmaker> fences in snow or desert a mis-feature? Hm
12:02:32  <peter1138> Problem with documentation in the repo is... what format? And what about images? Maintain history?
12:02:44  <peter1138> It's already a pain in the bum keeping landscape*html up to date.
12:03:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7245: Remove: OPF
12:03:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7245: Remove: OPF
12:03:30  <planetmaker> re (newgrf) docs: the current tt-wiki is quite a good place - especially as it documents more than OpenTTD alone
12:03:42  <planetmaker> and it is maintained by more people than those who know git-foo
12:04:07  <peter1138> 11:48 < nielsm> good, that misfeature is closed now
12:04:09  <planetmaker> re-creating the level of detail it currently offers inside an OpenTTD repo would be a hell of a work
12:04:15  <peter1138> I also disagree that it's a misfeature.
12:04:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
12:04:27  <peter1138> I don't know about the specific implementation though.
12:04:33  <planetmaker> that looked messy
12:05:01  <peter1138> I would say, yes, don't move the docs.
12:05:05  <nielsm> desert and snow were never supposed to have fences
12:06:08  <peter1138> I don't follow that argument.
12:06:18  <peter1138> Features shouldn't be added because they weren't there originally?
12:07:20  <peter1138> I would say if it was to be added it would be newgrf-provided only :p
12:07:54  <nielsm> I'd be fine with it as a newgrf thing
12:08:10  <peter1138> I'd hope the code would be much smaller in that case :p
12:08:20  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
12:08:45  <peter1138> Um!
12:08:51  <peter1138> Ok, default setting does not work.
12:09:09  <peter1138> It made the title save load as temperate.
12:09:32  <peter1138> I guess there's a bug there :D
12:12:15  <andythenorth> nml CI
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12:14:47  <peter1138> Yay, better.
12:16:22  <peter1138> Hmm, interesting.
12:18:29  <peter1138> Setting vehicle.max_trains (0 < 6400 < 5000) -> new 500
12:18:37  <peter1138> Old code would've clamped that to 5000.
12:18:46  <peter1138> New code sets it to the default 500.
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12:21:22  <peter1138> I just remembered, the framerate regression made it to 1.9 :(
12:21:48  <LordAro> framerate regression?
12:21:49  <peter1138> The one where lots of vehicles causes the performanceaccumulator to use up a good chunk of CPU itself
12:22:09  <peter1138>
12:22:22  <LordAro> could be backported?
12:22:40  <peter1138> Could be. Has been reported to cause slowdowns on systems where accumulator is not slow.
12:23:00  <peter1138> I'm not sure why it would be slow or not slow on some systems.
12:23:27  <peter1138> 'Problem' is it changes the order of vehicle processing.
12:23:37  <peter1138> Dunno if that's actually an issue.
12:32:09  <peter1138> Interesting settings get loaded just by clicking on the name in the load game list.
12:34:53  <andythenorth> can we store a table of industry closures?
12:34:58  <andythenorth> newgrf accessible?
12:35:10  <peter1138> Oh. My newgame settings got changed. This is suboptimal :/
12:35:29  <peter1138> andythenorth, sounds like a gamescript thing ;)
12:36:03  <Alberth> it would be if game scripts could actually control opening and closing of industries, imho
12:36:42  <andythenorth> the standard answer is "newgrf can't have a global view, use GS"
12:36:48  <andythenorth> and when anyone asks "how?"
12:36:59  <andythenorth> the standard answer is "GS can't know anything about newgrf industry, nor control it"
12:36:59  <peter1138> I was, of course, being facetious.
12:37:25  <andythenorth> it came up because I've disabled FIRS closure handling temporarily to get 16-cargos working
12:37:34  <andythenorth> and can I be arsed to restore it later? :P
12:37:43  <peter1138> I'm not sure what such a system would look like.
12:37:49  <peter1138> (table of industry closures)
12:37:55  <andythenorth> table of industries closes, with type and date
12:38:10  <peter1138> Yeah but how would you look at that from newgrf?
12:38:22  <andythenorth> *and* it tracks industries marked for closure so far this month
12:38:30  <andythenorth> you look at it from monthly and random cb
12:38:33  <andythenorth> I'll find the numbers
12:38:54  <peter1138> You can't easily do loops can you?
12:39:03  <peter1138> Or at all?
12:39:17  <andythenorth> 29 and friends
12:39:39  <andythenorth> just give it a var to query the table, with some useful bitmasked info
12:39:50  <andythenorth> maybe pass an industry ID
12:40:08  <peter1138> Urgh, regression testing.
12:40:28  <andythenorth> returns last date of closure for that ID
12:40:37  <andythenorth> maybe a stack so you can walk down the closures, picking off 'next'
12:40:55  <andythenorth> might still be crap, dunno
12:41:02  <andythenorth> maybe we should just fix OpenTTD
12:41:35  <peter1138> pass an industry ID how?
12:41:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7359: Backport marked PRs to 1.9
12:42:10  * andythenorth looks up the industry map count var
12:42:25  <andythenorth> similar to var 67
12:42:59  <andythenorth> it was a random idea, might be better to decide what's wrong with closures first :P
12:43:12  <andythenorth> frosch always says to let newgrf spec ripen a bit before changing
12:43:27  <andythenorth> I don't get attached to specific ideas
12:43:33  <andythenorth> except depot-flip for liveries :(
12:43:45  <andythenorth> maybe I should learn C++ and code that
12:44:19  <peter1138> Setting difficulty.max_loan changed from 100000 < 2000000000 < 500000 to 300000
12:44:31  <peter1138> So regression test save has a very weird max_load setting.
12:44:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7359: Backport marked PRs to 1.9
12:44:59  <peter1138> In master it gets clamped to 500000, in my branch it gets reset to the default 300000...
12:45:01  <TrueBrain> doesnt close PRs :o
12:45:13  <peter1138> Aw :(
12:45:13  <LordAro> :o
12:45:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7342: Backport #7338
12:45:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7342: Backport #7338
12:45:28  <peter1138> Also that was a bloody strong gust of wind.
12:45:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7343: Backport #7327
12:45:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7343: Backport #7327
12:45:35  <peter1138> I should check my fence is still standing.
12:45:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7344: Backport 7335
12:45:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #7344: Backport 7335
12:45:45  <TrueBrain> manual labor :(
12:50:10  <peter1138> Hmm, weird, prices are different too.
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12:56:49  <andythenorth> I wish my templater could unpack vars in a loop like python can :P
12:57:25  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe it should clamp unless it's a SGF_MULTISTRING.
12:57:39  <peter1138> But that's fairly arbitrary.
12:58:29  <andythenorth> will this 30W USB-C charger work with my 65W laptop? :P
13:02:19  <Alberth> I could add something loopy to py-xpd
13:03:07  <Alberth> also, the git-tag thing is broken, I need to fix that
13:03:19  <andythenorth> TrueBrain had opinions on git rev
13:03:28  <Alberth> oh?
13:03:46  <TrueBrain> oh?
13:03:55  <andythenorth> don't make me go to the logs :(
13:04:01  <TrueBrain> I only asked what version you wanted to give your FIRS
13:04:08  <andythenorth> the best version!
13:04:11  <andythenorth> gold
13:04:12  <TrueBrain> either 'git describe --tags' or 'git rev-list HEAD --count'
13:04:19  <TrueBrain> one is based on tag, commit since tags, etc
13:04:25  <TrueBrain> the other the amount of commits EVER in that branch
13:04:26  * andythenorth seriously considers writing a table of colours, and using those
13:04:39  <andythenorth> FIRS Green
13:04:52  <TrueBrain> where I can understand that the latter helps in NewGRF versioning when uploading to BaNaNaS (as it is ever increasing)
13:05:05  <Alberth> I  picked tags, currently, more stable if you mess with commits and branches
13:05:15  <andythenorth> I wonder if we could end run this
13:05:16  <TrueBrain> that only works if you dont want a single integer :)
13:05:26  <andythenorth> why does OpenTTD compatibility need to be a number, incrementing?
13:05:38  <peter1138> It doesn't.
13:05:38  <Alberth> major << x | minor << y | build << z
13:05:47  <peter1138> JGR has a feature-test system, instead.
13:05:53  <TrueBrain> that only works if tags are semvers :D (but fair assumption)
13:06:23  <Alberth> currently single numbers are semvers
13:06:31  <andythenorth> we don't allow changing newgrfs on savegames anyway, right?
13:06:37  <andythenorth> so what's this feature even for?
13:06:52  * andythenorth just checking we don't gold plate a nothing feature :)
13:07:00  <Alberth> compatibility, you get a save game with a grf you don't have the right version
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13:08:01  <Alberth> hai hai
13:08:54  <Alberth> otherwise you'd have to define compatibility over multi-number versions
13:09:01  <Alberth> or drop it, probably
13:10:30  <andythenorth> so bumping the action 14 is a manual action anyway
13:10:31  <andythenorth> it has to be
13:10:45  <andythenorth> and there are two reasons to want a rev from the repo
13:10:50  <peter1138> Should I scrap my nrt changes and try from the original branch again?
13:11:12  <andythenorth> 1. quick way to automatically get a value for action 14 to compare
13:11:12  <peter1138> I'm going with no here :p
13:11:25  <andythenorth> 2. get a rev for use in filename, directory listing etc
13:11:31  <peter1138> So many merges ;(
13:11:54  <andythenorth> nobody sent me the rebase memo, it's banned at work
13:12:06  <andythenorth> and Wolf uses a windows gui client for git that merges automatically
13:12:09  <andythenorth> 'soz'
13:12:23  <andythenorth> still, at least we got progress towards just using git, eh?
13:12:46  <peter1138> I'm just trying to look at history to find out why something is changed.
13:12:51  <andythenorth> history is horrid
13:12:54  <andythenorth> for that branch
13:13:09  <peter1138> Exactly.
13:13:16  <andythenorth> ok so I could just manually bump a rev for action 14
13:13:47  <andythenorth> it won't increment for push builds, but does that matter?
13:19:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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13:25:10  <Alberth> as long as you can distinguish dev-builds from release-builds, not really imho
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13:27:24  <TrueBrain> <- bah, it still is not completely working
13:27:30  <andythenorth> in most cases I can think of for (2), there should be a timestamp available
13:27:31  <TrueBrain> commits in release/1.9 are being rejected ..
13:27:35  <TrueBrain> it should not run the commit-checker :D
13:27:41  <andythenorth> e.g. push build listings etc should have a build date
13:27:50  <andythenorth> filesystem files should have date metadata
13:28:00  <andythenorth> no need to sort based on revs
13:28:43  <andythenorth> oof Alberth I have to confess I still haven't tried your module :)
13:28:56  <andythenorth> let's do it now
13:28:57  <peter1138> "Service helicopters at helipads automatically"
13:29:06  <peter1138> Hmm... I thought that got removed.
13:29:15  <glx> seems the condition doesn't work
13:29:25  <Alberth> tried to fix the next-dev thing, but realized it interferes with release numbers :(
13:29:46  <andythenorth> how did I solve this at work?
13:29:48  * andythenorth looks
13:30:14  <Alberth> time-stamp would be the useful thing, but how to squeeze that into a 32 bit number?
13:30:14  <andythenorth> yeah, untagged versions are named as 'last tag + hash'
13:30:20  <andythenorth> so just git describe basically
13:30:23  <andythenorth> e.g. 3.5.7-148-g0daa8a1c
13:30:27  <Alberth> yep
13:30:31  <TrueBrain> glx: indeed, that doesn't work; neither for master
13:30:32  <TrueBrain> SO CLOSE :)
13:30:50  <andythenorth> hmm
13:30:52  <glx> that was not testable while in PR
13:30:58  <nielsm>  peter1138: I think we just agreed to pretend that "service at helipad" setting is always off
13:31:02  <Alberth> very unstable if you squash commits
13:31:19  <Alberth> which may happen in dev builds
13:31:32  <andythenorth> if used like this, the hash is just there to disambiguate between builds imho
13:31:40  <TrueBrain> glx: ah, the 'tag' is not resolved when the template is resolved
13:31:43  <peter1138> var      = order.serviceathelipad
13:31:44  <peter1138> def      = true
13:31:45  <peter1138> :/
13:31:47  <TrueBrain> the Tag parameter is $(Build.JobName)
13:31:49  <TrueBrain> not 'commit-checker'
13:31:50  <TrueBrain> :)
13:31:51  <andythenorth> occasionally e.g. openttd gets confused about which of the many FIRS to load
13:31:58  <glx> at least the fallback to master works
13:32:04  <andythenorth> so I check the rev in newgrf at that point if changes aren't showing
13:32:34  <andythenorth> but for normal use, the annotated semver tag would seem to be reliable enough
13:32:49  <andythenorth> maybe action 14 could just use the semver tags also
13:32:54  <peter1138> version = `date +%s`
13:32:54  <andythenorth> and the newgrf version in game
13:33:10  <Alberth> I have arrived at just using style numbers, with the last number: 0=release, >0=dev build
13:34:17  <Alberth> peter: yep, would be so nice if openttd and newgrf could handle such strings as version number
13:34:22  <planetmaker> <andythenorth> so what's this feature even for? <-- so that OpenTTD offers you the latest and greatest of a single NewGRF in the selection dialogue - unless you specificially enabled "newgrf_show_old_versions"
13:34:36  <andythenorth> this always seemed a bit weird to me
13:34:46  <andythenorth> at least for annotated semver tags
13:35:06  <planetmaker> offer from the files you have on your local HDD
13:35:13  <andythenorth> Alberth: so x.y.z.a
13:35:40  <Alberth> yeah, or x.y.a  probably, if you want just 2 values for a release
13:36:16  <andythenorth> but then there's this case :(
13:36:23  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: so you suggest we track in BaNaNaS which version is newer, and use that instead? :P
13:36:36  <andythenorth> yes!
13:36:37  <andythenorth> no!
13:36:38  <andythenorth> I don't know
13:36:46  <andythenorth> but why have two versioning systems?
13:36:48  <Alberth> so you may want x.a ?
13:36:52  <andythenorth> I never did understand why we have two
13:37:12  <planetmaker> for newgrfs there only ever was one
13:37:26  <planetmaker> but.. not newgrf version of openttd
13:37:27  <andythenorth> not in my newgrds
13:37:27  <planetmaker> :|
13:37:35  <TrueBrain> andythenorth because someone once considered NewGRFs the center of the world? :D
13:37:41  <andythenorth> my newgrfs have had two versions since the action 14 was added?
13:37:48  <andythenorth> I never understood why
13:37:52  <planetmaker> that was you (and many other authors) who introduced on their own their own versioning scheme with more than one number
13:37:52  <andythenorth> I just cargo cult it around
13:38:06  <planetmaker> that many others include me, too, ofc
13:38:11  <andythenorth> yes, we were told to use semver!
13:38:15  <andythenorth> semver is the future! etc
13:38:20  <andythenorth> and then this other system too
13:38:25  <andythenorth> :D
13:38:38  <andythenorth> semver is weird anyway
13:38:40  <planetmaker> it's just what we tell users. But... so... just use x.y.z --> xyz
13:38:41  <planetmaker> done
13:38:52  <planetmaker> simple mapping. pad a few 0s in between. Nice
13:38:59  <andythenorth> dump semver?
13:39:27  <planetmaker> I wouldn't
13:39:34  <Alberth> would work, but makes discussing compatibility more complicated
13:39:45  <Alberth> no more firs3 or 3.2
13:40:03  <Alberth> or 3.2.1 which is compatible with 3.2 etc
13:40:08  <andythenorth> yeah
13:40:13  <andythenorth> it doesn't work like that though
13:40:13  <planetmaker> 3.2.1 -> 30201
13:40:16  <Alberth> you get 21, 35, 42
13:40:24  <andythenorth> no guaranteee that 3.2.2 is compatible with 3.2.1
13:40:30  <andythenorth> or 3.4 compatible with 3.3
13:40:49  <planetmaker> That is always the newgrf author's fault
13:41:00  <Alberth> planetmaker: does that increment if version numbers > 9??
13:41:35  <planetmaker> Alberth, there's a failure point, if a semver goes >9 or >99 (whether you pad with 0s or not)
13:41:43  <Alberth> 1.10 -> 1010,  2.0 -> 200
13:42:06  <planetmaker> that's why I rather suggest 1.9.0 -> 10900 and not 190
13:42:20  <Alberth> seems nice
13:42:54  <Alberth> easy to understand
13:43:16  <planetmaker> problem remaining: versions for nightly builds
13:43:27  <planetmaker> that is actually where it really matters most
13:43:39  <planetmaker> so maybe add another 2 or 3 trailing digits for the nightly rev
13:43:50  <planetmaker> which counts commits since last tag or so
13:43:57  <planetmaker> just linear counting
13:44:04  <andythenorth> according to semver, FIRS should be on about version 350
13:44:13  <andythenorth> 350.0.0
13:44:24  <TrueBrain> stop breaking things :P
13:44:28  <andythenorth> strictly applying semver to newgrf just makes no sense
13:44:34  <andythenorth> semver is a bit of a turkey anyway
13:45:15  <TrueBrain> strict semver is only useful for APIs and libraries (which is also an API :P)
13:45:21  <andythenorth> yes
13:45:38  <andythenorth> applying them to content (savegames) is weird
13:45:49  <TrueBrain> just redefine it a bit :)
13:45:50  <peter1138> planetmaker, do we want to require approvals for things like nml repo?
13:46:04  <planetmaker> peter1138, you mean for PRs?
13:46:07  <peter1138> Yea
13:46:51  <planetmaker> generally I'd say yes. But grant direct commit rights to some? I'd not want automatic PR integration from <random folks>
13:47:16  <peter1138> Pretty sure PR integretion is never from random folk
13:47:20  <Alberth> 32bit, so 9 digits available
13:47:23  <planetmaker> Doesn't hurt me, if I make a PR and accept my own :P
13:47:52  <planetmaker> Alberth, yes... so like 1.9.0-dev234 would be like 109000234
13:48:05  <peter1138> Just depends if we want to run it like openttd-git or openttd-svn
13:48:07  <planetmaker> which is actually similar to the NewGRF version OpenTTD's NewGRF API offers
13:48:37  <planetmaker> peter1138, I prefer to keep workflows similar. Less friction IMHO
13:48:45  <Alberth> I wonder if major would need > 9
13:49:05  <planetmaker> Alberth, for NewGRF: yes. thinking of andy :P
13:49:20  <andythenorth> no
13:49:30  <Alberth> he has firs 3 now :)
13:49:31  <andythenorth> when it gets to 9, just declare it awful, and start a new project
13:49:43  <planetmaker> av9
13:49:47  <andythenorth> FISH is on about version 9, but I restarted it 3 times
13:49:49  <Alberth> 1.9.0-dev234 would be 010900234 btw
13:49:54  <andythenorth> av9 is a gag on av8 :D
13:50:20  <andythenorth> how do we derive the dev version?  From git rev count?
13:50:22  <planetmaker> yes... but leading 0s are easily optimized away... as long as there's still bit-space to add, when they become needed
13:50:32  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I'd say 'yes'
13:50:39  <Alberth> that gives you one more digit for development builds
13:50:54  <andythenorth> so 4.0.0 is just 4000000
13:50:59  <planetmaker> 9999 dev builds between two releases should suffice, should it?
13:51:09  <planetmaker> if not... you're doing it wrong [TM]
13:51:21  <peter1138> andythenorth does a lot of that ;)
13:51:27  <andythenorth> oof :(
13:51:35  <planetmaker> 4.0.0 -> 400000000
13:51:37  <peter1138> You keep saying so!
13:51:42  <andythenorth> progress requires certain amounts of destruction
13:51:51  <planetmaker> you say that a lot, too :P
13:51:52  <Alberth> 4 00 00 0000    lots of zeroes :)
13:52:06  <andythenorth> so how would it handle alpha, beta, RC releases?
13:52:09  <planetmaker> it's not so much for human digestion. Yet still to understand
13:52:24  <Alberth> but perhaps project-decided, rev count or tags
13:52:59  <andythenorth> shall we make action 14 understand dev versions?
13:52:59  <andythenorth> :P
13:53:03  <Alberth> alpha: dev > 8000, beta: dev > 9000, RC: dev > 9900
13:53:30  <planetmaker> alpha... isn't that rather dev >= 0?
13:54:05  <andythenorth> what if we design this from Bananas POV instead of newgrf author? o_O
13:54:13  <Alberth> in my mind it's a pre-release, not some random development version, but it's a project decision probably
13:54:16  <andythenorth> we need a way to distribute nightly / alpha / beta / RC
13:56:07  <planetmaker> ok, I always considered alphas random dev versions while betas were already something to test for very eager people
13:56:55  <planetmaker> anyway, that's complete side-tracking
13:57:30  <planetmaker> andythenorth, how would bananas POV differ from newgrf author? (bananas has not POV. Maybe users have :P )
13:57:38  <planetmaker> (which users?)
13:58:01  <andythenorth> well
13:58:25  <andythenorth> the users I have in mind are developers, or other people who might turn on 'show unreleased content' for bananas
13:58:38  <andythenorth> specifically it would help with bug reports, and with developing newgrf spec
13:59:35  <planetmaker> so... like ... openttd offers 'nightly', 'testing' and 'stable' branches for download?
13:59:44  <andythenorth> maybe frosch123 solved all this already in bananas2? o_O
13:59:47  <planetmaker> on steam you can specifically opt-in to dev versions of programmes
13:59:56  <planetmaker> s/dev/beta/g
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14:02:49  <peter1138>
14:02:58  <peter1138> How does one reply to that without being sarcastic as heck?
14:03:16  <planetmaker> peter1138, by replying not at all
14:03:21  <peter1138> Quite.
14:04:01  <TrueBrain> lol; okay, that was entertaining :)
14:04:29  <TrueBrain> why listen to advise you get .. it is easier to ignore :D
14:05:07  <planetmaker> though... just found a possible answer :P
14:05:55  <planetmaker> I think his problem might be differently than he thinks
14:08:00  <andythenorth> I always get spanked by openttd.cfg
14:08:09  <andythenorth> I often have 3 or 4 OpenTTDs open
14:10:54  <Alberth> I make copies of openttd.cfg in each bin directory, and link downloaded content directoy to the ~/.openttd/content_download   so it's shared
14:11:43  <TrueBrain> glx: sorry for commenting on things that were already there .. :D
14:12:04  <planetmaker> <Alberth> I make copies of openttd.cfg in each bin directory, and link downloaded content directoy to the ~/.openttd/content_download   so it's shared <-- so do I. Especially on the servers
14:12:38  <planetmaker> locally... the content_download and cfg in ~/.openttd is shared anyway when nothing local is present
14:12:46  <Alberth> in the file name, we could indeed replace "dev" by "alpha/beta/rc"-ish
14:14:00  <Alberth> without the link, it doesn't find downloaded content iirc, or it doesn't put it there or so, was a long time ago
14:14:01  <glx> TrueBrain: :)
14:14:48  <glx> TrueBrain:
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14:15:07  <glx> or should we wait the next backport batch ?
14:15:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
14:15:30  <TrueBrain> nah, fix it asap :)
14:15:34  <TrueBrain> but that is one hard to read statement :P
14:15:45  <TrueBrain> double spaces before or()
14:16:16  <planetmaker> indeed, Alberth . but what about the newgrf version?
14:16:22  <TrueBrain> glx: please add a comment what it is doing :) But yeah, looks fine to me
14:16:24  <planetmaker> just count it up normally?
14:16:35  <planetmaker> in the scheme as discussed above?
14:16:47  <Alberth> as we discussed, 9 digit number?
14:16:54  <planetmaker> ^^
14:17:37  <andythenorth> nielsm: to confirm the produce syntax here   "TOYS: LOAD_PERM(4)" could equally well be temp register, or a var?
14:17:55  <planetmaker> it's a bit difficult as 1.9.0 -> 10900 0000 < 10900 0234 = 1.9.0-betaX
14:17:59  <Alberth> likely with some guide for numbering alphas, betas, and rcs
14:18:36  <Alberth> hmm, good point
14:18:39  <andythenorth> bake semver parsing into action 14 :P
14:18:40  <nielsm> andythenorth: probably yes, if you put an expression that isn't a pure load from a single register, nmlc generates an whatever intermediate varaction2s required to put that into a temp register
14:19:29  <Alberth> release has 9999 as dev number?
14:19:38  <Alberth> looks very weird though
14:19:55  <planetmaker> basically that's what openttd did, though. adding a 'released' bit
14:20:25  <planetmaker> so that the announced newgrf version of releases was always bigger than dev versions
14:20:32  <Alberth> yep
14:20:59  <andythenorth> oof YAGNI strikes FIRS
14:21:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7360: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs
14:21:38  <Alberth> but newgrfversion is not used in filenames etc, so should be fine?
14:21:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7360: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs
14:22:07  <Alberth> except it should bark for dev9999
14:22:58  <planetmaker> hm, yes
14:23:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7360: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs
14:23:29  <Alberth> other option is to do development against the current release, and increment major, minor, of sub-minor on release
14:23:31  <planetmaker> hm... though...
14:23:40  <planetmaker> what happens between 1.9.0-beta1 and 1.9.0-beta2?
14:23:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #7360: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs
14:23:46  <planetmaker> how treat those?
14:23:58  <planetmaker> and -rc1 ... rc3?
14:24:11  <planetmaker> it's all 1.9.0-dev9999 then. drat
14:24:15  <Alberth> what can happen between beta1 and beta2?
14:24:22  <planetmaker> just a few additional commits
14:25:22  <Alberth> number is still the dev number, so I would suggest you have beta9100, beta9200  etc
14:25:31  <andythenorth> recent Iron Horse alphas have been dramatically game breaking
14:25:42  <planetmaker> ah. sorry, yes, got myself confused
14:25:56  <Alberth> unless +9000 is implied by "beta"
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14:26:56  <andythenorth> at least 9000 :P
14:27:29  <Alberth> start at 9990  for extra challenge :p
14:27:36  <planetmaker> :D
14:27:52  * andythenorth ponders arithmetic
14:28:01  <TrueBrain> glx: we are already 95 commits in cmake branch :P
14:28:06  <TrueBrain> rebasing is annoying :D
14:28:16  <glx> hehe
14:28:27  <glx> and I added a lot in PRs
14:30:35  <peter1138> Hmm
14:31:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
14:34:21  <TrueBrain> glx: I will be pushing a rebase soon; I have not really tested it that well, so possibly things somewhat break. This is also a force push that I will be doing for it
14:34:46  <glx> I have no pending stuff locally so it should be ok :)
14:35:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
14:35:22  <TrueBrain> lets see how much I broke :P
14:35:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7360: Fix: [AzurePipelines] run commit checker only for PRs
14:35:33  <glx> and now the real test :)
14:36:36  <TrueBrain> over time, we should look into skipping it completely, I think
14:36:42  <TrueBrain> this is a silly waste of CPU time :P
14:36:44  <TrueBrain> but .. not that important
14:37:06  <TrueBrain> glx: gratz!
14:37:10  <glx> finally
14:39:11  <andythenorth> not sure why FIRS mucks about tracking boost from each cargo
14:39:21  <andythenorth> 8 coal = 2 steel
14:39:26  <andythenorth> 8 iron = 2 steel
14:39:48  <andythenorth> 8 coal = 4 steel if iron also delivered
14:39:56  <andythenorth> 8 iron = 4 steel if coal also delivered
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14:40:15  <andythenorth> the idea works great, the FIRS code for it is weird
14:41:14  <andythenorth> LOAD_TEMP(${var_received_timely_2}) * ${industry.get_boost(2,1,economy)}
14:41:16  <andythenorth> how odd
14:41:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
14:44:15  <TrueBrain> "*** First line of message must match: '<keyword>( #<issue>| <commit>(, (<keyword> #<issue>|<commit>))*)?: ([<section])? <Details>'" <- doesnt mention WHICH commit failed :D
14:44:17  <TrueBrain> in 95 commits ....
14:45:46  <TrueBrain> hmm, none appear to be wrong
14:45:46  <TrueBrain> :(
14:45:47  <TrueBrain> pure hate
14:46:11  * andythenorth sends TB flowers
14:46:20  <TrueBrain> and a small violin?
14:46:27  <andythenorth> maybe
14:46:48  <andythenorth> I had a nice time talking to someone in Blitz yesterday
14:46:54  <andythenorth> he killed me, so I said 'Lol'
14:47:02  <andythenorth> then he spent ages DMing me 'cry cry'
14:47:22  <andythenorth> then he said 'I know how to deal with trolls like you sending me messages'
14:47:32  <andythenorth> but he started the conversation in DM :(
14:47:35  <andythenorth> cool story eh?
14:47:55  <andythenorth> Blitz is an idiot magnet, unless all MMOG are this way?
14:48:08  <TrueBrain> you should have been there :P
14:48:40  <andythenorth> so bananas 2 then?
14:49:51  <peter1138> I'm done with NRT.
14:50:22  <peter1138> I don't have the will-power to think about splitting it up.
14:51:06  <peter1138> Maybe the language changes
15:00:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
15:00:30  <andythenorth> eh the original PR twice said 'one big block'
15:01:05  <peter1138> Yes.
15:01:48  <peter1138> +4313-1017 ]:(
15:01:58  <peter1138> That is pretty huge
15:04:03  <peter1138> Hmm, strange. I've just found a load more comments from LordAro that github didn't show me before o_O
15:04:25  <LordAro> was it the "show hidden conversations" button?
15:04:36  <peter1138> Nope.
15:04:51  <glx> TrueBrain: I think one of my latest commits had an incorrect message
15:05:36  <glx> TrueBrain: indeed the one before the rebase
15:05:48  <TrueBrain> capitals .. lol
15:05:51  <glx> CodeChange should be Codechange
15:07:02  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I hope I did not remove any of yours commits glx
15:07:03  <TrueBrain> not sure
15:07:07  <TrueBrain> (in the earlier rebase)
15:07:50  <TrueBrain> can you check your local copy?
15:08:07  <andythenorth> sometimes nml wants string literals, and sometimes not :P
15:08:15  <andythenorth> "IORE" and IORE
15:08:58  <nielsm> needs lisp/ruby style symbol quoting
15:09:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
15:09:54  <TrueBrain> fixes the commit message error :P
15:10:14  <TrueBrain> okay .. I think all the commits are still in there, but please check glx if you can :)
15:10:14  <TrueBrain> tnx
15:10:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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15:15:16  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> "IORE" and IORE <-- the difference there is when it needs the label, or the position in the CTT
15:15:32  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it will also be different in NFO
15:15:33  <andythenorth> thanks
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15:23:12  <glx> TrueBrain: no missing commits it seems
15:23:35  <TrueBrain> cool, tnx
15:23:52  <glx> but rebasing my branches will be fun
15:24:19  <glx> I get conflicts in the very old commits
15:24:32  <TrueBrain> shouldnt, really
15:24:38  <TrueBrain> as the work you are based on is unchanged
15:25:12  <glx> probably the way I'm rebasing is wrong
15:25:15  <TrueBrain> otherwise cherry-pick your work on top of cmake branch
15:30:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
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15:31:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
15:31:38  <peter1138> Now I'm done, unless there are more hidden comments :p
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15:42:45  <andythenorth> nielsm: so I've now got this generating
15:42:55  <andythenorth> compiles, haven't tested it actually works yet
15:43:07  <andythenorth> merge 16-cargo PR? :P
15:43:15  <peter1138> Is it rude to take someone's commits in another... branch... and make a PR of them?
15:43:46  <planetmaker> a matter of personal perspective. Attribute it and it's legally fine ;)
15:44:48  <peter1138> Mmm.
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15:44:56  <michi_cc> If you pick them properly (i.e. let git keep author information), why not?
15:45:15  <peter1138> I did have to edit it quite a lot as well, heh.
15:45:17  <michi_cc> After all, they where published under GPL.
15:45:36  <peter1138> I kept the author, but actually it's kinda not in places. heh.
15:47:30  <michi_cc> I've done more than one "(inspired by/based on patch from XXX)" svn commit and nobody complained.
15:48:03  <michi_cc> Which "inspired" meant original patch was utter crap and "based on" meant at least one line survived :p
15:52:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7361: Change: Use default value for invalid settings instead of clamping to min or max value.
15:54:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
15:56:28  <peter1138> You know, now that I'm getting to write the PR description, I can't see the point of it :p
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15:58:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7362: Feature: Reverse train at waypoint orders (jgr)
15:58:44  <peter1138> We'll see :p
15:59:07  <glx> hmm doesn't #7361 breaks settings change in GUI, or console ?
15:59:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
15:59:57  <andythenorth> reverse train at waypoint is quite lolz :)
16:00:08  <andythenorth> tempted to find an arbitrary pointless use for that :)
16:00:16  <peter1138> andythenorth, it is.
16:00:26  <andythenorth> I was going to say just use a balloon track
16:00:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it would be useful for shunting :p
16:00:33  <peter1138> it's like trying to do shunting or something.
16:00:36  <peter1138> But...
16:00:36  <andythenorth> but could make switchbacks go up hills
16:00:45  <andythenorth> without risking pathfinder confusion
16:01:02  <peter1138> glx, I don't think so?
16:01:03  <andythenorth> we need more stuff that's lolz
16:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i once had a track layout with a waypoint in a siding to reverse
16:01:12  <andythenorth> and less stuff that's making model trains
16:01:18  <andythenorth> I have model trains in the loft already
16:01:21  <peter1138> glx, it definitely breaks some things.
16:01:39  <andythenorth> also, one of the best things to do with model trains is crash them :P
16:01:55  <peter1138> andythenorth, i think reversing at waypoints is a model-trains feature, tbh.
16:01:57  <TrueBrain> glx: can you check if #7363 works on MingW and MSVC, and that project file generation results in the same after that PR? (some things I cannot test here, because I have a space in my folder .....)
16:02:06  <andythenorth> probably
16:02:10  <planetmaker> I sometimes wonder whether we should sketch-up a design for OpenTTD 2.0 which removes LOTS of old cruft, maybe all. And with a clean design of APIs etc
16:02:14  <andythenorth> how about more lols?
16:02:31  <planetmaker> sure, taking time to design it. But then actually taking the parts we need and filling in those we don't like
16:02:32  <Eddi|zuHause> #7361 might solve an issue i had once (or maybe that was solved meanwhile), where i had an invalid textual setting in the .cfg, and it would init to 0 instead of default
16:03:10  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the idea always appeals
16:03:18  <andythenorth> do big rewrites succeed though?
16:03:27  <planetmaker> rarely
16:03:30  <andythenorth> or do they get stuck in spec war hell? o_O
16:03:36  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but what is openttd if it's not backwards compatible with original TTD?
16:03:53  <peter1138> Clean design of API? Which API?
16:04:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
16:04:02  <planetmaker> newgrfs? game scripts, ai
16:04:09  <planetmaker> admin
16:04:17  <peter1138> Yeah...
16:04:18  <TrueBrain> glx: oops, I should try tings myself before I ask; lalala :D (it works now on Linux :P)
16:04:28  <glx> lol
16:05:38  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, I think the issue there is if you don't change the setting, it'll leave it as the invalid setting for next time.
16:05:55  <andythenorth> newgrf 2.0
16:06:00  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that's part of the issue, but not the actual problem
16:06:28  <peter1138> Changing NewGRF... not really feasible.
16:06:47  <peter1138> You'd either reimplement what we've got, or make pretty much every existing addon not work.
16:06:49  <planetmaker> need not be... entirely
16:07:06  <planetmaker> yes, you'd do that. I know
16:07:23  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: throwing away two decades of community work is hardly a good idea
16:07:29  <peter1138> And I'm sorry if the resolver design is bad, it was developed in our pre-C++ days.
16:07:48  <TrueBrain> we once started to rewrite every file, to be more sane .. it never went anywhere :P
16:07:59  <peter1138> Map Accessors!
16:08:02  <peter1138> Wait, that one was a success.
16:08:06  <TrueBrain> turns out that rewriting for rewriting was a terrible idea :(
16:08:16  <planetmaker> point is, we NEVER deprecate anything. And that is adding up. More and more. Making any progress exponentially more difficult
16:08:25  <TrueBrain> we about to remove OPF! :D
16:08:32  <peter1138> Progress on what though?
16:08:44  <peter1138> Progress is more about developer interest.
16:09:51  <peter1138> Also, savegame compatibility.
16:10:40  <peter1138> And I still think of AI/GS as a new API :p
16:10:52  <planetmaker> 9 years, yes
16:10:54  <peter1138> It's still missing things that authors want.
16:11:03  <andythenorth> newgrf 7.9
16:11:03  <andythenorth> newgrf 9000!
16:11:03  <andythenorth> ouch, I always forget how to view perm storage in newgrf debug window
16:11:07  <planetmaker> And NewGRFs became a giant mess
16:11:15  <peter1138> But for some reason authors never seem to be able to specify what they want to be able to beyond "can't do that"
16:11:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #15: Industries: support 16 cargos in / 16 cargos out
16:11:52  <peter1138> Ad-hoc extenions, yes.
16:11:55  <andythenorth> nielsm: ^ that _might_ be a FIRS bug, but I'm inclined to say it's nml initially
16:13:00  <peter1138> I'm willing to take NewGRF being "a giant mess" and keep 15 years of addons.
16:13:23  <andythenorth> the mess doesn't bother me, just the PITA of working with newgrf to extend it
16:13:33  <andythenorth> I kinda like the mess
16:13:51  <peter1138> I don't really understand.
16:14:26  <andythenorth> the mess?
16:14:27  <peter1138> NewGRF gives us a defined, if sightly odd, way of doing things.
16:14:27  <andythenorth> :P
16:14:46  <peter1138> There's a few bits of cruft due to backwards compatability.
16:14:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see what big feature is blocked that needs "throw away the current newgrf spec and make a new one"
16:14:58  <peter1138> Like CB36 duplicating some earlier callbacks.
16:15:03  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, exactly.
16:15:13  <andythenorth> hmm
16:15:40  <andythenorth> I kind of enjoy most of it, it's like a building that's evolved
16:15:47  <andythenorth> but then sometimes you look in the cellar
16:15:48  <andythenorth>
16:15:50  <Eddi|zuHause> keeping old stuff around CAN block new development, but it doesn automatically have to.
16:15:53  <andythenorth> and there are many spiders
16:16:09  <andythenorth>
16:16:17  <peter1138> vehicle refitting is pretty simple if you don't try to abuse it for livery-bullshit.
16:16:47  <andythenorth> no really, it's not, because cargo units
16:16:50  <andythenorth> but eh
16:16:56  <andythenorth> the problem with killing spiders is
16:16:58  <andythenorth> ECAwQFBgf/xAAwEQACAgEDAgMIAgMAAwAAAAAAAQIDEQQhMRJBBRNRImFxgaGx0fAywRSR4QYjQv/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8AoqjY/Zf2v9rVJqNeCsPFet24Y6MDOkrvI3BmrGqsjCp9XfYnqWZoi0U8lhCJGJskdRJH50CwhMDEWT1Et/Wuf8yP6ma/mRI1xZBHXT56VcGoJw6n/wB+z829akWLhckA22IJELc10O8EbU7zI45I5STYr2FOpUT1Gh+Y1rnuYIlmKhhmUnccxm3/APFShaQWSDYIuAGGCBjmmQQyEnp86i38QqgyYIB+IFdfep67pL+MvqQTjGSeUbbGdm8JaRrhtmFBJgydOgPOsHjMYua4FUpkZSFbcAMujRoDsdOTCtRi+J3b7BxpbeLeQEmFksxaJE
16:16:59  <peter1138> I quite dislike the "this is old and hard, we should drop it and start something new" mentality.
16:17:00  <andythenorth> BPIHz1ocZhw2JfNqDcURqP8A27bbjzVflWisxi5S9GZFL65qK7neJxeY27eRQQJzDMJGvhEqOkkdYrunMdh1ADAahlAMsfiYKdz0Jpqp/BJqWnePU0L9O6ZdLeRaKKStkhFopKKAClopKAFpKKWgBKWimrl9V0ZgJ6kUmQHaSeXOi2C5ypq0xoJ1PIDm3lIAGpIGtWFzhLW71rDlbZN5XeSTnlATHeDntsIEkQRVS/WwqeOWRztUXgr6WusTYa02Vwd4kiDJ1CtyB00I0MacwOasV2Rsj1Rew+MlJZQlLWb4xdz3T0QZR67k/PT2q54UpFpJJJIJ1k6EkjfyIqCrVqy6VaXHctWaaVdUbG/5EuiiirZWCiiigAoomiqkuWINClFIKUVCNINhJIMDVRrlUkxGxIMfEafO
16:17:00  <planetmaker> peter1138, the problem is, that one doesn't need to implement "I want CB X" cry. But solve the actual problem
16:17:01  <andythenorth> 7zO05iPyNc4f7n7Dachqv1/oKk1BCuEo7oIsjnDdGce4P5ikOHbk/zUH8iKk1yWimy0dD5iiTzZruRGwzafCYED4l06aTFdA3V2Le1wn/rFcnFtE5cs7SrneY2G+hqVicHibSi5cQKhjX4is/jAbQcqo206KLxJ4/3/ZJCyySzHD/0RGusCJXU6AlLf5oQa4bEMGzZCTMyrtoYgSMz+Q2qRdwzPu689k6iObUzYuEko9wKM0Kcn4TMHxb6T/erI1UJ4U5YFasznpX78x25jrjCCtzcH4A2xBHJeldLi2ich9CrqfbQj609nH/OtH2I/wBxpp8ZDKso8kA5CfDJgEiOvn16Vf0saKfZqtay/T8oWyU5vMiXSUtFbhAJS0lLQAUlLRQAUlVnEeNW7QIzSw5anXzqnv4jEv
16:17:03  <peter1138> THanks andythenorth
16:17:03  <andythenorth> GyhwCNRkAy5iSdpjWJqtbq6quWLhmmxj5bbt0Un6Vi8j3THPQHRiBOx0B586teM8BxVpFbMbiuC3hJzASAsqTOoIPvFQuFYy4q3GVCyhQHOUkCTAzEEZdzr5Vl2a2vUtdL9ncnVeIt9zXdhrmJsBu7wmYuFPjuohygTIBElTMzz0q04lj8V9qwzPhVW6ve92ouqwcMkMC0DLAg+dMdkOOHGKmGz2+8C5lzJcVgfibJcDGIJOkagcxVu9q/fezcui1auYd7haXYLcCNkdkbIQFlD5gESBzpSi3uZ7g1LLj6+vp8SFxrE4y4hL4ADKpObvUMKNSG6rpMeUiCAaqcY3dC5zydd5yhoPuYnyrecQsX3tsgtKcwAOW4CMpPi+ILymvOe16XbJyXUKtdZrkSh8AYkfCx55R7Gr
16:17:03  <TrueBrain> @kick andythenorth
16:17:04  *** andythenorth was kicked by DorpsGek (TrueBrain)
16:17:05  <Eddi|zuHause> the cargo unit thing is a mess
16:17:07  <planetmaker> or sometimes even not
16:17:23  <LordAro> lol
16:17:35  <peter1138> planetmaker, so in that case, what actual problem?
16:17:49  <TrueBrain> *flexes his response time*
16:18:02  <planetmaker> it often is more abstract than "I want X"
16:18:04  <peter1138> CB is a means to achieve something, it's not the problem itself.
16:18:09  <planetmaker> exactly
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16:18:16  <TrueBrain> wb andythenorth :)
16:18:22  <TrueBrain> and thank you for the image
16:18:24  <andythenorth> HTH does 'copy image address' in Chrome get me that?
16:18:26  <planetmaker> so the CB might not be the best response to fix the problem.
16:18:31  <andythenorth> and crash my irc client in a loop
16:18:36  <TrueBrain> you said: copy image, I think :P
16:18:40  <planetmaker> whether it is, that is *our* repsonsibility. Which we often do not fulfill
16:18:45  <andythenorth> well that's what trying to kill spiders gets us
16:18:46  <peter1138> Can you give me an example of something "you want"?
16:18:51  <planetmaker> we just add another patch, enlarging the newgrf mess
16:19:46  <planetmaker> general-purpose stations to which I can assign facilities like rails, truck stop, airport capability (runway,...) or whatever
16:20:02  <andythenorth> yeah so ok
16:20:05  <Eddi|zuHause> that is not blocked by the newgrf specs at all
16:20:21  <andythenorth> it's blocked by the historical inertia around how newgrf is developed
16:20:25  <peter1138> Yeah, that's actually blocked by the architecture of TTD.
16:20:35  <andythenorth> I think that's what frustrates frosch, that incremental patches are added
16:20:40  <peter1138> Well
16:20:41  <andythenorth> when sometimes a whole new layer might be better
16:20:48  <planetmaker> I bet so, too
16:20:55  <andythenorth> frosch123 can tell me if I'm wrong though
16:20:56  <peter1138> Okay, I'm basically being told I need to stop developing features.
16:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause> ... which is nonsense
16:21:19  <planetmaker> no, you are not, peter1138
16:21:33  <peter1138> We have loads of features being added that are completely unrelated to NewGRFs.
16:21:34  <planetmaker> Basically the complaint is "there is no vision on where we want to go"
16:21:44  <planetmaker> "developer interest" like your stated it, is no vision
16:21:51  <planetmaker> it's death-bit-by-bit
16:22:01  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but we don't get a vision by saying "we throw out all old stuff and start from scratch"
16:22:13  <planetmaker> or stagnation as many devs pull it in many directions, adding many patches here and there, making it all-over unmaintainable
16:23:05  <planetmaker> sure we don't get a vision by that, Eddi|zuHause. But letting backward compatibility etc, the details go, and getting an idea of what would be nice overall, design, UI,... would help formulate goals
16:23:06  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that argument is too general to be convincing
16:23:35  <planetmaker> when you have a vision of what you want to build, then you can start from where we are now, and change things step by step
16:23:44  <planetmaker> and do the bigger rewrites where they are needed
16:23:51  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it was almost definitely stagnant a year ago. not anymore.
16:23:52  <andythenorth> is there a way to debug an actual sprite in a compiled grf?
16:23:53  <peter1138> planetmaker,  so what IS your vision, other than removing stuff which is working in the name of making a new vision?
16:24:02  <andythenorth> given a sprite number, can I just grfcodec -d ?
16:24:06  <andythenorth> and read the bytes
16:24:19  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: because someone came by with a vision "we need a better collaboration tool"
16:24:32  <planetmaker> which gave us github
16:24:34  <planetmaker> and azure
16:24:35  <peter1138> Because at the moment it still feels like you're telling me everything I do is pointless and we should be ripping it out.
16:24:50  <planetmaker> no, you misunderstand me, peter1138 . I try not say that
16:24:51  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but you just complain now, without providing an alternative
16:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that is not the same thing
16:25:10  <peter1138> You say newgrf needs to be stopped.
16:25:17  <planetmaker> I'm trying to say that we should beside the day-to-day "I want this" discuss more of where we want to go
16:25:25  <peter1138> Everything added to it is just an adhoc patch, adding to the mess.
16:25:26  <planetmaker> nope, peter1138, I did not say that
16:25:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you very much said that.
16:25:40  <planetmaker> I said that, yes. But both are not identical statements
16:25:57  <andythenorth>  3346 * 19	 02 0A FC 02 03 1F 80 0F 81 23 82 03 34 83 07 84 3E 85 86 'probably fine'
16:25:59  <planetmaker> "not working on it anymore" != "every addition makes a rewrite more difficult"
16:26:25  <peter1138> A rewrite has never been on the cards.
16:26:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that also is nonsense, as "a rewrite" has zero dependency on the amount of cruft already there...
16:27:05  <andythenorth> oof
16:27:06  <planetmaker> well, clearly you have no vision other than "just lets add this and that". Or what do *you* like to have OpenTTD be like in 10 years?
16:27:26  <Eddi|zuHause> well, clearly you don't have that either.
16:27:31  <planetmaker> indeed
16:27:33  <peter1138> I don't know what YOU like to have OpenTTD to be like
16:27:42  <planetmaker> and that's why I'm saying it would help to get one
16:27:44  <peter1138> Other than no addons because we removed it all.
16:27:51  <planetmaker> I don't say that, peter1138
16:27:56  <planetmaker> you're red-herringing there
16:28:25  <peter1138> Not really.
16:28:36  <peter1138> You want a rewrite because newgrf is crufty and crusty.
16:28:46  <planetmaker> I'm saying we should make the add-on apis easier to maintain
16:29:06  <planetmaker> they're complicated on both sides, in openttd and externally
16:29:14  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, but not by "we invalidate all existing GRFs"
16:29:16  <planetmaker> duplicating parts,
16:29:17  <TrueBrain> I think, if I can interrupt, that planetmaker was using a solution to create a vision: a world where OpenTTD is a framework on which many functionalities are plugged in
16:29:30  <TrueBrain> I think he is simply asking if we can work by vision, instead of by day-to-day
16:29:39  <planetmaker> thank you TrueBrain !
16:29:41  <TrueBrain> sadly, that is exactly what my day job is, so I get that :P
16:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no "instead"
16:29:47  <peter1138> Okay, provide a vision.
16:29:51  <planetmaker> ...
16:29:53  <peter1138> Yeah
16:29:56  <peter1138> Exactly.
16:30:01  <TrueBrain> I think it is interesting to note, that OpenTTD never had a real vision. We always went from big project to big project
16:30:08  <TrueBrain> so I am always a bit on the fence if we need one
16:30:10  <Eddi|zuHause> we can work day-to-day, or have a vision AND work day-to-day
16:30:14  <TrueBrain> we need big projects, that is for sure :)
16:30:19  <Eddi|zuHause> have a vision alone gets us nowhere
16:30:22  <andythenorth> we have one :P
16:30:22  <andythenorth> I'll find it
16:30:35  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, I think we had one till 1.0: recreate TTD and have it fully playable on its own
16:30:36  <andythenorth>
16:30:40  <peter1138> I also think you're are overstating the "mess"
16:30:48  <TrueBrain> (when I joined OpenTTD .. it was  "big maps" .. "makefile rewrite" .. "network rewrite" .. "TGP" .. "NoAI" .. "GS" .. lost track of OpenTTD after that :P)
16:31:00  <peter1138> Now it's makefile rewrite...
16:31:01  <planetmaker> peter1138, so stations are completeley different than all the rest. So are bridges
16:31:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
16:31:21  <peter1138> planetmaker, bridges have never been extended by newgrf.
16:31:23  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: that 1.0 is indeed fair :) That was also the reason we named it 1.0, if my memory serves me well :)
16:31:35  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, yes, that's what I recall, too
16:31:43  <peter1138> planetmaker, so that's a perfect place to start with a vision of "not newgrf mess"
16:32:06  <planetmaker> frosch123, has written about that quite nice summary already...
16:32:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "unify the station spec with the industry/object/whatever spec" is a perfectly fine goal
16:32:44  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123 has had a "newgrf utopia" for years now.
16:32:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
16:32:52  <peter1138> Yeah, stations are different because that's the spec :/
16:32:54  <planetmaker> to add on it
16:33:06  <peter1138> We could drop the old spec, and then... piss off everyone using them.
16:33:21  <peter1138> And it's only the tile layouts that are different.
16:33:32  <Eddi|zuHause> .. or we could make a new spec and call that GRFv9
16:33:45  <planetmaker> also
16:33:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but we won't get around keeping "the old cruft" there
16:34:00  <planetmaker> we could, for instance, deprecate v6-
16:34:11  <peter1138> Why?
16:34:12  <Eddi|zuHause> why?
16:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no part of the code that handles the v6-specific stuff blocks any of the NewGRF Utopia features
16:35:09  <Eddi|zuHause> and a vision is useless, if you're not day-to-day-working towards that vision
16:35:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
16:36:08  <andythenorth> from the code I've seen in OpenTTD, the cruft there doesn't block much
16:36:14  <planetmaker> I don't find the graphics now, but frosch made a nice graph for refitting vehicles. That also would need unifying so that you don't have to learn it anew to differ between trains, rv, ships and planes
16:36:21  <andythenorth> it's in the toolchain and the wiki that the cruft hurts
16:36:34  <planetmaker> you're right there, andythenorth
16:36:37  <andythenorth> I don't think the cost of the C++ is the problem, based on limited evidence
16:36:48  <planetmaker> in newgrf.cpp it's mostly more code lines which live independently
16:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: vehicle refitting is also not helped a single bit by ripping out the old code
16:37:17  <planetmaker> so yes, I concede, in OpenTTD that might remain, in the toolchains... it's less urgent to remain being able to still compile grfv6 or so
16:37:43  <planetmaker> as one of the biggest shortcomings is indeed the newgrf compilers...
16:37:54  <peter1138> So in nmlc we decided on removing the old pre-16-in-16-out cargo stuff.
16:38:08  <peter1138> And yet we were also told we need to keep compatibility.
16:38:22  <planetmaker> are we?
16:38:36  <planetmaker> I didn't
16:38:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that went back and forth a bit. it's like different people have different visions...
16:38:53  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, quite.
16:39:00  <peter1138> planetmaker, you didn't what?
16:39:09  <nielsm> new ttd needs to work with old grf, but new nmlc only needs to produce modern grf?
16:39:24  <nielsm> imo a difference in production and consumption side
16:39:26  <planetmaker> nielsm, that's how I can live quite well
16:39:32  <peter1138> nielsm, but nmlc needs to compile old nml
16:39:52  <planetmaker> it's not like I can compile openttd 0.5 any longer. Unless I downgrade everything to 10 years back or so
16:39:55  <peter1138> I can't remember who was stating one thing and who was stating the opposite.
16:39:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
16:40:16  <nielsm> for an nml project, there's very few consumers (just the developers), it's easy to coordinate with everyone to upgrade the project code to work with a new nml
16:40:23  <planetmaker> I always advocated to have nml only produce latest grf specs. It always had that stance before
16:40:35  <TrueBrain> bump major, go go :)
16:40:44  <nielsm> for a finished newgrf there's potentially thousands of consumers, it's near impossible to get everyone to (want to) upgrade
16:40:52  <planetmaker> and keeping a legacy version for a year to allow authors to transition existing code bases to new syntax
16:41:12  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: there's still a difference between "produce new output" and "process existing input"
16:41:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
16:41:42  <glx> use the old compiler if you want to parse old code
16:41:56  <glx> happens with many tools
16:42:00  <nielsm> for a much larger project, Rust language seems to have done okay despite having breaking changes every so often
16:42:12  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, we had that argument and I agreed
16:42:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say in case of the 16-in-out, the code needed to process the old input (but produce the new output) is maybe 10loc
16:42:23  <nielsm> (though I admit not following it, just going by rumours here)
16:42:50  <planetmaker> ok, seems we don't
16:43:01  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to weigh carefully whether cutting those 10LOC are more important than having half a dozen people rewrite their GRFs
16:43:31  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm talking about nmlc here
16:43:32  <planetmaker> it's not much work for any author. And they have time
16:43:35  <planetmaker> I know
16:43:46  <peter1138> If they're still around.
16:44:03  <planetmaker> if not, it's unmaintained code. An existing NewGRF is not harmed, if nml changes
16:44:09  <andythenorth> it's quite meta this conversation :P
16:44:17  <andythenorth> meanwhile, in trying to actually get 16-cargos done
16:44:20  <andythenorth> it doesn't work
16:44:21  <peter1138> andythenorth, it's certainly not a vision.
16:44:24  <peter1138> We need a vision.
16:44:26  <andythenorth> I do like a meta conversation
16:44:28  <peter1138> But we don't have one.
16:44:34  <peter1138> Our vision is to have a vision.
16:44:35  <andythenorth> I'm not even trolling
16:44:44  <andythenorth> but I only have today to try and make this 16-cargo business work
16:44:46  <peter1138> Meanwhile, stop everything because it's harder to have a vision.
16:44:47  <planetmaker> that's a way to kill any conversation, peter1138
16:45:03  <peter1138> planetmaker, it's a fruitless conversation.
16:45:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
16:45:13  <andythenorth> so what's wrong with this?
16:45:14  <planetmaker> I totally disagree
16:45:14  <andythenorth>  3346 * 19	 02 0A FC 02 03 1F 80 0F 81 23 82 03 34 83 07 84 3E 85 86
16:45:18  <andythenorth> why is it an invalid sprite?
16:45:19  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: so, where is your advice to andythenorth to convert his existing grf to the new syntax?
16:45:32  <andythenorth> that's exactly what planetmaker advised
16:45:39  <peter1138> We've spent 45 minutes discussing and not doing anything.
16:45:41  <andythenorth> and that's exactly what I'm trying to do
16:45:43  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: andy does not use nml, so is not affected by any nml change
16:45:53  <andythenorth> oof
16:46:00  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that is not quite correct :p
16:46:03  <planetmaker> just change a few lines in the nml-writer
16:46:09  * andythenorth plays blitz while we figure this out
16:46:18  <peter1138> andythenorth, what is the "sprite" mean to mbe?
16:46:18  <andythenorth> meanwhile, those bytes aren't valid, and I have NFI
16:46:19  <peter1138> -m
16:46:21  <planetmaker> it has a production template anyway...
16:46:32  <peter1138> What produced the bytes?
16:46:39  <planetmaker> I don't even know the intended syntax
16:46:40  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it would help if you explained what the bytes meant
16:46:51  <andythenorth> isn't it obvious?
16:46:56  <andythenorth> it's sprite 3346
16:47:42  <peter1138> action 02 (varaction) feature 0a (industries)
16:48:15  <peter1138> What's the error you get with that sequence?
16:49:01  <glx> TrueBrain: ran generate and generate.vbs, no changes
16:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the 02 seems to be wrong
16:49:18  <peter1138> Which one? :)
16:49:32  <Eddi|zuHause> expecting "type" here (81/85/89)
16:49:34  <glx> TrueBrain: and mingw builds and runs
16:49:37  <Eddi|zuHause> the second one
16:49:42  <Eddi|zuHause> after FC
16:50:00  <andythenorth>
16:50:03  <peter1138> That's num-ent.
16:50:26  <peter1138> depending on feature. apparnetly.
16:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, so it's a normal action2 not a varaction2?
16:50:52  <andythenorth> it's produce
16:50:54  <peter1138> Could be, yes.
16:51:19  <andythenorth>
16:51:28  <peter1138> Yeah, special production callback.
16:51:39  <Eddi|zuHause>
16:51:40  <andythenorth> so 86 looks like an odd value for last byte
16:51:47  <peter1138> planetmaker smirks as everything we talk about now proves his point :p
16:51:54  <andythenorth> well yes but no
16:52:16  <peter1138> andythenorth, what generated this, if it's invalid?
16:52:24  <andythenorth> nml from that PR
16:52:35  <andythenorth> but I don't know if I'm using it correctly
16:52:45  <andythenorth> these are the docs
16:53:05  <andythenorth> and reading the parser, which I gave up
16:53:28  <planetmaker> I have no reason to smirk. But yes, it kinda does prove my point
16:53:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so the last 86 seems to be the <again> entry
16:53:57  <TrueBrain> ty glx!
16:54:00  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not seeing anything fundamentally wrong with that
16:54:07  <Eddi|zuHause> without understanding what it does.
16:54:10  <peter1138> Yup
16:55:25  <andythenorth> are the register numbers valid?
16:55:47  <andythenorth> reading the bytes, it all looks correct
16:55:58  <andythenorth> is my openttd broken?
16:56:09  <Eddi|zuHause> what are registers >80?
16:57:25  <peter1138> andythenorth, if you look in the NewGRF settings window, it should tell you more about the error.
16:57:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #7362: Feature: Reverse train at waypoint orders (jgr)
16:58:58  <andythenorth> Fatal: Invalid industry production callback
16:59:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7362: Feature: Reverse train at waypoint orders (jgr)
16:59:38  <peter1138> error->data should ahve more info
16:59:38  <peter1138> Hmm
16:59:58  <andythenorth> if only grfs were easy to share :P
17:00:04  <peter1138> Share it.
17:00:46  <andythenorth> oh fuck off GH, no .tar allowed
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17:01:26  <andythenorth>
17:02:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7362: Feature: Reverse train at waypoint orders (jgr)
17:04:17  <peter1138> version 1. Yeah, that's not working :p
17:04:47  <andythenorth> new FIRS is version 1 :)
17:05:50  <andythenorth> I might just leave it on version 1 always
17:05:59  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a horrible idea
17:06:38  <andythenorth> version 2? o_O
17:07:16  <andythenorth> let's try changing the nml and see what happens
17:07:25  <peter1138> duplicate input cargo
17:07:26  <peter1138> Hmm
17:07:50  <peter1138> I think the error string is wrong.
17:08:04  <peter1138> 2:RAW_STRING provides the error data 1:RAW_STRING is the grf name.
17:08:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure the patch was well-tested :p
17:09:34  <peter1138> ndex 0 - rawcargo 31, cargo 10
17:09:34  <peter1138> index 1 - rawcargo 15, cargo 255
17:09:34  <peter1138> index 2 - rawcargo 35, cargo 255
17:09:55  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you were absent during the last hour?  o_O
17:09:57  <andythenorth> that's the testing :)
17:10:11  <peter1138> So 0F and 23 resolve to the same mapped cargo id (i.e. not mapped)
17:10:33  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there was this nonsense discussion in the last hour, that i'd rather pretend never happened
17:10:38  *** Samu has joined #openttd
17:10:40  <peter1138> So basically
17:10:51  <peter1138> Your cargo type 0F and 23 and not mapped in the game.
17:10:58  <andythenorth> ok
17:11:04  <andythenorth> let's try hard-coding them
17:11:10  <peter1138> NO
17:11:35  <peter1138> How many cargo types are you expecting here?
17:11:37  <andythenorth> I think it's a FIRS bug in that case
17:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need a different produce block for every economy, it seems
17:11:48  <peter1138> I see 18.
17:11:49  <andythenorth> I suspect there are broken cargos in play
17:12:20  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yes, because this is a result telling openttd where to find the values.
17:12:38  <peter1138> (It's not input for the newgrf to do something with)
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17:12:53  <andythenorth> ok, so I have broken cargos, but they're compiling fine
17:13:03  <peter1138> How many cargo types should there be?
17:13:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
17:13:13  <andythenorth> they're not triggering any FIRS asserts, nor docs asserts, nor nml asserts :P
17:13:16  * andythenorth looking
17:13:30  <andythenorth> docs say 74
17:13:37  <peter1138> 74 whats?
17:13:43  <andythenorth> 74 cargo types
17:13:46  <andythenorth> if I try a different industry, it loads
17:13:53  <peter1138> But there can only be 64 cargo types tops.
17:14:59  <andythenorth> I'm bisecting
17:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the way i understand the situation: each economy defines a subset of the cargo types. the produce block may only reference cargos that are in this current subset
17:15:45  <andythenorth> yes
17:15:56  <Eddi|zuHause> you're breaking that rule
17:16:09  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why openttd complains
17:16:27  <andythenorth> we'll see
17:16:56  <andythenorth> yep, looks like that's not wrapped
17:16:59  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what peter1138 was asking was, how many cargos are in the subset
17:17:02  <andythenorth> yes
17:17:13  <nielsm> hmm, the produce action2 in grf refers to cargo by its cargotable index, iirc
17:17:38  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: yes, but the cargotable can have more cargos in it, not all of them must be valid
17:17:45  <nielsm> ok
17:17:58  <andythenorth> ok, so the old produce block never needed to reference cargos
17:18:02  <andythenorth> it was just position based
17:18:06  <nielsm> yeah
17:18:11  <andythenorth> so there's nothing to wrap it in a conditional
17:18:22  <nielsm> meaning different industries that followed the same rules but with different cargos, could share the same produce blocks
17:18:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it wasn't necessary before, but it's necessary now
17:18:36  <andythenorth> can I action 7 a produce block?
17:18:54  <peter1138> yes
17:18:55  <nielsm> uh, I hope so? :)
17:18:56  <andythenorth> let's just try
17:19:20  <peter1138> any action2 chain should be able to be broken up.
17:19:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you could have the produce block be referenced by a switch?
17:19:38  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc there was a giant warning about skipping action 2s
17:19:50  <Eddi|zuHause> advising to skip the action3 instead
17:20:05  <peter1138> Well I don't know anything. I have no vision.
17:20:36  <peter1138> nielsm, the error->data has a text message which is useful for diagnosis, but this is never output.
17:20:55  <andythenorth> nmlc ERROR: "generated/firs.nml", line 6061: produce-block may not appear inside a conditional block.
17:21:07  <andythenorth> yeah, I recall this, some blocks can't be conditional
17:21:18  <peter1138> nielsm, could be the STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_INDPROD_CALLBACK string refers to wrong parameters.
17:21:39  <nielsm> unrelated:
17:22:30  <andythenorth> nielsm: I am going to spend the rest of the day trying to fit myself onto one box of that grid
17:23:02  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: try the switch idea?
17:23:30  <Eddi|zuHause> switch(economy) { 1: produce1; 2: produce2; ... }?
17:23:31  <andythenorth> I don't understand how to do that?
17:23:39  <peter1138> One thing.
17:23:47  <andythenorth> or rather Eddi|zuHause I don't understand how that helps
17:23:48  <nielsm> hmm, I wonder if the produce cb should be changed to only resolve the actual cargo on call (or on first call maybe?)
17:24:06  <nielsm> so it's not an error to have a produce cb referencing a cargo that doesn't exist
17:24:15  <nielsm> only an error to use it
17:24:16  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: do you have the nml code for the produce block?
17:24:20  <andythenorth> yes about to paste
17:24:28  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and the related industry
17:24:30  <andythenorth>
17:24:30  <peter1138> nielsm, it is pretty odd that this is checked on load, to be honest.
17:24:44  <andythenorth> I will paste more in a minute
17:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the location where "blast_furnace_simple_produce_0" is used
17:25:00  <andythenorth> children making electric helicopters here, which have sharp edges
17:25:05  <andythenorth> and are flying around the room
17:25:10  <andythenorth> one person bleeding already
17:25:24  <peter1138> nielsm, i'm worried this may end up being something that needs a backport.
17:25:29  <peter1138> well, "worried"
17:25:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
17:25:58  <nielsm> peter1138 yeah...
17:26:00  <Samu> it builds here
17:26:06  <nielsm> I'm looking at the newgrf code now
17:26:17  <Samu> this was the most complex rebase I've ever experienced
17:26:24  <peter1138> I guess if you skip it it's okay,b ut....
17:26:38  <peter1138> Samu, yeah, some rebases are rewrites.
17:26:51  <nielsm> but it's difficult to concentrate with a bird insisting on tooting in weird rhythms all the time
17:27:34  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause
17:27:35  <peter1138> Samu, well... thats, er... one way to do it...
17:27:35  <andythenorth> you don't need the action 0 or action 3, the entry point is blast_furnace_produce
17:28:11  <andythenorth> I've included the not-allowed-by-nml action 7s
17:28:16  <andythenorth> I can drop those if it helps
17:28:36  <peter1138> Yeah you are switching on economy, that looks like it should be correct.
17:28:43  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ok, so it's already guarded by economy switch
17:28:47  <andythenorth> yes
17:28:48  <peter1138> As nielsm says, it's a loading error.
17:28:59  <andythenorth> the problem is resolving cargo labels no?
17:29:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so openttd is complaining about the content of an action2 that shouldn't be executed
17:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause> which seems to be a bug in the patch
17:29:18  <peter1138> Yup
17:29:40  <peter1138> Should be simple to fix.
17:29:50  <andythenorth> fun :)
17:29:56  <peter1138> Accept invalid cargo mappings.
17:30:29  <Eddi|zuHause> accept invalid mappings in the loading phase, but complain in the execution
17:30:40  <peter1138> Right.
17:30:54  <peter1138> So if it's 0xFF when actually running it, then it's an error.
17:31:08  <peter1138> The mapping doesn't need to be moved.
17:31:56  <peter1138> It may be desirable to make loading give an invalid callback result rather than one that looks valid but isn't.
17:32:05  <peter1138> But either case would be checked in the same place, I guess.
17:32:40  <nielsm> ugh, this is annoying... I can either resolve the actual CargoIDs every time the cb is executed
17:32:45  <Eddi|zuHause> weather looking like "better not go outside"
17:32:48  <peter1138> nielsm, it's fine where they are
17:33:09  <nielsm> or I can do some ugly caching that will involve either const_cast or mutable
17:33:13  <peter1138> if (cargo_index < 0 ) continue;
17:33:20  <peter1138> I don't think cargo_index < 0 is possible.
17:33:27  <nielsm> hmm
17:33:35  <peter1138> Or!
17:33:41  <peter1138> if it is, it already handles the case correctly.
17:34:05  <peter1138>                 if (cargo == CT_INVALID) return -1;
17:34:08  <peter1138> ^^ yup
17:34:29  <peter1138> So the only bit missing is reporting an error if cargo_index < 0 there.
17:35:45  <nielsm> okay I was misunderstanding the problem then
17:35:54  <nielsm> I thought the grf was failing to load at all
17:36:04  <nielsm> but it's just malfunctioning?
17:36:15  <peter1138> Shall I make a PR for andythenorth to test?
17:36:29  <nielsm> if you have a better overview than me then yes please
17:38:48  <Samu> oops, some stuff needs fixing yet
17:39:25  <andythenorth> pls
17:39:35  <andythenorth> just put a patch on FS?
17:39:41  <peter1138> :p
17:40:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
17:40:16  <peter1138> That branch name though.
17:41:37  <peter1138> So the bit missing now is to pop up an error if it skips a cargo type.
17:41:39  <nielsm> hmm, I'd rather keep those if blocks
17:41:41  <peter1138> Or maybe that's valid?
17:41:45  <peter1138> Why?
17:41:48  <nielsm> but add a condition to them, cargo != CT_INVALID
17:42:08  <peter1138> Hmm, I see.
17:42:10  <nielsm> it's okay to resolve multiple invalid cargoes, but it's not okay to resolve the same type multiplem times
17:42:32  <peter1138> Okay, I'll tweak it. Meanwhile andythenorth can test the rest of his production code.
17:43:20  <peter1138> nielsm, did you understand about the error->data message?
17:43:47  <peter1138> Currently it shows the grf name in quotes.
17:44:06  <peter1138> I wonder if that is not the intention, and perhaps it should show the error->data message instead?
17:44:10  <andythenorth> ok peter1138 that now loads the grf
17:44:44  <peter1138> andythenorth, yup, I know that. I don't know enough about your mechanics to acvtually test production :)
17:44:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
17:45:03  <andythenorth> ok cool
17:45:19  <andythenorth> I'm a ways off anything working
17:45:31  <andythenorth> FIRS stuck rigidly to assumptions of 3 in, 2 out, because YAGNI
17:45:41  <andythenorth> lots to change
17:46:36  <nielsm> peter1138: nope, GRFError is weird to me
17:46:46  <andythenorth> is there a way to give a list as args to make?
17:46:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
17:46:57  <andythenorth> I can pass a single industry name and it will compile only that
17:47:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
17:47:03  <andythenorth> but I can't pass multiple
17:47:36  <peter1138> nielsm, so now it permits CT_INVALID but otherwise checks duplicates.
17:48:01  <peter1138> I hope that some "economy" setting doesn't result in the same cargo ID for different mappings. I should not.
17:48:21  <Samu> I have a question regarding this line
17:48:42  <andythenorth> peter1138: wouldn't that imply changing the cargo ID?
17:48:44  <Samu> shouldn't this Include be done after ensuring that at least 1 amount is moved?
17:48:53  <Samu> after line 1065?
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17:49:43  <andythenorth> or does it go via the CTT?
17:49:45  <Samu> uint amount = min(num_pieces, 0xFFFFU - ind->incoming_cargo_waiting[cargo_index]); can make amount == 0
17:49:55  <andythenorth> I mean, who'd change the cargo ID? :P Except me
17:50:20  <peter1138> andythenorth, it's all via the CTT. Not using the CTT would be an early-version GRF.
17:50:37  <andythenorth> there was something once about multiple CTTs
17:50:44  <andythenorth> it was a little drama
17:50:50  <peter1138> There are lots of CTTs.
17:50:58  <peter1138> They're unique to each loaded NewGRF.
17:51:04  <andythenorth> this was multiple in same grf
17:51:06  <andythenorth> canadian things
17:51:19  <andythenorth> adapting the CTT to different vehicle sets
17:51:23  <peter1138> Samu, I don't think it can be.
17:51:58  <Samu> why include an industry to the list if it receives 0?
17:52:16  <planetmaker> it might get something later?
17:52:19  <peter1138> Samu, prove to me that it can receive 0 at that point.
17:52:55  <Samu> incoming_cargo_waiting could be a stockpile
17:53:50  <nielsm> peter1138, I think it can reach that line even if ind->incoming_cargo_waiting[cargo_index] == 0xFFFF
17:54:10  <nielsm> so the second arg to min would become zero
17:54:51  <peter1138> Okay.
17:55:27  <nielsm> question is, should be industry count as having received a delivery (of zero) if its stockpile is full?
17:55:28  <peter1138> And the problem is it will trigger production when it should not have done.
17:55:36  <peter1138> nielsm, probably not.
17:56:45  <peter1138> Samu, i guess this is just a case of explaining the problem clearly :p
17:57:18  <peter1138> andythenorth, I updated the PR if you want to retry it.
17:57:47  <nielsm> the PR looks correct, I'll approve it if andythenorth can confirm it works
17:58:03  <andythenorth> testing again
17:58:21  <peter1138> I guess this is an edge-case due to andythenorth implementing multiple "economies" on one NewGRF.
17:58:25  <peter1138> But it would be nice to backport it.
17:58:46  <nielsm> imo 1.9.0 ought to work with upcoming FIRS :)
17:58:56  <andythenorth> kinda yes
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17:59:11  <andythenorth> but upcoming FIRS is more like 1.12 or something
17:59:15  <andythenorth> takes a long time, FIRSing
17:59:27  <peter1138> Urgh, I need to update all the strings too :/
17:59:45  <peter1138> Apparently it's snowing.
17:59:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
18:00:46  <andythenorth> so passing shell args as a list? o_O
18:00:48  <andythenorth> no go?
18:02:14  <peter1138> What?
18:02:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
18:03:48  <peter1138> So, one remaining issue.
18:04:00  <peter1138> It's an error to use this broken production callback, but that's not enforced.
18:04:20  <nielsm> if it has invalid cargos? I guess yeah
18:04:37  <peter1138> Hmm, there's an "ErrorUnknownCallbackResult()"
18:04:42  <peter1138> It's not quite unknown :p
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18:05:30  <peter1138> Is it an invalid result, though.
18:05:35  <peter1138>  * Record that a NewGRF returned an unknown/invalid callback result.
18:05:35  <nielsm> ShowErrorMessage(STR_NEWGRF_BUGGY, STR_NEWGRF_BUGGY_something_new_with_invalid_cargos, WL_ERROR);
18:05:52  <Samu> so, "should the industry count as having received a delivery (of zero) if its stockpile is full?"
18:06:08  <nielsm> it's not really, just make the cb do nothing (and not loop) and show an error
18:06:32  <nielsm> maybe even add a new flag on the IndustryProductionSpriteGroup to indicate it's invalid
18:06:36  <Samu> need an answer to solve this dilema on my PR
18:06:52  <peter1138> Hmm.
18:06:55  <nielsm> like maybe a false 'version' number (255)
18:07:05  <peter1138> nielsm, so change the loading AGAIN :D
18:07:13  <peter1138> flag the error on load
18:07:15  <nielsm> if any of the cargos resolve to CT_INVALID during loading
18:07:18  <peter1138> and if it's used, ignore it.
18:07:21  <nielsm> yeah
18:08:06  *** yoltid[m] has joined #openttd
18:08:12  <nielsm> during loading: if (cargo == CT_INVALID) group->version == 255;
18:08:30  <nielsm> during execution: if (group->version == 255) { show_error(); return; }
18:08:54  <nielsm> one = too many in first line
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18:13:05  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder, it may already have looped, and therefore produced cargo.
18:13:10  <Samu> this feels wrong, I can't reject an industry and count it as the same time
18:13:43  <nielsm> hmm yeah it could return different prod cbs on multiple loops
18:13:58  <peter1138> I think it doesn't matter.
18:14:19  <nielsm> you'd need something to capture a "backtrace" of the cb chain then
18:14:51  <peter1138> I'm happy to accept this as an edge case that the NewGRF author should have taken care of.
18:19:18  <peter1138> q
18:19:28  <TrueBrain> no, :q
18:19:41  <peter1138> TrueBrain, that is exactly what I typed :/
18:22:47  <peter1138> nielsm, be interesting to see if I get the warning popup :-)
18:24:14  <Samu> found a bug peter1138 with your
18:24:28  <Samu> a dock is receiving engineering supplies
18:24:37  <Samu> and should not
18:24:47  <peter1138> it's probably not that one.
18:25:04  <Samu> oh
18:25:15  <peter1138> Yeah that was a cockup :/
18:25:53  <peter1138> andythenorth, I can't test this any further as there's no way to trigger production.
18:26:08  <nielsm> hmm? but the industries that produce engineering supplies don't have attached stations
18:26:12  <andythenorth> yeah I have quite a lot to do
18:26:13  <Samu>
18:26:18  <nielsm> so those _should_ arrive at player stations
18:26:36  <Samu> when hovering it, engineering supplies is not listed
18:26:45  <Samu> but once placed, engineering supplies become listed
18:26:52  <peter1138> Can you give me a savegame?
18:26:56  <Samu> ok
18:27:01  <andythenorth> if I stop playing Blitz every 10 mins, I can probably get 16-cargo FIRS working tonight
18:27:28  <nielsm> oh, you meant "accepts engineering supplies" not "receives them"
18:27:53  <peter1138> Hmm, is it just the text that's wrong?
18:28:01  <Samu> i dont know
18:28:22  <peter1138> Right, might not be producing.
18:28:58  <Samu> the dock should not accept Engineering supplies
18:29:10  <Samu> dock is also joined with a bus station
18:29:11  <peter1138> It may be that it doesn't and it's only the text there that's wrong.
18:29:26  <peter1138> But I'm speculating without that savegame.
18:30:13  <peter1138> At least this isn't anything that needs backporting :)
18:30:27  <Samu> ugh, need to test on master :)
18:30:58  <Samu> building master
18:31:42  <Samu> gonna try rebuilding the bus station
18:32:24  <peter1138> fluidsynth: warning: Failed to pin the sample data to RAM; swapping is possible.
18:32:27  <peter1138> Hmm.
18:32:38  <peter1138> I don't have music playing, but I guess it still initializes it.
18:32:39  <nielsm> it always gives me that warning
18:32:54  <nielsm> yeah it starts the music driver on boot
18:33:13  <nielsm> I'm not sure what to do to allow pinning, or even just silence the warning
18:33:59  <Samu> that's funny
18:34:18  <Samu> it seems to happen only because I loaded an old savegame?
18:34:27  <andythenorth> is Samu our QA expert now? :)
18:34:48  <peter1138> Samu, acceptance is saved.
18:34:51  <planetmaker> doing not the worst job one can do
18:34:58  <michi_cc> nielsm: Dr. Google says
18:34:59  <Samu> well, i'm gonna provide the old save then
18:35:18  <peter1138> Samu, if the game is unpaused, does the acceptance update?
18:35:25  <michi_cc> At least if you are in something Debian-based I guess.
18:35:43  <Samu> nop
18:35:48  <peter1138> Yeah, if it's memlock then you basically need to ignore the warning.
18:35:48  <Samu> i think not, gonna retry
18:36:07  <peter1138> There may be a flag to tell fluidsynth to not try.
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18:38:49  <Samu> i can't reproduce the bug, ... sorry, i have no idea why
18:39:20  <Samu> maybe my master is not up to date ye
18:39:57  <nielsm>
18:39:59  <nielsm> found it
18:40:03  <Samu> yeh, 23 commits behind
18:40:08  <Samu> re-retrying
18:41:04  <Samu> aha, triggered!
18:41:10  <Samu> it's one of the last 23 commits
18:41:13  <Samu> causing it
18:41:22  <peter1138> Don't bother trying to find out which one.
18:41:30  <peter1138> Just send me the save.
18:42:43  <Samu> nevermind, i'm stupid
18:42:50  <Samu> forgot to disable setting
18:42:52  <peter1138> LOL
18:44:17  <Samu> there is no bug, just me doing my tests wrong
18:44:19  <Samu> sorry
18:45:18  <peter1138> Phew.
18:46:03  <Samu> yeah, game was paused first time I spotted it
18:46:48  <Samu> yep - pause button pressed
18:46:56  <Samu> why im so dumb at times
18:47:16  <peter1138> Well, you might not expect that acceptance is not updated instantly.
18:47:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
18:47:22  <peter1138> And in fact, maybe it should be.
18:49:24  <glx> finally finished to rebase all my cmake branches
18:50:02  <peter1138> Hm, I wonder if acceptance needs to be updated after all the catchment is updated, or at the same time.
18:50:56  <Samu> nah not needed
18:51:01  <Samu> it was just me
18:56:10  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
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18:59:06  <andythenorth> I look forward to rewriting FIRS in nml2 :D
19:01:31  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I kept the lower case, as I18N looks weird
19:01:34  <TrueBrain> but sure, what-ever you want :P
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19:04:00  <andythenorth> produce block seems to be working btw
19:04:19  <andythenorth> FIRS code is not finished, I just made it produce 100 units per prod cb run
19:04:20  <andythenorth> works
19:04:33  <andythenorth> amounts look kinda correct
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19:07:57  <peter1138> Hi
19:08:04  <peter1138> Just prepared veg for my dinner.
19:08:10  <peter1138> Been here so long I hadn't noticed the time.
19:08:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
19:08:30  <peter1138> Samu, I'm glad it wasn't a real bug, don't worry about it :)
19:09:02  <peter1138> Samu, with the (unpushed) catchment visualization patch it's trivial to see if it is correct.
19:09:38  <peter1138> With neutral stations, catchment for the station is only the industry, no surrounding tiles at all.
19:10:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
19:10:41  <nielsm> I think we need a "catchment"/"influence area" button graphic that can be used in both station windows and in town windows
19:10:48  <nielsm> to see catchment and town LA zones
19:11:41  <peter1138> Yup.
19:11:47  <peter1138> I have it, keeping it to myself ;)
19:13:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7184: Feature: Distribute cargo to multiple stations or industries
19:15:36  <andythenorth>  52s to compile FIRS
19:15:38  <andythenorth> oof
19:16:14  <nielsm> yeah a newgrf linker would be nice :)
19:16:39  <nielsm> or perhaps multiple
19:17:17  <andythenorth> how many times can I write to a register in one switch?
19:17:24  <andythenorth> no idea what nml does with that internally
19:17:30  <nielsm> one that consumes multiple objects and combine to one object, adjusting sprite numbers and references
19:18:05  <nielsm> and another that takes an object and some string data and produces strings sprites and fixes up string ids in the object
19:18:15  <andythenorth> this should result in values of 1100+ in register 10
19:18:17  <andythenorth> it doesn't
19:18:21  <andythenorth> the value is 100 in all cases
19:18:50  <andythenorth> I wonder if registers are updated immediate, or if there's some flushing?
19:19:01  <nielsm> hmm that ought to produce a chain of multiple varaction2 afaik?
19:19:08  <andythenorth> that's what I assumed
19:19:25  <andythenorth> am I just being thick?  Is the syntax correct?
19:20:16  <nielsm> oh uh
19:20:25  <nielsm> the last step is STORE_PERM(100, 10)
19:20:33  <nielsm> which overwrites anything previously stored in perm 10
19:20:44  <andythenorth> yup
19:20:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
19:20:50  <andythenorth> thanks
19:21:10  <andythenorth> because nfo works upwards, I sometimes forget that nml is sensible :P
19:21:19  <nielsm> :D
19:21:24  <andythenorth> I taught my brain to do logic backwards for action 2 chains
19:22:16  <andythenorth> I am reading that switch and expanding it to advanced varact 2 :P
19:22:19  <andythenorth> but nml does that for me
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19:23:07  <nielsm>
19:23:18  <nielsm> empty line added :(
19:23:36  <peter1138> nielsm, comment on the PR :p
19:24:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
19:24:10  <peter1138> Okay, do I need to protect this error message to stop it being spammy?
19:24:50  <nielsm> nah, annoy anyone using a buggy grf
19:25:15  <peter1138> I kinda need a buggy test GRF to test it ;)
19:26:24  <Samu> testing an AI in multiplayer
19:28:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
19:28:28  <peter1138> ^ nielsm ?
19:28:51  <nielsm> looking
19:29:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
19:29:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
19:31:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7364: Fix e66cec8f86: Permit loading of industry production callback with invalid cargo type.
19:31:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
19:31:25  <peter1138> checking fluidsynth... not found
19:31:30  <peter1138> Yeah, maybe we need to fix that.
19:31:35  <peter1138> CI does not check fluidsynth.
19:31:53  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder if the release build includes it.
19:32:23  <nielsm> linux static?
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19:32:46  <supermop_Home_> no pipes on flat cars andy
19:33:17  <andythenorth> supermop_Home_: needs cargo drawn
19:33:22  <peter1138> Indeed, no fluidsynth in releases./
19:33:25  <andythenorth> want to contributify supermop_Home_ ?
19:33:28  <andythenorth> :P
19:33:32  <peter1138> Is it wanted?
19:34:19  <andythenorth> supermop_Home_: cargos go in here
19:34:33  <andythenorth> then they're automatically applied in Horse, Hog, Sam
19:34:44  <nielsm> I think libfluidsynth will only work well if it has a system-wide (or maybe user-wide) configuration file specifying a sample bank
19:35:27  <supermop_Home_> andythenorth can take the pipes i drew for my nrt RVs
19:35:59  <andythenorth> o_O
19:36:05  <andythenorth> there's some in CHIPS as well
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19:42:49  <peter1138> nielsm, ok.
19:43:01  <peter1138> nielsm, just means it passes CI even if the code is wrong ;)
19:49:43  <LordAro> TrueBrain: it's like xkcd - "xkcd" is preferred, but where necessary "XKCD" is better than "Xkcd"
19:50:08  <TrueBrain> LordAro: it is nothing like that, but I like your thinking :D
19:50:38  <TrueBrain> (xkcd is not a combination of 2 words :P)
19:56:06  <andythenorth> oof integer maths strikes again
19:56:08  <andythenorth> really andythenorth
19:56:56  <andythenorth> so many parentheses here :P
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20:01:13  <andythenorth> nielsm: ultimately this new produce cb is so much a better format
20:01:23  <andythenorth> the final FIRS code is no shorter, but much cleaner
20:03:07  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> this was multiple in same grf <-- NFO allows that, but NML doesn't.
20:03:47  <Eddi|zuHause> but nowadays there's no need for that
20:04:36  <andythenorth> so am I going to preserve leftover cargo then?
20:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause> as the refit lists now properly handle higher numbers of CTT entries
20:04:53  * andythenorth changes the subject abruptly :)
20:05:03  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i see no reason not to.
20:05:18  <andythenorth> me neither, apart from working out the calculation
20:05:23  <andythenorth> I'll finish this soon and pushi
20:05:27  <andythenorth> it *
20:05:57  <Eddi|zuHause> why "work out the calculation"? you have a reason to change it from the existing one?
20:06:59  <andythenorth> I've adjusted how the production is calculated
20:07:04  <andythenorth> should be same final result
20:08:11  <andythenorth> nml ternary, second value is if true, third is false?
20:08:16  <andythenorth> first is condition?
20:08:46  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i haven't confirmed that that's what your calculation does, but it should work roughly like this: you have a calculation o=a/b, which is subject to rounding error. so you save the remainder as it to o'=a%b. then in the next round you can incorporate the remainder again, so it becomes o=(a+o')/b, and o'=(a+o')%b
20:09:01  <andythenorth> yes that's roughly what it does
20:13:22  <Alberth> cond ? true-value : false-value  indeed
20:13:36  <peter1138> Mmm, medium-rare lamb fillet steak..
20:14:15  <peter1138> Somewhat a different beast from the lamb chops cooked to a desert-like dryness that mum used to cook...
20:15:25  <andythenorth> lamb is not like lamb when I was a kid
20:16:58  <peter1138> lol
20:17:07  <peter1138> 1 hour to prepare. 5 minutes to eat.
20:17:24  <peter1138> Well, the lamb was only 10 minutes.
20:17:35  <peter1138> Not a long slow roast for that.
20:17:51  <peter1138> nielsm, are you fixing #7365?
20:19:03  <nielsm> uh at some point yes
20:19:07  <nielsm> busy atm
20:19:08  <andythenorth> hmm
20:19:23  <andythenorth> newgrf debug window displays register values
20:19:28  <andythenorth> option to set them? o_O
20:19:47  <peter1138> Feature request ;)
20:21:52  <andythenorth> imagine the cheating possibilities :)
20:22:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7365: Fix: Fluidsynth should not try to lock sample data in memory
20:29:07  <andythenorth> oof my code fails
20:29:15  <andythenorth> so close, so far
20:35:22  <peter1138> `qwa`2w
20:35:25  <peter1138> Woah
20:37:11  <peter1138> nielsm, made zero difference :(
20:38:12  <nielsm> :(
20:38:30  <peter1138> Tried moving it before new_fluid_synth() and still no dice.
20:41:23  <nielsm> lol
20:41:30  <nielsm> wrong window
20:42:01  <TrueBrain> wait, you are talking with more people besides us?! :(
20:42:03  <TrueBrain> :P
20:49:18  <peter1138> fluidsynth code could do with some comments :p
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20:55:25  <andythenorth> oof does anyone know if FIRS secondary closure code works?
20:55:34  <andythenorth> I never use it, so eh
20:56:03  <nielsm> no idea
20:56:17  <nielsm> it sounds unfun from the description so I never enabled it
20:57:27  <peter1138>
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22:13:36  <peter1138> Hmm, WATERCLASS_DOCK?
22:16:30  <andythenorth> YES
22:16:33  <andythenorth> I have no idea
22:16:41  <andythenorth> hmm all my industries are closing :(
22:17:12  <andythenorth> but then again, I disabled the closure control :P
22:17:24  <peter1138> Well, multiple docks, but...
22:17:31  <andythenorth> YES
22:17:36  <andythenorth> multiple Airports?
22:17:58  <peter1138> It's inefficient, because it checks for a dock... every tile...
22:18:00  <andythenorth> wow, default industry closure behaviour is horrid
22:18:20  <andythenorth> after 5 years my map starts getting emptied
22:18:37  <peter1138> Heh
22:18:45  <peter1138> Yeah, you've made it too easy?
22:18:47  <andythenorth> oh but new industries get built :o
22:19:00  <peter1138> That's a thing, yes.
22:19:06  <andythenorth> yeah I wish I could just tweak the default closure
22:19:11  <michi_cc> Bad DJGPP, pretends to support C++11, ships with a <thread> header, but doesn't even define std::thread.
22:19:13  <peter1138> Can't you?
22:19:15  <andythenorth> instead of having to prevent it, with nothing to over-ride
22:19:17  <peter1138> michi_cc, oof
22:19:37  <andythenorth> maybe I can rethink closure
22:20:17  <michi_cc> So, either no DOS, useless thread_*.cpp files or #ifdefs in various places.
22:20:24  <andythenorth> why should an industry close? o_O
22:20:55  <peter1138> Not being supplied.
22:21:04  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:21:05  <peter1138> Burned down in a fire.
22:21:16  <peter1138> Boycotted by right-wing anti-SJW thugs.
22:22:27  <andythenorth> what if it was just unlucky?
22:22:42  <andythenorth> 'sorry this industry just closed'
22:22:47  <LordAro> Poorly managed.
22:23:06  <LordAro> and, for balance, Boycotted by left-wing SJW thugs
22:23:12  <andythenorth> 'balance'
22:23:27  <LordAro> oh no, i said the 'b' word
22:23:41  <andythenorth> maybe I just make the old FIRS behaviour come back
22:23:46  <andythenorth> 'no closure'
22:23:51  <andythenorth> and do something better in v9000
22:24:09  <peter1138> Oh, I can't add a waterclass :(
22:24:16  <andythenorth> Oh noes
22:24:21  <peter1138> It's only 2 bits and all 4 values are used.
22:24:23  <peter1138> "INVALID" :/
22:24:32  <andythenorth> buy more bits
22:24:36  <andythenorth> screwfix
22:24:51  <peter1138> m1
22:25:30  <peter1138> Extend to 3 bits?
22:26:13  <peter1138> Or scrap this idea...
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22:28:00  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the new water class for?
22:28:29  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc there's usually bit 7 available...
22:28:59  <peter1138> I think I don't want a water class, tbh.
22:29:06  <peter1138> I might just want to use bit 7 by itself.
22:29:26  <peter1138> I need a way to mark tiles as being a docking tile.
22:29:48  <peter1138> Alternatively, I could try making a specific station tile for it.
22:30:17  <andythenorth> anyone know what this is for?  Legacy thing?
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22:30:20  <Samu> i had a pr that got closed about that
22:30:23  <andythenorth> and can I set it to 1, not 5
22:31:44  <Samu> waterclass dock, kekeke
22:32:14  <peter1138> andythenorth, not legacy. It is literally what it says it is.
22:32:22  <Samu> let me search from my list of closed prs
22:32:46  <peter1138> That will take a while, there's a lot of them.
22:33:10  <Samu> got 49 closed pr's dayum
22:33:17  <andythenorth> trying to envisage a reason for distributing 5 units instead of 1 :P
22:33:25  <andythenorth> FIRS is set to 5 currently
22:34:08  <Samu>
22:34:52  <peter1138> fruit/rubber plantations default to 15
22:35:05  <peter1138> cotton candy factory is 30
22:35:12  <peter1138> as are batteries
22:35:49  <peter1138> Samu, that looks wholly not like what I'm doing.
22:36:17  <andythenorth> wonder if that's supposed to simulate slow production cycle
22:36:23  <andythenorth> when prod. multiplier is low
22:36:23  <Samu> :|
22:36:45  <andythenorth> anyway, I set it to 1, see if it kills kittens
22:37:58  <nielsm> as I understand, the amount of cargo returned in each individual prod cb during one loop doesn't really matter, only the sum across the entire loop
22:38:17  <nielsm> so if you can return all the cargo in fewer loop steps, you have better performance
22:38:33  <Samu> The produced cargo will be distributed to stations only after it exceeds this amount.
22:38:39  <Samu> I know what this is
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22:39:36  <Samu> lets say you deliver 2 wood to a sawmill
22:39:53  <Samu> it won't produce 2 goods right away, only when it gets 5 wood
22:41:15  <Samu> if you deliver 2 wood, then later on, 3 wood , it will then transform the wood into 5 goods
22:42:13  <andythenorth> and when it's primary?
22:42:58  <Samu> if it produces really low values, i guess it will wait for the next production cycle
22:43:09  <Samu> not sure
22:43:51  <Samu> it will "stockpile" until it meets a min of 5
22:44:02  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: so we are dropping DOS you say? :P Saves me from creating a docker :)
22:44:59  <TrueBrain> if we drop DOS btw, we can also drop ENABLE_NETWORK stuff :P
22:45:26  <TrueBrain> lot of exceptions for a single target .. but meh
22:45:52  <michi_cc> Depends... stubbing in a dummy std::thread isn't that hard if we really wanted to.
22:47:31  <nielsm> I think i've seen some #ifdef guards for threads...
22:47:47  <michi_cc> But before that can happen, OTTD needs quite some cleanup. We do stuff like acquiring a mutex on the main thread and releasing it on another thread, which, surprise, surprise, makes nice STL asserts.
22:48:11  <TrueBrain> I smell a new project :)
22:49:30  <michi_cc> nielsm: Ideally all our custom thread_* something files could vanish, but if a platform doesn't even define the classes, we'd still need #ifdef's or a custom wrapper class.
22:50:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7363: Lot of small codefixes related to configure
22:50:23  <peter1138> ^ I mean, it worked for me :p
22:50:39  * LordAro looks at irc, sees DorpsGek_II message
22:50:52  * LordAro 's phone buzzes, "ooh, an email"
22:51:01  <LordAro> it is of course, the same message
22:51:03  <peter1138> Don't worry, we've not merged NRT yet.
22:52:47  <andythenorth> 'ooh an email' I think never
22:52:53  <andythenorth> I dread the damn things
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22:54:31  <LordAro> oh sure, it was perhaps more of a "what's my phone buzzing about"
22:54:41  <peter1138> So if I wanted, instead, to make docking tiles be actual station tiles, I'd have to take account of slopes and... things in the way :/
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22:55:06  <andythenorth> oof
22:55:31  <peter1138> Samu's so called 3rd tile, which may current be something other than plain water.
22:55:53  <Samu> :)
22:56:19  <peter1138> It's simple to add a 3rd tile that is actually a station tile.
22:56:37  <peter1138> But not so simple to convert old savegames.
22:57:52  <peter1138> I could cheat and use a bit that's free in every tile type
22:59:32  <Samu> "this savegame cannot be converted. load aborted"
22:59:45  <Samu> or
23:00:05  <Samu> "some docks were removed after savegame load"
23:00:54  <Samu> but what are you trying to do?
23:01:06  <peter1138> load aborted. lol.
23:01:29  <peter1138> I want an efficient way to detect docking tile of a dock.
23:03:34  <andythenorth> let's do more FIRS
23:03:45  <andythenorth> hmm, that's not docks though
23:04:06  <andythenorth> what's the inefficient way peter1138 ?
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23:05:15  <peter1138> Currently it iterates the docking tiles of the destination station to compare it with the pathfinder's current tile.
23:05:28  <peter1138> And that... is for every tile the pathfinder explores.
23:06:23  <peter1138> If the docking tile becomes an actual station tile, then it's a simple "is this the right station" check.
23:06:33  <peter1138> but that has the 3rd-tile issue.
23:07:09  <nielsm> NewDocks time!
23:07:13  <peter1138> That's the one.
23:07:21  <andythenorth> nobody mentioned state machines yet?
23:07:32  <peter1138> andythenorth, no because that's irrelevant.
23:07:44  <peter1138> A state machine would be what you do when you're at the dock.
23:07:56  <peter1138> You still need to find it.
23:07:59  <andythenorth> yair
23:08:14  * nielsm thinks of RCT boat rides
23:08:22  <peter1138> The old old way that bus stops used to use was to preallocate a specific stop to use.
23:08:44  <peter1138> then you just sent a vehicle to a specific tile, and it's easy.
23:08:45  <andythenorth> hmm is cb 37 working with > 3 cargos?
23:09:08  <andythenorth>
23:09:31  <nielsm> it should yes
23:09:47  <nielsm> there isn't any specific nml support for it but I don't think that's needed
23:09:53  <nielsm> but the bitstuffed format has changed
23:10:13  <peter1138> Yes, that uses cargo ids, not bitmaps.
23:10:42  <Samu> can't the pathfinder be given multiple tiles?
23:12:31  <andythenorth> nielsm: interesting result
23:12:36  <Samu> when I was toying with road pathfinder on my ai, i could insert multiple destinations
23:12:40  <andythenorth> I might have it configured wrong though
23:12:52  <Samu> never actually used it though
23:12:53  <nielsm> :P
23:13:05  <andythenorth> the supplied cargos should be manganese (correct) and oxygen
23:13:25  <andythenorth> it's not economy aware, and doesn't use labels
23:13:31  <andythenorth> just relies on positions
23:13:36  <andythenorth> so might be my error
23:13:43  <peter1138> Er
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23:14:17  <nielsm> you should first extract bits 0..7 and compare against 0 and 1 (input/output)
23:14:48  <nielsm> actually maybe compare bits 0..15 in one go if you only need to handle a few cases
23:15:32  <nielsm> then after selecting the display case, compare bits 16..23 against cargotype("COAL") or whatever
23:15:40  <nielsm> to select the final string
23:15:58  <andythenorth> ok that's quite an advance on the original approach
23:16:49  <nielsm> probably 0..15 against 0x0100 for accepted cargo in the industry's own status window
23:17:05  <nielsm> and the rest might not need to be handled at all?
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23:18:04  <andythenorth> original FIRS code just checks
23:18:05  <andythenorth> getbits(extra_callback_info2, 0, 8)
23:18:22  <andythenorth> and then chooses a text if any cargo has been delivered for that cargo num
23:19:36  <andythenorth> what sets prop  1A flag 18
23:19:38  * andythenorth looks it up
23:19:41  <peter1138> bits 0..7 used to contin the slot number.
23:19:45  <peter1138> *contain
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23:20:15  <peter1138> 0-2 were inputs, 3 & 4 were outputs
23:20:29  <andythenorth> yeah the new format replaces
23:21:00  <andythenorth> oof me eyes are going, it's bedtime
23:21:05  <peter1138> Now you don't get the slot, you get the grf-local cargo type in bits 16..23
23:21:07  <andythenorth> me / my /s
23:21:18  <peter1138> and bits 0..7 contain the in vs out
23:21:23  <andythenorth> yes
23:21:31  <andythenorth> I need to set the flag on 1A first
23:22:13  <andythenorth> hmm
23:22:21  <andythenorth> oh yes, that's not in the nml docs yet :)
23:22:21  <andythenorth> ok
23:22:29  <peter1138> Shouldn't that be set already if you're doing 16-in-out alreadY/
23:23:13  <andythenorth> IND_FLAG_LONG_CARGO_TYPE_LISTS
23:23:13  <nielsm> it's not strictly needed no
23:23:43  <nielsm> but maybe nml should just set it by default now
23:23:48  <peter1138> Yeah, if you're able to do 16-in/16-out, then nml should've just set it/
23:24:03  <nielsm> I think I need to get sleep (too)
23:24:05  <nielsm> gn
23:24:18  <peter1138> If that bit isn't set, then itwill only do 3/2
23:24:35  <peter1138> gn
23:24:40  <andythenorth> bye
23:25:04  <andythenorth> hmm FIRS has crappy support for spec_flags, never needed them in industries
23:25:08  <peter1138> Samu, yeah, the problem is testing multiple tiles every time it moves to a new tile.
23:25:11  <andythenorth> job for tomorrow
23:25:38  <peter1138> Anyway, shouldn't nml handle all this testing bits for you?
23:25:48  <peter1138> Or is that a lol?
23:26:03  <andythenorth> it might be in nml now
23:26:07  <andythenorth> I haven't got that far yet
23:26:20  <peter1138> o_O
23:26:25  <andythenorth> 'old' FIRS had to check the bits, because nml wasn't maintained for this
23:26:56  <andythenorth>
23:27:50  <peter1138> Yeah, and this is why "nmlc should allow old stuff to work" just won't work.
23:28:46  <andythenorth> nmlc needs to be quite scorched earth
23:29:39  <andythenorth> I can't see an nml commit for cb 37 changes
23:31:21  <andythenorth> should be Dec 2017 or so, near this
23:32:10  *** nielsm has quit IRC
23:32:29  <andythenorth> also super defo bedtime
23:32:32  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
23:34:11  <peter1138> Ok, so m1 bit 7
23:34:18  <peter1138> Set if tile is docking tile.

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