Log for #openttd on 22nd March 2019:
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01:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i guess it just has never come up before
01:43:17  <Eddi|zuHause> "/* Forward declare these; can't do 'struct X' in functions as older GCCs barf on that */" <-- and then it uses "struct X" in function headers anyway?
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02:00:53  <Eddi|zuHause> "proc(ini, _settings,         "patches",  &_settings_newgame);" <-- that doesn't sound right
02:01:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7380: Feature: Multi-tile docks.
02:03:15  <Eddi|zuHause> "/* XXX - wtf is this?? (group override?) */" <-- now we're getting in deep :p
02:05:37  <peter1138> :-)
02:07:22  <Eddi|zuHause> case SDT_INTLIST: <-- i think this is the place
02:08:54  <peter1138> Not really.
02:09:13  <Eddi|zuHause> "case SDT_NUMX:" has a call to "IsSignedVarMemType"
02:09:21  <Eddi|zuHause> SDT_INTLIST is missing that
02:09:56  <peter1138> MakeIntList
02:10:03  <peter1138> settings.cpp:277
02:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
02:11:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not checking for signedness at the seprintf line
02:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> unconditionally using %d there
02:11:53  <peter1138> v is also an int.
02:11:54  <Eddi|zuHause> not %d/%u like with SDT_NUMX
02:12:12  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't matter
02:19:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly
02:20:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that should work
02:30:24  <peter1138> Think?
02:30:34  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i have no test case :)
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02:40:36  <peter1138> colour_presets = 2337333374,2958798335,2504540827,2509980315,1451692562,707801136,3640411317,2077322240,3636918595,3640253251,3633053951,2885685385,0,0,0,0
02:40:45  <peter1138> I mean, it works, but it's not exactly... better? :pp
02:40:57  <Eddi|zuHause> well, but it's... correct
02:41:04  <peter1138> Also, loading doesn't working
02:41:21  <peter1138> Gets loaded as int.
02:41:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i was trying to decipher loading
02:42:00  <Eddi|zuHause> loading numbers has some special case for U32
02:42:12  <Eddi|zuHause> same kind of special case needed for list, i guess
02:42:17  <peter1138> if (sizeof(int) < sizeof(long)) v = ClampToI32(v);
02:42:24  <peter1138> Hm
02:44:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that function needs passing of the VarType
02:56:41  <Eddi|zuHause> so in StringToVal it parses stuff with strtoul
03:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even see how that handles signed correctly, unless it's by accident
03:02:38  <Eddi|zuHause> also, that function seems to be locale-dependent?
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03:09:55  <Eddi|zuHause> do we want to use std::strtoull?
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03:11:45  <Eddi|zuHause> or we just scrap the Clamp and hope it'll be alright?
03:16:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly
03:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm completely unsure about that...
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03:38:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly
03:38:12  <Eddi|zuHause> now i'm getting completely crazy
03:40:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that one's incorrect
03:42:48  <Eddi|zuHause> also, it's missing a file
03:43:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly
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04:30:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly
04:34:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly
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07:08:06  <andythenorth> moin
07:15:36  <peter1138> Isn't it
07:24:46  * LordAro wonders when Eddi|zuHause sleeps
07:26:42  <Pikka> thursday
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08:25:32  <peter1138> Hm.
08:37:13  <planetmaker> moin
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10:18:37  <Pikka> boin
10:26:58  <andythenorth> pikka bob
10:27:06  <Pikka> oui
10:28:34  <andythenorth> such UKRS 99?
10:28:44  <andythenorth> or civil pax?
10:29:35  <Pikka> one of those
10:29:42  <Pikka> or something else
10:29:47  <andythenorth> I should FIRS
10:29:54  <andythenorth> not now though
10:30:53  <Pikka> yes
10:30:57  <Pikka> later
11:18:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] planetmaker updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019
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11:32:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019
11:32:41  <Eddi|zuHause> (sorry for sniping like this)
11:34:34  <planetmaker> I actually disagree that baseset and tools should be under NewGRF. I made the choice deliberately
11:34:48  <planetmaker> should we start an edit-war?
11:34:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. definitely
11:34:57  <peter1138> OpenGFX isn't a NewGRF.
11:35:18  <planetmaker> with tools it can be argued that most (all?) are newgrf-related
11:35:20  <peter1138> Is OpenGFX built with nml?
11:35:22  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway. i was advised to start each sentence on a new line, so diffs would be easier to read
11:35:24  <planetmaker> but basesets are different
11:35:27  <andythenorth> baseset is baseset
11:35:31  <planetmaker> yes, OpenGFX is written in NML
11:35:36  <andythenorth> it's an essential dependency
11:35:52  <andythenorth> it's incidental that it's implemented as newgrf
11:36:19  <planetmaker> it's a collection of grf and NewGRF.
11:36:23  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: ok, but then scrap the "NewGRF" entry, and call "Tools" "NewGRF Tools"?
11:36:27  <andythenorth> the newgrf header should contain: spec + toolchain entries
11:36:40  <planetmaker> there's catcodec which is a sound tool
11:36:41  <andythenorth> ultimately, it's just a blog post
11:36:53  <andythenorth> so ultimately it's blah blah and classic bikeshedding rabbit hole
11:36:55  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: now you're splitting hairs
11:37:24  <planetmaker> nml is a tool for basesets and newgrfs. nforenum, grfcodec as well. and musa a tool for all kind of content
11:37:34  <andythenorth> if I wrote the post, I'd put 'Content APIs' and dump everything under that, which would confuse everyone
11:37:38  <andythenorth> but I would be correct
11:37:45  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, not quite. But this distinction drove my choice for separate topic
11:37:55  <planetmaker> hehe
11:38:34  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: then it's "## mod support" and "### GRF Tools"
11:38:48  <andythenorth> everything about no coherent vision, GS vs NewGRF etc is because of historical evolution of content APIs
11:38:51  <Eddi|zuHause> (wording needs more work)
11:38:56  <planetmaker> or just one heading: NewGRFs, baseset & Tools
11:39:27  <andythenorth> my rationale is that basesets are content
11:39:29  <andythenorth> not content APIs
11:39:34  <andythenorth> so split them
11:39:40  <andythenorth> but eh, peak bikeshedding achieved
11:39:53  <planetmaker> yellow with violet dots please
11:39:57  <andythenorth> introduce joke: "how many people does it take to write a dev blog post"
11:40:07  <andythenorth> dunno what the punchline is
11:40:17  <andythenorth> probably "we don't know, it's not finished yet"
11:40:48  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: imho, the structure with both things being subgroups of one category is better. just need to find a correct name for the category
11:42:13  <planetmaker> I can well imagine to see a GS and AI section appearing some time as well
11:42:41  <planetmaker> or scripts
11:43:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019
11:44:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019
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11:55:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] planetmaker commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019
12:01:28  <andythenorth> content API
12:06:27  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: imho discussing whether to call it the "NewGRF" section is on a similar level as convincing people to not say "Holland" or "America"
12:11:58  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i mean, we could call it the Bananas section, but people would confuse that with the hosting service
12:13:26  <andythenorth> "Content APIs"
12:13:27  <andythenorth> :P
12:13:41  <andythenorth> mostly because our own thinking is distorted by historical facts
12:14:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yo, check your privilege?
12:14:45  <andythenorth> is that a missed reference? :P
12:15:05  <Eddi|zuHause> probably
12:15:35  <andythenorth> I did actually check my privilege once
12:15:45  <andythenorth> I am ahead, but not the most ahead
12:16:01  <Eddi|zuHause> there's always someone further ahead
12:21:21  <andythenorth> someone must be the most ahead
12:21:30  <andythenorth> probably Berlusconi?
12:21:39  <Eddi|zuHause> no, because it's non-transitive
12:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like nobody is ever at the top of the food chain
12:22:28  <Eddi|zuHause> because it's not a chain
12:22:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a simplification
12:24:14  <planetmaker> I would never have called a script "NewGRF". And just because some or many people use words incorrectly, it doesn't mean we have to use bad wording, too
12:26:11  <LordAro> "mods"
12:26:20  <planetmaker> I'd have no problem with using that term
12:26:33  <planetmaker> Mods & Tools
12:29:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i already suggested going in that direction.
12:30:15  <Eddi|zuHause> however, we should come up with a generic-enough term to put it into the template for every future blog post
12:30:32  <planetmaker> are basesets mods? :P
12:30:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
12:30:59  <planetmaker> they are rather the baseline...
12:31:03  <planetmaker> hence the name
12:31:07  <Eddi|zuHause> they're still mods
12:31:23  <planetmaker> no, they don't modify anything
12:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they do
12:31:36  <Eddi|zuHause> you can modify them
12:31:41  <planetmaker> you mean they make an uncomplete game complete?
12:31:52  <peter1138> They don't... modify the gameplay though.
12:32:02  <peter1138> "Just" graphics.
12:32:04  <Eddi|zuHause> no, they modify how the game looks
12:32:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that is still modify
12:32:21  <planetmaker> without baseset the game is not a game. Just broken code
12:32:26  <peter1138> Should I enter the Euromillions before I'm not allowed to? :p
12:32:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but there are multiple basesets
12:32:54  <planetmaker> so?
12:33:02  <peter1138> Mostly... not very pretty.
12:33:05  <andythenorth> eh ok, so I was drafting new website words this week
12:33:33  <andythenorth> "mods" "add-ons" "packs" "content" "dlc" "customisations" ??
12:33:43  <peter1138> Funny how you give tools to make it super gorgeous, and they come up with... aBase
12:33:53  <planetmaker> graphics, sounds, scripts & tools
12:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: doesn't sound very generic
12:34:14  <andythenorth> most games have mods or packs or DLC
12:34:17  <peter1138> Still waiting for pikkabase
12:34:21  <andythenorth> 'most' => the ones I see my kids playing :P
12:34:30  <andythenorth> not scientific most
12:34:50  <peter1138> But I guess that was the one that was the attempted kickstarter.
12:34:52  <andythenorth> mods tend to change behaviour
12:34:59  <andythenorth> packs tend to be graphics skins etc
12:35:06  <andythenorth> DLC tends to be ££$$€€
12:35:13  <andythenorth> but there are no fixed rules
12:35:15  <peter1138> So basesets are packs, and NewGRFs are mods.
12:35:27  <andythenorth> ["fuck knows" emoji]
12:35:40  <andythenorth> my draft website title for all this crap is "Extend"
12:35:53  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, anything missing in the list of "graphics, sounds, scripts & tools"?
12:35:59  <planetmaker> that it is not generic enough?
12:36:10  <peter1138> Extensions implies stuff that would need source code changes.
12:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the problem is that it's a list.
12:36:28  <andythenorth> I wrote "Extend the base game with downloadable content, including new vehicles, industries, stations, houses, AIs, heightmaps, scenarios, gamescripts and more"
12:36:30  <planetmaker> it's not a problem if it's comprehensive
12:36:31  <andythenorth> it's horrible
12:36:35  <andythenorth> but it's all horrible anyway
12:36:44  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it should be more concise
12:36:51  * andythenorth is solving a different related problem, if that's not obvious
12:36:57  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: for a generic section headline
12:37:00  <andythenorth> the website is getting an update :P
12:37:20  <planetmaker> it's quite concise. Much more concise and descriptive than "NewGRFs" or "Mods"
12:37:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i disagree.
12:37:57  <andythenorth> for the core game, I wrote ""Addictive retro gaming.  Free to play always.  Highly-rated open source game.  Single player.  Online multiplayer.  Sandbox or competitive."
12:38:26  <andythenorth> for Develop I wrote "Contribute to OpenTTD.  Join us on irc and GitHub.  Ideal for experienced who want a hobby project, and for students in computer science and similar studies who want to improve skills on a successful real-world project"
12:38:40  <andythenorth> meh
12:38:45  <peter1138> FOR EXPERIENCED
12:38:51  <planetmaker> hm
12:39:06  <andythenorth> PROGRAMMERS
12:39:09  <andythenorth> no
12:39:10  <planetmaker> I'd not exclude people who just want to fix their personal scratch :)
12:39:16  <andythenorth> EXPERIENCED PETER'S
12:39:19  <andythenorth> that's what I meant
12:39:28  <andythenorth> maybe without '
12:39:45  <Pikka> maybe
12:39:56  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's not words i would put on a website
12:40:34  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's a free opportunity for you to do better :)
12:40:42  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you're projecting too much of your own mindset onto the random reader of the website
12:41:10  <andythenorth> yes, I am a human writing words
12:41:30  <andythenorth> and acceleration in Earth's gravitational field is about 9.8m/s
12:41:36  <andythenorth> some things are just what they are
12:41:41  <andythenorth> propose better? :P
12:41:48  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: for some unforseen reason it's much easier to find someone else's words bad than to come up with better words yourself
12:41:54  <andythenorth> isn't it :P
12:43:27  <andythenorth> just write the most lolz thing
12:45:00  <planetmaker> Contribute to OpenTTD. The project is run by volunteers from all kind of backgrounds. Join us on irc and Github and have a look how you can contribute
12:45:19  <planetmaker> and a link to updated wiki page(s)?
12:48:01  <Eddi|zuHause> is that an oxymoron? :p
12:48:52  <planetmaker> well. we can play catch-22. Or start somewhere
12:49:29  <peter1138> Is it lunch time yet?
12:49:32  <peter1138> Oh!
12:49:33  <andythenorth> peter1138: late
12:49:40  <andythenorth> I already had crumpets
12:49:45  <andythenorth> and something I've forgotten
12:49:46  <planetmaker> same procedure as *every* time: it's tea time :P
12:49:49  <peter1138> I've got a... er... salad :p
12:49:51  <andythenorth> now it's mac and cheese
12:49:53  <andythenorth> then salad
12:50:03  <planetmaker> :P
12:50:11  <andythenorth> oof
12:50:13  <andythenorth> nope
12:50:27  <planetmaker> crunchy when served with a crust of cheese
12:50:59  <andythenorth> "Contribute to OpenTTD.  Find us on irc, github,  and by the bikesheds"
12:53:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019
12:53:34  <planetmaker> bring extra paint and blueprints
12:53:56  <andythenorth> "Contribute: nitpicking brings the quality"
12:54:12  <andythenorth> "Contribute: github and much lolz"
12:56:47  <peter1138> :p
12:57:02  <Eddi|zuHause> bäh, greeen...
13:00:26  <planetmaker> rucola... not my preferred choice. But looks good :)
13:02:01  <Eddi|zuHause> ... "wer hat's erfunden?" :p
13:07:32  <andythenorth> peter1138: such jealous
13:07:40  <andythenorth> we should start some kind of social network
13:07:44  <andythenorth> for lunch photos
13:07:45  <andythenorth> maybe cats
13:07:54  <Pikka> any time is tiffin time, planetmaker
13:07:57  <planetmaker> yummi cats. Fried with calamari
13:09:44  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i like it
13:10:49  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i hope you don't mean the green :p
13:14:56  <peter1138> What's wrong with green?
13:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it's... green?
13:23:17  <Eddi|zuHause> green is the colour of poison. everyone knows that
13:25:33  <peter1138> It's the colour of low-effort healthy food.
13:26:09  <peter1138> andythenorth, about that...  ;(
13:26:25  <peter1138> Ooh that reminds me, I have haddock tonight again :D
13:27:14  <andythenorth> square plates: big game
13:27:30  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: most of us overcome our fear of green by the age of about 15
13:27:43  <andythenorth> my kids thoroughly distrust it, they are younger
13:27:57  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: too many traumatic experiences in that time
13:28:01  <andythenorth> I didn't trust green until I was about 32
13:29:01  <peter1138> So what veg do you eat if you shun green?
13:29:25  <peter1138> Bratwursts and frikadellen don't count as veg.
13:30:25  <peter1138> Oh that frivilous thing passed 3 million.
13:32:24  <andythenorth> carrots
13:32:29  <andythenorth> sweetcorn
13:34:21  <peter1138> I rounded it off with a piece of simnel cake... more than doubled the carolies I bet.
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13:38:44  <planetmaker> bratwurst and frikallen are secondary vegies
13:39:10  <planetmaker> vegitarians eat my food's food :P
13:44:28  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: your blog post update :)
13:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
13:45:12  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i've had that thought for like 2 months now
13:56:46  <peter1138> Hmm
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14:26:05  <peter1138> Hi
14:27:02  <nielsm> lo
14:27:14  <peter1138> Are you aware of k-d tree crashes?
14:28:19  <nielsm> yes... I ought to look at some code some time soon
14:28:42  <nielsm> been burying myself in Satisfactory for the past several days
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15:11:19  <Samu> hi
15:11:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 commented on pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019
15:21:43  <Samu> hi
15:50:54  <Pikka> hihi
15:51:17  <Samu> hey pikka, i'd like your ai to be able to build more than 500 rvs
15:51:48  <Pikka> is that the current maximum?
15:51:53  * Pikka checks
15:51:57  <Samu> i think so
15:53:12  <Pikka> huh
15:53:23  <Pikka> well if you change the max_value in the info.nut, that should probably do it
15:54:01  <Samu> oh me?
15:54:58  <Pikka> well I can increase it for you in the next version, but in the meantime... :)
15:55:18  <Samu> 5000 for all vehicle types
15:55:57  <Pikka> that's a lot of buses
15:56:30  <Samu> i rarely see it building ships, maybe i'm trying too distant routes
15:57:16  <Pikka> it does rarely build ships... the next version will have reworked vehicle logic which may make it build more
15:58:01  <Pikka> but in any case the routefinding between docks is very simple, so it's unlikely to build routes that aren't straight across a lake or straight along an edge of the map :)
16:02:29  <Samu> min town population of 500
16:03:04  <Pikka> that's already the minimum value, isn't it?
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16:03:22  <Samu> yes, but I'm looking at it
16:03:32  <Samu> can you come into this game?
16:03:44  <Samu>
16:04:20  <Samu> he builds bus stops in 2 towns, but doesn't build the buses ?
16:04:51  <Pikka> are you the server? can you see the debug log?
16:04:59  <Samu> yes I can
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16:05:06  <Pikka> civi's is reasonably human-readable :)
16:05:32  <Pikka> but I can see from what it's done that it hasn't found space to build 3 stops, which is the minimum it needs to build a bus route
16:05:42  <Pikka> next cycle round it will remove the stops
16:05:51  <Samu> ah, 3
16:06:02  <Samu> yeah, those little details
16:07:26  <Samu> it keeps connecting towns by roads, but without any source of income, it's not that efficient, is it?
16:07:37  <Samu> I was expecting buses by now
16:09:02  <Pikka> well, that's partly because you've set the minimum town size below the default. The towns it's started in are too small to place enough bus stops.
16:09:35  <Samu> oh, I see, so that's how it works, it needs to really place all 3 stops
16:10:05  <Pikka> ideally it places 5, but 3 is the minimum it wants
16:10:50  <Pikka> I expect he will build a train soon though, once he gets to a town with a suitable industry
16:12:17  <Samu> well, it still has 412k money to burn
16:13:44  <Samu> connecting mendhead, heh, my ai is also there pathfinding
16:14:10  <Samu> my ai pathfinds too slow, 3 years per route
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16:18:08  <Pikka> okay, so, without being able to see the log, I predict the next thing he's going to do is connect charfingbourne, then try and build a railway to the gold mine at tronfingfield, which will probably fail because it's too wiggly around the water. Unless your ai connects mendhead to its network, in which case all the connected towns will be added to civi's network too and it might try to build somewhere else :)
16:19:10  <Pikka> it picked a really bad place to start, tiny towns, no food processing...
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16:32:17  <Pikka> or it could just keep retrying building bus stops in those towns :)
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16:37:31  <Alberth> o
16:37:36  <Alberth> +/
16:42:23  <Samu> says it's connecting narfingford, where is it
16:43:02  <Samu> oh i see it, that's a bit far
16:47:23  <Pikka> I guess it wants the power station
16:48:08  <Samu> my ai will probably fail pathfinding
16:48:14  <Samu> the station is on a island
16:48:49  <Samu> wants to connect gundwood to mendhead
16:51:03  <Samu> it has ~4 more months to try
16:51:09  <Samu> it is likely to fail
16:51:30  <Pikka> I should think so, from that island
16:53:33  <Samu> Last loop  took 359 days
16:53:58  <Samu> updating list of connected towns
16:54:12  <Samu> a big list of towns is connected.
16:54:21  <Samu> not big, just 10 or so
16:55:20  <Samu> planting trees around dindingworth
16:55:31  <Samu> can't afford to build a railway :o
16:55:53  <Samu> was trying a coal transport by rail, but gave up
16:56:25  <Samu> says it couldn't find a suitable locomotive :o
16:56:41  <Samu> maybe it's true, let me check
16:56:55  <Samu> yep, i forgot about it
16:57:02  <Samu> no trains
16:57:08  <Samu> maybe in 1944 ?
16:58:05  <Samu> what's the release date of wills-2-8-0 ?
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16:58:39  <Samu> ewww 1945 according to wiki
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17:00:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7200: Change: Allow locks under bridges
17:01:27  <peter1138> :-)
17:01:32  <Samu> @calc 1352 / 365
17:01:32  <DorpsGek> Samu: 3.70410958904
17:01:39  <Samu> nearly 4 years
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17:07:45  <peter1138> Ok I need to go and get dog food.
17:07:58  <peter1138> But should I cycle or drive?
17:08:19  <peter1138> 17:08... gonna be busy
17:08:55  <Samu> depends on weathe
17:08:56  <Samu> r
17:10:53  <Eddi|zuHause> if you're in any vincinity to a city at this time of day, cycling will pretty much always be faster :p
17:11:45  *** Gumle2 has quit IRC
17:12:15  <peter1138> Nah, I live in a town.
17:12:32  <peter1138> Hmm, I should check if Aldi have any interesting offers :p
17:13:38  <peter1138> Cast iron tagine? Do I need one?
17:14:24  <peter1138> "Online exclusive" well then...
17:16:04  <Samu> CivilAI has £233k to burn, less than half
17:16:08  <Samu> hmm
17:16:59  <Samu> LuDiAI AfterFix finally made the 2nd route
17:17:48  <Samu> finally a bus!
17:17:55  <Samu> CivilAI did it
17:19:20  <Samu> also placed a dock
17:19:29  <Samu> but no ship
17:22:15  <Pikka> hooray
17:22:43  <Pikka> yes, it's not going to build a ship to any of those docks... :)
17:22:59  <Pikka> but they're nice decoration :P next version it's limited to 2 docks per town btw
17:23:12  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
17:32:31  <Pikka> hmm, maybe I should set the minimum town size to 1000, it wastes a lot of time trying to build in those too-small towns ;)
17:32:40  * Pikka gnight
17:32:51  *** Pikka has quit IRC
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17:38:14  <Eddi|zuHause> ... in what world does aldi ever have interesting offers?
17:55:43  <Alberth> in the world of aldi marketing?
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18:41:11  <Wolf01> o/
18:41:51  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:53:05  <Alberth> o/
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19:13:46  <peter1138> Yeah yeah
19:15:29  <peter1138> What do I want to do?
19:25:36  <andythenorth> rewrite nml?
19:25:41  <andythenorth> 3CC?
19:25:42  <peter1138> No thanks.
19:25:45  <andythenorth> vehicle variants?
19:25:45  <peter1138> No thanks.
19:25:50  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe.
19:26:45  <peter1138> merge nrt?
19:29:44  <andythenorth> you didn't already? :o
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19:38:51  <LordAro> andythenorth: no, 5CC
19:44:11  <frosch123> @calc 0x100000
19:44:11  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 1048576
19:44:21  <frosch123> ttdp did not have enough sprites for that
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19:47:28  <peter1138> I have a patch for 32 company colours.
19:47:39  <peter1138> Dynamic generation is quite simple.
19:50:32  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
19:54:01  <peter1138> But probably RGB colours is more interesting ;)
19:55:13  <frosch123> <- possibly 8 bpp sprites could use separate CC layers  with alpha as well
19:55:53  <frosch123> andy can also do 5cc via layers
20:05:52  *** circ-user-3HYVs has joined #openttd
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20:09:29  <andythenorth> IT IS NOT THE SAME
20:09:52  <andythenorth> peter1138 hasn't made a livery-per-layer chooser yet
20:09:53  *** debdog has joined #openttd
20:09:56  <andythenorth> he should
20:10:02  <peter1138> Wut
20:11:07  <andythenorth> best feature ever
20:14:13  <peter1138> Hmm
20:15:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
20:15:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
20:16:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
20:17:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
20:19:49  <peter1138> Little Brudingstone (City)
20:19:53  <peter1138> Uh huh
20:21:10  <peter1138> Hmm. Loading indicators... are they handled by k-d tree?
20:21:46  <peter1138> Oh wait, I'm in the vector PR.
20:24:34  <peter1138> Yeah.
20:25:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
20:25:55  <peter1138> Crap, that beer ran out :-(
20:26:03  <peter1138> I bet LordAro's gone off to the pub.
20:27:27  <LordAro> peter1138: correct, actuallly
20:27:41  <LordAro> but for cycle planning purposes!
20:28:19  <peter1138> Good plan.
20:28:30  <peter1138> I could check what the plan is tomorrow.
20:29:00  <peter1138> Oh, some event that needs a ticket that I don't have.
20:29:03  <frosch123> do you have beer tanker trailers for your bike?
20:29:34  <peter1138> Ah, it's a Rapha ride. Bloody expensive, them Rapha peeps.
20:30:08  <peter1138> Hmm, 7.30. Do I want to leave at 7.30 again?
20:30:12  <LordAro> peter1138: anything exciting? i'm probably going out tomorrow to test my saddlebag
20:30:15  <LordAro> peter1138: oof
20:30:21  <LordAro> frosch123: sounds heavy
20:30:38  <peter1138> "Along with exploring our local countryside, each ride will provide the chance to explore local bakeries and cafés as we (one by one) sample the delights on offer."
20:30:46  <peter1138> Well, I mean, cafes are pretty exciting.
20:30:49  <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess the new xkcd was inspired by,%204th%20Mar%202183.png
20:30:56  <peter1138> But I tend to not bother on the fast rides.
20:30:59  <LordAro> that does sound good
20:32:04  <peter1138> I could just sign up and then not bother. Need to register but it's free.
20:37:34  <peter1138> Normal ride is at 9am anyway
20:37:40  <peter1138> No stops.
20:44:05  <andythenorth> lolz panama canal
20:51:10  <peter1138> I ate a cookie as well :/
20:57:26  <andythenorth> ouch
20:57:34  <andythenorth> those 16 cargo nml docs
20:59:16  *** DrSegfault has joined #openttd
20:59:37  <peter1138> What's a doc?
21:01:11  <DrSegfault> I have some stations which are shorter, and in rare cases long trains stop there (due to some redirections/bypasses), causing very long traffic jams. Is there a way to let trains not stop at stations where they do not fit in?
21:01:15  <DrSegfault> Maybe an option?
21:01:40  <peter1138> Yeah, use non-stop orders.
21:02:09  <peter1138> Assuming it's an implicit orders
21:02:11  <peter1138> -s
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21:02:55  <DrSegfault> peter1138: I could, but I have ~500 trains which don't use non-stop orders... :p
21:03:06  <DrSegfault> So much work to change them all
21:03:09  <peter1138> And... you didn't use shared orders?
21:03:54  <DrSegfault> Well, I did. But even then, some trains have like 100 stations, and their timetable looks clearer if you don't specify every single one of them
21:04:43  <peter1138> hmm
21:04:57  <peter1138> you'd need to put in an order before and after the offending station
21:05:05  <peter1138> have you considered just extending them? :p
21:06:06  <DrSegfault> I don't want to turn some rural 3-stations into 7-stations, that would look weird
21:06:07  <m3henry> Lordaro: size() == 0 was something I was hoping to do in another PR
21:07:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
21:10:39  *** Alberth has left #openttd
21:13:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
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21:41:14  <TrueBrain> <- now publishes 0.5.5, and NSIS uses that too now
21:43:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #65: Add: Monthly Dev Post of April 2019
21:44:50  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: <- why did you request my review? I know nothing about C++11 :D
21:46:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7379: Codechange: Use C++11 functions for threading
21:46:25  <TrueBrain> I am sure LordAro was about to approve it :P
21:46:30  <LordAro> :<
21:46:41  <TrueBrain> you weren't? :D
21:47:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7396: Fix: Saving SDT_INTLIST handle unsigned values properly
21:47:39  <LordAro> i've not looked at it in any great detail yet
21:49:43  <TrueBrain> I am afraid you are one of the few knowledgeable enough to say anything useful about it :)
21:49:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
21:50:05  <TrueBrain> 11 backport-requested PRs .. guess I can do that tomorrow
21:50:09  <TrueBrain> I understood you wanted a RC2?
21:50:26  <LordAro> given it's a week until 04/01, seems desirable
21:50:38  <LordAro> but i fear i know very little about std::thread other than "if it works, it works"
21:50:52  <michi_cc> I'd think with 11 (or more backports) a RC is prudent.
21:51:11  <TrueBrain> so approve it and go go go? :D
21:51:15  <LordAro> things could be backported without making an RC, of course ;)
21:52:03  <TrueBrain> I am fine with an RC
21:52:07  <TrueBrain> I was just double checking
21:52:15  <LordAro> :)
21:52:23  <TrueBrain> nielsm: in general I am not a fan of backporting 'add' PRs: . Do we really want to backport this?
21:52:52  <LordAro> TrueBrain: given it *could* be helpful with debugging...
21:53:01  <LordAro> emphasis on the *could*
21:53:02  <TrueBrain> yes; many features could be useful :)
21:53:05  <TrueBrain> but we have to be careful :D
21:53:06  <michi_cc> Well, anything that is not merged in master should not be backported :)
21:53:13  <TrueBrain> that for sure ;)
21:53:32  <TrueBrain> but I like the preselection ofc :)
21:53:33  <peter1138> Yeah I don't think that is a backport candidate.
21:53:52  <LordAro> mm
21:53:55  * LordAro unlabels
21:54:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
21:54:34  <peter1138> #7365 doesn't fix anything so no point in backporting it.
21:54:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7366: Add: List recently executed commands in crashlog output.
21:55:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
21:55:31  <TrueBrain> any chance or any version of it lands before tomorrow?
21:56:06  <LordAro> peter1138: ^ ?
21:56:53  <TrueBrain> I don't understand the PR .. why is a client adding AIs?
21:56:55  <TrueBrain> feels weird
21:57:56  <TrueBrain> smells like another bug, where this is fixing the sympthons
21:58:34  <peter1138> I believe the server runs the AI but the client needs to know about the new company slot? Not sure.
21:58:46  <peter1138> Might well be the wrong way about it.
21:59:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
21:59:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
21:59:10  <TrueBrain> how I read it, the server creates an AI, and when the command is executed, it revalidates again if it really should, or something
21:59:40  <TrueBrain> for this, it broadcasts to all the clients the max ai setting every time ..
22:00:54  <TrueBrain> so all clients + server can receive a command they all dismiss
22:01:02  <TrueBrain> this feels wrong
22:01:33  <TrueBrain> "ah, the server told us to do something, but given what I know now, I am going to completely ignore him"
22:01:36  <TrueBrain> slippery slope :D
22:02:01  <glx> yeah server should just discard before sending it to clients
22:02:33  <glx> well validate :)
22:02:50  <peter1138> I think it's because test can succeed even on the server due to the command being queued anyway.
22:03:13  <peter1138> So I guess it's wrong if test succeeded and exec fails.
22:03:40  <glx> of course test and exec should have the same result
22:04:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7376: Fix 001257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer.
22:04:48  <TrueBrain> the more I look at it, the more I am sure this is one huge hack
22:04:57  <TrueBrain> "it does the job" kind of solution
22:05:26  <peter1138> Maybe does.
22:05:41  <glx> BTW it seems original code is wrong too, there a check returning error after the early non exec return
22:05:57  <peter1138> Better solution: send the number of AIs you want to start in one command.
22:06:07  <peter1138> Maybue
22:06:11  <peter1138> I dunno :p
22:06:34  <TrueBrain> I dunno either; I just know I don't like this solution at all :P
22:06:45  <peter1138> cmake fails with kdevelop, due to a bug in cmake/kdevelop
22:06:45  <glx> probably never triggered check but it feels wrong
22:07:07  <TrueBrain> he references a commit fix which does not exist; excellent
22:07:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7081: Change: [Linkgraph] Pause the game when linkgraph jobs lag (#6470)
22:07:25  <LordAro> there was also something mentioned about how 5 AIs are started instead of 4 genereally, i think
22:07:28  <LordAro> i'm really not sure
22:07:53  <peter1138> Yeah, something about max number of queued commands?
22:08:06  <LordAro> (not just in multiplayer, i mean)
22:08:10  <peter1138> It's not really a huge issue.
22:08:11  <LordAro> Samu: care to elaborate?
22:08:16  <peter1138> Most people are not using AIs in multiplayer
22:08:25  <peter1138> So I think it's safe to ignore as a backport item
22:08:37  <TrueBrain> <- caused by this
22:08:44  <TrueBrain> which indeed has a loop, which causes problems
22:09:06  <TrueBrain> easy solutions range from: only start AIs 1 per day
22:09:11  <TrueBrain> 1 per tick
22:10:28  <TrueBrain> backports with more than one commit are a bit annoying .. it is not easy to automate if that was rebased or squashed into master :P
22:11:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 requested changes for pull request #7376: Fix 001257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer.
22:11:03  <Samu> uh?
22:11:38  <LordAro> Samu: please precisely explain the issue that #7376 fixes
22:11:45  <LordAro> and whether it only affects multiplayer
22:11:54  <Samu> it only affects multiplayer
22:12:02  <peter1138> LordAro, "No description provided" ;)
22:12:05  <Samu> it is due to commands per frame setting
22:12:21  <Samu> it can delay execution of commands by another tick
22:13:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:14:28  <glx> TrueBrain: <-- better ?
22:14:55  <TrueBrain> glx: 1000% :)
22:14:56  <TrueBrain> nice
22:15:01  <TrueBrain> no clue if it is correct content-wise
22:15:04  <TrueBrain> but push it :D
22:15:05  <LordAro> Samu: thanks, can you put that in the PR description please?
22:15:54  <TrueBrain> glx: "calls add_custom_command(). Any add_custom_target()" :D
22:16:20  <TrueBrain> "by add_custom_command_timestamp(), then calls add_custom_target()." <- guess something went wrong with search/replace somewhere :P
22:16:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:16:32  <TrueBrain> glx: you keep mixing 'command' and 'target' in comments :D
22:17:00  <glx> no it's a warning to not forget to replace the add_custom_target call too
22:17:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:17:33  <TrueBrain> okay, that was not clear to me :)
22:18:25  <TrueBrain> I have no suggestions to fix :P
22:18:30  <TrueBrain> it is difficult ..
22:18:41  <TrueBrain> so yeah, go for it
22:18:46  <glx> and the other comment is just so only treated files are touched
22:19:04  <TrueBrain> I think itreally helps if you add \n\n before that sentence, now I come to think of it
22:19:11  <TrueBrain> and something like: "Note:" in front of it
22:19:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:19:22  <glx> because add_custom_target can have files not timestamped, like the copy command for some baseset files
22:19:46  <TrueBrain> but okay, these kind of "hacks" to fix shortcomings in CMake will always be difficult to read :)
22:20:04  <TrueBrain> so .. look at it, see if you can make it more uinderstandable for others .. and put it in the cmake branch :)
22:20:34  <TrueBrain> right, time to watch some telly
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22:23:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:29:34  <Samu> LordAro, it was there
22:29:40  <Samu> i copy pasted up
22:30:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
22:30:50  <Samu> let me look at the code
22:34:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:35:27  <Samu> line 983 network.cpp
22:35:42  <Samu> NetworkDistributeCommands();
22:35:47  <Samu> this is the dude
22:37:20  <Samu> DistributeQueue at network_command.cpp line 264
22:37:49  <Samu> this is the function that splits the queue into multiple "frames"
22:37:56  <Samu> aka delay one more tick
22:38:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
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22:40:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:41:45  <Samu> line 996 NetworkExecuteLocalCommandQueue() comes after the DistributeQueue
22:42:02  <Samu> at network.cpp, this is when the AI companies are created
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22:42:20  <Samu> but only if it wasn't delayed
22:43:13  <Samu> line 999 starts another tick
22:43:23  <Samu> StateGameLoop()
22:43:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:44:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector
22:48:59  <Samu> oh, the wrong reference, gonna fix it
22:51:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7376: Fix 011257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer.
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22:57:02  <Samu> TrueBrain, how to solve :(
22:59:31  <Samu> problem is caused by Company::GetNumItems()
23:00:05  <Samu> and the fact that AI companies are started every tick
23:00:21  <Samu> and the fact that the network can delay execution of commands by one tick
23:00:29  <Samu> or another
23:00:57  <Samu> I fail at explaining
23:01:24  <Samu> line 598 has a Company::GetNumItems()
23:01:41  <Samu> this test is done before starting the command
23:03:12  <Samu> Company::GetNumItems() is not correct at that point
23:03:25  <Samu> it may or may not
23:04:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7376: Fix 011257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer.
23:05:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #7376: Fix 011257d: Enforce the max_no_competitors and network.max_companies tests before creating an AI company in multiplayer.
23:07:48  <Samu> gonna try write everything there instead
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