Log for #openttd on 22nd April 2019:
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00:00:27  <Wormnest> Samu: I hardly ever play or check my AI´s in anything but the default climate. It´s still on the todo list to handle other climates more intelligently.
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01:24:47  <Corns> V453000, "rail planner" isn't copyrighted in any way is it? Im making a rail planner tool in openttd
01:25:29  <Corns> I'm wondering if I'm required to give it a different name for any reason
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01:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> ... names are never copyrighted
02:12:01  <Samu> that is cheating
02:12:10  <Samu> shouldn't be allowed
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04:00:59  <cHawk> Names can be trademarked though
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05:57:45  <peter1138> Any views on #7446?
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06:22:49  <andythenorth> o/
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06:27:50  <andythenorth> what goes on with trees eh?
06:28:48  <andythenorth> I've got a an arctic map which started with almost total tree coverage
06:29:06  <andythenorth> and after 50 years nearly all trees are gone
06:32:35  <LordAro> this comment does not match the values used -
06:34:24  <LordAro> and it is loading TTO save, which didn't have electric or maglev, right?
06:36:04  * LordAro wonders when someone last loaded a TTO save
06:48:46  * andythenorth considers a tech tree
06:48:50  <andythenorth> either in my own newgrf docs
06:48:55  <andythenorth> or how the game? o_O
06:51:18  <nielsm> well, let's try loading a TTO save then!
06:51:42  <nielsm> :(
06:51:55  <LordAro> F
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06:58:43  <andythenorth> hmm, I have the tech tree in python
06:58:55  <andythenorth> can I be arsed to figure out how to graphviz it?
06:59:05  <Wolf01> o/
06:59:43  <andythenorth> yo
07:32:26  <Wolf01> What are you planning to rekt next?
07:32:42  <andythenorth> rekking Hog
07:33:33  <Wolf01> <- I want to rekt this
07:33:45  <Wolf01> I should have at least half of the parts :P
07:36:41  <andythenorth> o_O
07:37:16  <andythenorth> so do roads have speed limits?
07:37:32  <Wolf01> "suggested speed"
07:47:14  <andythenorth> oof my multi-type vehicles have stopped working
07:48:57  <LordAro> this seems like a bug
07:49:15  * LordAro reduces by one
08:00:32  <Wolf01> You should check where it's used if it's a max length or count
08:01:48  <LordAro> used as "one past the maximum"
08:01:50  <andythenorth> so how do I use a hidden roadtype for vehicles to drive on multiple other types?
08:02:12  <andythenorth> it worked a couple of days ago, and now it's broken
08:05:26  * andythenorth will wait for peter
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08:38:15  <andythenorth> @seen pikka
08:38:15  <andythenorth> @seen dorpsgek
08:38:15  <andythenorth> lame
08:38:15  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 3 days, 21 hours, 15 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <Pikka> if the separate sprites had cc masks, I wouldn't have made them separate sprites :)
08:38:16  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: I have not seen dorpsgek.
08:38:38  <V453000> andythenorth: I'm tweaking NUTS numbers :D fucking up my project andy-style
08:38:45  <andythenorth> yes
08:38:46  <andythenorth> do
08:38:52  <V453000> thanks, needed support
08:38:59  <V453000> everything shall be your fault ultimately
08:39:03  <andythenorth> nuts_final_final.grf
08:39:08  <V453000> :D yeah no
08:39:17  <V453000> I don't do the mistake of calling anything final
08:40:29  * andythenorth rekking Hogs
08:45:38  <Artea> good morning
08:47:29  <Artea> andy
08:47:36  <Artea> found out a new tv series for you
08:47:44  <Artea> Power
08:47:55  <Artea> in Odissea channel
08:48:48  <Artea> is all about Trains :)
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09:30:34  <Wolf01> Ok, it seem I need to put in another 100€ of parts to finish that lego puzzle :(
09:44:02  * andythenorth assumes peter1138 is on a bike
09:58:51  <V453000> I should do that sometimes too
10:04:13  * andythenorth rekks Hogs
10:06:36  <andythenorth> meh gonna end up with one transport type too many :D
10:07:34  <V453000> I think I'll add MORE text to the purchase menu infos
10:07:46  <peter1138> Morning
10:08:02  <peter1138> I was on a bike, yes.
10:09:54  <andythenorth> I might put in 20 miles in the hot tub
10:10:26  <peter1138> Only 12.6 mph average today.
10:11:53  <LordAro> peter1138: recovering from yesterday? :p
10:12:50  <peter1138> LordAro, no, mountain biking.
10:12:57  <peter1138>
10:13:03  <peter1138> ^ Regarding that line, it's fine.
10:13:38  <peter1138> It is actually not necessary.
10:13:59  <peter1138> src/saveload/afterload.cpp:1310 will forced it to the engine type's railtype anyway.
10:14:11  <LordAro> peter1138: is it the comment that is wrong then? because 0 & 1 definitely refer to rail & elec
10:15:33  <peter1138> They don't really.
10:15:45  <LordAro> well the type certainly thinks they do
10:15:49  <peter1138> That's why it's 0 & 1, not RAILTYPE_RAIL, etc.
10:16:04  <peter1138> Remember saveload conversion has to use values as they were at the time.
10:16:37  <andythenorth> so how I do use hidden types to do cross compatibility?
10:16:50  <peter1138> If it was RAILTYPE_RAIL and RAILTYPE_MONO, then later conversion would then convert that MONO to MAGLEV.
10:16:52  <LordAro> peter1138: i see, then it goes through afterload.cpp and fixes all the values up?
10:17:05  <peter1138> (Except it won't, because we just force the engine railtype)
10:17:05  <peter1138> Yeah
10:22:13  <peter1138> Oh no, Maxi Muscle millionaires shortbread bars are... somewhat nice.
10:24:03  <andythenorth> carolies
10:24:10  <peter1138> About 200.
10:24:20  * andythenorth has no idea about carolies
10:24:24  <andythenorth> is that a lot?
10:24:36  <peter1138> Not massively.
10:24:42  <peter1138> About 10% RDA
10:25:28  <andythenorth> so I have HAUL and ROAD types
10:25:33  <andythenorth> and I want a truck that can run on both
10:25:46  <andythenorth> so I defined CAKE, made it hidden, and set compatibility to ROAD and HAUL
10:25:51  <andythenorth> then set the truck to CAKE
10:26:03  <andythenorth> it worked on Friday, it doesn't today :P
10:26:13  <andythenorth> am I Doing It Wrong?
10:26:53  <peter1138> What happens?
10:27:17  <andythenorth> vehicles don't show at all in any depots
10:27:17  <andythenorth> I am trying a few things, it's usually my fault
10:27:53  <andythenorth> I think I've found the cause
10:27:55  <peter1138> Possibly you got compatibility the wrong way around.
10:28:15  <peter1138> Possibly there's a design flaw
10:28:17  <peter1138> Who knows
10:28:35  <andythenorth> nope
10:28:35  <andythenorth> had a game without FIRS
10:28:48  <andythenorth> no cargos for this truck in base industries
10:28:50  <andythenorth> so hidden
10:28:56  <peter1138> Oh.
10:29:21  <andythenorth> usually it's my fault
10:30:24  <peter1138> nielsm, heh, that station coverage patch, yeah, it completely ignore catchment_tiles and does its own thing based on the original algorithms...
10:32:58  <peter1138> But as it is, seems nobody is interested enough in it.
10:33:05  <peter1138> I know andythenorth tested it.
10:33:42  * Artea needs a disaster report
10:33:43  <andythenorth> I did
10:33:51  <andythenorth> you referring to the other one in the forums?
10:34:03  <peter1138> "that" yes.
10:34:10  <andythenorth> yeah I tested yours
10:34:25  <andythenorth> are we merging NRT today?
10:35:11  <peter1138> Depends if I fix it.
10:35:43  * peter1138 rebases 7446
10:35:55  <peter1138> (Also replaced auto with const Station *, cos old-style)
10:36:17  <V453000> is it possible to somehow combine strings from other strings in NML?
10:36:20  <peter1138> Oh, this bar is BBE Apr19. Better eat all of them.
10:36:22  <V453000> I could process it in python but just asking
10:37:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
10:37:47  <peter1138> ^ There, just needs reviewing ;)
10:38:18  <andythenorth> ha ha
10:38:27  <andythenorth> I got caught out by the stupid ffwd hotkey again
10:38:35  <andythenorth> I am running a debug build, so it's shift not tab
10:38:40  <andythenorth> I'm sure that makes total sense
10:38:46  <andythenorth> I was about to report that FFWD is broken
10:40:32  <andythenorth> or blame Apple
10:41:04  <peter1138> :)
10:41:22  <andythenorth> what's the plural of 'feldbahn' then?
10:41:27  <andythenorth> and what's a feldbahn train called?
10:41:33  <andythenorth> a 'feldbahn' ?
10:41:52  <peter1138> V453000, probably not literal string combining. OpenTTD has string codes to include things but I'm not sure where that can be used.
10:42:22  <peter1138> But... I know hardly anything about nml.
10:42:26  <peter1138> Last commit I did broke it :p
10:43:10  <andythenorth> how do I turn off the damn debug in ./configure? :P
10:43:21  <peter1138> Run it *without* --enable-debug
10:43:42  <andythenorth> thanks
10:43:52  <andythenorth> to be fair, the --help would have told me that if I'd looked
10:46:01  <peter1138>
10:46:06  <peter1138> Well...
10:46:32  <andythenorth> doubling up the chrome?
10:46:48  <peter1138> Looks a bit ridiculous at 4x :p
10:47:13  <andythenorth> I got used to the minimal chrome at 2x :D
10:47:34  <peter1138> I think the thin lines are okay, but the padding itself looks wrong.
10:48:33  <peter1138> On the other hand, this patch shows where quite a lot of places use the wrong values, or just use numbers instead of the padding enum.
10:48:36  <V453000> peter1138: thanks, I thought so just wasn't entirely sure ... I'll just need to write lng files in python next time :D
10:49:03  <peter1138> Yeah you can pre-process your lng files I guess.
10:49:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
10:52:17  <Artea> Googleweed ftw
10:52:35  <peter1138> Who what?
10:52:52  <Artea> name of silly town
10:53:10  <peter1138> Nice.
10:53:21  <peter1138> My enchantment table fell apart :-(
10:53:26  <peter1138> Well, actually the book fell off.
10:53:35  <Artea> :(
10:53:42  <nielsm> you practice witchcraft?
10:54:24  <Artea>
10:54:30  <Artea> still running :D
11:00:24  <Artea> I need a better GS :(
11:02:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
11:02:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
11:03:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
11:03:18  <peter1138> Such spam :D
11:03:51  <peter1138> nielsm, I practice assembling pre-cut cardboard Minecraft models, heh...
11:06:18  * andythenorth pisses around with feldbahn speeds and stuff
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11:16:07  <peter1138> Hmm, found an issue now :p
11:22:56  <Artea> it is a bug ?
11:23:04  <Artea> if is, kill him
11:23:17  <Artea> I mean, kill it
11:24:50  <Artea> ok, don't kill it... just don't feed after midnight
11:24:57  <peter1138> That's a Gremlin.
11:26:06  <Artea> :P
11:26:33  <Artea> Gremlinville
11:27:04  <Artea> finally
11:27:09  <Artea> 1B euros per year
11:27:18  <Artea> from aircrafts ;)
11:27:23  <Artea> after a few got crashed
11:33:39  <Artea> peter: it is possible to add crash (disaster) report ?
11:33:51  <peter1138> You get a news message.
11:34:18  <Artea> but that don't tell the path they were taking
11:34:32  <Artea> and long gone
11:34:45  <peter1138> Well that's your problem for now paying attention.
11:35:02  <Artea> it sux
11:35:10  <Artea> lost like 4 planes while sleeping
11:37:57  <andythenorth> so...daylength?
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11:49:24  <andythenorth> what interval should Feldbahn generations have?
11:50:13  <andythenorth> probably 30, like every other type I ask about :P
11:54:45  <andythenorth> very narrow progression though
11:54:50  <andythenorth> 25mph -> 45mph or so
12:00:44  <Artea> :(
12:00:54  <Artea> player joined but didn't done anything
12:01:00  <Artea> now is losing money
12:01:06  <Artea> already -15M
12:01:26  <peter1138> Sounds like how I play.
12:03:58  <Artea> I find hard to start now
12:04:07  <Artea> year 2370
12:04:17  <Artea> almost 300 years pass
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12:15:41  <peter1138> Only 300? That was a late start then.
12:17:36  <Artea> 3 days on
12:18:15  <Artea> can't pinpoint the time I started
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12:19:52  <andythenorth> quak also
12:21:08  <frosch_> ah, that's where my scrollevent went to
12:21:35  <frosch_> moi
12:22:53  <Wolf01> Quak
12:24:18  <Artea> Quake ?
12:24:20  <Artea> I miss playing it
12:25:02  <andythenorth> speed of Feldbahn in 1860, 20mph?  25mph?
12:25:13  <andythenorth> speed of Feldbahn in 2000, 40mph? 45mph?  50mph?
12:26:57  <peter1138> Does it exist in 2000?
12:29:14  <andythenorth> well
12:29:22  <andythenorth> probably
12:29:40  <andythenorth> but other types make more sense by then
12:29:48  <andythenorth> mining trucks and so on
12:31:02  <andythenorth> HEQS feldbhan starts at 15mph in 1870 and goes all the way up to 31mph by 1952 :P
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12:44:07  <nielsm> yeah feldbahn is pretty much obsolete by 1980 I think
12:44:31  <nielsm> trucks and conveyer belts do the same task better
12:51:06  <andythenorth> where do I put a grf so OpenTTD can find it/
12:51:41  <andythenorth> usually I just use make install
12:51:51  <andythenorth> or DLC
12:51:56  <andythenorth> but I'm trying to give one of my kids a dev version of FIRS
12:52:02  <andythenorth> for OpenTTD 1.9.1
12:55:24  <LordAro> andythenorth: readme 4.2 :p
12:55:56  <LordAro> i think, or is that just openttd.cfg locations?
12:57:15  <andythenorth> dunno, it's now installing XCode to read the .md file
12:57:17  <andythenorth> stupid mac
12:59:28  <glx> blame the user, not the computer ;)
12:59:46  <peter1138> :D
12:59:51  <andythenorth> I'll blame Apple
13:00:10  <andythenorth> why the fuck does it want to download and install Apple's stupid heavyweight crap IDE
13:00:14  <andythenorth> just for a .md file
13:00:16  <andythenorth> this is clown shoes
13:00:58  <Artea> content_download ?
13:01:37  <glx> no content_download is for download feature
13:01:57  <glx> but there are folders near content_download for manual stuff
13:02:15  <andythenorth> I just tried moving the file and restarting OpenTTD
13:02:17  <andythenorth> over and over again
13:02:22  <andythenorth> until OpenTTD found it
13:02:40  <andythenorth> the detection of grfs on macOS filesystems is shit
13:02:56  <andythenorth> I regularly get broken savegame warnings due to missing grfs
13:03:03  <andythenorth> which disappear on reload
13:03:30  <andythenorth> is it lunch time yet?
13:03:40  <glx> not the only weird thing in macOS side of openttd
13:03:48  <peter1138> Some what.
13:04:17  * andythenorth explores the freezer
13:04:21  <andythenorth> I already had a sald
13:04:27  <glx> when removing QSortT() the worse part was macOS files
13:04:49  <glx> the video driver does everything differently than other video draivers
13:05:16  <andythenorth> hmm freezer scenario is shit
13:05:20  <andythenorth> and it's bank holiday
13:05:23  <andythenorth> starvation!
13:05:42  <peter1138> I ate loads :/
13:06:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
13:07:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
13:13:11  <andythenorth> should I? o_O
13:33:07  <peter1138> Yes
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13:44:38  <Artea> f***
13:44:52  <Artea> can't find the tv series I watched yesterday
13:45:02  <Artea> about trains
13:45:30  <Eddi|zuHause> and you want us to list all tv series about trains now?
13:45:31  <Samu> T-Series vs PewDiePie
13:45:59  <Artea> no
13:46:04  <Artea> its called Power
13:46:16  <Artea> hard to find with that name
13:47:24  <Samu>
13:47:29  <Samu> heh, already dethroned
13:54:55  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> should I? o_O <- definitely
14:00:15  <andythenorth> ok
14:27:53  <Samu> DumbAI vs RoadAI on Toyland... 2 AIs that don't build anything
14:28:04  <Samu> one is bugged, the other crashes
14:28:16  <Samu> how to decide who wins?
14:29:26  <Artea> it's a tie
14:31:10  <Samu> round robin can accept ties, I suppose
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14:54:45  <andythenorth> maybe there should be low and high speed HEQS :P
14:55:07  <V453000> just out of curiosity, does anybody know rough download counts for openttd, and copies sold for original TTD/TTO?
15:03:19  <Eddi|zuHause> we certainly know the download numbers for each openttd release, but i doubt there are accessible numbers about original TTD/TTO
15:03:59  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the download numbers from our server. there may be other sources
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15:14:32  <andythenorth> 220t, 50-60mph
15:14:43  <andythenorth> up to 400t, 25-30mph
15:14:52  <andythenorth> 2 types of HEQS then? :P
15:28:56  <Artea> huhu
15:29:02  <Artea> 401 years has passed
15:46:01  <Samu> wow RoadAI built something!
15:46:10  <Samu> it wins vs a crash ai
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16:05:33  <Samu> gelignAIte wins!
16:06:58  <Samu> wormai has unexpected performance
16:07:03  <Samu> beats trAIns
16:07:52  <Wormnest> Samu: Unexpected in what way
16:08:26  <Samu> trAIns is usually strong
16:08:47  <Samu> wormai is sometimes too great, and some other times too bad
16:08:55  <Samu> it's not easy to predict
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16:10:26  <Samu> and it beat it on its own game
16:10:32  <Samu> with trains
16:10:37  <Samu> only 1 plane
16:12:36  <Samu> Wormnest,
16:24:36  <Wormnest> Early planes are not very profitable that´s probably why it chose to use mostly trains
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16:32:45  <frosch_> V453000: wiki says that rct1 was sold 4 million types from 1999 to 2002
16:32:57  <frosch_> rct1 was more successful than ttd
16:33:06  <frosch_> and the gaming market was growing
16:33:14  <frosch_> so, i would guess less than 2 million original ttd ales
16:33:48  <frosch_> most importantly rct1 was also successful in us, while ttd was mostly europe
16:35:25  <V453000> :)
16:35:32  <frosch_> V453000:  basically, put these in relation: (faq 21 and 22)
16:36:05  <frosch_> that "i cant remember the figures" is marketing speech ofc :p
16:41:16  <Samu> wtf, CivilAI and BorkAI perform better in easy preset
16:41:22  <Samu> oh well...
16:42:50  <andythenorth> does FIRS have sugarcane?
16:43:19  <andythenorth> apparently not
16:43:42  <frosch_> RSGR was deprecated in favour of SGBT and SGCN
16:47:32  <andythenorth> thanks
16:47:35  <andythenorth> valuable history :D
16:47:58  * andythenorth should add much more Feldbahn
16:52:10  <peter1138> Hi
16:52:17  <andythenorth> it's peter1138 erer
16:52:23  <peter1138> I just... had icecream on a waffle.
16:52:26  <peter1138> Super carolies
16:52:50  <andythenorth> bonus
16:52:50  <peter1138> And then I tried to race the oldest kid I was with but somehow fell over "lol"
16:53:32  <peter1138> So now I'm having a beer.
16:53:39  <peter1138> As the kids are on their way home.
16:53:59  <peter1138> Right is it merged yet?
17:03:54  <LordAro> peter1138: oh no
17:04:43  <andythenorth> merge all
17:04:57  <andythenorth> did I make Hog auto-generate all the sprites yet?
17:05:50  <peter1138> Did you?
17:07:29  <andythenorth> no
17:07:48  <andythenorth> think of the time saved though!
17:11:31  <peter1138> And to top if off, because I had waffle & icecream, no dinner for me.
17:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i had leftovers from yesterday...
17:14:09  <peter1138> No leftovers, I ate a whole massive steak :S
17:14:18  <peter1138> Ah well, at least I rode the bike today.
17:23:48  <andythenorth> I put in a bit of hot tub time
17:23:53  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> And then I tried to race the oldest kid I was with but somehow fell over "lol" <-- there's a category of "young father injuries", where people engage in activities with kids and are not as resilient as them :p
17:23:54  <andythenorth> only 38 deg though
17:23:55  <andythenorth>
17:24:06  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I have most of those injuries
17:29:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #84: Change: semantic HTML-elements for the pages main sections and corresponding CSS-rules
17:48:00  <LordAro> i guess i should probably look at some website stuff, in absense of TB
17:48:06  <LordAro> unless andy wants to :p
17:48:35  <LordAro> absence*
17:48:42  <andythenorth> I don't want to
17:50:50  <Samu> start_date is really bugged
17:51:06  <Samu> annoying, bugged, unpredictable
17:51:11  * peter1138 orders a new chain.
17:51:27  <Samu> so i setup 2 AIs with start date of 1 day
17:51:42  <Samu> all the other AI slots are left to their defaults, which is 720 days
17:51:55  <Samu> these 2 AIs start, but one bankrupts early
17:52:08  <Samu> guess why it doesn't start right away after bankrupt
17:53:49  <Samu> just merge it
17:53:51  <Samu> :)
17:54:30  <Samu> solves the issue
17:55:06  <Samu> or maybe it doesn't, I dunno anymore
17:55:59  <Samu> nop, doesn't solve this one
18:07:49  <peter1138> Why should it start straight away?
18:07:56  <peter1138> The next start is 720 days later.
18:08:36  * V453000 is going completely apeshit with nuts :D what was meant to be a small refactor might end up being a big rewrite
18:08:42  <peter1138> :D
18:13:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Roki100 opened issue #7535: Cant read error
18:14:12  <LordAro> well that's not the most useful bug report in the world
18:14:55  <nielsm> I think he added a screenshot
18:15:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7535: Cant read error
18:15:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7535: Cant read error
18:15:50  <LordAro> ah, the ascii output!
18:16:08  <LordAro> i think sdl does it under certain circumstances as well
18:16:20  <LordAro> tell them to make their terminal bigger :p
18:17:03  <V453000> that image is cool as fuck
18:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause> text handling could be improved in ascii mode :p
18:23:05  <nielsm> also even if that was an actual bug, the first
18:23:19  <nielsm> the first suggestion would be try 1.9.1 instead
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18:56:42  <peter1138> Hmm.
19:01:29  <andythenorth> yes
19:05:24  <LordAro> definitely
19:06:14  <andythenorth> LordAro: I might just stay out of the website PRs
19:06:36  <LordAro> andythenorth: boring :p
19:06:37  <andythenorth> better that it were just done
19:06:55  <andythenorth> 14 differing opinions is one of the downsides of open source
19:08:37  <LordAro> andythenorth: i disagree
19:08:40  <LordAro> :p
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19:24:18  <peter1138> Yers
19:28:49  <peter1138> I'm lost in a world of ...
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19:30:23  <andythenorth> graphics generation
19:30:28  * andythenorth is lost in that
19:35:06  <peter1138> Nice
19:38:03  <nielsm> procedurally generated vehicle sets
19:41:22  <LordAro> that'd be a fun thing
19:41:41  <LordAro> the trick would be not making it consistent for rotations
19:43:15  <nielsm> but really, something like in A-train where you only get the vehicles you R&D yourself
19:44:23  <nielsm> and/or balancing speed, power, cost, reliability (and maybe make reliability mean something other than "randomly stops dead")
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19:44:49  <LordAro> i recall an improved breakdowns patch somewhere
19:50:12  <nielsm>  should maybe look into integrating this at least?
19:51:24  <nielsm>  improved breakdowns, it's over 10 years old
19:51:50  <andythenorth> so what's faster?
19:52:06  <andythenorth> repeatedly opening images from disk, or repeatedly memory copying them?
19:52:11  <LordAro> the ancient one is what i was remembering
19:52:20  <LordAro> probably won't work so well
19:54:03  <nielsm> andythenorth: likely not much difference assuming disk caching, but for compressed images that might actually be more significant decompressing it repeatedly
19:54:54  <andythenorth> memory is about 2s faster, 13s vs 15s
19:55:18  <andythenorth> single threaded
19:55:44  <andythenorth> it's a spurious benchmark, usually I run it with 16 worker threads, and it's about 3s in both cases
19:56:06  <andythenorth> I wondered if the 16 thread version would block on io, but my disk is insanely fast and the images are tiny
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20:00:31  <peter1138> Hmm, am I imagining the depot train view having train length guide markers?
20:01:00  <nielsm> it has that since two years ago I think?
20:01:10  <peter1138> Why can't I see it?
20:01:49  <peter1138> Or... where should I see it? :s
20:02:58  <nielsm>   1.9.1
20:02:58  <andythenorth> they are just dotted verticals
20:03:16  <nielsm> can be rather faint
20:03:18  <andythenorth> one tip: don't look at them whilst horizontally scrolling in depot :P
20:03:51  <andythenorth> oh that's fixed
20:03:55  <andythenorth> when did that happen :P
20:04:12  <andythenorth> they used to not move with scroll :)
20:05:07  <peter1138> src/depot_gui.cpp:217
20:05:18  <peter1138> So... it seems to disable the lines in a case that I don't understand.
20:05:38  <peter1138> traininfo_vehicle_width was never meant to be per-GRF o_O
20:05:56  <andythenorth> o-O
20:08:58  <frosch_> you can only choose between two options :)
20:09:03  <frosch_> both are bad
20:09:26  <frosch_> either you draw 28px trains in a 32px grid, which results in large gaps
20:09:37  <frosch_> or you have 28px and 32px trains occupy different space in the depot
20:09:46  <frosch_> currently you have options 2
20:09:54  <peter1138> 2 is wrong.
20:10:10  <frosch_> i think 2 is better than 1
20:10:18  <peter1138> As it makes two trains of the same length appear to be different length.
20:10:35  <frosch_> yes, but each train looks correct on their own
20:11:26  <frosch_> anyway, easiest solution: don't use pikka grfs, don't use 28px vehicles
20:11:39  <V453000> REKT
20:11:42  <frosch_> 28px vehicles have all kind of problems with shortened vehicles and stuff
20:11:47  <LordAro> lol
20:12:03  <Eddi|zuHause> and neither 28 nor 32 is perspectively correct
20:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be closer to 24, i think
20:15:40  <peter1138> This is horrible.
20:15:53  <peter1138> As in... who came up with this idea?
20:15:58  <peter1138> 1.5 != 1.5
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20:16:26  <andythenorth> length is 'interesting'
20:16:47  <peter1138> Oh I see, it's frosch_'s thing.
20:16:52  <peter1138> Well, it's bad. Sorry. :p
20:17:01  <andythenorth> don't rage quit frosch_ ! pls :D
20:17:24  <peter1138> Meh, no. He did the vertical lines. But only if all NewGRFs match. Which is... hardly ever.
20:17:37  <frosch_> back in 2012 the goal was: don't make grfs break other grfs
20:17:49  <frosch_> so everything that had global effect was turned into grf-local effect
20:17:55  <frosch_> as said, you have 2 options
20:17:56  <peter1138> I don't think "a little extra space" is "broken"
20:17:57  <frosch_> both are bad
20:18:05  <frosch_> back then we had bug reports about issue 1
20:18:09  <peter1138> I think "1.5" != "1.5" IS definitely broken.
20:18:34  <frosch_> it's the same with the y offset
20:18:47  <frosch_> either grf people complain that their vehicles are not aligned as they are
20:18:54  <frosch_> or different vehicles are aligned differently
20:19:00  <frosch_> but you have that anyway
20:19:08  <peter1138> Not really, unless you start stacking vehicles vertically...
20:19:13  <frosch_> vehicle aligment is arbitrary
20:19:29  <peter1138> (I don't have a patch for that)
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20:19:59  <frosch_> anyway, it's fine as long as you don't mix grfs
20:20:07  <frosch_> that's actually true for both options :p
20:21:57  <peter1138> So in this old game I have ukrs2 and ukrs2 addons.
20:22:39  <peter1138> One of them doesn't set the flag because it's an addon... and requires the first NewGRF.
20:23:27  <frosch_> oh, i was wrong, it's like that since 2010, not 2012
20:23:28  <peter1138> What happens when you mix 28 and 32 in the same row?
20:23:34  <frosch_> so more than half the age of ottd :p
20:23:56  <frosch_> peter1138: every vehicle uses it's own length
20:24:02  <frosch_> so every wagon has the correct spacing
20:24:08  <frosch_> as intended when drawing
20:24:17  <andythenorth> grf v99
20:24:20  <andythenorth> break old things
20:25:44  <frosch_> andythenorth: tb suggested to transpile a new language into grf. but you can also do the reverse:: transpile grf into something new
20:26:02  <frosch_> but well, any language will not solve the 28px/32px issue :p
20:26:18  <andythenorth> nope
20:26:22  <andythenorth> well
20:26:32  <andythenorth> transpile 8/8 to 7/8 :P
20:26:38  <andythenorth> shorter lengths wont' work
20:26:53  <andythenorth> they're all probably wrong offsets anyway :D
20:26:54  <frosch_> well, when you get 8k displays, maybe you can stretch the 28px sprites to 32px, and people won't notice
20:26:56  <nielsm> yeah rework the entire modding system in something different from grf + squirrel, and reimplement newgrf in the new system?
20:27:03  <nielsm> that's a multi year project for sure
20:27:05  <LordAro> if (width == 7/8) exit("bad pikka, stop it")
20:27:21  <andythenorth> the TB plan was a new source input format, compiling to existing formats
20:27:29  <andythenorth> but then TB had a sad
20:27:37  <frosch_> nielsm: that's not even the point :p the point is that the format does not affect the fundamentally broken mechanics in ottd
20:27:37  <LordAro> :(
20:27:53  <nielsm> frosch_, of course
20:27:53  <frosch_> nielsm: even factorio people did not manage to fix their isometric scale
20:28:09  <frosch_> and now work around their perspective issue in increasingly insane ways
20:28:15  <andythenorth> on the scale of things that bother me
20:28:16  <V453000> yay new nuts :)
20:28:23  <andythenorth> the isometric scale doesn't even register
20:28:23  <peter1138> 0.8.1 or 0.9.0?
20:28:31  <nielsm> peanuts? walnuts?
20:29:01  <nielsm> or the kind you use with machine screws?
20:29:23  <peter1138> Hmm.
20:29:33  <V453000> 0.8.1
20:29:53  <V453000> I do the retarded numbering where it's decimal versions ... 0.8.1 is 81th version
20:29:53  <peter1138> Ok, I was wrong, UKRS2 and UKRS2+ addons both set 32.
20:30:02  <frosch_> what version number will be the 1000th release?
20:30:15  <V453000> I'm hopefully dead by then frosch_
20:30:38  <peter1138> HEQS apparently has a rail vehicle in it.
20:30:44  <peter1138> 1 single vehicle, that I never used.
20:30:51  <peter1138> HEQS doesn't set 32.
20:30:58  <frosch_> V453000: sure, but that will be your task in hell
20:31:02  <andythenorth> HEQS is DEAD
20:31:09  <andythenorth> I should rename it :P
20:31:13  <peter1138> This is an old game, HEQS was definitely alive.
20:31:15  <andythenorth> HEQS is now a label in Hog
20:31:28  <andythenorth> V453000: I've named a roadtype LOLZ
20:31:33  <andythenorth> I might do CATZ
20:31:38  <andythenorth> and NYAN
20:31:38  <V453000> ._.
20:31:54  <peter1138> Making same tile-length be different is so weird and wrong. I don't understand why it was even considered :?
20:31:57  <peter1138> :/
20:32:07  <andythenorth> unconsider it? :)
20:32:18  <frosch_> because people complained that their vehicles looked wrong in depot and vehicle details
20:32:57  <frosch_> simple rule: one grf should not break another grf
20:34:37  <V453000> gnight :)
20:38:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii opened issue #7536: [FreeBSD] Syntax error: "(" unexpected
20:39:55  <peter1138> So that sounds like some script to run the game. I don't think that's us.
20:41:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7536: [FreeBSD] Syntax error: "(" unexpected
20:41:24  <frosch_> <- can't find it
20:41:58  <frosch_> they include a save-passwords patch :p
20:42:16  <nielsm>
20:42:56  <peter1138> svn... oh dear.
20:43:33  <frosch_> it's not cvs like openbsd
20:44:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii opened issue #7537: [FreeBSD] Bugs while compiling OpenTTD 1.9.1
20:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is that?
20:46:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7537: [FreeBSD] Bugs while compiling OpenTTD 1.9.1
20:46:13  <frosch_> some macro conflict with the system headers probably
20:47:03  <nielsm> could we instead patch squirrel to not have a macro named "type"?
20:47:49  <frosch_> we kind of have a custom sq fork already
20:51:23  <peter1138> I had to rename one macro parameter from `type` yesterday :p
20:52:44  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder what the intention of ScriptStation::HasRoadType is.
20:53:15  <peter1138> Exact match, compatible match, or just "does it have road" / "does it have tram" ?
20:54:28  <glx> the enum says has seen a vehicle
20:54:56  <peter1138> Enum?
20:55:18  <glx> enum StationHadVehicleOfType in station_type.h
20:55:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii commented on issue #7536: [FreeBSD] Syntax error: "(" unexpected
20:55:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii closed issue #7536: [FreeBSD] Syntax error: "(" unexpected
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20:55:39  <glx> hmm wrong reading from me
20:55:42  <glx> forget it :)
20:55:46  <peter1138> Ah :-)
20:56:17  <peter1138> Hmm, is there a version of PuTTY that'll understand URLs? :S
20:57:04  <peter1138> Yes. It's separate. How stupid.
20:57:39  <Eddi|zuHause> ... maybe i shouldn't try to understand people today...
20:58:17  <peter1138> Hmm?
20:58:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii commented on issue #7537: [FreeBSD] Bugs while compiling OpenTTD 1.9.1
20:58:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ChiiFii closed issue #7537: [FreeBSD] Bugs while compiling OpenTTD 1.9.1
20:59:02  <peter1138> Good luck with that one.
20:59:48  <nielsm> should we maybe extract that "type" commit from the PR and apply to 1.9 branch as well?
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21:14:38  <peter1138> Nice, simulated 3840x2160 on my VNC display :p
21:14:47  <peter1138> Somewhat slow.
21:15:20  <nielsm> I think we should maybe default zoom in the title game if resolution is greater than 1920x1080
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21:16:10  <nielsm> or something slightly above that maybe
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21:49:57  <LordAro> nielsm: curious that it's not been an issue before, i'm sure freebsd has had an OTTD port in the past
21:51:50  <nielsm> I think it's the change to C++11
21:52:01  <nielsm> that causes STL headers to do more/different things
21:53:31  <LordAro> ah yes, probably
21:59:58  * peter1138 finds yet more bugs.
22:00:38  <peter1138> How can I make implicit RoadType to bool conversion an error? o_O
22:00:57  <LordAro> explicit constructor?
22:01:07  <nielsm> it's an enum I think?
22:01:27  <nielsm> what if you make it an enum class?
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22:01:38  <peter1138> Then all sorts of things fail :-)
22:01:47  <LordAro> i imagine there's quite a lot of RoadType usage :p
22:05:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type
22:06:22  <peter1138> Nice.
22:06:39  <LordAro> wot i did with my holidays
22:06:55  <peter1138> : byte or : uint8, though? heh
22:06:56  <glx> lol I'm doing the same :)
22:07:52  <peter1138> Oddly enough we have "RoadTypeByte" but it's never saved or loaded.
22:07:57  <LordAro> peter1138: i just echoed what was already there, if you want to try a global s/byte/uint8/, be my guess
22:08:01  <glx> STAT_CLASS_MAX is used to declare an array
22:08:04  * peter1138 guesses...
22:08:11  <LordAro> guest*
22:08:33  <peter1138> LordAro, so this is related to your railtype question this morning :D
22:08:39  <LordAro> peter1138: it is :)
22:08:44  <LordAro> which i forgot to reunfix
22:08:56  <peter1138> Heh
22:09:07  <peter1138> I'm pretty sure line 1280 is not needed.
22:09:21  <peter1138> Needs an old save to test though :)
22:09:24  <LordAro> possibly, but i'd rather leave it alone :)
22:09:41  <peter1138> True. If you don't need to touch it for this change indeed.
22:09:41  <LordAro> and nielsm discovered that TTO saves are completely broken anyway
22:10:03  <LordAro> not sure about STAT_CLASS_MAX though
22:10:12  <LordAro> given it clearly can't fit in a byte
22:10:18  <nielsm> I didn't try loading a TTO save under the debugger
22:10:21  <peter1138> Well, only since std::vector I think.
22:10:26  <nielsm> so not sure exactly where it breaks
22:10:44  <peter1138> TTD scenarios load at least.
22:11:06  <nielsm> I also loaded a TTD save recently
22:11:17  <nielsm> (I think while working on town cargo gen)
22:11:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type
22:12:57  <glx> ah found the array, it's in NewGRFClass
22:15:01  <LordAro> it annoys me that EnumPropsT is only used in one place (Extract), but that's used in lots of places
22:15:17  <LordAro> so can't get rid of it
22:15:46  <peter1138> Can EnumPropsT use std::underlying_type instead of the second parameter?
22:15:58  <LordAro> i expect so
22:16:12  <LordAro> but it'd be a minor change
22:16:19  <glx> LordAro: you requeue or I do ?
22:16:45  <LordAro> glx: hmm?
22:16:57  <glx> usual CI fail
22:17:03  <LordAro> oh, go ahead
22:17:04  <glx> the weird one
22:19:36  <glx> I think win32 and win64 will fail, but let's wait the CI
22:20:49  <frosch_> LordAro: doesn't c++20 add a "byte"?
22:20:56  <LordAro> frosch_: i believe it does
22:21:22  <LordAro> nope, C++17
22:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Oddly enough we have "RoadTypeByte" but it's never saved or loaded. <-- probably someone just cargo culted it
22:21:49  <LordAro> that'll be a bit fun
22:22:32  <peter1138> Well.
22:23:15  <peter1138> railtype doesn't need to be saved either, but is.
22:23:41  <peter1138> It's not like we support changing NewGRFs :-)
22:24:02  <glx> ok other failed where I expected msvc to fail
22:24:27  <Eddi|zuHause> what i meant was: someone saw it was defined for railtypes, and just defined it for roadtypes as well, without knowing what it's for
22:25:30  <glx> I used type == 0x25 ? RAILTYPE_MONO : RAILTYPE_RAIL; locally to compile
22:26:00  <LordAro> glx: peter1138 explained earlier that that's not technically correct
22:26:06  <LordAro> but doesn't really matter
22:26:14  <LordAro> i'll wrap the whole thing in a static cast
22:30:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type
22:30:38  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, I know what you meant :-)
22:32:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type
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22:37:41  <peter1138> Oh god. Don't test disabling construction tools when the option is... not turned on o_O.
22:39:11  <LordAro> wait, what?
22:40:42  <peter1138> Settings -> Interface -> Construction -> Disable infrastructure building when no suitable vehicles are available: On
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22:41:19  <peter1138> So that setting being Off means... some buttons are still enabled... and no amount of code tweaking even should make them disabled.
22:41:38  <peter1138> Also leads to "this code was working earlier, why not now?"
22:42:22  <Samu> for Round 6, I was thinking of increasing difficulty
22:42:35  <Samu> higher costs
22:42:37  <Samu> and such
22:42:49  <Samu> but no inflation, i dont like inflation much
22:43:43  <Samu> maybe infrastructure maintenance costs to make all air ais insta lose
22:43:56  <frosch_> that setting should proably be deleted
22:44:14  <frosch_> it's pretty pointless for road and railtypes
22:44:14  <Samu> which one? inflation?
22:46:22  <LordAro> Samu: read further up
22:53:11  <peter1138> Perhaps, but...
22:54:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type
22:57:16  <glx> hmm but looking at the spec the change may be correct
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23:16:25  <peter1138> Hmm, AI built an airport, but thinks it failed, so stopped.
23:20:26  <peter1138> Hmm, how does AITestMode work?
23:20:59  <LordAro> very carefully
23:21:22  <peter1138> Seems it thinks it was testing but actually built.
23:21:29  <peter1138> Then it tries to build and that fails.
23:21:42  <glx> AITestMode is scope based
23:22:14  <peter1138> local test = AITestMode();
23:22:42  <peter1138> mm
23:22:56  <peter1138> Maybe it's not that.
23:24:48  <glx> in test mode nothing is built for real, except maybe temporary vehicle
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23:27:11  <peter1138> Ok... so the airport that is built is actually some other AIs.
23:27:22  <glx> huhu
23:27:37  <glx> same script in different slot ?
23:32:21  <Wormnest> With the most recent nightly just downloaded and then downloading the save NoNoCAB 2024 on the load screen it shows indeed NoNoCAB as AI.
23:32:49  <Wormnest> However after loading it shows up as CivilAI.
23:33:07  <Wormnest>
23:33:28  <Samu> hm?
23:33:39  <Wormnest> Link to savegame. The 1975 save also shows wrong AI in game.
23:34:33  <Samu> let me check
23:35:30  <Samu> works for me, do you have the AI installed?
23:35:31  <Wormnest> When I try to reload AI I get
23:35:31  <Wormnest> Assertion failed at line 310 of d:\a\s\src\economy.cpp: old_owner != _local_company
23:36:13  <Wormnest> I do but I also have a newer development version around that takes precedence
23:36:39  <Samu> oh, that was weird
23:36:53  <Samu> changes to some other ai
23:37:23  <Wormnest> For some reason another ai gets loaded than what is in the save
23:38:08  <Samu> also loaded as civilai for me
23:38:11  <Samu> very strange
23:38:21  <Samu> the 1975 loads fine
23:38:26  <Samu> the 2024 doesnt
23:39:05  <Samu> oh wait, it loaded admiral, it took a while
23:40:06  <Samu> why the heck does that happen
23:40:14  <Wormnest> yeah Idk
23:40:46  <Samu> do you have 1.8 installed, gonna try loading there
23:42:00  <Wormnest> No I don´t have any recent version installed I always use a trunk version
23:42:13  <Samu> what the heck, it loaded clueless
23:42:15  <Samu> in 1.8
23:42:37  <glx> maybe the AI is not declared compatible
23:43:32  <Samu> i dont have 1.7.2
23:43:34  <Wormnest> The savegames lower on that page do load NoNoCab. Could it have been a bug in the save code in the version that you used.
23:43:36  <Samu> where can i download?
23:44:14  <Samu> savegame is made with 1.7.2
23:48:33  <Samu> maybe that version of NoNoCAB was modified?
23:48:53  <Samu> gonna see what visual studio says
23:52:10  <Samu> building
23:59:21  <Samu> weird, the savegame loaded it as if it was saved as a random ai

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