Log for #openttd on 25th April 2019:
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03:09:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
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05:42:17  <peter1138> hi
05:43:18  <nielsm> morning
05:44:03  <peter1138> Fixed those issues in show coverage. Not particularly happy with how I did one of them :/
06:17:58  <nielsm> is there really not a "ctrl state changed" flag anywhere?
06:34:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
06:35:45  <nielsm> the station window is geting really crowded with buttons tho
06:36:09  <nielsm> would really like to either make icons for some of them, or combine them in some way
06:36:23  <nielsm> (or maybe move some to another row/position)
06:45:43  <peter1138> I couldn't see one for state changed, no.
06:46:10  <peter1138> Ooh, approved. I'd like to fix up those fixes first though :-)
06:49:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN dismissed a review for pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
06:49:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
06:52:12  <peter1138> Heh, the full CZTR set is massive... wow.
06:52:20  <peter1138> 32bpp 4x does that, I guess :)
07:00:09  <nielsm>
07:00:16  <nielsm> how about moving things around like that?
07:01:27  <nielsm> move the "query" buttons to a separate line, keep the "action" buttons at the bottom
07:01:38  <nielsm> and make accepts/ratings a more clear toggle/"tab"
07:07:31  <peter1138> Hmm.
07:08:24  <peter1138> Good idea. Separate PR?
07:08:32  <nielsm> yea
07:11:19  <peter1138> Well, only change in the 7446 update is I squashed the fixes and added a comment about ctrl state.
07:11:23  <peter1138> Off to work now.
07:12:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
07:14:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7446: Feature: Show coverage area for existing stations and towns
07:21:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7498: Change: Consider any cargo with passenger town effect for passenger-type subsidies.
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07:33:22  <Wolf01> Moin
07:46:31  <V453000> yo
07:48:40  <Wolf01> V, if a server is lagging in F, and it's not the internet connection for sure, is that because the server itself can't keep up?
07:51:12  <V453000> lagging as in an update takes longer than 16.6 ms?
07:51:39  <Wolf01> Skipping frames continuously, trying to drop players
07:51:57  <V453000> well honestly idk, but try to see how long an update takes
07:52:12  <V453000> but if it's certainly not connection then I guess it's cpu load :)
07:52:45  <Wolf01> Maybe trying with a headless linux could help instead of windows dedicated
07:53:26  <Wolf01> But the server maintainer needs to find out a 64bit machine for linux :P
08:00:35  <nielsm> okay let's try this, maybe the changed UI works in first attempt???
08:01:41  <nielsm> I think it does :o
08:02:11  <nielsm>
08:02:36  <nielsm> "close airport" and "coverage" buttons look a little tight, I want to add some padding to them
08:05:33  <nielsm>  that's not quite right
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08:07:37  <nielsm>
08:07:39  <nielsm> good
08:11:43  <peter1138> Yeah, they were not equal width before cos not enough space.
08:11:50  <Wolf01> The OTTD UI always bothered me, too many buttons in different places, the bottom 3 buttons should be in a dropdown in the title bar, maybe coverage too, as they aren't related to UI change
08:12:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window
08:13:02  <nielsm> agree there are too many buttons
08:13:17  <nielsm> this is a low effort attempt to make it less bed
08:13:19  <nielsm> bad
08:15:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window
08:16:29  <peter1138> I... didn't update widgets did I? o_O
08:16:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window
08:17:11  <peter1138> I've never actually seen a GS tutorial anyway..
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09:14:30  <Talmir> Hello :)
09:16:08  <Talmir> I have a weird question. I am a software developer and like to tinker with various game related topics in my free time. I am trying to find out how the game generates its towns, and wish to make a rought version of it for a personal project of mine (a indirect town sim where you make abstract decisions that help the town grow or shrink depending)
09:16:45  <nielsm> look in town_cmd.cpp
09:17:15  <Talmir> I have been trying to find information on this on the wiki but came up empty. From reading the source code I think (probably wrong) that the game generates a random distribution of points, and then used kdtrees to form the road system, am I on the right track?
09:17:27  <Talmir> Ahh, didnt see the reply. I will look there, thanks
09:17:37  <nielsm> nope, that's wrong :)
09:17:54  <nielsm> there's a couple different rulesets for how roads are constructed
09:18:35  <nielsm> but basically (as far as I know) towns are constructed in steps, each step starts at the town centre and random walks the road network and at some point decides this is where to expand at
09:18:42  <nielsm> and then builds a new house or new road at that point
09:19:24  <Talmir> I see :) Is a new "walker" spawned every x tiles (intersections) to make the grid like layout?
09:19:52  <nielsm> the grid layouts are just dumb modulo checks based on distance to town centre
09:20:02  <Talmir> I felt it looked too orderly for it to be a random walker function :)
09:20:17  <Talmir> I see, I may have been overthinking this then :D
09:20:37  <nielsm> in the scenario editor, try building some towns with each of the four layouts
09:20:42  <nielsm> original, improved, 2x2, 3x3
09:22:45  <Talmir> Cool :) Thanks for the help. This feels pretty obvious to me right now. I was way overthinking this.
09:44:58  <peter1138> Basically it's more adhoc than you imagined :)
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09:48:46  <andythenorth> yo
09:49:27  <Talmir> yeah, but in a good way :) I was afraid that it'd be way over my head. This I can work with. I imagine there are many more rules under the hood here that help make it look good, but its a good starting point for me , thanks guys :D
09:50:36  <andythenorth> moar and better towns? :P
09:50:37  <andythenorth> 'probably fine'
09:52:00  <Talmir> yeah :) I was asking how the towns were generated, had some crazy imaginings in my head of random distributions and kdtree partitionings, happy I asked here before going off on my own and spending the next month making anything usable for my side project
09:52:22  <nielsm> thing is, towns grow slowly and the world changes around them
09:52:28  <nielsm> so they can't have any kind of grand plan
09:52:59  <nielsm> and if initial generation and later expansion used different rules you'd have essentially double work on code maintenance
09:53:21  <andythenorth> I was thinking of lolz things
09:53:33  <andythenorth> like random rulesets for 'try to go uphill'
09:53:36  <andythenorth> or 'follow water'
09:54:59  <andythenorth> these HEQS trams are 3 tiles or 5 tiles long :P
09:55:01  <andythenorth> is that insane?
09:55:28  <nielsm> cargo trams?
09:56:01  <nielsm> 5 tiles is too much imo, 3 is okay, but more than 3 is not good
09:57:04  <nielsm> I had some thoughts about modular airports:
09:59:59  <nielsm> slight update
10:00:29  <Talmir> I would looove a modular airport :) The current ones feel a bit clunky. You place a small one at the start and later when it is time to upgrade it it is a pain in the ass to do
10:01:31  <andythenorth> I don't mind airport yak shaving
10:01:47  <andythenorth> but OpenTTD is mostly about tinkering to fix congested routes
10:01:55  <andythenorth> so modular airports adds a whole new level of that
10:03:30  <peter1138> andythenorth, station coverage display got merged!
10:03:39  <andythenorth> :D
10:03:48  <andythenorth> and NRT? o_O
10:03:52  <peter1138> Not yet :/
10:03:55  <andythenorth> oofies
10:04:05  <nielsm> NRT is delaytown
10:04:14  <LordAro> nielsm: dare i suggest that such thoughts should be put on the wiki somewhere?
10:04:15  <andythenorth> it's the most well-crafted addition in years :P
10:04:17  <peter1138> NRT is pretty ready except people keep finding bugs ;p
10:04:25  <andythenorth> do it MHL style
10:04:27  <andythenorth> ship all the bugs
10:04:32  <andythenorth> then we have to live with them
10:04:34  <peter1138> Yes, probably
10:05:03  <peter1138> nielsm, with your patch is it possible to have neither accepts nor ratings visible?
10:05:08  <peter1138> Erm, with 7540
10:05:23  <peter1138> Ah, no.
10:08:31  <nielsm>
10:08:50  <peter1138> :D
10:09:10  <nielsm> somehow I was actually logged in on the wiki
10:09:17  <peter1138> It'll get lost, but less lost than a textfile elsewhere.
10:09:20  <nielsm> so I didn't have to faf with that for 15 minutes first
10:09:46  <peter1138> < lol
10:10:03  <peter1138> NewGardens. What?
10:11:35  <peter1138> Oh wow, I didn't forget to export widgets.
10:21:18  <peter1138> Modular airports would definitely be nice.
10:21:27  <peter1138> Ability to convert existing airports to such also.
10:21:43  <peter1138> (And then the ability to remove those stupid 'new' layouts)
10:21:56  <andythenorth> can you keep the ones
10:22:02  <andythenorth> where the big one has less throughput
10:22:06  <andythenorth> than the small one
10:22:16  <andythenorth> distant-join airports? :P
10:22:21  <peter1138> Nah, if all airports are modular, then you can remove the definitions and move them to newgrf.
10:22:44  <peter1138> You can still build those layouts from modular parts, or add a newgrf that specifies such a layout.
10:23:00  <peter1138> Or something like that.
10:24:06  <peter1138> Hmm, squirrel-based map generator?
10:28:05  <nielsm> structured the modular airports page somewhat more
10:28:17  <peter1138> Strnage idea, "infinite" map by making it wrap around...
10:28:32  <nielsm> why is the margin above headings so huge in the wiki
10:28:51  <peter1138> Another strange idea, sparse maps (Minecraft style) generated as needed :p
10:29:15  <peter1138> nielsm, dunno
10:29:23  <nielsm> actually padding-top is the big value it seems
10:29:38  <andythenorth> fog of war!
10:29:43  <andythenorth> srsly
10:29:51  <andythenorth> you only get to see 25% of map at start
10:30:22  <peter1138> Not a horrible idea.
10:30:35  <peter1138> Want to build a long route? Build some smaller routes first.
10:30:38  <nielsm> "you have discovered a new town! they demand tribute to allow your railroad to continue. pay £25M, or wait 3 days (real time)"
10:30:47  <peter1138> Random starting position...
10:30:53  <peter1138> Sounds like a gamescript.
10:31:04  <nielsm> railroad tycoon style "can only connect to existing network"
10:31:07  <peter1138> Triremes lost at sea!
10:31:08  <nielsm> ugh
10:31:36  <peter1138> Hmm, that head-to-head mode that was once implemented.
10:31:44  <nielsm> andythenorth: this is where Regions come in again :)
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10:47:08  <nielsm>
10:47:15  <nielsm> may as well put that there too
10:47:25  <andythenorth> yair
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11:13:12  <peter1138> Hmm, might investigate that deep-sea patch again at some point
11:15:30  <Wolf01> Hmmm, shower, then brain standby until this night
11:17:48  * _dp_ just made a python thingy that connects to a cb server and claims town
11:17:52  <_dp_> now to remember why...
11:20:06  <peter1138> Heh
11:23:13  <_dp_> wanted some automation to catch server crash
11:23:21  <_dp_> but already catched it myself
11:23:39  <_dp_> though it seemed fun so I did the thing anyway xD
11:53:42  <planetmaker> nielsm, terrain types: (grass, rough, rocky) * (temperate / arctic / tropical), desert, swamp. Water can be a terrain type, but just could be an uint which defines a height below which there is water
11:54:23  <planetmaker> With water I'd actually prefer the same / similar implementation as with snowline height.
11:55:00  <planetmaker> as it would allow interesting game play with rising or receeding water levels
11:57:07  <planetmaker> additional terrain types maybe: semi-arid, tundra, glacier, rock outcrop
11:57:40  <andythenorth> labels!
11:57:54  <andythenorth> TUND, ARID, NUKE
11:57:57  <planetmaker> TTT. terrain translation table :P
11:58:05  <andythenorth> the last one is post-apocalypse
11:58:09  <planetmaker> :)
12:02:19  <Xaroth> It would be interesting to have height levels below the water level
12:02:24  <Xaroth> or.. depth levels
12:02:54  <Xaroth> makes tunneling under water more interesting as well.
12:04:23  <planetmaker> exactly. And would allow terraforming under water. And bridge building interesting, too, taking into account maximum bridge heights
12:04:37  <Xaroth> mhm
12:04:50  <planetmaker> terraforming = changing heights
12:04:53  <nielsm> are we talking RCT terrain again?
12:04:55  <Xaroth> maybe required depth levels for boats
12:05:02  <nielsm> or dwarf fortress?
12:05:04  <planetmaker> *that* is then possible, too
12:05:17  <planetmaker> nielsm, no, why?
12:05:23  <Xaroth> heavy barges requiring deeper water than hovercrafts
12:05:23  <nielsm> :)
12:05:45  <andythenorth> we should do things that are more lolz
12:05:51  <andythenorth> also obvs. some water should ice up
12:05:54  <andythenorth> or be marsh
12:06:06  <Xaroth> or different water levels
12:06:09  <Xaroth> i.e. mountain lakes
12:06:09  <planetmaker> hovercraft, coastal = depth 1 (as now). big ones depth 2 or so :)
12:06:22  <nielsm> inland lakes with depth would be nice yes
12:06:25  <andythenorth> also some vehicles that modify terrain :P
12:06:28  <andythenorth> much lolz
12:06:34  <planetmaker> different water levels like lakes would continue to work like rivers: shallow at same level as land
12:06:35  <Xaroth> connect them to the sea and they drain out.
12:06:46  <Xaroth> creating floods
12:06:47  <planetmaker> he :P
12:06:48  <Xaroth> and mayhem
12:06:48  <andythenorth> snowplough, dredger, etc :P
12:06:50  <Xaroth> and death
12:07:00  <planetmaker> sea-ice would be interesting :)
12:07:14  <Xaroth> until summer arrives
12:07:49  <planetmaker> and then the sea level rises and floods everything
12:07:52  <planetmaker> everysink :P
12:13:33  <_dp_> df terrain sounds fun
12:13:45  <_dp_> dig too deep and horde of demons destroys your network xD
12:14:37  <andythenorth> lava
12:14:43  <andythenorth> salt dome
12:15:52  <planetmaker> chalk mountain
12:16:23  <andythenorth> cheese lake
12:16:44  <planetmaker> don't mix that with the grease lake
12:17:48  <planetmaker> but... lava or cliff could be possible terrain types, too
12:22:00  <Wolf01> <_dp_> dig too deep and horde of demons destroys your network xD <- mines release the balrogs
12:25:09  <peter1138> Well there was a patch for deep water already.
12:25:21  <peter1138> I think it was pre-MHL though, so less feasible.
12:26:43  * _dp_ is seriously thinking of doing tower defense GS for openttd
12:28:41  <_dp_> making a horde of monsters would be a bit tricky...
12:29:21  <peter1138> Can GS spawn disasters?
12:29:43  <nielsm> afaik no
12:30:07  <nielsm> a giant swarm of UFOs arriving at once
12:30:09  <nielsm> ugh
12:30:09  <planetmaker> I don't think so ... a short coming :) We need NewGRF disasters or so... or GS disasters
12:30:12  <peter1138> GS-controlled disasters should be a thing.
12:30:56  <nielsm> need GS industry control...
12:31:07  <planetmaker> GS industry control is somewhat feasible
12:31:18  <peter1138> Earthquakes?
12:31:26  <peter1138> SimCity terrority.
12:31:32  <planetmaker> delete entities. Easily done with GS
12:31:44  <peter1138> Some things, yes.
12:32:01  <peter1138> But spawning existing disasters / disaster vehicles should be possible.
12:32:10  <nielsm> make a way for GS to supply sprites and create new disaster vehicles, and plot a path for them
12:32:24  <nielsm> and then receive events when the vehicle reaches points on the path
12:32:34  <peter1138> With new bits like specific target for UFOs.
12:32:56  <peter1138> GS to supply sprites? hmmmmmm sounds like a NewGRF thing to me.
12:33:53  <nielsm> well if you want a custom disaster vehicle with GS programming the GS has to knw about it
12:34:10  <nielsm> then have GS that can depend on a newgrf so that newgrf is always loaded when the GS is
12:34:44  <peter1138> Well, at least some way for a GS to reference a specific type of disaster vehicle, if it's present.
12:35:10  <peter1138> Then the GS can bug the end user to enable the NewGRF, rather than adding new "force this newgrf to load" functionality
12:36:04  <peter1138> But that's getting a bit ahead :p
12:36:20  <peter1138> Also without vision :p
12:36:28  <peter1138> Maybe we need whatever it was TB was working on.
12:36:34  <peter1138> @seen truebrain
12:36:35  <DorpsGek> peter1138: truebrain was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 3 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> if that is the excuse, I am done
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13:04:02  <peter1138> nielsm, /home/petern/Projects/OpenTTD/src/misc_gui.cpp:1006:15: error: 'DrawWidget' overrides a member function but is not marked 'override'
13:05:12  <peter1138> nielsm, and possibly others.
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14:02:24  <nielsm> oh
14:02:59  <nielsm> wait I didn't touch that?
14:03:03  <nielsm> or, where?
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14:57:59  <Wolf01> o/
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15:01:11  <supermop_work> yo
15:03:25  <peter1138> nielsm, master.
15:03:32  <peter1138> nielsm, does not build at the moment.
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15:04:47  <peter1138> < that commit.
15:05:43  <peter1138> nielsm, CI checks if it can rebase, but doesn't check if that rebase will compile.
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15:07:03  <nielsm> :s
15:07:21  <peter1138> Actually I think it's just github checking if it can rebase.
15:08:08  <nielsm> doesn't the CI also rebase before compiling? or was that only the old?
15:09:20  <rubenwardy> You don't hash passwords?
15:09:48  <rubenwardy> or just on the server side
15:09:55  <Samu> do be do
15:10:10  <rubenwardy> you should look into the Secure Remote Password protocol
15:10:20  <rubenwardy> Minetest uses it to protect players from servers
15:10:29  <nielsm> it's salted md5, easy to bruteforce if you want to
15:10:30  <rubenwardy> because most people are stupid, and reuse passwords
15:10:46  <rubenwardy> although, tbh "company password" sounds more like a key than a password
15:10:58  <nielsm> salt is the map seed
15:11:09  <nielsm> yes it's not supposed to be secure
15:11:11  <rubenwardy> like, "enter the key to join the server" on older games
15:11:15  <nielsm> it's to protect against griefing
15:11:24  <nielsm> not to protect your personal information
15:11:26  <rubenwardy> SRP is good for user account passwords
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15:29:11  <LordAro> nielsm: yeah, it did that briefly with the jenkins CI, but everything got split up for Azure
15:29:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7541: Fix dcb2571: Missing override keywords
15:33:12  <Samu> Round 8 got infrastructure maintenance costs enabled, coupled with very easy costs, terrain, settings
15:33:33  <Samu> it's funny to see well established AIs bankrupting
15:33:39  <Samu> AdmiralAI
15:33:39  <andythenorth> is it cat?
15:34:13  <LordAro> andythenorth: no, dog
15:34:38  <Samu> I wonder how my AI will perform
15:34:46  <Samu> it has no code handling that setting
15:35:01  <Samu> i think it will bankrupt too, if it starts spamming helicopters
15:35:08  <Samu> has a tendency to mass helis
15:37:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7541: Fix dcb2571: Missing override keywords
15:44:14  <Samu> wow, my AI did well
15:44:17  <Samu> im impressed
15:44:29  <Samu> maybe terrain being very flat was a big help
15:45:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7541: Fix dcb2571: Missing override keywords
15:45:10  <Samu> at the very end it started making helicopters, and i was starting to see company value not increasing... became stale
15:45:28  <Samu> but still i was impressed, i was honestly expecting bankrupt
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15:48:06  <Samu>
15:50:37  <peter1138> ^
15:50:56  <peter1138> Which mad person plays with toyland? o_O
15:53:37  <Samu> it's round 8
15:53:56  <Samu> every 4 rounds, starting from round 4, it's toyland
15:54:23  <Alberth> toyland has such nice industry chains
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15:56:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7418: Fix: Validate control-codes in NewGRF strings
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16:04:15  <andythenorth> quak
16:09:20  <frosch123> moo
16:19:08  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: bonus points if you switch to original toyland instead of opengfx :p
16:19:53  <V453000> peter1138: hi :P
16:20:00  <V453000> been years tho
16:20:20  <juzza1> what industry set uses all these new cargo labels at ("Kill Bill", "Hattori Hanzō's Katana" etc.)
16:20:51  <andythenorth> they're awesome
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16:21:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i wish people would stop putting such stuff in there
16:21:48  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't someone want to split that table into basic/advanced/fantasy cargos?
16:22:53  <andythenorth> was it you? o_O
16:23:00  <andythenorth> it needs to be one table
16:23:04  <andythenorth> it only serves one purpose
16:23:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i fear it was me
16:23:13  <andythenorth> and that's to check the label isn't used already
16:23:23  <andythenorth> I guess I could use browser find for that though
16:23:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i gave up because editing a table like this was... not good
16:23:34  <Eddi|zuHause> like, inserting a new column
16:23:35  <andythenorth> the table is hateful to edit in wiki
16:23:39  <andythenorth> but it's wiki so eh :(
16:23:51  <andythenorth> "nobody needs to learn html"
16:24:02  <andythenorth> just all these stupid frigging non-html languages
16:24:05  <Eddi|zuHause> html wouldn't solve my problem
16:24:10  <andythenorth> pretending not to be markup, but they are
16:24:22  <andythenorth> wiki, md, rst, bbcode, redmine blah blah
16:24:33  <Eddi|zuHause> an excel import/export
16:24:46  <andythenorth> awk!
16:24:47  <andythenorth> sed!
16:24:48  <andythenorth> python!
16:24:54  <andythenorth> rust!
16:24:56  <andythenorth> ooo
16:24:58  <andythenorth> perl
16:25:00  <andythenorth> I win :)
16:26:04  <Alberth> didn't you miss xml?
16:26:32  <andythenorth> html is xml :P
16:26:33  <frosch123> juzza1: someone who ragequit
16:26:43  <andythenorth> another one?
16:26:50  <andythenorth> but doesn't everyone rage quit?
16:26:53  <frosch123> forum drama, not irc drama
16:27:07  <Samu> it's funny how Rondje manages to win
16:27:07  * andythenorth waits for TB to un-ragequit
16:27:19  <frosch123> ragejoin sound scary
16:27:22  <Samu> basically, towns grow and end up connected to each other
16:27:31  <Samu> so it starts building
16:27:48  <Samu> it only takes a really long time to happen
16:27:53  <andythenorth> I have definitely ragejoined stuff in my lifetime
16:28:08  <frosch123> sounds like politics
16:28:42  <andythenorth> I did actually ragejoin a political party a few years
16:28:43  <andythenorth> ago
16:28:46  <andythenorth> then I ragequit
16:31:44  <Alberth> so many new trains, I should play openttd again
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16:38:11  <Samu> trAIns vs SnakeAI was real close, 100% vs 97%
16:38:22  <Wolf01> Bye, tomorrow.
16:38:23  <Samu> snakeAI did well with aircraft
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16:38:41  <Samu> bankrupted the first time though, but then restarted better
16:38:52  <Samu> but didn't win
16:43:16  <supermop_work> andythenorth: had to ragequit mensa
16:43:38  <Hazzard> I had a feature idea, a "go to depot and renew vehicle" order
16:43:43  <andythenorth> supermop_work: mega lolz
16:43:51  <andythenorth> Hazzard: what does it do?
16:44:48  <Hazzard> It would renew the vehicle, rebuying the engine so the age goes back to 0
16:44:58  <Hazzard> for getting high station ratings
16:45:00  <andythenorth> write a GS to do that
16:45:04  <andythenorth> oh wait
16:45:08  <andythenorth> "write a GS to do that"
16:45:11  <andythenorth> that's better
16:47:02  <Hazzard> Gamescripts need to be shared with all clients in multiplayer?
16:47:08  <Hazzard> (just want to make sure I understand)
16:53:14  <andythenorth> I was trolling sorry
16:55:14  <Hazzard> Lol
16:59:35  <Hazzard> Would a gamescript not work though? :P
17:00:34  <andythenorth> dunno
17:01:42  <Hazzard> seems like these GSes are mainly alternate game modes
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18:03:19  <Eddi|zuHause> while i'm reordering this cargo table, do i just plain remove all cargos which do not mention a GRF they are contained in?
18:05:15  <andythenorth> dunnno
18:05:18  <andythenorth> hard to know
18:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> we should have some hard rule that you can only include cargos if your industry set is in a usable state
18:06:13  <Eddi|zuHause> to have a handle against people who just add their ideas...
18:07:27  <andythenorth> you can be the guardian of that page :)
18:08:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a horrible idea :p
18:12:11  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i'll remove them for now...
18:15:43  <Eddi|zuHause> now, next i wanted to split the FIRS cargos in basic and advanced... do you have some table i could use for reference?
18:18:46  <andythenorth> release or push?
18:19:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
18:19:40  <V453000> checkmate
18:20:38  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: any objections if i move YETI into the "fantasy/scifi" section?
18:20:44  <Eddi|zuHause> the cargo, i mean
18:21:02  <V453000> WAT
18:21:18  <V453000> why? :d
18:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- i want to split up this table
18:21:40  <V453000> oof that's a lot bigger than I remember it
18:21:45  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
18:21:54  <V453000> how much of it is andy's fault
18:21:54  <Eddi|zuHause> it's become unwieldy
18:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> some
18:22:21  <V453000> move yetis where ever you want :) I don't really care tbh
18:22:59  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i want to add a "fantasy/scifi setting" for things like toyland, mars, wasteland, etc.
18:23:24  <V453000> do :)
18:23:35  <V453000>  /me is messing with articulated nonsense
18:23:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds annoying :p
18:24:28  <V453000> the purpose is good
18:24:52  <V453000> worse part will be when I want to visually switch between 2x4 and 8 unit vehicles
18:25:00  <V453000> need to do a more wtf articulation :D
18:25:23  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: like the HEQS trams?
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18:25:53  <V453000> I'm not sure what HEQS trams do
18:26:18  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: they change length and hide some articulated parts
18:26:39  <V453000> oh
18:26:42  <V453000> wait you can change length?
18:26:44  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause:
18:26:46  <andythenorth> is push
18:26:58  <V453000> I thought you can't do that
18:27:11  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yeah, if you forbid refitting at stations, you can change length based on which refit
18:27:23  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you can't change the number of articulated parts
18:27:34  <V453000> I see
18:28:02  <V453000> I might just make a 5-part 8/8 instead without hax
18:28:19  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that table does not show the economies where the cargos are used?
18:28:27  <V453000> with length of units 1-2-2-2-1 I get 8 in total and centers in the middle, and in the 4/8 halves' centers
18:29:52  <V453000> I think I had that functional in one of my prototype newgrfs
18:29:59  <Eddi|zuHause> so you either show a sprite with x-x-A-x-x or x-B-x-B-x?
18:30:05  <V453000> yes
18:30:08  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: click on the name
18:30:14  <andythenorth> it's an interwebs :)
18:30:28  <V453000> the only problem this causes is increased speed on curves, but in this case that shouldn't matter much
18:30:41  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: grmbl
18:31:02  <V453000> I wanted to apply the same idea to all of NUTS wagons and merge all wagons into 1... but I can't do that unless I can fix the curve length speeds
18:31:02  <andythenorth> you can compile it yourself and modify the table :P
18:31:04  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i need to make a JOIN on those interwebz
18:31:06  <andythenorth> it's trivial
18:31:15  <andythenorth> I can't do it for you now
18:31:26  <andythenorth> in fact this is all outdated anyway
18:31:44  <V453000> andy's vehicle lengthening sounds interesting, I wonder if I could fix it that way
18:31:44  <andythenorth> I unfortunately moved FIRS to github
18:31:56  <andythenorth> so all docs publishing is lost
18:31:56  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't matter, it's a wiki, it's meant to be outdated :p
18:32:06  <andythenorth> FIRS docs are outdated :P
18:32:13  <V453000> eh probably not, nvm
18:32:22  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: fwiw, i don't think andy understands the lengthening :p
18:32:39  <andythenorth> I understand the nfo
18:32:52  <andythenorth> the specific rules were beyond my capability :P
18:33:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder if i still have that file
18:33:24  <V453000> XD well the lengthening doesn't help my case as the curve lenght is mostly decided from number of units in some length if I understand that correctly
18:33:29  <V453000> but yeah whatever :)
18:33:44  <Eddi|zuHause> curve speed is a wtf
18:33:54  <V453000> yes
18:34:09  <Eddi|zuHause> it needs to be fixed separately, i never worried about it
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18:35:22  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you had ascii art :P
18:35:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i did
18:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't find it
18:43:33  <Eddi|zuHause> other annoying thing, your table is sorted on name, not label :p
18:46:31  <andythenorth> it has javascript sort no?
18:46:35  <andythenorth> just hidden
18:46:41  <andythenorth> missing UI
18:47:00  <andythenorth> hmm
18:47:06  <andythenorth> I should not have moved FIRS to github
18:47:08  <andythenorth> it was a mistake
18:47:23  <Eddi|zuHause> talking about this "table"
18:48:33  <frosch123> andythenorth: now you can't blame hg anymore?
18:49:02  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah that table no sort :P
18:49:32  <andythenorth> also why do you need the economy? o_O
18:50:08  <andythenorth> hmm
18:50:16  <andythenorth> is there some way I could slave hg to github?
18:50:37  <andythenorth> so that I can pull changes into the hg repo?
18:51:01  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like you took a few wrong turns you need to back out of :p
18:51:18  <andythenorth> is this what AWS Lambdas are for?
18:51:47  <andythenorth> also
18:51:58  <andythenorth> does anyone remember when web publishing was easy?
18:52:07  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i can't find "Packaging" in the wiki table
18:52:11  <andythenorth> you just had an sftp server, and apache in front of it
18:52:21  <andythenorth> now all of that is impossible, because cloud
18:52:45  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: MSNP
18:53:10  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, right
18:54:37  <andythenorth> wonder if I can serve FIRS docs from my home internet?
18:54:53  <andythenorth> I could buy a raspberry pi or something
18:57:12  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't github have some builtin docs publishing?
18:57:53  <andythenorth> it has a very specific implementation of github pages
18:58:02  <andythenorth> which does one thing and one thing only
18:58:32  <andythenorth> and is oriented to publishing a single revision of a website
18:58:35  <Eddi|zuHause> remember when you could make websites with HTML?
18:58:38  <andythenorth> preferably compile with jekyll
18:58:55  <andythenorth> Everything Has Gone Wrong
19:00:02  <V453000> does any other cargo than GOOD use the "automatically-double-vehicle-capacity" nonsense?
19:00:11  <andythenorth> YETI!
19:00:13  <andythenorth> NOPE
19:01:04  <V453000> seriously that thing is weird
19:02:19  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sugar cane is not a thing anymore?
19:02:32  <frosch123> V453000: 2x goods, 2x mail, 4x pax
19:02:55  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not currently
19:02:58  <andythenorth> will return probably
19:02:59  <frosch123> V453000: 2x sweets
19:04:10  <V453000> I'm not getting x2 on mail
19:04:20  <V453000> didn't check out the rest
19:12:18  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that picture in the forums, looks like you didn't set the 32px flag correctly?
19:12:28  <frosch123> hmm, i may have to build a second rocket silo
19:12:35  <frosch123> but it would have so much downtime
19:15:33  <V453000> I didn't know that flag existed
19:15:50  <V453000> does the flag make it draw the same way as on horizontal diagonals?
19:16:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
19:16:38  <V453000> could try
19:16:41  <V453000> where do I put it?
19:16:57  <Eddi|zuHause> in properties somewhere?
19:17:04  <Eddi|zuHause> NML or NFO?
19:17:16  <V453000> NML of course
19:18:48  <andythenorth> is there a flag?
19:18:50  <andythenorth> :P
19:19:03  <V453000> tbh I'm a bit sceptical it will actually look better
19:19:09  <V453000> but lets see
19:19:21  <frosch123> V453000: "train_width_32_px=1;" somewhere at the top after the grf{}
19:19:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it's a grf-wide flag
19:20:28  <frosch123> V453000: <- like that
19:20:35  <V453000> nice
19:21:29  <V453000> that's much easier than I expected :P
19:22:01  <andythenorth> oic
19:22:02  <andythenorth> train_width_32_px = 1;
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19:22:06  <andythenorth> very horse already
19:22:46  <V453000> yeah I guess that looks more proper
19:23:36  <andythenorth> so how can I publish some static html + images etc to a public web address?
19:23:54  <andythenorth> needs to be in directory structure corresponding to commit revs
19:24:14  <planetmaker> <andythenorth> so all docs publishing is lost <-- why don't you publish the docs anymore on coop bundles server?
19:24:15  <andythenorth> build is in Azure Pipelines
19:24:32  <andythenorth> there's no way to?
19:24:48  <andythenorth> unless I have hg slaved to git?
19:24:48  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: because apparently he's unable to unplug the old build process and plug the new repo location into it
19:24:51  <andythenorth> and have jenkins do it
19:25:01  <andythenorth> well it has to be done on AP no?
19:25:12  <andythenorth> but I don't really understand AP
19:25:18  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's no reason why jenkis couldn't pull from github
19:25:48  <andythenorth> how?
19:26:08  <andythenorth> at work I'd just give jenkins the repo address
19:26:18  <andythenorth> but it's all configured to expect that already
19:26:57  <andythenorth> jenkins seems quite broken currently, I don't know how to fix it
19:26:58  <andythenorth>
19:27:54  <planetmaker> that broken is your build script... it failed on some *** [generated/graphics] Error 1
19:28:01  <planetmaker> which is code you wrote
19:28:04  <V453000> =D apparently my side-views of maglev wagons are not drawn for width_32 :D
19:28:18  <planetmaker> it's ugly to have these zillions of profiling python lines there... but they're harmless
19:28:55  <andythenorth> so  how do I  fix it?
19:29:09  <planetmaker> hm, chameleon not found
19:29:14  <andythenorth> where are the images for the jenkins VMs kept?
19:29:21  <planetmaker> 00:06.798 ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'chameleon'
19:29:23  <andythenorth> or are they configured with ansible or something?
19:29:37  <planetmaker> no. It's ugly hand-crafted cruft
19:30:30  <andythenorth> hmm
19:30:46  <andythenorth> the sort-of-plan was to move grfs to github and azure pipelines
19:30:50  <andythenorth> but then TB ragequit
19:31:20  <planetmaker> so, seems chameleon was not installed when python was upgrade
19:31:22  <planetmaker> d
19:31:36  <andythenorth> so should we switch plan, and make coop stuff more alive?
19:31:48  <andythenorth> or jump to 3rd party things nobody understands?
19:32:04  <frosch123> andythenorth: using hosted stuff works for standard stuff
19:32:17  <frosch123> it works fine for git repos and building c++ applications
19:32:18  <andythenorth> it's a bit scary that all of openttd build is now on AP
19:32:38  <frosch123> but i think building grf may be too much off the road
19:32:40  <planetmaker> the only way I really see make coop stuff more alive is to have a 2nd server where I can re-install all stuff from scratch. And when that's done, move the whole lot back to the current server (the current contract is nice as in cheap IPv4 addresses... and server is ok)
19:33:11  <andythenorth> frosch123: building grfs on AP was pretty quick, once I understood the horrible UI
19:33:23  <planetmaker> unfortunately it seems I fried my old PC... so I don't have it as the option I initially planned to use it :|
19:33:24  <andythenorth> it's also really slow, because it reinstalls all deps for ever build
19:33:35  <andythenorth> every *
19:33:56  <planetmaker> so... you build grfs on azure?
19:33:57  <frosch123> andythenorth: is it really? every grf would have to do that
19:34:16  <frosch123> you need packaged stuff, which will get harder with nml bundles and nrt and stuff
19:34:19  <andythenorth> well that is the problem
19:34:22  <andythenorth>
19:34:38  <andythenorth> I got it working in about 2 days
19:34:47  <andythenorth> but not in a way that most authors would ever be able to do
19:34:56  <planetmaker> well. Now make it generic that g30rge can use it :)
19:34:59  <andythenorth> it requires a lot of understanding of github and AP
19:35:00  <V453000> :D
19:35:10  <andythenorth> apparently it can all be templated in GH
19:35:25  <andythenorth> but then I think TB over-committed, which only ends in maintainer overload + quit
19:35:49  <andythenorth> what's the least we could do, besides 'nothing'?
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19:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause> regexp of the day: "([^"])
19:40:44  <andythenorth> planetmaker: so what is bundles?
19:40:50  <andythenorth> the implementation
19:41:06  <planetmaker> bundles? It's a disk with ssh access
19:41:19  <planetmaker> and a webserver attached to it
19:41:56  <planetmaker> though... on devzone it is mounted directly
19:42:10  <andythenorth> how does it handle creating the version dirs?
19:42:21  <planetmaker> it's done by jenkins
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19:42:57  <planetmaker> it's part of the compilation / deployment script each project brings. There's a default which works with hg
19:43:12  <planetmaker> which is used when no build script is provided
19:43:14  <Eddi|zuHause> {| class="wikitable <-- is that weird syntax, or just missing a "?
19:43:55  <planetmaker>
19:44:13  <frosch123> missing a "
19:44:19  <planetmaker> hm, no
19:44:25  <planetmaker> actually... not there. hm
19:45:33  <andythenorth> so how is nml getting built by jenkins?
19:47:56  <planetmaker> it is built by that script. I just wonder how the deployment on bundles works :P
19:48:07  <planetmaker> that script and the one without the 'post' in the name
19:50:09  <planetmaker> and... I press 'build' because of hooks or so
19:54:40  <andythenorth> so is jenkins just connfigure to poll GH for nml?
19:54:43  <andythenorth> configured *
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20:12:38  <nielsm> I maybe ought to look at some more of those reported kdtree bugs in detail...
20:15:19  <LordAro> mm
20:19:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7530: Crash in kdtree.hpp when removing track in development version
20:20:49  <planetmaker> andythenorth, basically yes
20:21:45  <Eddi|zuHause> how, if i add one column, i have to adjust colspan by 2?
20:25:17  <andythenorth> because everything is awful
20:25:34  <Eddi|zuHause> there must be a mistake somewhere, but i don't see it
20:28:10  <andythenorth> html should be generated
20:28:13  <andythenorth> from data
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20:31:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i feel a bit uneasy to just change this page, instead of making some temporary review version...
20:34:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the orginal colspan is already wrong
20:36:07  <Eddi|zuHause> ah well... here we go
20:37:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7481: kdtree.hpp crash when Oil Rig is removed
20:37:30  <Eddi|zuHause> there are probably a few questionable decisions buried in there:
20:38:24  <LordAro> nielsm: i had to run the game for a long time (>300 years) until the crash occurred
20:38:29  <andythenorth> nice purple
20:38:32  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i seem to have missed the alloy steel and stuff
20:38:50  <Eddi|zuHause> might be a bit too strong purble
20:38:53  <Eddi|zuHause> purple
20:39:00  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: your section titles make no sense
20:39:09  <frosch123> basic cargos: present when no newgrf is used
20:39:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that might need some iteration :)
20:41:01  <Eddi|zuHause> probably some more FIRS cargos that should be moved
20:41:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but that might have been a problem with the outdated docs
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20:42:40  <andythenorth> where's kill bill gone? :P
20:42:47  <nielsm> eh I'll do that then...
20:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm done with this for today, need something to free my brain
20:46:07  <andythenorth> it's probably better
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21:00:24  <peter1138> Didn't I have a rant about that stupid 32px thing the other day? :P
21:00:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i wasn't going to bring that up :p
21:03:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gymnasiast commented on issue #7530: Crash in kdtree.hpp when removing track in development version
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21:09:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #7481: kdtree.hpp crash when Oil Rig is removed
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21:28:50  <andythenorth> bed
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21:42:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type
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21:56:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #7542: Fix #7255: Prevent crashlog corruption by only printing the 20 most recent news messages
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22:15:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Teletoby12000 opened issue #7543: suddenly it crashes without any reason
22:18:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7543: suddenly it crashes without any reason
22:23:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Teletoby12000 commented on issue #7543: suddenly it crashes without any reason
22:31:58  *** gelignite has quit IRC
22:33:48  *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
23:18:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #6605: Crash: loading savegame
23:40:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #6605: Crash: loading savegame

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