Log for #openttd on 27th April 2019:
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00:14:12  <Artea> towns with 90k population is insane :o
00:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the highest i heard about was 3M
00:15:04  <Artea> well
00:15:07  <Artea> let's reach that
00:15:14  <Artea> my goal is 1000 years
00:15:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it probably involves optimizing the road layout
00:15:57  <Artea> there is zones with 4 town fused
00:16:18  <Eddi|zuHause> that probably won't help either :p
00:16:30  <Artea> it's a big map ;P
00:16:54  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not so much about the size of the map
00:17:15  <Eddi|zuHause> but at some point the growth speed of towns cancels out with the decay speed of houses
00:17:49  <Artea> I was wondering that
00:18:02  <Eddi|zuHause> so you want to max out the growth speed by avoiding that the growth algorithm gets caught in dead end roads
00:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause> (also, you can use NewGRFs who provide houses with bigger population and longer lifetime)
00:19:18  <Artea> I need to review the newgrfs in next version
00:20:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you want to avoid dead end roads that end at rails, oceans or other unbuildable points
00:21:09  <Eddi|zuHause> and sometimes it helps if you build tunnels from the town center to the outskirts
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00:23:14  <Artea> names with more than 100k population: Sillyton and Tastyweed
00:25:00  <Artea> is hard to control the towns now
00:31:33  <Artea> just made Sillyton lose 8k population :(
00:31:39  <Artea> time to sleep
00:31:43  <Artea> good night
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06:15:32  <Alberth> o/
06:19:04  <andythenorth> hi
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07:10:57  <peter1138> Hi
07:13:09  <LordAro> moin
07:13:15  <peter1138> Oops, I broke the scenario editor.
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07:14:50  <Wolf01> o/
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07:34:30  <Alberth> o/
07:34:36  <LordAro> o/
07:35:08  <LordAro> Alberth: feel like looking into 6605 a bit more? :)
07:36:38  <Alberth> I read your explorations, didn't help much in understanding what happens
07:37:25  <Alberth> hmm, maybe add a watch on the poolsize changing?
07:42:06  <LordAro> watchpoints make everything super slow
07:42:32  <LordAro> i suspect that there actually 5 i valid depots in the savegame
07:42:47  <LordAro> invalid*
07:43:19  <LordAro> though i've no idea how they got there
07:46:22  <Alberth> set a break point at the afterload "thingie 5" point
07:46:32  <Alberth> then add a watch
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07:53:22  <LordAro> isn't that too late though? the depot pool has already been initialised by that point
07:53:34  <peter1138> It's all too late cos it's already happened ;)
07:54:36  <Alberth> it's a bug in an earlier conversion?
07:55:02  <peter1138> The savegame is already broken.
07:57:00  <peter1138> Ok, should I add the show-coverage button to the scenario editor town window, or just ignore coverage there?
07:57:16  <Alberth> ie in an earlier upgrade to the current version of the savegame thus
07:57:30  <peter1138> Is it?
07:57:38  <LordAro> or in how the game was originally saved
07:57:39  <peter1138> I don't think so.
07:57:40  <Alberth> I don't know
07:57:47  <peter1138> It's just a broken save as far as I know.
07:58:02  <peter1138> But one that's been reported more than once.
07:58:07  <LordAro> peter1138: seems useful to add it to the scenario editor?
07:58:47  <Alberth> adding it to the SE would be useful, people may want to pixel-perfect put down industries etc
07:58:50  <peter1138> Ok.
07:59:45  <peter1138> Urgh, debug build loading slow :p
08:01:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
08:03:40  <andythenorth> meh old Severn Bridge is closed
08:03:48  <andythenorth> such wind
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08:18:42  <Wolf01> I think I got lost there once, playing geoguessr
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08:32:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
08:41:44  <LordAro> ok, can't use IsDepotTile inside Load_DEPT, it's too early
08:41:48  <LordAro> they're all invalid :)
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08:51:11  <LordAro> alright, that actually works, interesting
08:51:35  <LordAro> i feel like this is another savegame conversion bug
08:56:00  <Alberth> looks like it :)
08:56:33  <LordAro> i do believe i have a fix for the invalid depots though
08:56:38  <LordAro> not sure how correct it is, but..
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09:00:25  <LordAro> and also fixes 6507
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09:10:09  <Alberth> nice
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09:41:38  <Samu> hi
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09:56:48  <Samu> aha, finally a round where my AI sucks
09:59:34  <Samu> doesn't even build
09:59:43  <Samu> looks like 100k is too little for a route
10:01:27  <Samu> this song is awesome but the video is horrible...
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10:04:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
10:04:27  <andythenorth> weird forums day
10:04:30  <andythenorth> is NRT merged then?
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10:30:44  <Wolf01> 7km walk, not so much tired but completely wet
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10:34:42  <Artea> hello
10:37:42  <nielsm> moo
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10:39:28  <Artea> GoG is selling Theme Hospital for 5.29 euros
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10:46:36  <andythenorth> Hog Hog Hog
10:46:44  <andythenorth> it's big it's wood it's Hog
10:47:54  <Artea> lol
10:50:52  <Artea> 900+ years
10:51:01  <Artea> so happy my vps can handle OTTD
10:58:34  <Artea> sad max loan is capped
10:58:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #7534: GSGoal.QuestionClient sends message to wrong client
11:04:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
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11:20:47  <andythenorth> much and very sprites
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11:40:28  <alekseiytalanov> Good classic graphic for oldschool
11:42:47  <alekseiytalanov> This is game OpenTTD Configure this game setup graphic and settings and setup game with NewGRF and start transport business
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11:53:27  <LordAro> hmm.
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12:07:13  <peter1138> Wolf01, rained or... sweaty? :p
12:09:07  <andythenorth> LordAro: do we use it? o_O
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12:12:43  <LordAro> andythenorth: i'm not actually sure
12:12:52  <LordAro> it was the unreliable part of ...something
12:13:00  <LordAro> but i can't remember if that got fixed when azure happened
12:13:08  <LordAro> @seen Truebrain
12:13:08  <DorpsGek> LordAro: Truebrain was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 5 days, 18 hours, 12 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> if that is the excuse, I am done
12:13:10  <LordAro> :(
12:15:34  * andythenorth tries to figure it out from
12:16:02  <andythenorth> not finding anything from searching
12:17:50  <LordAro> well it definitely uses docker
12:17:57  <LordAro> and that will use dockerhub by default
12:19:28  <nielsm> yeah it publishes to docker hub
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12:19:56  <nielsm>
12:21:30  <nielsm> doesn't look like there is any unusual activity from the public feed
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12:24:13  <peter1138> Ok so shall I add code to handle the case when that Coverage button is missing insteaD?
12:24:41  <nielsm> having it to show town boundaries could be nice too
12:24:54  <nielsm> maybe even the town zones
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12:39:54  <andythenorth> so is the update to the website image expected?
12:39:57  * andythenorth has NFI how it all works
12:40:17  <nielsm> yes, the website is updated every time a new nightly is uploaded
12:40:21  <andythenorth> ok
12:40:29  <nielsm> since the links need to be fixed to point to the new nightly
12:40:37  <andythenorth> understood
12:43:47  <peter1138> Urgh
12:44:58  <nielsm> working on script interface for querying efficiency data from
12:45:25  <nielsm> I'm thinking making just the percent rating available to AI, but also making the raw numbers (cargo-tiles travelled and ditto delivered) available to GS
12:48:55  <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't it be easier to have both with the same data access?
12:49:25  <nielsm> the difference is just adding @api -ai to the declaration or not, afaik
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12:49:51  <nielsm> but the raw numbers aren't available to human players so an AI shouldn't be able to get them either
12:57:35  <peter1138> Right.
12:57:57  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the rationale for hiding it from the player?
12:57:58  <peter1138> Switched back to Mate from Gnome. At least I can resize OpenTTD properly :p
12:58:32  <peter1138> I guess it's not so much hiding rather than not displaying too much mostly irrelevant data?
12:58:46  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: mostly that they're very large numbers that are difficult to make sense of
12:58:53  <peter1138> (Like articulated overtaking vehicles isn't "disabled")
12:58:59  <nielsm> difficult to fit into the UI in a sensible way
12:59:35  * peter1138 ponders support for house tile layouts...
12:59:48  <Eddi|zuHause> NoOvertaking branch next?
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13:00:51  <peter1138> I don't know. Maybe it's something NRT could address?
13:01:01  <peter1138> "Highways" are currently useless.
13:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i feel like it's out of scope for NRT
13:01:26  <Eddi|zuHause> feels very orthogonal
13:01:29  <peter1138> Sort of.
13:01:55  <Eddi|zuHause> but it ties in with all the state machine bullshit
13:02:02  <peter1138> Ehhh
13:02:19  <peter1138> Yeah, 3-lane highways might be nice.
13:02:28  <peter1138> And, perhaps, 1-lane tracks.
13:02:58  <Eddi|zuHause> 1 lane tram on 2 lane road
13:03:23  <peter1138> There's no provision for tram/road compatibility :/
13:03:34  <peter1138> Like, tram down the middle between two lanes.
13:04:20  <Eddi|zuHause> lane offsets
13:04:27  <peter1138> Maybe the game should define... yes, that.
13:04:46  <nielsm> bool do_overtake = (my_max_speed > blocking_vehicle_max_speed + 5) && ((my_max_speed - blocking_vehicle_max_speed) * blocking_vehicle_length < distance_to_next_intersection);
13:04:51  <nielsm> there solved the problem for you
13:04:52  <nielsm> next!
13:05:19  <peter1138> nielsm, now make it an option to satisfy the "it should be an option like 90 degrees" ... o_O
13:05:42  <nielsm> hell no make that a newgrf flag on road types
13:05:45  <peter1138> Hmm, so if NRT gets to define lines... maybe it defines the direction of a lane as well.
13:06:04  <peter1138> Overtaking trams!
13:06:09  <nielsm> heh
13:06:19  <Eddi|zuHause> parallel tram stations would be nice
13:06:20  <nielsm> well could maybe have "tram lanes"?
13:06:42  <nielsm> like boulevards with tram tracks in the middle
13:06:47  <andythenorth> all these things
13:07:05  <Eddi|zuHause> also: two-tile wide road, 2 road lanes ->, 1 tram lane ->, 1 tram lane <-, 2 road lanes <-
13:07:48  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be space for 4 lanes on a tile
13:07:53  <andythenorth>
13:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause> (with no sidewalk)
13:08:17  <peter1138> 7 different lanes?
13:08:18  <andythenorth> also bus-stops :P
13:08:53  <nielsm> hmm, I wonder if it really is right to use just int32 for these cargotiles values
13:09:03  <Eddi|zuHause> problem with offset lanes is, how to make transition tiles?
13:09:09  <andythenorth> newgrf lanes!
13:09:11  <andythenorth> meh
13:09:24  <Eddi|zuHause> also, height offset?
13:09:44  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, quite.
13:11:23  <peter1138> So, er...
13:11:28  <peter1138> Yeah, how to transition?
13:11:36  <peter1138> And not via hormones.
13:12:02  <Eddi|zuHause> <insert inappropriate comment here>
13:13:18  <peter1138> And... we already have one-way roads via map bits.
13:13:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that should probably be ripped out then
13:13:41  * peter1138 attempts to think.
13:14:34  <peter1138> Maybe consider them as they are: no-entry flags
13:14:39  <Eddi|zuHause> transition tiles would work like crossing, composed of trackbits?
13:14:40  <nielsm> how would a transition from regular road with tram track to two one-way roads (opposite directions) in parallel with tram track in the middle even look?
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13:14:56  <nielsm> just visually
13:15:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the transition is in the center of the tile, provided by the NewGRF
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13:16:22  <Eddi|zuHause> also, bidirectional tram track, but no signalling? :)
13:18:38  <peter1138> Okay... so...
13:19:25  <peter1138> I guess we don't want new road types for each possible lane combination?
13:19:29  <peter1138> Or do we?
13:19:47  <Eddi|zuHause> what i'm imagining now is: each roadtype defines valid lane configurations, and the configuration is stored with the trackbit somehow
13:19:59  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, that's where I was just headed.
13:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause> then the NewGRF is responsible to provide graphics for all configuration combinations
13:20:12  <peter1138> Then it can use varactions to pick the graphics based on the lanes.
13:21:07  <peter1138> There's a few spare bits lying around.
13:25:10  <nielsm>   bad edit, I can't think of a good way to make the transition here
13:25:20  <nielsm> that doesn't involve a 2x2 tile prefab
13:26:53  <LordAro> peter1138: fixed the "maglev under bridges gets converted to standard rail" issue
13:26:58  <LordAro> guess what caused it :)
13:27:05  <peter1138> :p
13:27:21  <peter1138> A bug!
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13:27:56  <LordAro> correct!
13:28:56  <peter1138> Tell me then :p
13:31:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #7546: Fix #6507: Don't try to load invalid depots from older savegames
13:31:26  <LordAro> peter1138: ^ get told
13:32:16  <peter1138>  Yay
13:32:21  <LordAro> :)
13:32:51  <peter1138> Someone mentioned old saves were broken a few months ago but never provided any examples for me to work with.
13:33:01  <peter1138> And never filed a bug, so it got forgotten.
13:33:08  <peter1138> And by someone, I mean a dev.
13:33:22  <LordAro> well there were 2 examples in the previously mentioned bug reports :p
13:33:30  <LordAro> i think nielsm mentioned TTO saves were broken
13:33:37  <peter1138> No.
13:33:44  <LordAro> and i imagine no one's tried TTD saves in a while
13:33:45  <peter1138> This was several months ago.
13:34:08  <peter1138> And it was an off the cuff remark in IRC. Not here.
13:34:28  <peter1138> So that's a backport candidate :p
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13:35:01  <peter1138> But hey, that's not why depots were wrong ;p
13:35:11  <peter1138> And those bug reports were about crashing on load, not wrong rail types.
13:35:33  <LordAro> true, but once you fixed those issues... ;)
13:35:53  <peter1138> You'd have to look around the map to notice it was wrong as well, as it wasn't specifically reported.
13:35:56  <peter1138> You got lucky.
13:36:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7546: Fix #6507: Don't try to load invalid depots from older savegames
13:37:08  <LordAro> heh, 12 year old me
13:38:06  <peter1138> Damn, I was ~27 when I started tinkering with OpenTTD.
13:38:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i was ~12 when i started playing TTO
13:38:44  <LordAro> yeah, but you're all old
13:38:45  <LordAro> :p
13:39:02  <LordAro> i think i was introduced to TTD when i was 6 or 7
13:39:11  <LordAro> not sure i ever played TTO, though i think we had it
13:39:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i found TTD(Patch) around 2001-ish
13:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and OpenTTD around 2006?
13:41:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7546: Fix #6507: Don't try to load invalid depots from older savegames
13:41:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
13:42:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7545: Fix 81d335b: Coverage button missing from town window in scenario editor.
13:44:49  <Artea> nationalbank(w).zip
13:44:50  <Artea> :o
13:45:37  <Artea> is together with OTTD 0.3.4
13:46:29  <Artea> bah
13:46:34  <Artea> thought I had TT
13:47:25  <peter1138> Hmm, I have to remember how to start pulseaudio on Windows :/
13:47:37  <LordAro> ...on Windows?
13:47:50  <peter1138> Yes, I use it to get sound out of my Hyper-V Linux VM :p
13:48:05  <LordAro> ew.
13:48:44  <peter1138> Hyper-V assumes you're running Windows in it and using Remote Desktop, so just does audio that way.
13:49:27  <LordAro> ooh, found another save that crashes
13:49:32  <LordAro> this one looks kdtree related
13:49:39  <peter1138> Yeah, that happens.
13:49:46  <peter1138> ProZone 13 is one such save.
13:49:54  <peter1138> There's a PR to fix it
13:50:12  <LordAro> which one?
13:50:17  <peter1138> Problem is the usual dependency issues :(
13:50:31  <nielsm>  looks a bit awkward maybe
13:50:40  <peter1138> 7398
13:51:05  <peter1138> Basically it depends on the map array before the map array has been converted.
13:51:31  <peter1138> Profit: £29,573 £154,587
13:51:37  <peter1138> Efficiency: 76% 73%
13:51:40  <peter1138> Somehow
13:52:01  <nielsm> I did consider making it a table
13:52:04  <LordAro> peter1138: confirmed, that PR fixes it
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13:52:59  <nielsm> but the profit numbers can also get lartge
13:53:12  <nielsm> especially if you use currencies like yen
13:53:35  <peter1138> Well, it can get wider?
13:53:40  <peter1138> Depends what's worse :p
13:57:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
13:57:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7371: Kdtree is built too early in savegame loading process
13:57:46  <Artea>
13:57:47  <Artea> :o
13:58:09  <Artea> TT is back :O
13:58:20  <LordAro> except it's actually locomotion
13:58:29  <peter1138> Yeah, Locomotion.
13:58:51  <peter1138> Also, not for Windowsx.
13:58:53  <peter1138> -x
13:58:56  <peter1138> Been out a few years.
13:59:15  <frosch123> Artea: <- there is a whole forum section about it
14:00:29  <Artea> I'm so off I didn't knew
14:00:48  <peter1138> There was even a bunch of tt-forumers who met up with... someone? CS even? about it.
14:01:00  <frosch123> nah, with the marketing guy
14:01:04  <frosch123> not cs
14:01:12  <peter1138> Yeah, figures :)
14:02:17  <Artea> btw
14:02:40  <Artea> I was talking to my friend yesterday and he asked something that I'm curious
14:03:08  <Artea> is there an year cap or goes on forever ?
14:03:23  <peter1138> Try it.
14:03:37  <Artea> I am
14:03:44  <Artea> that is one of the goals of my server
14:04:08  <frosch123> in which year did you start?
14:04:09  <Artea> 	2905-04-21
14:04:12  <Artea> 1984
14:04:21  <frosch123> good luck :)
14:04:37  <Artea> 900 years already pass
14:04:50  <frosch123> in how many days?
14:05:03  * LordAro looks up the maximum year
14:05:07  <LordAro> hmm, might take a while
14:05:11  <frosch123> LordAro: don't spoil it
14:05:22  <Artea> 9 days
14:05:29  <LordAro> i'm all about not spoiling things at the moment
14:05:38  <LordAro> bloody endgame and not getting to see it until tuesday
14:06:13  <peter1138> It was good.
14:06:17  <Artea> towns already reach 100k
14:06:24  <Artea> ;)
14:06:31  <frosch123> Artea: make contact with some cryosleep company
14:07:07  <frosch123> or write a letter to your grand-grand-children
14:07:12  <Artea> lol
14:08:21  <Artea> capped loan sux :(
14:08:55  <LordAro> in 900 years you're not sitting on silly piles of money?
14:08:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
14:09:02  <Artea> I am
14:09:11  <Artea> 878B
14:09:18  <LordAro> oh, inflation on?
14:09:23  <Artea> yes
14:09:26  <LordAro> ha
14:09:33  <Artea> and too many aircraft crashes
14:09:41  <Artea> even with reduced mode
14:11:07  <Artea> I wanted to start AroAI yesterday
14:11:30  <Artea> but don't know
14:11:36  <Artea> seems off now after so long
14:11:51  <Artea> still have player playing
14:11:56  <Artea> also dp joined yesterday
14:12:30  <LordAro> i'm not sure there are any AIs that are properly balanced to actually play against
14:12:53  <LordAro> SimpleAI, maybe
14:13:06  <LordAro> but my knowledge of AIs is about 5 years out of date
14:13:25  <Artea> AIAI
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14:13:36  <Artea> but crashes after 10 years or so
14:14:54  <LordAro> i wonder if in the event of a crash, the game should just restart the AI and pretend nothing happened
14:15:03  <LordAro> (with appropriate protections against repeated crashing)
14:17:19  <Artea> I wonder how you bot would handle towns with 50k+ population
14:17:56  <Artea> about that
14:18:01  <Artea> probably is a good feature
14:18:12  <Artea> but had to filter some crashes
14:18:20  <Artea> CPU excessed usage is one of them
14:18:30  <Artea> which is what crashes AIAI
14:19:03  <LordAro> mm
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14:23:00  <peter1138> Rip quality: 100.00%
14:23:18  <peter1138> 1) Needless precision 2) Buying CDs, LOL...
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14:30:43  <Artea> 93 years left
14:30:51  <Artea> to reach first goal :D
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14:43:25  <nielsm> hmm, ScriptGroup::GetProfitThisYear() seems to not handle sub-groups correctly
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14:46:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> so, who ordered this weather?
14:47:42  <Artea> me
14:47:50  <Artea> is from Portugal
14:48:02  <Artea> ;P
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14:48:55  <Eddi|zuHause> it's always portugal, with their azores
14:48:55  <nielsm> hm okay maybe it is fine after all
14:49:08  <Artea> looooooooooool
14:49:57  <Artea> I never went to Azores or Madeira
14:51:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i went to algarve once
14:51:15  <Eddi|zuHause> that was like 20 years ago
14:54:36  <Artea> I live in Algarve
14:54:39  <Artea> Lagos
14:55:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7546: Fix #6507: Don't try to load invalid depots from older savegames
14:55:19  <peter1138> I went to Algarve a few years ago.
14:55:27  <Artea> :D
14:55:48  <peter1138> Hired a car and drove to the top of Fóia, cos... why not?
14:56:00  <Artea> :P
14:56:03  <peter1138> It was closed.
14:56:45  <Artea> did u enjoy the beach ?
14:57:41  <peter1138> Yeah, but it was a bit early in the year so not hot all the time. Had a few days of sun and some of rain.
14:58:04  <Artea> is like now
14:58:07  <Artea> sunny
14:58:11  <Artea> but rain 2 days ago
14:58:19  <peter1138> Yeah, it was mid-May iirc.
14:59:18  <Artea> you should try September
14:59:23  <Artea> August is too crowd
14:59:35  <Eddi|zuHause> we went in like february and the locals thought we were crazy for going into the water :p
14:59:59  <Artea> yeah that is normal, Eddi
15:01:13  <Artea> humidity is the worse
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15:04:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
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15:35:55  <peter1138> Hmm, so, NewGRF debug window..
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15:38:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7104: Fix #5405: Aircraft could route to depots outside their range
15:40:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7328: Improve restart
15:41:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7328: Improve restart
15:42:32  <LordAro> anyone got any thoughts on #7340?
15:42:57  <LordAro> i'm increasingly of the opinion that the TGP values need changing generally, everything is far too flat
15:43:20  <peter1138> The whole thing needs redoing :p
15:44:28  <LordAro> well maybe that
15:44:49  <LordAro> i was under the impression that TGP was already a fairly general perlin noise generator though
15:45:41  <peter1138> Because it writes directly to the map array, it can't be used for nice extras, such as using a separate perlin map to select areas to be desert.
15:46:24  <LordAro> right
15:46:54  <Eddi|zuHause> ... or meandering rivers
15:48:46  <peter1138> No, git rebase, I don't want to pick ancient revisions that have svn revisions in 2000s range. Or any at all, tbh.
15:51:49  <LordAro> so we're in agreement on the TGP thing
15:51:54  <LordAro> but as an interim fix...
15:53:04  <peter1138> +typedef SmallVector<SignalReference, 4>     SignalDependencyList;
15:53:14  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe JGR hasn't updated for a while? Or left SmallVector in.
15:55:42  <peter1138> Or maybe he just doesn't work with these branches any more.
15:58:45  <Eddi|zuHause> <nielsm>   bad edit, I can't think of a good way to make the transition here <-- i fear to make that not-horrible we also need diagonal track pieces
15:58:45  <peter1138> Hmm.
16:01:11  <peter1138> Let's see what all the fuss is about with JGRPP anyway.
16:01:21  <peter1138> Oh. Doesn't compile.
16:01:55  <LordAro> lol
16:02:23  <peter1138> As it's the "de-facto standard" that's somewhat unexpected.
16:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean, a loud minority?
16:03:02  <peter1138> That one, yes.
16:03:30  <peter1138> So I was seriously going to look at programmable signals...
16:04:11  <peter1138> Maybe I'll try the progsig-rebase branch.
16:04:15  <peter1138> Oh, that doesn't compile either.
16:04:39  <peter1138> Nor progsig-sx. Hmm.
16:05:10  <peter1138> Anyway.
16:05:15  <peter1138> SIGTYPE_PBS
16:05:18  <peter1138> SIGTYPE_PBS_ONEWAY
16:05:21  <peter1138> SIGTYPE_PROG
16:05:25  <peter1138> That isn't promising.
16:05:53  <peter1138> If it only works as an old-style block signal, fuck that.
16:06:32  <peter1138> So routing restrictions... is sort of similar in idea, I think?
16:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> was that the one that works with waypoints?
16:18:27  <peter1138> I don't know. I was going to compile it to test but no luck compiling.
16:18:45  <Eddi|zuHause> considered that it might be just you? :p
16:19:34  <peter1138> error: 'UpdateWidgetSize' overrides a member function but is not marked 'override'
16:19:37  <peter1138> Probably not just me.
16:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a "it probably compiles with less strict settings"
16:21:15  <peter1138> You mean not everyone uses -Werror?
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16:23:00  <peter1138> Yeah, that was it. Shed loads of warnings.
16:23:29  <LordAro> i imagine the override will cause a load of them
16:30:45  <peter1138> "If entered signal of PBS block is at ..."
16:30:47  <peter1138> PBS block... lol
16:33:15  <peter1138> Yeah, so programmable signals don't with with path signals. Useless.
16:33:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i probably made that complaint like 5 years ago...
16:34:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i certainly said that about signals in tunnels
16:36:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7348: Fix: IniLoadFile::LoadFromDisk seems to expect filename, BaseMedia<Tbase_set>::AddFile provides fullpath
16:40:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7542: Fix #7255: Prevent crashlog corruption by only printing the 20 most recent news messages
16:41:28  <peter1138> path restrictions can be on any signal but... they're just a hint, I guess.
16:41:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7542: Fix #7255: Prevent crashlog corruption by only printing the 32 most recent news messages
16:43:50  <nielsm> thinking about PBS programmable signals, most basic just "valid path endpoints" which are tiles (which must either have a signal on them or be station platform at end of line)
16:44:26  <nielsm> and extensible with multiple groups of valid endpoints where each group has some condition on it about the train "class"
16:44:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
16:44:34  <nielsm> and a default group
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16:47:22  <LordAro> i'm tempted to close #7502
16:47:23  <nielsm> could maybe with a system like that allow pointing to path endpoints that are further down the line and that way reserve a path through multiple signals
16:48:41  <peter1138> LordAro, yes.
16:49:19  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: no objections
16:49:22  <LordAro> well
16:49:38  <peter1138> LordAro, is the STAT_CLASS_MAX = 256 -> 255 change no issue?
16:49:44  <LordAro> maybe it is a good idea, but without the extra setting?
16:49:48  <LordAro> peter1138: glx didn't think so
16:49:57  <LordAro> that's about all i can tell you :)
16:50:18  <peter1138> As far as I know, if it changes anything then you get 255 classes tops instead of 256t.
16:50:21  <peter1138> -t
16:50:31  <peter1138> And... who has that many station classes?
16:52:10  <LordAro> indeed
16:52:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7538: Remove TinyEnumT type
16:55:23  <peter1138> #7542, what's the fixed buffer size that's being reached?
16:57:10  <LordAro> char buffer[65536];
16:57:15  <LordAro> MakeCrashLog
16:57:31  <LordAro> but regardless, hundreds of news messages is a bit ugly
16:57:41  <LordAro> and unnecessary
17:00:39  <peter1138> Hmm, does the buffer overflow somewhere?
17:00:46  <nielsm> if there's hundreds of recent news messages that in itself might be a symptom :)
17:00:55  <nielsm> no it doesn't overflow
17:01:01  <nielsm> it just stops writing more to it
17:01:11  <nielsm> so the crashlog is truncated
17:01:53  <peter1138> Hmm, the PR says "corruption"
17:02:04  <LordAro> the issue said corruption :p
17:02:17  <LordAro> wait, no it didn't
17:02:42  <LordAro> peter1138: eh, squash it and reword the commit :p
17:03:19  <nielsm> "nice but not necessary": write a line about how many messages were not writen
17:03:39  <peter1138> I'm not too worried, just that if was actual corruption and buffer overflows, then the 32 limit felt a bit arbitrary.
17:03:40  <nielsm> "+ 234 more recent news"
17:04:06  <peter1138> But if it's just truncated rather than corrupted then sure.
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17:07:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7502: Feature: Allow or disallow large aeroplanes to land on airports with short runways
17:07:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #7502: Feature: Allow or disallow large aeroplanes to land on airports with short runways
17:09:56  <nielsm> "tell the player if the gun is pointed an unsafe way, but don't attempt to grasp at it if it looks like they're about to shoot themselved in the fooot"
17:10:09  <nielsm> so much typos
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17:20:57  <nielsm> is it perhaps something to codify at ?
17:21:09  <nielsm> how "player attempting to set up an unsafe situation" should be handled
17:21:22  <LordAro> not a bad idea
17:21:43  <nielsm> since the direction has so far always seemed to be don't disallow but, but do warn the player
17:33:04  <peter1138> Hmm, so our releases are running bad on OS X?
17:33:08  <peter1138> I guess not everyone sees that.
17:33:33  <LordAro> running bad?
17:33:43  <peter1138>
17:35:08  <LordAro> without someone who actually knows how to debug such things, it's really difficult to do anything about it
17:35:42  <LordAro> one person seems to think it's related to the road vehicle performance stuff
17:35:52  <LordAro> but he's not on OSX
17:36:36  <nielsm> how's this?
17:36:38  <nielsm> In general the game should allow anything that doesn't violate basic rules. Players should only be prevented from performing actions that are impossible, such as sending a bus to a truck stop, but always allow actions that merely are risky or "stupid", such as sending a bus to a bus stop that could never get passengers. Instead the game should try to warn players about potentially bad
17:36:38  <nielsm> situations, such as warning messages about unprofitable vehicles.
17:36:49  <_dp_> LordAro, it's related on linux but not on osx
17:38:19  <LordAro> nielsm: perhaps a different example? given afaik the game does not warn about sending buses to bus stops with no acceptance :)
17:40:59  <nielsm> no but it does warn you that the vehicle has made no profits
17:41:20  <LordAro> true
17:45:09  <nielsm> "For example players are not prevented from starting vehicles with no orders, but the game will send a warning about vehicles having too few orders. Because players are allowed to do so, some have made it a challenge to make working transport networks where vehicles have no orders."
17:46:23  <LordAro> :)
17:47:01  <SpComb> I remember trying to build a road network without any orders
17:47:29  <SpComb> for trains it's easy, particularly if you do point-to-point
17:48:11  <SpComb> but building a couple bus stops in some towns, linking them together with roads and then spamming a ton of busses without any orders has a certain appeal
17:48:31  <SpComb> because iirc it does kinda work
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17:49:54  <Samu> round 10 complete
17:50:38  <nielsm> did the wiki edit now
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17:52:04  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
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18:02:59  <_dp_> nielsm, nice but where was that logic when overbuilding one-way roads with stations was prohibited in 1.9?
18:03:30  <nielsm> I don't know, was it intentional?
18:03:46  <_dp_> nielsm, apparently yes
18:04:16  <_dp_> also, cough cough, overbuilding signals with rail would be nice ;)
18:04:35  <_dp_> risky and "stupid" but I like it :p
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18:07:15  <peter1138> IIRC it was possible to overbuild other company's one-way roads.
18:07:59  <_dp_> peter1138, dunno about other companies but now I can't overbuild my own :(
18:09:59  <peter1138> That's okay, just remove the one-way flags first.
18:10:22  <_dp_> peter1138, if I remove it gets crowded by vehicles
18:11:07  <peter1138> Are you now saying you have a use-case for overbuilding one-way roads, rather than just saying "you can't do it any more"
18:11:16  <_dp_> peter1138, so, basically instead of just building a station now I have to stop all vehicles around, remove one-way, build station, start vehicles again
18:11:24  <peter1138> Yes.
18:11:36  <peter1138> So *THAT* has never been mentioned before.
18:11:46  <peter1138> It's almost like we have to be psychic.
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18:13:41  <LordAro> peter1138: haven't you been issued with your crystal ball yet?
18:14:01  <_dp_> peter1138, what that? I explained it all here the moment I noticed I couldn't extend my station like before.
18:14:24  <peter1138> Here?
18:14:26  <_dp_> peter1138, didn't notice it when the code change was being made sadly :(
18:14:31  <LordAro> also our memories are not good
18:14:33  <peter1138> Where it gets lost are a few minutes.
18:15:15  <nielsm> the issue tracker exists to keep track of issues
18:17:07  <peter1138> Jun 6th 2018, I fixed it.
18:17:15  <peter1138> We were using git back then.
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18:20:32  <_dp_> well, when I first brought it up here I got the impressions it's pointless to open an issue
18:20:54  <_dp_> I guess it was just Eddi arguing so mb should've just ignored him :p
18:21:16  <peter1138> It's never pointless to open issues.
18:21:39  <_dp_> peter1138, say that to stalebot :p
18:21:47  <peter1138> That's not even my idea.
18:22:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure i like stalebot either
18:22:30  <LordAro> ^
18:22:32  <peter1138> It's definitely pointless to comment on here, without explaining your reasoning, and then of course it will be lost because time is fleeting.
18:22:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i do remember that discussion about roads
18:22:55  <dwfreed> I think your development cycle is too slow for stalebot
18:23:37  <Eddi|zuHause> stalebot is here to relief andy of the burden to tell people that their PR is bad
18:23:55  <dwfreed> honestly stalebot only makes sense in a few narrow cases
18:24:07  <peter1138> So anyway, Jun 6th is WAY before stalebot.
18:24:43  <nielsm> also stalebot ignores issues tagged "regression"
18:24:55  <nielsm> so if you have a genuine regression bug it won't get autoclosed
18:25:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but does that cover regressions of the kind "please reinstate spacebar overheating"?
18:29:50  <peter1138> Okay... so error message... should it be the "owned by ..." or the current "road is one way or blocked"
18:30:06  <nielsm> "owned by" imo
18:30:09  <peter1138> Yeah.
18:31:45  <Eddi|zuHause> [5. April 2019] [17:56:15 CEST] <_dp_> but whose bright idea was to forbid road stations on one-way road? :(
18:32:21  <peter1138> April!
18:32:29  <peter1138> So...
18:32:43  <Eddi|zuHause> that's 4 weeks ago
18:32:54  <peter1138> Somewhat later than the original commit.
18:33:13  <_dp_> peter1138, somewhat immediately after original release :p
18:34:08  <peter1138> So yeah, I see I was even there, but all I see a rant.
18:35:27  <peter1138> stalebot probably wouldn't've even closed it yet if you had made a proper report.
18:36:21  <_dp_> peter1138, ok, ok, I'll make a proper report
18:36:47  <peter1138> No point now.
18:37:23  <_dp_> peter1138, I was just kinda pissed that stuff got broken
18:37:30  <peter1138> It wasn't broken, it was fixed.
18:37:47  <peter1138> You could previously remove other company's one-way bits.
18:38:14  <_dp_> peter1138, also even if there is no point for one-way issue there still may be for cloning...
18:38:24  <_dp_> peter1138, that kinda got "fixed" as well
18:38:45  <peter1138> So what the fuck are you talking about now?
18:38:47  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i don't think it helps your cause by randomly merging and hopping topics like that
18:38:56  <peter1138> We still don't have crystal balls.
18:39:15  <_dp_> peter1138, I'll make a proper report when I got a clear opinion on that :p
18:40:39  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, ok, ok, nothing's broken ... for now :p
18:45:16  <_dp_> but basically, cloning vehicle doesn't open vehicle window anymore
18:45:29  <_dp_> which is nice sometimes but sometimes definitely not
18:45:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure that used to be a setting
18:45:34  <_dp_> so I'm still experimenting with it
18:46:49  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, no, don't think so
18:47:05  <_dp_> actually, it's ctrl-cloning, just cloning still opens it
18:48:03  <nielsm> hmm actually, ctrl-cloning should maybe open the depot window instead
18:48:19  <Eddi|zuHause>     (svn r24808) -Feature(ette) [FS#4458]: When share-cloning vehicles don't open the vehicle window of the new vehicle. The only reasonable thing to do with the new vehicle is to start it, which can also be done via the depot GUI.
18:48:20  <Eddi|zuHause>     Change: Clone tool in depot window now behaves like clone button in vehicle window. Keep the tool active when share-cloning. Open the vehicle GUI when copy-cloning. (#6754)
18:48:39  <nielsm> e.g. if you've opened an in-depot rv via the vehicles list and then ctrl-clone it, you would get the depot window opened to see the new vehicle there
18:49:47  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, I even commented on that issue but seeing it now I'm having some doubts
18:50:08  <_dp_> basically the idea was to make cloning from depot behave the same as cloning from vehicle
18:50:36  <_dp_> but now that I think of it they're quite different
18:50:57  <Eddi|zuHause> there's also this one:     (svn r24955) -Change (r24808) [FS#4458]: Revert to opening the vehicle GUI again when cloning vehicles using the clone-button from the depot GUI. This button cannot be used for sequential cloning, so the argument about opening many windows does not hold as it does for the clone button from the vehicle GUI.
18:51:07  <_dp_> as cloning from vehicle means it's in the same depot and yeah, opening that depot makes sense if it's not open for some reason
18:51:31  <_dp_> but cloning from depot may mean you're on entirely different side of track and you need to verify/skip orders
18:51:46  <Eddi|zuHause> opening the depot does sound sensible
18:57:51  <Artea> hmmmmmm
18:58:14  <Artea> we should be able to buy a company with no clients for 5 or 10 years
18:58:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Artea: change the autoclean mode so it treats it like bankrupcy?
18:59:33  <Artea> I didn't activated
18:59:49  <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably not an existing feature
18:59:50  <Artea> I don't know how it work ingame
19:00:26  <Artea> well, I don't think dp company will bankrupt that soon
19:00:58  <_dp_> Artea, lol how is it still alive?
19:01:11  <_dp_> just closes the damn thing! xD
19:01:16  <Artea> 500M profit I'm not mistaken
19:01:39  <Artea> 206M company value
19:03:13  <Artea> and sorry, 206B
19:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that should be G?
19:03:44  <Artea> euros
19:04:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the abbreviations are k,M,G,T,...
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19:05:13  <_dp_> I disabled autoclean on citymania recently as it crashed server
19:05:29  <_dp_> some players were quite surprised getting 1 bil goal in 48 hours xD
19:05:40  <Artea> M = Million | B = Billion
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19:07:04  <_dp_> as for cloning after a bit of thought I think I'd prefer to have "clone last" button in depot instead of clone button in vehicle
19:07:28  <_dp_> so just clone would always open vehicle window but clone last won't
19:07:28  <Eddi|zuHause> Artea: in my world, Billion is 10^12, not 10^9
19:08:19  <_dp_> that always got me confused about english
19:08:40  <_dp_> just how do I say 1000000000 in a way that people on both sides of globe understand?
19:08:59  <Artea> well
19:09:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i popose 1G
19:09:06  <Artea> I don't know
19:09:18  <Artea> we have a middle between Million and Billion
19:09:23  <peter1138> 1000 million ;)
19:09:49  <nielsm> million, milliard, billion, billiard, ...
19:09:55  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, imo it's like 10**9, only 1% will get it :p
19:09:56  <nielsm> yes "short" and "long" scales
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19:10:30  <LordAro> almost no one uses long scales anymore, i thought?
19:10:53  <_dp_> peter1138, oh, right, that's what I'm using now xD
19:11:13  <_dp_> still sounds weird imo
19:11:29  <LordAro> billion will be understood by the vast majority to be 10^9
19:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i'm going to propose that more people worldwide use long scale than short scale
19:11:58  <LordAro> *in english
19:12:36  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: that doesn't help anyone
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19:13:46  <LordAro> the only time i've ever known anyone use the long scale in English is to ask "is this in long or short scale?", usually just after they've read some fact site or some other silly website
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19:14:23  <LordAro> i understand that directly translating the words to other languages means the values don't necessarily line up
19:14:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i've been sprinkling long scale in occasionally
19:15:22  <glx> using power of 10 is easier ;)
19:17:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7547: Change: Allow building road stops over self-owned one-way/blocked road.
19:20:07  <_dp_> yaaay!
19:20:12  <_dp_> thanks, peter1138 xD
19:20:24  <nielsm> but that doesn't mean the stop will be one-way, right?
19:20:37  <_dp_> nielsm, hope not xD
19:20:43  <nielsm> in which case it needs to have one-way roads on one or both ends
19:21:05  <nielsm> to remain one-way
19:21:31  <peter1138> No, it gets removed.
19:21:36  <glx> pathfinder will probably take care of that
19:21:38  <nielsm> in which case it would not be a problem removing one-way-ness from the road pieces you intend to build over since the road pieces leading into them would already be one-way
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19:22:46  <peter1138> It was never really a problem to remove one-way-ness. The problem was the ability to remove another player's one-way-ness.
19:22:52  <nielsm> in other words, I don't see why this would become a problem: <_dp_> peter1138, so, basically instead of just building a station now I have to stop all vehicles around, remove one-way, build station, start vehicles again
19:23:25  <peter1138> You don't always have space.
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19:25:55  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: when _dp_ says "one way", he actually means "blocked both ways"
19:25:55  <peter1138> Hmm, I can't remember my ./configure parameters for ARM cross-compilation.
19:25:59  <peter1138> Wait, config.log will have it :p
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19:29:58  <peter1138> So my main issue is compiling with SDL.
19:32:09  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, that's half-truth
19:32:13  <nielsm>
19:32:23  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, I uses one-ways as a turnaround point for vehicles coming from that side
19:32:32  <nielsm> situation B would never be a problem
19:32:47  <nielsm> situation A would be same with or without change
19:32:55  <nielsm> situation C is it?
19:32:56  <peter1138> nielsm, I'm not sure what you are trying to analyze now.
19:33:08  <_dp_> ^
19:33:31  <glx> nielsm: not a problem, user should know what it's doing
19:33:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i go with my initial opinion, the station should remember the oneway-ness. but that might get complicated...
19:35:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7548: Fix #7165: Missed another Append() to push_back() replacement
19:35:22  <nielsm> actually I don't see how either of those situations have it matter whether you remove the one-way-ness first and then build the stop, or can build the stop directly on top
19:35:38  <peter1138> nielsm, nobody knows what you're analyzing or why!
19:35:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7548: Fix #7165: Missed another Append() to push_back() replacement
19:36:02  <peter1138> nielsm, the intial issue was that you could overbuild *somebody elses* oneway/blocked roads, and it would remove them.
19:36:18  <nielsm> peter1138: I'm trying to understand why it matters that you'd have to remove one-way-ness before building a station on top
19:36:23  <peter1138> nielsm, I fixed that but preventing overbuilding in all cases.
19:36:42  <peter1138> s/but/by/
19:36:44  <nielsm> I can't think of any scenario where removing it first would let vehicles move somewhere they wouldn't be able to anyway after building a stop
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19:37:59  <peter1138> nielsm, you can't build a road-stop if there are vehicles on a tile.
19:38:10  <peter1138> nielsm, if it's blocked, you there will be no vehicles on the tile.
19:38:13  <peter1138> -you
19:39:18  <peter1138> Hmm, I could do with an android emulator.
19:39:28  <peter1138> I don't think it'll work inside hyper-v though :/
19:39:50  <nielsm> so it's road-block used as owned land except the town can build houses out from it
19:40:02  <_dp_> nielsm, well, I was mostly talking about stuff like this:
19:40:13  <_dp_> nielsm, good luck extending that in 1.9
19:41:53  <nielsm> right
19:41:57  <glx> build on pause ;)
19:42:11  <_dp_> glx, pause? what's that? :p
19:42:13  <peter1138> Then they're just be paused on the tiles you want to build on :p
19:42:14  * _dp_ plays mp only
19:42:53  <nielsm> (in my world that kind of setup should not count towards city growth)
19:42:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still thinking ctrl+click to stop the vehicle would properly handle your use case...
19:43:08  <glx> you only need to stop one vehicle I think
19:43:36  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, stop 1 vehicle, and be done with the upgrade before the quantum tunneling triggers
19:46:46  <V453000> yay haven't seen this one in a while Unable to allocate ID for [random]switch, sprite set/layout/group or produce-block. Try reducing the number of such blocks.
19:47:30  <peter1138> Oh nice, github now lets me choose which identity to use.
19:47:31  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you have too many switches alive at the same time, try reordering things?
19:47:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7548: Fix #7165: Missed another Append() to push_back() replacement
19:47:59  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: a switch is "alive" between its definition, and the last use
19:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: only 256 switches may be "alive" at the same time
19:48:23  <V453000> I know Eddi, I didn't add, just re-ordered :) moving big parts of code around
19:48:25  <V453000> I was afraid of this
19:48:34  <V453000> ah, good to know the number at least :)
19:49:58  <V453000> I've got a convoluted system where a train can look like a wagon but a wagon can look like a train :)
19:50:19  <V453000> so of course you need all of them at the same time :D but I can split some, should work
19:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause> you might need to duplicate a few things
19:50:49  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, easier said than done: they're constantly moving and clipping all over each other
19:51:23  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i don't see the problem, you still only need to stop one
19:51:27  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, and it's already dangerous enougt, one wrong move and you got a horde of trucks running amok in your town xD
19:51:32  <V453000> not sure actually, will be a mess either way
19:52:30  <V453000> actually now I read the line where the switch fails to be created, it's probably not such a nightmare
19:52:41  <peter1138> warning: comparison of integers of different signs: 'unsigned int' and 'socklen_t' (aka 'int')
19:52:44  <peter1138> Hmm....
19:53:09  <peter1138> Oh, we typedef int socklen_t
19:55:27  <V453000> also, last time I arrived to this problem of running out of IDs, I had extremely random code. Now I even started using includes in my code :D custom ones from python, but still :) easy to move large chunks of code around
19:55:32  <peter1138> Hm.
19:56:03  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: we'll get you to higher level metaprogramming at some point :p
19:56:33  <V453000> yeah
19:56:36  <V453000> in 62 years
19:56:59  <peter1138> Oh, we don't. Hmm.
19:57:43  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i would expect such a type to be defined in some system library
20:00:00  <peter1138> We define it in some cases, but not in this case.
20:00:45  <Wolf01> Oh nice, they added the fields to Mashinky
20:00:49  <peter1138> ./sysroot/usr/include/sys/socket.h:typedef int socklen_t;
20:01:05  <peter1138> So we compare a size_t with socklen_t.
20:02:03  <peter1138> But not in a normal build.
20:03:21  <LordAro> doesn't really seem like it should be an int
20:03:29  <LordAro> but standard library kinda wins there
20:04:14  <peter1138> On my system headers it's typedef __socklen_t socklen_t;
20:04:32  <peter1138> (And no other reference to __socklen_t)
20:04:54  <peter1138>
20:06:44  <glx> it's defined to int for windows and os2 in os_abstraction.h
20:06:49  <peter1138> Yes, as it should be.
20:07:11  <glx> but only for MSVC
20:10:18  <peter1138> Hmm, does that assert warn on any build?
20:10:48  <peter1138> _dp_, well, I did my bit :p
20:12:26  <_dp_> peter1138, huh?
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20:15:12  <Samu> lala
20:15:24  * peter1138 attempts to play Brutal Doom
20:15:33  <Artea> HA
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20:21:58  <peter1138> So...
20:22:11  <peter1138> Playing it on hard realism mode, heh.
20:22:47  <peter1138> Why does this assert not need a cast with my system headers?
20:24:09  <peter1138> Must be some magic, it warns if I cast it to int, as it is meant to be.
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20:28:10  <dwfreed> peter1138: what's the line? and what's the types?
20:28:23  <peter1138> src/network/core/address.cpp:271
20:28:31  <peter1138> size_t vs socklen_t
20:29:54  <peter1138> aka size_t vs int
20:31:12  <glx> I have unsigne long long vs size_t here
20:32:49  <nielsm>
20:32:51  <nielsm> interesting
20:33:12  <nielsm> the macos slowness has the same symptoms as what I was seeing on the dos build
20:33:21  <nielsm> i.e. no single component measures slow
20:33:47  <dwfreed> socklen_t is uint32_t equiv
20:33:58  <andythenorth> yo
20:34:09  <peter1138> dwfreed, no, it's not unsigned.
20:34:21  <dwfreed> according to my headers it is
20:34:25  <peter1138> That's... wrong.
20:34:36  <dwfreed> ./types.h:__STD_TYPE __U32_TYPE __socklen_t;
20:34:43  <dwfreed> ./socket.h:typedef __socklen_t socklen_t;
20:35:06  <_dp_> nielsm, that's probably citymania client screenshot as there are no vehicles
20:35:11  <_dp_> nielsm, they still can be slow
20:35:33  <_dp_> nielsm, though they should be part of gameloop iirc
20:35:42  <nielsm> yes and this is a blank game as he's writing
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20:35:50  <nielsm> there is nothing there to make it slow
20:35:56  <nielsm> it's not simulation related
20:36:09  <nielsm> it seems like it's something with the timing of the main loop
20:36:29  <nielsm> like the timer used is wrong
20:36:44  <andythenorth> so RV overtaking is solved, in the de-facto replacement for OpenTTD?
20:36:50  <nielsm> since it's not slow simulation, it's not slow rendering, it's not slow output
20:37:04  <glx> graphics rendering is low but doesn't seem fast in average
20:37:31  <nielsm> glx: it's not 120 ms slow
20:37:58  <glx> but indeed it's fast enough for 33fps
20:38:01  <nielsm> it should be able to output 600-800 fps at that rate
20:38:51  <peter1138> I'd assume andythenorth would have reported such slowness if it was universal on OS X, though.
20:41:09  <andythenorth> eh what did I break now?
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20:41:16  <nielsm> maybe has to do with hardware configuration, which system timers are available or something like that
20:41:32  <nielsm> you never reported getting about 7 fps
20:42:36  <andythenorth> oic
20:42:38  <andythenorth> no
20:42:50  <andythenorth> ok so I have a busy test game open
20:43:02  <andythenorth> where FFWD performance is a dog (as a reference point)
20:43:32  <andythenorth> but I'm getting 60-70fps for both simulation and graphics
20:44:05  <andythenorth> (on ffwd)
20:45:34  <peter1138> andythenorth, in this "bug" it's apparently really slow with an empty game.
20:45:42  <andythenorth> ok I try
20:46:23  <andythenorth> ok on a clean map, no vehicles, no AI
20:46:40  <andythenorth> simulation rate is regularly passing 2k fps
20:46:49  <nielsm> are you running fullscreen or windowed mode?
20:47:23  <andythenorth> windowed
20:47:24  <glx> on the thread it says it's better with smaller window
20:47:59  <LordAro> could it be some horrifically underpowered macbook air or something?
20:48:13  <LordAro> i don't think there were any actual hardware specs in that thread
20:48:22  <peter1138> It's said that previous versions worked fine.
20:48:23  <LordAro> andythenorth: OS version?
20:48:30  <peter1138> And it'd have to be VERY unpowered to be that slow.
20:48:34  <andythenorth> 10.13.6
20:48:36  <LordAro> true
20:48:49  <nielsm> if it was just underpowered hardware then the slowness would probably measure to one or more of the framerate figures
20:48:50  <andythenorth> full disclosure, this is a self-compiled version of the NRT PR
20:48:57  <glx> iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2017) 3,8 GHz Intel Core i5, 24 Gb 2400 MHz DDR4, Radeon Pro 580 8 Gb Mohave 10.14.4
20:49:06  <andythenorth> also I've been running OpenTTD on macs for 12 years
20:49:06  <glx> doesn't seem underpowered to me
20:49:15  <LordAro> mm, both posts in there mention 10.14
20:49:17  <andythenorth> they used to be more underpowered than now :P
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20:49:34  <andythenorth> 10.14 might have changed the graphics API to default to Metal
20:49:38  <andythenorth> among other changes
20:49:46  <andythenorth> I can't upgrade, not supported at work
20:49:55  <LordAro> when were you plan- aw
20:50:08  <glx> oh so all the deprecated stuff is now slow ?
20:50:54  <LordAro> still doesn't explain why 1.8 was fine?
20:51:03  <LordAro> unless they upgraded at the same time and didn't test both
20:51:46  <glx> or it's the way I built the previous versions
20:51:52  <glx> *we
20:52:12  <LordAro> mm
20:52:22  <glx> 1.8 used the old compile farm
20:52:28  <LordAro> we need someone with 10.14 able to test such things :)
20:52:46  <andythenorth> I believe we have one in the forums? o_O
20:53:08  <glx> yeah probably need him to build 1.8.0 to compare
20:53:25  <nielsm> can we somehow get 1.8.0 built on the new compile farm?
20:53:32  <LordAro> come up with a list of things for them to try
20:53:33  <nielsm> for comparison
20:53:43  <LordAro> nielsm: with difficulty, i fear
20:54:46  <nielsm>
20:55:01  <nielsm> one guess at a possible reason
20:55:21  <nielsm> though it should not give up a time slice for so long
20:55:26  <nielsm> and should not busy-wait
20:55:46  <peter1138> Is that new?
20:55:47  <nielsm> no
20:55:48  <LordAro> can we just use <chrono> stuff everywhere?
20:55:55  <peter1138> LordAro, we do now.
20:56:09  <nielsm> peter1138 no not here
20:56:13  <nielsm> it uses gettimeofday
20:56:30  <nielsm> line 90
20:56:31  <LordAro> the video drivers aren't using it to control their loop times, is it?
20:56:38  <peter1138> Oh, I was thinking of the CSleep() stuff. Oops.
20:56:55  <peter1138> I have a patch for that, though... (lol)
20:57:33  <peter1138> Oh, didn't touch OS X though.
20:57:53  <glx> I think it should be possible to do 1.8.0 build like it's done for PRs
20:58:15  <LordAro> all the version stuff would be broken, i imagine
20:58:29  <LordAro> but it would probably serve its purpose
20:58:30  <peter1138> Yeah, it's missing the pipelines stuff.
20:58:57  <peter1138> azure-pipelines
20:58:59  <glx> using the nightly pipeline
20:59:28  <LordAro> so releases/1.8 + azure-pipelines stuff? could work
20:59:29  <nielsm> where the heck is CSleep defined in 1.9 branch?`
21:00:18  <glx> I can try to queue it
21:01:41  <nielsm> okay os/unix/unix.cpp it seems
21:01:46  <nielsm> and it does usleep(ms*1000)
21:03:13  <andythenorth>
21:07:59  <glx> ok I don't see how to queue it
21:11:47  <nielsm>
21:11:50  <nielsm>
21:11:56  <nielsm>
21:12:04  <nielsm> it has to be possible to unify this somehow?
21:12:09  <glx> ok it's not possible because "An error occurred while loading the YAML build pipeline. Could not find /azure-pipelines-release.yml in repository self hosted on using commit ebbbf0bdfb4abd849bb1f91254b60687a9660bfc. GitHub reported the error, "Not Found""
21:12:20  <nielsm> nm that that's from 1.9 branch it's basically unchanged in master
21:13:35  <nielsm> could we somehow make a SDL build for macos? or an allegro build?
21:14:07  <LordAro> nielsm: i'd like to see them merged, for sure
21:15:32  <glx> not easy LordAro, each driver use a different way to get system events
21:16:25  <nielsm> well some kind of templated stuff or whatever
21:16:30  <LordAro> sure, each driver would need a HandleEvent() function or whatever, but the loop itself and fair bit of the before, after, and contents could do it
21:16:49  <nielsm> that weird pattern where a superclass takes its subclass as a template parameter to get static polymorphism
21:17:02  <LordAro> mm, pools.
21:17:05  <glx> yes before and after for(;;) can probably be factorised
21:17:21  <LordAro> nielsm: also pls avoid
21:17:21  <nielsm> the basic goal would be to keep the timing logic the same for all platforms
21:19:02  <glx> hmm or not, because all inter thread communication on windows uses windows specific stuff
21:19:40  <nielsm> the windows driver has received lots of tender loving care over the years
21:19:44  <nielsm> and is very unique
21:20:03  <glx> osx driver on the other hand ;)
21:20:41  <glx> when converting QSortT() I had to keep OSX different
21:21:19  <glx> it's still limited to 32 resolutions while all other drivers have "infinite"
21:23:16  <nielsm> I have a (by now ancient) macbook pro around but its disk died so I'd have to get a new SSD for it and somehow install OS
21:23:25  <nielsm> and don't know if it actually works anyway
21:24:02  <nielsm> or could do the hackintosh -.-
21:24:14  <nielsm> (but no guarantee it'd exhibit the bug)
21:25:12  <milek7> funny comment on emscripten build: "I am thoroughly impressed at how smooth this is running on MacOS! It seems way more smooth than the native build for some reason."
21:25:23  <nielsm> :(
21:26:35  <glx> hmm maybe split mainloop in preloop where we may start thread, mainloop, and postloop with thread cleanup if needed
21:28:07  <glx> but won't change much as the loop itself is full of driver specific code
21:28:22  <glx> for event polling and key reading
21:29:13  <nielsm> can we make some template function that takes a bunch of function parameters and does the timing magic and calling of the game mainloop, but lets the driver fill in the other specifics?
21:31:53  <glx> oh and of course drawing on osx is not threaded
21:33:25  <glx> and I guess it was the same for dos
21:33:46  <glx> that may be the common point
21:34:14  <nielsm> yeah the allegro and macos mainloops are very similar
21:34:41  <glx> all painting is done outside main thread for sdl and windows
21:34:56  <milek7> --without-threads works fine for sdl
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22:10:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN requested changes for pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
22:10:50  <pnda> peter1138 what changes have occured in the current master to DropDownList?
22:13:27  <peter1138> See PopupMainToolbMenu() in src/toolbar_gui.cpp
22:14:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
22:14:22  <peter1138> ^^
22:14:37  <peter1138> (And yea, ditch those blank newlines)
22:15:02  <pnda> So just ->push_back was replaced with .emplace_back?
22:15:29  <peter1138> No.
22:15:46  <pnda> oh yeah I see it.
22:15:55  <pnda> Well thanks, I'll update that
22:24:08  <pnda> So I've changed the stuff and built the project. But I am still 38 commits behind master. Does that matter?
22:24:26  <peter1138> Just rebase it?
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22:31:32  <pnda> So like what is this, a Fix, Add, Change, Update?
22:33:15  <peter1138> Does not need to change?
22:39:16  <pnda> So I just amended my latest commit "Codechange: Set default values to 0 for air and water". Is that ok?
22:39:31  <peter1138> Squash it all together?
22:39:37  <peter1138> (fixup in rebase
22:39:38  <peter1138> )
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22:43:37  <Elon_Satoshi> Hi!
22:47:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda dismissed a review for pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
22:47:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda updated pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
22:47:25  <pnda> Should be updated now
22:47:31  <peter1138> Heh, you didn't ditch the blank lines
22:47:50  <pnda> Ohhh I forgot to do that
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22:48:13  <pnda> I did that before rebasing and changes went away... I'll redo this now
22:48:24  <peter1138> "changes went away" ... um..
22:48:39  <pnda> Yeah like I had to stash them
22:48:53  <peter1138> The great thing about git is commits are easy ;)
22:49:22  <peter1138> (Not like svn, where it goes off to the server and they're rather final...)
22:49:27  <pnda> I just did git commit --amend is that enough for git to pick up the changes?
22:51:30  <peter1138> You still need to pick the files you want to add.
22:51:40  <peter1138> Or use -a
22:52:27  <pnda> So git commit --amend -a will do the job right
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22:54:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda updated pull request #7485: Add: Dropdown build menus from toolbar have icons
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23:44:31  <Samu> round 11 begins

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