Log for #openttd on 12th June 2019:
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01:24:34  <SimYouLater> Hey. Is anyone here that can help me out with NML coding?
01:28:31  <SimYouLater> No?
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03:08:57  <Eddi|zuHause> ... will he some day learn that people are probably not here at 3AM=
03:08:59  <Eddi|zuHause> ?
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05:27:29  <nakki> heh
05:27:42  <nakki> yeah, people who just pop in for a question at 3am and leave after a couple minutes are amusing
05:28:09  <nakki> and what sort of a schmuck doesn't have his irc client running inside tmux on a server anyways
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07:11:30  <Eddi|zuHause> nakki: it would be less concerning if he didn't repeat that every other night
07:11:53  <nakki> lol
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07:16:35  <Samu> hi
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08:06:56  <Corns[m]> progress on my patch:
08:09:15  * andythenorth teddy-bear newgrf dev
08:09:34  <andythenorth> steam/diesel feldbahn is 16/8 (1 tile)
08:09:52  <andythenorth> should electric feldbahn be longer to reflect higher power?
08:10:02  <andythenorth> or is electric vs. steam/diesel just visual?
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08:36:35  <FLHerne> I don't think I'd care, tbh
08:37:01  <FLHerne> So, yes, visuals >> anything else
08:37:48  <FLHerne> Realistically, an "efficient" feldbahn is going to be one that doesn't exist because there's a huge ro-ro rail station next to every industry
08:45:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: gameplay-wise, 1 tile is probably the optimum, longer gets you in trouble with stations.
08:46:50  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could offer also a 2-tile version, and merge them with this thing that nobody will ever implement...
09:42:22  <andythenorth> there is that yes
09:46:10  <Corns[m]> Q to devs before i go further with my patch: whats the consensus on pathfinding building tools?
09:46:11  <Corns[m]>
09:46:49  <Corns[m]> I'm wondering if its too much of a gameplay change/ too "powerful"
09:47:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think there's a consensus
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10:36:28  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I could do 1-tile electric, but increase capacity per tile?
10:36:46  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't make a lot of sense...
10:36:47  <andythenorth> that keeps the vehicle flow the same (station length), but offers more capacity / time
10:37:27  <Eddi|zuHause> just increasing power/speed not enough?
10:37:29  <andythenorth> or I could keep 1-tile and just allow the higher HP to translate into more capacity / time
10:37:39  <andythenorth> electric should have some bonus, but not excessive
10:38:02  * andythenorth wonders whether to adopt the variable length trams from HEQS
10:38:09  <andythenorth> it's quite neat, it just fails with autoreplace
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10:51:18  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Don't, please
10:51:40  <FLHerne> The larger problem with that is station-refit
10:51:56  <FLHerne> (unless someone solved that and I didn't notice?)
10:52:15  <LordAro> Corns[m]: i'm personally tempted to say that it's too powerful
10:52:23  <LordAro> but as Eddi says, there's no consensus
10:52:34  <LordAro> i'd post about it on the forums and see what the feedback says
10:52:39  <FLHerne> The main use-case for trams is as feeder shuttles, and that's just where refit-to-available is really valuable
10:53:18  <FLHerne> LordAro: I don't think that's a valid argument, tbh
10:53:31  <LordAro> like i said, no consensus :p
10:53:50  <FLHerne> The 'make all the money' approach is to drag-and-drop perfectly straight railway lines across the map
10:54:09  <FLHerne> Ignoring hills and anything else that's in the way
10:54:35  <FLHerne> (because the cost of extra locomotives is trivial compared to the time cost of building decent infrastructure)
10:54:38  <LordAro> the 'make all the money' approach is to put 2 airports down at opposite ends of the map
10:54:55  <FLHerne> Some servers do ban aircraft
10:55:02  <FLHerne> Or have a very low limit
10:55:26  <FLHerne> Canals are slow, expensive and don't naturally go up hills
10:55:28  <LordAro> those servers would probably "ban" such straight railway lines as well
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10:56:05  <FLHerne> No-one is going to be exploiting the autorouter to build giant canals, and even if they do it'll look less stupid than those straight railways
10:56:28  <LordAro> for me, building the routes is a significant part of the game
10:56:35  <FLHerne> LordAro: I mean, you can ban aircraft by setting the limit to 0, in an otherwise-hands-off server
10:56:45  <LordAro> i wouldn't necessarily want to add a "do it for me button"
10:56:49  <FLHerne> And some of the competitive ones do that
10:57:02  <FLHerne> Because they're so blatantly game-breaking
10:57:29  <LordAro> regardless
10:57:53  <LordAro> there is no consensus, and i'm not going to complain if someone else decides it is desirable
10:59:20  <FLHerne> Yeah
10:59:40  <FLHerne> I don't think I'd /use/ it, but I have no objection to it existing
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11:14:07  <Corns[m]> LordAro: i guess its of a similar magnitude to copy-paste patch?
11:14:26  <LordAro> Corns[m]: that's my feeling on it, anyway
11:15:19  <Corns[m]> I'm curious tho - what would stop a third party client from implementing this and chaining DoCommandP?
11:19:00  <LordAro> nothing really
11:19:10  <Corns[m]> Oops sorry the messages inbetween didnt load
11:20:14  <Corns[m]> Aight
11:20:55  <Corns[m]> Thank you for your input :) Yeah i guess I'll ask on the forums
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11:33:59  <peter1138> Hmm, is it lunch time...
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11:34:14  <peter1138> As if by magic.
11:34:28  <andythenorth> was it?
11:35:33  <andythenorth> I had soup
11:35:34  <andythenorth> and bread
11:38:41  <andythenorth> so 1-tile feldbahn is more effective for gameplay
11:39:11  <andythenorth> but the motivation here is that long trains of tiny industrial wagons just looks neat
11:40:02  <andythenorth> HEQS longest industrial tram is 5 tiles :P
11:40:05  <andythenorth> might be overkill
11:41:06  <andythenorth> 4 tiles is good
11:49:50  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not, but i don't know how big that one actually is
11:49:57  <Eddi|zuHause> grr... was in buffer
11:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause>  <Corns[m]> LordAro: i guess its of a similar magnitude to copy-paste patch?
11:51:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess it depends on how well you can bend the existing pathfinder into shape
11:53:45  <Eddi|zuHause> <Corns[m]> I'm curious tho - what would stop a third party client from implementing this and chaining DoCommandP? <-- we have some burst limits for things like terraforming, if needed that can be extended
11:55:41  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, simple drag&drop placement will probably suffice for canals, but for rails you'd probably want settings for curve radius and slope distance
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12:06:10  <Corns[m]> Yeah I was thinking implementing an extra window so that the user can adjust settings, such as whether to build canals on river and ocean tiles, or whether to treat farmland tiles with an increased weight comma or whether to enable / disable Aqua ducks
12:06:27  <Corns[m]> Speech-to-text tried it's best
12:07:07  <nakki> lol
12:09:05  <Corns[m]> I know that the optimal distance for the hovercrafts ships with passenger service is 600 tiles, so I reckon that's a motivator for needing a Pathfinder tool for canals
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13:00:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what aqua ducks are, but i think we need them :p
13:02:06  <nakki> recommended listening: Jethro Tull - Aqualung
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13:08:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure i heard that before, but no clue how that sounds
13:10:55  <Samu> round 35 nearly over, 2 matches still running
13:34:17  <andythenorth> and yes also this
13:34:21  <andythenorth> peter1138 probably ^
13:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i need a manual for that
13:49:42  <andythenorth> I srtruggled
13:49:57  <andythenorth> but I am also not musical :|
14:01:30  <Eddi|zuHause> these slider thingies are certainly annoying to use. you want to turn them, but it only registers up/down movement
14:03:32  <Eddi|zuHause> still haven't found out how to actually make a sound
14:03:39  <Eddi|zuHause> is this thing even on?
14:08:28  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- there should probably be a link?
14:10:38  <andythenorth> start / stop
14:11:33  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, now, i got some sound :p
14:11:51  <andythenorth> quite addictive
14:20:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no, quite annoying
14:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i turned it off
14:23:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd rather use something designed with usability in mind, and not some pseudo-nostalgic technical limitations from 40 years ago
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15:33:27  <andythenorth> I've just never used a drum machine, so the novelty value is high
15:35:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't quite compare to using actual drums :p
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17:01:59  <andythenorth> supermop_work: yo
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17:52:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 opened pull request #7621: Feature: Town name filtering
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18:11:02  <supermop_work> hi andy
18:17:44  * andythenorth wondering 'why electric feldbahn?' 
18:17:53  <andythenorth> compared to steam/diesel feldbahn
18:18:06  <andythenorth> apart from realism
18:32:26  <andythenorth> 200 feldbahn vehicles seems overkill
18:32:46  <andythenorth> 13 wagon/cargo types, 2 power types, 2 lengths, 4 generations
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19:27:17  <V453000> oh wow what happened to the tt-forums style :D
19:30:38  <andythenorth> things
19:30:42  <andythenorth> I am not commenting
19:30:45  <andythenorth> maybe I get used to it
19:30:49  <andythenorth> change is good?
19:31:35  <V453000> idk, it's good enough for me to open it a few times per week :D
19:32:44  <frosch123> o*udge asked for someone to update the style for a new version, about a year ago
19:32:51  <frosch123> so, i guess, noone volunteered
19:33:20  <frosch123> ("a year" is a guess, may as well be "1/2 year")
19:33:27  <V453000> ;)
19:33:56  <frosch123> but it proabably also means that noone will complain during december
19:35:08  <andythenorth> I use silver fountains anyway
19:35:30  <orudge> frosch123: no, there was some help, but a bit more work was needed - I got some more work done, but need to do a bit more still
19:35:55  <orudge> Christmas theme hasn't been updated yet, too - if you're (un)lucky I'll get it done in time ;)
19:36:18  <frosch123> :p
19:36:28  <frosch123> andythenorth: i never log in, so i always get the default theme
19:39:12  <V453000> frosch123: silver is the same cancer that kovarex will use until his death :D
19:39:41  <V453000> I wonder what happens when we do a visual overhaul of our forums
19:40:00  <frosch123> f is mostly black, like the ingame gui
19:40:19  <frosch123> what is silver about that?
19:41:18  <V453000> well our forums also have a silver non-default theme
19:42:04  <frosch123> i think i only logged in once, and then found that someone else had already posted what i wanted to post
19:42:14  <V453000> :D
19:42:25  <V453000> honestly I only use our forums in bare minimum
19:42:47  <V453000> I prefer reddit where a discussion is a tree and people replying to a thing with any relevancy are under the tree
19:43:14  <V453000> where in a forum it's a topic over another topic, so if you have a FFF about 4 things, there's 10 pages of mixed 4 + number of topics people invented from reading the FFF over those pages
19:50:21  <andythenorth> forums are dead?
19:51:17  <LordAro> forms lack vision
19:51:20  <LordAro> forums*
19:51:40  <frosch123> internet is dead
19:51:58  <LordAro> computers are broken
19:52:08  <frosch123> that's by design
19:52:17  <LordAro> this was todays
19:56:22  <andythenorth> yes
19:57:34  <frosch123> can i deny downloading copyrighted stuff, by declaring that the content appeared on its own due to random bit flips?
19:58:11  <LordAro> i doubt it, somehow
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20:10:46  <andythenorth> so wagons for RVs? o_O
20:11:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7621: Feature: Town name filtering
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21:37:44  <orudge> The forums should be a little less horrible to look at
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21:53:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, the blue is gone, but the lines and icons are still too bright
21:54:46  <Eddi|zuHause> plus a dozen smaller issues...
21:55:02  <orudge> Yep
21:55:05  <orudge> It's not finished
21:55:19  <orudge> Icons etc need to be addressed
21:55:21  <orudge> and no doubt other tweaks
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23:57:20  <Samu_> round 35 finished
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