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00:53:18 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 01:03:14 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 02:07:53 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 02:23:05 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:26:28 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:27:54 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:12:06 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:42:20 *** reldred has joined #openttd 03:42:27 <reldred> weeeeeoooo 03:42:44 <reldred> I really should fix my irssi configuration 03:43:02 <reldred> also belated Congratulations on getting NRT into master folks :) 03:45:29 *** glx has quit IRC 04:08:26 <reldred> and oh look at that, I can still compile my old last version of the north american building set >:D 05:13:01 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:32:43 <nakki> midsummer is over 05:32:54 <nakki> it's back to boring, grey work routine 06:01:06 *** Mahjong2 has quit IRC 06:01:28 *** Mahjong2 has joined #openttd 06:06:32 *** k-man has quit IRC 06:06:49 *** k-man has joined #openttd 06:06:57 <reldred> oh yay, my last build of the north american building set did support variable snowline 06:07:01 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 06:07:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 06:07:37 *** colde_ has joined #openttd 06:08:26 *** ToBeFree_ has joined #openttd 06:10:43 *** heffer_ has joined #openttd 06:11:09 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 06:11:09 *** tokai has quit IRC 06:11:09 *** heffer has quit IRC 06:11:09 *** colde has quit IRC 06:11:09 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 06:11:15 *** colde_ is now known as colde 06:11:15 *** ToBeFree_ is now known as ToBeFree 06:13:05 <reldred> I need to work on the suburb distribution though 06:13:20 <reldred> I'm pleased it's not choking out other building sets but it needs more work 06:13:43 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 06:22:11 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 06:23:24 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:01:11 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 07:19:42 *** WWacko1976-work has joined #openttd 07:26:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:26:27 <andythenorth> 'Feldbahn' or 'Industrial Train' ? 07:26:46 <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=70241&start=160#p1222980 08:06:52 <reldred> well that was a fun half an hour trying to remember how to chain action2's together 08:07:03 <reldred> andythenorth: gimmenaobahn 08:07:11 <reldred> andythenorth: Feldbahn for a set name sounds nice thouygh 08:07:45 <reldred> oh, for actual vehicle names 08:08:00 <reldred> I think most english speaking people would expect 'industrial tram' 08:10:15 <peter1138> Yeah 08:10:53 <reldred> Hmmm. I am vexed. My generate only once per town was working and now I've broken it. 08:15:49 <reldred> ahh there we go, fixed 08:16:34 <reldred> now I wonder if I should go find Oz and Lifeblood and get their permission for the graphics and a re-release of NABS 08:16:51 <reldred> after that little debacle with oztransltd about ten years ago 08:23:03 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:29:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:32:43 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:43:02 <peter1138> Oz is back on the forums, posting screenshots. 08:46:01 <reldred> Oh neat 08:46:10 <reldred> I just dropped them all a PM 08:46:23 <reldred> and flicked an email to DanMacK 08:49:07 <reldred> oh hang on, that's OzTrans whos active on the forums again 08:51:52 <planetmaker> danmacK is usually quite ... how do you say? approachable about his graphics 08:51:58 <reldred> wow I thought I threw some tantrums back on tt-forums back in the day, I never called the ottd devs seasoned thugs 08:52:08 <reldred> planetmaker: yeah danmack and I go waaaay back 08:52:27 <reldred> I'm the artists formerly known as Aegir, for those unaware. 08:52:39 * reldred prepares for the channel ban 08:52:54 <planetmaker> there's people who know how to argue. And there's people who don't. That makes all the difference. 08:53:06 <planetmaker> Should your name ring any bad memories with me? (hint: it doesn't) 08:53:10 <reldred> eh, I was a child when I was active 08:53:20 <reldred> nah I was more active in the ttdpatch scene 08:53:40 <nakki> oh lord i'm glad i'm no longer active in the internet circles i frequented when i was a kid 08:53:46 <reldred> I threw my toys out of the pram a few times. 08:54:14 <reldred> mostly spat it at entitled users and busybody 'project managers' who liked to dictate to coders and artists what to do. 08:54:35 <peter1138> Yeah but that was basically the "right" side of the arguments ;) 08:55:02 <planetmaker> hehe 08:55:06 <reldred> like seriously, working in telecomms/networking and IT now and I'm sitting here wondering who goes HOME onto the INTERNET and decides they want to PM someone ELSES work for them? 08:55:19 <reldred> crap on a crutch 08:56:10 <nakki> hahah 08:56:21 <reldred> oh, probably the only 'infamous' thing I did was 'stolentrees' 08:57:07 <reldred> and my secret invite only openttd multiplayer server a bunch of artists/coders and I were on with our illicit blackmarket unreleased grf's. 08:58:03 <peter1138> :) 08:58:04 <reldred> but nah seriously, I wanted to complement you guys on the recent merge of NRT to master, I thought I'd never see the day but it sounds like there was some serious hustle recently to get it in. 08:59:53 <planetmaker> he... I just dug out an old e-mail / license which even confirms that you used this nick already 12 years ago :P 09:00:08 <planetmaker> when I asked you to be allowed to distribute your newgrfs in the coop grf pack :P 09:00:16 <reldred> hah 09:00:34 <reldred> yeah I always got crotchety about licensing 09:00:44 <planetmaker> http://www.openttdcoop.org/licenses/aegir.txt <-- ;) 09:00:50 <reldred> and I never did get around to getting orudge to change my forum handle 09:01:02 <reldred> tbh it puts some distance between forum me and real me 09:01:16 <reldred> and if I start releasing again I probably won't post on the forums 09:01:26 <reldred> I can't deal with that kind of attention anymore. 09:01:26 <planetmaker> why not? 09:01:42 <planetmaker> fair enough 09:02:03 <reldred> bad brain. brain is bad. Don't think I could deal with the stress or expectations anymore. 09:02:30 <planetmaker> the expectations, written and unwritten, that's the bad part of it really. IMHO 09:02:38 <reldred> Yup 09:02:45 <reldred> One of the things that drove me off way back when 09:03:17 <reldred> arguments over licensing, arguments over set management, arguments over everything. Everybody just wants wants wants wants. 09:06:16 <planetmaker> there's always more people who know how you should do something than there are people willing to actually do something at all 09:06:27 <reldred> Yeah pretty much 09:08:22 <reldred> Ahhhh I'm really pleased. I've got NABS playing nicely jp building set which creates some nice big 'cities' in the 1930's 09:08:37 <reldred> neither set crowds out the other 09:08:55 <reldred> might do a parameter flag to disable the suburban houses and just keep the big 'uns 09:09:48 <planetmaker> you totally should do that :P 09:09:52 * planetmaker hides 09:11:04 <reldred> well, that's what I've always liked in ottd, creating really weird alternate worlds, especialyl with your generic 2cc style sets and some of the stuff like roadhog, etc. 09:11:36 <reldred> let the world and the terrain tell a story 09:12:06 <reldred> and I guess this one atm is a cross between either america invading JP post WW2 or... the reverse. 09:17:39 <reldred> Well, I've got an grf dev environment partially working, I should work on getting ottd to compile now 09:17:43 <reldred> I have... ideas... 09:21:28 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:27:18 *** orudge has quit IRC 09:59:05 *** gelignite has quit IRC 10:11:08 *** nielsm has quit IRC 10:19:31 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:23:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:31:13 <reldred> Hmmm. Starting to really wish there was something like Docklands for railtypes. 10:37:40 *** dwfreed has quit IRC 10:37:42 *** dwfreed has joined #openttd 10:38:38 <planetmaker> what you mean with 'docklands'? 10:39:02 <planetmaker> oh. hm. :) 10:39:04 <planetmaker> nvm 10:39:06 <reldred> NRT set that has roads match station sets like ISR or chips 10:39:21 <reldred> I want matching choo choo train lines :) 10:40:52 <planetmaker> I wonder how hard that would be... 10:41:18 <planetmaker> given that you have access to rail graphics and the object graphics, it should be a more or less straight forward job. Yet tedious 10:41:19 <reldred> I don't suspect it would be very hard 10:41:52 <planetmaker> one could take supermop's code and make parameters for different railtypes 10:42:11 <reldred> Yeah, I've done worse. Before NRT back in TTDPatch days I was looking at making train track sprites that matched city streets, and then we did some code to configure the matrix that selected what trains were allowed on what tracks 10:42:15 <planetmaker> if you're daring, put more work in it and check adjacent tiles for real rail types :P 10:42:32 <planetmaker> luckily now rail and road live separately :) 10:42:44 <reldred> Nah I'd just implement it like the urban lines in jpset 10:42:54 <reldred> just a seperate tracktype with pretty graphics 10:43:00 <reldred> nothing fancy 10:43:07 <reldred> If I was going to do it, that is. 10:45:15 *** quiznilo has quit IRC 10:45:43 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/ButGroundTypes 10:45:53 <peter1138> Anyone started that yet? 10:46:58 <reldred> andythenorth: okay yeah that's pretty much what I was thinking 10:47:13 <reldred> That'd even answer some questions re: stations as well 10:47:27 <reldred> station sets refactored around that would save some sprites 10:48:05 *** orudge has joined #openttd 10:48:15 *** orudge has quit IRC 10:48:18 *** orudge has joined #openttd 10:50:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge 10:55:19 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 11:20:35 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 11:23:42 <andythenorth> peter1138: think we can safely assume 'no' 12:07:46 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:32:20 *** quiznilo has quit IRC 12:34:11 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 12:36:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:40:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:42:13 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 12:45:13 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:45:18 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 12:50:50 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 12:57:50 <peter1138> Is it lunch time? 12:58:25 <peter1138> "Just missed it" 12:58:26 <peter1138> I see. 12:58:34 <LordAro> sorry, try again tomorrow 12:58:55 *** tokai has joined #openttd 12:58:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 12:59:13 <peter1138> Well I already ate, fortunately. 13:03:20 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 13:04:39 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:06:06 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 13:14:16 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:20:46 <peter1138> Hmm, Strava says 520 kcal, Fitbit says 700 kcal... which do I "trust"? 13:33:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:54:13 *** Samu has joined #openttd 14:00:38 <planetmaker> burn it and use a calorimeter 14:00:45 <planetmaker> then you know what would have been true :P 14:03:29 <peter1138> That was exercise, not food. 14:28:58 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:29:59 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] wousser commented on issue #7247: With lots of vehicles, PerformanceAccumulator has a large performance impact itself https://git.io/fjrek 14:31:29 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:37:26 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:37:34 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 14:37:58 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 14:38:50 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7247: With lots of vehicles, PerformanceAccumulator has a large performance impact itself https://git.io/fjreB 14:51:08 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EgyLynx commented on issue #7626: Building drive through road stop on town-owned one-way road crashes game. https://git.io/fjreh 14:54:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EgyLynx commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing https://git.io/fjrvT 14:56:34 <LordAro> ...can anyone else work out what that means? 14:57:07 <nielsm> very difficult to decrypt 14:58:21 <LordAro> at the very least it seems the original issue(s) were misunderstood 14:58:26 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EgyLynx commented on issue #7580: Feature Request: When loading a saved game, the file picker should remember the last used directory https://git.io/fjrvm 14:59:16 <LordAro> interesting, wouldn't expect "wanna" from a non-native speaker... 14:59:50 <nielsm> maybe machine translation 15:00:11 <LordAro> certainly not from a machine 15:00:16 <LordAro> it's not a proper word :p 15:00:33 <nielsm> current deep learning stuff will probably pick that kind up 15:01:11 <nielsm> if it's also fed slang material for learning, which it probably needs too 15:01:17 *** Maverick has joined #openttd 15:01:57 *** Maverick has quit IRC 15:03:27 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EgyLynx commented on issue #7625: Road infrastructure counts are not updated properly, free money exploit with infrastructure maintenance https://git.io/fjrvR 15:04:51 <nielsm> yeah that's useless 15:06:39 <LordAro> i'm happy to delete all these comments, if you like 15:12:20 <nielsm> I don't really care 15:13:17 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:49:28 <Heiki> ah, the removal tool does not affect mosquitoes that have landed on the display to digest what they have sucked out of me 15:51:51 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:52:22 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 15:56:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> file a report? 16:09:03 *** Corns has joined #openttd 16:09:05 <Corns> hello 16:09:19 <Corns> what function can i use to check if a tile is occupied by a canal lock? 16:09:34 <Heiki> Eddi|zuHause: I’ll first have to investigate whether this affects flies and wasps as well 16:10:44 *** Corns has quit IRC 16:13:18 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 16:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> seems like you have some debugging to do 16:48:50 <FLHerne> Corns[m]: water_map.h has an `IsLock(TileIndex t)` 16:48:52 <FLHerne> So probably that 16:52:52 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 17:13:43 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 17:23:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:24:44 <andythenorth> boom boom 17:32:38 <frosch123> someone in your room? 17:33:55 <andythenorth> I continue this debugging adventure 17:35:20 <andythenorth> where did I get to? 17:35:30 <andythenorth> oh LordAro was on Windows and Eddi|zuHause had to go out 17:35:35 <andythenorth> so I went to bed :P 17:35:57 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7618#issuecomment-504782334 17:39:23 <LordAro> i think it's frosch123's turn :p 17:41:59 <frosch123> wasn't the conclusion already that some afterload dependency is probably wrong? 17:43:02 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:45:14 <LordAro> almost certainly, but the trick is working out *which* 17:49:34 <LordAro> and there's quite a few of them, according to #7602 17:54:29 <andythenorth> I could start changing random lines? o_O 18:37:12 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 18:39:55 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:54:38 *** Compu has joined #openttd 18:57:45 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd 19:05:49 *** glx has joined #openttd 19:05:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:29:35 <andythenorth> can I debug any more? 19:30:17 <LordAro> i don't think so 19:30:26 <LordAro> you could check a few other things if you like :p 19:30:31 <LordAro> other issues, i mean 19:43:16 <andythenorth> "close them all" :) 19:43:27 <andythenorth> this is all kinds of wrong, but it's nice that dev is a bit less intense 19:44:09 <andythenorth> lots of cool stuff got done earlier this year 19:44:13 <nielsm> well someone who can reproduce the macos insanely-slow-framerate issue and also knows how to operate a compiler and a debugger would be useful 19:44:20 <andythenorth> oh 19:44:21 <andythenorth> yes that 19:44:39 <andythenorth> ok so I upgraded to ?? 10.14.5 Mojave 19:44:45 <andythenorth> and now ffwd no longer ffwds 19:44:55 <andythenorth> previous OS, ffwd was bonkers fast 19:45:01 <andythenorth> I can't debug though 19:45:08 <nielsm> sounds like something about the video output is weird then 19:45:22 <glx> maybe the outdated api ? 19:46:25 <nielsm> right first check if it's using quartz or quickdraw 19:47:05 <nielsm> is it possible to make an sdl or allegro build for mac? 19:47:14 <nielsm> (for comparison) 19:47:30 <andythenorth> we don't rely on OpenGL do we? 19:47:35 <nielsm> no 19:48:03 <glx> pure OS API, like windows 19:49:17 <glx> I think you should be able to know what is used with some driver debug level 19:50:14 <LordAro> which MacOS do we build for? 19:52:54 <glx> target is 10.9 for compile farm if I understand the linking warnings 19:53:44 <LordAro> perhaps using 10.9 API on 10.14 is slowing it down? 19:53:53 <LordAro> or, no, as andythenorth has self-compiled, i presume? 19:54:14 <glx> and there are many 10.8 deprecated stuff still used 19:54:36 <andythenorth> I have self compiled 19:55:02 <andythenorth> apple deprecated OpenGL in 10.14, but dunno if that affects any other OS graphics layers 19:55:07 <LordAro> is performance roughly the same if you try the "official" 1.9.1? 19:55:41 <andythenorth> I'll find out shortly :) 19:56:30 <glx> if old api was using opengl internally maybe 19:58:54 <nielsm> looks like if built with _DEBUG defined and run with -ddriver=1 you get some timing info printed on exit 20:01:21 <nielsm> and then it'd be interesting if src/video/cocoa/event.mm's GetTick implementation has proper resolution or if it's being quantised 20:02:05 <glx> all objC++ source files may need some love I think 20:02:35 <LordAro> taking round the back and shot? 20:02:45 <LordAro> it's the kindest thing for them 20:03:02 <nielsm> the "interesting" thing is that the driver gameloop structure is identical to the allegro driver gameloop, which had similar behaviour on dos when we tested that a while ago 20:03:24 <nielsm> while the win32 and sdl drivers use rather different timing logic 20:03:48 <andythenorth> shall I rent us a mac by the hour? :P 20:04:01 <andythenorth> or you want me to be copy-paste mechanical turk? :) 20:04:43 <andythenorth> stuff https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/06/28/why-macos-mojave-requires-metal----and-deprecates-opengl 20:06:31 <nielsm> there are no references to opengl in this video driver code, it only creates 2D bitmap surfaces and renders those directly 20:07:01 <nielsm> the drawing itself also doesn't measure slowly 20:07:02 <rubenwardy> fuck apple 20:07:21 <nielsm> remember the old apple slogan? "think different" 20:07:24 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:08:01 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 20:12:13 <glx> the last screenshot in https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7247 (even unrelated to the issue) shows a very slow drawing time 20:12:38 <nielsm> slow but not 15 fps slow 20:13:26 <glx> yes there's something slowing down between drawing and display 20:13:26 <nielsm> and it's dominated by viewport drawing which is not bound by the OS code but the internal blitter 20:14:02 <glx> on the other hand video output rate is quite fast 20:14:12 <nielsm> yep 20:14:39 <nielsm> that's how often WindowQuartzSubdriver::Draw is called 20:15:54 <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/video/cocoa/event.mm#L709-L720 20:16:06 <nielsm> I think that branch happens too often 20:16:17 <nielsm> or the CSleep(1) call sleeps for too long 20:16:37 <nielsm> though if the CSleep(1) was too slow to return then the video output rate would also suffer 20:16:50 <nielsm> so it's most likely something relating to GetTick() being quantized 20:18:24 <nielsm> could augment it to write a csv file of detailed frame timings and then look at that... 20:18:45 <glx> we clearly need someone with apple hardware and knowledge :) 20:20:58 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:22:39 <glx> and GetTick() is using gettimeofday() 20:23:08 <glx> there may be a better choice in OSX API 20:25:28 <nielsm> could also try first making GetTick use std::chrono instead 20:26:53 <glx> manpage says "POSIX.1-2008 marks gettimeofday() as obsolete, recommending the use of clock_gettime(2) instead." 20:34:44 <nielsm> cool I did not know apple had their own calendar era too? https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corefoundation/1543542-cfabsolutetimegetcurrent 20:34:55 <nielsm> (think different) 20:35:18 <nielsm> (not useful) 20:38:14 <nielsm> could be useful: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coremedia/cmclock-u5q 20:42:57 <nielsm> https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/qa/qa1398/_index.html 20:46:33 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:23:52 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 21:23:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 21:31:15 *** tokai has quit IRC 21:32:19 * orudge has Apple hardware, but it's so ancient it can't run a version of Mac OS X supported by the OpenTTD build farm :( 21:32:30 <orudge> and with the price of Apple hardware these days, that's unlikely to change 21:34:52 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:00:53 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:17:43 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 22:36:10 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7626: Building drive through road stop on town-owned one-way road crashes game. https://git.io/fjrqF 23:07:23 *** tokai has joined #openttd 23:07:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 23:14:21 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 23:24:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:31:01 *** zuzak has quit IRC 23:31:05 *** zuzak has joined #openttd