Log for #openttd on 13th July 2019:
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01:26:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
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05:58:48  <andythenorth> moin
06:09:23  <peter1138> It is.
06:09:38  <peter1138> Hmm, should I go out on the early ride?
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06:18:38  <andythenorth> yes
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07:09:52  <andythenorth> mumble mumble progression
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07:37:44  <andythenorth> so it turns out that massive power increases per generation don't work
07:38:15  <andythenorth> because engine run costs increase, but train size doesn't, for an established network
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09:41:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7627: Fix #7626: Allow building of drive-through stops over one-way/blocked roads owned by towns (instead of crashing).
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11:37:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper opened pull request #7653: Build vehicle smart gui
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11:43:00  <LordAro> intriguing
11:50:58  <andythenorth> doesn't include 'optimum livery choice' :P
11:51:11  <andythenorth> how are we doing liveries now? :P
11:55:10  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7653: Build vehicle smart gui
11:58:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper updated pull request #7653: Build vehicle smart gui
12:00:52  <andythenorth> Horse 91% again :P
12:03:16  <andythenorth> somehow the idea for Horse has gone off the rails :)
12:03:22  <andythenorth> originally it was '10 engines'
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12:03:34  <andythenorth> now it is 75 engines
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12:05:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper commented on pull request #7653: Add BuildVehicleSmartGUI
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12:13:47  <reldred> andythenorth: I am okay with this
12:13:54  <reldred> please gib more
12:16:45  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "10 engines" was never a sustainable goal
12:16:50  <andythenorth> no
12:16:54  <andythenorth> I checked Dan's original plan
12:17:13  <andythenorth> it instantly evolved to 16
12:17:23  <andythenorth> 8 steam, 8 diesel / electric
12:17:54  <andythenorth> and then there was narrow gauge to add
12:18:00  <andythenorth> and TGV
12:18:08  <andythenorth> and then a 6th generation was needed for long games :P
12:18:24  <andythenorth> inflation :P
12:18:55  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we should throw CETS at the "smart" GUI, see what happens?
12:18:57  <reldred> Planning is essential but plans are useless?
12:19:36  <andythenorth> that
12:20:26  <Eddi|zuHause> there are people in this world for whom "plan" is a detailed step-by-step description that must not be deviated from at all costs
12:20:39  <reldred> and those people are weak and shall be purged
12:21:20  <Eddi|zuHause> for some strange reason those people have a tendency to remain in highranking positions
12:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and resist purging
12:21:52  <reldred> Don't they just
12:22:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i quit my last job partially because i was up against one such person
12:24:03  <andythenorth> my wife has a plan that I should be doing something else right now
12:24:04  <andythenorth> BBL
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12:24:24  <reldred> Shoulda planned ahead and not got a wife :P
12:24:54  <reldred> hahahahah I'm so lonely
12:32:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
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13:03:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
13:41:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
13:43:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
13:47:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
13:48:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
13:52:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
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14:42:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
14:43:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
14:49:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
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15:28:05  <Beerbelott> Hello. Does OpenTTD running as dedicated accept server commands through stdin?
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15:38:29  <nielsm> I think so yes
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15:59:45  <michi_cc> LordAro: Do you know how the website news posts are ordered? Is it by file name or something else (i.e. does the dev post have to be renamed to be first)?
16:02:04  <nielsm> probably descending order by filename
16:02:45  <nielsm> unless the templating engine does something smarter and first splits the date off then orders them within each day
16:27:47  <LordAro> michi_cc: filename is used to generste the oost date, afaik
16:28:02  <LordAro> other than that, i think it's just alphabetical
16:28:10  <LordAro> generate* post*
16:28:32  <LordAro> ah, nielsm got there first :)
16:30:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019
16:30:54  <michi_cc> So basically this commit ^^?
16:31:41  <milek7> i bought a new cpu
16:31:44  <milek7> 38s for openttd rebuild
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16:32:26  <nielsm> yeah that looks like it would put the post first :)
16:33:00  <michi_cc> So comments and edits today, and tomorrow somebody can hit approve.
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16:33:06  <nielsm> "Some polish." good thing it wasn't "Some Polish.", that would limit the audience somewhat
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17:12:09  <Beerbelott> nielsm: I'm not sure stdin serves as an interface for console commands
17:13:44  <Beerbelott> I started a dedicated process as frontend (-D). I can type commands in this interactive prompt (referenced later as the "terminal").
17:13:44  <Beerbelott> However, if I write to /proc/<PID>/fd/0, the content is duplicated on the terminal, but the corresponding action is not triggered
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17:44:29  <glx> stdin should work, autopilot used it
17:44:48  <glx> but it's easier to just use admin port
17:45:52  <glx> well autopilot was a wrapper around the interactive prompt
17:46:51  <Samu> scoring round 14, it was different than I expected
17:46:59  <Samu> many bankrupts
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17:57:37  * andythenorth backing up 1TB laptop to 500GB USB drive
17:57:45  <andythenorth> guess how well that's going? :P
18:00:28  <andythenorth> 500MB of OpenTTD content downloads :P
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18:01:23  <Eddi|zuHause> dd if=/dev/whatever | xz > file?
18:03:59  <andythenorth> something like that :P
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18:10:03  <andythenorth> trains
18:10:16  <andythenorth> turns out I can do silly livery styles, train 41
18:10:27  <andythenorth> like a vinyl wrap
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18:25:47  <Samu> Grinchios and Rythorn Airline AI, two AIs that were based on WrightAI, and yet they're still behind WrightAI in total score, after 15 rounds.
18:26:00  <Samu> disappointing
18:26:40  <Samu> i dunno if it's my testing methods
18:26:45  <Samu> my scoring
18:27:08  <Samu> but why would someone make an AI that is going to be worse than the original
18:27:59  <planetmaker> optimized for different settings.
18:32:23  <Samu> there are atm 20 AIs below WrightAI's score
18:32:35  <Samu> 20 out of 48
18:32:51  <Samu> 47 without counting WrightAI itself
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18:46:29  <_moep_> hey! how can I download the different grafics? I downloaded in openttd and enabled it, but it wasnt loaded
18:46:59  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to start a new game, won't be added to existing savegames
18:47:19  <_moep_> oh ok, good to know :D
18:48:10  <Samu> some of these times I logged were impressive, turns out most of them were times after a bankrupt
18:48:27  <Samu> it completely changes the scoring
18:48:39  <Samu> seems that I did the right approach with my scoring rules
18:49:16  <_moep_> lol
18:49:20  <Samu> bankrupted scores go below bankruptless scores
18:49:30  <Samu> no matter the time
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19:06:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
19:11:35  <Beerbelott> glx: I am trying to differentiate the interactive prompt from stdin
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19:12:08  <Beerbelott> The interactive prompt does work, while stdin seems to receive messages but does not "interpret" them, cf. details I provided sooner
19:12:11  <Beerbelott> Is this expected?
19:16:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: maybe the admin port is something for your purposes?
19:17:14  <Beerbelott> Yup, through RCON protocol
19:17:25  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody seriously used stdin for like 5 years now
19:17:38  <Eddi|zuHause> who knows what got broken there :p
19:17:43  <Beerbelott> I was expecting being able to find the same behaviour on stdin that existed on the interactive prompt. It seems it's not the case
19:17:50  <Beerbelott> Haha
19:18:18  <Beerbelott> Ah that means it might be a regression then, modulo confirmation it's a defect
19:18:22  <Beerbelott> Interesting
19:18:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it might be
19:18:43  <Beerbelott> I'd say I'd dig into that but I'll push one idea at a time...
19:19:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i fail to imagine how, but it still might be
19:20:32  <nielsm> dedicated_v.cpp doesn't do anything funny with stdin
19:20:50  <nielsm> it does select() on it to check if any input is waiting but that's it
19:20:50  <Eddi|zuHause> <- might be related
19:26:16  <glx> indeed seems unrelated to our code :)
19:38:18  <Beerbelott> Ah. Well.
19:38:52  <Beerbelott> I was a lil bit afraid of involving FIFO piping in there. It seems it might be the only way
19:38:55  * Beerbelott sighs
19:43:52  <Eddi|zuHause> well, again, the admin port is probably better suited :p
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19:48:52  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- i've got this SSD that refuses to be recognized, any suggestions?
19:51:04  <glx> new SSD ?
19:51:15  <Eddi|zuHause> not really new
19:51:37  <Eddi|zuHause> it was in this mini-PC, and stopped working at some point. it's been sitting on my desk ever since
19:52:01  <LordAro> check the cable
19:52:13  <LordAro> otherwise, it's probably dead
19:52:27  <Eddi|zuHause> currently reading
19:52:43  <LordAro> (& MB SATA port)
19:52:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not the cable, i tried multiple ways of connecting
19:52:50  <LordAro> (& power)
19:53:06  <Eddi|zuHause> external usb connector, internal one on my main pc, etc.
19:53:29  <LordAro> probably dead then
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19:56:43  <glx> cost nothing to try the power cycle trick
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20:04:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
20:07:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
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20:15:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
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20:28:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
20:29:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
20:30:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
20:37:11  <andythenorth> all the same sprite
20:37:17  <andythenorth> do they look different?
20:37:27  <andythenorth> sprite / shape of train /s
20:39:35  <glx> I can see it's basically the same engine
20:40:00  <glx> but the colors make them totally different
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20:43:34  <andythenorth> winner
20:54:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't like sprite
20:54:36  <andythenorth> sprite is sad
20:58:11  <andythenorth> oops
20:58:26  <andythenorth> I hit industry directory menu item by accident
20:58:29  <andythenorth> bye bye game
20:59:03  <andythenorth> can I patch that menu item out?
21:02:31  <andythenorth> eh :) mac frame rate has tanked again
21:02:48  <andythenorth> it pegs one CPU core to 100%, and fps drops to 16-20 fps
21:03:00  <andythenorth> if a news message appears and I click on it
21:03:30  <andythenorth> CPU drops back to the usual 50%-80%
21:03:34  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just remove that loop from the function that crashes
21:03:36  <andythenorth> and FPS goes back to 32 fps
21:04:09  <andythenorth> the clicking news message thing may be coincidental to resolving the fps problem, but anecdotally one fixes the other
21:06:14  <andythenorth> and I hit industry directory button again :(
21:06:29  <andythenorth> this is slow gameplay :P
21:06:31  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i'm now at ... not sure if that counts as progress? :p
21:06:51  <andythenorth> 250GB
21:07:31  <andythenorth> about €30
21:07:44  <andythenorth> what's this worth as a fun activity? :)
21:08:25  <Eddi|zuHause> the true adventure was the experience we got on the way, and the friends we made.
21:09:03  <Beerbelott> Are there specs written anywhere about the RCON format used by that game? I cannot get past the initial size + type (both of which I seem to have figured as being uint16 & uint8). THe code seems to be reading 2 null-terminated strings in the payload (for authenticated RCON client commands), but sending just that fails with "Client <ID> made an error and has been disconnected. Reason: 'received invalid or unexpected packet'"
21:09:29  <Beerbelott> The size seems to be just right as incremeting it makes the server wait for the next packet
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21:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: there are some existing admin port libraries for python and java
21:10:23  <Beerbelott> This thing ?
21:10:55  <Beerbelott> Well. THis
21:12:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i was more thinking of
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21:21:32  <Beerbelott> Thx
21:27:11  <glx> <-- basic doc, some values need to be searched in the code
21:27:22  <glx> easier to use an existing lib :)
21:28:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019
21:37:16  <andythenorth> hmm
21:38:08  <andythenorth> what's the equivalent to 'electro-diesel' for a train that uses hydrogen fuel cell or wired supply?
21:38:23  <andythenorth> 'bi-mode' isn't specific enough :P
21:39:32  <andythenorth> hydrail? :P
21:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause> "Hybrid (Hydrogen)", "Hybrid (Diesel)", "Hybrid (Battery)"?
21:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand why there aren't any battery powered trains that can charge while under wire
21:42:27  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: There are battery-powered trams that do
21:42:38  <FLHerne> (in Seville, and Birmingham, and I think some other places)
21:43:09  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: And an experimental one here
21:43:35  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: yeah, but we used battery powered trains for over 100 years now
21:43:35  <FLHerne> (which did run in passenger service)
21:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but it never really took off
21:44:53  <FLHerne> If you have a branch short enough to run a BEMU, but electrified at one end, it's probably cheaper to electrify the thing than equip a small non-standard fleet with batteries
21:45:02  <glx> battery is mostly used to keep the lights in case of catenary fail here I think
21:45:24  <glx> but A/C doesn't work in this case
21:45:37  <FLHerne> Electrification is expensive if you need extra feeder stations, or complex multi-track gantries and junctions with lots of odd bits of wire
21:46:00  <FLHerne> Plain single/twin line is pretty cheap, unless you're NR
21:47:12  <FLHerne> It's only become plausible recently because (a) batteries are cheaper, (b) high-energy-density batteries mean much longer range
21:47:38  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i mean things like or
21:47:45  <glx> for a tram it's usually possible to run on batteries, but a train is heavier
21:48:29  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, we had a similar experimental one in the '60s
21:49:07  <FLHerne> Oh, no, those were mass-produced
21:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause> these weren't exactly experimental
21:49:32  <Eddi|zuHause> the ETA 150 were in service for 40 years
21:52:11  * FLHerne reads
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22:10:23  * andythenorth sleeps
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22:13:15  <Eddi|zuHause> is that just me or have there been half a dozen factorio clones recently?
22:14:55  <Eddi|zuHause> just popped up in my steam suggestions
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22:58:08  <Hazzard> Hello
23:01:02  <Hazzard> What actually uses indudstry->prod_level? Comments say not smooth economy
23:07:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas opened pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
23:13:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
23:14:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
23:24:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] nikolas commented on pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019
23:25:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] nikolas commented on pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019
23:48:13  <Samu> 30 rounds scored
23:48:46  <Samu> after 30 rounds, the best 2 AIs are neck and neck in score
23:49:00  <Samu> then there's a gap
23:49:36  <Samu> and after, there's 8 AIs which are really close to each other as well
23:50:23  <Samu> then there's another gap
23:51:05  <Samu> Oh I won't tell names
23:51:21  <Samu> 17 more rounds to score...
23:52:30  <Samu> there are now 18 AIs below WrightAI
23:52:58  <Samu> I consider WrightAI the line between good AI and bad AI
23:53:21  <Samu> for no real reason, though
23:53:29  <Samu> maybe because it was made by devs

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