Log for #openttd on 16th July 2019:
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06:06:35  <andythenorth> o/
06:30:02  <peter1138> Indeed.
07:20:04  <LordAro> i agree
07:24:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i still can't make windows boot from the usb drive...
07:25:07  <andythenorth> did anyone finish Iron Horse 2 yet?
07:26:14  <andythenorth> [crickets]
07:26:20  * andythenorth must pixels then
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07:27:10  <nakki> dude expects an answer within a minute
07:27:14  <nakki> in these morning hours
07:27:16  <nakki> what the fuck
07:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... if that wasn't a rhethorical question, then i don't know anymore
07:35:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] auge8472 commented on pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window
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07:59:25  <peter1138> Hmm.
08:00:23  <peter1138> So making my ride 48 minutes instead of 45 minutes reduces the amount of energy expended by a third.
08:01:23  <peter1138> Oh, 48 minutes instead of 42 minutes, oops.
08:01:25  <peter1138> Still.
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08:25:39  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like there's an optimization task between those
08:25:53  <andythenorth> daily choices
08:26:37  <andythenorth> I have been experimenting riding my bike with the power off
08:26:40  <andythenorth> it's a bit of a dog
08:27:05  <peter1138> Uh...
08:27:47  <peter1138> If I ride with the power off I can only go down hill.
08:28:59  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah I should aim for 45 tomorrow and see what difference that makes ;)
08:31:00  <LordAro> peter1138: it is sometimes disappointing how little difference "putting the hammer down" makes
08:31:07  <peter1138> I can expend less energy by taking the 12km route instead of the 22km route.
08:31:32  <LordAro> my route varies by 3 minutes at most
08:31:36  <peter1138> LordAro, that was quite a big difference, I think.
08:32:17  <LordAro> certainly don't get to work any quicker anyway, as i just end up standing around trying to cool down
08:32:18  <peter1138> Ah, I see what you mean, different perspective.
08:32:28  <peter1138> Tons more energy for marginal gains.
08:32:36  <LordAro> aye
08:32:51  <peter1138> I like expending energy, means I can eat more ;)
08:33:43  <LordAro> i have to wait until i stop sweating
08:33:51  <LordAro> especially in summer
08:34:03  <LordAro> but faster is more fun :)
08:35:04  <peter1138> Best to save faster for the weekend rides though :-)
08:35:21  <peter1138> Oh lord, there's 16 Greggs doughnuts in the kitchen.
08:35:30  <peter1138> Quite large things.
08:36:59  <peter1138> Fairly sure one of them would wipe out my morning commute, heh.
08:38:04  <LordAro> :D
08:41:15  <peter1138> Eh, about half of it, it turns out.
08:41:29  <Arveen> 🍩🍩🍩
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08:50:56  <peter1138> I think three would be too many :p
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08:52:11  <Eddi|zuHause> that means you can eat two? :p
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08:52:46  <peter1138> I might get told off :p
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09:18:19  <LordAro> peter1138: only if you're caught
09:18:44  <peter1138> I got told off a few months ago for eating all the cake...
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10:50:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
11:14:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
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11:18:13  <reldred> I should really learn how to write C
11:19:17  * reldred proceeds to instead binge vidyagame
11:50:35  * andythenorth can't unsee the offset failure in Iron Horse
11:50:40  <andythenorth> thanks peter1138 :P
11:51:53  <reldred> ahhhh, it's fun getting other road traffic in openttd, that towncars script is fun.
11:52:12  <reldred> rip my timetables
11:52:13  <peter1138> You're welcome.
11:52:23  <andythenorth> now I have to figure out why
11:52:29  <andythenorth> I aligned the sprites with the bounding box :P
11:53:10  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
11:53:42  <reldred> oh rip me indeed, bringing that high speed urban electric line up has now generated so much more traffic to go up the damn mountain
11:53:50  <reldred> <3 cargodist
11:54:03  <andythenorth> oic, the bounding boxes don't align with the sprites :)
11:54:05  <andythenorth> of course
11:54:10  * andythenorth checking base set trains
11:55:07  <andythenorth>
11:55:15  * andythenorth will  fix Horse
11:55:21  <reldred> I'm really enjoying iron horse btw andythenorth, those little doors open/close anims on the pax/mail carriages bring a smile to my face
11:55:30  <andythenorth> good, effort pays off then :)
11:55:42  <andythenorth> this BB issue explains why the Horse sprites jump as trains  go round corners
11:56:52  <reldred> Normally you'd have to put a gun to my head to get me off of NARS
11:58:19  <andythenorth> same
11:58:20  <andythenorth> oh the / angle doesn't have this problem
11:58:22  <peter1138> Hmm, nearly 1pm. I reckon that's my lunch time, then.
11:58:24  <andythenorth> how interesting
11:58:28  <andythenorth> yes lunch is happening now
11:58:33  <nakki> went to an italian for lunch, was good
11:59:20  <peter1138> I have, um... a salad I prepared earlier. Again.
11:59:28  <nakki> how surprising
12:09:54  <andythenorth> salad is good
12:10:00  <andythenorth> I might have salad
12:22:59  <peter1138> With tubular pasta and cheese?
12:23:49  <andythenorth> had that
12:23:53  <andythenorth> salad next ftw
12:24:02  <andythenorth> not many vitamins in tubes
12:29:40  <andythenorth> it's interesting the in-game sprite aligner supports  sub-pixel alignment
12:29:48  <reldred> huh
12:30:12  <andythenorth> 4 increments per on-screen pixel
12:30:59  <andythenorth> to make use of the numbers displayed, have to divide by 4
12:37:23  <andythenorth> offsets fixed :D
12:37:25  <andythenorth> looks better
13:24:11  <peter1138> Well, if you were drawing 4x sprites you'd be using the numbers as displayed, no?
13:24:13  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's a bit of a hack to support 4x view
13:31:54  <andythenorth> ok
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13:45:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM updated pull request #7608: Codechange: Performance improvement in k-d tree FindNearest()
14:01:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7608: Codechange: Performance improvement in k-d tree FindNearest()
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14:08:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
14:21:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #7656: Bridge remove cost does not take into account road/tram/rail remove cost.
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15:40:56  <nielsm>  <- do we need more pallette options for the tile highlight? than the current white, blue, pulsing red
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17:21:09  <Beerbelott> Wouldn't it be an idea to release versions though (a) torrent(s)?
17:21:26  <nielsm> why?
17:21:47  <Beerbelott> Might help offload the Web server for delivery, if that's seen as useful
17:22:25  <nielsm> the downloads are served via CDN
17:23:17  <nielsm> I don't know the numbers, but I'd like to believe the bandwidth costs for download delivery are insignificantly small
17:26:07  <Beerbelott> OK then. I was prone to ask "why not" ;)
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17:28:42  <nielsm> you can look up the transfer costs for Amazon S3, the average size of a download, and take some guesses at number of monthly downloads and see how much it adds up to
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17:58:04  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: there was a patch that could display two highlights per tile (inner and outer frame) in different colours
17:58:16  <nielsm> interesting
17:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe it also added more colours
18:24:27  <andythenorth> there's something like that in JGR
18:25:50  <frosch123> at some point icons are better
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18:37:33  <andythenorth> now what?
18:37:35  <andythenorth> OpenTTD?
18:37:39  <andythenorth> or blitz daily missions?
18:37:41  <andythenorth> :)
18:38:29  <frosch123> do you like trains?
18:41:08  <andythenorth> somewhat
18:44:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns
18:48:39  <andythenorth> blitz daily mission is 10 wins in light tanks
18:48:43  <andythenorth> I hate light tanks
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19:13:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
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20:02:39  * andythenorth trains
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20:31:43  <andythenorth> vehicles cargo is a bit unusual
20:31:58  <andythenorth> for cargo sprites
20:32:45  <nielsm>  I think this is an extremely long-winded bug report
20:32:53  <nielsm> not sure yet
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20:57:02  <nielsm> okay so it's an exploit with share buying/selling and sending money to other companies
20:58:05  <nielsm> something that would get you banned on any multiplayer server with active admins, pointless in singleplayer (you can just cheat), and how many multiplayer servers even have share buying/selling enabled?
20:59:10  <andythenorth> he probably lives nnear me somewhere
20:59:19  <andythenorth> it's a yogscast thing
21:01:52  <nielsm> the best way I can think of to fix this would be to make share trading work based on fixed assets only and not cash
21:04:11  <michi_cc> stock exchange being an exploit? Just declare it a real world feature :p
21:04:56  <michi_cc> Sounds like
21:18:17  <Beerbelott> The only way to address stock manipulation in games centered around a financial system (like Capitalism Lab) was to detect/forbig specific move based on conditions...
21:18:40  <Beerbelott> ie a proper stock market + policies implementation
21:19:03  <nielsm> yeah, something like you can only sell shares back to the public if the public actually would want to buy them
21:19:14  <nielsm> i.e. the company would have to be more than a shell
21:19:19  <Beerbelott> also forbiding in-house trading
21:19:35  <nielsm> and its valuation must match its performance
21:20:18  <Beerbelott> and proper stock valuation, with smoothness over time?
21:20:41  <Beerbelott> We are entering complex new mechanisms + policies here
21:20:47  <nielsm> yep
21:21:02  <Beerbelott> QUite interesting, but I guess it basically means impacting the economy one way or the other :D
21:21:15  <Beerbelott> Sth seen as on a side-track risk becoming central
21:21:27  <Beerbelott> Is it worth it?
21:21:32  <LordAro> could just remove it entirely
21:21:46  <nielsm> you'd have to do things like sending money to companies is not possible, but instead you'd have to make it an investment
21:21:54  <Beerbelott> If you make a Capitalism Lab + OpenTTD crossover, I take it! I'm 100% for! But... feasible? :D
21:22:15  <nielsm> yeah I think the share buying mechanism is originally meant more as a way to get rid of bad AI companies
21:22:21  <Beerbelott> LordAro: Well, as stated before it's not active by default in configuration, hence not in multiplayer
21:22:45  <Beerbelott> Hence, multiplayer servers won't be impacted unles the feature is explicitely activated
21:22:54  <Beerbelott> and in solo, there are cheats already
21:23:31  <Beerbelott> nielsm pointed that out
21:24:07  <nielsm> full RRT2 economy with players and companies separated, companies are founded with investment capital and/or bonds
21:24:12  <Beerbelott> It might be seen as annoying, but in the end who cares? If you wanna have plenty of money... good for you... that's not where the fun is?
21:24:31  <nielsm> and you can get more funding by selling more bonds or trying to offer more shares for sale
21:24:34  <Beerbelott> On servers where it is active and value/monye matters, I suppose moderation has to be there to make sure people don't troll already
21:25:11  <Beerbelott> there are tons of ways to be 1st already... by trolling others
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21:25:51  <Beerbelott> It's kinda painless money-generating too, as money comes fro mthin air
21:26:26  <Beerbelott> Even if you use another company to generate money, if you make sure leaving it in the state you found it (w/ same sum in bank account=, you gave yourself some money, hindered no-one... so business as usual?
21:26:56  <Beerbelott> You got yourself some money, which is not where the fun lies. Yes, you can build... but I guess you'll get bored of it if you relaly wanna play
21:27:30  <Beerbelott> I don't see this thing as being that big, from server moderation point of view, as longs as there are no serious leaderboards involved
21:29:10  <nielsm> so yeah I agree with the ancient bug report
21:29:24  <nielsm> leave it be, servers should be running with shares trading disabled
21:30:27  <nielsm> and I should have gone to bed an hour ago
21:30:27  <nielsm> gn
21:32:56  <andythenorth> same
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21:48:39  <Beerbelott> nn
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