Log for #openttd on 3rd August 2019:
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05:34:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 updated pull request #7658: Add: 'getsysdate' console command
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05:55:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 commented on pull request #7658: Add: 'getsysdate' console command
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06:14:26  <Beerbelott> Through the content manager, I just downloaded AIAI which has SuperLib v39 as a dependency. No upgrade available.
06:14:26  <Beerbelott> If I come back to the content downloader, it says it has upgrades for me. If I select them all, it selects *all* remaining versions of SuperLib (6, 13, 27, 36, 38, 40).
06:15:15  <Beerbelott> I would understand SuperLib 40 to be an upgrade (although since packages specify specific dependencies, might not they be incompatible with another, newer, version?)
06:15:31  <Beerbelott> But I don't get why *all* of them are selected + their own dependencies
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07:06:36  <LordAro> Beerbelott: that does sound a bit odd
07:07:10  <Beerbelott> I have reproduced the problem by stripping all content in my content_downloaded/ai folder
07:07:20  <Beerbelott> (and its subdir library)
07:07:46  <Beerbelott> Could you try to do the same, download AIAI again then come back and check for upgrades?
07:11:16  <LordAro> i can confirm
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07:12:48  <Beerbelott> Shall I fill an issue up?
07:13:07  <LordAro> sure
07:15:23  <Beerbelott> I am unsure of the expected behaviour, though. Since AIAI required SuperLib v39 and no other package required v40, should v40 be offered as an upgrade or not?
07:17:10  <LordAro> good point
07:17:27  <LordAro> maybe it's getting confused and just selecting all versions when it can't find a specific version
07:17:40  <LordAro> i'm not convinced "download all versions" should be the behaviour though
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07:18:52  <Beerbelott> Yeah that part of the mechanism goes haywire
07:19:41  <Beerbelott> But still, having a specific dependency on v39 (as specified in the AI configuration, and correctly detected on initial download), since *nothing* depends on v40, I guess it should not be loaded
07:19:51  <Beerbelott> AS I guess AIAI won't ever load v40 anyway
07:19:57  <Beerbelott> hence downloading it will be useless
07:20:17  <Beerbelott> ... unless Squirrel interprets versions as ">="?
07:22:12  <LordAro> it won't be squirrel, it'll be OTTD
07:22:17  <LordAro> but yeah, maybe
07:23:24  <Beerbelott> states "The version check is very important. If you expect version 1, but on  some users computer the library is in version 2, your AI will refuse to  load."
07:23:30  <Beerbelott> Hence it seems version comparison is strict
07:23:44  <LordAro> trusting the wiki is brave :p
07:24:01  <Beerbelott> hehe well that's all I could find...
07:24:18  <Beerbelott> I'm rather new at either scripting, AI, Squirrel language and all that
07:24:29  <Beerbelott> No even started and I hit a bug. *sighs* ;)
07:30:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe opened issue #7679: Content downloader brings unrequired "upgrades" up
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07:43:40  <andythenorth> moin
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07:49:17  <LordAro> Beerbelott: new users are the best at finding bugs
07:49:27  <LordAro> because they have a tendency to do things no one's thought of before :p
08:03:41  <andythenorth> James103 is the best at finding bugs :P
08:25:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7679: Content downloader brings unrequired "upgrades" up
08:29:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7666: Add: [Win32] Select MIDI device by port name
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08:57:41  <Samu> milek7: tested some stuff yet for me?
09:04:00  <Samu> could someone / milek7 test #7661 in multiplayer? I have no means to test it here
09:05:12  <Samu> test whether the interactive random range is multiplayer syncable, it happens when checking the delay for when the next AI starts
09:05:24  <Samu> requires start date not being 0
09:05:56  <Samu> in other words, check whether all AIs start simultaneously
09:06:09  <Samu> when start delay is not
09:06:10  <Samu> 0
09:08:38  <Samu> this is the questionable issue
09:09:18  <Samu> jesus fucking christ, i really need my system...
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09:27:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7630: Fix warnings from GCC9
09:28:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7612: Feature: Allow showing Newspaper and Ticker messages in parallel
09:36:06  <andythenorth> ugh
09:36:14  <andythenorth> how do I stuff the text stack correctly in NML? :(
09:36:33  <andythenorth> I have two values for power I want to display in buy menu extra text
09:36:43  <andythenorth> looks like they both have to be in register 0x100
09:36:57  <andythenorth> they're in the 100-9999 range
09:38:01  <andythenorth> did Eddi|zuHause fix his computer and come back yet? :)
09:38:14  <Eddi|zuHause> no?
09:39:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a textstack example somewhere
09:39:44  <andythenorth> looks like it has some built in NML magic to read specific bytes
09:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause>
09:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> you put the values in registers 0x100, 0x101, 0x102 etc, shifted by 16 bit each
09:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> so one in 0x100 (lower word), one in 0x100 (higher word), one in 0x101 (lower word), one in 0x101 (higher word), etc.
09:41:56  <andythenorth> thanks
09:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause> that is, unless you want to display Weird Stuff (tm) which might consume one byte or one dword
09:43:12  <andythenorth> POWER seems to consume two bytes
09:43:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd much rather have a "real" stack, where every time you write to that magic register, it acts as calling SetDParam, so you just write to the same register again
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09:45:32  <andythenorth> hmm
09:45:33  <andythenorth> STORE_TEMP(${consist.power_by_railtype['RAIL']}, 0x100), STORE_TEMP(${consist.power_by_railtype['ELRL']} << 16, 0x100)
09:45:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no
09:45:51  <Eddi|zuHause> must be in the same STORE_TEMP
09:45:57  <andythenorth> thanks
09:46:13  <andythenorth> but how? :o
09:46:20  <Eddi|zuHause> with |
09:46:23  <andythenorth> ok
09:46:41  <Eddi|zuHause> STORE_TEMP(A | (B << 16))
09:46:45  <andythenorth> makes sense
09:46:58  <Eddi|zuHause> parentheses might be redundant
09:47:08  <andythenorth> easier to read though :P
09:47:41  <andythenorth> done
09:47:50  <andythenorth> now displayed power values respect player setting
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10:18:01  <andythenorth> Horse 99%
10:18:09  <andythenorth> @calc 356 / 357
10:18:09  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.997198879552
10:18:18  <andythenorth> if I round that, it's 100% :P
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10:55:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also round 95% to 100% :p
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10:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause> you can round any value between 95% and 150% to 100% (which is a weirdly asymmetric interval)
10:58:32  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Why 149% but not 51%? If you treat it as 1.49, 0.51 rounds just as well.
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11:04:08  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: because you round to 1 significant figure, and 51 rounded to 1 figure is 50
11:21:15  <andythenorth> 1 angle left to draw :P
11:41:14  <peter1139> But you can't round Minecraft.
11:41:26  <andythenorth> voxels
11:43:31  <andythenorth> Horse 100%
11:44:00  * andythenorth 'finishing' things is not more rewarding than starting them
11:45:33  <andythenorth> ok so it's time for a beta
11:45:37  <andythenorth> does that reset the changelog?
11:46:09  <andythenorth> recent changelog entries have all been for alpha releases
11:46:19  <andythenorth> and detail changes against previous alpha
11:46:35  <andythenorth> but 2.0.0 should detail all the changes since 1.9.0?
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12:16:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you can leave out smaller changes that are "fix previous alpha"
12:19:46  <andythenorth> ok
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13:26:55  <andythenorth> do I need to set visual effect (steam engine smoke) positions per angle?
13:27:08  <andythenorth> seems that aligning for one angle makes them wrong for another
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13:46:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds odd
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14:30:14  <andythenorth> I vaguely recall something frosch said about it
14:30:36  <andythenorth> did we change the length of vehicles somewhere compared to original TTD?
14:46:57  <peter1139> I don't know but I have a cold beer.
14:57:34  <Eddi|zuHause> bah... everybody is sick all of a sudden...
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15:05:22  <LordAro> peter1139: i merely have a beer
15:05:36  <peter1139> This one is a lager so required chilling.
15:05:53  <peter1139> Although it's a "craft" lager so not so bad.
15:06:01  <peter1139> It's not really craft though, it's just marketting and pricing.
15:06:10  <peter1139> It came from a supermarket, after all.
15:09:47  <Arveen> open beer tycoon deluxe
15:21:24  <peter1139> That doesn't make sense.
15:21:35  <peter1139> OpenBTD
15:21:40  <andythenorth> tycoon beer open delucxe
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16:04:01  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1139: "craft" is "we have less than 500 employees"?
16:07:51  <andythenorth> beercraft
16:17:36  <nnyby> hmmm, it seems like it should be possible to run a dedicated openttd server without a graphics set, right? i'm trying to run an openttd server on my new freedombox but i'm getting a "Failed to find graphics set" error.
16:18:01  <peter1139> No, it's not possible.
16:18:39  <nnyby> alright, i mean, it's not a big deal to just download OpenGFX for this. i was just surprised.
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16:32:53  <LordAro> nnyby: there is a NoGFX lurking around somewhere, for this purpose
16:33:18  <LordAro> i have to admit, i don't recall the reason why the baseset is necessary, something to do with the number of sprites?
16:36:23  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc it's some sprites needed for default map generator
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16:36:39  * andythenorth considers reading effect vehicle code
16:36:44  <Eddi|zuHause> which are treated like a heightmap
16:36:51  <peter1139> Collision detection was the original reason.
16:37:06  <peter1139> That and the map generator sprites which barely anyone uses now.
16:37:23  <LordAro> ...collision detection?
16:37:34  <andythenorth> snail_UES_: have you successfully positioned smoke on vehicles that aren't 8/8?
16:37:48  <peter1139> Sprite sizes used to set up vehicle position hash, which was/is used by collision detection.
16:37:55  <snail_UES_> I don’t have locomotives that long...
16:37:57  <LordAro> interesting
16:39:01  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1139: that can't be right, as sprite sizes are not enforced between basesets, and would lead to desync?
16:39:13  <peter1139> I did say "original" reason.
16:39:42  <LordAro> which are the map generator sprites though?
16:39:54  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: in my scale, 8/8 corresponds to vehicles ~17.5m long, and it’s very rare for European steamers to be longer than that
16:40:04  <peter1139> They are the ones used by the map generator :p
16:40:09  <snail_UES_> now, US steamers are a different cup of tea :) (big boy)
16:40:16  * LordAro slaps peter1139 with a large trout
16:40:20  <andythenorth> snail_UES_: I mean < 8/8
16:40:21  <peter1139> Do you want me to actually look up the numbers?
16:40:30  <peter1139> Cos I really don't think that's something I'm going to do.
16:40:38  <LordAro> but it could be!
16:40:42  <snail_UES_> oh, smaller than 8/8? sure, all my NG steamers are shorter than that
16:41:00  <snail_UES_> I could even place steam when the engine is driving cab-forward
16:41:09  <andythenorth> reliably, for all angles?
16:41:21  <snail_UES_> yeah, the effect is pretty good IMO
16:41:43  <snail_UES_> of course it took a long time to test it and place it correctly
16:42:18  * peter1139 ponders tending to the slow-cooked pork ribs.
16:42:38  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: m4nfo has a command like “effect(steam(4))” to do that
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16:42:51  <andythenorth> must be vehicle offsets are wrong
16:42:56  <andythenorth> I changed them all recently
16:42:57  <snail_UES_> where “4” is the position of the steam puffs and it’s an integer between 1 and 16
16:43:10  <snail_UES_> yep, steam position depends on the vehicle offsets
16:43:16  <andythenorth> anyone know what I'm _supposed_ to align vehicles to,?
16:43:28  <LordAro> the tracks
16:43:30  <LordAro> obvs
16:43:37  <snail_UES_> I align them so that they’re centered in stations
16:43:39  <andythenorth> I have reset offsets like 100 times
16:43:50  <snail_UES_> so that they don’t fall off the tracks when they stop at the station edges
16:44:13  <snail_UES_> also, they don’t “jump” when I reverse the direction of a stopped train
16:44:22  <snail_UES_> the latter is very tricky and requires lots of tedious work
16:48:00  <andythenorth> I have no idea why these offsets are so wrong
16:49:19  <peter1139> Because
16:50:04  <andythenorth> I 'fixed' them when you reported the last bug with them :P
16:50:16  <andythenorth> I changed them to match original base set sprite positions
16:50:25  <andythenorth> but now they're wrong again :x
16:51:43  <andythenorth> unrelated snail_UES_ are you still using mac os?
16:54:48  <snail_UES_> yep
16:55:12  <andythenorth> self-compiled, or official build?
16:55:14  <snail_UES_> but high sierra. I’m not upgrading because my drawing program (graphic converter) is still 32 bit :p
16:55:21  <andythenorth> oh ok
16:55:27  <snail_UES_> I’m now using 1.9.1, but I can compile with no issues
16:55:44  <andythenorth> I was curious about performance on  Mojave
16:55:55  <andythenorth> but nvm
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16:58:10  <snail_UES_> not upgrading any time soon...
16:58:24  <snail_UES_> even because, every time I upgrade, programs such as MatLab stop working :P
16:58:37  <snail_UES_> and I’d have to find and *ahem* download a new version all the time...
16:58:49  <andythenorth> oic :P
17:10:42  <Samu> @seen milek7
17:10:42  <DorpsGek> Samu: milek7 was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 3 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <milek7> i can test something on my ryzen later
17:22:40  <andythenorth> sometimes I wonder if I make newgrfs on crack
17:22:56  <andythenorth> this commit is literally lies
17:25:33  <andythenorth> the previous values would be more correct w.r.t original trains, and would put smoke in the right place
17:34:12  <andythenorth> maybe I should take crack before playing :P
17:34:18  <andythenorth> then it will all be fine :D
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17:58:26  <Samu> there is a "probably not a problem" with #7661 when loading old savegames
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18:00:47  <Samu> _next_competitor_start is loaded from the old save, and no conversion occurs. Part of me thinks it doesn't have to be converted
18:02:13  <Samu> it still does what it's supposed to do, but it was set in a different manner than what I have now.
18:02:50  <Samu> i guess it doesn't need to change
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18:08:43  <Samu> my other part says: just reset it to 0 on load and let the new behaviour kick in
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18:59:58  <Beerbelott> LordAro:
19:00:28  <Beerbelott> LordAro: Saw your comment, and I happened to have noticed the exact same spot flagging packages for upgrade
19:01:15  <Beerbelott> As I stated before, the docs clearly state that the import mechanism shall specify the exact library version required by a script
19:01:47  <Beerbelott> Would it brake something if the version check was strict all of a sudden? How could it break stuff?
19:02:26  <Beerbelott> I noticed the week "unique_id" check... which is based on the first 4 characters of the short name of a script
19:02:30  <Beerbelott> weak*
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19:15:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on issue #7679: Content downloader brings unrequired "upgrades" up
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20:26:22  <Samu> milek7: are you alive?
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22:04:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe opened pull request #7680: Fix #7679: Check version when comparing scripts
22:04:49  <Beerbelott> LordAro: :)
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