Log for #openttd on 12th August 2019:
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07:47:02  <Samu> hi
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08:17:00  <afdal[m]> Neat is there an OTFC-Matrix bridge
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09:19:36  <Samu> what is this "matrix" bridge thing
09:19:50  <Samu> just a bunch of bots standing in chatrooms?
09:21:55  <afdal[m]> No I think there's more to it than that
09:22:31  <afdal[m]> somehow all of the Matrix users in here are being converted to discrete individuals to relay back and forth between IRC and Matrix
09:22:41  <afdal[m]> oh wait that is what you said
09:22:57  <afdal[m]> a bot for every Matrix user
09:23:28  <Wolf01> As long as agent Smith doesn't come here...
09:24:19  <afdal[m]> Never send a human to do a machine's job
09:29:54  *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
09:33:23  <Samu> no offense, but it looks like trash
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09:34:01  * LordAro assumes Samu has misunderstood something
09:34:51  <Samu> so if someone doesn't log in for years (person died), the bot stays in the chatroom forever?
09:35:22  <LordAro> in theory, but in practice their accounts expire and get turned off
09:35:36  <LordAro> that's all bouncers though, not just matrix
09:36:00  <LordAro> i.e. Yexo is still here, but hasn't been around since...
09:36:03  <LordAro> @seen Yexo
09:36:03  <DorpsGek> LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 6 years, 36 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, 19 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
09:36:37  <Samu> Yexo died?
09:36:44  <LordAro> no
09:36:51  <LordAro> went to work for google, i think someone said
09:37:02  <LordAro> regardless, is no longer here
09:37:49  <Samu> hmm, why won't everybody just rely on 1 bot
09:38:01  <Samu> it's just for logging chat?
09:38:13  <LordAro> because then it's unclear who's talking
09:38:30  <LordAro> for one way logging, sure, that's what Webster does
09:38:55  <LordAro> i have seen 1 "collective" bot used for collective bridges
09:39:00  <LordAro> they're universally trash
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09:43:55  <Samu> yeah, trash, what I said, too
09:53:49  <Samu>
09:57:02  <Samu> sounds like a 7-zip/winrar wanna be, it talks to every chat application and isn't a master of any
09:58:33  <Samu> and also has its own specs
09:59:47  <Samu> just a proliferation of bots
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10:26:34  <Samu> statues finally!
10:27:05  <Samu> 4/88, hmm i service many towns already when i build my first statues
10:39:45  <Afdal> whoa
10:39:50  <Afdal> you're right
10:40:08  <Afdal> turned off Riot and my Matrix bot is still in here
10:40:20  <Afdal> what the heck that's garbage
10:41:28  <Afdal> that actually has me seriously concerned about the actual trustworthiness of Riot as a secure and private chat tool
10:42:06  <Afdal> so it just leaves bots in after you turn your own client off to mine chats in your name?
10:42:11  <Wolf01> "Secure and private" lol
10:42:46  <Afdal> oh I get it, that's how it maintains a persistent log you can come back in and read later
10:42:57  <Afdal> that's really prejudice against the way IRC works thoguh
10:46:16  <milek7> eh, what's unusual in that?
10:46:38  <milek7> irc isn't very useful without bouncers
10:50:04  <ntsbmvnk> milek7: agree, this is quite common
10:50:12  <ntsbmvnk> I'm "online" 24/7 in IRC
10:50:17  <ntsbmvnk> but rarely actually here
10:51:18  <Wolf01> Bouncers for what? Read chat history? I don't even read logs :P
10:51:50  <ntsbmvnk> persistence
10:52:10  <ntsbmvnk> If someone messages me here and I'm offline I will miss that entirely
10:52:24  <Wolf01> Then you are using it wrong :P
10:52:48  <ntsbmvnk> there is no wrong way when IRC is a duct tape cryptid
10:53:12  <Wolf01> Servers have message services for that, with bouncers you only achieve that people don't know when you are online or offline
10:53:34  <milek7> there is away flag
10:53:41  <ntsbmvnk> Wolf01: that could be framed as a benefit for the security concerned
10:53:58  <milek7> and nobody uses memoserv or something
10:54:00  <Wolf01> Then don't use irc if you are afraid of security
10:55:01  <ntsbmvnk> Wolf01: oh, good point. I'll just go into the woods and become a hermit.
10:55:30  <Wolf01> Why the fuck people must react like you?
10:56:15  <Wolf01> If you need security there are better services for that, if you just need to chit-chat irc is fine
10:56:35  <ntsbmvnk> I'm not here for security, I'm here for chitchat
10:58:22  <ntsbmvnk> ultimately it's personal preference
10:58:40  <Wolf01> Fine
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12:13:55  <Samu> simcity 2000 first music?
12:55:09  <FLHerne> Afdal: perma-connected IRC relays have been a thing for as long as IRC itself
12:55:24  <FLHerne> Afdal: Case in point: I wouldn't have seen any of your messages if I wasn't using one :P
12:57:02  <FLHerne> Wolf01: Because sometimes there are interesting discussions when I'm not here, and I'd like to read them?
13:25:42  <Wolf01> Logs?
13:35:06  <LordAro> not all channels have (public) logs either
13:36:03  <Wolf01> That's a point, but for people like me which only join one channel and it happens to have a public log, a bouncer is nonsense
13:36:13  <Wolf01> I can't really see any benefit
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13:55:56  <ntsbmvnk> relying on a central source for logs isn't always good
13:56:11  <ntsbmvnk> I'd consider the public logs as a backup to your actual logs from being connected
13:56:25  <ntsbmvnk> also, see channels that have no public logging
14:01:15  <Wolf01> Then I'll miss some discussions, or maybe I'll miss nothing. If I'm not there to partecipate I could read what I can get but that's pointless, like gravedigging a discussion of yesterday
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14:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen constructive discussions here where each person answered half a day later
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14:41:29  <FLHerne> Wolf01: It's always the same people here, gravedigging yesterday's topic is easy if it wasn't solved then
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15:02:15  <Sacro> \o/
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15:20:49  <Artea> hello :D
15:22:06  <Artea> who needs 10 hours of Diablo 1's Tristam ? :P
15:51:24  <Wolf01> eddi, this is for you
16:19:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: thing is, it's using up 12GB of ram for me even without any mods
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16:51:22  <Samu> funding construction of buildings in town, is this a "friendly" attitude towards competitors? or selfish?
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16:52:22  <Samu> having a hard time to decide whether I put this behind the "friendly" setting or not
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16:54:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i can't say i particularly enjoyed that video
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17:20:02  <Samu> this is another super tune
17:23:50  <Samu> 60334 likes vs 1781 dislikes
17:24:04  <Samu> @calc 60334/(60334+1781)
17:24:04  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.97132737664
17:25:18  <Samu> how can ppl dislike this? it hurts
17:35:57  <peter1139> Because it's shit?
17:36:26  <LordAro> peter1139: how dare you suggest such an obvious untruth
17:36:26  <peter1139> It definitely hurts, yes.
17:37:06  <LordAro> Samu: if you could limit your music recommendations here, that'd be great
17:37:26  <LordAro> it's not that it's off topic (because we don't really care about that), it's more than no one else cares
17:37:43  <peter1139> It's more that the recommendations are shit ;p
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17:37:53  <LordAro> that works too
17:39:37  <Eddi|zuHause> "from here on, every line uttered in this channel must be on-topic!!"
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17:59:32  <andythenorth> frosch123 is this deployed / deployable anywhere? o_O
17:59:51  * andythenorth would like to publish some docs for Horse 2.0.0 release in September 
18:19:26  <frosch123> i did not deploy it
18:20:21  <frosch123> one can probably just ssh-upload the docs to bundles :p
18:20:29  <frosch123> locally built
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18:21:19  <andythenorth> I was offered ssh on devzone once...
18:21:23  <andythenorth> I rejected the idea :)
18:22:16  <andythenorth> I can publish on AWS, but it's a hideous url to the bucket, and I don't fancy configuring a domain for it....bundles is nice
18:24:43  <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i can't say i particularly enjoyed that video <- I laughed my ass off when I saw trucks jumping on the highway
19:03:26  <arikover> andythenorth: #IronHorse 2.0.0 beta 3: When starting on 1860, only the Cheese Bug and a brake van are available.
19:04:58  <andythenorth> oh I wonder why :)
19:06:17  <arikover> andythenorth: Happens with OTTD 1.9.1 as well as master-g27d676e17a
19:06:33  <arikover> andythenorth: Oh. Is that intended?
19:06:43  <andythenorth> repro-ed
19:07:05  <andythenorth> will look into it
19:07:11  <andythenorth> probably just randomisation maybe
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19:11:43  <andythenorth> more stuff starts appearing in 1861
19:13:59  <Wolf01> I think you should add some default vehicles always available up to introduction of "real" vehicles... not that could be "fixed" by adding another grf, but one should know the specs of every grf
19:14:33  <arikover> Isn't there a way to make related rolling stock available as soon as one is available? I seem to recall some work done recently on this topic...
19:15:10  <arikover> Anyway, it is not that important. Just random introduction dates.
19:15:38  <arikover> Other than that, really nice work.
19:16:01  <andythenorth> not sure how random works at game start
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19:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc there's no random within the first 2 years
19:19:12  <andythenorth> sounds familiar
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19:44:10  <andythenorth> should I try and fix it?
19:44:12  <andythenorth> or let it be?
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20:06:09  <arikover> The problem is probably not worth fixing yet... Maybe after Iron Mustang? ;)
20:11:30  <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean with "fixing"? just set the first generation of wagons to the same date as the first engine
20:14:20  <arikover> Or that.
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20:14:46  <Samu> andythenorth: do u have a newgrf that lets me disable mail trucks?
20:15:13  <andythenorth> not afaik
20:15:23  <Samu> :(
20:17:21  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: could work, would need some special casing
20:17:45  <andythenorth> but I already detect last generation in tech tree, prevent expiry
20:17:51  <andythenorth> could detect first generation too
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20:21:02  <andythenorth> ok it's on my list for a 2.1
20:21:12  <andythenorth> I don't want to risk adding new bugs for 2.0 now
20:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what magic goes into your decisions for introduction dates
20:28:42  <Eddi|zuHause> there's probably an easy solution...
20:31:11  <andythenorth> yes
20:31:30  <andythenorth> well and no also
20:31:53  <andythenorth> I was going to do 'if gen 1, force all dates to 1860-01-01'
20:32:00  <andythenorth> but that breaks games started before 1860
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20:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause> you're gonna have to set a minimum date, put it into the grf description, blame starting earlier than that on the player
20:41:49  <Eddi|zuHause> intro date should probably be a year or two before this minimum date, to prevent starting with too low reliability
20:42:32  * andythenorth looks if game start date is in global newgrf vars
20:43:05  <Eddi|zuHause> why would that be needed?
20:43:24  <andythenorth> I could conditionally handle the intro dates
20:43:29  <andythenorth> I shouldn't
20:43:31  <andythenorth> but I could
20:43:41  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like the wrong solution
20:51:23  <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> you're gonna have to set a minimum date, put it into the grf description, blame starting earlier than that on the player <- or put a horse cart multicargo introduced in year 1
20:52:08  <Eddi|zuHause> keep in mind there will be players that want to start in like 1800 with horse carts and ships that want to play until trains become available
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20:57:36  <andythenorth> yup
21:01:58  <Samu> i want to "play" without mail trucks
21:02:06  <Samu> want the AIs to
21:12:22  <andythenorth> make a grf
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21:26:30  <Samu> interesting orders railwai uses
21:27:18  <Samu> conditional orders, go back to the station and load at least 1% cargo
21:28:12  <Samu> loads something instead of travelling empty
21:28:17  <Samu> it also improves rating
21:28:39  <Samu> kinda abusive, but smart
21:31:39  <Samu> i wish not to resort to these tactics though
21:32:40  <Samu> gonna try implement some way to detect wether towns are being serviced already by competitors
21:33:24  <Samu> I kinda have it already, the "is friendly" option
21:35:37  <Samu> doesn't build stations near competitors stations coverage area, but it still tries to service the town, which might be a bad idea
21:35:59  <Samu> especially vs ais that use full load
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22:20:33  <Samu> - the unexpected challenger
22:20:44  <Samu> Convoy -- trashing the competition
22:21:11  <Samu> thrashing*
22:22:09  <Samu> 300 buses in 8 years, on the most difficult tileset
22:22:25  <Samu> and against other ais
22:22:40  <Samu> only buses
22:22:44  <Samu> for everyone
22:22:54  <Samu> i'm surprised
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