Log for #openttd on 16th August 2019:
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05:36:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] AbeWJS commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
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06:01:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
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07:24:45  <andythenorth> moin
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07:58:54  <andythenorth> so what about a FIRS economy where some industries only appear if built by player?
07:58:57  <andythenorth> ??
07:59:31  <Wolf01> Hmmm
08:00:31  <andythenorth> I think it might just cause bug reports :P
08:00:44  <andythenorth> like when I had industries with random cargos
08:01:21  <Samu> shall I create an issue for this
08:03:08  <LordAro> Samu: sre
08:03:11  <LordAro> sure*
08:05:31  <planetmaker> ho
08:06:35  <andythenorth> hi
08:07:13  <planetmaker> LordAro, you now take-on the lead in organizing the challenge or competition? >:)
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08:17:43  <Samu> the quadratic stuff wasn't applied to company headquarters
08:17:52  <Samu> quadratic/linear thingy
08:18:48  <Samu> not sure if it should
08:26:20  <andythenorth> cargo label for chromite ore?
08:28:53  <andythenorth> already got FECR for ferrochrome
08:31:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7697: GetCargoProduction on Company HQ returns 0 for PASS/MAIL, but on TileLoop it does produce cargo
08:33:12  <Samu> steps to reproduce, meh, I didn't reproduced, I just looked at the code
08:42:41  <Samu> CORE
08:42:43  <Samu> CHRO
08:42:57  <Samu> FECH
08:43:24  <Samu> FCRM
08:44:13  <andythenorth> CHRO
08:45:43  <Samu> CHOR
08:46:27  <Samu> CROR
08:46:30  <Samu> meh
08:47:04  <andythenorth> copper concentrate
08:47:05  <andythenorth> COCO
08:47:07  <andythenorth> CUCO
08:47:08  <andythenorth> ?
08:47:44  <Samu> CCON
08:47:57  <Samu> COPC
08:48:30  <Samu> why not use lower case
08:48:37  <Samu> or symbols
08:48:47  <Samu> or number
08:48:54  <Samu> CO_01
08:48:56  <Samu> CO_02
08:49:06  <Samu> CO_1 I meant
08:49:06  <andythenorth> convention is upper case
08:51:16  <Wolf01> It's always best to use the element chemical symbol
08:51:43  * andythenorth is running out of industry IDs
08:52:20  <Samu> some AI libraries use numbers and lower case chars, and they work
09:02:57  <Samu> hmm my AI is overly aggressive with advertising campaigns
09:03:14  <Samu> I wonder if it's worth it
09:03:31  <Samu> it has best profits atm
09:03:49  <Samu> but the advertisings, don't make it grow in company value
09:04:44  <Samu> I have to consider something more than just stations with rating below 50
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09:10:02  <Samu> cargo waiting at the station perhaps
09:10:23  <Samu> if it's too high, no need to advertise
09:10:28  <Samu> yeah, that might be it
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09:20:48  <Eddi|zuHause> copper concentrate is when you squeeze out all the water?
09:22:03  <andythenorth> copper tends to be in low-grade rock
09:22:16  <andythenorth> it's concentrated before any long-distance transport
09:22:33  <andythenorth> ammonia: AMMO, or NH3_ ?
09:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause> AMMO might lead to some confusion
09:23:59  <andythenorth> yes
09:24:01  <andythenorth> AMON
09:24:03  <andythenorth> NH3_
09:24:18  <andythenorth> ANHY
09:24:52  <Eddi|zuHause> no clue
09:38:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
10:01:09  <Samu> AIStation.GetCargoWaiting(st, cargoId) <= 300
10:01:55  <Samu> 100, 300, 600, 1000, 1500
10:02:11  <Samu> which one?
10:04:50  <Samu> which amount waiting at a station is "too high" to not consider an advertising campaign?
10:05:17  <Samu> im going with 300 for now
10:05:21  <Samu> but unsure
10:08:05  <Samu> with 100, it won't consider the top 12 out of 160
10:08:39  <Samu> with 300, it won't consider the top 4 out of 160
10:09:34  <Samu> maybe 100 is better? 100 or 300, must decide
10:15:40  <Samu> something tells me i should be going with 100
10:39:37  <Samu> have u actually tried to build roads near sloped terrain, it's kind of buggy
10:40:18  <Samu> building 2+ tile wide roads starting on slopped terrain kinda fails
10:41:40  <Samu> land slopped in wrong direction or something, even though it can be built if it's built as a 1 tile
10:42:01  <Samu> wide
10:43:00  <Samu> i'm 99% sure it's NotRoadTypes faulty
10:45:51  <andythenorth> how to repro?
10:46:17  <Samu> ok, i will repro
10:46:21  <andythenorth> all cases work for me so far
10:47:17  <Samu> sec, better get latest version to try
10:48:26  <Wolf01> How do you build 2 tile wide roads?
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11:03:33  <Samu> ah, got the buggy behaviour, posting
11:04:41  <Samu>
11:05:00  <Samu> the road SW-NE was there first
11:07:11  <LordAro> 2 tile wide roads?
11:07:25  <Wolf01> There's a foundation there, you can't build a road going downhill on a foundation
11:08:12  <Wolf01> In the other 4 roads maybe there's a slope?
11:08:33  <LordAro> nothing in that picture indicates a problem, nor anything specific to any mythical 2-tile wide roads
11:41:29  <Samu> it should connect
11:42:42  <Samu> it should end the connection on the road with foundation
11:43:03  <Samu> it used to do that
11:43:35  <LordAro> sure?
11:43:54  <Samu> sure
11:46:07  <Samu> is 1.9.2 without notroadtypes? i can try there
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11:52:06  <Samu> weird, it doesn't
11:52:35  <Samu> I'm confused, I don't recall it never connecting there
11:54:11  <Samu> it's doing the same in 1.9.2, I'm confused now
11:56:36  <Wolf01> It always have been like that
11:56:54  <Wolf01> If you want to build the last road bit to connect, you should stop there
11:57:32  <Wolf01> Trying to build a full tile throws error and both roadbits fail
11:58:05  <Wolf01> You could try to "fix" it by tuning the "buildstraightroad" function or whatever is called
12:02:00  <Samu> maybe that's how i remember
12:02:55  <Samu> releasing mouse on the foundation road
12:03:15  <Wolf01> Anyway, if you "fix" this to build at least the connection roadbit you are welcome
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12:06:19  <Samu> building a road towards SW-NE was what was triggering the wrong slope direction, maybe i was releasing on the next tile
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12:07:21  <Samu> terrain is inclined towards the back
12:07:54  <Samu> releasing mouse on the foundation was perhaps already the next tile
12:08:02  <Samu> behind
12:34:39  <Samu> if I were to implement exclusive transport rights, in which way should I use it
12:34:49  <Samu> the AI currently doesn't have it
12:35:35  <Samu> it's anti-competitive in my view, but i could make it an option
13:43:55  <andythenorth> how to make towns require building materials to grow?
13:43:57  <andythenorth> o_O
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13:53:42  <Wolf01> That is a good question
13:54:02  <andythenorth> last time I asked this, Truebrain rage quit :(
13:54:21  <andythenorth> the question is jinxed :)
13:57:13  <Samu> you need a gs?
13:57:46  <Samu> to set cargo goals for towns
13:57:52  <Samu> :o
13:58:19  <Wolf01> No, he need the same thing present in tropic and alpine with water and food respectively
13:58:46  <Samu> yes, a GS
13:58:47  <Samu> then
13:59:00  <andythenorth> no
13:59:11  <andythenorth> at the risk of having this conversation for the 99th time
13:59:21  <andythenorth> GS isn't appropriate
13:59:31  <andythenorth> GS is blind to newgrfs
14:00:01  <andythenorth> oof this always ends in rage quit :)
14:00:20  <Wolf01> Just don't :P
14:00:37  <andythenorth> +1
14:00:43  <Samu> there's some CityBuilder GSs out there
14:01:11  <Samu> let me think
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14:04:16  <andythenorth> Samu: unstated assumption, this needs to be in an industry newgrf
14:04:19  <andythenorth> it's not possible :)
14:04:25  <andythenorth> sorry to waste your time
14:05:29  <Samu>
14:05:45  <Samu> is there a TOWN_CUSTOM_GROWTH on newgrfs stuff?
14:07:22  <andythenorth> there is a town effect flag on newgrf cargos
14:09:57  <Samu> ah, let me search
14:11:22  <Samu> AI's has some TownEffect functions
14:16:05  <Samu>
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14:16:33  <Samu> i have this little function that determines which cargo type is needed to grow a town
14:16:48  <Samu> it detects FOOD and WATER for sub-tropic
14:16:52  <Samu> and FOOD for arctic
14:16:58  <Samu> and the amount required is 1
14:17:00  <Samu> just 1
14:17:06  <Samu> per month, i guess
14:17:06  <andythenorth> yes
14:19:33  <Samu> i thought it was customizable via newgrf changing towns
14:21:14  <andythenorth> there is a newgrf customisation point in cargos
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14:24:19  <Samu> have to try some newgrfs... to see what this function comes up with
14:30:41  <Samu> FIRS 2.1.5?
14:32:14  <Samu> ok, it says it requires FOOD and GOOD, with FIRS 2.1.5 on sub-tropic
14:32:33  <Samu> amount is 1 for both
14:34:55  <Samu> on temperate, nothing is required on any town
14:36:02  <Samu> on sub-arctic tileset ir requires FOOD, amount 1
14:36:07  <Samu> it*
14:37:04  <Samu> NOTHING ON TOYLAND
14:37:06  <Samu> sorry caps
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15:29:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SoothedTau commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
15:36:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
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15:57:04  <peter1139> Was it lunch time?
15:57:40  <andythenorth> yes
15:57:51  <peter1139> Great.
15:57:55  <peter1139> Cos I had lunch.
15:58:28  <peter1139> I might have a bit of pizza tonight. It's plain cheese, should I add some toppings?
15:59:25  <Samu> Is there actually a GS that changes town cargo goals at all?
16:01:06  <Samu> I tried some CityBuilder GS and none change towns and total town whatever control
16:01:27  <Samu> at least from an AI point of view, nothing changes
16:04:26  <Samu> what the heck can GS's do then? :(
16:06:51  <Samu> enum  	TownEffect {    TE_NONE,    TE_PASSENGERS,    TE_MAIL,    TE_GOODS,    TE_WATER,    TE_FOOD  }  	The effects a cargo can have on a town.
16:17:03  <andythenorth> peter1139: add ground pepper
16:17:13  <Wolf01> Add more cheese
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16:31:46  <Samu> andythenorth: does this make any sense?
16:32:33  <Samu> GOOD behaves like water?
16:32:41  <Samu> is that how u made it?
16:32:55  <andythenorth> yes but no but yes
16:33:26  <Samu> ook
16:33:43  <andythenorth> there is no water cargo
16:33:50  <andythenorth> so something has to substitute
16:34:34  <andythenorth> in the new Steeltown economy, Carboon Steel has to have TE_WATER :P
16:37:42  <Samu> you can't change town effects via newgrf?
16:38:17  <andythenorth> it is possible yes
16:38:51  <andythenorth> but there isn't always an equivalent cargo
16:39:08  <Samu> you mean an effect?
16:39:22  <Samu> seems that you assign an effect to a cargo
16:39:35  <andythenorth> yes
16:39:54  <andythenorth> additionally, it has to be accepted by the houses
16:40:05  <andythenorth> which has some unelated issues
16:40:09  <Samu> not necessarily
16:40:16  <Samu> water is accepted by an industry
16:40:31  <Samu> but has an effect on towns
16:40:36  <andythenorth> actually yes, accepted by the houses or an industry
16:42:12  <Samu> houses can accept 15 cargoes, i think
16:42:29  <Samu> not sure, but i remember something being increased on them
16:42:46  <andythenorth> by convention, industry and house newgrfs are separate
16:42:57  <andythenorth> and the base set houses have a few limitations
16:43:25  <andythenorth> it is possible to fix in a newgrf though, just work
16:44:41  <Samu> where are tourists?
16:44:49  <Samu> isn't it FIRS that have tourists?
16:47:33  <Samu> jesus what a slow ass computer..
16:48:49  <andythenorth> ECS is tourists
16:51:30  <andythenorth> hmm
16:51:42  <andythenorth> copper industry in chile needs 400,000 tons of grinding balls every year
16:51:44  <andythenorth> who knew
16:51:52  <andythenorth> that's a cargo I wouldn't have thought of
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16:53:39  <Samu> launching openttd with newgrfs is super slow on this computer...
16:55:25  <Samu> looks like ECS has done it correctly
16:55:47  <andythenorth> o_O
16:56:27  <super_spooky> andythenorth: holy smokes chile produces a lot of copper
16:56:40  <andythenorth> yair
16:57:20  <Samu> ah, no, they cheat with goods
16:57:35  <Samu> GOOD has a TE_FOOD effect
16:57:42  <andythenorth> 'cheat' :)
16:58:24  <Samu> be back later
17:07:19  * andythenorth invents yarn cargo
17:07:31  <andythenorth> nielsm: all these extra cargos at industries are super :)
17:23:37  <Samu> hmm ECS has two WATR cargos
17:23:56  <Samu> cargo 27 and cargo 9
17:24:18  <Samu> both with TE_WATER effect
17:25:57  <Samu> Effect of TOUR is TE_PASSENGERS
17:26:08  <Samu> effect of PASS is TE_PASSENGERS
17:26:26  <Samu> so there can be more than 1 cargo type with the same effect
17:27:28  <Samu> FIRS doesn't do this
17:28:40  <Samu> i thought cargo labels had to be unique
17:28:50  <Samu> but k
17:31:46  <Samu> look at cargo 9 and cargo 27
17:32:24  <Samu> which of the WATR cargo is the town requiring?
17:32:33  <Samu> any of them?
17:34:45  <Samu> very confusing with the Goods too
17:35:46  <Samu> if I deliver Food to the town, will it grow?
17:36:39  <Samu> the script lists 3 cargos needed to grow that town
17:36:49  <Samu> or 4
17:37:07  <Samu> FOOD, GOOD, WATR (9) and WATR (27)
17:37:24  <Samu> the town window displays only 2
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17:48:18  <Samu> just tested: delivered FOOD to town and Goods were delivered
17:48:54  <Samu> Goods required became Goods delivered, even though I am transporting FOOD
17:52:21  <Samu>
17:57:30  <Samu> hmm, so in reality, "Goods" in the town window is the town effect TE_FOOD, but why that name?
17:59:42  <Samu> hacks! hacks everywhere!
18:17:15  <peter1139> Anything good on Netflix at the moment?
18:22:12  <Markk> No, nothing.
18:22:49  <Markk> That's quite the subjective thing, I believe.
18:24:43  <peter1139> :/
18:25:25  <peter1139> It is subjective indeed. But my question kinda reads "What do you think is worth watching on Netflix?"
18:25:52  <peter1139> And if you think there isn't anything, of course, pipe up :-)
18:50:23  <Wolf01> I'm watching Pokémon on Netflix when I have nothing else better to do... s/watching/sleeping :P
19:03:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never watched anything on netflix
19:03:18  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that the company that sends you DVDs per mail? :p
19:04:45  <acklen> personally I like the Zoo
19:04:53  <acklen> it's so bad it's good
19:05:54  <peter1139> heh
19:07:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so... i made some progress on my road mod, i successfully edited the model in blender, but now i need to find and edit the surface texture...
19:07:55  <Eddi|zuHause> also, looks like i need to make another model for the connection node
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19:13:15  * andythenorth lost in textile industry stuff
19:15:58  <Samu> static const uint TOWN_GROWTH_WINTER = 0xFFFFFFFE; ///< The town only needs this cargo in the winter (any amount)
19:16:13  <Samu> @calc 0xFFFFFFFE
19:16:13  <DorpsGek> Samu: 4294967294
19:16:44  <Samu> how is this any amount
19:17:34  <Samu> if the amount is 4294967294, then it is actually 1, ok,  I see
19:17:37  <Samu> lol
19:17:40  <Samu> hacks
19:19:05  <Samu> i looked at town_gui.cpp, it seems to be prepared to accept more than 2 town effects
19:19:11  <Samu> to display*
19:19:55  <Samu> there are 5 town effects, seems ready to display all 5
19:20:03  <Samu> but
19:20:29  <Samu> how to make a town require 5 town effects
19:31:38  <Samu> there's also CargoClass, but for towns that's irrelevant
19:54:10  <Samu> oh, CargoClass are are flag kind of enum
19:54:16  <Samu> 1 << 1
19:54:37  <Samu> 1 << 2
19:54:45  <Samu> 1 << 3 etc... 1 << 9
19:55:13  <Samu> nowhere in the noai is that even mentioned
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20:23:45  <andythenorth> does anyone know what builders yards are for in FIRS?
20:23:48  <andythenorth> they don't do anything
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20:53:46  <Eddi|zuHause> weren't they just a sink for building materials?
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21:11:34  <andythenorth> yes
21:20:46  <andythenorth> I've deleted them
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21:22:56  <Samu> andythenorth: which cargo is SCMT, it has a CargoClass of CC_BULK | 4096
21:23:35  <Samu> that 4096 is not listed here
21:23:40  <Samu> would be 1 << 12
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21:25:52  <andythenorth> Samu:
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21:27:13  <Samu> non-pourable, that's a weird one
21:27:40  <Samu> so you can invent unofficial CargoClasses?
21:31:21  <Samu>
21:31:29  <Samu> this is not in openttd
21:31:36  <Samu> why is it in newgrf
21:32:07  <Samu> scripts also have no access to those cargoclasses
21:32:25  <Samu> unless they test all values
21:45:54  <Samu> also the documentation doesn't even warn that CargoClasses are flag or bitmask
21:45:59  <Samu> in noai
21:46:01  <Samu> meh...
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