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00:00:03 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 00:14:41 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 00:22:59 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 00:30:29 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 00:54:03 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 01:45:59 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:30:27 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:33:49 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:32:54 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 03:42:44 *** Baricus has quit IRC 05:26:21 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 05:43:02 <Eddi|zuHause> always these IRC Noobs who don't have the patience to wait 6 hours for a reply 05:53:07 *** nielsm has quit IRC 05:59:25 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: they did better than most 06:00:04 <LordAro> just asked at the wrong time 06:00:42 <LordAro> not sure what could be going wrong though, i don't think i've ever used make install 06:01:10 <LordAro> probably a PATH issue 06:01:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that was my first thought, too 06:15:53 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 06:20:28 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 07:40:44 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 07:40:55 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd 07:41:16 *** rubenwardy has quit IRC 07:42:34 *** rubenwardy has joined #openttd 07:56:48 *** jinks has quit IRC 07:56:51 *** jinks has joined #openttd 08:04:20 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 08:26:45 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:06:55 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:34:01 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 10:54:08 *** Samu has quit IRC 12:11:41 *** arikover has joined #openttd 12:23:06 *** Samu has joined #openttd 12:37:03 *** scuddles has joined #openttd 12:55:25 <scuddles> https://i.imgur.com/XFLAyrz.png 12:55:30 <scuddles> feels NARS man 13:02:19 <Wolf01> It's me or it looks like a gif? 13:27:34 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 13:39:14 <peter1139> scuddles :D 13:41:20 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:23:46 *** Samu has quit IRC 14:44:34 *** Samu has joined #openttd 14:44:35 <Samu> I don't understand. Now that the AI is more flexible with road pathfinder/management, it's performing worse.. :( 14:47:37 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 14:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't look like a terribly efficient track layout 14:55:03 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 14:55:12 <andythenorth_> o/ 14:56:01 <LordAro> is it 14:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i think that's just opengfx's quality 14:56:14 <andythenorth_> Lunch or coffee? 14:56:20 <LordAro> coffee 14:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause> if coffee includes cake, i'm in 14:57:16 <andythenorth_> Can anyone build Iron Horse and publish the docs? 14:57:25 <andythenorth_> I am away from my laptop 14:57:40 <andythenorth_> :p 14:58:43 <andythenorth_> I am using a device that probably can’t open zips :p 14:59:06 <andythenorth_> Wonder if it can run python? o_O 15:01:37 <andythenorth_> Hmm there are apps that use a remote server to compile the python :p 15:03:19 *** andythen_ has joined #openttd 15:03:19 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 15:05:41 *** andythen_ has quit IRC 15:11:48 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:30:59 *** Lejving_ has quit IRC 15:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (not sure i want to know what he's doing) 15:44:06 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 15:45:25 <andythenorth_> Trains are complicated :p 15:46:09 <andythenorth_> 4 axle diesels vs 6 axles reasons complex 15:46:12 <FLHerne> andythenorth_: What's your device? Termux gives you a pretty complete Linux userspace on Android things 15:46:33 <andythenorth_> iPad, everything is sandboxed 15:46:56 <andythenorth_> But there’s some equivalent of Termux 15:47:43 <FLHerne> There's a reason I didn't get an iPhone :P 15:48:02 <FLHerne> (well, more that I object to paying Apple to write software for my own device) 15:48:30 <FLHerne> But having a Linux kernel is certainly helpful 15:49:03 * andythenorth_ designing North American Horse 15:49:31 <FLHerne> Now I have a complete cmake, clang, Python, blah toolchain in my pocket which is always fun 15:49:34 <andythenorth_> US trains are unhelpful for game design 15:50:07 <andythenorth_> UK trains have mostly tended to faster, stronger, higher capacity per unit 15:50:20 <andythenorth_> Very game suitable 15:51:55 <FLHerne> Whereas the US has mostly gone backward since 1970? 15:52:16 <andythenorth_> US passenger trains were anecdotally hitting 120mph in the 1930s 15:52:28 <andythenorth_> and have got slower since 15:53:20 <andythenorth_> Steam engines hit 5000hp per unit in the 1930s, large diesels are 3000-4000hp 15:53:53 <andythenorth_> fast freight was 80mph, now restricted to 60 in most places 15:54:10 <arikover> Damn trucks! 15:54:52 <andythenorth_> AC motors have replaced DC on large diesels, and can tolerate more low speed maximum power operation 15:55:13 <andythenorth_> So freightbtrains have fewer engines and less hp-per-ton 15:55:30 <andythenorth_> They just go on their knees and crawl up hills slowly 15:56:06 <andythenorth_> Very inconvenient for game design in OpenTTD meta 15:56:19 <andythenorth_> :D 15:56:25 <FLHerne> andythenorth_: "large diesels are 3000-4000hp" is mostly because they can multi easily? 15:56:39 <andythenorth_> Yes, completely 15:57:05 <FLHerne> There was one generation of huge multi-prime-mover diesels and turbines that were meant to replace large steam locos 1:1 15:57:08 * andythenorth_ assumes the OpenTTD meta id 15:57:35 <FLHerne> And then everyone realised that was the wrong approach 15:57:37 <andythenorth_> ...meta is “moar, faster, in fewer tiles” 15:58:26 <arikover> andythenorth_: Plus in OTTD North America, things don't have to be 100% like in real world North America... 15:58:31 <FLHerne> Eh, at least double-stack containers are a plus 15:58:41 <andythenorth_> Yes to both 15:58:49 <FLHerne> (but you might need to invent non-clipping tunnels, finally) 16:02:38 <andythenorth_> Are there any other metas besides “moar”? :p 16:02:38 <andythenorth_> “Model trains” ? 16:03:14 <FLHerne> Yes 16:04:07 <FLHerne> Although in that case, "moar" helps mitigate the ludicrous effects of town growth 16:04:22 <FLHerne> (might be easier now it's non-quadratic) 16:04:23 <andythenorth_> Is “coop” a meta? 16:04:32 <andythenorth_> SRNW and all that jazz 16:04:47 <FLHerne> Not one worth caring about as a set designer, probably? 16:06:38 <FLHerne> Appearance doesn't matter, all the trains are standardized and upgrading them would break the magic 16:06:48 <andythenorth_> Is “stability” a valid meta? :p 16:07:28 <andythenorth_> After 1930 net performance is the same, but train units change stats and appearance 16:07:42 <FLHerne> No 16:07:42 <andythenorth_> :p 16:07:51 <andythenorth_> Boring?? 16:08:46 <FLHerne> Traffic density rises as you connect more stuff and grow towns/industries 16:09:31 <FLHerne> With increasing capacity, you can hope to make incremental improvements to the core network 16:09:46 <andythenorth_> So one thing about ~1930s 16:10:02 <FLHerne> A "stable" set would just force building effectively point-to-point connections for every new route, which would be boring 16:10:23 <andythenorth_> There is big difference between anecdotes of high speed, and actual speeed 16:10:41 <FLHerne> Trying to grow an existing network without breaking the whole thing is a lot more fun than building one in the first place 16:11:19 <andythenorth_> Averages are much lower than the rare headline grabbing speeds 16:11:30 <andythenorth_> And not all engines were huge 5000hp monsters 16:11:30 <andythenorth_> Many were older and smaller 16:13:18 <andythenorth_> US railroads are remarkably aggressive with engine replacement though, many lasted 10-15 years, then worn out or superceded 16:13:41 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:13:54 * andythenorth_ wonders about compressed generations, 20 years not 3p 16:14:01 <andythenorth_> 30 * 16:14:26 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:18:55 <andythenorth_> More drawing eh :p 16:23:39 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 16:27:14 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:33:51 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 16:34:14 <Wolf01> Sooooo we are again governless 16:43:03 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 16:44:09 <acklen> join the club! 16:46:00 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 16:46:19 <arikover> I think the base strings in French should be updated. How do I do that ? Being registered as NewGRF translator doesn't help, right ? Is there something similar for base strings, or should I send a pull request on Github ? 16:47:36 <nielsm> http://translator.openttd.org 16:49:16 <Samu> I still don't understand how can convoy be so strong 16:49:25 <Samu> there's more than just that trick 16:49:37 <arikover> nielsm: Thank you ! 16:51:26 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 16:55:19 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:55:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:56:53 <arikover> nielsm: Ok, I'm already registered here apparently, but have no access to the "OpenTTD trunk" project. 16:57:25 <nielsm> there's some email you need to write to ask permission 16:57:31 <nielsm> translators@openttd.org I think 16:58:55 <Samu> i'm bad at variable names 16:58:57 <Samu> last_managed_management 16:59:08 <Samu> last_managed_array 16:59:35 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 17:01:24 <Samu> last_managed_array should be route 17:01:59 <Samu> the other.. 17:02:17 <Samu> I have 9 "managers" 17:03:56 <Samu> "managing route " + i + ". expandStations" 17:03:59 <Samu> managing route " + i + ". addremoveVehicleToRoute 17:04:13 <Samu> "managing route " + i + ". updateEngine" etc... 17:04:28 <Samu> i is the route 17:04:52 <Samu> expandStations, addremoveVehicleToRoute, etc.. are the managing portion 17:05:12 <Samu> and i manage both i and that 17:05:18 <Samu> i dunno what to call those 17:06:03 <Samu> last_managed_management :p 17:10:40 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 17:13:58 <arikover> nielsm: Thank you again! 17:18:43 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 17:20:43 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 17:28:44 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 17:44:30 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:44:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:49:28 *** spnda has joined #openttd 18:15:52 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 18:18:29 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 18:57:40 <Samu> I need advice, my AI underperforms before 1965, when Hereford Leopard Bus becomes available 18:57:58 <Samu> MPS Regal Bus 18:58:43 <Samu> it's a slow bus, initial towns are also smaller 18:59:46 <Samu> some don't even grow 19:00:42 <Samu> it's hard to maintain a good station rating with this bus, unless i make the routes very short 19:02:13 <Samu> then i watch convoy, and I wonder... what did he do better that I didn't already? 19:02:34 <Samu> he obliterates everyone 19:02:42 <Samu> time and time again 19:03:15 *** spnda has quit IRC 19:03:26 <Samu> early game, convoy reigns supreme 19:03:36 <Samu> he's the master of MPS Regal Bus 19:04:38 <Samu> he manages to get 500 buses before Hereford Leopard Bus, against 14 other AIs in sub tropic or sub-arctic 19:05:26 <glx> passenger only or does it also moves coal ? 19:05:39 <Samu> passengers only, I limited all AIs to passengers 19:06:26 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 19:06:40 <Samu> before I implemented the convoy trick of delaying the start of buses, my AI was really trash 19:06:56 <Samu> convoy must have some other tricks 19:07:03 <Samu> and I can't see what 19:07:58 <glx> I guess it does not only delay, but maybe also manage the timetable 19:09:29 <Samu> hmm i think there's no timetable support for AIs 19:12:52 <Samu> i've also disabled distant join stations, to make them all play without station spreading tricks 19:13:11 <Samu> play as clean as possible 19:18:12 <Samu> must check openttd code 19:18:47 <Samu> find out the exact timing between buses 19:28:10 <Samu> 3 for max rating 19:28:13 <Samu> 3 days 19:28:29 <Samu> but i can't put a bus every 3 days... 19:29:01 <Samu> at least on towns that dont produce decent quantities of passengers, and against that many AIs 19:30:37 <Samu> well, 3 days, have to experiment 19:48:58 <Samu> estimate buses needed, convoy got 14 on a route of distance 119 19:50:00 <Samu> optimal vehicle count, ludiai afterfix got 13 on a route with distance 95 19:51:13 <Samu> @calc 119/14 19:51:13 <DorpsGek> Samu: 8.5 19:51:19 <Samu> @calc 95/13 19:51:19 <DorpsGek> Samu: 7.30769230769 19:51:31 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:11:19 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:30:09 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 20:32:01 *** scuddles has quit IRC 20:38:10 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 20:38:53 <Samu> convoy uses bus stops, i use drivethroughs or bus stops, depending on what's most suitable 20:38:58 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 20:39:12 <Samu> but most of the time it's drivethrough 20:41:52 <andythenorth_> So 10/8 vehicles then? o_O 20:41:55 <Samu> the advantage of bus stops is that it creates a "queue" of buses waiting for each other to enter the station, it's maintaining the rating higher for longer 20:42:06 <andythenorth_> With no newgrf tricks?? 20:43:23 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:43:33 <Samu> no newgrfs here 20:45:12 <Samu> hmm my AI stops adding buses after what it thinks it's the max route cap 20:45:21 <Samu> it's underestimating :( 20:46:08 <Samu> I stopped at 18, Convoy already has 25+ buses on their routes 20:47:51 <Samu> that bus stop "trick", if you may call it 20:48:16 <Samu> also increases the chances that buses have something to load 20:48:46 <Samu> even if just 1 passenger 20:50:29 <Samu> okay, so 2 problems after all 20:51:01 <Samu> bad route cap estimate, and bus stops being better than drivethrough for cargo rating 20:51:29 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 20:53:09 <Samu> i dont feel like doing changes to drivethrough/busstop code. it's already complex 20:53:31 <Samu> but i can tweak the esimator a bit 20:54:57 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 20:55:15 <andythenorth_> Silly disconnects, I give up : p 21:09:20 <Samu> perhaps now I'm overestimating... we'll see 21:09:26 <Samu> from 13 to 23 21:09:33 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 21:10:55 <Samu> fast forward is so slow 21:26:46 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:06:42 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 22:16:43 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:42:07 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:13:18 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:44:07 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 23:53:44 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 23:56:51 *** arikover has quit IRC