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00:21:51 *** tokai has joined #openttd 00:21:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 00:28:48 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 01:58:01 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:14:32 *** glx has quit IRC 02:21:53 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:25:09 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:31:15 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 05:36:57 *** Laedek has quit IRC 05:37:24 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 07:02:42 *** WWacko1976-work has joined #openttd 07:42:28 *** Samu has joined #openttd 07:57:13 *** Etua has joined #openttd 08:32:58 *** Etua has quit IRC 08:53:10 *** Etua has joined #openttd 10:14:53 *** Etua has quit IRC 10:35:47 *** Etua has joined #openttd 10:55:02 *** Samu has quit IRC 12:09:46 *** Etua has quit IRC 12:15:55 *** Etua has joined #openttd 13:06:13 *** Etua has quit IRC 13:10:12 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:20:46 <Samu> are the forum ads 13:21:16 <Samu> supposed to be excessively big? 13:22:38 <Arveen> ads ? 13:24:01 <Arveen> oh there is an ad banner at the top 13:24:03 <Arveen> never noticed, heh 13:24:31 <LordAro> TrueBrain: DorpsGek_II seems oddly silent, has it broken, or has GH broken webhooks? 13:24:40 <Samu> https://imgur.com/9751s21 13:24:41 <Arveen> now that i seen it i totaly want to install PDF convert tools 13:24:43 <Samu> bottom side 13:25:16 <Arveen> way smaller for me - like 100x600 px 13:26:43 <LordAro> Samu: that's definitely excessively big 13:26:45 <LordAro> orudge: ^ ? 13:27:00 <Samu> https://imgur.com/undefined top side 13:27:17 <LordAro> Samu: you've done that several times 13:27:20 <LordAro> think before you press enter 13:27:31 <Samu> ops 13:27:32 <LordAro> "undefined", funnily enough, is not a valid imgur link 13:27:38 <Samu> https://imgur.com/undefined 13:27:43 <LordAro> ... 13:27:46 <Samu> seriosuly, i copy link and it gives me that 13:27:55 <LordAro> but you still press enter yourself 13:27:59 <Samu> https://imgur.com/MWU0DQT 13:28:21 <Samu> the upload speed here must be trash 13:36:14 <peter1139> That first image is clearly an advert faking being a forum section... just doesn't work with that theme, heh. 13:43:10 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:45:56 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 15:20:35 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:32:50 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 15:33:23 <andythenorth_> Yo 15:33:44 <andythenorth_> Important news: I had lunch 15:35:54 <andythenorth_> that is all I can say before this connection drops again :x 15:38:58 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 15:46:27 *** arikover has joined #openttd 16:03:56 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:35:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:36:08 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:08:50 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:29:20 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:01:43 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 18:02:03 <andythenorth_> o/ 18:02:39 <andythenorth_> So how about MoreEnginePhysics? o_O 18:03:27 <andythenorth_> Adjust effective hp depending on speed 18:03:51 <andythenorth_> NewGRF definition of speed-power curves 18:04:15 <andythenorth_> Leave it all at 1:1 as default 18:06:32 * andythenorth_ wonders how parametric functions work :p 18:06:52 <andythenorth_> also how to cache results :p 18:07:19 <frosch123> you already have maxte, power and maxspeed 18:07:28 <frosch123> aren't three parameters enough? 18:07:44 <frosch123> do you need b-spline control points? 18:08:04 <andythenorth_> Te is a bit misleading, in tests it’s irrelevant 18:08:26 <andythenorth_> Unless the train has not enough hp for the hill 18:08:49 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 18:09:20 <andythenorth_> i.e. TE only offers differentiation when the train is already going too slowly :) 18:10:07 <nielsm> andythenorth_: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7644#issuecomment-525256019 18:10:12 <nielsm> news on the macos slowdown front 18:10:43 <andythenorth_> the case is new Horse roster, frosch123 you helped me fix the lack of differentiation between freight and pax engines 18:11:06 <andythenorth_> But for new roster I want to do slow freight and faster freight 18:11:57 <andythenorth_> The current method is “slowest = highest power” 18:12:36 <andythenorth_> Which works and will probably work again 18:13:15 <nielsm> if non-perishable cargo types had even less drop-off in delivery payments from long transit time, lower maintenance cost on slow engines could work well 18:14:10 <andythenorth_> that’s a function of the industry set and could be arranged 18:14:32 <nielsm> hmm, how does input-stockpiles to industries work with acceptance stop and trains with too much cargo 18:14:51 <nielsm> will a train be able to stay in station and slowly unload while the industry works its stockpile? 18:14:51 <andythenorth_> Badly 18:14:59 <nielsm> so I guess not 18:15:03 <andythenorth_> Acceptance stop is generally unwise 18:15:35 <andythenorth_> IRL trains have peak and continuous hp 18:15:50 <andythenorth_> hmm, /me gtg :( 18:15:52 <nielsm> my thought was about industries rewarding consistent deliveries at a sufficient rate, and discouraging huge dumps followed by long waits for the next load 18:17:24 <frosch123> nielsm: do that via the output cargo 18:17:34 <frosch123> reward constant delivery with more output 18:17:51 <andythenorth_> Bbl 18:17:57 <frosch123> instead of punishing bad delivery 18:18:34 <nielsm> hmm yeah, maybe like: stockpile never dropped below X in the past Y months: bonus% 18:18:44 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:18:51 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:20:27 <nielsm> that's pretty much a cross-breeding of the FIRS and the SPI models 18:21:03 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 18:24:33 <TrueBrain> LordAro: what did you do to him :( 18:27:11 *** DorpsGek_II has quit IRC 18:27:28 <TrueBrain> no real error .. just kicked it to see if that helps :) 18:27:59 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 18:31:13 <TrueBrain> nope ... 18:32:46 <TrueBrain> "concurrent.futures._base.CancelledError" 18:32:48 <TrueBrain> rightttttttt 18:32:49 <TrueBrain> not helpful 18:32:57 <TrueBrain> seems GitHub messages are no longer understood or something .. 18:35:55 <TrueBrain> ah .. fetching .dorpgek.yml fails .. seems their API changed .. 18:36:06 <TrueBrain> well, that is not something to fix in 32C 18:42:49 <LordAro> TrueBrain: :< 18:59:33 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:59:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:59:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 19:23:15 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:50:39 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 20:01:29 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 20:01:44 <andythenorth_> o/ 20:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 1000 people died in the tornado 20:02:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling that would have been less if i didn't tell them to go to the shelter 20:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ... because they panicked and went everywhere but the shelter 20:02:55 <Eddi|zuHause> like 600 people piled up in the tram station that went away from the shelter 20:04:48 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 20:16:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 20:23:18 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 20:23:36 <andythenorth_> o/ 20:25:48 <andythenorth_> so I just use HP & speed for distinguishing different types of engine. :) 20:26:06 <andythenorth_> frosch123: no fancy extra physics? 20:30:33 <frosch123> i think i missed your point. what engine classes do you want to distinguish? 20:31:06 <andythenorth_> Slow freight and fast freight 20:31:30 <frosch123> or do you want the "show arbitrary png in purchase list"-feature to show fancy graphs? :p 20:32:00 <andythenorth_> IRL there are differences in construction between fast and slow freight engines 20:32:02 <frosch123> what is the benefit for slow freight? 20:32:11 <frosch123> faster acceleration? specific cargo types? 20:32:19 <andythenorth_> At game scale it’s probably irrelevant 20:33:03 <andythenorth_> being frank, this is mostly a way to deliberately mess up networks by introducing two freight speeds 20:33:25 <FLHerne> frosch123: In UKRS2, slow freight engines have dramatically more TE 20:33:41 <andythenorth_> Networks with a single speed are the easiest to manage :p 20:34:01 <frosch123> so, you wanto te to have a bigger impact? 20:34:09 <andythenorth_> Maybe? 20:34:26 <andythenorth_> Currently it’s ~irrelevant 20:34:38 <andythenorth_> I ran some tests a while ago 20:34:43 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:34:47 <frosch123> is high TE too weak, or is low TE too strong? 20:35:33 <andythenorth_> I don’t recall, but iirc the code shows TE only makes a difference in extreme cases 20:35:45 <andythenorth_> Otherwise HP always just wins 20:36:10 <andythenorth_> This is realistic & correct afaict for train physics 20:36:49 <frosch123> train acceleration mode: original, realistic, interesting ? 20:38:21 <LordAro> original, realistic, andy 20:38:22 <andythenorth_> :) 20:38:42 <andythenorth_> There are some realisms missing from the realistic model 20:38:51 <andythenorth_> Maybe not needed in a game 20:39:26 <andythenorth_> IRL gearing is a factor for both acceleration and sustained performance 20:39:53 <andythenorth_> Rotational speed of traction motors has to be within certain limits 20:40:32 <frosch123> so you want to distinguish engines with peak performance (fast start) vs continuous perforance (heavy load)? 20:40:40 <andythenorth_> Also sustained power through a motor - heat dissipation becomes an issue 20:41:04 <andythenorth_> For steam engines, ability of boiler to replenish used steam is an issue 20:41:16 <andythenorth_> And size of driving wheels 20:43:07 <frosch123> the vehicle gui needs a "nitro" button 20:43:24 <frosch123> 90% to make engine faster, 10% for immediate breakdown 20:43:29 <andythenorth_> But tbh in openttd, “is it yellow” is probably more important than realism 20:43:49 <andythenorth_> Transport Tycoon 2 has exactly that nitro switch :p 20:44:33 <frosch123> railroad tycoon? 20:44:46 <andythenorth_> Oops :) 20:44:49 <andythenorth_> Yes 20:45:02 <frosch123> only played 1 20:45:52 <andythenorth_> I guess I would like to explore having an engine that will go at constant 65mph on flat or up a hill, vs 100mph engine that hates hills 20:46:09 <andythenorth_> Probably tmwftlb 20:48:24 <frosch123> so give one engine 50k hp and max speed 65 :p 20:49:06 <andythenorth_> That does work 20:50:28 <andythenorth_> once again, no spec extension needed :D 20:50:34 <frosch123> anyway, i still wonder whether it makes sense for engine to consume stored power at hills, and recharge on flats 20:51:48 <frosch123> would mean that engines ignore small hills, but don't they do that anyway? 20:51:54 <andythenorth_> Accumulator... 20:52:14 <andythenorth_> inertia? 20:52:27 *** Progman has quit IRC 20:52:37 <andythenorth_> /me now lost in messy RL physics :p http://www.railway-technical.com/trains/steam-vs-diesel.html 20:52:37 <frosch123> i though about thermal capacity 20:53:11 <frosch123> less power in summer :p 20:53:43 <andythenorth_> Snowline? 20:53:53 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:53:58 <frosch123> more power above snowline? 20:54:00 <andythenorth_> Diesels are altitude dependent :p 20:54:13 <andythenorth_> Higher altitude = lower power 20:54:24 <andythenorth_> Turbocharging mitigates this :p 20:54:56 <andythenorth_> So many dimensions of performance we don’t account for :D 20:55:02 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:55:21 <milek7> maintenance costs should depend on fuel usage 20:55:26 <milek7> and it could be even negative temporaily, when electric loco drives down from hill and uses regenerative braking to return energy to grid :P 20:55:48 <frosch123> there was a swiss mining truck in the news 20:56:13 <frosch123> which drives stuff downhill, and empty uphill 20:56:37 <frosch123> they did not quite achieve to make it consume no energy 20:56:39 <andythenorth_> I’m sure someone has already tried to do negative run costs downhill in newgrf :p 21:04:34 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:07:09 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:07:14 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:08:15 *** DorpsGek_II has joined #openttd 21:08:30 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] uvealonso commented on pull request #7705: Fix #7704 avoiding MacOS crash when badformed UTF8 strings https://git.io/fjAx1 21:09:41 <frosch123> so it got back to life? 21:09:59 <LordAro> :> 21:11:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:13:53 <andythenorth_> http://www.railway-technical.com/trains/steam-vs-diesel.html 21:13:59 <andythenorth_> Hmm bad paste 21:14:11 <andythenorth_> http://evilgeniustech.com/idiotsGuideToRailroadPhysics/ 21:14:44 <andythenorth_> Oof braking power also :p 21:14:53 <andythenorth_> So much stuff 21:15:18 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:15:45 <frosch123> isn't that a wagon property? 21:16:16 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:17:19 <andythenorth_> It’s a thing I’m going to ignore :D 21:17:39 <andythenorth_> It’s quite complex, especially for US freight trains 21:17:56 <andythenorth_> Limited air capacity in the brakrvsystem 21:19:05 * andythenorth_ thinks the main gameplay thing is choosing “pointy train” or “blocky train” 21:19:37 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:24:49 <andythenorth_> Also bedtime 21:24:52 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 21:24:57 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:44:59 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:45:28 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:10:50 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 22:25:13 *** Etua has joined #openttd 22:26:16 *** Etua has quit IRC 22:26:31 *** dihedral has quit IRC 22:28:05 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 22:30:23 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:31:07 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:31:21 *** arikover has quit IRC 22:31:47 *** dihedral has joined #openttd 22:34:21 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:56:16 *** dihedral has quit IRC 23:03:33 *** dihedral has joined #openttd