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00:32:44 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:30:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z approved pull request #102: Add: 2 screenshots for 1.9 https://git.io/Je4En 01:31:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z commented on pull request #102: Add: 2 screenshots for 1.9 https://git.io/Je4EC 01:46:52 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 01:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably easier to rename the PR to the correct month :p 02:21:29 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:24:52 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:04:00 *** glx has quit IRC 03:24:39 *** lpx is now known as Guest5077 03:25:26 *** lpx has joined #openttd 03:26:32 *** Guest5077 has quit IRC 03:35:44 *** lpx is now known as Guest5079 03:36:00 *** lpx has joined #openttd 03:37:12 *** Guest5079 has quit IRC 03:58:39 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 04:14:33 *** Wormnest__ has joined #openttd 04:19:55 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 04:20:48 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 04:21:00 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 06:07:55 *** Smedles has quit IRC 06:24:47 *** arikover has joined #openttd 06:35:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 commented on issue #7773: Right-click Skip to Skip-backwards https://git.io/Je4Wq 06:51:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Mysteron347 commented on issue #7774: Notify button https://git.io/Je4Wi 06:55:07 *** Pikka has quit IRC 06:56:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Mysteron347 commented on issue #7773: Right-click Skip to Skip-backwards https://git.io/Je4Wq 06:59:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 commented on issue #7773: Right-click Skip to Skip-backwards https://git.io/Je4Wq 07:02:17 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 07:24:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:15:35 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:17:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:38:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Mysteron347 opened issue #7775: Omit button https://git.io/Je422 08:49:45 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:14:46 *** Smedles has quit IRC 09:15:58 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 09:24:53 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 09:38:13 *** Arveen has quit IRC 10:04:21 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Mysteron347 opened issue #7776: Go To Depot default https://git.io/Je4ab 10:05:46 <LordAro> should probably tell him we're not huge fans of suggestions on the bug tracker... 10:06:55 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 10:10:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:12:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #7773: Right-click Skip to Skip-backwards https://git.io/Je4Wq 10:14:30 <LordAro> "worn out three mouses this week already!" 10:14:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #7776: Go To Depot default https://git.io/Je4ab 10:16:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7773: Right-click Skip to Skip-backwards https://git.io/Je4Wq 10:16:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7773: Right-click Skip to Skip-backwards https://git.io/Je4Wq 10:18:34 <peter1138> If you have a category for suggestions you can easily ignore them :p 10:22:21 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 10:26:32 <LordAro> peter1138: but andythenorth will come along and close them anyway 10:28:40 <peter1138> :-) 10:32:30 <andythenorth> too true 10:32:43 <andythenorth> did anyone fix the October dev blog post yet? 10:33:51 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/website/pull/103 11:42:59 <LordAro> did you? 11:43:08 * LordAro hasn't even looked at it yet 12:30:01 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:30:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:31:39 <planetmaker> many comments by Xaroth it seems 12:47:12 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:54:42 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:34:12 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:34:32 *** Etua has joined #openttd 13:38:49 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:45:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:47:41 <andythenorth> yo 13:51:45 <nielsm> yoyoyoyo 13:53:30 <peter1138> Is it lunch? 13:53:35 <peter1138> I hope not cos I already ate mine. 13:53:56 <andythenorth> same 14:03:19 <peter1138> Maybe it's fifteenses? 14:03:35 <peter1138> I wonder if there's any stale old cakes left from last Friday. 14:04:00 <andythenorth> or oranges 14:04:06 <andythenorth> oranges are always valid 14:04:23 <peter1138> I have a satsuma, so yeah. 14:04:42 <andythenorth> citrus is nearly always valid 14:04:50 <peter1138> Nearly. 14:04:51 <andythenorth> although easting solitary limes is challenging 14:04:56 <andythenorth> eating * 14:05:18 <peter1138> Grapefruits tend to be quite big and so have quite a lot of sugar content. 14:06:02 <andythenorth> didn't consider grapefruit 14:06:04 <andythenorth> oops 14:06:20 <andythenorth> how do I get satsumas after brexit? 14:06:24 <andythenorth> they all come from Spain 14:08:59 <peter1138> You'll still get them from Spain. 14:09:29 <peter1138> They might end up costing more though. 14:09:43 <andythenorth> that's disappointingly undramatic 14:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> is brexit still happening? 14:09:58 <andythenorth> emoji 14:10:19 <andythenorth> someone fixed that dev blog post? 14:10:22 <andythenorth> I can't be bothered :P 14:10:29 <andythenorth> the review notes are longer than the post 14:10:37 <andythenorth> they're probably accurate, but eh 14:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a good thing, right? 14:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause> means people actually care :p 14:11:12 <andythenorth> dunno, we apparently want more posts 14:14:21 *** Etua has quit IRC 14:20:43 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:27:00 *** Wormnest__ has quit IRC 14:49:14 <Xaroth> andythenorth: yeah, I looked at your oct post :) 14:49:47 <andythenorth> can we just edit directly in PRs? :P 14:50:01 <Xaroth> I can't :P 14:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: for the website, that's how we usually did it. there's an edit button on github 14:56:40 *** tokai has quit IRC 14:57:40 *** tokai has joined #openttd 14:57:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 14:58:12 <andythenorth> oh so if we approve & merge, anyone can edit directly in the openttd repo? 14:58:15 <andythenorth> would be better 14:58:40 <andythenorth> I can't merge website stuff, as a CMD, it's quite laborious eh 14:58:43 <andythenorth> CMS * 15:01:54 <LordAro> andythenorth: i believe the general thought was that anyone who wants edit access can get edit access 15:01:58 <LordAro> but it does have to be manually added 15:02:40 <andythenorth> I can approve, but not merge afaict 15:02:58 <andythenorth> I am totally unclear who can merge, and I don't like bothering people to ask 15:03:09 <andythenorth> so it's quite a disincentive to actually doing anything 15:03:30 <LordAro> feel free to bother me about it 15:04:43 <andythenorth> ok 15:04:56 <andythenorth> can you merge that October dev post, so others can edit in place? 15:05:09 <andythenorth> round trip via my fork is daft, in hindsight 15:09:07 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd 15:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> andythenorth: i think there are more steps involved between merging and actually publishing, so it makes sense that that kind of work is restricted to fewer people 15:11:42 <andythenorth> afaik, it's just cutting a tag, and waiting to see if the magic magicked 15:14:16 <andythenorth> I'll see what Truebrain thinks next time he shows 15:14:38 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 15:20:43 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 15:24:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Je4Pq 15:24:15 <DorpsGek_III> - Add: 2 screenshots for 1.9 (by andythenorth) 15:24:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #102: Add: 2 screenshots for 1.9 https://git.io/Je489 15:24:29 <andythenorth> ta 15:24:53 <andythenorth> there are some great screenshots on reddit, if anyone wanted to ask the authors 15:25:01 <andythenorth> or I could crack and get a reddit account :P 15:26:58 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 15:27:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro opened pull request #104: Change: Don't push push notifications to IRC https://git.io/Je4PG 15:27:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #94: Monthly dev post for August 2019 https://git.io/Je4PZ 15:27:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro closed pull request #94: Monthly dev post for August 2019 https://git.io/fjXEu 15:28:10 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 15:28:18 <LordAro> oh i see 15:28:34 <LordAro> normally the monthly-dev-post branch is open to all, but andythenorth's PR is obviously on his fork, so... 15:28:45 <andythenorth> yeah I thought I was doing it right, but I was wrong 15:28:50 <LordAro> it was close 15:29:10 <andythenorth> my local fork has jekyll running, so it made it easy to test 15:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes right is wrong 15:38:05 <LordAro> sometimes wrong is right 15:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes wrong is wrong 15:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but almost never is right actually right 15:50:50 <peter1138> Sometimes it's nearly home time. 15:50:54 <andythenorth> spoken like a UI designer Eddi|zuHause :P 15:51:02 <andythenorth> nothing is ever right, it's just progressively less wrong 15:51:16 <andythenorth> UI tends to this horrible mediocrity of 'least worst' 15:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and sometimes it's fractally wrong 15:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's wrong all the way down 15:51:30 <andythenorth> peter1138: home time! 15:51:41 <peter1138> 9 minutes. Should I have a quick "pick me up" before I go? 15:52:11 <andythenorth> is it brandy? 15:54:49 <andythenorth> do I play OpenTTD wrong? :P 15:54:56 <andythenorth> I don't build nice cities like this https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=207361 15:54:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 15:55:29 <peter1138> Nah, I don't have brandy laying about the office. 15:55:35 <peter1138> Biscoff biscuit. 15:57:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Mysteron347 opened issue #7777: Conditional orders https://git.io/Je4Py 15:57:38 <andythenorth> this one should be included https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/dfw9ay/bustling_steel_mill_and_goods_terminal_in_the/ 16:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> why do i still do this? https://www.twitch.tv/eddijk 16:19:33 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd 16:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> also, why does my internet disappear the moment i go online? :p 16:20:51 <andythenorth> heisen-something 16:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> and OBS doesn't seem to want to stop the stream 16:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> should be running again now 16:24:13 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 16:24:16 *** cHawk has quit IRC 16:24:40 <nielsm> that's a boring ticket #7777 16:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> what a waste of a schnapszahl 16:26:08 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 16:26:11 <andythenorth> why are conditional orders? 16:26:17 * andythenorth wonders about a patchpack 16:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> conditional orders are a feature solely to confuse cargodist 16:30:32 <andythenorth> what problem are they solving? 16:30:55 * andythenorth declares an empathy problem for some features :P 16:41:05 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 16:41:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 16:47:51 *** tokai has quit IRC 16:55:16 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 16:59:19 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:23:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:34:07 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:37:55 <andythenorth> so which is wrong? 17:37:57 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/README.md#30-supported-platforms 17:38:04 <andythenorth> https://www.openttd.org/about.html 17:38:56 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Readme.txt 17:39:13 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/System_Requirements 17:39:15 <nielsm> the readme is more correct and less precise 17:39:20 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Operating_system 17:41:12 * andythenorth lolz at running OpenTTD on old macs 17:41:44 <andythenorth> the minimum spec given for Mac is the first Mac I owned 17:42:33 <frosch123> all info is correct for *some* version of ottd :) 17:43:35 * andythenorth fixes a few wiki pages 17:44:11 <nielsm> I'd say that windows earlier than XP are definitely no longer supported as of 1.9 17:44:33 <nielsm> and XP is not officially supported either 17:45:10 <nielsm> (XP is in the "if it works it's unintentional" category) 17:45:31 <nielsm> macos, I have no idea about :D 17:45:37 <nielsm> 10.8 or something? 17:45:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Je4Mn 17:45:50 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:48:27 <andythenorth> n-2 17:48:34 <andythenorth> same as Apple 17:49:51 <andythenorth> I would like to burn the About page on the website with fire 17:50:40 <frosch123> it has been copy&pasted into dozen of game reviews 17:51:05 <frosch123> if you find that list in a review, you can directly conclude on the quality of the text 17:54:19 <frosch123> maybe all headers on the homepage should redirect to a google search about it 17:54:32 <frosch123> "about" -> lgtfy "what is openttd about" 17:54:35 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:54:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:54:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] andythenorth opened pull request #105: Drop supported operating systems list from 'About' https://git.io/Je4M4 17:56:09 <glx> andythenorth: you included the screenshots 17:56:19 <andythenorth> oh FFS :) 17:56:20 <andythenorth> I will fix 17:56:24 <glx> rebase and force push 17:56:29 <andythenorth> yes 17:56:42 <andythenorth> I forget that I have to drop commits from a branch 17:56:49 <andythenorth> so workflow 17:57:14 <glx> no you don't have to, you just need to branch from the right place :) 17:57:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] andythenorth updated pull request #105: Drop supported operating systems list from 'About' https://git.io/Je4M4 17:57:39 <andythenorth> this is so inverse to the workflow we have at work :| 17:57:46 <glx> if you branch from a branch they will have the same base 17:57:55 <andythenorth> maintaining two different habits in one tool is brainache 17:58:11 <andythenorth> anyway, fixed 17:59:40 <glx> for my action testing I just branched from master to create the first version, then branched from the branch to clone and modify and get a second version 18:01:01 <andythenorth> I am just going to make feature branches only for website 18:01:11 <andythenorth> the problem comes when my master diverges from upstream 18:10:02 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:17:01 <andythenorth> TB thought the README.md should be restructured to move the developer stuff into docs/README.md 18:17:04 * andythenorth looks at that 18:17:18 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 18:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not fond of the idea to hide information in so many layers 18:18:03 <andythenorth> I wondered 18:18:04 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/README.md 18:18:13 <frosch123> there also could be a CONTRIBUTORS.md 18:18:15 <andythenorth> my worry is that it's not maintainted 18:18:28 <andythenorth> there's https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md 18:18:31 <frosch123> and some script to parse a known commit history to extract all the patchers 18:19:28 <nielsm> README, COMPILING, CONTRIBUTING 18:19:35 <nielsm> and perhaps some more 18:19:40 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pse7a5gpi/gpqqsh/raw 18:21:46 <andythenorth> couple of these look aged? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/tree/master/docs 18:23:07 <andythenorth> maybe just the OS/2 one :D 18:23:52 <andythenorth> when does changelog in master get backported? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/changelog.txt 18:24:03 <andythenorth> 1.9.1 and friends are missing :) 18:24:14 <nielsm> when someone does it 18:24:17 <frosch123> before 1.10 18:24:25 <nielsm> there is an open PR to forward port the changelog 18:24:31 <frosch123> i think it's even in the 1.10-beta pr 18:24:47 <nielsm> it is 18:24:52 <andythenorth> should all .txt files be .md, or is that pointless change? 18:24:58 * andythenorth not looking for work, just a tidy house 18:25:09 <nielsm> nah 18:27:12 <andythenorth> eh README is pretty good, no? Just the compiling section needs split out? 18:27:17 <andythenorth> rest seems fine, for now 18:27:53 <andythenorth> the team list is aging 18:34:53 <LordAro> it probably does need a bit of an update 18:46:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 18:47:10 *** supermop_elsewhere has joined #openttd 18:50:34 <glx> hmm I fear a conflict in cmake branch 18:51:19 <peter1138> Merge it anyway 18:51:35 <glx> better wait for 1.10 branching I think 18:54:08 <andythenorth> I want to write words for legacy support somewhere 18:54:18 <andythenorth> I think last time we talked it was something like: 18:54:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DQ 18:55:02 <andythenorth> "we'll keep support going on old platforms as long as someone is interested, except if it means the project can't move forward with language and compiler features" 18:55:22 <andythenorth> TL;DR "We'll do our best, except where it becomes impractical" 18:55:32 <LordAro> sounds good 18:55:43 <andythenorth> and Apple users get n-2 18:55:52 <andythenorth> and should accept that they bought an Apple ideology 18:56:02 <LordAro> "anything that's still supported by its vendor" 18:56:14 <LordAro> "unless it's RHEL" 18:56:46 <glx> andythenorth: the commit prefix should be Doc: not Docs: 18:56:58 <andythenorth> oops 18:57:11 * andythenorth wonders if CONTRIBUTING links to README for compiling also 18:57:12 <andythenorth> hmm 18:57:37 <glx> (and I hate having to navigate really deep just to see the output of commit checker) 18:58:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 18:59:05 <LordAro> something something GH Actions 18:59:05 <andythenorth> how I used git for so long without learning rebase -i :P 18:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're not using rebase, might as well use hg :p 18:59:41 <LordAro> or svn 18:59:59 <glx> I love rebase -i, you can even duplicate commits to split them 19:00:23 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't there a different tool to split commits? 19:00:44 <frosch123> mercurial queues :p 19:00:46 <andythenorth> sometimes I'm tempted to use rebase -i at work to hide my mistakes :P 19:00:49 <andythenorth> but force push is banned 19:01:25 <glx> do it in a branch 19:01:27 <LordAro> it's fine as long as it's not been pushed anywhere 19:01:43 <LordAro> it's a bit silly if force push is banned globally 19:02:08 * andythenorth wonders how to do a relative link from README.md to COMPILING.md :P 19:02:09 <glx> I can understand force push ban on master 19:02:31 <LordAro> yeah 19:03:01 <LordAro> andythenorth: [./COMPILING.md](foobar) i think? 19:03:01 <andythenorth> nielsm: honestly I might leave a compiling link out of README, can't see a good place for it 19:03:05 <glx> and of course not force pushing on something you know you're not the only one concerned 19:03:17 <glx> unless you ask before 19:03:35 <andythenorth> we have asynchronous collaboration on the same branch 19:03:40 <andythenorth> and email is deprecated 19:03:47 <andythenorth> and we have remote workers :P 19:03:54 <LordAro> yeah, use your own branch then :p 19:03:56 <andythenorth> so post-its on monitors also don't solve that 19:04:09 <LordAro> (or before pushing) 19:04:13 <nielsm> andythenorth: just add two lines in the About section, one referencing the Compiling file and one referencing Contributing 19:05:05 <andythenorth> ha ha 19:05:07 <andythenorth> check the README 19:05:17 <andythenorth> where does it say you can get binaries from? :) 19:05:38 <LordAro> should be somewhere :p 19:05:52 <andythenorth> $somewhere 19:06:19 <andythenorth> I'll make about 3 sections 19:06:28 <andythenorth> 1.1 Download 1.2 Compiling 1.3 Contributing 19:06:55 <andythenorth> why is Contact and Reporting Desyncs higher priority than Installing? 19:07:03 <andythenorth> not exactly confidence inspiring :P 19:07:14 <andythenorth> let's make this better 19:15:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 19:15:52 *** Etua has joined #openttd 19:16:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 19:17:01 <andythenorth> ^ fixed 19:17:09 <andythenorth> nielsm or LordAro could you check and approve that? 19:17:28 <andythenorth> I want to restructure the readme quite a lot, but in a different PR for separation of concerns 19:19:04 <LordAro> andythenorth: i'd probably get rid of the contents table from COMPILING, tbh 19:19:35 <nielsm> make the FSF folks happy and make one section for GNU/Linux, and another for FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris, other unices 19:19:45 <nielsm> and put them in that order 19:19:53 <LordAro> heh 19:20:05 <andythenorth> what is Haiku even? :P 19:20:17 <nielsm> but don't put "unix" with "linux" 19:20:25 <andythenorth> oof 19:20:32 <nielsm> strictly, *BSD systems are unix, while GNU's Not Unix 19:21:01 <andythenorth> ToC definitely redundant? 19:21:05 <nielsm> yeah 19:21:09 <andythenorth> I was 50:50 on it, page isn't big 19:21:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 19:22:00 <andythenorth> hmm needs more edit 19:22:31 *** Etua is now known as Guest5141 19:22:34 *** Etua has joined #openttd 19:22:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 19:23:05 <andythenorth> that's better 19:23:14 <nielsm> "Run ./configure to prepare the build system. Run ./configure --help to see the available options." \n "After configuring, run make (or gmake if your default make is not GNU compatible) to build, run make install to install the the configured location. 19:23:18 <glx> Haiku is the new BeOS 19:23:37 <andythenorth> I'm happy to let other folks edit specific platform stuff 19:23:49 <andythenorth> I'd rather spend time on README 19:24:14 <andythenorth> not sure if this is still useful? :) https://github.com/andythenorth/OpenTTD/blob/master/docs/Readme_OS2.txt 19:24:41 <nielsm> these can be downloaded from the Files section at http://sourceforge.net/projects/openttd/ 19:24:43 <nielsm> wow 19:24:51 <LordAro> haha 19:25:17 <LordAro> yeah, i think that can go 19:27:40 *** Guest5141 has quit IRC 19:29:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened pull request #7779: Doc: drop Readme_OS2, it has aged, let it go gracefully https://git.io/Je4yg 19:29:43 <andythenorth> should this just be in COMPILING.md? https://github.com/andythenorth/OpenTTD/blob/split-out-compiling-instructions/docs/Readme_Windows_MSVC.md 19:30:13 <LordAro> bits and pieces could probably go in there, yeah 19:30:20 <LordAro> or maybe it should just be on the wiki 19:30:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7779: Doc: drop Readme_OS2, it has aged, let it go gracefully https://git.io/Je4yw 19:32:51 <andythenorth> well 1 section at a time: Supported Compilers is a dupe with COMPILING.md 19:32:53 <glx> maybe just merge MSVC.md in COMPILING.md 19:33:08 <glx> would make sense 19:33:32 <andythenorth> +1 19:33:34 <glx> it was like that to not overload README I think 19:33:54 <andythenorth> yes 19:33:57 <andythenorth> totally made sense 19:35:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7771: Add: UDP query of game script https://git.io/Je4y6 19:36:24 <andythenorth> there are some useful wiki pages for compiling, I'm linking them 19:38:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 19:39:14 <glx> andythenorth: you changed to Docs again ;) 19:39:35 <andythenorth> ha ha 19:39:51 <andythenorth> I am doing commit --amend, oops 19:40:04 <andythenorth> using up-cursor in shell :P 19:40:25 <glx> commit --amend doesn't change the commit message 19:40:41 <andythenorth> it does if I remember to amend it? 19:40:50 <andythenorth> instead of reusing the old one 19:40:51 <glx> it does if you edit the file yes 19:41:02 <andythenorth> this url does not work in GH markdown https://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_(GNU/)Linux_and_*BSD 19:41:06 <andythenorth> the brackets fuck it 19:41:07 <glx> for me it opens an editor 19:41:26 <LordAro> heh 19:41:38 <glx> there should be a %something for that 19:41:52 <andythenorth> I'll used this page instead, life is short https://wiki.openttd.org/Category:Compiling_OpenTTD 19:41:54 <LordAro> https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/13501/links-to-urls-containing-parentheses 19:42:02 <glx> and my previous remark was about --amend 19:42:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Docs: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 19:45:06 <andythenorth> ok I am hoping that's good to go? 19:45:46 <andythenorth> I'd like to consolidate docs/Readme_Windows_MSVC.md separately 19:46:20 <LordAro> i wouldn't mind that being in the same PR 19:47:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7779: Doc: drop Readme_OS2, it has aged, let it go gracefully https://git.io/Je4yg 19:47:33 <milek7> https://i.imgur.com/FlFfLe2.png 19:48:08 <LordAro> milek7: ...Haiku? 19:48:59 <milek7> yes 19:49:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4Se 19:49:38 <Wolf01> Nice, it looks like OTTD running on OTTD :D 19:50:01 <LordAro> milek7: nice 19:54:52 <andythenorth> I did wonder 19:55:01 <andythenorth> cos *BSD is Unix afaik 19:56:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 19:56:24 <andythenorth> ok I'll consolidate the windows doc next 19:56:49 *** flyingghoti has joined #openttd 19:57:31 <flyingghoti> Hello, everyone! I'm part of a group that's just launched a new 19:58:11 <flyingghoti> ...city-builder open-source project called Charm Cities, and I thought there might be people here interested in comparing notes and experiences. http://charmcities.net/ 20:00:49 <flyingghoti> We're trying to create a new type of city-builder game that really advances the genre by including a complete sociopolitical model that includes topics like race, disability, gender, and religion. If that's the sort of thing you find interesting, or if there are things you've learned on OpenTTD that you think it would be helpful for us to know, or if there might be assets or code you've already built that you think might h 20:02:07 * andythenorth reads 20:02:17 <flyingghoti> You can reach us at info@charmcities.net, or stop by our Discord at https://discord.gg/zquC4fg - that's where most of the talking happens right now. Our GitHub repo is at https://github.com/charmcities/charmcities but we're still in the early planning stages. 20:02:18 <andythenorth> without being cynical, sounds like griefer paradise :) 20:02:55 <andythenorth> it's perfect 4chan fodder 20:04:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i just saw a game on steam: "social justice warrior" :p 20:05:13 *** arikover has quit IRC 20:05:13 <flyingghoti> Oh, sure, that's definitely a concern. But I don't want to not make something cool because the worst people in the world might be mad that it exists. At some point, all you can really do is put 2FA on all your accounts and go for it. 20:08:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:09:01 <nielsm> best of luck, if you manage to make a belivable simulation with all those elements that isn't full of glitches you'll probably have solved problems considered impossible in mathematics, physics, and computer science along the way 20:09:09 <nielsm> not to speak of social sciences 20:09:20 <andythenorth> it's worth trying 20:10:14 <nielsm> random technical advice: think modding first, design the core structure around having everything in the game run on the same rules/pluggable architecture 20:10:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:10:33 <nielsm> unless you decide that mod support is off-limits and design the game to explicitly not be moddable 20:10:49 <andythenorth> I really don't know if I've ballsed up the Windows instructions https://github.com/andythenorth/OpenTTD/blob/split-out-compiling-instructions/COMPILING.md 20:10:53 <andythenorth> not my field :( 20:12:01 <flyingghoti> Thanks, nielsm, I had the vague suspicion that would be a good plan but it's really helpful to hear it confirmed. 20:13:01 <nielsm> one of the annoying things in openttd is that it's built as a core game with built in defaults, and then mods are created as "take original item X and modify these properties" 20:13:19 <nielsm> and there is no such thing as starting a mod from a blank slate, you can only do it based off existing objects 20:14:15 <nielsm> this is due to legacy, inheriting the modding technology from ttdpatch that's an unofficial binary patch for transport tycoon deluxe, a 25 years old game 20:14:33 <flyingghoti> Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 20:15:18 <nielsm> and of course there's no way to change that now without breaking the thousands of things created already, it all has to stay compatible with all new development 20:16:17 <andythenorth> oh fuck git sometimes :( 20:16:28 <andythenorth> rebase upstream/master onto my master gets me a merge commit 20:16:29 <andythenorth> why? 20:16:40 <nielsm> having a strong mods-first policy also forces some strong separation of concerns on the program code and can to some extent avoid spaghetti 20:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well, we could break all existing mods, but i doubt the community would recover from that :p 20:17:33 <andythenorth> rebase -i seems to cover all sins :P 20:17:55 <LordAro> i mean, we could do "NewGRFv2" (yes i know the current version is 9, shut up), but there's no way we could ever get rid of "v1" 20:17:56 <nielsm> the disadvantage of that kind of arhitecture is that the decoupling most likely means worse performance than if everything was tightly integrated, and the development path to get to a good place is longer since you need much more framework built before you have things "working" 20:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause> don't worry, there'll be new sins where those came from :p 20:19:48 <nielsm> flyingghoti: another thing to know about openttd's architecture, which may not be relevant to you, is that the game is designed to be 100% deterministic, if two players load the same save file in the same revision of openttd, and let it run without interaction (and no AIs or Game Script either), the two will produce exactly the same result 20:19:55 <andythenorth> I really think that the modding framework in OpenTTD is fine 20:20:06 <nielsm> that's the foundation of the multiplayer support in openttd, that every client executes exactly the same simulation 20:20:07 <andythenorth> it's just that we fell in a cognitive hole with GS 20:20:29 <nielsm> it's possible to do multiplayer in other ways, but this is the way ottd handles it 20:21:24 <nielsm> andythenorth: well it would be cool if we could somehow define even the base vehicle set in a GRF 20:21:45 <andythenorth> well I have often wondered about that 20:21:45 <flyingghoti> That is interesting, yeah - we've discussed multiplayer a bit but we haven't come to a decision on how important it is to us yet. If we decide to leave it out of our minimum viable product we should still think about questions like that so it's not impossible to implement later. 20:21:59 <andythenorth> my assumption nielsm is that a bunch of .h files or similar can then be dropped :P 20:22:11 <andythenorth> and we could...you know...extende the base vehicles with cargo classes :P 20:22:29 <andythenorth> thereby avoiding one of the common newgrf elephant traps 20:22:31 <Eddi|zuHause> flyingghoti: if you think multiplayer isn't a focus early on, you'll probably never have multiplayer, ever. 20:22:58 <nielsm> yes multiplayer is also one of those things you have to design for from the ground up 20:23:21 <nielsm> it will permeate the entire code base 20:23:37 <nielsm> ...depending on the architecture 20:24:16 <andythenorth> anyone got comments on that Windows compiling info? 20:24:24 <nielsm> and all of these things are also covered by my favourite game engine of all time, the Quake 1 engine 20:24:28 <andythenorth> I can only maintain interest in something like that for a limited period :P 20:24:36 * andythenorth attention span issues 20:24:51 <nielsm> it's mods-first, and even singleplayer games are internally handled as client-server 20:24:54 <andythenorth> Quak 1: the reason you bought a Pentium 20:24:55 <LordAro> probably needs nielsm to review 20:25:15 <andythenorth> nielsm: have you read the Carmack / Romero book? 20:25:16 <andythenorth> it's good 20:25:26 <nielsm> I'm not typing clearly atm, have to retype sentences a lot :) 20:25:29 <nielsm> should sleep 20:25:29 <andythenorth> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000FBFNL0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 20:25:38 <andythenorth> I never type clearly it seems 20:25:41 <nielsm> no but I probably should 20:25:52 <andythenorth> real focus on authoring tools, very early on 20:25:54 <frosch123> andythenorth: i never bought a pentium 20:25:54 <andythenorth> super important 20:26:02 <andythenorth> you got given one? :P 20:26:23 <frosch123> i used k6 and k6 II around that time 20:26:38 <nielsm> I played quake on a pentium 75 mhz and it was barely good enough 20:26:51 <dwfreed> there's probably still a pentium pro 200 MHz at my parents' place 20:26:54 <glx> AI and gamescript addition was "cleaner" 20:27:10 <andythenorth> yeah, my friend had a PC and upgraded from 486-66 to Pentium 75 or 90, and Quake just about got playable FPS 20:27:21 <andythenorth> 'when computers had turbo buttons' 20:27:29 <flyingghoti> I'm wrapping up my work day and I don't want to keep you from the exciting work of sorting out Windows compiling, so I'm going to head out now, but thank you for the thoughts! This was really useful, and I might come back some time. If you're interested in following what we're getting up to, check out the website! 20:27:40 <andythenorth> good luck 20:27:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i upgraded from a 386 to a K6-III or so 20:27:51 <frosch123> LordAro: btw. the solution to remove newgrf is to go the pentium route. jit them into the new format 20:27:56 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: that's a massive jump 20:28:17 <LordAro> frosch123: mm, possible 20:28:32 <andythenorth> oof 20:28:33 <nielsm> implement a newgrf VM in whatever new language of choice 20:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: don't remember, about 10 times the speed? 20:28:37 *** flyingghoti has quit IRC 20:28:53 <LordAro> nielsm: for loops in yaml! 20:28:54 <andythenorth> err because the website is now quite burocratic 20:29:06 <andythenorth> do I do one screenshot at a time, and wait weeks to assemble a batch? 20:29:11 <andythenorth> or just do a PR as I get them 20:29:12 <andythenorth> ?? 20:29:12 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause, maybe measured in mhz, probably more like 30x actual execution speed 20:29:41 <LordAro> andythenorth: no harm in waiting a bit longer, imo 20:29:49 <dwfreed> dem IPC gainz 20:29:53 <nielsm> andythenorth: live website is only updated when a release tag is made 20:29:59 <andythenorth> a PR for one screenshot seems overkill 20:30:02 <andythenorth> but I only have one 20:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: afair it didn't survive very long, some capacitor on the mainboard exploded, and i had to get a new one 20:30:55 <andythenorth> can we ditch any of this to the wiki? https://github.com/andythenorth/OpenTTD/blob/split-out-compiling-instructions/COMPILING.md 20:31:09 <LordAro> andythenorth: i'd be more inclined to merge a screenshot PR if it contained 1.5-8 title games :p 20:31:13 <andythenorth> only Windows seems to need all that stuff, the other platforms are a couple of lines 20:31:48 <LordAro> andythenorth: i would prefer it if the links were more specific 20:31:56 <LordAro> the stackexchange link above should help 20:32:15 <LordAro> alternatively %28 & %29 20:32:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: usually you want to ditch the wiki into docs :p 20:32:24 <andythenorth> owned 20:32:59 <LordAro> andythenorth: "To get them use [vcpkg](githublink)..." 20:33:15 <LordAro> also it still refers to the doc you just removed :p 20:33:44 <LordAro> in fact, that whole section is out of order 20:33:52 <LordAro> SDK -> Dependencies -> Build 20:33:57 <LordAro> i thnk 20:35:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:36:02 *** Etua has quit IRC 20:36:24 *** Etua has joined #openttd 20:37:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:37:38 <andythenorth> isn't the deps stuff duplicated now? 20:37:40 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/OpenTTD/blob/split-out-compiling-instructions/COMPILING.md 20:38:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:39:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:39:35 <andythenorth> "To get them just use vcpkg using x86-windows-static and x64-windows-static triplets)." 20:39:51 <andythenorth> "To install both the x64 (64bit) and x86 (32bit) variants, you can use: [instructions for vcpkg]" 20:39:57 <andythenorth> seems to overlap? 20:40:18 <LordAro> mm 20:41:02 <andythenorth> 'additonal' typo repeated multiple times also 20:41:04 <andythenorth> lol 20:41:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:42:06 <andythenorth> in the compiling doc, surely required libraries comes before instructions? 20:43:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:44:54 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:47:12 <glx> https://github.com/glx22/OpenTTD-git-hooks/pull/2/checks <-- finally got a nice output 20:48:12 <LordAro> nice 20:48:18 <nielsm> ship it 20:48:46 <glx> I need to add some safety stuff, like checking it's not a windows VM :) 20:49:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:49:29 <andythenorth> ^ I think that might be done, barring fuckups :) 20:49:38 <andythenorth> if anyone fancies clicking some green buttons in GH :P 20:50:06 <LordAro> andythenorth: libicu is is Linux only nowadays 20:50:11 <glx> https://github.com/glx22/OpenTTD-git-hooks/pull/1/checks <-- docker version is not as good 20:50:26 <LordAro> and... so is libfreetype? or am i misremembering? 20:50:42 <glx> freetype is droped on windows yes 20:50:53 <andythenorth> and others? 20:51:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:51:22 <glx> still included in compile farm for 1.9 windows builds 20:51:48 <andythenorth> I've noted libicu 20:51:55 <andythenorth> if someone wants to review deps formally, they can :) 20:52:04 <andythenorth> this was just about cleaning up README :P 20:52:19 <andythenorth> like topsy, it has growed 20:52:24 <andythenorth> what even is topsy? :P 20:53:22 <andythenorth> google knew 20:53:25 <LordAro> andythenorth: "or more recent" -> "or newer" 20:53:34 <LordAro> i should probably review this properly on GH 20:53:49 <andythenorth> pls 20:53:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je4DK 20:54:41 * andythenorth must to bed, you could just fork it and make in-place edits 20:55:00 <andythenorth> reviewing .md docs via GH seems like double handling to me 20:55:11 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:55:13 <andythenorth> at work we just trade commits, or use etherpad 20:55:20 <andythenorth> or even...google docs :P 20:55:22 <LordAro> can't make it too easy for you :p 20:55:57 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:56:22 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:57:06 <andythenorth> I love that the major feature in the readme is 5.1) Logging of potentially dangerous actions 20:57:09 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/OpenTTD/tree/split-out-compiling-instructions#51-logging-of-potentially-dangerous-actions 20:58:24 <andythenorth> :D 21:04:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir… https://git.io/Je49E 21:07:16 <LordAro> andythenorth: major feature? 21:08:22 <andythenorth> it's the main topic under OpenTTD features 21:08:42 <andythenorth> I shall fix that...once I can restructure README safely :) 21:08:48 <LordAro> oh i see 21:08:51 <LordAro> :) 21:09:03 <andythenorth> the README is quite lolz, looked at with fresh eyes 21:09:06 <andythenorth> but very fixable 21:16:35 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:17:17 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:18:52 <andythenorth> is it bedtime? :P 21:23:28 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:08:44 *** supermop_elsewhere has quit IRC 22:24:03 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 22:25:42 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:32:04 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:39:31 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 22:48:43 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:48:58 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:57:56 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:03:51 *** Etua has quit IRC 23:04:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:29:21 *** Etua has joined #openttd 23:31:10 *** Etua has quit IRC 23:41:34 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 23:48:05 *** supermop_elsewhere has joined #openttd