Log for #openttd on 9th November 2019:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:03:06  *** Wormnest__ has joined #openttd
00:54:21  *** Wormnest__ has quit IRC
01:30:36  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
02:02:28  *** gelignite has quit IRC
02:14:44  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
03:07:58  *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd
03:18:56  *** glx has quit IRC
03:45:39  *** D-HUND has joined #openttd
03:49:02  *** debdog has quit IRC
04:25:35  *** RedAero has quit IRC
05:22:10  *** Smedles has quit IRC
05:23:25  *** Smedles has joined #openttd
06:55:49  *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
07:36:21  *** Smedles has quit IRC
07:45:28  *** Smedles has joined #openttd
08:14:37  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:18:56  *** Smedles has quit IRC
08:23:44  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:24:48  *** Smedles has joined #openttd
08:53:36  *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:18:25  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
09:50:31  <TrueBrain> why oh why does it seems impossible for me to contact a cloud provider ... none of their sales ever replied to me ..
09:50:55  <TrueBrain> this seems to be an endless loop of being ignored .. I wonder if it is personal
09:51:22  <andythenorth> commodity business innit
09:51:41  <andythenorth> I have a famiily member at rackspace
09:52:10  <TrueBrain> take 2 weeks ago, I called Azure Sales .. they promised a reply within 3 to 5 days .. that was 10 days ago
09:52:21  <TrueBrain> like .. what ... like .. you don't care? what is going on there
09:52:31  <andythenorth> I'm told that Rackspace focus on m+ accounts, and try not to get involved with commodity cloud
09:52:38  <andythenorth> not sure about the bigger providers
09:52:49  <andythenorth> the downside of cheap is no service :P
09:52:58  <TrueBrain> yeah ... I am pretty sure a sales person doesn't want to talk to a ~1000 euro a year person
09:53:02  <TrueBrain> waste of their time
09:53:12  <TrueBrain> but the company should force that, as it is really bad for your company if you don't reply at all
09:53:24  <andythenorth> _1
09:53:25  <andythenorth> +1
09:53:43  <TrueBrain> as that basically means I want  nothing to do with you, as a cloud provider :P
09:53:50  <andythenorth> well if you're bored, there's always the README :P
09:54:02  <TrueBrain> bored is currently not the state of mind :)
09:54:22  <andythenorth> hungover is mine
09:54:26  <TrueBrain> but I do have a migration that should be done before the end of the year tbfh, and DigitalOcean can't do what we are used to do :P
09:54:38  <TrueBrain> I also need to find a way to have better mail hosting tbh
09:54:45  <TrueBrain> as the spam is really really annoying
09:54:51  <andythenorth> do we need mail? :P
09:55:02  <TrueBrain> at least 1 mailbox for info@, yes
09:55:16  <TrueBrain> I wonder if I can use Exchange Online Plan 1 for that, and just forward all the other addresses
09:55:38  * andythenorth is so out of the loop on email
09:55:45  <TrueBrain> same ..
09:55:49  <TrueBrain> I just know it is expensive as fuck
09:55:56  <TrueBrain> would cost 60 euro a month to host an email for all devs :P
09:57:21  <andythenorth> ouch
10:16:20  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
10:16:26  <TrueBrain> <- might be a nice to use this instead of our current Donate page?
10:19:26  <andythenorth> planetmaker: did you have access to coop donations?
10:19:46  <andythenorth> I thought I had a recurring paypal for sponsoring coop, but no record in paypal :P
10:23:55  <TrueBrain> glx is going to like this: GitHub Actions now support caching :)
10:27:05  *** Samu has joined #openttd
11:15:18  *** supermop_Home has quit IRC
11:34:20  *** arikover has joined #openttd
11:56:14  *** Progman has quit IRC
11:59:31  *** bradw has joined #openttd
12:02:49  *** bradw has left #openttd
12:20:31  <andythenorth> quiet eh?
12:21:29  <TrueBrain> I blame LordAro
12:22:14  <LordAro> i'm making lunch
12:22:40  <TrueBrain> make me some too plz
12:23:41  <TrueBrain> I wonder when my Google Stadia ships ..
12:23:52  <TrueBrain> they are not really communicating about that
12:24:30  <TrueBrain> I have to read in the news about launchdates etc
12:25:52  <TrueBrain> order says it should be here before the 25th .. we shall see :)
12:28:20  <milek7> google gamepad?
12:38:23  *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
12:40:46  *** JacobD88 has quit IRC
12:48:04  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
12:50:50  <andythenorth> I broke all my newgrfs :)
12:51:00  <andythenorth> and until some PRs move, I'm not writing any more docs :P
12:51:31  <andythenorth> if anyone enjoys 'git describe', I could unbreak my newgrfs with help :P
12:58:32  <frosch123> <- i learnt this week about this one
12:59:07  <frosch123> is the ottd foundation thingie still a thing?
13:02:24  <TrueBrain> the diversity in their team is not very high :P
13:03:45  <TrueBrain> mostly we need a legal entity to battle stores .. like getting on Steam, booting people from Microsoft Store that ask money for this free product, etc :P Not sure they can help with that .. their site is not really .. clear what they do :D
13:04:37  <frosch123> isn't that covered by "asset stewardship"?
13:04:57  <TrueBrain> possibly; like I said, they are not really clear in what they do :D
13:05:02  <TrueBrain> just some vague words
13:05:12  <frosch123> anyway, are we serious enough to ask them?
13:05:37  <TrueBrain> "We are ready for your project if you need help with grants and contracts."
13:05:51  <frosch123> i learned about them from a lightning talk from cccamp, so not much more info there :)
13:06:50  <TrueBrain> I simply can't find enough information to know what it is they really do :)
13:08:03  <TrueBrain> but yeah, ask everyone how we should setup a legal entity of some sorts to both cover our ass, don't tie it to a single individual, and can still do stuff with like Steam, etc.
13:08:53  <TrueBrain> btw, today I asked AWS in their open source activation promotional credits, if we can have some, to seriously look into AWS
13:09:06  <frosch123> <- that's the 5 minute talk
13:09:35  <frosch123> hmm, bbbl
13:15:05  <TrueBrain> so they are the legal entity, on which you can piggyback, so to say
13:15:08  <TrueBrain> not sure that would help in our case
13:15:15  <TrueBrain> but droppnig them an email to ask, never hurts I guess?
13:26:08  *** Flygon has quit IRC
13:39:33  *** Progman has joined #openttd
15:16:33  <andythenorth> how dangerous are shell commands? :P
15:16:52  <TrueBrain> curl .. | sudo bash -
15:16:54  <TrueBrain> nothing wrong with that
15:17:06  *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd
15:17:21  <andythenorth> I need the equivalent results of this, but for git not hg
15:17:28  <andythenorth> I understand 60% of Alberth's code
15:17:44  <andythenorth> I could just write my own git version from scratch, but I worry I do danger
15:17:44  <TrueBrain> holy crap, what does that do?! :o
15:17:58  <andythenorth> and if I port the hg to git with no clue, I could just leave danger or broken
15:18:12  <andythenorth> it gets some rev stuff that the newgrf spec demands
15:18:18  <TrueBrain> *shrug*
15:18:22  <andythenorth> tbh, I never really understand how grfs are versioned
15:18:25  <TrueBrain> pretty sure nobody can help you approaching this problem from this end
15:18:30  <TrueBrain> possibly better to indicate what you want solved
15:18:34  <TrueBrain> instead of how someone else solved it :P
15:19:00  <andythenorth> probly, for most of what I need git rev-list --count master
15:19:10  <andythenorth> which I can call with subprocess :P
15:19:40  <TrueBrain> so do that already :P
15:19:46  <TrueBrain> you have been on this for what, 4 months now? :P
15:19:56  <andythenorth> longer
15:19:59  <andythenorth> I keep avoiding it
15:20:58  <andythenorth> this one is such a reliable solution :P
15:21:55  <TrueBrain> no no, that is all wrong
15:21:56  <TrueBrain> 2 2 2 2 2
15:21:58  <TrueBrain> much better
15:22:09  <andythenorth> math.random()
15:22:32  <andythenorth> let's hide from this and do docs instead
15:22:40  <andythenorth> why is my README edit awful?
15:22:41  * andythenorth looks
15:23:00  <andythenorth>
15:23:30  <andythenorth> what's the savegame policy?  100% guarantee?
15:23:52  <TrueBrain> 100% best effort, accepting fixes in PRs :P
15:24:12  <TrueBrain> right, new MasterServer and Updater should work
15:24:19  <TrueBrain> I only need a database, and a webfrontend
15:24:31  <TrueBrain> guess I should make an interface for the database, so I can have an in-memory to test
15:24:33  <TrueBrain> sounds sane
15:25:30  <andythenorth> hmm that review is outdated
15:25:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors
15:28:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors
15:29:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors
15:30:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors
15:32:41  <andythenorth> eh, all reviews somehow responded to :P
15:32:43  <andythenorth> result
15:33:06  <andythenorth> ship it, there is minimal future debt in documentation, it's not code
15:33:25  <andythenorth> docs debt tends to carry the cost right now, any improvement is usually a win
15:33:30  <andythenorth> perfection is not essential
15:36:08  <andythenorth> LordAro suspiciously absent
15:36:23  * andythenorth wonders about flooding
15:43:28  *** supermop_Home has quit IRC
15:44:20  *** Wormnest__ has joined #openttd
15:45:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors
15:51:01  *** Wormnest__ has quit IRC
15:51:17  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
15:53:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors
15:53:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors
16:07:56  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
16:24:23  <andythenorth> probably done then :P ^
16:24:32  *** glx has joined #openttd
16:24:32  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
16:31:17  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
16:44:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors
16:50:31  <LordAro> andythenorth: michi_cc: am in the middle of upgrading my VPS right now, would like to have a read through before merging
16:50:34  <LordAro> if you can wait
16:50:39  <LordAro> andythenorth: no flooding here, just very rainy
17:04:54  *** LordAro has quit IRC
17:06:17  *** LordAro has joined #openttd
17:14:19  *** Borg has joined #openttd
17:14:21  <Borg> hooooooi
17:14:41  <Borg> can anyone explain me (basically) how network stuff works here?
17:14:59  <Borg> does server do pathfinding and inform client about result?
17:15:21  <Borg> so if I do pathfinder changes (server side only).. all will still works?
17:19:28  <frosch123> no, the gamestate is update deterministically on all clients
17:19:38  <frosch123> the network only transmit player actions
17:19:52  <frosch123> you can read some more in docs/ or similar
17:19:53  <Borg> damn... DAMN...
17:20:18  <frosch123>
17:20:27  <Borg> thx, got clone locally
17:20:44  <Borg> yep.. seens it..
17:21:59  <Borg> good bye my more determinstic pathfinder ;(
17:23:22  <LordAro> "more deterministic"
17:23:27  <LordAro> it's already very deterministic
17:23:28  <Borg> so, for now.. the only way to control penalty.. is to add PBS back signal...
17:23:52  <Borg> LordAro: from with standpoint? state machine? or user? :)
17:24:01  <Borg> first yes.. second. not really
17:24:59  <Borg> I still struggle to understand.. why adding single block signal (oneway) changes the pathfinder behavior...
17:25:08  <Borg> its green.. no penalty.. yet.. trains preffer that path..
17:25:15  <LordAro> Borg: the former. anything that isn't results in a desync (linked above)
17:25:18  <Borg> if I remove it.. path is no longer preffered
17:26:17  <Borg> okey... I think I understand now..
17:26:33  <glx> line "value" changes when you add/remove signals
17:26:48  <Borg> I forgot to calculate whole path path to the desination.. and look_ahead
17:28:33  <Borg> okey... seems I need to give up my pride of not using back PBS signals as path influencers.. they seems to be best
17:28:40  <Borg> and completly no CPU penalty..
17:29:02  <Borg> too bad there is no "dummy" cost sign.. or sth ;)
17:53:06  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
18:20:27  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
18:23:36  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
18:29:09  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
18:29:09  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
18:36:01  *** tokai has quit IRC
19:09:31  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:56:51  <andythenorth> is cat?
20:04:13  <Eddi|zuHause> miau.
20:15:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable
20:16:38  <glx> hmm I could also my fix for regression on windows, and call the PR "Windows related stuff"
20:16:52  <glx> *also include
20:22:44  <andythenorth> yes?
20:23:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable
20:28:46  <glx> btw not only cx_freeze was not doing what we expected, it also prevented using venv
20:29:06  <LordAro> glx: heh
20:30:01  <glx> with the original it's impossible to do "pip install -e ." in venv, it always wants to install globally
20:30:25  <glx> --user also fails
20:30:38  <glx> without cx_freeze it just works
20:36:57  *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd
20:50:22  <andythenorth> what else needs done before it's merged?
20:50:34  <andythenorth> nml is not savegame critical
20:50:42  <andythenorth> if we broke something, we just fix and release again
20:51:52  <glx> for me it's usable
20:52:03  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
20:52:57  <glx> I have on top of it (output visible on
20:53:37  <andythenorth> I'll just pull it and test
20:53:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro closed issue #39: (AttributeError) "module 'PIL.Image' has no attribute 'VERSION'".
20:53:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0
20:54:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable (and other mostly windows related changes)
20:54:12  <LordAro> eh.
20:54:20  <LordAro> we can fix it in post
20:54:32  *** Borg has quit IRC
20:54:37  <glx> actions says it works
20:54:41  <andythenorth> that phrase was banned on my film shoots LordAro :P
20:54:49  <glx> so it should work you everyone
20:54:53  <andythenorth> also there's no cmd-z undo when you break a camera :P
20:57:24  <andythenorth> pillow fails to build for me
20:57:27  <andythenorth> using python install
20:57:43  <andythenorth> I don't usually bother with
20:58:06  <andythenorth> it's zlib missing headers bollocks, might be mac specific, Apple tend to break headers
20:58:47  <andythenorth> pillow builds fine from pip install
21:01:49  <andythenorth> so what's left for this?
21:03:21  <andythenorth> any updates for README?
21:05:46  <glx> <andythenorth> it's zlib missing headers bollocks, might be mac specific, Apple tend to break headers <-- seems to be local to your machine
21:06:19  <andythenorth> yes
21:06:24  <andythenorth> it happens often
21:06:51  <andythenorth> somehow, with whatever magic, pip has the path to the headers
21:06:56  <andythenorth> so pip pillow is fine
21:07:19  <glx> because has no issue, but it's also using pip
21:08:43  <glx> well it's a hidden " develop"
21:09:22  <glx> and that's magically builds the extension too
21:12:24  <andythenorth> I'm not going to worry about failing on mac
21:12:36  <andythenorth> there's a solution, and if other people report it...meh
21:13:17  <glx> the action tells me it works on mac anyway
21:15:21  <andythenorth> oh you have a mac Azure build?
21:15:22  <andythenorth> neat
21:16:01  <andythenorth> multiple pythons also
21:16:03  <andythenorth> this is good :)
21:16:39  <andythenorth> so we just need a docs update (windows binary instructions, update README)
21:16:41  <andythenorth> then a release
21:17:28  <frosch123> are the artefacts of the azure build actually stored anywhere?
21:17:40  <glx> build standalone, and artifacts are just temporary in this workflow
21:17:54  <glx> I just tested stuff
21:18:09  <glx> the idea would be to write a release workflow
21:18:52  <glx> generating/publishing on pypi
21:19:21  <glx> and building the standalone windows exe and publish in the github tag
21:20:27  <glx> or wherever it must go
21:20:52  <andythenorth> I had azure pushing to S3 bucket for grf
21:20:55  <frosch123> hmm, we never had automatic publish on pypi :)
21:21:01  <andythenorth> we need some generic place to publish artefacts
21:45:19  <LordAro> could just use the github releases page
21:52:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #56: Add: regression workflow for PR and push to master
21:56:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0
22:21:36  *** JacobD88 has quit IRC
22:33:08  <TrueBrain> glx: did you see GitHub Actions now support caching? :D
22:33:20  <glx> yes
22:33:36  <TrueBrain> means we can finally cache shit like venvs etc :)
22:33:40  <TrueBrain> makes builds so much faster!
22:33:46  <andythenorth> LordAro: README merge? o_O
22:34:39  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
22:49:17  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:55:50  *** Samu has quit IRC
22:58:04  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
23:09:19  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
23:16:58  <Eddi|zuHause> we should make a new rule: if you bug developers about merging your PR, it gets rejected :p
23:17:19  <glx> lol
23:34:19  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: historically, that is the only way to get something merged :p
23:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i don't see the problem :p
23:36:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] ConiKost commented on pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0
23:54:05  *** Flygon has joined #openttd

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk