Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:44:13 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 00:54:16 *** nielsm has quit IRC 01:07:49 *** Progman has quit IRC 02:53:49 *** gelignite2nd has joined #openttd 03:00:51 *** glx has quit IRC 03:01:10 *** gelignite has quit IRC 03:13:30 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 03:37:51 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:41:12 *** debdog has quit IRC 04:14:03 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 06:26:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:48:25 <andythenorth> o/ 06:49:15 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:52:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Floedekage commented on issue #7814: More track for the same cost https://git.io/JezxN 07:44:44 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> so when do we fork the newgrf spec for jgrpp? <-- that doesn't make any sense 07:59:30 <andythenorth> fork might not be the right word 07:59:40 <andythenorth> add a variant? 08:02:22 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:04:21 <andythenorth> it's similar to when TTDP was a concern 08:15:46 <peter1138> That's for JGR to do, not us. 08:18:02 <andythenorth> already done it looks like https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/JGRennison/OpenTTD-patches/blob/jgrpp/docs/newgrf-additions.html 08:18:08 <andythenorth> I was thinking about wiki 08:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> we already had discussions about including patchpack stuff in the specs. that's not really the big problem though 08:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the big problem is, how to make newgrf coders use them, without losing the ability to load the same newgrfs in trunk (now and in the future) 08:22:22 <andythenorth> isn't the situation akin to when TTDP could no longer load OpenTTD grfs? 08:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> no 08:23:01 <andythenorth> what differs? 08:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the target audience 08:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> when openttd made the step towards grfv8 (which is, i believe, the point you refer to), TTDP had a miniscule following, and no active development anymore 08:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause> whereas with JGRPP, the userbase of that is still just a tiny fragment of the OTTD userbase 08:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, OTTD still has active development 08:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, none of the JGRPP changes are of any scale similar to grfv8 08:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so, it's not like it would be impossible to make a GRF that loads in both 08:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so, what's actually needed is a way to include the JGRPP-specific features in your GRF, that can be safely skipped in openttd versions that don't have them (yet) 08:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the specs technically have all the tools to achieve that 08:37:07 <andythenorth> I suspect that it's more likely grfs will just target jgr 08:37:25 <andythenorth> that will become interesting on bananas 08:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i find that rather unlikely 08:41:58 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:42:11 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 08:50:58 <andythenorth> is that not the standard bias towards the existing? 08:51:20 <andythenorth> there's a cohort who still can't quite get over the way TTDP lost :P 08:55:44 <peter1138> Is there? 08:58:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7814: More track for the same cost https://git.io/JezxN 08:59:02 <andythenorth> something about bridgeheads or bridges on tunnels or programmable signals or something 08:59:06 * andythenorth doesn't know 08:59:27 <andythenorth> TTDP is still alive also 09:01:44 * andythenorth never played it, was it good? 09:46:50 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:47:05 <Samu> hi 09:51:51 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:57:42 <Samu> weird stuff 09:57:53 <Samu> that savegame on 1.10 beta 09:58:09 <Samu> gives me a higher average ms for road vehicle ticks 10:11:20 *** arikover has joined #openttd 10:14:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:15:56 *** arikover has quit IRC 10:22:19 <peter1138> Is it a release build? 10:23:04 *** arikover has joined #openttd 10:23:23 <Samu> downloaded from the website 10:23:39 <Samu> https://www.openttd.org/downloads/openttd-releases/testing.html 10:23:43 <Samu> i get 74 ms 10:23:59 <Samu> the builds I builds with visual studio give me 64 ms 10:24:08 <Samu> but they're not 1.10 10:25:44 <Samu> im trying to build 1.10 myself 10:25:47 <Samu> will test 10:30:40 <Samu> yeah, i get less ms with my own builds than the official builds 10:30:46 <Samu> why's that? 10:30:59 <Samu> just tested 10:40:47 <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/pEyxxyB.png 10:44:05 <LordAro> curious 10:44:32 <LordAro> it's possible that visual studio is being "clever" and optimising it specifically for your computer, but that's unlikely 10:59:05 <Samu> is there a hotkey for opening the frame rate window? 11:00:59 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 11:16:41 <nielsm> no 11:24:17 <Samu> i made a topic https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=86315&p=1226769#p1226769 11:24:19 <Samu> lel 11:24:30 <Samu> wondering who will post 11:26:03 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 11:30:36 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 11:33:28 *** Flygon has quit IRC 11:44:27 <Samu> @calc 512 / 74 11:44:27 <DorpsGek> Samu: 6.91891891892 11:53:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 12:27:57 *** nielsm has quit IRC 13:00:40 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 13:38:48 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 13:53:08 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 13:59:19 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:59:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 14:23:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7835: Fix e3511ecac: don't use bash specific syntax (again) https://git.io/Jeo0J 14:23:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7835: Fix e3511ecac: don't use bash specific syntax (again) https://git.io/Jer76 14:27:02 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 14:28:09 *** lpx is now known as Guest8016 14:28:25 *** lpx has joined #openttd 14:30:02 *** Guest8016 has quit IRC 14:31:55 <frosch123> ah, that's where the "again" in bash originates from :) 14:32:39 <glx> yeah probably 14:39:33 <andythenorth> hmm now what? 14:39:37 <andythenorth> grfs? 14:39:40 <andythenorth> new website? 14:41:26 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 14:41:31 <supermop_Home> hello 14:42:15 <andythenorth> yo 14:42:22 <andythenorth> perfect timing 14:42:57 <andythenorth> supermop_Home: should I do one of these? I did DVTs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_Brake_Standard_Open 14:44:09 <supermop_Home> sure, unless you want mk2s to get a yellow panel automatically when on in 14:44:40 <supermop_Home> if you use shunting patch dvts / etc become pretty functional 14:44:51 <andythenorth> has to be an engine to lead the train, so it can't just be a sprite change 14:44:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm not sure what's the difference 14:45:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: just a generation thing 14:45:13 <supermop_Home> I will say tho dbso less interesting than dvt as it is not pointy 14:45:20 <andythenorth> yeah, that was my though 14:45:23 <andythenorth> thought * 14:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you can reuse the DVT code, then just draw it? 14:45:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: exactly 14:46:05 <andythenorth> supermop_Home: o_O https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Classes_251_and_261 14:46:12 <andythenorth> I'd have to draw the damn thing though :P 14:46:34 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Instead of it being a loco, you could always just flip the consist using grf magic :P 14:46:43 <supermop_Home> it's been a while since I used shunting patch, but I recall that trains reversing with a regular wagon forward are limited to a very low shunting speed 14:46:43 <andythenorth> ouch no 14:46:58 <andythenorth> blue pullman it is then :P 14:47:03 <andythenorth> that's like an hour of drawing :P 14:47:06 <FLHerne> (remember those UKRS2 railmotors?) 14:47:21 <supermop_Home> whereas a dvt on ends would be a neat way to differentiate those trains you want to be push-pull 14:47:24 <andythenorth> or should I just do a Blue Pullman as precursor to HST? 14:47:40 <andythenorth> it wouldn't be fast though, just different 14:47:58 <FLHerne> andythenorth: With the current DVT-as-loco, does the consist still get visually flipped when reversing? Would spoil the effect a bit 14:48:05 <andythenorth> no it doesn't flip 14:48:25 <andythenorth> I don't get involved in shuffling train sprites around, current code is already at limit of complexity 14:48:27 <FLHerne> I know it's easy to disable for a single vehicle, wasn't sure if the whole train can 14:48:35 <andythenorth> if we want consist flip, game should do it 14:48:36 <FLHerne> Ok, nice :-) 14:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: the consist as a whole will still flip, but you can use newgrf tricks to hide that 14:48:39 <andythenorth> it's a level beyond newgrf 14:48:52 <FLHerne> Oh, I think I read your answer backwar 14:48:55 <andythenorth> sorry :) 14:49:00 <andythenorth> it behaves vanilla 14:49:06 <supermop_Home> maybe i'll try shunting patch again with these dvts 14:49:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc 14:49:40 <andythenorth> I'll do a gen 4 version 14:50:04 <glx> nic conflicts with $Id$ removal :) 14:50:08 <glx> *nice 14:50:09 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, but that's a lot of magic property-switching rather than just setting a flag :-/ 14:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: yeah, the magic flag wasn't implemented yet. it needs some internal restructuring to handle cycling through wagons backwards 14:51:36 <supermop_Home> i'll have to abandon my almost fully built desert steeltown game 14:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: particularly, moving must flip between cycling forwards and backwards, but newgrf callbacks and stuff must always cycle forwards 14:51:59 <andythenorth> supermop_Home: I'll have to send you a grf :P 14:52:04 <andythenorth> no bundles any more :) 14:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i believe frosch123 once had enthusiams to solve that, but then was met with a wall of "... but it must also support X" 14:52:59 * andythenorth wonders how it could be abstracted 14:53:01 <FLHerne> Business as usual, then 14:53:09 <andythenorth> reversing a list is....pretty vanilla :P 14:53:46 <andythenorth> where we doing VehicleVariants? 14:53:53 <andythenorth> or did I make that unappealing :( 14:53:57 <supermop_Home> just merge the shunting patch, lost wagons and low speed collisions and all 14:53:58 <andythenorth> were / where /s 14:54:08 <andythenorth> and a borderline toxic author 14:54:11 <andythenorth> always goes well 14:54:39 <FLHerne> I'd have thought the obvious thing would be to have a "don't reverse consist" flag on the leading engine, and I don't really see how that could be hacked into "...and also I want ponies" 14:54:52 <FLHerne> Well, I suppose 'do magically reverse consist' 14:55:10 <andythenorth> /me can instantly think of things 14:55:19 <andythenorth> like where does the tail light go? 14:55:19 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=168674&sid=6d7f84ce93d744eeb5c2493e5c51ec15 14:55:38 <FLHerne> Agh 14:55:48 <andythenorth> supermop_Home: so if I draw the cab car, I might as well include this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Classes_251_and_261#/media/File:Metropolitan-Cammell_eight-car_DMU,_last_down_Bristol_Pullman,_arriving_Bristol_Temple_Meads_5.5.1973_Scans712_(10510870995).jpg 14:55:48 <frosch123> i don't think i published that old patch on gh yet 14:56:41 <FLHerne> Oh, and I guess one might wish to force it with an order 14:56:52 <FLHerne> For 'reverse into a siding' 14:57:14 <FLHerne> And then you need a property to determine how fast the train can go backwards 14:57:40 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: that's more like shunting, though. and order list is already overloaded 14:57:49 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Well, yeah 14:59:24 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i'd declare that "out of scope" 15:01:32 <andythenorth> hmm steep slopes are too hard to draw 15:01:39 <andythenorth> pixels not suited to it 15:05:43 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 15:10:13 * andythenorth sacks that cab car idea 15:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> just make it a flat front? 15:13:12 <supermop_Home> on these old railway clearing house maps where every tiny hamlet seems to have 1 or two stations... 15:13:46 <supermop_Home> lots of towns also seem to have a little siding terminal named "(village) Goods" 15:14:25 <supermop_Home> were they delivering trainloads of manufactured products to all of these small towns? 15:14:42 <supermop_Home> or did these just serve some local light industry /agriculture 15:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause> ... what? 15:15:13 <supermop_Home> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheadle_Heath_railway_station#/media/File:Cheadle,_Chorlton,_Heaton_Mersey_&_Northenden_RJD_149.jpg 15:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i would assume some train making its round leaving single wagons behind 15:17:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and sporadically some farmer ordering a year's supply of fertilizer or stuff 15:19:11 <supermop_Home> … i can see why they ripped most of this up in the 60s 15:19:12 <michi_cc> supermop_Home: When most of these stations where built, a truck looked like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck#/media/File:DMG-Lastwagen_von_1896.jpg (lorry from 1896, diagramm from 1903). 15:19:23 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 15:19:37 <michi_cc> You don't t need to transport that much to make the railway seem superior. 15:21:14 <supermop_Home> i'm thinking more in terms of the time and effort to couple and decouple wagons everywhere 15:21:52 <supermop_Home> it seems like even by 1903 passenger traffic would be such you'd only be able to do this in the middle of the night 15:23:06 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: Pretty much every station used to have its own goods yard or siding 15:23:48 <FLHerne> Used for coal, fertilizer, agricultural products, whatever 15:23:57 <supermop_Home> if they'd had containers and little gantry cranes at each back then maybe more would survive 15:24:08 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: branch lines had combined passenger/freight trains 15:24:29 <FLHerne> There were a lot of loops, so it was quite easy to recess freight trains between passenger runs 15:26:32 <andythenorth> wagons were also storage 15:27:18 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: See https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lnerdiagrams.htm#XP 15:28:05 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: Pick any random local station 15:28:47 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:28:47 <FLHerne> (I picked Newthorpe, East Leake, Mickleover) 15:29:07 <FLHerne> All but the very smallest have a short freight loop and/or a couple of sidings 15:33:38 <andythenorth> Easte Leake! 15:33:53 * andythenorth considers gypsum 15:44:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] spnda opened issue #57: GRF integer parameters can be given negative values. https://git.io/JeoEa 15:50:22 <FLHerne> ^ that looks like it's also an OTTD bug 15:50:36 <FLHerne> (I assume they shouldn't be able to crash the game) 16:02:38 <supermop_Home> andythenorth: drywalltown? 16:03:43 <andythenorth> :P 16:07:58 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:17:34 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 16:40:15 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:56:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on issue #57: GRF integer parameters can be given negative values. https://git.io/JeoEa 17:00:21 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] spnda commented on issue #57: GRF integer parameters can be given negative values. https://git.io/JeoEa 17:00:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] spnda closed issue #57: GRF integer parameters can be given negative values. https://git.io/JeoEa 17:05:36 *** spnda has joined #openttd 17:05:48 <spnda> Hey, should I reopen my issue form OpenTTD/nml to OpenTTD/OpenTTD? 17:06:09 <spnda> https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/issues/57 17:11:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on issue #57: GRF integer parameters can be given negative values. https://git.io/JeoEa 17:11:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro reopened issue #57: GRF integer parameters can be given negative values. https://git.io/JeoEa 17:17:19 <FLHerne> spnda: It's separate bugs in both of them, really 17:17:44 <FLHerne> NML shouldn't allow it, but OTTD shouldn't crash either (after all, there are NFO grfs...) 17:18:10 <spnda> Probably, yes. I'll reopen the NML issue aswell. I'm about to submit one on the OpenTTD repository aswell. 17:18:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] spnda opened issue #7836: Negativ Integer values for GRF Parameters crashes the game https://git.io/Jeozl 17:38:04 <FLHerne> I was thinking of having another go at a multiplayer game but with UKRS2 this time 17:46:44 <FLHerne> ^did that, started server 17:46:58 <FLHerne> "Casual UK-ish server" 17:47:21 <FLHerne> ping supermop_Home, Eddi|zuHause, andythenorth :P 17:47:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what do i have to do with that? 17:48:21 * andythenorth can't play :) 17:50:57 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Sorry, I realized a problem, should be back 17:51:12 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Sorry, ISTR playing multiplayer with you before 17:51:17 <FLHerne> Maybe I have names crossed 17:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i've only ever played multiplayer once, and that was on brianettas server 17:53:44 <FLHerne> Bleh, now I found another issue... 17:53:57 * FLHerne awaits safe ingame newgrf fiddling 17:55:16 <supermop_Home> ate dim sum 17:55:33 <supermop_Home> casual server? 17:55:38 <supermop_Home> what version? 17:57:54 <supermop_Home> im down fwiw 17:58:22 <FLHerne> 1.9.3 17:58:32 <supermop_Home> DVTs? 17:58:39 <FLHerne> andythenorth/supermop_Home: Should be fixed and running [again] 18:08:41 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 18:26:49 * andythenorth afk 18:33:20 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 18:33:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 18:40:03 *** tokai has quit IRC 18:45:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Jeoae 18:45:48 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:55:40 <andythenorth> hmm 18:57:10 <andythenorth> how fast for this? https://photos.smugmug.com/DieselShuntingLocomotives/Class-08/Class08-Miscellaneous/i-Kfh6jhH/1/d476acb9/M/1986-05-03-%280018%29-M.jpg 18:57:17 <andythenorth> IRL 15-25mph 18:57:28 * andythenorth thinks 45mph :P 19:00:16 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 19:01:53 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:21:58 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 19:26:56 <TrueBrain> glx: https://openttd.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/openttd-nightlies/20191116-master-g70f8c729d4/manifest.yaml :) 19:39:41 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:43:31 <LordAro> huzzah 19:51:35 *** arikover has quit IRC 20:09:34 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC 20:45:20 *** arikover has joined #openttd 20:57:23 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:58:14 *** gelignite2nd has quit IRC 21:07:02 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 21:45:23 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:49:27 *** spnda has quit IRC 22:09:13 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 22:10:20 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 23:28:37 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:41:05 *** Flygon has joined #openttd