Log for #openttd on 19th November 2019:
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04:51:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7840: Fix #7836: check coherency of newgrf parameter min/max
04:57:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] timmeh87 commented on issue #7838: random crash
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09:59:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7840: Fix #7836: check coherency of newgrf parameter min/max
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10:24:41  <Pikka> silly planetmaker ;)
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10:55:50  <andythenorth> yo
10:55:54  <andythenorth> quak etc
11:29:16  <peter1138> Is it lunch time yet?
11:30:35  <andythenorth> it needs to be
11:30:37  <andythenorth> I am hungry
11:30:43  <peter1138> Elevenses?
11:30:52  <andythenorth> eleven-thirtysies
11:31:13  <andythenorth> I have tried drinking a lot of coffee, but it doesn't seem to be filling :P
11:31:55  <andythenorth> porridge?
11:33:15  <andythenorth> frosch123: you are here unusually early?
11:38:32  <frosch123> i have 6 weeks of free time left :p
11:38:45  <LordAro> nice
11:38:46  <frosch123> probably won't do ottd though
11:39:00  * LordAro waves
11:50:26  <peter1138> Yeah, I've been drinking lots of coffee and it just results in lots of peeing.
11:55:58  <andythenorth> keeps it flowing eh?
11:56:19  <andythenorth> frosch123: I found this yesterday, were you grumpy about something? :D
11:56:30  <andythenorth> couldn't decide if the post was satire or not
11:57:43  <frosch123> haha, yes, i always made fun of people who wanted to disable all aspects of the original gameplay
12:00:34  <frosch123> i agreed with rb that the "ttd" in openttd stands for something, so if people want a different game they should write an add-on instead of trying to convince people that the original gameplay is "wrong" or "ill-designed"
12:02:05  <andythenorth> +1
12:02:18  <frosch123> also yes, i considered it funny that people actually used the grf, so some years later i made a second version which actually had settings to make it useful. though it was eventually superceded by ogfx+industries
12:02:32  <peter1138> 2000 downloads...
12:02:37  <andythenorth> it actually isn't, at least not in my version of ogfx+
12:03:20  <frosch123> Manual Industries	2-r5	253093 times	66724D49	GPL v2
12:03:28  <frosch123> well, bananas stats do not mean anything :)
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12:03:34  <andythenorth> MOST POPULAR GRF
12:04:14  <peter1138> o_O
12:04:15  <andythenorth> I read some old forum threads this week
12:04:28  <andythenorth> bizarrely, things in forums have not got worse :P
12:04:29  <frosch123> the most weird people are those who call their add-ons "better xyz"
12:04:36  <andythenorth> 'final final'
12:04:51  <frosch123> though i noticed they also exist in other games/communitities
12:05:28  <andythenorth> I discovered some classic DaleStan posts also
12:05:29  <peter1138> Yet Another...
12:05:41  <peter1138> We called everything New for a long time.
12:05:43  <andythenorth> refreshing as they are, I'm not sure DaleStan increased community harmony :P
12:05:50  <andythenorth> Now We Call Things Not
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12:06:05  <peter1138> Mm
12:06:19  * andythenorth considers NotLiveries
12:06:33  <frosch123> i think "new xyz" and "yet another xyz" are more reasonable than "better xyz"
12:06:44  <andythenorth> XYZ Revival!
12:06:49  <andythenorth> XYZ Renewal
12:07:09  <frosch123> ah, andy is back to liveries
12:07:12  <andythenorth> things should be named after animals
12:07:13  <peter1138> Don't diss Pikka!
12:07:17  <andythenorth> MoreHeightLevelsCat
12:07:28  <andythenorth> ImprovedFancyTimetablesBear
12:07:43  <andythenorth> PikkaBird
12:07:59  <andythenorth> hmm is my space key broken?
12:08:13  <frosch123> you confused it with shift
12:08:32  <andythenorth> Quite Possibly
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12:11:54  <frosch123> maybe you are the author or vi?
12:13:08  <frosch123> ESC is an important key in vi, it was choosen because it was in a convenient location on the computer vi was developer for: the location where tab is today
12:13:22  <frosch123> now it's just stupid
12:13:25  <andythenorth> my esc key is virtual :(
12:13:34  <andythenorth> because emojibar
12:13:49  <LordAro> ew
12:14:13  <frosch123> only using vi with german keyboard layout is more stupid, since the most used command "search" is on "/", which requires shift plus the key furthest away from both shift keys
12:14:24  <frosch123> so if you have small hands you cannot search with one hand in vi :p
12:14:55  <andythenorth> if I buy a laptop with AMD Radeon Pro 5300M, can I play WOT Blitz on Not The Lowest Settings?
12:15:34  <frosch123> if you buy that laptop, do you still have enough money left for playing blitz?
12:16:59  <frosch123> also would that laptop improve or worsen the ottd fps situation?
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12:24:11  <andythenorth> due to unique Apple pricing
12:24:33  <andythenorth> I can buy a 16" laptop with more CPU and GPU for the same price as my maxed-out 13" with no GPU :P
12:24:51  <andythenorth> so I'd have the same money for Blitz, but a lot more laptop :P
12:25:19  <andythenorth> but it's 2.2kg instead of 1.5kg
12:25:41  <andythenorth> or something
12:27:33  <frosch123> the last notebook i had at my old job, i think the external power supply unit was heavier than the rest
12:28:26  <andythenorth> USB-C charging is a revelation :P
12:28:27  <frosch123> maybe it was a "portable computer" instead of a notebook
12:40:41  <andythenorth> can I use alt as a modifier key in openttd?
12:41:13  <andythenorth> [for choosing vehicle livery]
12:42:02  <frosch123> alt is usually used by the operating system
12:42:18  <andythenorth> I couldn't see any prior use of it in ottd
12:42:29  <frosch123> yes, ottd always avoided it
12:42:30  <andythenorth> shift is taken
12:42:40  <andythenorth> and ctrl is already used for the Vitally Important Depot Flip
12:45:46  <peter1138> Nearly lunch.
12:46:10  <peter1138> Yeah, alt is often used by the OS.
12:46:30  <peter1138> Or at least the window manager.
12:47:32  * andythenorth wonders if we need depot flip :P
12:48:10  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Aren't those basically the same thing?
12:48:21  <andythenorth> depot flip is a bit
12:48:25  <andythenorth> I want a byte :P
12:48:27  <FLHerne> Both of them are fundamentally "toggle visual appearance"
12:48:31  <FLHerne> UI-wise, I mean
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12:48:49  <andythenorth> I find it hard to disagree :D
12:49:12  <FLHerne> If you allowed it to cycle through more options, and kept the current behaviour for existing vehicles, no-one would care
12:49:47  <andythenorth> I proposed that already, but I was asked to stop proposing it :)
12:50:02  <FLHerne> By whom, and why?
12:50:26  <FLHerne> Or "stop proposing it, and just write the damn code already?"
12:50:39  <andythenorth> by Eddi, because it's incorrect :)
12:50:56  <andythenorth> but so far there was no better proposal
12:51:03  <FLHerne> I still don't see how
12:51:42  <andythenorth> I have seen mockups for liveries
12:51:43  <peter1138> Vehicle Variants?
12:51:54  <andythenorth> well
12:51:59  <peter1138> Who knows.
12:52:10  <peter1138> YAWTCVG
12:52:26  <andythenorth> I think I de-acronymed that :P
12:52:48  <andythenorth> You Are Welcome To Code Very Goodly
12:52:56  <peter1138> Ooof
12:53:11  <peter1138> Yet Another Way To Change Vehicle Graphics
12:53:15  <andythenorth> oic :)
12:53:22  <andythenorth> the existing liveries feature in newgrf spec isn't great
12:53:28  <andythenorth> and had a ton of FS issues which I closed
12:53:33  <peter1138> Cargo subtypes?
12:53:35  <peter1138> No.
12:53:35  <andythenorth> yes
12:53:48  <andythenorth> and no
12:53:58  <peter1138> My salad lunchbox is only half full.
12:54:04  <andythenorth> because you ate it?
12:54:10  <peter1138> No, my half-lettuce was pretty small today.
12:54:17  <peter1138> (Half a sweet gem)
12:55:24  <peter1138> Still, I have olives & cheese in this salad.
12:55:35  <peter1138> Until about 5 minutes time.
12:55:38  <andythenorth> so...we convert depot flip to a byte not a bit
12:55:50  <andythenorth> put a backwards compatibility shim in for the old var
12:56:03  <peter1138> No.
12:56:04  <andythenorth> and ctrl-click increments it through 16 values, rolling over
12:56:20  <andythenorth> and newgrf author uses mod(x) to handle the cycle
12:56:20  <peter1138> It's too hidden.
12:56:32  <andythenorth> then we extend it to give each value a string
12:56:34  <peter1138> And suffers similar issues to cargo subtypes.
12:56:37  <andythenorth> and put a weird floating menu in
12:56:46  <peter1138> (It's hidden)
12:56:51  <andythenorth> I'm all good with it until the weird floating menu idea
12:56:59  <peter1138> Floating circular menu
12:57:07  <andythenorth> super
12:57:35  <andythenorth> ideally something like Kai's Power Tools
12:57:47  <andythenorth>
12:58:15  <peter1138>
12:58:22  <peter1138> Makita's Power Tools
12:58:34  <FLHerne> Is anyone else seeing really weird bugs with joined rail/RV stations in 1.9.3
12:58:43  <andythenorth> no circular menu on the Makita?
12:58:45  <andythenorth> fail
12:59:03  <peter1138> Well, there's a circular saw...
12:59:10  <FLHerne> e.g. I removed the RV stop from a station, and built another
12:59:18  <peter1138> I wonder if that jigsaw works better than mine.
12:59:42  <peter1138> I tried cutting a straight line, with a guide, and the blade just wandered off to the side anyway.
12:59:44  <FLHerne> Which shows as parts of the same station as expected, but when I add an order there it's set to a completely different station
12:59:49  <LordAro> FLHerne: station selection broken? known issue
13:00:13  <peter1138> It was okay free hand as I could twist it away but not a very straight line...
13:00:18  <FLHerne> And if I click the rail station, it just says "Unable to add order..." or so
13:00:21  <peter1138> Probably need a circular saw :p
13:00:25  <FLHerne> [literal "..."[
13:00:46  <LordAro> FLHerne: fixed in 1.10
13:00:53  <FLHerne> LordAro: Ok :-)
13:00:56  <LordAro> we could've had a 1.9.4, but...
13:01:00  <peter1138> Oh, I broke something in 1.9 eh?
13:01:08  <peter1138> Surprise!
13:02:01  <LordAro> it only got missed from 1.9.3 because the issue was missing the "backport requested" label
13:02:13  <FLHerne> I don't see it in the changelog?
13:02:19  <LordAro> it had already been fixed in master by the time 1.9.3 was released
13:03:09  <LordAro> FLHerne: probably not
13:04:01  <andythenorth> I did draw a UI for more obvious liveries (or maybe other vehicle options)
13:04:01  <andythenorth>
13:04:34  <peter1138> Yes but that's ridiculous.
13:04:46  <andythenorth> it's not hidden? o_O
13:05:10  <andythenorth> also I missed the bottom bevel off all the arrows :(
13:05:12  <andythenorth> details matter
13:06:08  <andythenorth> FLHerne: did you find the liveries in Horse yet? o_O
13:06:16  <peter1138> Oh, it's 10 minutes since I discussed food and I haven't started eating yet. Oops.
13:06:24  <FLHerne> andythenorth: For some of Pikka's tiny wagons, the button would totally hide the vehicle...
13:06:25  <andythenorth> and it's gone 1pm
13:06:35  <peter1138> Yeah.
13:06:46  <andythenorth> I should make a salad
13:06:55  <andythenorth> there are piles of aging salad in my fridge
13:07:01  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I don't think I've used them (except the randomized freight)
13:07:13  <andythenorth> FLHerne: they're probably...too hidden
13:07:41  <FLHerne> TBF, I've only played a couple of moderate-length Horse games before deciding it's not for me
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13:14:39  <andythenorth> here...I lovingly made a double-sized video of it
13:14:47  <andythenorth> not quicktime though, bonus
13:15:01  * andythenorth wonders if peter1138 can open .mp4 :P
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13:21:14  <Samu> can't post a savegame in the forum
13:21:21  <Samu> it's 31 MB
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13:23:23  <LordAro> Samu: always playing at silly big map sizes does have its disadvantages :p
13:23:58  <Samu> i blame trees
13:24:11  <Samu> they contribute to 75% of the save size, maybe momre
13:25:47  <peter1138> Well that got devoured.
13:26:01  <andythenorth> NotTrees
13:26:13  <peter1138> andythenorth, fake video. It's super-fluid...
13:26:28  <andythenorth> I made it in After Effects
13:26:31  <andythenorth> took me days
13:26:35  <peter1138> Yes.
13:26:36  <andythenorth> or not
13:26:45  <peter1138> Hmm, my mini cinnamon roll thing was a bit stale :/
13:27:18  <peter1138> Have I got any chocolate?
13:27:31  <peter1138> Caramac. Almost.
13:27:34  <andythenorth> there is often some reserved in the ship
13:27:35  <andythenorth> shop *
13:27:51  <peter1138> The shop is several minutes away.
13:28:54  <peter1138> 0.7 miles!
13:29:29  <peter1138> Anyway, I have caramac. Or indeed a lemon Daim bar.
13:29:39  <peter1138> Or I could just not eat chocolate, it's bad for you.
13:29:53  <LordAro> in high amounts
13:30:14  <peter1138> I could probably eat some. I am only 12½ stone.
13:30:33  <andythenorth> magnesium in chocolate
13:30:35  <andythenorth> good for you
13:31:34  <LordAro> @calc 12.5*14
13:31:34  <DorpsGek> LordAro: 175
13:31:39  <andythenorth> so...
13:31:46  <andythenorth> - we don't have any spare hotkeys
13:31:50  <andythenorth> - ctrl-click is too hidden
13:31:55  <peter1138> 79.5, if you will.
13:32:18  <andythenorth> - my beautifully drawn drop down menu arrows are not loved
13:32:20  <LordAro> well that's less than me
13:32:33  <LordAro> (i think, i don't own any scales)
13:32:37  <andythenorth> - the subtypes route is just weird
13:33:19  <andythenorth> I forgot to eat the salad
13:33:27  <andythenorth> I found some macaroni cheese defrosting
13:33:29  <andythenorth> so I ate it
13:33:35  <LordAro> andythenorth: what's the current UI concern?
13:33:42  <peter1138> That seem sensible.
13:34:01  <andythenorth> waste not want not etc
13:34:14  <andythenorth> which current UI LordAro ? :)
13:34:22  <Samu> Savegame is too big, had to create a multi-file 7z archive. First extract the 2 tars separately, put the extracted files in the same folder, then use 7-zip to extract the 7z.001 and 7z.002 files in one go.
13:34:43  <LordAro> andythenorth: the one you're currently complaining about :p
13:35:12  <andythenorth> it's just not very good, I'll see if I can find a newgrf that uses it
13:35:17  <peter1138> Maybe I'll have this banana.
13:35:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7840: Fix #7836: check coherency of newgrf parameter min/max
13:36:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7840: Fix #7836: check coherency of newgrf parameter min/max
13:36:41  <Samu>
13:36:46  <Samu> crashed right before 5000 ships
13:36:53  <Samu> bad luck
13:37:54  <peter1138> Oh right, 1 banana, 100 carolies. Chocolate would've been less ;(
13:42:39  <andythenorth> LordAro: the current liveries implementation is just a bit clunky and indirect
13:42:52  <andythenorth> and it has a few issues reported, e.g.
13:43:17  <LordAro> i see
13:43:59  <andythenorth>
13:44:50  <andythenorth> there are a few more
13:45:41  <LordAro> all closed by you :p
13:45:51  <andythenorth> yes
13:46:47  <andythenorth> "for some reason the liveries feature is tied to cargos"
13:47:15  <andythenorth> "kinda odd"
13:51:15  <andythenorth> obvs. I prefer my own odd implementation :P
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13:53:46  <frosch123> andythenorth: the reason why subcargos fail is that they fail to link "same liveries" between "different vehicles"
13:53:58  <frosch123> so autoreplace and sometimes autorenew have a hard time
13:54:03  <andythenorth> yes
13:54:09  <andythenorth> putting aside that the UI is clunky :P
13:54:16  <frosch123> just using another 1 bit or 8 bits does not solve that
13:54:21  <andythenorth> it's logical and all having nice tidy lists and long descriptions :P
13:54:38  <andythenorth> but it's indirect manipulation :P
13:55:37  <andythenorth> frosch123: LiveryTypes!
13:55:43  <andythenorth> 4 char. strings
13:55:52  <andythenorth> we can have a wiki page for them!
13:56:08  <peter1138> :/
13:56:41  <andythenorth> frosch123: reddit has also solved 'why is daylength hard', in just 2 posts
13:56:42  <andythenorth>
13:56:46  <andythenorth>
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14:01:42  <frosch123> andythenorth: i was unaware of the pikka solution
14:02:12  <frosch123> also "dieselpunk" :p
14:02:33  <andythenorth> yes
14:03:08  <andythenorth> if I hadn't invented this stupid rosters concept in Iron Horse
14:03:15  <andythenorth> I could do something like Pikka or NUTS
14:04:08  <andythenorth> hmm
14:04:20  <andythenorth> frosch123 do liveries *need* to persist across autoreplace?
14:05:29  <frosch123> it's essential for heqs
14:05:40  <frosch123> replace medium length tram with medium length tram
14:06:02  <frosch123> but there are other examples, i just can't remember them :)
14:06:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7840: Fix #7836: check coherency of newgrf parameter min/max
14:06:17  <andythenorth> oh dear HEQS :P
14:06:21  <andythenorth> which idiot made that
14:11:31  <frosch123> i guess the other example is something like world-airliners-set
14:11:47  <frosch123> where you pick the livery from dozen of rl companies
14:12:03  <frosch123> and you certainly do not want to reset the selection when changing vehicles
14:13:59  <supermop_work_> andythenorth: daylength appropriate vehicle timeline not your problem to solve
14:14:23  <andythenorth> maybe not, but daylength is becoming a problem
14:14:49  <supermop_work_> as has been said, daylength means at least two contradicting things
14:14:54  <andythenorth> problem / thing /s
14:15:04  <andythenorth> let's not think I'm dramaing on the internet
14:15:57  <supermop_work_> however it manifests, it will have all sets to deal with anyway, not just yours
14:16:55  <supermop_work_> i just don't see a meaningful way for individual sets to help it in some 'designed' way
14:18:57  <andythenorth> hoping it goes away has failed :)
14:19:11  <andythenorth> maybe someone else will fork FIRS and keep it off my plate
14:44:55  <supermop_work_> man what if MUs just had one cab
14:45:20  <supermop_work_> and only get 2 if it's all alone
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15:03:35  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_work_: that sounds very wrong to me
15:04:41  <andythenorth> supermop_work_: o_O
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15:51:50  <andythenorth> so anyway the ctrl-click liveries method fails with articulated vehicles :P
15:52:00  <andythenorth> I could make a video to prove it, but you can imagine :P
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16:04:08  <andythenorth> so...depot flip articulated consists then?
16:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but not for the reasons you want it :p
16:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i spend 3 weeks in twitch chats, and want to end all sentences with "Kappa"...
16:14:09  <andythenorth> I think :P is kappa
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16:15:31  <andythenorth> if we fix articulated vehicle flip
16:15:47  <andythenorth> I can announce a new 'livery spec' and publish the world's most convoluted nml templates
16:15:54  <andythenorth> 'now featuring 2 liveries'
16:19:17  <frosch123> what happened to the tree-based purchase list?
16:20:24  <andythenorth> I ruined it somehow
16:20:27  <andythenorth> I forget how
16:25:18  <andythenorth> oh yeah
16:25:27  <andythenorth> sort order in buy menu :(
16:26:01  <andythenorth> sorting nested / hidden items is in top 10 worst UI hassles
16:26:41  <frosch123> i think that is solveable, sort in every group, sort the group by the top-score of its members
16:27:12  <Eddi|zuHause> sort the vehicles individually, "head" of the group is whatever vehicle comes first
16:27:31  <frosch123> sounds equivalent
16:27:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. somewhat
16:28:38  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause's seems better defined
16:29:01  <nielsm> since it also handles reverse sorting
16:30:10  <andythenorth> you think it won't get bug reports?
16:30:15  <andythenorth> :)
16:30:26  <andythenorth> I'm 99% certain james103 will report it
16:31:55  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that doesn't sound like the right metric
16:32:21  <andythenorth> oops admin fail, I should be somewhere else
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16:35:03  <frosch123> probably lunch
16:40:10  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm... "double free in /bin/bash" wtf?
16:40:23  <Eddi|zuHause> something's seriously falling apart
16:41:18  <frosch123> memtest86 is your friend
16:41:20  <Eddi|zuHause> brb (i hope)
16:41:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i should probably do that
16:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> my /home had some filesystem corruption recently...
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18:08:20  <Eddi|zuHause> so, memtest showed nothing obvious, i'm gonna assume it's my SSD's fault, which also contained some swap
18:11:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i moved everything off of /home that i could, but something seems to be missing
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18:16:03  <andythenorth> yo
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18:17:45  <andythenorth> if we did have variants, could we modify var 41?
18:17:47  <andythenorth>
18:17:49  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a shell command for "find broken links"?
18:17:55  <andythenorth> so that it checks list of IDs
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18:18:26  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, that would be a new var
18:18:55  <andythenorth> could we clone var 41, adding a new var that checks a list of IDs?
18:19:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne opened pull request #60: Avoid duplicating rail/road/tramtype table code
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18:20:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how would you pass it a list of IDs?
18:20:02  <andythenorth> FLHerne fixing my mess :)
18:20:07  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: stuff registers
18:20:12  <andythenorth> same as always
18:20:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't see that working
18:22:43  <andythenorth> because...?
18:23:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #60: Avoid duplicating rail/road/tramtype table code
18:24:23  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a parameter cannot contain a list. and nobody uses the textstack properly
18:25:23  <Eddi|zuHause> so, "find -L -type l" should do what i want?
18:26:46  <andythenorth> isn't it just 'check IDs in registers 0-15' or something?
18:27:05  <andythenorth> I'm sure there's an existing example somewhere, but I can't find it :P
18:27:09  <andythenorth> frosch123 might know
18:29:46  <frosch123> i had a solution for "consist search", but apparently i wrote no text
18:29:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #60: Avoid duplicating rail/road/tramtype table code
18:29:54  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the only thing that might be practical would be to treat IDs of the same group as equivalent
18:29:55  <FLHerne> [sorry]
18:30:17  <frosch123> anyway, the idea was similar to the procedure call va2: call this va2 for every vehicle in the consist
18:30:36  <andythenorth> maybe it was industry 16-cargos where we tried to handle lists
18:30:40  <frosch123> so you can iterate over the consist, check stuff, and collect in registers
18:30:48  <andythenorth> o_O
18:31:03  <frosch123> like std::transform_reduce
18:32:09  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the 'same group' solution occurred to me, it just seems less generally useful
18:32:26  <frosch123> it started with that french guy (snail?) asking for vars as ridiculous as those george industry vars
18:32:26  <andythenorth> I already had the multiple IDs case IRL :P
18:32:43  <frosch123> which got extended with more arcane stuff, and in the end noone unsed them
18:32:57  <andythenorth> did I not ask for arcane vars too? :P
18:32:59  <andythenorth> sure I did
18:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that'll be a pain to teach nml?
18:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i tried like twice to teach it procedure call, failed the same number of times
18:38:12  <andythenorth> oh here was my mockup
18:38:14  <andythenorth> it has issues
18:39:46  <andythenorth> oh here is what I use var 41 for
18:39:58  <andythenorth> different sprites depending on position
18:40:24  <andythenorth> it's not essential to preserve that across variants, but it would avoid some weird results :P
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18:45:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:45:45  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:51:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #60: Avoid duplicating rail/road/tramtype table code
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18:55:29  <andythenorth> how about checking a list of ideas with a break/continue loop? :P
18:55:39  <andythenorth> and incremementing a counter along the way
18:55:47  <andythenorth> IDs not ideas, wtf am I typing :P
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18:58:35  <andythenorth> doesn't the articulated vehicle CB do something similar?
18:58:41  <andythenorth> oh var, not cb though :|
18:58:44  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
19:13:11  <Wolf01> You look tired
19:17:10  <Eddi|zuHause> a 6x-var, that calls a callback for each vehicle, passing the parameter as extra_callback_info1 and collating the return values in some way?
19:18:12  <Eddi|zuHause> or, the parameter as info1, and the current result as info2
19:18:45  <Eddi|zuHause> performance of that will be a nightmare?
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19:28:57  <Eddi|zuHause> grmpf... something prevents plasmashell from running... but i can't find out what
19:29:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but i really don't want to clean out /home and start over...
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19:35:58  <frosch123> move your home first, so you can check whether a clean home would even help
19:36:04  <frosch123> or whether the issue is somewhere else
19:36:07  <andythenorth> Big Clive disassembles batteries
19:36:39  <Wolf01>  <frosch123> move your home first, so you can check whether a clean home would even help <- I wish I could do that too... for real
19:37:10  <frosch123> tried a tent?
19:37:42  <Wolf01> I have a camper, but crap still moves with it
19:37:52  <andythenorth> the good bit is around 16mins
19:40:24  <frosch123> ah, silly me... ofc wolf should try a house built with lego
19:40:32  <andythenorth> Wolf01: new technic crane?
19:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause> ... and amarok has lost all file statistics...
19:41:42  <Wolf01> Yes, but too small
19:41:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ... it tends to do that whenever the drive changes
19:50:04  <andythenorth> Wolf01: small is advantage imho
19:50:11  <andythenorth> less stuff :P
19:50:17  * andythenorth has been deleting lego recently
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20:06:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #60: Avoid duplicating rail/road/tramtype table code
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21:13:37  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Love that video
21:13:40  <FLHerne> "Okay. Riight. Yeah, not sure the science of this, but this is all going on fire quite rapidly."
21:21:02  *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC
21:22:56  <FLHerne> "Oh, this isn't necessarily quite good..."
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21:59:44  <andythenorth> pie dish
22:02:19  <peter1138> I had... vegetables.
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22:13:36  <andythenorth> so variants then :P
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22:36:03  <FLHerne> Can someone explain what the
22:36:38  <FLHerne> ID_1: [ID_2, ID_3]
22:36:59  <FLHerne> format in rail/roadtype tables actually does?
22:39:13  <frosch123> ID_1 is an identifier in the nml source, it does not affect the resulting grf
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22:39:27  <frosch123> ID_2, 3... are tracktype labels
22:39:45  <frosch123> ID_1 is assigned to the first one in the list, that exists at runtime
22:40:55  <frosch123> the list is meant to start with specialised track types and gradually list more general types which are available in multple track grfs
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22:51:37  <FLHerne> frosch123: Thanks
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22:54:00  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: for example, if you're trying to write a set with 3rd rail powered vehicles, you could do 'thirdrail: ["3DRL", ELRL]'
22:54:26  <Eddi|zuHause> then your third rail vehicles will be converted to electric, if no trackset is loaded that provides the "3DRL" type
22:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause> or you could do 'thirdrail: ["3DRL"]'
22:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause> then the vehicles will get disabled, if the railtype does not exist
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22:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause> the only point of that would be to avoid to use the cumbersome "3DRL" label throughout your code, as it always has to be given as a string, not an identifier
22:56:42  <Eddi|zuHause> (i actually don't remember the exact label they used, only that it started with a "3")
22:57:39  <FLHerne> Ok
22:57:56  <FLHerne> Now I just can't see how that's actually implemented in nml
22:58:30  <FLHerne> RailtypeListProp.write() [for the vehicle properties] just writes identifiers
22:58:46  <FLHerne> I guess it must be lowered somewhere
22:59:06  <FLHerne> But I can't find any reference to the railtype table from outside that
22:59:26  <FLHerne> s/that/the code responsible for writing the table itself/
23:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: iirc it writes a single RTT into the file, and writes the correct labels into it using action6
23:01:16  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: the vehicles themselves only write indexes into this RTT
23:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> which are independent from which railtype is actually chosen
23:03:38  <FLHerne> Sorry, I still don't get it
23:04:30  <FLHerne> So for your example, I could have in the vehicle properties  `compatible_railtype_list: [thirdrail]` ?
23:06:47  <FLHerne> (it would be nice if the examples actually had an example)
23:06:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
23:07:19  <FLHerne> But RailtypeListProp.write() only writes a list of 4-byte labels
23:07:36  <Eddi|zuHause> and nml treats the "thirdrail" there as "write the numerical position in the RTT"
23:07:39  <FLHerne> So what label(s) does that end up getting mapped to, and how?
23:07:43  <FLHerne> Ah
23:08:03  <Eddi|zuHause> the vehicles don't use the labels
23:08:26  <FLHerne> I think I need to read the NFO specs more
23:08:41  <Eddi|zuHause> it's tricky sometimes, yes :)
23:08:52  <frosch123> FLHerne: the nml table is not written 1:1 into the grf
23:09:01  <frosch123> the list is transformed into an if-cascade
23:09:20  <frosch123> checking existence of each label, and then remembering the result
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23:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: if your RTT is "RAIL, ELRL, thirdrail : [blah]" then for the remainder of the GRF, the "value" of RAIL is 0, ELRL is 1 and thirdrail is 2
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23:18:45  <FLHerne> Oh, I see why I couldn't find it
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23:19:26  <FLHerne> All the constant ID lowering just uses const_list, which the railtype IDs get folded into...?
23:19:57  <FLHerne> So it'll cheerfully accept any random ID referring to something else entirely
23:20:10  <FLHerne> There doesn't even seem to be a range check
23:20:18  * FLHerne tries
23:23:31  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i've had some creative uses of these IDs in #7000
23:25:48  <FLHerne> Yep, I can have a vehicle with road type CLIMATE_TOYLAND
23:25:52  <FLHerne> Because why the hell not
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23:28:51  <glx> I tried to see what should be done for nml#57, seems it won't be easy
23:29:37  <glx> parsing complicates things
23:30:14  <FLHerne> I'm increasingly getting the impression that nmlc internals are a bit of a mess :-/
23:30:47  <glx> MAX_UINT32 is parsed as -1
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23:33:52  <FLHerne> From a byte point of view, that should be equivalent?
23:34:11  <FLHerne> Presumably if OTTD crashes it's being treated as a signed integer
23:34:23  <FLHerne> so MAX_UINT32 would be out-of-range also
23:34:45  <glx> and ConstantNumeric are truncated to int32, so not even range checked
23:35:16  <glx> no it's treated as unsigned in OTTD
23:35:26  <glx> the crash is because min > max
23:35:36  <glx> so empty dropdown
23:36:02  <glx> for MAX_UINT32 to 1 ;)
23:36:21  <glx> but on OTTD side it's easy to fix
23:37:30  <glx> there are other issues on OTTD, it's impossible to enter values above MAX_INT32 in the GUI
23:37:47  <glx> unless you click on the arrow
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