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I had half my salad today. It was big even for me. 13:53:54 <peter1138> And then I ate some crisps which I don't normally do. Pretty dumb. 13:59:17 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 14:03:04 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 14:03:05 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 14:23:31 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 14:27:10 *** Arveen has quit IRC 14:42:42 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:58:36 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 15:06:13 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 15:26:59 *** tokai has quit IRC 15:33:32 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:33:54 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:34:52 *** Arveen has quit IRC 15:36:00 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:44:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/JeX0o 16:00:26 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 16:06:54 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:07:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7791: GS method to control engine availability for a specific company https://git.io/JeXE0 16:10:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/Jeiuj 16:10:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/Je3UD 16:11:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/JeXEK 16:30:20 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:36:53 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:41:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SkippyCoo9 opened issue #7846: Missing Industries https://git.io/JeXze 16:45:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SkippyCoo9 commented on issue #7846: Missing Industries https://git.io/JeXze 17:02:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7846: Missing Industries https://git.io/JeXze 17:15:44 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 17:18:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #66: Add: allow use of switches and random switches as procedures https://git.io/JePq0 17:19:54 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 17:21:34 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 17:22:21 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:22:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:34:00 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:44:18 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 17:52:04 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 17:54:47 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:06:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:22:15 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 18:25:58 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 18:26:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:27:01 <andythenorth> yo 18:27:04 <frosch123> hoi 18:27:06 <Wolf01> Oy 18:27:15 <frosch123> didn't you have a list of what needs documenting for nml? 18:27:29 <frosch123> i wanted to write a test grf, but noone documented the 64cargo industry vars 18:27:48 <glx> is it supported by nml ? 18:27:54 <andythenorth> https://github.com/openTTD/nml/issues 18:28:00 <frosch123> apparently, it does not compile the old ones 18:28:23 <andythenorth> 16cargo props and prod. cb are documented 18:28:28 <andythenorth> I don't know about vars 18:28:43 <andythenorth> or 64cargo vars 18:28:56 <andythenorth> FIRS appears to work FWIW 18:29:11 <andythenorth> happy to help, or extend the examples 18:29:15 <frosch123> essentially all vars ending in _1 or _2 (i guess) 18:29:34 <andythenorth> imho nml really needs comprehensive examples as a hygiene factor 18:29:37 <andythenorth> redneck form of TDD 18:29:52 <andythenorth> write the example nml first, then have it compile 18:30:00 <andythenorth> shame the docs are so painful to work on :P 18:30:41 <andythenorth> so production_rate_1 production_rate_2 ? 18:30:52 <andythenorth> oh there's no point listing them :P 18:30:55 <andythenorth> there are loads 18:31:17 *** Samu_ has joined #openttd 18:32:20 <frosch123> well, i can't get them to work 18:32:25 <frosch123> i guess i have to read the source 18:32:31 <frosch123> or maybe firs? 18:32:37 <frosch123> is firs now the offical docs? 18:33:42 <andythenorth> I hope not 18:33:49 <andythenorth> I know where the bodies are buried :P 18:33:52 <frosch123> oh, the nml inplementation is also all crap 18:34:05 <frosch123> some vars are deleted, but not all, and none of the new ones were added 18:34:07 <andythenorth> did these vars just get overlooked? 18:35:13 <andythenorth> ouch maybe FIRS is the reference, that's unwise https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/15#issuecomment-471717407 18:35:20 <andythenorth> who writes these things? 18:35:31 <frosch123> well, i'll ignore it then 18:36:01 <andythenorth> did nfo change? 18:36:03 * andythenorth looks 18:36:47 <andythenorth> vars 69-71? 18:37:09 <andythenorth> seems like 18:37:14 <frosch123> find the commit, make a pr to revert it, and tell people to finish their stuff 18:37:57 *** Samu has quit IRC 18:39:24 <andythenorth> that happened when I accidentally became the maintainer :P 18:39:28 <nielsm> I still think the nml docs should be in the nml repository, so docs follow version, and PRs can be rejected until they contain the appropriate doc updates 18:39:31 <andythenorth> I did not like that situation 18:39:46 <andythenorth> I am +1 to that nielsm 18:39:57 <andythenorth> I have done a crapload of wading through docs recently 18:40:06 <andythenorth> I am quite happy to move wiki docs to $something 18:40:30 <andythenorth> but maybe not alone, and maybe it could be somewhat automated 18:43:30 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p3kamjev2?/p3kamjev2 <- glx: how do it call procedures? that doesn't compile 18:45:35 <glx> add () (but I think I didn't try calling in this part) 18:45:57 <frosch123> ah, that works 18:47:45 *** Jack__ has joined #openttd 18:47:47 <glx> oh was miss reading your paste :) 18:48:09 <glx> anyway procedure calls need () 18:48:29 <frosch123> how weird, nml reverses the multiplcation, so it dodges my attempts to destroy registers 18:48:32 <glx> because I think it's clearer that way 18:49:07 <glx> (and that allows some simplifications in the code too) 18:51:31 <glx> oh it's easy to destroy registers, just use any stuff storing data in a ternary op 18:52:10 *** arikover has joined #openttd 18:52:20 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:53:09 <glx> it's implemented as !test*false_block+test*true_block 18:54:47 *** Jack_ has quit IRC 18:55:19 <frosch123> glx: i'll add the test case to your branch 18:55:20 <glx> the reference counting system takes care of registers IIRC 18:55:36 <frosch123> it uses the same registers in the caller as in the calle 18:55:48 <frosch123> so the callee destroys the temporary terms in the caller 18:56:03 <glx> oh, that's something to handle then 18:56:09 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 18:56:17 <frosch123> oh, wait, it doesnt 18:56:28 <frosch123> it just does it differently than expected 18:56:44 <glx> yeah nml often does that 18:57:04 <glx> like the weird construct for a simple param[XX] 18:57:09 <frosch123> it first assigns the registers in the caller, then assigned unused ones in the callee 18:57:18 <frosch123> but that makes little sense if the callee is used multiple times 18:58:07 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 18:58:21 <andythenorth> https://pandoc.org/ 19:01:12 <nielsm> lol the diagram at the bottom 19:03:25 <andythenorth> graphviz innit :) 19:08:04 <andythenorth> I tried a graphviz tech tree https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/iron-horse/docs/html/tech_tree.dot.svg 19:08:06 <andythenorth> doesn't really work 19:08:57 <frosch123> hmm, i know how to fetch a pr, but how do it push to one? 19:10:29 <nielsm> I can never find the documentation on how to make those fetch paths/whatever for PRs so I always just add the other user's repository as a regular remote and pull the branch from there 19:10:37 <nielsm> that also allows me to push directly 19:11:27 <frosch123> ah, i thought i need to push to the pr, but instead i push to the pr author 19:19:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 updated pull request #66: Add: allow use of switches and random switches as procedures https://git.io/JePq0 19:19:39 <frosch123> glx: i added the test case 19:19:56 <frosch123> the usage of + is odd, i expected r 19:20:31 <frosch123> and the register assignment appears wasteful... 19:28:21 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 19:32:30 <nielsm> hm interesting, transport fever 2 has "daylength mod" built in, and even allows to stop the passage of time without stopping the movement of vehicles, cargo and money 19:33:05 <frosch123> i read they added a "stop technology year" 19:33:08 <andythenorth> is it good? 19:33:17 <nielsm> just watching a video right now 19:33:25 <nielsm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_bOW8L-NbU 19:33:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: eddi plays it all the time 19:34:01 <frosch123> compared to ottd it is less flexible, but more detailed 19:34:15 <frosch123> like it forces you to play along cargodest 19:34:19 <nielsm> tf2 is not out yet :) a bunch of "influencers" have received review copies 19:34:20 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 19:34:31 <frosch123> is eddi among them? 19:34:54 <nielsm> probably not? his tf1 streams haven't been massively popular afaik 19:34:56 <nielsm> :) 19:37:28 <andythenorth> I liked peter1138 live coding 19:37:33 <andythenorth> best twitch I've seen 19:37:40 <andythenorth> live openttd was a close second 19:38:01 <andythenorth> also hasn't pikka solved daylength now? 19:38:17 <Wolf01> <nielsm> hm interesting, transport fever 2 has "daylength mod" built in <- there is for the previous one too, you can get 2x, 4x and 8x in the workshop 19:38:39 <nielsm> yes but that's a mod not built in, and it doesn't have slowdown and stop 19:39:08 <Wolf01> BTW, already pre-purchased :> 19:40:02 <frosch123> never pre-order games 19:40:41 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 19:41:30 <Wolf01> I know what I should expect for this one, so purchasing it now or 2 days after release (losing even a 10% discount) it doesn't change a lot 19:41:57 <andythenorth> so why isn't daylength just 'vehicles never expire'? 19:42:53 <nielsm> because it's also "new things aren't introduced" 19:43:06 <nielsm> and other kinds of "the world doesn't change" 19:43:46 <andythenorth> and this thing about reducing cargo amounts 19:43:50 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:43:57 <andythenorth> and making it take longer for vehicles to travel a->b 19:44:10 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:44:32 <nielsm> the daylength in tf2 seems to be solely about the introduction and deprecation of technology 19:44:42 <andythenorth> hmm, if longer travel time a->b is the goal, why not just move a and b further apart? 19:45:07 <andythenorth> maybe OpenTTD scale is the problem, not daylength 19:46:37 * andythenorth checks 19:47:40 <Wolf01> Mmmh, no, I want to play longer with a generation, make trains faster instead 19:47:53 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 19:49:56 <andythenorth> yeah daylength is used to fix scale 19:50:05 <andythenorth> people measure tile size by train travel time 19:50:08 <andythenorth> so that's a thing 19:50:17 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 19:51:40 <andythenorth> daylength 'gives time to play "the whole map' rather than just bits of it' 19:51:42 <andythenorth> but how? 19:52:14 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:53:02 <Wolf01> More money in same time... or you have more time to build a route without having to replace the train when it gets to the other end because 15 years passed 19:53:05 * andythenorth back to tanks 19:53:07 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:53:12 <andythenorth> and bricklink lolz 19:56:57 <glx> [20:19:57] <frosch123> the usage of + is odd, i expected r <-- for the 1C part ? 19:57:14 <frosch123> yes 19:57:32 <glx> I followed the newgrf doc 19:58:36 <glx> "Because callback results are limited to 15 bits, to access the full 32 bit result you can read variable 1C instead (e.g. by and-ing the 7E result with 0 and then adding var. 1C)." 19:58:42 <frosch123> i see, r requires ttdp 2.6, while + works in 2.5 :) 19:59:18 <glx> anyway nml puts r everywhere :) 20:05:17 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 20:06:05 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 20:09:58 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 20:20:31 <milek7> maybe 'daylength' should just at end of the year rewind calendar to beginning of the year, X times ;) 20:21:02 <nielsm> that approach has also been attempted 20:23:24 <nielsm> how about a completely different approach, define the simulation of movement and economy in real time (player's wall clock minutes and seconds) using the current nominal tick rate of 30 ms/tick 20:23:33 <LordAro> if in doubt, it's probably been attempted :p 20:23:58 <nielsm> and then have a separate calendar that only controls technological progress, and the mapping of calendar days to simulation ticks can be adjusted 20:24:11 <nielsm> I think that's more or less what transport fever 2 does 20:24:41 <nielsm> (I saw something in that video where a vehicle model's lifetime was measured in hours and minutes) 20:27:16 <andythenorth> so tech tree date? 20:27:31 <nielsm> yes 20:29:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7845: Add: a TextColour flag to ignore colour changes from strings https://git.io/JeXVx 20:29:54 <nielsm> also if you then speed up the tick rate to 26.66 ms/tick you get very close to 12 minutes per 365 simulation days 20:30:23 <nielsm> so you can pretend one minute = one month 20:31:47 <nielsm> and in turn, two seconds = one day 20:36:17 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 20:38:17 <nielsm> or go with 27.03 ms per tick for actual 2 second days 20:38:30 <andythenorth> and how would that work for realism? 20:38:35 * andythenorth wishes the game didn't have a year 20:38:44 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 20:38:48 <andythenorth> my kids play all kinds of dragon games and sim games with just days or months 20:39:01 <andythenorth> or 'x years since start' 20:39:11 <nielsm> you can then change the passage of calendar time without changing the passage of economy time 20:39:51 <nielsm> the point of changing the length of a tick is just to make the economy time easier to describe in real time terms 20:41:21 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7843: Industry directory cargo filtering https://git.io/JeXwt 20:41:41 <nielsm> so train run costs would become "£5000 per 12 minutes", industry production would become "130 tons per minute" 20:43:24 <nielsm> need to invent a better word for a 12 minute period though, how about "dedumi" as a terrible contraction of deci-duo minute 20:44:44 <andythenorth> :P 20:45:18 <nielsm> or maybe a penter 20:45:24 <nielsm> like a quarter but for five 20:54:47 <andythenorth> so player would change...what setting? :) 20:55:15 <nielsm> that would be a fundamental change, an openttd 2.0 kind of thing :) 21:00:02 <andythenorth> probably fine? 21:00:06 <andythenorth> that 21:00:12 <andythenorth> and new gameplay modes 21:00:22 <andythenorth> and moving all the vehicles and industry to a newgrf abstraction :P 21:00:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7845: Add: a TextColour flag to ignore colour changes from strings https://git.io/JeXwX 21:08:07 <nielsm> the "move all the base game to newgrf" isn't truly possible since most newgrf features are based on the idea of inheritance of some base item 21:08:34 <nielsm> the original base values would still have to be there somewhere 21:08:58 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 21:10:07 <nielsm> anyway, sleep time 21:10:49 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:11:24 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 21:12:08 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:13:33 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 21:15:07 <andythenorth> snowplough time 21:16:35 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 21:18:11 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:22:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 21:33:02 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:35:42 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:41:38 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 21:43:26 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 21:47:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #7843: Industry directory cargo filtering https://git.io/JeXoC 21:53:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7843: Industry directory cargo filtering https://git.io/JeXoR 21:54:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7843: Industry directory cargo filtering https://git.io/JeXou 22:00:50 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:13:39 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 22:16:47 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 22:22:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7817: Feature: Minimap screenshot https://git.io/JeXKO 22:23:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7788: Doc: Convert known_bugs.txt to markdown format https://git.io/JeXKs 22:30:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7800: Easier access for vehicles' group window. https://git.io/JeXKW 22:33:56 *** Samu_ has quit IRC 22:34:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/JeXKa 22:39:46 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:42:22 *** arikover has quit IRC 22:44:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #7843: Industry directory cargo filtering https://git.io/JeXKQ 22:46:59 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 22:48:46 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 22:53:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year https://git.io/JeX6J 23:01:32 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:16:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #7800: Easier access for vehicles' group window. https://git.io/JeX69 23:19:00 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 23:21:28 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 23:24:14 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 23:34:16 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:39:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7800: Easier access for vehicles' group window. https://git.io/JeXi9 23:41:04 <peter1138> CHEESE! 23:41:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7843: Industry directory cargo filtering https://git.io/JeXi5 23:41:10 <peter1138> Although, that was not very good cheese. 23:41:13 <LordAro> gromit! 23:41:20 <peter1138> 1 marmite cheddar bite (okay but not great) 23:41:30 <peter1138> 1 light babybel bite (worse, why did I?) 23:41:50 <peter1138> But, eh, I didn't want to open the Gruyere or the goat's cheese just yet. 23:42:02 *** cHawk has quit IRC 23:45:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:51:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #7843: Industry directory cargo filtering https://git.io/JeXPk 23:51:40 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 23:54:46 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd