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00:01:35 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 00:05:33 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 00:12:41 *** adikt has joined #openttd 00:35:46 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 00:37:42 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 00:44:50 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:59:56 *** peter1138 has quit IRC 01:07:49 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 01:08:08 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd 01:08:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138 01:09:32 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 01:39:45 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 01:41:43 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 02:11:56 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 02:12:35 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 02:13:38 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 02:43:51 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 02:47:03 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 03:17:15 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 03:18:24 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 03:23:26 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:26:52 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:48:38 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 03:49:08 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 04:19:21 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 04:20:31 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 04:28:47 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:38:18 *** glx has quit IRC 04:50:44 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 04:51:13 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 05:21:27 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 05:40:19 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 05:47:29 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 05:48:07 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 06:10:33 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 06:15:04 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 06:45:16 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 06:49:28 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 07:03:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:11:07 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:19:40 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 07:32:06 <andythenorth> yo 07:32:17 <andythenorth> today arrived quite quickly after yesterday 07:32:24 <andythenorth> I would have liked more gap 07:37:14 <peter1138> That happens, especially after beer. 07:38:14 <peter1138> Extra bicycle layers today, it's 0.7 degC apparenntly. 07:38:49 <andythenorth> I have noted the outside 07:38:54 <andythenorth> I don't fancy it 07:38:59 <andythenorth> but school run must happen 07:40:59 <peter1138> I did not have any eggs this morning, so I had a portion of cereal. Same carolies, but carbs instead of protein. What a waste. 07:51:37 <peter1138> Also I just put some beer in the fridge for tonight. 07:51:47 <peter1138> Bye. 08:24:41 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:28:06 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 08:47:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:58:21 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 09:02:11 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 09:19:48 <andythenorth> hmm makefiles 09:24:40 <LordAro> andythenorth: mmmmakefiles 09:24:46 <peter1138> Damn, why does the console require double quotes everywhere? :p 09:25:33 <andythenorth> LordAro: me writing makefiles is an object lesson in cargo culting 09:25:36 <andythenorth> or coding by hope 09:26:25 <andythenorth> I should twitch stream it for lolz 09:26:38 <andythenorth> I find a line that apparently works, then copy + modify it :P 09:33:24 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 09:39:33 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 09:40:03 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:09:47 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 10:10:16 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 10:40:30 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 11:33:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #59: Simplify pillow imports and version detection https://git.io/Je1n4 11:34:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman updated pull request #59: Simplify pillow imports and version detection https://git.io/Jeo5R 11:38:21 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #59: Simplify pillow imports and version detection https://git.io/Je1ng 11:39:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro commented on pull request #59: Simplify pillow imports and version detection https://git.io/Je1n2 11:39:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro approved pull request #59: Simplify pillow imports and version detection https://git.io/Je1na 11:39:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #59: Simplify pillow imports and version detection https://git.io/Jeo5R 11:40:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #65: Fix #57: Check coherency of GRF parameters limits https://git.io/Jei6E 11:40:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro closed issue #57: GRF integer parameters can be given negative values. https://git.io/JeoEa 11:47:09 <andythenorth> busy :) 11:49:57 <LordAro> nah, just noisy 12:02:01 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 12:03:14 <peter1138> Hi. 12:04:10 <andythenorth> so... 12:04:18 <andythenorth> it's that time again 12:11:59 <peter1138> Bit early for me. 12:12:41 <LordAro> defo lunch 12:12:57 <andythenorth> I had cheese on toast 12:13:00 <andythenorth> for a starter 12:21:43 <peter1138> I've got, uhm, a salad. 12:21:49 <peter1138> I made it last night. 12:22:10 <peter1138> Guy next to me has a slice a bread and a pot-pasta thing. Eating at his desk, ew... 12:29:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what a pot-pasta would look like 12:32:16 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 12:33:41 <andythenorth> https://www.google.com/search?q=pot+noodle&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi8kuCAt4_mAhUThlwKHRruAdcQ_AUoAXoECBAQAw&biw=1380&bih=780#imgrc=Go9j_EUHaG9VGM 12:33:54 <andythenorth> https://i.redd.it/yy1mo8fpqjx11.jpg 12:34:17 <peter1138> Well, that's a pot noodle... 12:34:51 <peter1138> But basically the same thing. 12:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, i could imagine pot noodle, but not pot pasta 12:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> pasta is a much wider field than just noodles 12:35:59 <andythenorth> :o 12:36:01 <andythenorth> it is? 12:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> pasta covers things like tortellini and lasagna 12:38:05 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 12:43:42 <andythenorth> supermop_Home: should I observation car? :P https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-duEbG_nH9lc/WR0SGF1a8gI/AAAAAAABkFs/Z4jXNb-ylV0w29D8gKEzjIwFt2XsBUoDACLcB/s1600/The%2BCoronation%2BLNER%2BBlue%2BTrain%2BObservation%2BCoach.JPG 12:43:49 <andythenorth> more pointless trains? o_O 12:48:20 <peter1138> https://www.potnoodle.com/products/pot-pasta.html 12:48:22 <peter1138> I mean... 12:48:36 <peter1138> andythenorth's favourite, Pot Pasta Macaroni Cheese... 12:48:45 <andythenorth> on toast 12:50:16 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Yes 12:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: so they use "noodles" for asian-style and "pasta" for italian-style noodles? 12:52:23 <peter1138> That's standard UK usage, yes. 12:53:21 <peter1138> We tend to refer to lasagne as "lasagne" rather than pasta, but obviously it is pasta. 12:53:39 <andythenorth> FLHerne: yes to pot noodle on toast? 12:53:44 <andythenorth> or yes, more pointless trains? 12:53:54 <FLHerne> Pointless trains, of course 12:54:12 <FLHerne> Pot noodles aren't worth consuming under any circumstances 12:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> probably loads of things in stores today shouldn't actually be consumed 12:55:57 <peter1138> Noodles with bread... because carbs + carbs is a good idea. 12:56:28 * andythenorth tries drawing steam engines without connecting rods 13:03:32 <andythenorth> FLHerne: I haven't got the wheel shapes right yet, but this is not worse eh? (LHS image) https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9541/wheels.png 13:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> surely you need animated rods 13:06:38 <andythenorth> I don't think it's practical 13:06:57 <andythenorth> the compile time and file size are already beyond any sensible limit 13:07:46 <andythenorth> I wondered about cycling a palette to do it :P 13:08:19 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 13:09:13 <andythenorth> oh, UKRS 2 is not animated? :o 13:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> 2 or 2.5? 13:11:03 <andythenorth> 2 13:11:07 <andythenorth> NARS 2.5 is animated 13:11:18 <andythenorth> there are 4 pixels in each wheel which flip 13:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, i used ukrs like once, on a server 13:12:53 <andythenorth> I could probably do an overlay layer 13:12:58 <andythenorth> I have a spare sprite layer 13:13:55 <andythenorth> the NARS wheels just give the impression of movement 13:14:17 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 13:15:59 <andythenorth> oof do I really want this headache? :) 13:16:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i think CETS had animation, at least i seem to remember Oberhümer drawing rods in various configurations 13:17:58 <andythenorth> I'd have to do it for large-wheeled electric engines as well 13:18:12 <andythenorth> but the layers might all be used there, for pantographs 13:18:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, electric engines with 2 sets of rodded wheels, where each set has a different offset 13:18:38 <andythenorth> nope, 1 free layer 13:18:50 <andythenorth> garrats and mallets also :P 13:19:28 <andythenorth> well it doesn't have to be a layer, I could generate the wheel sprites directly onto the engine sprite 13:19:51 <andythenorth> I already generate cargo, pantographs and opening doors :P 13:20:06 <andythenorth> but it will double the count of realsprites for steam engines 13:20:22 <andythenorth> or quadruple if I do a full 4 angles 13:20:26 <andythenorth> rotations / angles /s 13:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't simple copy-paste be easier? 13:21:13 <andythenorth> not when the shape changes 13:21:32 <andythenorth> replacing a pattern of 4 pixels in a wheel is trivial 13:21:51 <andythenorth> less work to automate than do manually 13:22:16 <andythenorth> I just think it will kill compile time further 13:23:36 *** Maarten has quit IRC 13:23:47 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 13:29:53 <andythenorth> oh dear, this idea has grown to 'inevitable' :P 13:29:58 * andythenorth regrets in advance 13:37:38 * andythenorth still regrets 13:40:08 <andythenorth> "For that, make the animation use a number of frames, which is a power of two, i.e. 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, ... frames, and then use the lower n bits of motion_counter." 13:40:08 <andythenorth> can't I just mod(2) or mod(4) 13:42:45 <andythenorth> maybe not 13:42:51 <FLHerne> andythenorth: You really don't need animation 13:43:15 <FLHerne> UKRS2 doesn't have it, and it looks fine so long as you can only barely see the rods in the first place 13:43:39 <FLHerne> Yes, that pic looks better 13:44:14 <andythenorth> the engine looks less sleek, but more powerful 13:44:29 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 13:45:34 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 13:46:32 <andythenorth> I have a test of animation 13:46:35 <andythenorth> not sure it adds much 13:47:16 <andythenorth> to actually see it will require high contrast rods 13:47:24 <andythenorth> which we've established don't look great 13:49:54 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:53:30 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9542/animation_train.m4v 13:53:35 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ :) 13:53:46 <andythenorth> steam engine wheel animation....or not? 13:53:57 <andythenorth> FLHerne: ^^^ 13:54:34 <FLHerne> Nah 13:55:09 <snail_UES_> why not? 13:55:23 <snail_UES_> if you don’t do animation, then at least remove the rods 13:55:40 <snail_UES_> it’s so silly to see a steamer run with motionless rods... 13:55:49 <andythenorth> yes, proposed change is no rods, or animated not-quite rods 13:56:21 <andythenorth> this is not a good look https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/223630545724_/Ertl-Thomas-Friends-Railway-Train-Tank-Engine.jpg 13:56:34 <FLHerne> snail_UES_: "so silly to see a steamer run with motionless rods" was what I complained about in the first place 13:57:07 <andythenorth> I suspect I end up animating :P 13:57:17 <andythenorth> it's only a couple of pixels, 2 frames seems to be enough 13:57:18 <snail_UES_> tbh I think animation doesn’t look bad in my NG steamers 13:57:20 <FLHerne> But IMO non-animated, low-contrast rods look better than animatedd high-contrast ones 13:57:33 <snail_UES_> 2 frames??? dude, put 4 13:57:40 <FLHerne> OTTD's animation is just too coarse, they flail around all over the place 13:57:50 <andythenorth> it looks very wrong in the vehicle info window 13:57:52 <snail_UES_> it depends on how you draw them 13:57:57 <andythenorth> it doesn't seem to redraw reliably 13:58:01 <FLHerne> More frames would help, but then it would be huge 13:58:12 <snail_UES_> huh? you can always have fixed sprites in the vehicle info window 13:58:15 <FLHerne> andythenorth: There's definitely a middle ground that works 13:58:25 <snail_UES_> I only put animated sprites in the game window, nowhere else 13:58:28 <andythenorth> ok 13:58:34 <FLHerne> One day I must stop singing the praises of UKRS2, but that is not this day :P 13:58:57 <andythenorth> it's fine, UKRS2 is a high water mark 13:58:59 <snail_UES_> I was thinking about using 6 frames for large steamers, but that’d be too complex coding-wise 13:59:38 <snail_UES_> but anyway yes, if I had to choose between 2 frames and no animation, I’d choose no animation 13:59:56 <andythenorth> 2 frames doesn't look great at 30mph 14:00:03 <andythenorth> it's ok for 100mph 14:00:20 <snail_UES_> at 100mph it won’t matter anyway... 14:00:23 <andythenorth> I could do 4 or 8 14:00:25 <andythenorth> but eh 14:00:30 <snail_UES_> 4 :) 14:00:51 <snail_UES_> and only in the game window ( “viewport” ) 14:01:05 <andythenorth> so FLHerne I'll change to roughly this? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9541/wheels.png 14:01:12 <andythenorth> it doesn't preclude animating later 14:01:21 <andythenorth> but deferring that is good :P 14:01:30 <FLHerne> +1 14:01:35 <snail_UES_> looks good in the depot window 14:01:58 <andythenorth> ok 14:04:17 <snail_UES_> also, with stacked sprites, you can only redraw the wheels and rods for each animation frame 14:04:23 <andythenorth> yes 14:04:24 <snail_UES_> you don’t have to copy over the entire engine 14:04:30 <andythenorth> I would just automate the pixels 14:04:41 <andythenorth> it's almost no work 14:04:43 <snail_UES_> hmm 14:05:01 <snail_UES_> I actually prefer to draw each frame myself 14:05:02 <andythenorth> false colour -> replace 14:05:20 <andythenorth> each to their own :) 14:05:23 <snail_UES_> I mean there’s more than just the rods connecting the wheels… one can have fun with the distribution mechanism as well 14:05:25 <snail_UES_> but anyway :p 14:09:35 <snail_UES_> you can also code your vehicle to display motionless rods only when stopped 14:10:08 <snail_UES_> that could be an alternative if you don’t want to animate… just remove the rods as soon as speed goes above 0 14:14:46 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9543/non_animation_train.m4v 14:15:46 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 14:15:55 <andythenorth> maybe I should do something about the cylinders ^ :P 14:16:04 <andythenorth> or is it all fine? 14:16:11 * andythenorth is not short of 'todo' list :P 14:17:30 <snail_UES_> not sure, they do stand out compared to the wheels 14:17:55 <snail_UES_> probably you might want to harmonize the shades of grey between the cylinders and the wheels 14:18:38 <snail_UES_> I mean they should be a bit brigthier than the wheels, since they protrude further outside of the chassis, but still... 14:18:44 <andythenorth> I think they stand out too much 14:18:51 <snail_UES_> yeah kind of 14:19:15 <snail_UES_> even if you decide not to automate, you don’t have to paint your wheels *that* dawk 14:19:17 <snail_UES_> *dark 14:23:47 *** zvxb has joined #openttd 14:24:13 *** adikt has quit IRC 14:27:00 <snail_UES_> *animate, not automate :p 14:31:12 <peter1138> Shall I spend £230 on a pair of BT headphones? 14:32:37 <LordAro> peter1138: does seem a bit much 14:33:05 <SpComb> totally worth it 14:33:45 <SpComb> I went to a store with a bunch of headphones in a display case with a nice sofa to sit down and listen on to buy mine 14:34:00 <SpComb> could have got them for quite a bit cheaper on amazon, but that's not worth it 14:35:11 <peter1138> 1000XM3, yeah? 14:35:42 <peter1138> I tried them on in PCWorld, felt comfortable, but nothing was set up there to actually test them. And no other comparable models to, er, compare. 14:35:45 <SpComb> this was some time ago so I went with the older sennheiser momentum 14:35:54 <andythenorth> I had some £80 bluetooth headphones 14:35:56 <andythenorth> I was well happy 14:36:08 <peter1138> I suspect the £80 would be enough, tbh. 14:36:10 <andythenorth> but that was the most I wanted to pay :P 14:36:39 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:38:57 *** cHawk has quit IRC 14:39:01 <peter1138> Heh, current Sennheiser Momentum are... £350 o_O 14:44:40 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 14:45:12 <andythenorth> just 15 more trains to change the rods on :P 14:50:30 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 14:50:44 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 14:51:40 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 14:59:02 <andythenorth> 13 15:01:17 <zvxb> that's the worst part of the game 15:01:23 <zvxb> fixing vehicles :/ 15:05:43 <peter1138> Service at depot? 15:15:21 <FLHerne> zvxb: You can always turn breakdowns off in the settings 15:21:53 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 15:52:43 <milek7> btw. situation when INDUSTRYBEH_CANCLOSE_LASTINSTANCE is disabled seems already fishy 15:52:46 <andythenorth> 7 trains to fix :P 15:52:53 <milek7> because it cannot know if it the last one and closure requests will be ignored 15:53:17 <milek7> so when it repeatedly requests closure it cannot modify production at the same time 15:53:18 <andythenorth> for newgrf? 15:53:40 <milek7> yes 15:53:45 <milek7> but this is just nitpicking ;P 16:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> it looks very wrong in the vehicle info window <-- you can check extra_callback_info1 for that 16:08:55 <andythenorth> I could 16:09:03 <andythenorth> I'm curious why it lags so much in the paint 16:09:19 <andythenorth> but also I deleted the animation so eh :) 16:11:33 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 16:23:19 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:24:42 <andythenorth> 3 trains to fix 16:24:44 <andythenorth> oh 16:24:48 <andythenorth> narrow gauge also :( 16:38:07 <andythenorth> FLHerne: do these NG steamers have the same visual issue? https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/iron-horse/docs/html/trains.html#cheese_bug 16:38:36 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 16:41:45 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 16:48:15 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 16:51:05 * andythenorth repaints them 16:56:47 <andythenorth> FLHerne: all done :P https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/iron-horse/docs/html/trains.html 16:57:40 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Nice 16:58:00 <andythenorth> some of the steam engines still have the copy-paste appearance problem :P 16:58:08 <andythenorth> especially with only 1CC 17:04:09 <FLHerne> I notice that nmlc will compile files without a grf {} block 17:04:43 <FLHerne> Is that useful for concatenating output files as part of overcomplicated build systems? 17:05:20 <FLHerne> Oh, maybe I did that wrong 17:06:32 <FLHerne> I didn't, it does 17:07:28 <andythenorth> it can't resolve strings correctly in concatenations 17:10:47 <FLHerne> Ok 17:11:22 <andythenorth> I suspect that 'make nml faster' might have more yield than partial compiling :) 17:11:29 <FLHerne> So...is there any valid reason why it should do that? 17:11:36 <andythenorth> OTOH, C++ tends to be partially compiled? 17:11:51 <andythenorth> I'm not sure how strings work internally 17:12:14 <andythenorth> the attempts by me and Eddi to provide partial compiles were hacks 17:12:30 <andythenorth> in principle, resolving all the strings is just some kind of symbol table? 17:12:38 <FLHerne> Sorry, what said originally was confusing 17:12:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:13:42 <FLHerne> nmlc will compile files without a grf {} block; is there any valid reason why someone might wish to do this, or should I make it complain about that? 17:14:05 <andythenorth> I'm not aware of any reason, but I would defer to frosch :P 17:14:49 <FLHerne> The resulting grf doesn't even appear in OTTD's grf list, so I think it would only be useful as part of some weird process 17:15:13 <FLHerne> I experimented with the parser a bit 17:15:37 <FLHerne> You can't get any more than a 2x speedup using PLY + CPython 17:16:01 <FLHerne> Without doing bits of the parsing in parallel somehow 17:16:14 <FLHerne> I think PyPy is definitely the way to go there 17:17:19 <FLHerne> tbh, I don't care that much about performance, that's a problem for you people with absurdly oversized grfs :P 17:18:29 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 17:18:42 <andythenorth> how much faster was pypy? 17:18:44 <FLHerne> Mostly I want to try and sort the internal state out better, so I can programatically edit the AST at various stages without it all going wrong 17:19:06 <FLHerne> I think it was 2.5x faster overall, and 5x faster for parsing specifically 17:19:18 <andythenorth> that's worth me installing pypy 17:19:24 <andythenorth> let's see if I can get a build :P 17:20:21 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 17:33:14 <andythenorth> FLHerne: presumably pillow built for you in pypy? 17:33:25 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Yes 17:33:29 <andythenorth> hmm 17:34:01 <FLHerne> [PyPy 7.2.0 with GCC 9.2.0] on linux 17:34:03 <FLHerne> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. 17:34:04 <FLHerne> i>>>> import PIL 17:34:06 <FLHerne> >>>> PIL.PILLOW_VERSION 17:34:07 <FLHerne> '6.2.1' 17:34:26 <andythenorth> looks like zlib is broken for me 17:34:29 <andythenorth> oof :D 17:34:50 <FLHerne> (I modified the `python-pillow` pkgbuild from Arch into `pypy3-pillow`, then built and installed that) 17:41:22 <andythenorth> fixed it, mac issues :P 17:43:53 <andythenorth> oof 17:43:54 <andythenorth> pkg_resources.DistributionNotFound: The 'Pillow>=5.2' distribution was not found and is required by nml 17:43:57 <andythenorth> more things 17:44:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 17:44:18 <zvxb> what programming language do i need to learn to make openttd plugins? 17:44:36 *** zvxb has left #openttd 17:44:36 *** zvxb has joined #openttd 17:45:04 <FLHerne> zvxb: https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial 17:45:47 <zvxb> thanks! 17:46:50 <andythenorth> wow 17:46:54 <andythenorth> I've got nmlc in one shell that works 17:46:59 <andythenorth> and another shell that doesn' 17:47:01 <andythenorth> doesn't 17:47:09 <andythenorth> path to both is the same 17:47:11 <andythenorth> I love computing 17:47:12 <Arveen> use the working shell then ? :D 17:47:49 <FLHerne> Ok, more experiments 17:48:01 * andythenorth uses 'source' again :P 17:48:05 <FLHerne> Rendering docs is, for some reason, 4x slower with pypy than cpython 17:48:18 <andythenorth> which project? 17:48:24 <FLHerne> FIRS 4 17:48:47 <FLHerne> nmlc step is still faster 17:48:58 <andythenorth> chameleon might be slower on pypy 17:49:07 <andythenorth> oh 17:49:12 <andythenorth> I've now run out of file handles :( 17:49:18 <andythenorth> [Errno 24] Too many open files 17:49:31 <FLHerne> I guess because doc-rendering doesn't involve using the same codepaths repeatedly, so the JIT doesn't get used much 17:49:56 <FLHerne> Why do you persist in using macOS anyway? :P 17:49:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 17:50:04 <FLHerne> 10.4 was nice 17:50:32 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 17:50:44 <FLHerne> But everything I hear says it's kept the walled-garden annoyances without the ease-of-use 17:51:57 <andythenorth> I considered switching, but I'm not prepared to change habits 17:52:11 <andythenorth> iOS is horrible 17:55:39 <andythenorth> ok so for Iron Horse pasrsing is 4x faster with pypy 17:55:50 <andythenorth> but total build time is 1m25s instead 1m6s 17:57:40 <andythenorth> nml time 20s with pypy3 17:57:49 <andythenorth> 43s with py3.5 17:59:37 <andythenorth> let's try py3.8 18:00:00 * andythenorth considers a makefile that makes use of multiple python versions :P 18:00:03 <andythenorth> other people would hate me 18:01:45 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:01:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:04:11 <andythenorth> 37s nml time with py3.8 18:06:00 <andythenorth> seems I have written invalid syntax for python 3.8 :D 18:11:33 <andythenorth> also something has changed in multiprocessing pool :P 18:14:21 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 18:32:34 * andythenorth learns a lesson about putting things inside main() :( 18:36:39 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 18:44:35 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 18:54:25 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 18:58:58 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 19:13:24 <andythenorth> ouch 19:17:07 <andythenorth> for part of my compile.... 19:17:23 <andythenorth> python3.5 16 pool workers: 12s 19:17:37 <andythenorth> python3.8 16 pool workers: 29s 19:17:48 <andythenorth> python3.8 1 pool works: 24s :P 19:17:49 <andythenorth> oops 19:24:39 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 19:31:04 <Samu> got a crash with 1.10-beta1 19:31:42 <Samu> https://imgur.com/L6JhwUp 19:32:13 <LordAro> Samu: doesn't look familiar, you know where the bug reports go :) 19:32:30 <Samu> kdtree still crashing? 19:32:33 <LordAro> see if you can reproduce by loading the previous autosave 19:32:49 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:33:32 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:39:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7847: kdtree crash report https://git.io/Je1Eh 19:39:52 <andythenorth> 9 seconds to import a module? 19:39:54 <andythenorth> hmm 19:40:02 <Samu> i wasnt doing autosaves... :( 19:40:14 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 19:40:41 <andythenorth> takes 1.6s in python3.5 19:40:49 <andythenorth> that's....exciting 19:41:34 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:41:42 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:41:47 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:42:49 <Samu> assert(next != INVALID_NODE); // node must exist somewhere and must be found before a leaf is reached 19:44:27 <Samu> i restarted the game from the save, let's see if it crashes again 19:45:04 <LordAro> needs someone to decode the .dmp file for the crash reports to be even vaguely helpful 19:45:18 <LordAro> the assert on it's own is just "something bad happened" with no further information 19:50:37 <TrueBrain> so, is OpenTTD having a Black Friday deal? 19:52:19 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 19:58:45 <glx> oups opened wrong crash.dmp 19:59:06 <LordAro> TrueBrain: buy one get one free? 19:59:31 <andythenorth> 3 newgrf for price of one 20:00:10 <andythenorth> oh nmlc triggers syntax warnings with python3.8 also 20:00:13 <andythenorth> not just me then :P 20:00:40 <glx> visible in regression check ? 20:02:01 <andythenorth> nope 20:02:33 <glx> maybe because the regression makefile hides them 20:02:33 <andythenorth> create_effect_cef15a0710dfd6dcdde63e069c2afef9.py:131: SyntaxWarning: "is not" with a literal. Did you mean "!="? 20:02:38 <andythenorth> and L332 as well 20:02:50 <LordAro> interesting 20:03:36 <dwfreed> nice 20:04:08 <glx> displaying warnings/errors during regression check seems to be a good idea 20:04:52 <LordAro> assuming that bit is actually run during the tests :p 20:05:09 <dwfreed> having a second pass of regression check that sets warnings to errors is also a good idea :) 20:05:14 <dwfreed> makes it easier to spot 20:05:28 <dwfreed> (let's be real, nobody looks at logs unless there's failures) 20:05:37 <LordAro> might as well make it fail on first pass then 20:06:14 <glx> or just fails at the end if stderr is not empty 20:06:41 <dwfreed> you can have the second pass be non-blocking, as sometimes warnings are not resolvable/not easily resolvable 20:10:27 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 20:11:28 <glx> hmm I don't see anything hiding stuff in the makefile 20:11:54 <andythenorth> hmm something has changed in python multiprocessing in 3.7 or 3.8 20:12:00 <andythenorth> and I can't see changelogs for it :P 20:12:15 <andythenorth> pool and map() are now insanely slow 20:12:17 <glx> (except the silly multilines command lines) 20:13:06 <glx> I don't understand why it's not 2 commands 20:15:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7847: Crash - Assertion failed at line 213 of src\core\kdtree.hpp: next != INVALID_NODE https://git.io/Je1Eh 20:15:41 <glx> downloading symbols was the longest part 20:16:18 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 20:17:49 <glx> actual removal of a ghost station I'd say 20:22:19 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 20:24:19 <Samu> got a crash again 20:24:26 <Samu> crashed in 1961 this time 20:46:31 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 20:48:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7847: Crash - Assertion failed at line 213 of src\core\kdtree.hpp: next != INVALID_NODE https://git.io/Je1Eh 20:51:40 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 20:55:00 <glx> indeed the trace has some similarities 20:58:05 <Samu> testing a 3rd time 20:59:09 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 20:59:56 <dwfreed> andythenorth: the cpython repository has been converted to git and is available on github; you can view all the changelog you want 20:59:58 <Samu> waiting for 1961 https://i.imgur.com/hDdn5vj.png 21:00:02 <glx> if it's repetable easily you can add your savegame to the report 21:00:11 <Samu> that's what I'm trying to see 21:00:29 <Samu> the savegame is the crash.sav with a restart on the console 21:00:46 <andythenorth> I found a diff already :P 21:00:47 <Samu> and waiting 30~years... 21:00:54 <andythenorth> but it was large :P 21:01:06 <glx> hmm but crash.sav is not always a good starting point as data may be corrupted 21:02:04 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:02:22 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:02:31 <nielsm> remember crash.sav is generated at the time of the crash, _after_the crash has occurred 21:02:48 <nielsm> it won't necessarily show the thing that caused the crash if the crash is caused by something being removed 21:03:09 <Samu> i used the crash.sav to restart 21:03:19 <Samu> hmm 21:03:38 <glx> the only sure thing known from crash.dmp is that a ghost station was cleaned 21:03:58 <Samu> which one? can you tell me which tile? 21:04:12 <glx> impossible to get that info from the dump 21:04:56 <glx> that's why a savegame from before the crash is useful 21:07:04 <nielsm> maybe the kdtree operations should be instrumented further in some way, e.g. a buffer to store some additional info about thing being acted on and why 21:07:14 <Samu> fastforwarding in debug mode 21:07:16 <nielsm> that the caller is responsible for filling 21:08:03 <Samu> could the problem be related to fast forward? 21:08:10 <nielsm> really shouldn't 21:08:17 <nielsm> as everything runs in lock step 21:08:29 <Samu> hmm ok gonna fire another 1.10 for testing 21:08:36 <Samu> without running ff 21:09:40 <LordAro> "could it be the thing?" "almost certainly not" "ok i'm going to try doing the thing" 21:09:59 <Samu> :) 21:11:16 <nielsm> fast forward mode can generally show two classes of issues: framerate (video renderer) things, and link graph recalculation delay handling things 21:12:42 <glx> but this crash is not affected by FF 21:12:55 <nielsm> precisely 21:13:07 <nielsm> do not waste your time trying without ff, it will show nothing useful 21:13:11 <glx> it's during the standard tile loop 21:13:21 <glx> well game state loop 21:15:10 <Samu> its 1958, didn't crash at 1957 21:15:23 <Samu> waiting for 1961 21:21:54 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 21:22:36 <Samu> crashed 4th feb 1961 again 21:22:41 <Samu> so it's reproducible 21:23:12 <Samu> but waiting from 1935 to 1961 is boring in debug mode 21:24:21 <glx> enable autosaves 21:24:43 <Samu> oh, good idea, but that might affect AIs 21:24:45 *** natmac[m] has quit IRC 21:24:47 <Samu> still gonna try 21:25:21 <nielsm> but of course the thing that triggers the bug might happen earlier so the bad state won't necessarily be kept in a save 21:25:43 <glx> it's probably the result of an AI action 21:26:58 <Samu> weird, im getting another crash, now it's linkgraph 21:27:07 <Samu> probably result of a broken save 21:27:24 <Samu> load that save, wait 3 days, and it crashes 21:27:46 <glx> expected if it's a crash.sav 21:28:12 <Samu> ah, ok then 21:28:54 <glx> I think there's an option to store all commands in a file 21:29:16 <LordAro> part of desync debugging, right? 21:29:24 <glx> yes 21:29:39 <glx> that could be useful to know when the station is deleted 21:29:40 <Samu> shipai was removing docks, i think 21:29:54 <Samu> snakeai was stuck for years 21:30:06 <Samu> so, if it's something it's shipai 21:32:26 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 21:45:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 21:59:40 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:02:38 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 22:06:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 22:12:29 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 22:21:43 <andythenorth> oh this is interesting 22:21:57 <andythenorth> I've got a module which is 0.3s to run directly 22:22:02 <andythenorth> but 1.3s to import 22:22:07 <andythenorth> that's some overhead eh? 22:22:35 <andythenorth> especially as I import it often 22:23:12 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/blob/master/src/iron_horse.py 22:23:20 <andythenorth> it has some bad practices in it, no main() etc 22:24:21 <andythenorth> " Note that loading a module the first time may be expensive because of the one time initialization of the module, but loading a module multiple times is virtually free, costing only a couple of dictionary lookups" 22:24:28 <andythenorth> no longer seems to be true for python 3.8 22:25:40 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 22:26:58 *** Smedles has quit IRC 22:32:56 *** arikover has joined #openttd 22:36:35 *** arikover has quit IRC 22:42:09 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 22:42:42 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 22:44:23 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 22:48:04 *** Flo has joined #openttd 22:48:20 *** Smedles has quit IRC 22:48:33 <Flo> hi? 22:49:13 <Flo> Is Andy here? 22:54:18 <Samu> didn't crash via autosave t.t 22:54:35 <Flo> oof? 22:54:44 <Flo> im trying to compile fork of firs 22:55:03 <Flo> but I get some errors 22:55:07 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 22:55:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] xsrvmy opened issue #7848: Cannot scroll when building on Android https://git.io/Je12F 22:55:34 <andythenorth> yo 22:55:45 <Flo> hi :) 22:56:38 <Flo> someone told me you knew a thing or two about doing that and told me to come here to ask you :) 22:59:03 <andythenorth> foo? 23:00:05 <Flo> foo? 23:03:37 <Flo> idk if that tells you anything but... 23:03:43 <Flo> i get something like this: 23:03:44 <Flo> process_begin: CreateProcess(NULL, bin/git-info --num-id --version, ...) failed. 23:05:07 <glx> missing git ? 23:06:01 <LordAro> that's an unusual error message 23:06:09 <milek7> it seems to try start python script with CreateProcess? 23:06:29 <Flo> i never did python or make before...so i dont really know... 23:07:07 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:07:40 <LordAro> Flo: unlikely to be a question andy can answer anyway :p 23:07:51 <Flo> oh :c 23:07:53 <milek7> GIT_INFO = bin/git-info 23:08:01 <milek7> try GIT_INFO = python3 bin/git-info 23:08:08 <milek7> and ensure python3 is in $PATH 23:08:32 <glx> this suggestion makes sense 23:08:32 <LordAro> milek7: if python3 was in PATH, presumably there'd be no issues starting bin/git-info ? 23:08:42 <glx> not on windows 23:08:54 <glx> shebang is not a thing on windows 23:08:55 <LordAro> oh, yes 23:09:03 <LordAro> pure windows environment would have trouble with it 23:09:12 <LordAro> ...but you're running make? 23:09:12 <Flo> im on windows 23:09:16 <Flo> yes 23:09:52 <glx> CreateProcess runs as a windows process 23:09:56 <glx> I think 23:10:12 <LordAro> CreateProcess is the windows syscall for creating processes 23:10:27 <LordAro> Flo: how are you running make? what's your environment? 23:10:51 <glx> maybe just gnuwin32 make 23:11:14 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:11:15 <glx> so make working in cmd/powershell 23:11:31 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 23:11:44 <LordAro> mm, maybe 23:11:55 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 23:11:55 <glx> I think in mingw it should work fine 23:12:01 <LordAro> yeah 23:12:45 <glx> anyway git-info just prints "1 1 1 1" it seems :) 23:12:58 <glx> (just looking at the code on github) 23:13:15 <Flo> I just changed something 23:13:19 <Flo> i now get make: bin/git-info: Command not found 23:17:34 <glx> try REPO_INFO = $(shell $(PYTHON) $(GIT_INFO) --num-id --version) at line 29 23:17:49 <glx> (based on original firs repo) 23:19:06 <Flo> how do I do that? sorry if I seem dumb 23:19:22 <glx> hmm probably better to do GIT_INFO = "$(PYTHON) bin/git-info" on line 10 23:19:43 <Flo> in makefile? 23:19:47 <glx> yes 23:20:11 <Flo> alright 23:20:47 <Flo> oh 23:20:50 <glx> same on the following lines too 23:20:54 <Flo> looks like that made a difference 23:20:59 <Flo> alright :) 23:21:54 <glx> quotes are important :) 23:22:03 <Flo> yeah ive put them 23:22:07 <Flo> i now get /bin/sh: bin/git-info: No such file or directory 23:27:11 <glx> what is your command line ? cmd, powershell or mingw ? 23:28:18 <Flo> i get the same error with mingw and cmd 23:28:35 <glx> ok I clone firs repo to try locally 23:29:20 <glx> will be easier than random guessing :) 23:29:28 <Flo> prob :) 23:29:46 <Flo> is git a program or something? 23:30:21 <glx> git is a program, but in this case bin/git-info is just a python script 23:31:24 <glx> hmm it's a huge repo 23:31:38 <FLHerne> glx: Lots of pixels :P 23:31:51 <FLHerne> glx: --depth=1 is smaller if you don't care about history 23:31:57 <glx> 618KB/s will take time 23:34:59 <Flo> i might not have git-info? 23:35:08 <glx> it's included in the repo 23:35:19 <Flo> in what repo? 23:35:25 <glx> it's a firs file 23:35:29 <Flo> oh... 23:37:23 <Samu> gotta go, cyas 23:37:29 <Flo> seeya 23:40:44 <glx> ok need to install some libs it seems 23:41:15 <glx> but running make in mingw works 23:41:52 <glx> well it fails but not because of git-info 23:42:08 *** supermop_work_ has quit IRC 23:42:33 <Flo> i just ditn Florence@Flo-s-Laptop /c/Users/Florence/Downloads/firs-masterf/firs-master/bin 23:42:33 <Flo> $ git-info 23:42:42 <Flo> however git-info is in that folder 23:42:49 <glx> ./git-info 23:43:11 <glx> current dir is never in the path 23:43:16 <LordAro> well, very rarely 23:43:35 <LordAro> unlike native windows (like cmd, powershell), where it is 23:43:44 <glx> not on powershell 23:43:50 <LordAro> fair 23:43:55 <glx> which is a good thing I think 23:44:19 <Flo> how do I solve this? 23:44:46 <glx> in bin just type "./git-info" 23:44:54 <glx> it should work 23:45:41 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:46:23 <glx> hmm I should probably have skiped graphviz install 23:47:57 <Flo> Florence@Flo-s-Laptop /c/Users/Florence/Downloads/firs-masterf/firs-master/bin 23:47:57 <Flo> $ ./git-info 23:48:19 <Flo> ./usr/bin/env: python3: No such file or directory 23:48:29 <glx> ah 23:48:50 <glx> so no python, nor python3 from mingw command line I guess 23:49:09 <Flo> i removed the dot 23:49:13 <Flo> i get sh: /git-info: No such file or directory 23:49:18 *** supermop_work_ has joined #openttd 23:49:42 <glx> and if you type "python3 git-info" ? 23:50:20 <Flo> sh: python3: command not found 23:50:22 <Flo> however 23:50:30 <Flo> $ python git-info 23:50:30 <Flo> 1 1 1 1 23:50:39 <Flo> python instead python3 seems to work 23:50:53 <glx> python --version 23:51:13 <Flo> Python 3.8.0 23:51:22 <glx> yes it's the good one 23:52:16 <LordAro> curious how you don't have a python3 executable 23:52:28 <Flo> idk... 23:52:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:52:48 <glx> yeah I have both python and python3 on mingw (and they are the same) 23:53:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 23:58:08 <glx> but maybe it's because I have python2 installed too