Log for #openttd on 26th December 2019:
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00:00:04  <nielsm> and maybe have a command for the GS to optionally trigger the end-game screen showing all final scores
00:00:37  <frosch> i wonder whether some GS would want to define a plot into the future
00:00:46  <nielsm> could be
00:00:57  <frosch> "this is the economy forecast, please adjust accordingly"
00:01:01  <nielsm> "keep X value within Y parameters"
00:01:06  <_dp_> if I wanted to plot anything it would be something like this:
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00:01:17  <_dp_> though to do it ingame is tmwftlb
00:01:59  <frosch> they are not per company, are they?
00:02:43  <frosch> hmm... though economy forecast makes no sense "per company"
00:02:50  <_dp_> everything is for one company, there is a dropdown on top to chose company
00:03:17  <_dp_> comparing two companies is rarely useful imo
00:03:50  <_dp_> well, I guess it is for special events with many companies like this
00:04:35  <frosch> why has V 3 companies?
00:06:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Qwest8K commented on issue #6566: Very long loading of the maximum "zoom out" level in 4K resolution
00:06:30  <_dp_> no idea xD
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00:11:55  <nielsm> imma sleep and dream about graphs and stuff
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01:10:36  <Pikka> moin
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07:49:53  <andythenorth> o/
07:50:11  <andythenorth> Pikka: it's probably a valid result :)
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09:36:29  <andythenorth> well
09:42:33  * LordAro boxes andythenorth
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09:46:13  <andythenorth> fanks
09:49:43  <nielsm> morning...
10:00:50  <andythenorth> o/
10:09:31  <LordAro> did everyone have a merry wintermass?
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10:14:52  <nielsm> food was eaten, at the very least
10:26:17  <Samu> hello
10:27:15  <LordAro> nielsm: that's 75% of it, i'm pretty sure
10:30:11  <Samu> dang, as I expected... water level skew the results
10:31:13  <Samu> created a 90% water map
10:31:35  <Samu> that's already 90% of the map below snowline
10:33:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #116: Various of fixes in preparation of running this Docker on AWS
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10:42:04  <Pikka> maybe andythenorth... maybe :)
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10:44:51  <hythlodaeus> hello
10:55:23  <Pikka> hello
10:55:56  <Pikka> andythenorth, either way it's a GOOD FEATURE... makes the ai use express locos on slow wagons much less :)
10:57:21  <hythlodaeus> which feature?
10:58:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #116: Various of fixes in preparation of running this Docker on AWS
10:59:06  <Pikka> giving my AI a malus to using fast locos with slow wagons, hythlodaeus
10:59:37  <Samu>
10:59:42  <Samu> here's what I got atm
11:00:00  <Samu> count tiles above water level
11:00:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro opened pull request #12: Announce tags when created
11:01:59  <hythlodaeus> Pikka: which AI specifically?
11:02:22  <Pikka> CivilAI
11:02:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #116: Various of fixes in preparation of running this Docker on AWS
11:03:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #116: Various of fixes in preparation of running this Docker on AWS
11:03:58  <hythlodaeus> i see
11:05:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #116: Various of fixes in preparation of running this Docker on AWS
11:05:27  <TrueBrain> wow, that is spammy ..
11:06:07  <LordAro> tis a bit
11:06:27  <LordAro> and there's only 4 comments on this review :p
11:07:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #116: Various of fixes in preparation of running this Docker on AWS
11:09:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #12: Announce tags when created
11:10:18  <Samu> im unsure if I like the result
11:10:46  <Samu> map is 90% water, max height generated was 28 on alpinist
11:10:57  <Samu> snowline height was autodetermined to be at 3
11:11:18  <TrueBrain> LordAro: "TypeError: 'dict_items' object is not subscriptable" :P
11:12:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro commented on pull request #12: Announce tags when created
11:12:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro commented on pull request #12: Announce tags when created
11:12:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #116: Various of fixes in preparation of running this Docker on AWS
11:12:43  <LordAro> TrueBrain: turn it into a list first!
11:12:50  <LordAro> but yeah, probably worse overall
11:13:53  <TrueBrain> I am honestly not sure
11:14:29  <TrueBrain> hmm ... can we filter on telling about branches yes/no ..
11:14:56  <TrueBrain> as I agree with you that it works for OpenTTD
11:15:00  <TrueBrain> it doesn't work for website, I think
11:16:00  <andythenorth> Pikka: well I like that it did it
11:16:07  <andythenorth> but it's not making any money this way
11:16:25  <andythenorth> it builds them, then scraps them :)
11:16:26  <Pikka> no
11:16:33  <andythenorth> the AI is quite good at making money otherwise
11:16:39  <TrueBrain> LordAro: if we split it in tag_created and branch_created, we can have .dorpsgek.yml filter on it
11:16:45  <TrueBrain> so we can say when to announce which?
11:17:08  <LordAro> could work, aye
11:17:15  <andythenorth> so is it weird?
11:17:17  <LordAro> depends how generic we want to be :)
11:17:50  <andythenorth> Horse has Coal Hopper even when coal cargo is not available
11:17:53  <TrueBrain> fair; but I think it would be spammy how it is now for a few of our projects
11:18:02  <TrueBrain> I can already head the comments: WHY IS IT TALKING ABOUT THIS :P
11:18:05  <andythenorth> ^^^ should I do more or less of that?
11:18:15  <andythenorth> [hopper refits to other stuff]
11:18:28  <Pikka> you can always rename it depending on what cargos are available
11:18:47  <andythenorth> I could
11:18:54  <andythenorth> I am running out of names somewhat
11:19:11  <andythenorth> I don't want to use really specific UK realism names
11:19:17  <hythlodaeus> boy am I glad no one checks for structural integrity and earthquake risk in OpenTTD :D
11:19:21  <andythenorth> 'plate wagon' already confused the translators :P
11:21:09  <Pikka> just keeping it coal hopper should be fine
11:21:29  <TrueBrain> LordAro: ha, itertools.islice solves this problem :D
11:21:36  <TrueBrain> (that of limits)
11:22:04  <Pikka> every other set has "coal" wagons which probably refit when no coal too
11:22:07  <hythlodaeus> if you guys want to prevent confusing translators, slightly upgrading eints to support strings comments would solve that
11:22:24  <LordAro> TrueBrain: :D
11:22:32  <andythenorth> 'grey hopper'
11:22:35  <andythenorth> 'brown hopper'
11:22:36  <andythenorth> :P
11:23:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #116: Various of fixes in preparation of running this Docker on AWS
11:24:45  <hythlodaeus> guys I've finished my upgrade of the english.txt file for better tooltips, but I kind of need some help to commit it, since I'm still learning how to use git properly
11:24:47  <TrueBrain> okay .. this does need a final check, to see if it still plays nice with my latest AWS deployment, but that is something for later today :) This is going to be so eppiccc :D
11:25:41  <andythenorth> then repeat :)
11:25:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro updated pull request #12: Announce tags when created
11:25:54  <LordAro> TrueBrain: hype
11:25:59  * andythenorth wants to auto-publish newgrf docs to AWS from github :D
11:26:31  <andythenorth> such test
11:26:36  <LordAro> wait hang on, where did i get #30 & #31 from? these are #7 & #9
11:27:06  <andythenorth> Pikka: coal is coal, but 'potash hopper' or 'salt hopper'? o_O
11:27:09  <andythenorth> too weird?
11:27:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro updated pull request #12: Announce tags when created
11:27:43  <Pikka> ehhh potash
11:27:47  <andythenorth> too weird
11:28:21  <andythenorth> I have about 9 kinds of covered hopper now :P
11:28:49  <andythenorth> clay, grain, carbon black, all very specific
11:29:15  <andythenorth> then generic silver, brown, dirty cement colours
11:29:21  <andythenorth> and I want CC also :P
11:29:23  <TrueBrain> LordAro: we really do want that fallback? I read your comment that you concluded too that it could only result in odd behaviour :D
11:29:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain commented on pull request #12: Announce tags when created
11:31:10  <Pikka> separate wagon grf andythenorth?
11:31:49  <andythenorth> I think that's what I'm making :P
11:31:51  <andythenorth> by accident
11:31:53  <andythenorth> Iron Wagon
11:41:58  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'll remove
11:42:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain commented on pull request #12: Announce tags when created
11:49:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro updated pull request #12: Announce tags when created
11:51:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro updated pull request #12: Announce tags when created
11:51:49  <LordAro> TrueBrain: resolved
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12:04:59  <Samu> remove snow line height from world gen gui is the next step?
12:06:24  <Samu> - goodbye snow line height!
12:06:30  <Samu> now, you're auto determined
12:06:54  <Samu> thoughts?
12:08:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #12: Announce tags when created
12:08:03  <TrueBrain> 1 more bug LordAro :)
12:19:10  <hythlodaeus> same as desert line then?
12:19:46  <hythlodaeus> frankly, I would like to have the option to play on a wholly snowed map
12:20:01  <hythlodaeus> but replacing farms with something else
12:20:38  <hythlodaeus> you could have like container yards instead representing food imports
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13:23:03  <andythenorth> newgrf option to over-ride min. snowline height
13:24:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro updated pull request #12: Announce tags when created
13:24:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro commented on pull request #12: Announce tags when created
13:25:24  <Samu> this is complex
13:25:27  <Samu> need math
13:25:35  <LordAro> 1+1=2
13:25:53  <Samu> ok, farms generate at tile height 1 when now line is 3
13:26:17  <Samu> no, damn my bad
13:27:50  <Samu> need to clamp to the uppder limit and lower limit
13:27:59  <Samu> lower limit because of farms
13:28:03  <Samu> upper limit because of forests
13:31:43  <_dp_> 1+1=10 :p
13:32:04  <andythenorth> oof
13:32:25  <nielsm>   so, should I remove the "gamelength" setting again and leave just endingyear?
13:33:09  <nielsm> and then merge it on december 28th, and it will be a (kind-of) revert 11 years in the making
13:33:57  <LordAro> nielsm: sounds good
13:34:14  <nielsm> actually... I wonder if I could make it load the original setting that was cleared out from the savegame in the ancient version
13:34:29  <nielsm> so if you somehow find and load a savegame from 2008 or earlier, it inherits the old ending year setting
13:36:10  <hythlodaeus> why do forests only grow above snowline?
13:36:23  <nielsm> because that's the rules of sub-arctic landscape
13:36:32  <hythlodaeus> yeah, but why?
13:36:35  <nielsm> to make a challenge
13:36:50  <hythlodaeus> is it to divide economy a bit better?
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13:37:09  <nielsm> forcing you to make services onto the mountains
13:37:20  <hythlodaeus> sounds fair enough
13:37:55  <hythlodaeus> but having mines on mountains only would make a bit more sense tho
13:38:11  <hythlodaeus> like gold or coal only on mountains
13:38:37  <LordAro> nielsm: it'd be nice, but probably a bit much :p
13:40:30  <Samu> line 1298 of industry_cmd.cpp on checking farms if (GetTileZ(tile) + 2 >= HighestSnowLine()) {
13:41:36  <Samu> if x + 2 >= 3
13:41:39  <Samu> fail
13:42:25  <Samu> at height 1, farms fail
13:42:47  <Samu> height 0 is water, they fail anyway
13:42:55  <Samu> min snow height is 4
13:43:02  <Samu> for farms
13:43:25  <Samu> but I get rare cases where farms are placed when snow height is 3, albeit very rarely
13:46:14  <hythlodaeus> desert landscape seems to be a lot less picky when placing farms
13:46:34  <hythlodaeus> say you generate a very flat desert map meaning most green will be near the shore
13:46:50  <hythlodaeus> it will actually pile up a fair amounts of farms on the shoreline
13:47:09  <hythlodaeus> have you checked how desert landscape does it? might be of help
13:51:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain approved pull request #12: Announce tags when created
13:54:06  <hythlodaeus> Samu: look here
13:54:08  <hythlodaeus>
13:54:23  <hythlodaeus> distribution on desert really piles up farms and fruit plantations
13:54:43  <hythlodaeus> so technically we could do the same and still have a lower snow line
13:59:16  <Samu> I got it! farms somehow generate at tile height 0, because it's using GetTileZ instead of GetMaxTileZ
13:59:36  <Samu> it happens on a sloped tile
14:00:32  <Samu> sometimes the terrain is flattened to height 0, sometimes it's not, depending on the slope
14:00:49  <Samu> and it's flattened to height 1, then the farm is placed there
14:01:18  <Samu> looks like this is a bug
14:01:42  <Samu> let me test GetTileMaxZ
14:05:45  <Samu> aha
14:05:45  <Samu>
14:06:19  <Samu> industry generator checked that tile with a hole on the top right to see if it can place a farm
14:06:31  <Samu> GetTileZ returns 0 there
14:06:43  <Samu> 0 + 2 >= 3 is false, which means farm is permitted here
14:06:58  <Samu> terrain is then flattened to height 0
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14:08:25  <Samu> only 4 farms were generated on a 64*4096
14:08:38  <Samu> the other industries are at ~25
14:08:41  <Samu> generated
14:10:28  <TrueBrain> LordAro: you can merge, but it will take a bit before it will be deployed :)
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14:11:41  <Samu> GetTileMaxZ
14:12:17  <Samu> failed to generate farms
14:12:28  <Samu> on this case, that's the intended behaviour
14:12:59  <Samu> which means, snowline of 4 is minimum possible to have farms generated
14:15:05  <hythlodaeus> but then again, how does desert do it on a smooth land?
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14:16:52  <Samu> desert/grass seems to be different, becase I see it spawn on the same height
14:17:03  <Samu> doesn't seem related with arctic snowline
14:17:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year
14:18:13  <hythlodaeus> my point is, if it was made a little bit more like desert, then you could afford to have lower snow lines
14:18:51  <LordAro> TrueBrain: :)
14:18:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year
14:19:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro closed issue #7: Always use .dorpsgek.yml of main (master) branch
14:19:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro merged pull request #12: Announce tags when created
14:19:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] LordAro closed issue #9: Announce tags when created
14:19:58  <TrueBrain> nice, and tnx a lot :)
14:21:25  <LordAro> i fancied writing some python this morning :)
14:25:19  <Samu> the way snow is coded here is based on height
14:26:05  <Samu> altitude
14:26:30  <hythlodaeus> but so is desert, riught
14:26:45  <Samu> no, desert doesn't depend on height, it's a different algorithm
14:28:43  <Samu> now let me check forests
14:29:21  <Samu> if (GetTileZ(tile) < HighestSnowLine() + 2) {
14:31:01  <Samu> if snow line is 4
14:31:13  <Samu> at tile height is 7
14:31:28  <Samu> 7 < 4 + 2
14:31:40  <Samu> false, plants forest
14:31:56  <Samu> but this is also using GetTileZ
14:33:07  <Samu> 6 < 4 + 2 is also false
14:36:12  <Samu> maximum map height has to be 6
14:36:24  <Samu> to have both farms and forests, if i'm not mistaken, let me test
14:40:26  <andythenorth> also snowline is variable
14:40:36  <andythenorth> it optionally moves through the year
14:41:08  <hythlodaeus> is there an advanced setting for that?
14:41:14  <hythlodaeus> i thought it was only a newGRF
14:42:14  <Samu> GetTileZ is correct for the forest case
14:42:17  <andythenorth> Pikka: got some "Can't find suitable wagons" debug output
14:42:27  <andythenorth> interesting, lots of wagons are available...
14:44:39  <Samu> andythenorth, that's only during the game, not when generating scenario + industries
14:44:48  <andythenorth> yes
14:51:29  <Samu> height 0: water; height 1: land + farm; height 2: land; height 3: snow minimum density; height 4: the snow_line_height value, density +1; height 5: snow density +2; height 6: full snow, forests
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14:52:32  <Samu> means the max height on the table is 7 to have a "valid" arctic map
14:52:59  <Samu> {   3,   3,   3,   3,   4,   5,   7 }, ///< Very flat
14:53:14  <Samu> very flat is really bad for this
14:53:38  <Samu> only 4096x4096 is able to generate a valid arctic map
14:53:44  <Samu> the only 7
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15:21:40  <Samu> I feel a bit alone on this :(
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15:41:22  <Samu> im submiting a PR of something I feel is a bug
15:42:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7877: Fix: Farms could be generated at sea level
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16:50:05  <andythenorth> Dev post anyone? o_O
17:04:34  <LordAro> andythenorth: feel free to write one :p
17:05:03  <andythenorth> oof
17:05:43  <LordAro> hmm, 2 commits away from 24k, according to github
17:06:53  <LordAro> disregard the fact that we got to r28004 before migrating to git
17:07:32  <nielsm> :P
17:08:06  <LordAro> dunno where some 5000 commits disappeared to
17:08:14  <nielsm> svn branches
17:08:34  <LordAro> there weren't many of those
17:08:40  <nielsm> while the 24k are only direct trace from head to foot
17:08:43  <LordAro> we've got all the release branches, obviously
17:09:06  <nielsm> wel dunno then
17:09:28  <nielsm> maybe some svn revisions did "nothing" and squashed away during the migration?
17:10:09  <LordAro> mm
17:10:14  <LordAro> branch creation is the obvious one
17:10:31  <LordAro> maybe just 5000 commits in total throughout the years makes sense?
17:10:59  <LordAro> the biggest svn branch i'm aware of would be the cpp branch
17:17:49  <michi_cc> LordAro: I think that number is only for the master branch. If you click on it, it links to
17:18:38  <michi_cc> Well, it changes if you switch the branch in the overview, so I'd say definitly only count on the selected branch.
17:26:59  <LordAro> michi_cc: that would make sense
17:34:24  <andythenorth> Pikka: it's built an electric engine for a non-electrified route :)
17:34:44  <andythenorth> it has 3 routes converging on one station, 2 are electrified, with el depots
17:35:22  <Samu> as I was clearing snow line height from world gen gui the right way, I discovered that GS's have access to widgets from world gen
17:35:28  <Samu> what the heck could this mean'
17:36:33  <Samu> SQGSWindow.DefSQConst(engine, ScriptWindow::WID_GL_SNOW_LEVEL_TEXT,                    "WID_GL_SNOW_LEVEL_TEXT");
17:37:05  <Samu> got an error on this because I forgot to delete it, which makes me ask, could GS's generate worlds?
17:37:42  <nielsm> no because there isn't any way to open that window while a GS is running
17:37:57  <nielsm> or well... maybe? during scenario editor?
17:47:39  <Samu> I have a problem
17:47:44  <Samu> how to deal with heightmaps
17:48:01  <Samu> loading a PNG and having openttd generate a heightmap
17:48:16  <Samu> what to do about snow line here
17:53:19  <Samu> the image could be blank, terragenesis then generates everything with the same height
17:53:33  <Samu> what snowlevel value for this?
17:54:03  <nielsm> there's a limit to how much own stupidity you can protect users against
17:54:26  <Samu> hmm ok
17:56:19  <nielsm> does anyone have links to ottd 0.6.3 binaries?
17:56:38  <nielsm> I'm not sure how to construct them
17:57:12  <Samu> well then i think i leave it as is
17:57:37  <Samu> _settings_game.game_creation.snow_line_height = Clamp(snow_line_height, 4, max(4, highest_height - 2));
17:57:48  <Samu> when everything else fails, 4 is the answer
18:01:29  <Samu> btw, this number could be 3 if farms could be placed 1 level closer to snowline
18:01:50  <Samu> but got no feedback
18:02:08  <Samu> on those images i posted yesterday, let me find brb
18:05:00  <nielsm> ah, found the download
18:06:06  <Samu> - 1 level closer to snow
18:07:05  <Samu> - same scenario, the way openttd has it atm
18:12:17  <nielsm> ah okay, it _does_ load the ending year right:
18:12:21  <nielsm> :D
18:13:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #7877: Fix: Farms could be generated at sea level
18:15:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year
18:15:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year
18:17:24  <peter1138> Hmm, should I get some Jagermeister?
18:17:37  <nielsm> it's a good liqour
18:17:47  <peter1138> There's a cold-brew coffee flavour... Hmm.
18:18:37  <peter1138> I'd quite like a bottle of Red Velvet Bailey's, but it's some exclusive thing. And of course red velvet is just chocolate that's red.
18:23:37  <andythenorth> meh naming of things :P
18:23:41  * andythenorth horsing
18:23:59  <nielsm> and j├Ągermeister was really not a bad idea, I just remembered I have a bottle with a few servings left in it, special edition with vanilla and cinnamon
18:25:45  <peter1138> Oo
18:30:34  <peter1138> Maybe next time I go shopping :-)
18:30:49  <peter1138> My booze cupboard is somewhat full anyway, and I have a load of Christmas beer to get through.
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18:33:04  <Samu> - is this good explanation for the numbers I put into the Clamp?
18:33:52  <Samu> or, how to make it clear?
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18:40:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7878: Fix bootstrap with missing basesets
18:41:26  <nielsm> hmm, issue #7890 is close :P
18:42:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] james5922 commented on issue #6566: Very long loading of the maximum "zoom out" level in 4K resolution
18:42:49  <Samu> forest explanation is slightly wrong
18:43:27  <Samu> b* Forests can only generate at a minimum of 'snow_line_height + 2'
18:44:35  <Samu> fixed
18:45:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:45:48  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:47:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bojleros opened issue #7879: Train routes labeling
18:49:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7878: Fix bootstrap with missing basesets
18:50:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7878: Fix bootstrap with missing basesets
18:50:51  <peter1138> Meh, can't stop snacking... stupid :(
18:51:14  <peter1138> At least I did actually get out on the bike today, but still.
18:51:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7877: Fix: Farms could be generated at sea level
18:52:12  <FLHerne> Samu: My point is, I don't see why it's inherently a problem for farms to exist at sea level
18:52:25  <FLHerne> The player can do the same manually
18:53:06  <FLHerne> (and IRL, most of the farms near me are /below/ sea level, because land shrinks when you drain it...)
18:54:00  <FLHerne> tbh, that criticism goes for a lot of your patches
18:54:26  <glx> indeed fore me #7877 tries to fix a non issue
18:55:14  <glx> every thing can be on sea level
18:55:17  <FLHerne> You seem to spend a lot of time and effort on things without explaining why they matter
18:55:42  <LordAro> that's Samu in a nutshell
18:55:47  * andythenorth sympathises :P
18:56:03  * andythenorth currently obsessing about type 1 vs. type 2 tanks 
18:56:31  <glx> just use a panzer IV
18:57:57  <andythenorth> oof
18:58:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Honza1987 commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
18:59:07  <FLHerne> I respect the hard work, it just might be more useful with a clearer sense of purpose
18:59:26  * andythenorth considers giving in and using the livery subtypes feature 
18:59:28  <andythenorth> even though it's bad
18:59:51  <FLHerne> The refit thing?
18:59:57  <andythenorth> yeah
19:08:12  <andythenorth> railways have unhelpfully jargon-ish wagon names
19:08:28  <andythenorth> 'presflo', 'prestwin', 'polybulk', 'centerflow', 'grainflow'
19:08:39  <andythenorth> none of these help name wagons for the game
19:12:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7877: Fix: Farms could be generated at sea level
19:23:26  <hythlodaeus> that's true, and some of it is confusing on top of it
19:23:58  <hythlodaeus> i.e. in my language, "semaphore" can and in fact is mostly used to describe electric light signals
19:24:40  <hythlodaeus> but on railway vocabulary, my own language included, "semaphore" specifically means non-electric signal furniture
19:26:04  <hythlodaeus> railways people also use the same word as "lighthouse" to refer to electric lights to make it extra confusing for laypeople
19:28:08  <nielsm> at least in germanic language railway tradition, the accurate technical terms are pretty distinct: form signal and light signal
19:28:14  <nielsm> (translated)
19:30:16  <hythlodaeus> that's just german being a very precise language and good for describing objects in general
19:30:33  <hythlodaeus> romance languages tend to be a wee bit more cryptic
19:32:13  <andythenorth> ??
19:32:19  <andythenorth> which is better ^
19:32:23  <andythenorth> they all refit the same things
19:33:24  <nielsm> "apart from liking one colour over the other, why use them?"
19:36:47  <nielsm> for unimportant design choices (material choices from manufacturer?) I think I prefer style determined by purchase date, such that all the styles rotate multiple times throughout the availability period
19:37:28  <nielsm> such as every 256 days the design changes
19:41:50  <andythenorth> I'm pretty unconvinced by the colour-based names
19:42:06  <andythenorth> but using specific cargo names is double-edged
19:42:07  <hythlodaeus> same
19:42:25  <andythenorth> it specifically helps find a wagon for a cargo, but the coal hopper refits many other cargos
19:42:35  <andythenorth> whereas the carbon black hopper (not shown) does not
19:42:45  <andythenorth> consistency it is not :P
19:43:57  <andythenorth> the silver one could be 'lightweight hopper' (but it isn't) or 'aluminium hopper' (but so what) or 'merry-go-round hopper' (only UK train fans will understand that)
19:45:39  <nielsm> "aluminium hopper" so it carries aluminium?
19:45:40  <nielsm> :)
19:45:50  <nielsm> oh wait bauxite :P
19:46:32  <andythenorth> aluminium because it's silver :P
19:47:11  <andythenorth> meanwhile IRL uk trains, coal hoppers carry all bulk cargos, except when they don't because coal is too dense so they're overload easily
19:47:15  <andythenorth> scrap wagons carry coal
19:47:30  <andythenorth> aggregate wagons carry anything that can be unloaded with an excavator
19:47:46  <andythenorth> grain wagons carry quicklime
19:48:23  <andythenorth> lolz continue
20:11:26  * andythenorth wonders about a new purchase menu, with +/- widgets :P
20:16:46  <andythenorth> 'Coal-type Hopper', 'Stone-type Hopper', 'Ore-type hopper'?
20:16:47  <andythenorth> :P
20:17:45  <Samu> looks like it won't flood
20:17:58  <Samu> there's a DC_NO_WATER on the terraform command
20:18:15  <Samu> but...
20:18:20  <Samu> still investigating
20:21:01  <andythenorth> all Hopper? :D
20:25:56  <nielsm> or you could invent some manufacturer names
20:26:56  <Heiki> Grace, Edward, etc.:
20:27:09  <glx> haha
20:28:38  <andythenorth> realisms :)
20:28:45  <andythenorth> Dennis
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20:51:18  <Samu> - almost flood ready... almost
20:55:53  <Samu> - this can't be normal behaviour regardless if it floods or not
20:56:11  <Samu> so many farms digging a hole
20:56:23  <Samu> because the other nearby also did so
20:59:33  <Samu> there's only 10 farms on the map, and that little place has 7 of them
21:00:54  <hythlodaeus> that seems like a problem
21:05:12  <Samu> i used a maximum map height of 6 on purpose to augment the chances of this happening
21:06:19  <Samu> but... maybe with the right conditions, this can also happen on 1.10
21:06:26  <Samu> gonna test
21:07:22  <milek7_> no ttd related
21:07:24  <milek7_>
21:11:28  <Samu> uep, also happens in 1.10
21:11:30  <Samu> beta 1
21:12:11  <Samu> 8 farms on the map, 5 generated next to each other
21:12:18  <Samu> map size 64x4096
21:25:47  * andythenorth wonders about making a realism set
21:25:53  <andythenorth> instead of a pseudo-realism set
21:26:07  <andythenorth> no requirement to do any actual design or gameplay :P
21:31:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7877: Fix: Farms could be generated at sea level
21:33:20  <Samu> i found no actual flooding
21:33:50  <Samu> but I don't know yet if it's possible
21:35:43  <Samu> now you're gonna say "what is the problem of 50 farms being next to each other!! ITS REAL!"
21:35:48  <Samu> :(
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22:15:07  <Pikka> oops andythenorth
22:15:13  <andythenorth> herro
22:15:19  <Pikka> herro
22:15:46  <Pikka> electric train on non-electrified line?
22:18:33  <andythenorth> I think it detected the depot at the target station was electrified
22:18:55  <andythenorth> yeah there is one depot at the destination, that's electric
22:19:04  <andythenorth> the route to source is not el though
22:20:42  <Pikka> hmmm
22:22:55  <andythenorth> is problems
22:23:05  <andythenorth> do some devloloping :)
22:24:00  <Pikka> yes
22:31:24  <andythenorth> :)
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22:42:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 updated pull request #7870: Doc: improved english tooltips draft
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22:52:36  <Samu> I can't trigger any flood
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22:56:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Doc: improved english tooltips draft
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23:20:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
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23:30:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
23:31:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
23:34:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
23:38:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
23:41:50  <glx> hythlodaeus: sometimes you add {NBSP} around the hyphen, sometimes you don't ;)
23:44:52  <Samu> It is ready!
23:44:56  <Samu> Should I PR?
23:45:40  <hythlodaeus> glx: in some tooltips it was not necessary
23:45:53  <hythlodaeus> but I might fix that later
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23:54:12  <hythlodaeus> but if you can note where I am missing NBSP it would help a lot!
23:57:19  <hythlodaeus> what do you think of the new descriptions btw?

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