Log for #openttd on 2nd January 2020:
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05:55:45  <crazystacy> hello. trying to set up a dedicated server. trying to install NewGRF things with this link: but every time i exit OpenTTD the CFG is wiped. if i add newgrfs manually they are always wiped
05:55:58  <crazystacy> i am running it from the terminal. don't have gui access
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08:06:59  <andythenorth> hurrah
08:07:03  <andythenorth> new CivilAI
08:11:10  <andythenorth> Pikka: tramz next? :)
08:17:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bentley commented on issue #6842: Heap overflow leading to crash
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08:56:09  <andythenorth> hmm is train pathfinding broken recently?
08:56:16  * andythenorth is seeing odd things
09:01:50  <andythenorth> nope just a weird PBS artefact I think
09:15:44  <peter1138> Well, that could still be broken...?
09:20:06  <andythenorth> savegame contains unreleased grfs as usual :P
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09:20:14  <andythenorth> which is why I don't report bugs
09:20:30  <andythenorth> and grfs have usually been reloaded
09:22:53  <peter1138> I wasn't going to look anyway
09:23:28  <andythenorth> was it lunch yet?
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10:25:12  <peter1138> Not then, not now.
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10:27:35  <peter1138> Not then, not now.
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11:10:08  <peter1138> Is it elevenses then?
11:12:15  <Eddi|zuHause> at 12:10? sure
11:19:49  <peter1138> Gosh timezone comments are so new!
11:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen any this whole decade
12:15:18  * andythenorth crisps
12:31:08  * andythenorth toast
12:50:51  <peter1138> Is it?
12:52:19  <peter1138> 10 minutes til I do it.
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13:10:30  <skrause> Hi, is a max drawing rate of around 30 fps normal? It seems that the mouse cursor is also only 30 fps which feels a bit laggy, is there any way to improve this? I'm using version 1.9.3 on Windows and OpenTTD is using less than 10% CPU of a single core (~1% in Windows task manager with 8 cores), so it doesn't look CPU-limited.
13:16:16  <FLHerne> skrause: That's normal
13:16:52  <FLHerne> AAUI there's a redraw every tick, which is exactly 30ms, so just over 30fps
13:17:18  <Pikka> andythenorth, probably not trams. rail pathfinder preprocessor next, make route building faster. :)
13:17:49  <Pikka> btw, you mentioned it seemed a little unaggressive before... there was a bug which basically stopped it building new cargo trains once it had a passenger network. should be fixed now. :)
13:18:11  <andythenorth> yes, it's building more now
13:18:16  <andythenorth> seen the 'one order' bug?
13:21:07  <FLHerne> skrause: OpenTTD's architecture is still very much a classic '90s "one big game loop" thing
13:21:35  <Pikka> just saw it... odd
13:22:06  <andythenorth> it also tickled some PBS edge case
13:22:26  <andythenorth> the one-order train somehow managed to prevent all other path reservations on that route
13:22:33  <andythenorth> so the other trains were stuck
13:22:44  <andythenorth> the AI eventually just scrapped them all :)
13:24:25  <Pikka> hmmm
13:25:03  <Pikka> did this happen a few decades into the game?
13:25:15  <FLHerne> skrause: See
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13:26:18  <FLHerne> (I still think this auto-closing of "stale" issues is a mistake...)
13:27:30  <andythenorth> Pikka: 9 years in
13:27:34  <andythenorth> according to savegame
13:27:38  <Pikka> oh
13:28:09  <Pikka> well that's one theory out ;)
13:28:11  <andythenorth> FLHerne: stalebot is gone currently afaik
13:28:25  <FLHerne> yay
13:28:29  <andythenorth> I disagree but eh
13:28:41  <Pikka> do you have the autosave immediately before it built the train? it might replicate.
13:28:56  <andythenorth> 'closing issues' seems to be the modern equivalent of tabs vs. space
13:29:21  <andythenorth> one crowd likes them 'in case they're useful' and the other crowd 'finds pointless things pointless'
13:32:02  <FLHerne> The issues don't go away because you've closed them
13:32:39  <FLHerne> Sure, close vague bugs where it's unclear what went wrong or if there's even a problem
13:33:23  <FLHerne> But closing real issues that have generated discussion just means you end up with duplicated effort
13:33:34  <FLHerne> And people repeatedly asking the same question
13:33:49  <andythenorth> sure
13:34:03  <andythenorth> it's just not an argument that's going to resolve one way or the other
13:34:29  <FLHerne> The cursors, or the bug-closing? :P
13:34:37  <andythenorth> the approach to tickets
13:34:43  <andythenorth> there are two camps, and probably a third camp who wish it was never talked about
13:35:28  <andythenorth> I 'solved' this at work
13:35:39  <andythenorth> a bunch of tickets get moved into 'not now'
13:35:53  <andythenorth> and then after 2 years or so, they all get closed, because the emotional attachment has gone
13:36:08  <andythenorth> just closing things causes way too much emotion
13:36:14  <skrause> FLHerne: Thanks. Yeah I've seen this issue (went through a lot of Google results searching for a solution...) and am mainly asking because I've seen some 60 fps YouTube videos of OpenTTD (e.g. where the mouse cursor also looks like 60 fps (or at least much better), so there must be *some* improvement I don't see locally.
13:39:53  <andythenorth> turn off 'full animation'
13:40:18  <andythenorth> but if you're getting 30fps already, that shouldn't make much difference
13:40:38  <FLHerne> I don't really see it
13:41:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 opened pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
13:41:03  <FLHerne> But then I play Portal on this laptop at ~15fps, so perhaps not the most discerning viewer
13:41:19  <andythenorth> game is supposed to run at ~34fps
13:41:40  <andythenorth> nobody should be seeing 60fps afaik
13:45:11  <peter1138> Except in FF :-)
13:46:02  <Sacro> I want 144Hz :(
13:50:44  <andythenorth>
13:51:56  <andythenorth> nothing to do with 30fps in OpenTTD just a good article
13:52:15  <peter1138> I've been playing Doom II WADs for a while again.
13:52:29  <peter1138> Currently working my way throug Hell Ground, which is... somewhat difficult.
13:53:17  <andythenorth>
13:53:25  <spnda> my game running at 32fps for me while on 165hz
13:55:16  <andythenorth> "This remains the key lesson that still matters today: there are often tradeoffs that can be made that gets you a significant advantage in exchange for limitations that you can successfully cover up with good design." – John Carmack
14:01:03  <andythenorth> Pikka: it's built some steel trains, after I got my company to feed a steel mill :)
14:01:40  <Pikka> o/
14:11:39  <andythenorth> oops crashed it ;)
14:11:52  <andythenorth> PowerWalk L122 and L132
14:14:29  <peter1138> Oof, credit card balance... £1800 :(
14:15:03  <peter1138> Need to stop spending :p
14:15:14  <andythenorth> bikes?
14:17:53  <peter1138> Mostly food.
14:18:08  <Pikka> o/
14:18:13  <peter1138> Oh yeah I bought that UPS too.
14:18:20  <peter1138> And Christmas presents.
14:18:34  <spnda> Are NewGRF waypoints always class id 1? And Stations are just 2..255 for ids?
14:19:07  <peter1138> They're always WAYP class.
14:19:17  <spnda> ah ok
14:20:07  <Pikka> andythenorth, got a screenshot of the debug log?
14:21:09  <andythenorth> not in one screen
14:21:46  <andythenorth> Pikka:
14:22:10  <andythenorth> there's nothing useful further up the screen, just repetition
14:22:40  <andythenorth> scroll down is just slightly different numbers
14:23:35  <Pikka> ya. such a pain when it crashes during one of those iterative walks.
14:24:09  <Pikka> can you see where it got up to with the track conversion on the map? anything interesting there?
14:26:47  <Pikka> tile 63346 is 0xF69B, if that makes locating it any easier with the ? tool :)
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14:33:33  <Samu> i'm getting crashes when loading my old savegames :(
14:34:34  <Samu> does that mean backwards compatibility is no longer assured?
14:35:10  <Samu> gonna try load in 1.9.3
14:35:47  <Samu> loads in 1.9.3
14:35:54  <Samu> crashes in 1.10.0-beta2
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14:41:12  <andythenorth> Pikka: pretty unremarkable :P
14:41:20  <andythenorth> my guess was somewhere else tbh
14:41:34  <Pikka> must be :P
14:42:02  <andythenorth> I wondered about
14:42:27  <andythenorth> that's an unserviced route, partially converted to el
14:42:36  <Pikka> yeah, that looks like it
14:42:54  <Pikka> and it'll be the other player's station there that's breaking it
14:43:02  <Pikka> thanks, will fix :)
14:46:15  <spnda> I need some advice on a problem. Similar to waypoints, I want 2 different "types", settable by the grf coder.  I thought of something like a property with a byte or word changing the type in the spec.  Though then I would need to pick the ones specifically by some sort or something. Maybe define a specific range for when it is one type or another?
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14:54:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 approved pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:14:58  * Pikka bed
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15:16:10  * andythenorth bed?
15:16:20  <andythenorth> oof not really viable
15:16:26  <SpComb> bed canceled
15:16:57  <andythenorth> appalling
15:17:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:19:00  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:19:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:22:42  <supermop_work> back to work
15:22:49  <supermop_work> in therory
15:22:52  <supermop_work> teory
15:22:58  <supermop_work> whatever
15:23:16  <supermop_work> have not actually done any work the past 90 min
15:24:03  * andythenorth is doing compliance
15:24:05  <andythenorth> again
15:24:10  <andythenorth> I love this shit
15:24:26  <supermop_work> i do have a lot of time sheet stuff to do
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15:26:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 dismissed a review for pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:26:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 updated pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:28:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:29:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
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15:31:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:38:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 opened pull request #136: More or less complete rework of the page header
15:40:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 dismissed a review for pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:40:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 updated pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:43:59  <Samu> I see you guys are busy
15:44:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:45:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:45:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #135: Change: remove ruleset for block #openttd-logo-ipv6 from base.css
15:48:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 updated pull request #136: More or less complete rework of the page header
15:55:00  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7462: Server exiting to main menu hangs client
15:56:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7496: Crashes on start - malloc(): invalid next size (unsorted)
16:02:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7891: Loading a save from 1.7.2 crashes on 1.10.0-beta2
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16:19:48  <Samu> the crash is on CanBuildVehicleInfrastructure
16:21:02  <Samu> line 1788 vehicle.cpp
16:21:14  <LordAro> interesting
16:21:27  <Samu> seems like a not road types crash
16:26:32  <Samu> if I recall
16:27:00  <Samu> i had in the config, a max number of road vehicles set to 0
16:27:29  <Samu> it was a ship only game, all vehicles = 0 except ships
16:46:03  <spnda> in the action 4 code, I don't quite understand why all features above 3 have some special id. They use another switch case with GB(id, 8, 8). What's the difference?
17:18:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7891: Loading a save from 1.7.2 crashes on 1.10.0-beta2
17:38:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7891: Loading a save from 1.7.2 crashes on 1.10.0-beta2
17:41:35  <LordAro> Samu: as best as i can tell, it's related to there being an "effect vehicle" (smoke, explosions, sparks, etc) being saved. the game is then encountering this on load, and falling over
17:41:50  <LordAro> for some reason it's trying to make it a road vehicle, which isn't working so well
17:43:40  <Samu> there's only ships in the game
17:43:54  <Samu> they can breakdown if i recall
17:44:02  <Samu> is that effect?
17:44:09  <LordAro> yeah
17:44:30  <LordAro> peter1138: don't suppose you remember anything about the above?
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17:51:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #7891: Loading a save from 1.7.2 crashes on 1.10.0-beta2
17:54:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #136: More or less complete rework of the page header
17:55:13  <spnda> Does nobody know the difference between a vehicles name string and a stations class and name strings?
17:57:22  <nielsm> spnda: many pecularities of newgrf stem from it being defined for ttdpatch
17:57:29  <nielsm> with all the constraints ttdpatch had to work within
17:58:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #136: More or less complete rework of the page header
17:58:55  <spnda> true. but I would assume it'd still be basically the same. A stations name seems to be loaded quite differently as opposed to a stations class id.
17:59:18  <nielsm> I think it has to do with being able to use fewer bits to refer to a string
17:59:25  <spnda> Andd I want this new feature to have a class id string and a name string aswell, so I would need something similar, I guess.
17:59:37  <nielsm> i.e. since you know you're working with a train, you look in the train strings table
17:59:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #136: More or less complete rework of the page header
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18:05:40  <Samu> maybe the FOR_ALL vehicles isn't iterating the same thing as the new iterator?
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18:07:12  <nielsm> Samu no read the code again
18:07:21  <nielsm> what's the difference between "type" and "v->type" ?
18:07:43  <nielsm> answer: the first does not reference the vehicle being iterated over
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18:17:52  <Samu> testing the last commit before NotRoadTypes
18:17:56  <Samu> see if it loads
18:18:29  <Samu> ID	Author	Date	Message
18:18:29  <Samu> 21edf67f89c60351d5a0d84625455aa296b6b950	Peter Nelson <>	13-04-2018 20:03:11 +00:00	Codechange: Untangle game and scenario toolbars.
18:21:12  <Samu> it loaded fine
18:22:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 updated pull request #136: More or less complete rework of the page header
18:28:14  <andythenorth> this is really interesting
18:28:15  <andythenorth> YMMV
18:28:30  <Samu> ID	Author	Date	Message
18:28:30  <Samu> c02ef3e4564b7b54d49f0827d2d7625cbc38f335	peter1138 <>	06-04-2019 06:46:15 +00:00	Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
18:28:34  <Samu> it crashed
18:28:42  <Samu> that's the faulty commit
18:28:47  <Samu> same crash
18:29:00  <nielsm> thank you for revealing nothing new
18:29:14  <Samu> uhm just wanted to make sure
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18:34:58  <peter1138> nielsm, it's amazing, isn't it?
18:39:26  <Samu> what's the v->roadtype of effect vehicles supposed to be?
18:39:44  <Samu> maybe a savegame conversion is missing?
18:41:12  <peter1138> I would guess that effect vehicles don't have a road type, because they're not road vehicles.
18:42:05  <nielsm> if (type == VEH_ROAD && GetRoadTramType(RoadVehicle::From(v)->roadtype) != (RoadTramType)subtype) continue;
18:42:15  <Samu> if (type == VEH_ROAD && v->type == type && GetRoadTramType(RoadVehicle::From(v)->roadtype) != (RoadTramType)subtype) continue;
18:42:20  <Samu> will try this
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18:43:38  <nielsm> the basic error is that it never tests whether v is a road vehicle before trying to get it as one
18:44:11  <Samu> it loads!
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18:45:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:45:47  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:46:50  <Samu> will it crash for current savegame version?
18:46:53  <Samu> must test
18:47:26  <nielsm> it can probably crash for any savegame version
18:47:35  <nielsm> even without having a save
18:47:42  <Samu> yep, it crashed
18:48:04  <nielsm> if the game needs to check whether a player is capable of build road infrastructure while an effect vehicle is active
18:48:20  <Samu> max num of road vehicles = 0
18:48:24  <Samu> start new game, crash
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19:10:31  * LordAro compiling something prior to 0.6
19:10:33  <LordAro> for reasons
19:12:40  <frosch123> should we push commits to old branches to keep them compileable?
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19:13:30  <nielsm> I suspect that would be lots of work
19:13:57  <nielsm> easier to build some VMs with old junk software
19:14:07  <nielsm> old junk toolchains*
19:14:39  <frosch123> ottd 0.4 actually compiles fine, just one line to fix
19:14:49  <frosch123> later versions need more changes for some reason
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19:15:26  <frosch123> LordAro: so, i recommend branch 0.4
19:15:41  <nielsm> more advanced = more hard
19:16:08  <frosch123> LordAro:
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19:16:49  <LordAro> frosch123: i need savegame 72, unfortunately
19:17:05  <LordAro> ew, longjmp
19:17:11  <frosch123> nielsm: full compilation, 12.5 real, 34.2 user
19:17:25  <frosch123> LordAro: that's still in master. libpng works like that
19:17:41  <frosch123> c people wanting to use exceptions :)
19:18:12  <LordAro> frosch123: oh indeed
19:18:19  <LordAro> i had to fiddle with them at work recently
19:18:31  <LordAro> seems that they don't work on mingw, but __builtin_longjmp does
19:18:40  <LordAro> (computers were a mistake, etc etc)
19:18:52  <frosch123> hmm, my 0.5 checkout is old, i need "svn upgrade" first :p
19:19:36  <frosch123> hmm, no modifies, apparently never compiled it...
19:22:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone updated pull request #7886: Group management enhancements
19:27:04  <LordAro> error: exception cleanup for this placement new selects non-placement operator delete
19:27:07  <LordAro> oh heavens
19:28:27  <nielsm> gotta find an older compiler with less smarts
19:29:12  <frosch123> the problem is mostly libpng
19:29:16  <LordAro> ah, that was an easier fix than i thought
19:29:23  <frosch123> png12->14 was quite incompatible
19:29:37  <LordAro> mm, i cherry-picked the commit that fixed that
19:37:03  <Wolf01> andythenorth in his natural habitat
19:37:39  <andythenorth> am I the cat or the train?
19:38:00  <Wolf01> You decide
19:38:51  <andythenorth> maybe I should get a Doom WAD editor
19:39:04  <andythenorth> it's been 22 years since I last made a Doom WAD
19:44:50  <nielsm> heh
19:45:01  <nielsm> the tooling has improved a lot since then
19:45:03  <nielsm> (I think)
19:45:20  <Wolf01> Think about making IH for mashinky
19:50:38  <LordAro> it compiles!
19:50:48  <LordAro> Error: Cannot open file ''
19:50:56  <LordAro> i forgot about the dangers of pre1.0
19:51:13  <Wolf01> Download it from bana...oh
19:56:33  <frosch123> get a free sample cat with every copy of ttd
19:57:03  <frosch123> now i finally understand why andy is looking for the cat all the time
19:58:24  <LordAro> frosch123: alternatively, download it from the first result on google!
20:03:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #136: More or less complete rework of the page header
20:03:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #136: More or less complete rework of the page header
20:03:59  <andythenorth> can't remember the origin of is cat
20:04:08  <andythenorth> there was a precursor to FIRS with cats
20:04:24  <glx> [19:42:16] <Samu> if (type == VEH_ROAD && v->type == type && GetRoadTramType(RoadVehicle::From(v)->roadtype) != (RoadTramType)subtype) continue; <-- you again choose the complex path
20:04:24  <glx> if (v->type == VEH_ROAD && GetRoadTramType(RoadVehicle::From(v)->roadtype) != (RoadTramType)subtype) continue; <-- this should be enough
20:05:10  <glx> type equality is checked on the nex line anyway
20:11:16  <Samu> hmm, are you sure?
20:11:41  <Samu> do i change line 1780 too?
20:11:59  <nielsm> the cause of the crash is RoadVehicle::From(v) when v is not a road vehicle
20:11:59  <andythenorth> well I think this would work with some revisions
20:12:28  <nielsm> the purpose of the loop is to detect whether the player owns any vehicles requiring the specific type of infrastructure
20:12:42  <andythenorth> maybe I've got the photoshop file, let's see
20:13:03  <glx> 1780 should be safe already
20:13:16  <glx> only the right engines are selected
20:13:18  <nielsm> the condition tested for in that line is whether the infrastructure searched for is different from the required
20:13:43  <nielsm> the loop doesn't terminate when it finds a negative, it terminates when it finds a positive
20:13:57  <glx> bug looks like a "bad" copy/paste
20:15:52  <Samu> oh i see line 1789 does the check
20:15:53  <LordAro> frosch123: here's 0.6, just on the offchance you're interested :)
20:17:01  <frosch123> hmm, there are some more hunks, compared to whenever i compiled it last
20:17:21  <frosch123> -rwxr-xr-x 1 frosch frosch 28880064 Jul 30  2012 bin/openttd   <- ah, 7.5 years
20:19:05  <frosch123> LordAro: are all of them errors, or did yuo also fix warning?
20:19:10  <LordAro> frosch123: all warnings
20:19:13  <LordAro> ...
20:19:16  <LordAro> all errors*
20:19:20  <LordAro> warnings were left
20:19:58  <frosch123> anyway, a lot bigger than the 0.4 diff
20:22:21  <andythenorth> I think this is better
20:22:50  <andythenorth> the click / double-click interaction would work exactly like cargo subtype list, which is not bad at all
20:22:57  <frosch123> hmm, that old binary claimns that libpng is the only lib with an incompatible so-version.
20:23:04  <andythenorth> there would be a new prop or cb for the group subtype string
20:23:11  <glx> andythenorth: better with the offset I'd say
20:23:38  <andythenorth> I thought so, but precedent is the subtypes refit list, no offset
20:24:28  <frosch123> "no offsets" is better
20:24:41  <frosch123> that way all the columns are real columns
20:24:46  <frosch123> and stuff aligns
20:25:01  <andythenorth>
20:25:21  <andythenorth> there is still too much gap in my mockup
20:25:34  <andythenorth> anway prop (cb?) for parent vehicle ID
20:25:45  <andythenorth> prop (cb?) for group substring
20:26:03  <andythenorth> adjust buy menu, available vehicles menu, and auto-refit
20:26:06  <supermop_work> cute boat
20:26:08  <andythenorth> not sure about AI/GS
20:26:20  <frosch123> andythenorth: also, no cb please... vehicles moving from the "hot stuff" to the "historic" group hurts my brain
20:26:28  <andythenorth> +1
20:26:39  <andythenorth> just we default to cb > property when there's a rationale
20:27:02  <glx> yeah but cb are often abused
20:27:03  <andythenorth> oh and the buy menu sort order, someone solved that (forget who)
20:27:12  <andythenorth> would always just be the properties of the group parent
20:27:36  <andythenorth> if authors want complex sort algorithms for groups within groups
20:27:40  <andythenorth> they can submit a PR
20:27:57  <andythenorth> or wait for someone to do it in JGR
20:28:01  <peter1138> :D
20:28:09  <peter1138> The defacto standard version, eh?
20:28:20  <andythenorth> it's a useful safety valve
20:28:33  <andythenorth> I am in no way jealous of JGR's support work though
20:28:43  <frosch123> did he fix nrt?
20:28:58  <andythenorth> is it in JGR yet?
20:29:23  <frosch123> no idea, i just assumed so
20:30:03  <frosch123> but yeah, maybe all the nullptr, std::vector and FOR_EACH stuff scared him
20:31:01  <andythenorth> it's probably in here somewhere
20:31:05  <nielsm> I think it's sort of in, but not in his main branch
20:31:10  <frosch123> a single person supporting N patches, which are probably mostly abandoned by their authors
20:31:24  <andythenorth> it's a remarkable job
20:31:54  <glx> each big change usually kill a patch pack
20:32:36  <andythenorth> so VehicleBuyMenuGroups or what?
20:32:59  <andythenorth> it's not specifically liveries, as arbitrary properties can be different
20:33:02  <frosch123> yeah, but the patch packs before were a single huge patch (i.e. all changes squashed), while jgr kept things separate
20:33:03  <glx> I like the idea andythenorth
20:33:34  <andythenorth> I mean we _could_ have them inherit the properties of the parent vehicle, and just use the substring as a single var which can be checked in the graphics chain only
20:33:41  <andythenorth> but that destroys the simplicity of the idea
20:33:43  <frosch123> it's definitely solves problems which were addressed by multiple people, not just andy's flipping
20:34:06  <andythenorth> latest Horse reduces what the flipping can do
20:34:16  <andythenorth> it's mostly reversing company colour, which is otherwise random
20:34:22  <andythenorth> or actual flipping
20:34:56  <andythenorth> I pushed it quite a long way past the 'BAD FEATURE' threshold
20:35:17  <LordAro> (╯°□°)╯︵ ɥʇɹouǝɥʇʎpuɐ
20:35:20  <LordAro> andy flipping
20:35:23  <andythenorth> nice
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20:35:50  <andythenorth> highly localised user feedback is that 'you should get the train you see in the buy menu' but the CC colour flipping is ok
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20:37:32  <frosch123> you need to cut the "highly" when they stop sitting in your lap
20:38:45  <andythenorth> that hasn't happened yet, if he wants to see what's on my screen
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20:39:08  <andythenorth> also all my stupid livery tricks won't work with RVs
20:39:33  * andythenorth should really do NRT Hog 
20:39:39  <andythenorth> and stop doing Horse not-really-better-just-different changes
20:40:02  <frosch123> i guess a single string id is enough to group vehicles? or does it need a 4-byte "vehicle class", so you can group vehicles from different grfs or addon grfs?
20:40:44  <Samu> what do I write in the commit message?
20:40:45  <frosch123> i think a 4-byte id only works when there are "few" things to label properly. if there are many things, people won't bother naming them
20:40:56  <Samu> maybe somebody else fix it
20:41:04  <frosch123> so, i guess, add-on grfs cannot add to existing groups
20:41:12  <andythenorth> I would have grouped by just setting a parent ID in a prop
20:41:19  <andythenorth> it could be optional grfid in a register :P
20:41:26  <frosch123> what is a parent id?
20:41:42  <frosch123> oh, wait... yes you are right
20:41:46  <andythenorth> I assumed one vehicle would be parent node, rest are child nodes
20:41:50  <frosch123> i assumed the group needs a text, but it doesn't
20:42:03  <andythenorth> the parent also has to be repeated in the child nodes, like in subtype refit UI
20:42:09  <andythenorth> bit weird, but precedent is there
20:42:28  <andythenorth> then each child gets an additional string
20:42:32  <frosch123> ok, so two options
20:43:03  <frosch123> 1) vehicles can set a group number, which is an arbitrary grf-local number. vehicles with same number are grouped
20:43:32  <frosch123> 2) you do something silly like the vehicle-ordering property, where each vehicle has to reference another vehicle to be in the same group with
20:43:51  <frosch123> i think (2) is awful :p
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20:44:04  <nielsm> 2 sounds like a mess to work with
20:44:33  <andythenorth> in 1) how do you determine what's shown on the parent node?
20:44:53  <nielsm> and then you end up with bad grfs with a weird graph of related vehicles
20:45:02  <frosch123> the parent is the last-built vehicle from that group?
20:45:05  <nielsm> vehicle id?
20:45:19  <frosch123> or the first vehicle in vehicle-order
20:45:21  <nielsm> lowest vehicle id is default parent of group
20:45:38  <andythenorth> hmm
20:45:42  <frosch123> grfs already define a sorting order for vehicles, no need to invent a new one
20:45:47  <nielsm> and then sure, you could maybe have an UI option to select a different parent
20:45:47  <andythenorth> I stopped managing IDs a long time ago
20:45:56  <frosch123> the default parent is just the first in the group
20:45:59  <andythenorth> it's quite a bad habit I was in, imagining that ID had some meaning :)
20:46:20  <frosch123> ID is important for savegames :)
20:46:20  <glx> Samu: Fix #7891: really check the vehicle type before casting
20:46:35  <andythenorth> I set IDs manually, I just no longer worry about the value, except that it's unique
20:46:45  <andythenorth> anyway
20:46:56  <andythenorth> neither 1) nor 2) scare me
20:47:05  <frosch123> but do you define a sort-order for the vehicles?
20:47:10  <andythenorth> yes
20:47:16  <andythenorth> but my compile sorts it out
20:47:19  <andythenorth> 2) is a disaster with auto-assigned IDs in nml
20:47:27  <frosch123> and does the parent differ from the 1st vehicle according to that sort-order?
20:47:29  <andythenorth> auto-assigned IDs are a disaster anyway
20:47:54  <andythenorth> but they're a fact :P
20:48:21  <nielsm> for NML you can make it not a property of the vehicles, but a separate top-level thing that defines ordering and grouping, or something like that
20:48:23  <andythenorth> oh yes, the sort order is a neat solution frosch123
20:48:27  <frosch123> yeah, auto-generated IDs are a misfeature of nml
20:48:28  <nielsm> and make that assign ids as well
20:48:38  <andythenorth> use the sort order, then fold them up if they're in the same group
20:48:39  <andythenorth> really nice
20:49:03  <andythenorth> it's just a tree, and groups create a branch rule
20:53:59  <LordAro> hmm, 0.7 is segfaulting when loading an AI
20:55:47  <andythenorth> oof I need to fit 2 more stations in :)
20:55:52  <andythenorth> I can station walk I guess
20:59:33  <frosch123> LordAro: just move your .openttd folder somewhere where it cannot find it
21:00:04  <frosch123> andythenorth: why can't you add more platforms to existing stations?
21:00:15  <andythenorth> cargo sprites
21:00:27  <andythenorth> I can though
21:00:41  <frosch123> oh.... that old issue
21:01:14  <andythenorth> I've also been playing with 'refit any available' in some cases
21:01:30  <andythenorth> which works great, except when cdist (rarely) creates an unwanted link
21:01:35  <andythenorth> which can then never be removed
21:01:45  <andythenorth> one mitigation is to not mix stations
21:01:46  <LordAro> frosch123: i'd rather fix whatever's causing it to crash :)
21:01:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7892: Fix #7891: really check the vehicle type before casting
21:02:08  <frosch123> LordAro: somewhen you fixed and read-beyond-eof in the tar reader
21:03:08  <LordAro> frosch123: pretty sure it's not that
21:03:14  <LordAro> somehow it's segfaulting in strdup
21:03:27  <LordAro> with a pointer that i'm reasonably certain is not null, or otherwise invalid
21:04:23  <frosch123> is strdup from a different library than malloc?
21:04:54  <LordAro> nope
21:05:18  <frosch123> is the string properly zero-terminated?
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21:06:01  <LordAro> frosch123:
21:06:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7892: Fix #7891: really check the vehicle type before casting
21:07:24  <LordAro> frosch123: yup
21:09:54  <frosch123> out of standard errors :)
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21:13:17  <LordAro> frosch123: runs fine if i use valgrind
21:13:21  <LordAro> which is a bit annoying
21:14:47  <andythenorth> lol 45k population city
21:14:49  <andythenorth> ridiculous :)
21:15:25  <milek7_> maybe try with -fsanitize=address
21:15:34  <frosch123> andythenorth: i have no context, but there is an ancient coop blog about how to grow cities with millions
21:16:44  <andythenorth> I had city growth on high for some reason
21:20:51  <LordAro> milek7_: works, but i'm compiling 0.7 here, there are going to be issues :)
21:22:13  <LordAro> valgrind indicates there's an invalid free in the window/widget code
21:22:22  <LordAro> which is a long way away from the script code
21:22:31  <andythenorth> town hates me, so I bulldoze 16x16 of buildings with magic bulldozer
21:22:33  <andythenorth> build trees
21:22:38  <andythenorth> town loves me
21:22:43  <andythenorth> it's a reddit post waiting to happen
21:25:05  <frosch123> bulldoze the road piece under the town sign :)
21:25:26  <andythenorth> magic bulldozer solves all problems
21:25:46  <andythenorth> I tried faffing around with that 'remove more town owned stuff' setting
21:25:58  <andythenorth> but it doesn't seem to do anything useful, so magic bulldozer
21:26:08  <andythenorth> I just need an equivalent 'magic town ratings fixer'
21:26:19  <frosch123> with that setting turned off you get the original ttd behaviour
21:26:27  <frosch123> in ttd you can only remove dead ends
21:26:34  <andythenorth> oh how nice :)
21:26:38  <frosch123> once there is a circle in a road, it is meant to stay
21:26:43  <andythenorth> such great and well balanced game mechanics :)
21:26:47  <andythenorth> so high score
21:30:35  <andythenorth> I have played current OpenTTD game for > 80 game years
21:30:41  <andythenorth> quite rare to go so long, no GS either
21:35:18  <andythenorth> 35MB :P,%2024-05-2017.png
21:37:37  <LordAro> frosch123: amazingly, this was the required fix
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21:38:42  <frosch123> wow, you found it :) i assumed the gui code changed so heavily before and after 0.7 that it would be impossible to find
21:39:30  <LordAro> how that causes a strdup to segfault, i'll never know
21:39:35  <LordAro> yay for stack corruption
21:39:45  <frosch123> commit message of 06d7d63216d7e5e2265353c7b45dbf6d7bafa3a7 tells you
21:39:52  <frosch123> it's the optimiser removing code
21:40:28  <LordAro> the comment in the code tells me as well :)
21:40:38  <LordAro> i feel like i've run into that before
21:40:40  <frosch123> that's too long, i did not read it
21:40:43  <LordAro> :p
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21:40:49  <LordAro> 0.7
21:44:33  <milek7_> "The delete operator is overwritten to not delete it;"
21:44:37  <milek7_> seems weird..
21:45:09  <frosch123> delayed deallocation magic
21:45:55  <frosch123> it's used to solve issues like "close windows and nested windows while iterating over all windows"
21:47:49  <frosch123> but yes, you can probably remove all deletes and replace them with some method "MarkForDestruction" or similar
21:50:31  <andythenorth> hmm, really capacity pax vehicles for later game?
21:50:40  <andythenorth> all my stations have 3k-5k pax waiting
21:50:45  <frosch123> funnily ottd also has the reverse concept to "use data after destruction". pools initialise the "index" member before calling the constructor, and the constructor has to make sure to POD-not-initialise that member :p
21:51:20  <andythenorth> cdist network with 7 nodes connected, probably too many
21:51:32  <andythenorth> cdist is probably much better with point-to-point
21:51:37  <andythenorth> 2 node networks
21:51:56  <frosch123> can you flip those nodes with ctrl+click?
21:52:19  * andythenorth tries
21:52:31  <andythenorth> I might be doing it wrong, but I can't
21:52:44  <andythenorth> I have a 3 node network, only 2k pax waiting per station
21:52:58  <andythenorth> so the conclusion is, cdist requires non-connected stations
21:53:24  <andythenorth> well, maybe 1 connection :P
21:54:22  <andythenorth> this?
21:56:50  <LordAro> frosch123: yeah but those use pools and placement new stuff properly, rather than the use-after-free stuff that the windows use
21:57:47  <frosch123> use-before-init is just as bad
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22:06:40  <milek7_> curious if this is guaranteed to be correct
22:06:48  <milek7_> or if compiler is allowed to also remove other assigments from that destructor if it wants
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22:11:43  <milek7_>
22:11:43  <milek7_> "[...] after the lifetime of an object has ended and before the storage which the object occupied is reused or released, the following uses of the glvalue expression that identifies that object are undefined: [...] Access to a non-static data member or a call to a non-static member function. "
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22:31:48  <andythenorth> something in this bit of the map is killing fps :)
22:31:56  <andythenorth> this bit is ok
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22:53:38  * andythenorth suspects BED
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23:06:16  <Samu> i have too many river related patches even I get confused
23:20:07  <Samu> im working on something big
23:20:10  <Samu> lel
23:20:35  <Samu> [img]
23:21:02  <Samu> everything I got here together
23:21:16  <Samu> cherry-pick sometimes is dumb
23:22:09  <Samu> do you see anything interesting?
23:25:42  <Samu> i still have more, but cherry pick is being picky...
23:25:52  <Samu> will have to sort them out
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23:40:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7587: Crash on loading saved game from #1131
23:41:05  <LordAro> ^ the reason i spent the whole evening compiling old OTTD versions
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