Log for #openttd on 11th January 2020:
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06:19:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on issue #7830: Load font from openttd config file directory, not from working directory.
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07:18:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on issue #7814: More track for the same cost
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08:09:25  <andythenorth> bed happened
08:09:29  <andythenorth> now over
08:13:24  <Pikka> so over
08:13:35  <Pikka> it's been done
08:16:13  <andythenorth> did you finish Horse for me?
08:19:18  <andythenorth> just 46 more trains to draw :P
08:32:22  <Pikka> ez
08:34:13  <andythenorth> how many more for UKRS 99?
08:38:46  <Pikka> ummm... 4 or 5 I think.
08:39:21  <Pikka> pannier, q1, pacific, 14 and 91
08:39:36  <andythenorth> race you? :)
08:39:38  <Pikka> and I'm thinking about replacing the 60 with an EMD just to break up the Brush love
08:39:53  <Pikka> if you like. ;) I'm aiming for April.
08:40:04  <andythenorth> :)
08:40:17  <andythenorth> @calc 46/2
08:40:18  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 23
08:40:42  <andythenorth> avg was 2 per day for Iron Horse 2
08:40:48  <andythenorth> might be done by Feb :P
08:42:33  <Pikka> o/
08:49:07  <andythenorth> hurrah
08:49:08  <andythenorth>
08:49:20  <andythenorth> I made the tech tree show 1cc or 2cc optionally
08:49:39  <andythenorth> the 1CC is easier to read, but doesn't show the variations
09:07:18  <peter1138> Playing on some Reddit OpenTTD server.
09:07:26  <andythenorth> o_O
09:07:34  * andythenorth mistakes were made
09:07:35  <peter1138> No cargodist :(
09:07:59  <peter1138> Global warming, eh?
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09:13:56  <andythenorth> reddit servers are reporting down
09:13:58  <andythenorth> oof
09:14:21  <andythenorth> can't be true
09:16:09  <andythenorth> new factory!
09:18:03  <andythenorth> oof industries are quite closey
09:20:47  * andythenorth breakfast?
09:25:12  <peter1138> Oh, I just had to explain DMU, heh.
09:25:17  <peter1138> Maybe I should just keep quiet.
09:28:02  <andythenorth> I stopped spectating :)
09:37:25  <FLHerne> peter1138: Odd, I think reddit S1 had Cargodist for pax/mail last time I did that
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09:40:43  <andythenorth> does the industry spam get annoying?
09:41:33  <andythenorth> oh I got kicked
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09:43:31  <andythenorth> wow these train stats aren't even realistic
09:43:48  <andythenorth> A4 should be 126mph and 2000hp
09:44:28  * andythenorth quits the server, the industry message spam is insane
09:44:37  <andythenorth> can't be arsed to change my news setting :D
09:46:41  <peter1138> Hmm?
09:47:17  <nielsm> probably smooth economy making industries change production all the time
09:47:21  <nielsm> causing massive news spam
09:49:00  <peter1138> I moved on to Heretic and then iRacing. Gaming loyalty...
09:49:47  <andythenorth> the reddit map is 1024x2048 and terrain looks ok
09:49:56  * andythenorth wonders if TGP is tuned for large map sizes
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09:50:28  <nielsm> it probably is
09:50:36  <peter1138> It's a crap terrain.
09:51:02  <andythenorth> you don't like the impassable mountains + everything else is flat?
09:51:30  <peter1138> Not enough ocean
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09:56:55  <nielsm> map generator idea: scripted, the script returns a bunch of control points (either in a fixed grid, or freely placed) with each point setting height and something about landscape type
09:57:27  <nielsm> and it also returns arrays of town positions and industry positions
09:57:52  <andythenorth> mumble mumble rivers
09:58:15  <nielsm> yeah... they probably also need to be specified in some way
09:58:25  <andythenorth> and then between control points, what?  A transform per tile?  Or random?
10:00:40  <nielsm> some general code fills in with interpolation
10:00:56  <nielsm> one of the parameters I imagine for control points is rough/smooth
10:02:36  <nielsm> transport fever 2 has three distinct landscape generators, one for temperate, one for desert, and one for tropical islands
10:03:01  <nielsm> the first two are based around running a river through the map, placing some lakes, and some hills and mountains
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10:08:12  <nielsm> ofc it also has much more freedom in what kind of maps it can make
10:08:15  <nielsm> like
10:08:15  <Samu> hi
10:09:04  <andythenorth> "river runs through it"
10:10:09  <nielsm> the big limitation of (o)ttd terrain always remains the need to be smooth
10:12:04  * andythenorth wonders
10:12:26  <andythenorth> perlin noise is the default approach to procedural terrain
10:12:43  <andythenorth> but I think it sucks
10:13:23  <andythenorth> it's used to make freeform mesh landscapes seem more organic, fine
10:13:36  <nielsm> for a game the terrain needs to be interesting
10:13:38  <andythenorth> but we don't have a freeform mesh, we have regular polygons
10:14:01  <nielsm> interesting to play on, that is
10:14:03  <andythenorth> yes
10:14:07  <andythenorth> which I think needs designed
10:14:17  <andythenorth> throwing perlin noise or gaussian or whatever at the slopes
10:14:17  <andythenorth> meh
10:14:52  <andythenorth> so scripting 'features'? o_O
10:15:07  <andythenorth> 'cone volcano island'
10:15:09  <andythenorth> 'big bay'
10:15:18  <andythenorth> 'canyon system'
10:15:21  <nielsm> could we change the savegame format and spend one or more of the high bits in the heightmap array to mean "tile is flat"?
10:15:29  <andythenorth> then interpolate between the feautures :P
10:15:35  <nielsm> to get some kind of natural ridge-like stuff
10:15:56  <andythenorth> we're pretty good at getting large bland plateaus currently :P
10:16:19  <peter1138> You can perform functions on top of perlin to make ridges
10:17:06  <nielsm> problem is that ottd can not represent ridges :)
10:18:00  <peter1138> True but even smoothed out ridges are better than just random lumpy landmasses.
10:18:02  <nielsm> "this tile has natural foundations" kind of, is what I mean
10:18:19  <andythenorth> so cliffs
10:18:23  <nielsm> yes
10:19:59  <Wolf01> First we need map rotation, or you won't see anything you build behind a ridge
10:20:19  <peter1138> Transparent rendering ;)
10:20:32  <andythenorth> can we see behind foundations?
10:20:35  * andythenorth tests
10:20:45  <Wolf01> That could be an option
10:21:07  <LordAro> or fake cliffs that are just unpassable
10:21:12  <andythenorth> can see behind foundations except for – angle
10:21:49  <nielsm> scenario editor really needs some more paintbrush like terrain tools
10:21:59  <Wolf01> That too
10:22:04  <Wolf01> I have a patch
10:22:31  <Wolf01> Feel free to get it from my repo
10:27:35  <nielsm> also I want stuff like this:
10:27:40  <nielsm> (that's "rivers")
10:28:09  <Wolf01> Only if they can flood lower areas
10:28:10  <nielsm> (hand placed on a modified tgp)
10:30:03  <nielsm> I want the terrain generator to fill local low points with lakes, like this:
10:30:05  <andythenorth> where's eddi's river patch
10:31:00  <andythenorth> got stalebotted
10:32:09  <nielsm> qqw
10:32:12  <nielsm> wow
10:32:14  <andythenorth> nielsm: can we divide the map into sectors, and take a local water table height?
10:32:15  <nielsm>
10:32:33  <andythenorth> o_O
10:33:25  <nielsm> simulate water filling up a local low in the point by raising the base terrain and putting water on top
10:33:30  <Eddi|zuHause> there need to be halftile rivers on the lower end of a diagonal slope
10:33:40  <Eddi|zuHause> and rivers flowing down diagonal slopes
10:33:56  <nielsm> also, make a flag on river tiles to make them indestructible, or have a fake depth that needs to be filled with dirt (which is stupidly expensive) to remove it
10:34:01  <nielsm> that too
10:34:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that would simplify river generation by a ton
10:34:27  <LordAro> nielsm: it's not possible to have actual water tiles there, rather than river tiles, is it?
10:34:43  <nielsm> LordAro, river tiles are just water tiles with height > 0 afaik
10:35:19  <Eddi|zuHause> river tiles are water tiles that do not flood
10:35:36  <andythenorth> river removal remains 'interesting'
10:35:39  <Eddi|zuHause> they don't have to have height > 0
10:35:46  <andythenorth> I often just bulldoze rivers for game reasons
10:36:18  <LordAro> andythenorth: pretty sure they show by unmovable
10:36:32  <LordAro> should*
10:36:33  <nielsm> lots of free bits on water tiles too
10:36:44  <nielsm> could easily find room to store "depth"
10:37:01  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: that's too restrictive, imho you should be able to reroute rivers through canals
10:37:33  <nielsm> ideally river springs should have a constant flow, if you fill/dam a river somewhere, it will flow around
10:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> which would mean we need to mark sources and drains, and check that all sources are connected to a drain
10:37:53  <nielsm> and then we're into dwarf fortress territory
10:38:20  <andythenorth> there's a patch for that?
10:38:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think flooding is needed, just making the river indestructible if there is no bypass
10:39:19  <andythenorth> this nose shape is a right pisser to draw in pixels
10:39:32  <andythenorth> also, 1 tile locks
10:39:38  <andythenorth> or placeable weir / rapids
10:39:43  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause, that would mean running a potentially expensive pathfinder when you destroy river tiles
10:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it should be ok to run expensive operations on user interaction
10:40:50  <Eddi|zuHause> and it can probably be simplified if you store the river flow direction
10:41:10  <nielsm> hmm yes, river tiles could store their distance from the main flow
10:41:42  <andythenorth> rivers that carve landscape :P
10:41:51  <nielsm> perhaps just up to 6 or 14, capped at 7 or 15 if they are not part of a flow
10:41:54  <andythenorth> rivers that aren't 1 tile wide forever
10:41:57  <Samu> 8>Running ai/regression/tst_regression... passed!
10:42:00  <Samu> success
10:42:36  <Samu> and that's one more setting :o
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10:44:51  <nielsm> yeah stuff like this
10:45:35  <nielsm> except also with halftile pieces
10:46:00  <andythenorth> I started drawing those once
10:46:11  <andythenorth> but then I got into one of those silly irc arguments and rage quit
10:46:16  <andythenorth> deleted the repo :(
10:46:19  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
10:46:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, halftile pieces are the highest priority
10:46:34  <LordAro> the pathfinder operation for re-rivering doesn't need to run to completion, just needs to find the next downslope
10:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause> basically every attempt at rivers i had was ultimately thwarted by the lack of those
10:46:45  <andythenorth>
10:46:46  <LordAro> though that still wouldn't work for extremely flat maps, i guess
10:46:52  <andythenorth> stupid rivers
10:46:58  <LordAro> could just limit it to 20 tiles distance or something
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10:48:08  <andythenorth> oh there's a river tiles repo eh
10:48:35  <andythenorth> I tried improving curves, even  without half-tile
10:49:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not about the look. it's about the freedom to place rivers on any map tile
10:50:39  <andythenorth> yes
10:50:48  <andythenorth> I am +1 to half-tiles, I understand the issue
10:51:07  <andythenorth> the basic appearance of curves could be improved without them though, but I didn't find it worth the work
10:52:13  <nielsm> halftile rivers could possibly even re-use the ocean halftile graphics?
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10:56:39  <nielsm> okay, no.
10:57:21  <LordAro> well not without additional sprites :p
10:57:38  <nielsm> my thought was that maybe it could work without additional sprites
11:02:55  <andythenorth> sprites can be drawn
11:03:14  <andythenorth> I did rivers, it took a couple of days due to climate variations, but basically fine
11:03:22  <nielsm> haha awesome... the danish translation uses at least three different terms for AI players
11:08:11  <Pikka> ew rivers
11:08:38  <Pikka> I suppose they need to be done...
11:10:41  <nielsm> oh lol this revision...
11:10:50  <nielsm> the web translator seems to have broken that day
11:12:24  <LordAro> ha
11:14:17  * andythenorth bodges some sprites
11:15:10  <andythenorth> just 44 trains to draw@
11:15:49  <LordAro> andythenorth: time for another redesign?
11:16:04  <andythenorth> nah, not until 98%
11:16:50  <andythenorth> if we do livery groups, I'll have to redesign the whole grf :)
11:17:03  <andythenorth> like when auto-refit destroyed FISH :)
11:17:11  <andythenorth> so livery groups then? o_O
11:20:09  <nielsm> I should go out and get some air and sunshine while available
11:21:39  <LordAro> pfft, outside
11:21:41  <andythenorth>
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11:22:08  <andythenorth> oh there was an update
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11:41:49  <Samu> hey mister _dp_
11:42:06  <Samu> how do i set up this?
11:43:28  <Samu> "simple code", huh
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12:03:46  <Samu> what does a comma do in a return?
12:03:49  <Samu> return samu, TOCC("MoveGoodsToStationSamu", 10);
12:03:56  <Samu> samu is what i want to return
12:09:16  <Samu> TICC TOCC isn't as smart as I expected
12:12:05  <peter1138> They're macros, I doubt putting it after a comma after a return statement will do anything desirable. But you never know.
12:13:43  <Samu> didnt work
12:14:08  <Samu> if i return samu after the TOCC, it says samu is undefined
12:18:48  <Samu> if TOCC is after the return, it isn't reached :(
12:19:57  <peter1138> define samu before the TICC, obviously.
12:21:14  <Samu> wow it seems to work, gonna try
12:21:22  <andythenorth> so how often is the 'trains' window repainted?
12:23:01  <andythenorth> I'm wondering if the perf. issue is the train drawing, or the profit display
12:23:56  <andythenorth> more or fewer groups don't seem to affect fps
12:24:01  <andythenorth> nor groups open or closed
12:24:53  <Samu> TICC TOCC gives me 0 us most of the time
12:25:01  <Samu> gonna try TIC TOC
12:25:09  * andythenorth suspects newgrf though
12:25:19  <andythenorth> the plane window with AV8 barely slows
12:25:31  <andythenorth> the ship window with my ship grf is horrible fps
12:25:36  <andythenorth> the RV window barely slows
12:25:41  <andythenorth> the train window nails fps to the floor
12:26:25  <peter1138> Let's see if my company is still alive.
12:26:40  <peter1138> Ooh, it is.
12:27:00  <peter1138> peter1138 MIGHT BE CONNECTING VIA A PROXY IN GB. I can guarantee I'm not :P
12:29:24  <Samu> dbg: [misc] [MoveGoodsToStationSamu] 905242 [avg: 9052.4]
12:29:24  <Samu> dbg: [misc] [MoveGoodsToStationOrig] 220269 [avg: 2202.7]
12:29:34  <Samu> meh, not 8 times slow
12:29:43  <Samu> @calc 9052.4/2202.7
12:29:43  <DorpsGek> Samu: 4.10968357016
12:30:31  <peter1138> Such slow
12:34:37  <andythenorth> such slow compile
12:37:08  <andythenorth> ok the vehicle window fps is caused either (1) by any vehicles in motion or (2) newgrf vehicles in motion
12:37:21  <andythenorth> I sent all trains to depot, fps substantially improved
12:37:29  <andythenorth> I don't have a vanilla game to compare yet :P
12:38:00  <peter1138> I mean... that could be pathfinding...
12:39:09  <andythenorth>
12:41:34  <andythenorth> ok it's not limited to newgrf
12:42:26  * andythenorth trying vanilla trains
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12:46:08  <crazystacy> hi
12:46:37  <andythenorth> digression: having a FIRS industry in the viewport knocks about 20fps off FFWD speed (70-80fps vs 90-100fps)
12:48:15  <andythenorth> ok so vehicle list, (not ffwd): 34fps 150 vanilla trains stopped, 25fps 150 trains started
12:48:30  <andythenorth> windowshading the vehicle list restores fps to 34
12:48:35  <andythenorth> might be a sideshow though
12:49:11  <andythenorth> I wondered about the profit / usage display initially, as drawing text appears to be slow, but deleting that widget makes no difference
12:50:02  <crazystacy> hm, i fixed the choochoo ai, but the original author is gone, what could i do?
12:56:29  <Samu> call him
13:00:24  <LordAro> crazystacy: not a lot, really
13:00:38  <LordAro> other than publish your fixed version under a different name (licence permitting)
13:00:54  <LordAro> admiralai has similar issues
13:01:13  <crazystacy> i will upload a patch on the forum i suppose. i at least saw 1 person complaining only 1 month ago so maybe this person will benefit
13:01:36  <crazystacy> what happens is AIVehicle.GetName(vehicleId) // vehicleId is int returns null
13:01:57  <crazystacy> not sure if the API changed or if it could always return null
13:03:14  <LordAro> shouldn't have changed, if it has then there's a compatibility issue that's missing
13:05:04  <crazystacy> other problem was that Road Pathfinder was updated to v4 and it looks for v3
13:05:23  <crazystacy> not sure how libraries work, are they automagically downloaded when i download an AI? because i found the tarballs in my .openttd directory
13:05:55  <LordAro> yeah, dependencies are downloaded at the same time
13:14:39  <andythenorth> savegame runs at 21x FFWD with trains stopped
13:14:57  <andythenorth> 4x FFWD with trains started
13:15:22  <andythenorth> interesting eh
13:21:41  <andythenorth> Pikka: how do steam trains pixel? :P
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13:37:33  <Pikka> ummm
13:37:39  <Pikka> roundly? :)
13:37:49  <peter1138> Round pixels, yes.
13:37:55  <Pikka> yes
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13:42:13  <andythenorth> mine all look the same
13:42:17  <andythenorth> that can be fixed
13:42:33  <andythenorth> deasils are offer more options :P
13:44:04  <crazystacy> there are tournaments? for AI? for players?
13:44:28  <crazystacy> andythenorth, do you base your trains on real trains?
13:44:44  <andythenorth> somewhat
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13:54:18  <Samu> i just realised MoveGoodsToStation is called an insurmountable amount of times
13:54:41  <Samu> even if it's moving 0 amounts or 0 stations around at all
13:55:00  <Samu> any tile on the map that produces cargo, calls it
13:55:37  <_dp_> Samu, it immediately returns in those cases so should be optimized out
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13:57:58  <Samu> dbg: [misc] [MoveGoodsToStationOrig] 105527 [avg: 1055.3]
13:57:58  <_dp_> why is it called with 0 amounts tho?
13:57:59  <Samu> dbg: [misc] [MoveGoodsToStationSamu] 184096 [avg: 1841.0]
13:57:59  <Samu> dbg: [misc] [MoveGoodsToStationSOld] 241123 [avg: 2411.2]
13:58:42  <Samu> TIC TOC here
13:58:57  <Samu> some houses
13:59:02  <Samu> want to move 0
13:59:15  <Samu> i suspect that
14:01:02  <Samu> i can't use 1 build to test the times of 3 different methods
14:01:35  <Samu> because of UpdateStationWaiting
14:03:09  <Samu> i need 3 builds running in parallel with each method
14:08:49  <crazystacy> trying ShipAI makes me realise how decent ships are :P
14:25:25  <Samu> [img][/img]
14:25:30  <Samu> finally getting results that make sense
14:32:09  <Samu> stupid bugs
14:32:34  <Samu> loading a save randomizes random settings :( why isn't it fixed yet :(
14:33:49  <Samu> i knew there was something suspicious about the screenshots
14:35:13  <Samu>
14:35:16  <Samu> this bug
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15:10:02  <Samu> funny stuff that happens in reality. with 14 Convoys as AI
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15:11:07  <Samu> my old method, which was supposed to make every station receive equal amounts based on rating, is resulting in 1 convoy company being ahead of every other
15:11:48  <Samu> and the original method results so far in more companies above £0 profit
15:12:49  <Samu> gonna let this evolve 5 years or so before i jump into conlcusions
15:13:54  <Samu> after all, the AIs still react accordingly
15:14:07  <Samu> no profit routes are eliminated
15:14:14  <Samu> new routes are created, etc..
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15:33:40  <LordAro> Samu: re 7486 - i agree with niels - why not just remove the rerandomise block on script (re)load?
15:38:57  <Samu> I don't know
15:39:23  <Samu> they're needed
15:43:31  <Samu> I can't remove the randomize block there
15:44:00  <Samu> the way the load game is set up, it will call the Change function
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15:48:19  <Samu> I don't know how to answer that
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15:54:42  <crazystacy2> uint16 does not name a type, assert was not declared in this scope
15:57:41  <_dp_> crazystacy2, I've no idea what are you doing but did you include stdafx.h?
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15:58:26  <crazystacy2> tried to add two new source files, added to source.list
15:58:36  <crazystacy2> i will try that _dp_
15:59:07  <nielsm> all files in ottd should include stdafx.h
15:59:14  <nielsm> as the first thing
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16:00:51  <_dp_> nielsm, cpp files
16:00:57  <crazystacy2> oh. i see that now.
16:01:19  <crazystacy2> it was odd because the cpp file was empty and .h file included some other headers (i basically tried to copy an existing file, and gutted everything except 3 headers)
16:01:41  <crazystacy2> i'll wait for the compile to finish
16:03:04  <frosch123> stdafx.h is first, safeguards.h is last, for all files
16:04:19  <crazystacy2> ok. thanks
16:07:14  <crazystacy2> now it works :P
16:07:25  <crazystacy2> i still had my own header file above stdafx.
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16:25:20  <Samu> _dp_, [img][/img] 3 different methods, orig is original, samu is that of pr, samuold is that of my old PR.
16:25:49  <Samu> I am not sure if these profits were to be expected
16:25:54  <Samu> perhaps they are
16:26:18  <Samu> I also not sure of my methodology of getting TIC/TOC measurements
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16:34:18  <peter1138> Oh. Orbx updater decided to take over my computer whilst playing ETS 2... so I have 97% truck damage, and my cargo is wrecked too :(
16:36:58  <LordAro> did you fall off a cliff?
16:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause> still 3% to go :p
16:40:06  <andythenorth> call rescue!
16:40:21  <andythenorth> or just edit the save file, it's human-editable in ETS 1
16:47:43  <andythenorth> after about 8 real hours driving, I get bored and gift myself loads of money
16:47:47  <andythenorth> then I do more driving :P
16:47:51  <andythenorth> weird game ETS 1
16:49:49  <zvxb> cheater
16:50:18  <peter1138> I don't think it is in ETS 2, but I have enough money to not care anyway.
16:50:29  <peter1138> The multiplayer mod messes it up.
16:51:41  <nielsm>   continue (Y/N)?
16:52:20  <peter1138> heh
16:52:25  <LordAro> oho
16:54:12  <andythenorth> continue
16:54:15  <andythenorth> see what happens
16:58:48  <nielsm> hm should water depth "flood" or maybe rather "normalise" in some way? perhaps via tile loop?
16:59:02  <nielsm> such that over time you get an even gradient of depth from shore out
17:00:26  <andythenorth> what's the upside?
17:00:31  <andythenorth> long shore drift? o_O
17:00:49  <andythenorth>
17:12:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7922: Improved logic of sharing industry production between stations
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17:29:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain opened pull request #1: First version of a few actions
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17:29:59  <TrueBrain> in case anyone is bored, and wants to review a bit of typescripting, comments are welcome :)
17:32:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #140: Add: [Actions] switch to our own actions instead of writing them out
17:33:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #140: Add: [Actions] switch to our own actions instead of writing them out
17:33:37  <glx> oh stuff to read :)
17:34:11  <TrueBrain> that was an interesting experience :)
17:37:32  <Samu> yay approved!
17:41:21  <crazystacy2> SDL2 support is brand-new?
17:41:46  <crazystacy2> noticed when compiling 1.9.3 as opposed to master
17:41:50  <nielsm> it's after 1.9
17:41:53  <crazystacy2> nice :)
17:42:06  <nielsm> was merged in september or so
17:43:42  <Samu> nielsm, - I don't know what you want me to do. Can you do it for me?
17:50:59  <nielsm>
17:51:01  <nielsm> how's that
17:52:07  <Samu> more costs to clearing water
17:52:37  <nielsm> yes one effect possible :)
17:53:01  <nielsm> also I made a silly thing where ship depots can only be built on at most 40 m depth
17:53:33  <nielsm> and oil rigs should maybe only build on high depths
17:55:00  <crazystacy2> there's depth?
17:56:15  <Samu> should I split 7486?
17:56:31  <Samu> it's solving 2 issues in 1 pr
17:56:43  <Samu> cus they're related :(
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18:08:09  <hythlodaeus_> hi guys
18:08:18  <hythlodaeus_> STR_REPLACE_HELP_LEFT_ARRAY                                     :{BLACK}Select the engine type to replace
18:08:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] glx22 commented on pull request #1: First version of a few actions
18:08:50  <hythlodaeus_> STR_REPLACE_HELP_RIGHT_ARRAY                                    :{BLACK}Select the new engine type you would like to use in place of the engine type selected to the left
18:09:05  <hythlodaeus_> i would like to suggest changing these strings
18:09:29  <hythlodaeus_> the word "engine" should be replaced by "vehicle" as to avoid translation confusion
18:09:51  <hythlodaeus_> bc this string is being used for both road vehicles and trains
18:11:23  <Eddi|zuHause> hythlodaeus_: string can be split into two to improve translations
18:11:48  <hythlodaeus_> could also work
18:12:02  <hythlodaeus_> we would need three then
18:12:10  <hythlodaeus_> one for aircraft too
18:12:30  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc we did something similar in another place
18:12:51  <hythlodaeus_> I think replacing engine with vehicle would work tho
18:12:54  <glx> yeah the "engine" part could be a {STRING}
18:13:56  <hythlodaeus_> that could work too yep
18:14:18  <glx> but I can't remember if we can use the same arg in 2 places :)
18:14:36  <glx> (anyway pushing 2 times the same args work for sure)
18:15:45  <Eddi|zuHause> don't we have {STRING:0} or something like that?
18:16:40  <andythenorth> hmm
18:16:42  <Samu> loading a savegame calls 3 sets of ScriptConfig::Change 's
18:16:47  <glx> yes it's often used to change the order, but I don't know if we can also reuse arg
18:17:03  <Samu> a set is made of 15 configurable AI slots + GS slot
18:17:06  <andythenorth> I played this game for 115 years, that's pretty long
18:17:08  <glx> and it's {0:STRING}
18:17:17  <andythenorth> time for a new ottd game?
18:17:30  <hythlodaeus_> would you like me to create an issue on github for this string matter?
18:17:34  <andythenorth> I want to do pax game to test some Horse vehicles
18:17:40  <andythenorth> but cities fricking suck for so many reasons
18:18:44  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: i was about to write {0:STRING} and switched it up last second...
18:20:52  * andythenorth wonders how to fix cities
18:20:55  <andythenorth> * new layout
18:21:05  <andythenorth> * 'fix' growth somehow
18:21:17  <Samu> this is extremely dificult for me to explain. Following the code with visual studio is easier
18:21:19  <andythenorth> * find solution to cdist
18:21:23  <andythenorth> oof :(
18:21:48  <Samu> it involves settings that the user defined
18:21:52  <Samu> settings left at their defaults
18:22:16  <Samu> and then a mix of those with random deviation, randomrange
18:23:02  <TrueBrain> glx: I tried to do that, but source cannot be outside the src dir, and I don't understand type script enough :D
18:23:29  <Samu> saving settings only saves some of them
18:23:30  <TrueBrain> So yeah, it would be better, I just don't know how
18:24:42  <Samu> then on load, the function ScriptConfig::Change is used to put an AI config in a company "slot"
18:25:09  <Samu> tldr; it's fine the way it is
18:26:49  <Samu> i don't know how to make it unalter AI's that have started already
18:27:29  <Samu> maybe somewhere in ai_sl.cpp
18:27:38  <andythenorth> so cdist
18:27:50  <andythenorth> is it fixable?
18:27:52  <LordAro> Samu: unalter? just don't alter it in the first place
18:28:26  <Samu> it has to configure the slot, because it was been just cleaned blank
18:28:47  <Samu> then during load, it's filled up via ScriptConfig::Change
18:29:25  <Samu> there doesn't seem to be another method to it
18:29:34  <Samu> or I don't know how
18:34:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain commented on pull request #1: First version of a few actions
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18:38:57  <hythlodaeus_> guys i think it's better nd easier if we simple replace "engine" with "vehicle" since STR_REPLACE_VEHICLE_VEHICLES_IN_USE_TOOLTIP   and others in the same window are already using the word vehicle, e.g "Column with vehicles that you own", "Column with vehicles available for replacement"
18:39:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hythlodaeus_: it's not "easier", because some languages have no generic word for "vehicle"
18:39:55  <hythlodaeus_> hmm, is that so?
18:40:09  <hythlodaeus_> well ok, we're gonna need modified versions for this one too
18:43:04  <Samu> an engine and a vehicle in openttd code are 2 different things
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18:45:37  <hythlodaeus_> Samu, this is specifically about the vehicle replacement window
18:45:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
18:45:45  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:45:59  <hythlodaeus_> it's using the word "engine" universally to designate train engines, road vehicles, and aircraft
18:47:04  <Samu> for gui purposes, it can be confusing
18:47:23  <hythlodaeus_> this doesn't work i.e in Portuguese where you cannot use the word "motor" to designate a bus or a truck
18:47:40  <hythlodaeus_> or "locomotiva" for that matter
18:48:07  <andythenorth> bored of this
18:48:20  <Samu> in that window, the code calls them "engines"
18:48:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hezkore commented on issue #7006: Hardware mouse cursor
18:48:27  <andythenorth> I guess I could add some giant pax trains
18:48:59  <andythenorth> but I have some in other cities which are 400 pax per tile length
18:49:06  <andythenorth> and the stations still don't clear
18:49:10  <andythenorth> losing is boring
18:49:25  <andythenorth> 500 pax per coach?
18:52:17  <Samu> ah, you're portuguese?
18:52:24  <Samu> just call it "modelo"
18:52:26  <Samu> :p
18:53:55  <Samu> there was some recent portuguese translations than have undone what I translated... meh, must be u
18:54:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: First version of a few actions
19:00:05  <crazystacy> make an esperanto translation and make everyone learn it
19:00:21  <crazystacy> andythenorth, do you play alone?
19:00:41  <andythenorth> yes
19:01:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: First version of a few actions
19:01:39  <crazystacy> so i should get iron horse 2 i am guessing?
19:01:50  <crazystacy> or are they two separate contents
19:04:57  <frosch123> there is an esperanto translation, but it has not been updated in years
19:05:19  <frosch123> crazystacy:
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19:07:40  <andythenorth> Iron Horse 1 is separate from 2
19:07:47  <andythenorth> for those who don't like 2
19:07:48  <crazystacy> shame for the few thousand speakers
19:07:53  <crazystacy> andythenorth, can they be mixed?
19:08:00  <andythenorth> nothing stops it
19:08:02  <andythenorth> I wouldn't
19:08:07  <crazystacy> i now realised you also made FISH
19:08:16  <crazystacy> my favourite is the harbour point utility vessel
19:09:18  <andythenorth> :)
19:11:10  <TrueBrain> LordAro: fun "fact": when you run "black" over your codebase, flake8 no longer accepts the result :)
19:11:22  <TrueBrain> -    commits_url = commits_url[len(""):]
19:11:22  <TrueBrain> +    commits_url = commits_url[len("") :]
19:11:24  <TrueBrain> it makes boo-boos :)
19:11:50  <LordAro> TrueBrain: yes, black mentions these in its readme
19:11:55  <LordAro> says you should turn those off :p
19:12:38  <TrueBrain> which is ..... well ....
19:12:40  <TrueBrain> what can I say :)
19:14:22  <LordAro> you can read it as well as i can ;)
19:15:07  <Eddi|zuHause> if you feel the need to say "turn off option X" in your readme, why not change the default setting?!?
19:15:22  <TrueBrain> it is stupid :P
19:15:33  <TrueBrain> and who reads readmes ..
19:15:34  <TrueBrain> ffs :P
19:15:38  <TrueBrain> but fair enough LordAro :)
19:15:39  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
19:16:52  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: black says to turn the option in flake8 off
19:17:01  <LordAro> they can't exactly do anything about that
19:19:20  <crazystacy> andythenorth, aren't the metro trains incredibly tiny compared to the tracks?
19:19:35  <andythenorth> not for me
19:20:08  <andythenorth> guess it depends on the track grf
19:21:10  <crazystacy> ah
19:22:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the default tracks are pretty massive
19:23:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain opened pull request #14: Reworked GitHub Actions
19:23:23  <crazystacy> yes, i like the narrow gauge
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19:24:19  <nielsm> andythenorth: do you know/remember how ships that have different speeds in canals, rivers, and on sea implement that?
19:24:41  <nielsm> are they just built in two different top speeds? or does it use a callback to check the underlying tile?
19:24:43  <andythenorth> there is a newgrf property
19:24:46  <andythenorth> I'll look
19:24:48  <crazystacy> i wish there were even more ships
19:25:08  <andythenorth> nielsm: prop 14 and 15
19:25:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain updated pull request #14: Reworked GitHub Actions
19:25:27  <andythenorth> it's not a newgrf cb, but I assume there's an underlying openttd cb
19:25:37  <andythenorth> cb / tile check /s
19:25:43  <andythenorth>
19:27:06  <frosch123> i think yapf also assigns different path costs depending on those speeds
19:31:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
19:32:50  <nielsm> hmm, milestone 1.10.0 is marked as "due by february 1st" on github, we'll have to hurry up to hit that!
19:33:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/binaries-proxy] TrueBrain opened pull request #8: Switch to GitHub Actions
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19:33:21  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we want 1.10 out by last october or something? :p
19:33:26  <nielsm> yeah
19:33:31  <TrueBrain> right ... if these commits are reviewed, I should be able to deploy these to AWS, and I can shut down kubernetes :D
19:33:47  <LordAro> nielsm: it was overdue, i figured i should bump it a bit
19:34:06  <LordAro> TrueBrain: it's quite hard to review 90000 lines of code in a language no one else reads
19:34:16  <TrueBrain> LordAro: try writing them :P
19:34:54  <TrueBrain> I never wrote a Typescript project from scratch before, so yeah .. :P
19:35:11  <TrueBrain> blame GitHub Actions
19:35:14  <crazystacy> typescript? for github?
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19:35:30  <crazystacy> for openttd*
19:35:57  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: a statement i read recently: "We introduced VMs to solve problems with Distributions. We introduced Containers to solve problems with VMs. We introduced Docker to solve problems with Containers. We introduced Kubernetes to solve problems with Docker"
19:36:45  <TrueBrain> well, k8s didn't solve anything ... yet
19:36:49  <Wolf01> The next step should be distributions again
19:36:50  <TrueBrain> it only over-complicated matters
19:37:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain updated pull request #14: Reworked GitHub Actions
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19:39:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/binaries-proxy] TrueBrain merged pull request #8: Switch to GitHub Actions
19:39:51  <TrueBrain> huh?
19:39:53  <TrueBrain> that is .. wrong
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19:42:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/binaries-proxy] TrueBrain opened pull request #9: New actions
19:43:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
19:43:02  <TrueBrain> so that never happened okay?
19:44:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/binaries-proxy] TrueBrain updated pull request #9: Switch to GitHub Actions
19:48:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
20:01:36  <glx> typescript is not that hard to read, it's very similar to JS :)
20:02:04  <TrueBrain> it is vastly more difficult to write, especially if you run a linter over it
20:02:08  <TrueBrain> complains about almost EVERYTHING :P
20:02:44  <glx> I just need to find how to test stuff locally
20:03:44  <TrueBrain> that repo is nearly impossible to test locally
20:03:57  <TrueBrain> <- this runs most of the code
20:04:04  <glx> I can test the building at least
20:04:16  <TrueBrain> npm install
20:04:18  <TrueBrain> npm run all
20:04:27  <TrueBrain> I should add that to the readme
20:07:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: First version of a few actions
20:07:16  <TrueBrain> at least now a few words how to build it locally :)
20:08:09  <glx> yeah with the right command it's easier :)
20:08:47  <TrueBrain> yeah, sorry about that; I should have done that earlier :)
20:09:25  <glx> I tried "npm run build" but the deps were not installed so of course it failed
20:09:43  <glx> I should have try bootstrap ;)
20:11:46  <glx> and of course I get a different output in dist
20:12:01  <TrueBrain> that should not happen
20:12:04  <TrueBrain> everything is pinned
20:12:05  <TrueBrain> so that is odd
20:13:19  <glx> different version of the tools maybe
20:16:20  <TrueBrain> how big is the diff?
20:16:25  <TrueBrain> like everything, or just small parts?
20:16:36  <TrueBrain> (and you did 'npm run all'?)
20:22:44  <TrueBrain> ah, my ncc version is not what I pinned
20:22:46  <TrueBrain> that is interesting
20:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause> NCC 1701?
20:26:31  <TrueBrain> ah, no, ncc is of the correct version, it just reports the wrong one
20:26:32  <TrueBrain> lol
20:27:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: First version of a few actions
20:29:24  <TrueBrain> hmm .. my local path is in the 'dist' file, is that the diff you are seeing glx?
20:29:49  <glx> no the diff was quite big
20:29:59  <TrueBrain> one does not exclude the other :)
20:30:08  <TrueBrain> module.exports can be different, I guess
20:30:12  <glx> but I should retry with current PR version :)
20:42:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 updated pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
20:42:14  <TrueBrain> found how to deal with the absolute paths :)
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20:42:56  <milek7_> hm..
20:43:09  <TrueBrain> please don't go in there
20:44:11  <andythenorth> "something is not right"
20:44:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: First version of a few actions
20:45:07  <TrueBrain> glx: try the latest :) Hopefully that no longer generates a diff
20:49:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
21:04:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 updated pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
21:08:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
21:08:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
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21:16:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
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21:17:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
21:17:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
21:22:06  <hythlodaeus> nielsm: do you think you could have a look at PR #7870? I did the changes you requested, and then some
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21:27:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #7925: A certain save-game corrupts the title screen sprites when loaded.
21:29:43  <Samu> that water depth patch sounds interesting for pathfinder reasons
21:30:06  <Samu> remove water tracks from too deep water = faster pf
21:32:43  <Samu> would make ships navigate more around coasts automagically
21:32:49  <hythlodaeus> water depth can add a whole new level to ships gameplay
21:33:19  <hythlodaeus> would be very nice if, for instance, bigger ships like cargo/tankers couldn't navigate on shallow depths
21:33:43  <hythlodaeus> it greatly affects positioning of ports IRL
21:34:30  <nielsm> the tile loop depth evening out thing I have in right now should probably not stay, at least not at the rate it works currently
21:34:48  <nielsm> it makes depth not important enough
21:35:03  <andythenorth> depth as distance to coast?
21:35:08  <andythenorth> what does depth even do?
21:35:10  <andythenorth> :)
21:35:11  <nielsm> depth should generally be something that exists from worldgen, not something that happens on its own
21:35:19  <andythenorth> can I dredge?
21:35:24  <nielsm> (except over the course of decades)
21:35:52  <andythenorth> if we added non-navigable depths to sea
21:36:00  <andythenorth> then building ports does get more interesting
21:36:08  <andythenorth> channels would need creating
21:36:56  <nielsm> andythenorth can you make water sprite variations that indicate deeper water levels? :D
21:37:13  <andythenorth> not trivially
21:37:19  <andythenorth> the usual approach is to change water colour
21:37:23  <andythenorth> but eh
21:37:52  <andythenorth> green water vs blue water
21:37:58  <andythenorth>
21:38:00  <glx> TrueBrain: still big diff
21:38:19  <andythenorth> also
21:38:45  <TrueBrain> glx: post part of diff somewhere?
21:38:46  <Samu> or instead of removing water tracks, maybe make bigger pathfinder penalties
21:38:50  <hythlodaeus> In order for depth to look good, tiles would have to animated in a way to transition seamlessly tho
21:39:15  <hythlodaeus> otherwise we'll have rough edges all over the place
21:39:39  <nielsm> yes there would have to be some transition pieces between the different water tile sprites
21:40:23  <hythlodaeus> that would work yeah
21:40:29  <hythlodaeus> nielsm: kindly peep my request for a PR review :)
21:40:50  <nielsm> sorry not right now, semi-busy
21:41:21  <hythlodaeus> no worries
21:41:41  <Samu> also, different ship speeds depending on depth it is in
21:41:54  <Samu> wow, so much genius idea
21:42:24  <Samu> in the end this all results in nerfs for ships :p
21:42:53  <glx> TrueBrain: it's one of the smaller diff (1450 lines)
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21:44:23  <hythlodaeus> with water depth added, ships can become almost as complex as trains, and planning routes would become important
21:44:54  <hythlodaeus> wouldn't be able to sail a tanker in a 1 tile canal for example
21:45:09  <glx> seems the files are generated in a different way
21:46:33  <supermop_Home_> hythlodaeus: water depth in game:
21:47:05  <TrueBrain> Tnx glx. Interesting. What happens if you run 'npm run clean && npm run all'?
21:47:27  <TrueBrain> Don't know enough about web webpack to understand what these numbers means
21:48:23  <TrueBrain> I also wonder if it matters
21:49:32  <supermop_Home_> apparently some of my old Pizzicato 5 CDs would be worth like 0 now
21:49:42  <TrueBrain> For now I am going to ignore it. First I want it done; after that we can optimise
21:49:44  <hythlodaeus> aha oh wow
21:49:51  <hythlodaeus> man the aral sea is such a tragedy
21:54:19  <andythenorth> buy menu vehicle groups might help this horror
21:55:25  <hythlodaeus> can, I ask, why not implementing type icons as some newgrfs already do?
21:55:50  <hythlodaeus> XUSSR for example, uses icons to distinguish between diesel, electric, etc
21:56:07  <hythlodaeus> and you can combine them better as well for hybrid locos
21:56:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
21:57:45  <hythlodaeus> lol
22:01:03  <LordAro> #7925 is an impressive amount of breakage
22:01:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
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22:02:08  <glx> LordAro: yeah seems it massively corrupts memory
22:02:47  <LordAro> to valgrind!
22:03:59  <andythenorth> I guess if your favourite thing is finding esoteric bugs
22:04:05  <andythenorth> adding more settings doesn't scare you at all
22:04:16  <crazystacy> why do water tiles have depth
22:04:23  * crazystacy reads backlog
22:05:15  <nielsm> crazystacy they don't, yet
22:05:30  <nielsm> except in the new feature I tried develping today
22:05:41  <crazystacy> i meant, what is the purpose
22:05:44  <crazystacy> i like it, i like boats
22:06:00  <nielsm> the purpose is to make water more interesting and more challenging
22:06:27  <nielsm> deep tiles can be more expensive to fill in, making water more challenging to get past
22:06:41  <nielsm> deep tiles can be required for certain industries, or perhaps certain ships
22:06:48  <crazystacy> ah. so you could terraform "down" in water?
22:06:49  <nielsm> shallow water can be required for certain other things
22:07:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
22:07:12  <nielsm> maybe, somehow
22:07:18  <nielsm> not right now :)
22:07:33  <crazystacy> in the future
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22:13:56  <hythlodaeus> tbh i always felt that ships were crazy neglected in TTD
22:14:39  <hythlodaeus> like Chris Sawyer spent 70% of his time on trains and then decided to do ships at last minute just because
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22:16:46  <nielsm> I tried making a depth check for oil rigs construction, but turned out to be pointless, at least currently, since they already have the "water check zone" around them
22:17:06  <nielsm> which is why it isn't part of that PR right now
22:18:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
22:19:37  <LordAro> hahahaha
22:19:54  <nielsm> did we finally make clearing water sufficiently expensive?
22:20:17  <nielsm> but, the Money type used for all costs should protect against overflows
22:20:21  <nielsm> so it's not a problem
22:20:38  <Samu> doesn't protect underflow someone told me
22:21:30  <LordAro> yeah, this is true
22:22:09  <Samu> i had a company into the negative so much that it suddenly became quadrillionaire the next month
22:28:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
22:30:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
22:34:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
22:35:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
22:38:10  <Samu> GetMaxTrackSpeed
22:38:57  <Samu> doesn't exist for water
22:43:07  <nielsm> what determines a water vessel's top speed?
22:44:30  <nielsm> friction (depends on vessel shape)
22:44:33  <nielsm> ability to handle bad weather (depends on vessel shape and local conditions which might be modeled by depth)
22:45:29  <nielsm> ability to turn and/or stop (depends on vessel shape, and possibly distance to coast/shallows)
22:46:03  <nielsm> I don't think it makes sense to have speed limits as such on water
22:46:20  <nielsm> well maybe canals/near bridges
22:50:46  <Samu> i was thinking, slower speeds near coasts
22:51:23  <Samu> faster speeds when it is walking on water with some more depth
22:52:01  <Samu> pathfinder would also need to be adjusted, have increased costs on lower depth tiles
22:52:19  <nielsm> there's a better way
22:52:20  <hythlodaeus> don't forget currents
22:52:21  <Samu> and lesser costs on water with more depth
22:52:35  <nielsm> ships can already have different speeds on ocean and on river/canal
22:52:41  <hythlodaeus> and wind of course
22:52:58  <nielsm> change the meaning of those two speeds to "on depth" and "on shallows" instead
22:53:10  <nielsm> then the pathfinder will already prefer routes that can use the faster speed
22:53:38  <hythlodaeus> currents play a huge role both in rivers an oceans. a boat travelling upstream and thus against current will obviously go much slower
22:53:54  <hythlodaeus> or at least require more engine effort
22:53:56  <nielsm> additionally we could introduce a callback for ships to ask it what its speed on a particular tile would be
22:54:07  <Samu> there is no currents, but i notice that waters have random bits
22:54:19  <nielsm> unfortunately we don't have flow in water, at least not yet :)
22:54:24  <hythlodaeus> oh i thought you were talking IRL
22:54:30  <hythlodaeus> as in what to plan
22:54:54  <Samu> random bits could be used to determine random speed penalties :p
22:55:07  <Samu> very minor though
22:55:38  <Samu> then call it, "it was the wind effect"
22:56:49  <nielsm> if you wanted wind to have an effect then something with tile hash and current date would be more likely to do sensible-feeling things I think
22:57:48  <nielsm> or something else that makes areas nearby have similar wind conditions
22:58:30  <milek7_> ata1: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x4000000 action 0xe frozen ata2: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x4000000 action 0xe frozen
22:58:39  <milek7_> dwa dyski naraz chyba się nie zepsuły
22:58:50  <milek7_> oops, wrong window
22:58:53  <Samu> milek7_, yes!
22:58:56  <Samu> yes to that
22:59:55  <Samu> gonna take a look at pathfinder, it's something I can at least adjust
23:00:04  <Samu> since im more familiar
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23:13:24  <Samu> 		if (IsTileType(n.GetTile(), MP_WATER)) {
23:13:24  <Samu> 			c += YAPF_TILE_LENGTH * (WATER_DEPTH_MAX - GetWaterDepth(n.GetTile()));
23:13:24  <Samu> 		}
23:13:31  <Samu> hue
23:13:38  <Samu> gotta go sleep take care
23:17:03  <nielsm> huh yapf can't pathfind between these docks?
23:17:52  <glx> it should
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23:20:00  <glx> I don't think we have a "show reservation" thing for water
23:20:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips
23:20:53  <glx> maybe the path is too long to be found without buoys
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23:21:05  <glx> but yapf should handle that
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23:23:11  <FLHerne> nielsm: Was there previously a connection between those long narrow channels?
23:23:19  <FLHerne> If so, caching bug?
23:23:25  <nielsm> no
23:25:33  <glx> to go in this location, it seems it used the direction to dock fallback
23:26:16  <glx> do you get ship is lost notices ?
23:26:24  <nielsm> this also fails:
23:26:33  <nielsm> the ship just circles around in the corner
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23:27:28  <nielsm> and no, no lost warnings
23:27:43  <glx> so PF bugs
23:28:11  <glx> and in yapf it's a pain
23:28:19  <nielsm> oh now it did get lost yes
23:28:45  <glx> anyway there's a path it should find it, still a PF bug
23:28:45  <nielsm> maybe it was because I had "advice on players vehicles
23:28:51  <nielsm> turned off
23:29:01  <nielsm> when it first got lost, and then it didn't re-post the message
23:29:43  <glx> OPF had a length limit for pathfinding but I think there's no limit for newer PF
23:29:52  <nielsm> but yes it does prefer paths away from the coast with this change
23:30:19  <TrueBrain> glx: I looked why the order of 'ids' can be different. The "ID" it creates are set to "deterministic" ... funny word, as it turns out :P Seems that the global npm package influences it somehow
23:30:25  <TrueBrain> bit silly tbh
23:31:10  <glx> I'm currently cleaning stuff, I noticed removing the pr branch wasn't removing all files
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23:31:50  <TrueBrain> 'npm run clean' removes everything relevant
23:32:08  <glx> but for some reason it didn't want to run
23:32:17  <TrueBrain> "deterministic - Module names are hashed into small numeric values."
23:32:26  <TrueBrain> glx: it is expecting to run on a linux command line btw :D
23:32:55  <TrueBrain>     "clean": "lerna exec rm -- -rf node_modules package-lock.json dist lib",
23:33:11  <TrueBrain> the only command that does that :P
23:33:48  <glx> well rm "partially works" in powershell ;)
23:33:56  <glx> it's an alias
23:34:21  <TrueBrain> yeah, the -rf only is not compatible
23:34:32  <TrueBrain> so remove all the "node_modules" folders, and you will be fine :)
23:34:50  <glx> but exec rm doesn't because it's not an executable
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23:37:52  <glx> no changes, still the big diffs
23:40:20  <TrueBrain> *shrug*
23:40:24  <TrueBrain> doesn't matter, really
23:40:38  <TrueBrain> I am more interested in a review atm :)
23:40:43  <glx> yes it's just annoying :)
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23:42:20  <TrueBrain> there are more things that are annoying :) I am just more happy if this works, and I can shut down k8s :P
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23:50:32  <nielsm> hmm, building canal over river, the river depth should be preserved, right? should there be a max depth to canals? what should happen if the player tries to build canal over a river deeper than the max canal depth?
23:52:31  <nielsm> (error? just lower depth? additional cost?)
23:52:58  <hythlodaeus> if depth means there there has to be a transitioning area, then it might not be a problem at all
23:53:15  <hythlodaeus> because a deeper river would also mean it would be wider
23:54:30  <hythlodaeus> so it's very much like raising or lowering terrain: no tile can be raised/lowered without afecting thhe depth of the surrounding ones
23:55:03  <hythlodaeus> so a 1-tile wide course of water would always have the same depth

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