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00:03:52 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:15:22 *** crazystacy has quit IRC 00:27:00 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 01:11:12 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:13:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 01:30:51 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JvJaK 01:39:20 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 02:24:30 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 02:31:33 *** hythlodaeus has quit IRC 03:05:07 *** crazystacy has joined #openttd 03:12:31 *** glx has quit IRC 03:13:42 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:17:02 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:17:27 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7935: Add: Option for a new transfer feeder payment algorithm https://git.io/JvJrX 03:22:26 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7935: Add: Option for a new transfer feeder payment algorithm https://git.io/JvJr7 04:05:37 *** rtrdd has joined #openttd 04:10:11 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 04:10:18 *** zvxb has quit IRC 04:20:18 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 04:22:46 *** crazystacy has quit IRC 04:52:05 *** Pikka has quit IRC 04:57:40 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 05:47:58 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 05:50:33 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 06:46:19 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 07:31:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:32:04 <andythenorth> is it though? 07:34:06 <Pikka> only sometimes 07:34:42 <andythenorth> do you timetable often? 07:36:05 <Pikka> only during the eclipse of the sun 07:36:16 <Pikka> I don't think I've ever used timetables in OTTD 07:39:02 <andythenorth> lot of chat about it in forums & reddit 07:39:13 <andythenorth> I use 'wait at station' sometimes 07:39:25 <andythenorth> the rest...I've concluded my brain isn't that shape 07:39:46 <andythenorth> people have discussions about it where I understand the words, but not the discussion :) 07:59:33 <andythenorth> Pikka: is it pixels, or AIs? :) 07:59:49 <Pikka> trying to pixels, but AI is too easy to fiddle with 08:00:18 <andythenorth> hurrah 08:00:37 <Pikka> recoded av9.8, should try drawing one of those :) 08:00:57 <andythenorth> it's a classic 08:01:22 <andythenorth> what will be new? 99x zoom? :) 08:01:58 <Pikka> yes, UKRS3 style hand-drawn 08:02:09 <Pikka> plus slightly rebalanced, rejigged for 20th C gameplay 08:02:16 <Pikka> another early plane, no A380 08:02:52 <andythenorth> super! 08:03:11 <andythenorth> 9.8 does everything I need, but new is also good 08:05:26 <Pikka> it's not changed much, just changed a few intro dates to fit. and changed a few names to confuse people. :) 08:05:46 <andythenorth> so intro-date scaling parameter? o_O 08:06:06 <andythenorth> based on 1860 start :P 08:06:24 <Pikka> 1860 planes? 08:06:39 <Pikka> or 1860 trains? how does the scaling work? 08:07:11 <andythenorth> if the parameter is 2x, and 1860 is the baseline, then a '1960' train appears in 2060 08:07:21 <andythenorth> it's silly, but I might do it in Horse 08:07:51 <Pikka> it is a bit silly, but why not? 08:08:18 <andythenorth> snail pointed out that town buildings will be wrong 08:08:38 <andythenorth> currently I have been playing 1968 for....some time 08:08:40 <andythenorth> date cheat :P 08:21:36 <Pikka> surely everything but the trains will be wrong? :) 08:23:27 <andythenorth> well I could do all my grfs :P 08:23:40 <andythenorth> but clicking the date cheat eh 08:26:36 <andythenorth> BBLer 08:26:38 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:36:39 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:36:53 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 08:53:08 *** Smedles has quit IRC 09:26:27 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 09:34:10 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:43:53 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:55:05 *** hythlodaeus has joined #openttd 10:08:17 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvJMD 10:17:43 <peter1138> Is it lunch time yet? 10:23:22 <LordAro> can't be, i've not got to work yet 10:47:58 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvJDD 10:50:22 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvJDb 11:14:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:24:42 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 11:25:06 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvJyy 11:37:50 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvJSv 11:40:36 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvJSJ 11:40:43 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvJSU 11:43:01 <Pikka> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=210088 11:43:11 <Pikka> not sure why I don't always play with "silly" townnames :) 11:50:01 <planetmaker> hehe :) What's the ground tiles, though? 11:58:58 <Pikka> my landscape tiles... no public release yet, aiming for mid-year. :) 12:14:57 <planetmaker> nice :) 12:16:05 *** tokai has joined #openttd 12:16:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 12:22:59 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 12:23:36 <hythlodaeus> guys what's your opinion on OpenLoco? 12:24:56 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 12:24:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 12:31:49 *** tokai has quit IRC 12:36:06 <Pikka> not much, hythlodaeus? Locomotion is a bit limited compared to TTD and I guess the same goes for the Open version. 12:36:51 <Pikka> I don't know if anyone's actively working on it 12:42:46 <LordAro> Pikka: offshoot from openrct2, aiui 12:43:11 <LordAro> which by all accounts has been very successful 12:43:39 <Pikka> Yes, I know it exists. Just don't know if anyone's doing anything with it. Doesn't seem to have had any changes in months. 13:00:22 <peter1138> Might have breakfast now. 13:10:49 *** tokai has joined #openttd 13:10:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 13:12:03 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:13:04 <Samu> hi 13:17:43 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 14:13:04 <Pikka> hi 14:20:57 <nielsm> hmm... trying to think of how to newgrf water depths 14:21:58 <nielsm> will probably need a new canals sub-feature for base water sprites, and then add a property to specify which depth ranges there are sprites for 14:22:06 <nielsm> perhaps? 14:22:39 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:22:52 <nielsm> it's probably not a good idea to use callbacks for it, for performance 14:23:27 <nielsm> the real fun will be in supporting depth transition tiles 14:24:04 <nielsm> unless we want to use some kind of dither stuff where two ground tiles are overlaid, with one masked off 14:28:09 <nielsm> or... an action 5 thing? 14:32:31 <hythlodaeus> have you had a look at other games for ref? 14:34:26 <nielsm> how will other games help me choose a technical implementation of supplying graphics within the existing framework? 14:39:45 <hythlodaeus> you never know. sometimes even by observing the way other games behave in action, even if you don't have the source code, you can get ideas and inspiration to come up with solutions for your own problems 14:40:27 <nielsm> here the most relevant thing to do is look at how ottd is already solving the same problem for other cases where additional sprites need to be supplied for something that originally had only one sprite 14:41:41 <hythlodaeus> sure, that's fair 14:42:55 <Samu> i finally got the courage to start working on "build on competitor canal" 14:43:13 <Samu> something I have done before 14:43:20 <Samu> but now rebasing to current standards 14:43:24 <Samu> conflicts everywhere 14:43:58 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 14:44:13 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] xdavidwu opened pull request #7936: Fix: [SDL2] sdl driver debug log https://git.io/JvJ7n 14:46:10 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7936: Fix: [SDL2] sdl driver debug log https://git.io/JvJ7R 15:03:03 *** Samu has quit IRC 15:12:59 *** crazystacy has joined #openttd 15:26:31 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 15:33:53 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] RoqueDeicide commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvJ5x 15:35:06 *** crazystacy has quit IRC 15:42:55 *** hythlodaeus has quit IRC 15:44:38 *** Samu has joined #openttd 15:55:02 <nielsm> w00p it works! https://0x0.st/z7CL.jpg 15:56:13 <peter1138> MERGE 15:58:34 <Samu> different color water? 15:58:47 <nielsm> different water sprites depending on depth 15:58:59 <supermop_work> HELL YEAH 15:59:06 <supermop_work> looks dope 16:00:25 <supermop_work> new feature request: some tiny boat that sinks in deep water a la civilization 16:02:35 <peter1138> New way to grief ships? :D 16:02:39 <peter1138> Cos we need more :D 16:02:48 <peter1138> Triremes, my poor triremes... 16:03:25 <supermop_work> even better i it just reuses the vanilla crash animation, explodes, spins around, then sits there burnt out on top of the water for 4 months 16:04:24 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/z7Cl.jpg even with this prototype hacked-together graphics it looks so nice :D 16:05:10 <peter1138> supermop_work, haha 16:05:11 <_dp_> idk, looks weird 16:05:17 <peter1138> nielsm, looks fine to me. 16:05:19 <_dp_> would be better to make deep water darker imo 16:05:34 <peter1138> So does it allow underwater tunnels or is that... something else? 16:05:36 <_dp_> also having more waves on deep water makes no sense 16:05:37 <nielsm> well yes but I'm not the artist here :P 16:05:41 <peter1138> _dp_, "hacked-together graphics" 16:05:58 <peter1138> Waves are a feature of the surface... 16:06:33 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfWw 16:07:37 <peter1138> Hmm, so water depth is actually separate from tile height. Interesting. 16:07:58 <nielsm> but yes I agree that deep water should generally have less waves 16:08:15 <peter1138> Yes. I must admit I missed the "more" part :p 16:08:36 <LordAro> colour should definitely be distinct, imo 16:08:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:09:02 <peter1138> Graphics artists can do that ;p 16:09:03 <nielsm> yea 16:09:31 <nielsm> the problem is somewhat that there are only two water animation cycles 16:09:49 <nielsm> so you'd have to make the not-default-blue colours non-animated 16:10:47 <LordAro> definitely a problem for graphics artists 16:10:55 <LordAro> where's an andy when you need one? 16:19:19 <planetmaker> nielsm, wouldn't it indeed be possible as initially suggested by andrew to make some kind of semi-opaque overlay? 16:19:26 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:19:37 <planetmaker> we use 32bpp blitters anyway on all systems except those from the stone age with 8bpp graphics cards 16:19:50 <planetmaker> so such overlay should even work with 8bpp sprite sets 16:19:55 <nielsm> hm yeah maybe it would be possible to do some fancy tricks on 32bpp 16:20:57 <planetmaker> somewhat similar maybe even to the glass effect... like recolour sprites might be another idea... dunno... I've never ventured in those too much 16:23:11 <Samu> so much messy code in lock 16:23:17 <Samu> DoBuildLock 16:23:37 <Samu> im surprised test and exec mode don't assert 16:24:26 <Samu> it adds the cost of building a canal 16:24:36 <Samu> in test mode and exec mode 16:24:38 *** nielsm is now known as Guest13755 16:25:43 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 16:25:46 <Samu> in test mode IsWaterTile is false, in exec mode, IsWaterTile is true 16:25:49 <Samu> at this line here https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/water_cmd.cpp#L319 16:26:14 <Samu> so in the end, it does not have a canal, but i still payed the price of it 16:26:39 <Samu> test and exec still match, because the prices are the same for some magical reason 16:27:56 *** Guest13755 has quit IRC 16:44:53 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 16:45:52 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JvJbI 16:48:54 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JvJbm 16:57:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:02:16 <Samu> tile type object 17:02:32 <Samu> and water 17:02:40 <Samu> a deadly combination 17:04:12 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:05:47 <planetmaker> for the water? 17:10:12 <Samu> for having this work correctly 17:10:27 <Samu> yes 17:10:40 <Samu> clearing an object on water, which results in water 17:11:01 <Samu> without modifying the waterclass 17:17:32 <Samu> while building a lock 17:19:42 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:19:47 <andythenorth> Pikka: so 17:19:55 <Pikka> yes? 17:19:56 <andythenorth> vehicle instance names in newgrf? o_O 17:20:07 <andythenorth> the AI does a nice job, but I am not an AI 17:22:20 <Pikka> you need a helper AI to rename your vehicles? 17:24:40 <andythenorth> would I have to run that multiplayer? o_O 17:24:52 <andythenorth> can I add an AI to my company? :P 17:27:21 <Pikka> you can start an AI then use the cheat menu to switch into the AI company 17:27:29 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JvJNV 17:40:37 *** Pikka has quit IRC 17:56:20 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:56:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:59:34 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 18:03:03 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:03:26 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:07:00 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:08:30 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:13:07 <Samu> extremelly difficult with objects 18:15:15 <Samu> well apparently the game is making it easier for me. Objects placed on water by a company that bankrupts, gets its objects removed from the map 18:15:20 <Samu> they don't stay 18:18:05 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:35:13 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 18:37:47 *** zvxb has joined #openttd 18:42:07 *** rtrdd has quit IRC 18:45:49 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JvJpC 18:45:49 <DorpsGek_III_> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:46:36 *** zvxb has quit IRC 18:49:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:49:34 <andythenorth> yo 18:54:57 <andythenorth> @seen floodius 18:54:57 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: I have not seen floodius. 18:57:03 <nielsm> @seen floodious 18:57:03 <DorpsGek> nielsm: floodious was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 22 hours, 1 minute, and 35 seconds ago: * floodious goes out 18:57:26 <frosch123> nice last message :) 19:01:48 <andythenorth> there are only so many types of programmer 19:02:01 <andythenorth> and there is a particular type who gives a long explanation of correctness 19:02:13 <andythenorth> combined with "I haven't looked at the code" 19:02:24 <andythenorth> tell me you haven't worked with these people ever? o_O 19:05:56 <frosch123> nielsm: i found what i did wrong the other day. i forgot that nuts includes railtypes and did not notice that the "weird vehicle item ids" were railtype labels 19:06:26 <nielsm> ah yeah 19:07:04 <frosch123> @base 10 16 1431193905 19:07:04 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 554E4931 19:10:15 <andythenorth> nielsm: so if there's a lake up in a mountain range, and I lower terrain...what happens? 19:10:28 <andythenorth> [this question is really about reservoir / dam objects] :P 19:11:07 <nielsm> the water has depth but it does not have volume :P 19:11:44 <andythenorth> so the water just disappears? 19:12:08 <nielsm> well if you clear the water tiles then they disappear yes 19:12:30 <nielsm> making stuff flow would be troublesome 19:12:38 <frosch123> https://pastebin.com/xhVGWiwE <- nielsm: do you have a cool idea for that? 19:12:41 <andythenorth> nah not required at all, it's not minecraft :) 19:12:49 * andythenorth wondering if we can have object / industry tiles that lie about the local tile height 19:13:13 <nielsm> frosch123: not sure what you mean 19:13:15 <frosch123> i want to parse all files with a specific prefix, but the time always advances 19:13:22 <nielsm> ah... 19:13:40 <andythenorth> the hydro plant idea can wait :P 19:13:45 <andythenorth> also watermill 19:13:57 <nielsm> I guess maybe the timestamp should be collection start time, not file write time 19:17:54 <supermop_work> WATERMILL TYCOON 19:18:13 <nielsm> transport dwarf deluxe 19:18:28 <nielsm> openttdwarf 19:18:36 <supermop_work> reuse crash animation for flour mill explosion 19:19:20 <supermop_work> watermill explodes, pallet shifts to black, spins around 19:20:21 <TrueBrain> milek7_: do you have your patch for AFL? I found some old patches which we used to run AI tournaments, and I wonder if there are snippets in there that might benefit AFL (as tournament is optimized for speed) .. so any code you have makes it a bit faster to check :) 19:20:26 <frosch123> openttdwarf is when the palette animation makes the whole screen blink red, right? 19:20:43 * andythenorth moves the date from 1969 to 1968 for 3rd time in a row 19:20:50 <andythenorth> 'daylength, without the hassle' 19:21:33 <andythenorth> frosch123: I linked the Doom Black Book recently, the palette tricks are really smart 19:22:07 <frosch123> i never played doom :) 19:22:26 <andythenorth> I never played Dwarf Fortress :D 19:22:30 <andythenorth> http://fabiensanglard.net/gebbdoom/ 19:23:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: there is a type of game which i would like to play in theory, but quit after 5 minutes because the interface makes me throw up. simutrans and dwarf fortress are among them 19:23:25 <andythenorth> fair 19:23:44 <frosch123> first time i tried df i came until i had to select a location for settlement 19:23:48 <andythenorth> anyway chapter 5.13 http://fabiensanglard.net/gebbdoom_v1.1.pdf 19:23:54 <frosch123> i applied some filters, and then the whole screen was blinking red 19:24:19 <frosch123> i still do not know whether red blinking X means the filter criterion is met or not met 19:24:37 <andythenorth> oh also 5.12.8 Diminishing Lighting 19:24:58 * andythenorth looks at the 12 magic pinks in the DOS palette 19:25:03 <andythenorth> feels like they're...wasted 19:25:20 <andythenorth> so 3rd company colour? o_O 19:25:42 <andythenorth> or I could use them for my own recolouring crap that I do, I've run out of safe ranges for it 19:26:39 <andythenorth> I use purple and red https://github.com/andythenorth/polar-fox/blob/master/src/intermodal_container_graphics/tank_40_foot.png?raw=true 19:29:23 <frosch123> 2 orthogonal recolourings are already pushing it 19:29:28 <frosch123> if you want more, use sprite layers 19:29:35 <Samu> is there a way to know whether clearing a tile will result in a clear water tile? 19:29:53 <frosch123> 1cc needs 16 palettes, 2cc needs 256, 3cc would need 4096 19:30:02 <Samu> like rocks on water, i clear the rocks, i get clear water 19:30:20 <Samu> tile type is object 19:30:23 <frosch123> recolouring palettes must be in the global sprite range < 16k 19:31:06 <andythenorth> I'm recolouring in PIL 19:31:30 <andythenorth> with a silly side effect due to my poor programming 19:31:35 <frosch123> so you include 4096 sprites for a single train sprite? 19:31:45 <andythenorth> errr...possibly yes 19:32:01 * andythenorth counts 19:33:11 <andythenorth> @calc (35 * 2 * 8) + 8 19:33:11 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 568 19:33:30 <andythenorth> hmm 19:33:31 <andythenorth> nvm 19:33:37 <andythenorth> might be talking at cross purposes :) 19:35:20 <nielsm> is it time to have just-in-time pre-combined sprites? 19:36:31 <andythenorth> it doesn't solve any problem I have afaik 19:36:49 <nielsm> (a single spriteid makes a callback/series of callbacks that returns a list of sprites and relative positions and results in them being pre-combined into a single sprite cache image which can then be re-used) 19:37:20 <andythenorth> I generate large numbers of sprites because checking vehicle cargos or recolourings in a spritesheet is ~infinitely faster than checking them in game 19:37:32 <nielsm> hmm well yeah it would probably have to be sprite+parameters 19:37:59 <andythenorth> the overhead of setting up new games covering every possible supported cargo, and then creating the industry chains 19:38:00 <andythenorth> nah 19:38:37 <frosch123> nielsm: check VehicleSpriteSeq 19:38:43 <andythenorth> I could step through with the sprite inspector I guess, but it's still slow 19:38:52 <frosch123> it's already a sequence, feel free to make ottd combine the sprites 19:39:32 <frosch123> haha, oh yes, jit-sprites would break the sprite inspector :p 19:39:54 <milek7_> TrueBrain: i have no special patch except __AFL_INIT() before LoadIntroGame, _exit after it, don't retry at SL_REINIT, disable crash logging 19:40:07 <andythenorth> not sure what problems it would solve :) 19:40:12 <TrueBrain> can you share? :) 19:40:13 <milek7_> with lightweight savegame it does 20runs/s per core 19:40:17 <TrueBrain> I love the "no special except ..." list :D 19:40:51 <TrueBrain> 20 runs/s is not bad; 5 times faster than the 4 :D 19:41:11 <andythenorth> so is there anything can be done to debug this? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9599/vehicle-window-windowshade-fps-2.m4v 19:41:52 <andythenorth> not shown in that video, but stopping all trains also restores the fps to 34 19:42:16 <andythenorth> and in my testing, vanilla does the same thing, so it's not my newgrf 19:42:53 <nielsm> the thing where fps drops to half when you shade a window? 19:43:13 <andythenorth> unshade 19:43:15 <andythenorth> but yes 19:43:29 <andythenorth> it's not the profit display text rendering either, I deleted that 19:43:42 <frosch123> the vehicle list probably redraws every tick 19:43:43 <nielsm> I really heavily suspect it has to do with the video driver timing/rendering somehow causing the OS to give the process less time 19:43:49 <andythenorth> and it's not 2x UI or 2x text zoom, although they affect how easily it gets triggered 19:43:50 <frosch123> to show loading progress and stuff 19:44:06 <andythenorth> nielsm: do we change video driver timing when all trains are stopped? 19:44:12 <nielsm> frosch123: the drawing times don't really increase appreciably 19:44:33 <nielsm> andythenorth no, I think it has to do with crossing over some magic threshold for average frame time 19:44:58 <andythenorth> oh yes, I recall your theory :) 19:44:59 <nielsm> something similar to how vsync can cause significant framerate drops 19:45:12 <andythenorth> peter thought it might be train pathfinding 19:45:21 <nielsm> if you submit a frame just after sync then you get to wait a full cycle for your next frame 19:45:53 <nielsm> and that won't show up as time spent working on anything, it's just idle time 19:46:29 <nielsm> frame times are fine, but frame cadence is terrible 19:47:09 <andythenorth> it's pretty easy to repro with vanilla trains on 1.10-beta2 19:47:22 <andythenorth> it doesn't require a big game 19:47:33 <milek7_> TrueBrain: really, nothing special in it :) 19:47:36 <milek7_> https://pastebin.com/raw/1VNNwcVL 19:47:44 <nielsm> have you tried/managed to make a build with SDL or SDL2 instead of the regular mac driver? 19:47:46 <milek7_> CC=afl-clang-fast CXX=afl-clang-fast++ ./configure 19:47:56 <milek7_> https://milek7.pl/.stuff/smallishsave.dat 19:48:02 <andythenorth> can't remember if I tried 19:48:40 <milek7_> (TBH it could be worth to test also on old TTD DOS save format) 19:48:52 <andythenorth> I didn't comment on the SDL2 PR to say I'd tested it 19:48:59 <TrueBrain> cheers milek7_; saves me a bit of time hunting where to hit return :) 19:49:45 * andythenorth looks how to configure SDL build 19:50:00 <frosch123> nielsm: andythenorth: when i shade/unshade the vehicle list while the game is paused i get a single peak for drawing of the window 19:50:08 <frosch123> i do not see any peak in andys video 19:50:45 <andythenorth> oh the video is a bit wrong 19:50:50 <andythenorth> I forgot to windowshade the fps window 19:51:10 <andythenorth> can't trust the fps window if it's not shaded, as it hammers the fps down 19:51:13 <frosch123> also pause the game, if it is not 19:51:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: for me the tooltip has a huge effect 19:51:59 <andythenorth> pausing the game eliminates the fps drop 19:52:14 <frosch123> set the tooltip delay to 1 second or something to make it show 19:52:19 <nielsm> frosch123 still the important part imo is that the graphics rendering is not taking 50+ ms when fra framerate is bad, everything is still well within the 30 ms budget 19:52:56 <andythenorth> I am curious about why stopping all trains solves the issue 19:53:10 <andythenorth> should I run that macOS Instruments profiler? 19:53:28 <andythenorth> might as well 19:53:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: that would confirm nielsm again. there are thresholds, like for climate 19:55:10 <frosch123> ottd also sleeps differents amount of time depending how long the gameloop/drawing takes 19:55:34 <frosch123> maybe your task sheduler only reassigns the cpu every now and then 19:55:46 <frosch123> so sometimes ottd sleeps longer than requested 19:56:52 <frosch123> nielsm: anyway, when the game is paused the tooltip window doubles the drawing time for me :) 19:57:16 <milek7_> it sounds like battery saving shenanigans, but we already tested that? 19:57:36 <frosch123> also what is the logic of the graphs switching the time range all the time? 19:59:12 <nielsm> andythenorth: src/video/cocoa/event.mm line 711 should be CSleep(1); - try adding this just after the "else" line preceding that: PerformanceMeasurer perf(PFE_AI14); 19:59:38 <nielsm> just to measure that block containing the CSleep(1) using a thing that should be free 20:00:08 <frosch123> why does the chart switch between 2.5 seconds and 5.5 seconds every now and then? 20:00:32 <andythenorth> nielsm: I'll try that in a minute 20:00:34 <andythenorth> meanwhile https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9610/train-window-instruments-run.png 20:00:44 <andythenorth> also the fps on self-compiled openttd is crap anyway 20:00:53 <andythenorth> I'm having to use the official binaries to get a playable game 20:01:05 <andythenorth> ^^^ that chart is completely counterintuitive eh 20:01:33 <nielsm> it just shows that the game is using less cpu when drawing less frames per second 20:01:34 <frosch123> hmm, seems to be related to ottd skipping frames 20:02:31 <nielsm> andythenorth: maybe also try adding a PerformanceMeasurer with PFE_AI13 or something just after the for(;;) on line 671 20:02:35 <nielsm> to get the entire driver loop 20:02:47 <andythenorth> ok I'll have to cook dinner and then try :) 20:02:52 <andythenorth> interesting problem though 20:02:52 <nielsm> :D 20:03:19 <TrueBrain> milek7_: ah, you are only loading the savegame :) I was also wondering what happens if it runs a few ticks :) 20:03:27 <nielsm> measuring the QZ_PollEvent() loop on 674 might also be interesting 20:04:54 <andythenorth> I have all the stats from the run 20:06:37 <andythenorth> I don't know what's normal, but -[OTTD_QuartzView drawRect:] is pretty busy 20:07:10 <milek7_> TrueBrain: yes, but it is ok for now, it gathers enough crashes ;p 20:07:20 <TrueBrain> fair enough :) 20:08:07 <milek7_> 75kB is still huge testcase for AFL, but I don't know if it can be lowered further 20:08:41 <andythenorth> for 3s run time with train window open, OTTD_QuartzView drawRect is 90ms 20:09:07 <TrueBrain> hmm .. with the way savegames are created, it won't be very efficient in trying special cases in any case 20:09:24 <nielsm> andythenorth: that's about 1 ms per frame, that's perfectly acceptable 20:09:26 <andythenorth> for 3s run time with train window shaded OTTD_QuartzView drawRect is 20ms 20:09:33 <nielsm> 3 seconds should have about 100 frames rendered 20:09:34 <andythenorth> this is only a single sample though 20:09:50 <nielsm> or well, 2 ms per frame if running at half speed 20:09:50 <andythenorth> might be irrelevant noise 20:10:04 <TrueBrain> milek7_: for now for me it doesn't even want to pick up any new path :P 20:10:38 <milek7_> timeout too low/hits memory limit? 20:10:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: nielsm: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/framerate.mp4 <- that is a unoptimised debug build with a big #coop game. the vehicle list also has significant effect there, if nothing else is on the screen 20:11:33 <frosch123> it eats 3 fps 20:11:59 <nielsm> looks like it gets invalidated every tick 20:12:33 <frosch123> likely, it for sure does not track when vehicles get new sprites :) 20:12:38 <nielsm> but in your video the rendering time also jumps massively when it opens, it doesn't do that in andy's 20:12:56 <TrueBrain> milek7_: nah, I was being silly with an old patch of mine 20:13:15 <TrueBrain> what I miss in your patch .. afl uses stdin with its fuzzed attempt .. how does it end up in the intro-game for you? 20:13:24 <peter1138> Did I break vehicle lists? :p 20:13:37 <peter1138> If so it's been a while o_O 20:13:48 <milek7_> afl-fuzz -f takes output path 20:13:56 <TrueBrain> ah, lol 20:14:39 <Samu> need to simplify this code https://pastebin.com/Q3UEyK2H 20:14:51 <andythenorth> peter1138: no progress without breakage :) 20:15:09 <TrueBrain> meh, where savegames used to be loaded no longer does .. *sad panda* 20:15:18 <TrueBrain> okay, this patch is 10+ years old :P 20:15:18 <peter1138> If it's 'invalidated' every tick, might be a dodgy gui timer... 20:16:42 <milek7_> set -v/-m/-s/-b to null too 20:18:48 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7935: Add: Option for a new transfer feeder payment algorithm https://git.io/JvUeF 20:19:16 <frosch123> looks like the window is invalidated whenever a vehicle loads 20:19:26 <frosch123> so for a savegame this size, it is every game tick 20:20:14 <TrueBrain> okay, this needs a bit more fiddling than I was hoping for .. but that might be a nice thing to do, while I wait for freaking cloudfront to destroy itself 20:21:41 <andythenorth> BUT THE CLOUD 20:21:43 <andythenorth> or something 20:21:59 <andythenorth> so TrueBrain I shouldn't move to Docker + Kubernetes at work? o_O 20:22:15 <TrueBrain> Docker, yes 20:22:16 <TrueBrain> Kubernetes, no 20:22:22 <TrueBrain> well, unless you have 10 devops there 20:22:26 <TrueBrain> in that case, go for it 20:22:28 <TrueBrain> send them on training 20:22:30 <TrueBrain> for 2 months 20:22:30 <TrueBrain> plz 20:22:58 <TrueBrain> this cloudfront is "in progress" for over an hour now 20:23:00 <TrueBrain> getting a bit old 20:23:02 <andythenorth> I've been told I can never attact any devops until we're using cool modern tech like k8s 20:23:07 <andythenorth> attract * 20:23:25 <andythenorth> but to use tech like k8s I need devops to look after it, as it is a shitload more work than we do now 20:23:59 <andythenorth> so I need to do a load of work I can't do because I don't have the devs to adopt the cool tech so we can attract devs so we can use more cool tech so we can attract devs 20:24:20 <TrueBrain> something something chicken egg 20:24:23 <andythenorth> otoh, this was recruitment consultant advice 20:24:49 <TrueBrain> too bad you are located in the wrong country; otherwise I would have helped out :P 20:24:54 <frosch123> maybe make software for banks and insurances instead 20:25:00 <andythenorth> I CAN'T AFFORD A TRUEBRAIN 20:25:03 <andythenorth> m 20:25:14 <TrueBrain> okay, I will halve my fee for you 20:25:17 <TrueBrain> if you think that is my fee :P 20:26:02 <andythenorth> zimbabwe dollars? 20:26:03 <andythenorth> o_O 20:27:01 <frosch123> lowercase m is milli already 20:28:19 <glx> just opening the console in main menu slows everything for me 20:28:46 <TrueBrain> pro-tip: don't do that 20:35:26 <andythenorth> oh there's an AI ranking thing in forums 20:35:28 <andythenorth> how rare :) 20:35:30 <TrueBrain> okay, this cloudfront distribution starts to annoy me ... 20:37:40 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 20:37:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 20:44:38 *** tokai has quit IRC 20:47:41 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:53:24 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:54:09 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:02:19 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 21:02:26 <TrueBrain> okay, I really don't like how long this cloudfront takes ... especially as I cannot continue with the rest till it "unbreaks" 21:02:27 <TrueBrain> meh 21:02:38 <TrueBrain> anyway ... if that works, adding docs should be simple :P 21:10:01 <TrueBrain> milek7_: 21:10:02 <TrueBrain> - if (SaveOrLoad("opntitle.dat", SLO_LOAD, DFT_GAME_FILE, BASESET_DIR) != SL_OK) { 21:10:02 <TrueBrain> + if (SaveOrLoad("/dev/stdin", SLO_LOAD, DFT_GAME_FILE, BASESET_DIR) != SL_OK) { 21:10:12 <TrueBrain> allows -M / -S :) 21:10:34 <frosch123> haha, the ai ranking site includes all those "idle" ais... funnily they perform differently, and some (non-crashing) ais perform worse 21:10:52 <TrueBrain> frosch123: url? 21:10:58 <frosch123> https://openttd.mousetail.nl/ 21:11:23 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=86439 <- background 21:11:54 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:11:58 <TrueBrain> realtime, funny 21:12:34 <frosch123> also ai forks perform worse than their originals. ludiai afterfix is worse than ludiai, nonocab is worse than nocab 21:16:18 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:16:36 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 21:16:37 <andythenorth> so do I still need to compile the mac port with timing info? 21:16:52 <andythenorth> or do we have a cause? 21:18:12 <milek7_> TrueBrain: right, i didn't thought of that 21:18:20 <milek7_> how much runs/s you get? 21:18:41 <TrueBrain> 16 runs/s per instance 21:19:08 <TrueBrain> can run like ... 12 or so if I would like to 21:19:16 <TrueBrain> or we can rent an AWS instance for an hour :P 21:19:56 <milek7_> AWS is horribly expensive 21:20:15 <TrueBrain> not too bad if you only need it for an hour :D 21:20:46 <TrueBrain> with stdin the diskio is a lot lower btw, which is nice 21:22:21 <Samu> there is a bug with build dock, it doesn't include the price of clearing the grass of the sloped tile 21:22:30 <Samu> is that intended? 21:23:48 <Samu> or the road, or the trees, or whatever it is there 21:25:10 <Samu> fixing it is easy, but regression will fail, due to price differences 21:25:18 <Samu> should I do a PR? 21:30:04 *** tokai has joined #openttd 21:30:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 21:30:18 <TrueBrain> milek7_: btw, if I would guess, most crashes are caused because the map itself is never validated to be valid after loading .. it is simply assumed all bits are in order 21:30:24 <TrueBrain> so it is not really a surprise it crashes this often 21:30:40 <TrueBrain> should never lead to buffer-overflows etc, ofc 21:31:14 <TrueBrain> (look at map_sl.cpp to get what I mean btw :P) 21:33:36 <milek7_> isn't it a bit tautological? if data would be validated it wouldn't crash, obviously ;P 21:34:39 <TrueBrain> what you say, sure, but that was not what I was saying, was I ? :) 21:35:37 <andythenorth> so...water depth 21:35:48 <andythenorth> will I be designing a 4th ship set? :) 21:35:49 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 21:35:55 <frosch123> what is water depth used for? 21:36:29 <Samu> I'm using it to make ships move slow or faster depending on distance to shore (actually depth) 21:36:56 <frosch123> disallow landscaping deep sea? 21:36:58 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 21:37:07 <milek7_> though except from afterload migration, it is just loaded and isn't touched much 21:37:26 <TrueBrain> and it is afterload that causes most of the crashes for me 21:37:28 <milek7_> i guess most crashes from invalid map array will result when it actually starts running 21:37:31 <TrueBrain> (as it starts using the data) 21:37:31 <andythenorth> it could be used to ban ships with low freeboard from deep sea 21:37:41 <andythenorth> and ships with deep draught from shallow water 21:37:43 <Samu> oh, my AI performs worse, because mousetail is testing it with easy preset, which the original didn't care about 21:37:47 <TrueBrain> so indeed, if you run a few ticks, I guess a lot more crashes happen :) 21:37:47 <Samu> frosch123, 21:38:00 <andythenorth> not sure ship differentiation is fun or not yet 21:38:00 <TrueBrain> it is just totally unvalidated data 21:38:09 <TrueBrain> I wonder how difficult it is to validate the data tbh 21:38:20 <TrueBrain> more curious I am, if there are crashes in terms of buffer-overflow etc 21:38:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: we need the ability to build deep canals then 21:38:31 <TrueBrain> (as a result of a invalid map data) 21:38:41 <andythenorth> I believe that's a possibility Eddi|zuHause 21:38:47 <andythenorth> if I've understood correctly 21:38:58 <TrueBrain> milek7_: possibly even more interesting is to see what happens with loading of newgrfs 21:39:06 <milek7_> i have seen at least one buffer overflow 21:40:49 <frosch123> andythenorth: maybe 3-tile wide canals are deeper? 21:40:56 <andythenorth> maybe 21:41:08 <andythenorth> unrelated-related: could ships respect drive side? 21:41:15 <andythenorth> I often build 2 tile wide canals 21:41:37 <andythenorth> I don't want colliding ships for gameplay reasons, but it would be nice if they avoided overlapping in simple cases :P 21:42:50 <frosch123> i wonder whether you can control driving side by making path finder cost different for turning left < driving straight < turning right 21:43:38 <frosch123> that may cause the pathfinder to turn left as early as possible, and turn right as late as possible 21:43:58 <frosch123> so taking the inner side on a left curve, and the outer side on a right curve 21:45:29 <frosch123> hmm, i guess the shortest path is still to cut the corner 21:45:34 <andythenorth> OpenTTD Renaisance edition 21:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause> for ships, driving side is on the right, wordlwide 21:45:45 <andythenorth> OpenTTD Revival 21:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> so you turn right first, and left last 21:46:39 <frosch123> he, i expected ships to be brittish-dominated 21:47:52 <TrueBrain> milek7_: I added an _exit(0) in error(), to catch crashes that we did not pick up on via asserts and not_reached .. takes longer for it to find, but it also finds issues there 21:48:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't think pathfinder costs are the correct way to do this, you want to choose between equivalent paths 21:48:02 <TrueBrain> those are uncaptured issues :) 21:48:39 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, and i assume it will pick the first one found among the equivalent ones 21:48:59 <milek7_> https://pastebin.com/raw/m2hk2jSR https://milek7.pl/.stuff/id:000006,sig:11,src:000000,op:havoc,rep:4 21:49:08 <milek7_> here's one in linkgraph, for example 21:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think that needs messing in the pathfinder internals 21:50:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't know enough about that 21:50:27 <TrueBrain> milek7_: https://pastebin.com/EZx8iw58 <- found one in SlList :) 21:51:59 <TrueBrain> okay, there are some interesting crashes in there 21:52:06 <TrueBrain> which give room ... for fun :P 21:52:22 <TrueBrain> malloc_printerr (str=str@entry=0x7ffffef98800 "free(): invalid next size (fast)") at malloc.c:5350 21:53:06 <TrueBrain> uint64 aimed_inflation = (_economy.old_max_loan_unround << 16 | _economy.old_max_loan_unround_fract) / _settings_game.difficulty.max_loan; <- haha, that one is easy to reproduce :D 21:53:08 <TrueBrain> how nasty :) 21:56:30 <TrueBrain> ReadGRFSpriteOffsets (container_version=<error reading variable: access outside bounds of object referenced via synthetic pointer>) 21:56:34 <TrueBrain> also doesn't sound good :P 21:57:37 <andythenorth> ha ha 1969 in game again 21:57:39 <TrueBrain> milek7_: I just hit the same one as you did :) 21:57:44 <andythenorth> time to turn the clock back to 1968 21:58:05 <andythenorth> what if date cheat wasn't a cheat, and player could just click on year to change it :P 21:58:07 <andythenorth> re-framing 21:58:10 <andythenorth> daylength solved 21:58:12 <TrueBrain> milek7_: for some reason that one feels like you can write in random memory :P 21:58:59 <andythenorth> evil-train.grf? 21:59:25 <TrueBrain> these are all: evil-server.ip :P 22:00:00 <TrueBrain> "malloc(): memory corruption" 22:00:01 <TrueBrain> fun :D 22:00:32 <TrueBrain> okay, looking at the crashes that are not caught by our own code are fun ones :) 22:02:25 <milek7_> though release builds have asserts disabled, so they could still end up as memory safety issues when not caught early by assert 22:02:38 <TrueBrain> yup 22:02:50 <milek7_> oh, i didn't know openttd has security page 22:02:54 <milek7_> https://security.openttd.org/en/ 22:03:01 <TrueBrain> we even have CVEs :) 22:03:20 <TrueBrain> hmm, the savegame for "timeouts" are not stored by afl? Awh 22:03:30 <frosch123> we stopped having cves when noone fixed them anymore 22:03:41 <milek7_> 'hangs' directory 22:03:44 <TrueBrain> empty 22:05:57 <andythenorth> OpenTTD continues to deliver lolz 22:06:23 <andythenorth> I played since 2008, but I only just tried 'town growth: slow' and 'towns can build roads: no' 22:06:33 <andythenorth> wish I'd done that before, it's a much better game :P 22:07:27 <TrueBrain> okay, that is fun, fuzzing OpenTTD :P 22:07:38 <TrueBrain> solving it, is not trivial 22:07:40 <TrueBrain> which is a bit sad :P 22:11:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:14:01 <peter1138> Just make individual bug reports for everything reported... and then leave it to nobody else to deal with ;) 22:17:26 <andythenorth> oof I play OpenTTD like an idiot :) 22:18:02 <andythenorth> I always look at industry production when assigning vehicles 22:18:12 <andythenorth> instead of industry production * 0.69 or so 22:18:32 <peter1138> Oh yes, I was going to connect to my OpenTTD server and ... well, play. 22:18:33 <peter1138> Maybe. 22:18:44 <andythenorth> OpenTTD is not bad 22:18:50 <andythenorth> I mean it's not WoT Blitz 22:18:59 <andythenorth> positives and negatives :P 22:19:09 <frosch123> s/bad/evil/ 22:19:42 <andythenorth> I have played 2 long games, been playing every day since Dec 23rd or so 22:19:56 <andythenorth> not sure how long one of them is, I keep resetting date :P 22:20:56 <peter1138> Oh, there's already people on it. Hmm. 22:21:05 <peter1138> I wonder if the map is any good :p 22:21:44 <peter1138> Hmm, could be worse. 22:22:00 <andythenorth> 1.10 beta 2? 22:27:38 <peter1138> Yar 22:27:50 <peter1138> Lots of water, heh 22:28:25 <andythenorth> peter1138: what's it called? :P 22:33:52 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 22:35:36 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:38:43 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:40:37 *** Arveen2 has quit IRC 22:46:41 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 22:53:07 <TrueBrain> https://docs.dev.openttd.org/ THE START IS THERE 22:53:08 <TrueBrain> OMG 22:55:00 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:55:29 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause> best docs EU West 23:41:52 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7937: Build on competitor canal https://git.io/JvUIQ 23:42:33 <Samu> im running out of time... come on, build fast 23:45:12 <Samu> bah, whitespaces.. well tomorrow i'll fix them 23:45:53 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:47:02 <Samu> faster!!! plz 23:47:33 *** urdh has quit IRC 23:49:01 <Samu> k cyas 23:49:08 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:53:36 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 23:57:36 *** urdh has joined #openttd