Log for #openttd on 2nd March 2020:
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07:46:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8029: Black screen on SDL2-enabled OpenTTD, Sway and SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland
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08:35:59  <andythenorth> oh this is what I was supposed to be doing :P
08:36:10  <andythenorth> that explains the lurking sense of guilt all weekend :P
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13:09:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #92: Fix 62cab41: Random switch support for NRT
13:09:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker merged pull request #91: Fix #90, e9429c89: Generated procedure calls where not properly marked
13:09:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker closed issue #90: Length callback for vehicles doesn't accept switches
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15:37:32  <Samu> hi
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17:52:24  <Samu> yesterday you guys were discussing about a savegame bump
17:53:05  <Samu> was it #8021? <frosch123> TrueBrain: lordaro rejected a pr that would bump savegame, but maybe that was just an easy excuse
17:53:20  <Samu> i edited it so that it's no longer needed to savegame bump
17:54:27  <LordAro> no there was another PR
17:54:29  <LordAro> wasn't yours
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18:22:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] msikma commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
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20:12:45  <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is expected that GRFs in a Base Graphics don't have a grfid, except 1?
20:13:08  <glx> yes, base is a special case
20:13:28  <TrueBrain> k, tnx
20:14:11  <frosch123> the "except 1" is the "extra" one
20:14:23  <TrueBrain> yeah
20:14:52  <glx>
20:14:53  <frosch123> it also starts with 0xFF "OT"
20:15:19  <TrueBrain> NewGRF OpenGFX-0.3.2/ogfxe_extra.grf:
20:15:19  <TrueBrain> grfid: 22302719
20:15:58  <TrueBrain> @base 10 16 22302719
20:15:58  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 1544FFF
20:16:16  <TrueBrain> owh, and flipped, ofc .. because .. why not :P
20:16:25  <glx> 32bit LE
20:16:57  <TrueBrain> pretty sure it is read as LE, but .. chars we read are in BE
20:17:02  <TrueBrain> it is confusing as fuck :P
20:17:13  <frosch123> it's more confusing in ottd
20:17:27  <frosch123> ottd flips all grfids on load, so they look right when printed as be in debugger
20:17:28  <TrueBrain> 'ABCD' is a BE format, so to speak :P
20:17:43  <TrueBrain> (in C)
20:18:17  <LordAro> it's implementation defined, technically
20:18:38  <LordAro> but everyone does it the same way
20:18:58  <TrueBrain> grfid: b'\x01TO\xff'
20:19:04  <TrueBrain> k, at least that is a bit easier to read
20:19:12  <TrueBrain> (and that the order is flipped is correct :D)
20:20:27  <TrueBrain> as OGFX is 5846474f ..
20:20:31  <TrueBrain> THIS IS SO CONFUSING :P
20:20:58  <TrueBrain> btw, frosch123 , do not know if you noticed this about the BaNaNaS GitHub
20:21:07  <TrueBrain> but from the C-perspective, the unique-ids are flipped
20:21:12  <TrueBrain> I can, strictly seen, "fix" that
20:21:15  <TrueBrain> but that would make it wrong, ofc
20:21:44  <TrueBrain> (I basically made everything LE)
20:26:00  <frosch123> ottd does the same
20:26:14  <frosch123> probably bananas does it because ottd does
20:26:32  <TrueBrain> well, the wire wants an LE uint32
20:26:39  <TrueBrain> so from there I just kept everything LE
20:26:54  <TrueBrain> so when reading the entry from disk, I convert the BE to LE
20:27:07  <TrueBrain> it feels like OpenTTD does this wrong
20:27:10  <TrueBrain> and it should flip it
20:27:16  <TrueBrain> and we can just send the BE over the wire, but what-ever
20:27:22  <TrueBrain> it is just one confusing mess now :P
20:27:45  <frosch123> hmm, maybe ottd does it differently in different places
20:28:41  <TrueBrain> hmm .. looking more at it, I am still heavily confused :P
20:29:03  <frosch123> ottd does a BSWAP32 in every printf
20:29:29  <frosch123> so it reads it as uint32 from the file, and swaps it whenever displaying it to the user
20:29:37  <TrueBrain> if I receive an unique_id from the cliept, I have to byte-swap it, but when sending, I do not .. I am not sure anymore what is what :P
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20:30:44  <TrueBrain> pretty sure I am doing something wrong :P
20:31:05  <TrueBrain> owh, when sending I byte-swap it again too
20:31:19  <TrueBrain> so basically, if I byte-swap everything on disk "it looks pretty"
20:31:20  <TrueBrain> :P
20:32:15  <TrueBrain> we have known this for 10+ years, but using this char-trick is just a very bad idea :P
20:33:10  <TrueBrain> NewGRF OpenGFX-0.3.2/ogfxe_extra.grf:
20:33:10  <TrueBrain> grfid: b'\xffOT\x01'
20:33:11  <TrueBrain> fine by me
20:33:16  <LordAro> could probably pretty easily make a constexpr function to apply a BSWAP equivalent everywhere
20:33:22  <frosch123> ottd network code also swaps everything, because it sends in network order
20:33:39  <TrueBrain> ah, ofc .. one thing we did do right
20:33:44  <TrueBrain> but there might my confusion come from :D
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20:37:59  <TrueBrain> wb
20:38:09  <TrueBrain> I would get angry too about all this byte-swapping :D
20:38:23  <andythenorth> yo
20:38:31  <frosch123> my router is too crappy
20:39:00  <andythenorth> are we all well?
20:40:55  <frosch123> i rarely need flour
20:48:44  <andythenorth> alls well that ends well
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20:48:59  <andythenorth> I have daylength problems again
20:49:03  <andythenorth> it's getting a bit tedious
20:49:58  <andythenorth> can we merge daylength?
20:50:08  <andythenorth> then I can stop explaining that it doesn't exist
20:50:32  <glx> but it doesn't exist
20:50:56  <frosch123> andythenorth: are you extremely upset with tt-f?
20:51:31  <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, link them to the basecost grf
20:52:07  <frosch123> maybe the basecost grf should be renamed to "daylength fixes"
20:54:00  <TrueBrain> "UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xa9 in position 13: invalid start byte" <- oh-oh .... I never like to see that error :P
20:56:14  <andythenorth> daylength fixes :D
20:56:20  <Samu> which iron horse version is latest? I wanna try it
20:56:22  <andythenorth> does it also fix industry production?
20:56:40  <andythenorth> Samu: the one with the highest version number
20:56:59  <Samu> 7.7 ?
20:57:23  <andythenorth> really?
20:57:29  <andythenorth> is that a fork?
20:58:05  <TrueBrain> how many versions of CityBuilder are there? Holy crap :D
20:58:36  <andythenorth> 117?
20:58:49  <Samu> there's a 2.4.0, a 1.9.1, a 7.7 and a 0.1
20:58:50  <TrueBrain> okay ... MOST people used UTF-8 for their NUT files ...
20:58:52  <TrueBrain> 1 person did not
20:58:55  <TrueBrain> not looking at you Samu
20:58:58  <TrueBrain> but yeah, looking at you
20:59:07  <Samu> what did i do?
20:59:46  <Samu> i have no idea what's utf-8
20:59:55  <Samu> i used notepad++
20:59:56  <TrueBrain> frosch123: should we refuse files that are not utf-8 encoded? Correct it? Or leave it as it is?
21:00:01  <TrueBrain> it is only a small percentage of the uploads
21:00:07  <TrueBrain> (.nut files)
21:00:44  <TrueBrain> @base 16 10 a9
21:00:45  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 169
21:00:54  <Samu> how do I check for UTF-8 in notepad++
21:01:15  <glx> bottom right of the window
21:01:40  <TrueBrain> pound-sign is the issue, lol, the irony
21:01:47  <glx> by default it shows ANSI
21:01:52  <frosch123> win10 still defaults to ansi in editors
21:01:58  <TrueBrain> really? Holy crap ..
21:02:09  <TrueBrain> how does OpenTTD read nut-files ..
21:02:39  <frosch123> yeah, i did not use windows for 11 years. but i use it in my new job. holy crap did windows not progress at all
21:03:06  <frosch123> the previous years i wondered why they started with vs code to compete with their own msvc...
21:03:13  <frosch123> until i used msvc...
21:03:23  <TrueBrain> :D
21:03:39  <andythenorth> I thought Windows was all fixed now?
21:03:48  <frosch123> eclipse is slow sometimes, but boy does it have more features and a more sane interface
21:03:53  <andythenorth> many many many Mac users have considered switching
21:04:03  <andythenorth> as the Mac is not currently in a winning state
21:04:08  <Samu> brb installing, can't extract tars atm
21:04:29  <frosch123> andythenorth: windows added wsl
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21:04:52  <frosch123> first as an reimplementation of the kernel api, now they want to run a real kernel as vm, so they can run linux dockers
21:04:52  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD looks at the first two bytes to decide UTF-8 or ASCII (well, seems it is latin-1)
21:05:09  <frosch123> next obvious step is running windows as vm in linux, and then deprecate the nt kernel
21:05:11  <glx> it reads the BOM I guess
21:05:36  <TrueBrain> what is BOM
21:05:38  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i am quite sure ottd ignores the bom
21:05:45  <TrueBrain>
21:05:52  <TrueBrain> you are wrong frosch123  :P
21:06:32  <TrueBrain> okay, so if OpenTTD uses that, so should I :)
21:06:57  <frosch123> ah,  right, squirrel did
21:07:05  <LordAro> oh hey, it's that bit of the code
21:07:24  <frosch123> yeah, there was some major bug there last year
21:07:28  <frosch123> can't remember what though
21:07:34  <andythenorth> Samu: to answer your question, Horse 2.4.0
21:07:38  <LordAro> wasn't major
21:07:41  <andythenorth> it's quite interesting that it's really not obvious
21:07:57  <Samu> cool, ty
21:07:57  <LordAro> i think it was utf-8 + BOM + exactly power of 2 length file
21:08:09  <andythenorth> judging by forums + reddit, content seems to be incredibly hard to understand
21:08:19  <LordAro> yup
21:08:52  <TrueBrain> LordAro: sweet :D
21:09:03  <Samu> TrueBrain, ludiai has UTF-8 on all files here
21:09:10  <Samu> ludiai afterfix
21:09:17  <frosch123> andythenorth: you should be happy about that. everyone who does not manage to download firs, does not ask you about firs
21:09:19  <Samu> is it some other script?
21:09:27  <frosch123> you should welcome a strong prefilter
21:09:39  <andythenorth> that is certainly a view :)
21:11:24  <glx> andythenorth: I reopend nml#46, there's still missing doc updates :)
21:11:32  <andythenorth> yes
21:11:34  <andythenorth> oof :)
21:12:58  <Samu> ah, i found 2 ANSI nut files
21:13:03  <Samu> Company Value GS v4
21:13:57  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i guess converting encoding of scripts does change the md5sum, so no option :)
21:14:06  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I mean at upload :)
21:14:09  <TrueBrain> but I like this BOM, works for me
21:14:17  <TrueBrain> never knew it existed :D
21:14:20  <TrueBrain> learn-something-new-every-day
21:14:26  <frosch123> i think it's a ms idea
21:14:53  <glx> there's also UTF-16 BOM IIRC :)
21:15:12  <milek7> BOM is only for UTF-16
21:15:16  <frosch123> a lot of software breaks when boms are present
21:15:25  <milek7> in UTF-8 it is some stupid microsoft idea
21:15:36  <Samu> description = "Target company value (in thousand £)",
21:15:51  <Samu> xA3, not £
21:15:56  <Samu> is that the issue?
21:16:54  <TrueBrain> 15 lines of code to handle the BOM correctly, lolz
21:16:59  <TrueBrain> okay, that works
21:18:15  <TrueBrain> musa has no supported for Base Sounds and Base Music, LAME
21:19:07  <frosch123> really? but yeah, i can imagine noone would notice
21:19:37  <TrueBrain> we have 2 Base Sounds :P
21:20:04  <glx> including nosound ?
21:20:10  <TrueBrain> yes
21:20:57  <frosch123> i guess we never blacklisted the original graphics/sound, but people are likely not skilled enough to upload them
21:21:10  <TrueBrain> you would be correct!
21:21:19  <TrueBrain> we also don't really have a sane way to blacklist that tbh :)
21:21:36  <TrueBrain> well, the XOR of md5s
21:21:38  <TrueBrain> but ..
21:21:47  <TrueBrain> 1 more or less file, and tada
21:23:09  <TrueBrain> okay, I can detect the script-type (AI/GS) and short-name in all uploads
21:23:33  <TrueBrain> now their md5
21:24:17  <TrueBrain> well, not tonight :P
21:24:31  <Samu> I have changed encoding to UTF-8, but is this gonna work? look at that black 3 characters thingy
21:24:31  <TrueBrain> slow but steady wins the race and blabla
21:24:55  <milek7> wrong button
21:25:09  <milek7> you need to use convert function, not just change it
21:25:25  <Samu> me?
21:25:31  <milek7> yes
21:26:04  <glx> anyway no need to change encoding, openttd supports it
21:26:43  <TrueBrain> glx: it thinks it is doing ASCII, but it really is doing either extended ASCII or latin-1, still not sure .. does the font accept that correctly? :D
21:27:20  <glx> at worse it should show '?'
21:28:00  <frosch123> TrueBrain: can you detect scripts which fail to set a proper iso date?
21:28:03  <TrueBrain> that is not "supports it" :D I am really not sure, but I agree with you, it should be fine :)
21:28:05  <frosch123> and ban every author who tries
21:28:12  <Samu> UTF-8 broke it!
21:28:15  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I guess I can. Why? :D
21:28:18  <Samu> now looks bad ingame
21:28:34  <frosch123> see the last screenshot
21:28:48  <TrueBrain> gotcha!
21:28:50  <milek7> Samu: open original file
21:28:51  <frosch123> well, second last
21:29:01  <milek7> and use encoding->convert to utf8
21:29:01  <Samu> the original file is in ANSI
21:29:09  <Samu> ah, ok let me try
21:29:25  <TrueBrain> frosch123: but yeah, I was planning to do some sanity checks on all uploads, and give suggestions
21:29:29  <glx> Samu: because you need to replace xA3 with £ after changing encoding
21:29:38  <TrueBrain> this is one of them .. I would agree with: please use YYYY-MM-DD as date format, or something
21:29:55  <frosch123> TrueBrain: some scripts include files in info.nut, similar to rev.cpp
21:30:42  <TrueBrain> BaNaNaS never allowed uploading of entries where the short-name could not be read .. but yeah, for other fields people can use tricks, I guess :)
21:30:45  <TrueBrain> too bad :P
21:30:50  <TrueBrain> not going to write a nut-parser in Python :D
21:30:52  <frosch123> so i considered writing a py-squirrel c-extension module to read the real info.nut, like ottd does
21:31:24  <TrueBrain> well, you seem to fancy writing these things, so maybe next weekend this just appears on a gist or something? :D :D :D
21:31:41  <Samu> still looks broken, like in last ss
21:32:05  <Samu> £
21:32:29  <TrueBrain> open as ANSI, do what milek7  told you, ???, profit
21:32:29  <glx> means your file is wrong
21:32:57  <glx> else it's utf8 without bom
21:33:23  <TrueBrain> no no, he opened the ANSI file as UTF-8, converted it to UTF-8, breaking it even further :P
21:33:37  <Samu> I did what milek7 told me
21:33:45  <Samu> i opened ANSI file
21:35:34  <Samu> gonna try the 3 black thingy
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21:35:56  <milek7> ah, "convert to utf-8-bom"
21:36:22  <glx> squirrel needs bom, without it it assumes ASCII
21:37:01  <milek7> they must have changed naming in notepad++, previously it defaulted to bom and now it's other way around
21:37:39  <Samu> can't save with the black characters, i dont get it
21:38:38  <TrueBrain> Samu: glx already told you, forget about all this
21:38:42  <LordAro> racist text editor
21:38:57  <Samu> gonna try UTF8BOM
21:39:11  <glx> you can't save because the file is not modified :)
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21:39:56  <Samu> aha, UTF-8-BOM works!
21:40:08  <Samu> shows correctly in game
21:40:25  <LordAro> that's mildly disappointing
21:41:39  <Samu> UTF-8 still shows £
21:42:19  <glx> yes because £ is utf8 for £
21:42:31  <glx> and it's read as ascii
21:43:19  <glx> as said above, squirrel needs bom :)
21:45:20  <Samu> what are you going to do about it? do I need to release a fix?
21:45:37  <Samu> it's either ANSI or UTF-8-BOM, UTF-8 didn't work
21:45:43  <glx> you don't need to do anything
21:45:56  <LordAro> at absolute worst it just corrupts some debug messages
21:46:01  <LordAro> it's not exactly a huge issue
21:46:34  <TrueBrain> (mumbles softly: sorry rest of #openttd :P)
21:53:25  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: if the chat reads like half of a conversation that doesn't make sense, it can only mean one thing... :p
21:54:36  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: hahaha :D
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