Log for #openttd on 7th April 2020:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:07:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tomstorey opened issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6
00:12:11  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
00:44:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tomstorey commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6
02:16:07  *** glx has quit IRC
02:45:51  *** Laedek has joined #openttd
02:46:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tomstorey opened issue #8067: Toggling "Full animation" first glitches, then reduces vertical size
02:48:27  *** D-HUND has joined #openttd
02:51:41  *** debdog has quit IRC
03:02:52  *** kouett has quit IRC
03:03:30  *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC
03:03:53  *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC
03:04:23  *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
03:16:06  *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd
03:45:42  *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC
05:01:18  *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC
05:46:15  *** Samu has joined #openttd
05:53:21  *** nielsm has quit IRC
06:08:14  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
06:27:29  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
06:39:16  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:53:35  *** kouett has joined #openttd
06:55:23  <andythenorth> reddit needs state machines Eddi|zuHause has a newsletter about that
06:56:49  *** kouett has quit IRC
07:04:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8067: Toggling "Full animation" first glitches, then reduces vertical size
07:07:25  *** Gustavo6046_ has joined #openttd
07:09:02  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
07:10:36  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Can't you Mac people just throw your laptops out of the nearest window and use something sane?
07:10:53  <FLHerne> Seriously, the weirdness of those bugs has been escalating for years now
07:11:00  <andythenorth> empirical evidence suggests no
07:11:39  <andythenorth> the problems come from supporting a platform that is (a) marginal for users (b) marginal for it's vendor
07:11:44  <andythenorth> its *
07:12:07  <FLHerne> (and I'm using a heavily-custom-patched desktop on a bleeding-edge Linux system on unusual obsolete hardware, so my threshold for 'weird bugs' is pretty low)
07:12:18  <FLHerne> high? whatever
07:13:02  <andythenorth> mac is only ~18% of desktop operating system share
07:13:09  <andythenorth> and it's of no interest to Apple
07:13:25  <andythenorth> so the OS degrades regularly
07:13:26  <FLHerne> Apropos of nothing much:
07:13:28  <FLHerne> KDE bug 379093 in Spectacle (General) "Spectacle logs user out of the system when user clicks Export image > Share > Save as"
07:13:45  <FLHerne> > "As the maintainer of this piece of software, I have a very important question to ask: WHAT THE ACTUAL *^*&%&W*?"
07:14:03  <andythenorth> that's special
07:14:25  <andythenorth> hmm, Mac user life was much better when it was 4% of desktop OS, and 90% of Apple revenue :x
07:16:07  *** kouett has joined #openttd
07:16:22  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: sounds like an X server crash to me
07:16:35  *** kouett has quit IRC
07:17:31  <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of crash. i have this feeling that we had a crash in SelectCompanyLiveryWindow::GroupNameSorter before
07:20:36  <Eddi|zuHause> can't find any evidence of that, though
07:22:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tomstorey commented on issue #8067: Toggling "Full animation" first glitches, then reduces vertical size
07:31:24  *** kouett has joined #openttd
08:05:49  *** Samu has quit IRC
08:06:26  *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC
08:06:32  *** Samu has joined #openttd
08:06:35  *** D-HUND has quit IRC
08:07:03  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
08:07:31  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:07:40  *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd
08:07:44  *** debdog has joined #openttd
08:20:55  *** k-man has quit IRC
08:27:02  *** Smedles has quit IRC
08:27:17  *** Smedles has joined #openttd
08:31:21  *** k-man has joined #openttd
08:36:47  *** Gustavo6046__ has joined #openttd
08:37:19  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
08:38:22  *** Gustavo6046_ has quit IRC
08:44:41  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
08:44:54  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
08:48:59  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
08:49:13  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
09:39:09  *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
09:40:38  *** k-man has quit IRC
09:40:48  *** Gustavo6046__ has quit IRC
09:41:10  *** k-man has joined #openttd
09:46:22  *** supermop_Home has quit IRC
10:16:59  <Wolf01> Pfff, I'm already tired
11:03:32  *** rotterdxm has joined #openttd
11:03:55  <rotterdxm> ola. moving in 2 days :) i trust all have been well here?
11:04:42  <rotterdxm> found this article again, thought it would be fun to share
11:48:29  <andythenorth> rotterdxm on the one hand that's fascinating and great, and on the other it's like 'no shit?' :)
11:48:42  <andythenorth> physics can optimise for flows between nodes
11:48:51  <andythenorth> nice article though
12:11:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination
12:22:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination
12:43:38  <andythenorth> hmm
12:43:47  <andythenorth> FIRS Steeltown is really quite rad
12:43:53  <andythenorth> but the apex cargo is Vehicles
12:44:09  <andythenorth> and they just don't quite work
12:44:26  <andythenorth>
12:44:37  <andythenorth> they go to a vehicle dealer, which is a black hole industry
12:45:23  <rotterdxm> you want circular?
12:45:51  *** cHawk has joined #openttd
12:47:02  <andythenorth> I tried that, it's no better :)
12:54:02  <rotterdxm> then it´s inevitable that a black hole industry will exist at the end of the chain...
12:54:18  <rotterdxm> maybe the scrap yard production could be boosted if a lot of vehicles are sold?
12:55:15  <rotterdxm> maybe people trade in their old vehicles for new ones so it produces recyclabes or scrap metal
12:55:21  <rotterdxm> ¨produces¨
12:55:34  *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd
13:02:46  <andythenorth> the weird things are
13:03:02  <andythenorth> - vehicle distributor is small (3x2 tiles)
13:03:07  <andythenorth> - amounts of vehicles are larg
13:03:11  <andythenorth> large *
13:03:55  <andythenorth> this is really a different problem
13:04:04  <andythenorth> 1. town cargos have no purpose
13:04:21  <andythenorth> 2. there's no mechanic to incentivise or force distributing across multiple destinations
13:07:16  <rotterdxm> so is it possible to have towns influenced by cargos delivered? yes. so maybe it is a requirement in steeltown economy for vehicles to be delivered for growth? perhaps not as a blanket redtext but as a variable
13:08:01  <rotterdxm> i mean it fits the setting of the economy, considering the cars are not exported
13:11:25  <rotterdxm> now that i watch the new economy desc... i see a few new industries. can´t wait to see what they look like
13:15:14  *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
13:15:40  <andythenorth> industry newgrf can't control town growth cargos
13:16:04  <andythenorth> it's a challenging problem, as it interacts badly with gamescript
13:16:12  <andythenorth> and historical game
13:16:15  <andythenorth> and houses
13:16:20  <andythenorth> and newgrf houses
13:16:26  <andythenorth> :D
13:16:35  <rotterdxm> nyeh
13:16:36  <rotterdxm> ok
13:16:47  <rotterdxm> worth a shot
13:17:01  <rotterdxm> (not for you to implement, but for me to suggest)
13:17:24  <rotterdxm> OK good to know though. so... using a port industry specifically for export of vehicles?
13:17:37  <andythenorth> would it produce anything in return?
13:17:47  <andythenorth> I tried accept vehicles, produce scrap
13:17:52  <andythenorth> doesn't really work
13:18:14  <andythenorth> maybe it's just a graphical issue, vehicle distributor should be large
13:18:17  <rotterdxm> yeah i can see that. let me check the cargo flow
13:18:21  <rotterdxm> you could definitely do that
13:19:18  <rotterdxm> is In a Hot Country also going away?
13:20:48  <rotterdxm> so, checking the cargo flow. so the assembly plant makes farm supplies?
13:21:00  <rotterdxm> interesting
13:22:02  <andythenorth> tractors
13:22:19  <andythenorth> ENSP and FMSP are quite freely available in Steeltown
13:24:55  <rotterdxm> i´m just surprised by the 3 cargos produced
13:25:03  <rotterdxm> but i guess that´s a new feature
13:25:22  <andythenorth> checkout the Wharf :P
13:26:11  <rotterdxm> interesting.
13:26:18  <rotterdxm> and the bulk terminal too
13:26:31  <rotterdxm> i kinda like this one, even though i will miss the old
13:26:41  <andythenorth> I enjoyed designing for the limitation
13:26:46  <andythenorth> but this is definitely better
13:27:21  <andythenorth> the 3-in, 2-out was a nice puzzle game as a designer
13:27:30  <andythenorth> but didn't make a great industry transport game
13:27:42  <rotterdxm> i can see how that would work. it´s a puzzle
13:27:54  <andythenorth> it caused a lot of silly composite cargos, like 'metal'
13:27:58  <andythenorth> and 'packaging'
13:28:12  <rotterdxm> as someone who uses ships most of the time, i am pleased by the increased importance of the shore based industry hubs :D:D
13:29:05  <rotterdxm> so you´d rather have very specific cargos rather than the more broad categories
13:29:08  <rotterdxm> ?
13:29:37  <andythenorth> generally it's better, not 100% rule
13:30:01  <andythenorth> 'vehicle parts' works better than splitting up 'springs, seats, lights' etc
13:30:21  <andythenorth> but 'tyres' works better than including tyres in 'vehicle parts'
13:31:48  <rotterdxm> agree
13:32:33  <rotterdxm> other than the vehicle distributor, any other sticking points for steeltown economy?
13:34:44  <andythenorth> it seems pretty good
13:34:51  <andythenorth> I have a test game running
13:35:06  <andythenorth> it has taken 60 years to complete the chain
13:35:25  <andythenorth> and I reset the date 3 times, so more like 75 years
13:35:35  <andythenorth> do you want a test grf?
13:35:47  <rotterdxm> would love that
13:36:03  <andythenorth> do you have a FIRS build?  Or I can DM it
13:36:24  <rotterdxm> i don´t have a FIRS build, just the 3.0.12 GRF, DM would be great
13:37:04  <andythenorth> sent
13:37:10  <andythenorth> shout if it doesn't work
13:37:20  <andythenorth> (forums)
13:45:55  <rotterdxm> got it, tried it, it works. i am surprised by the vehicle compatibility
13:46:06  <rotterdxm> thought i would need updated sets
13:48:05  <andythenorth> you might get weird results with some sets
13:48:10  <andythenorth> should be mostly fine
13:49:21  <rotterdxm> i will try to break it in new and interesting ways. <3
13:50:03  <rotterdxm> i tried HEQS, Road Hog, Iron Horse and SQUID ate FISH just now, cursory glance at the vehicle purchase menu shows no anomalies. but we´ll see how it goes
13:57:40  <rotterdxm> andythenorth,
13:57:52  <rotterdxm> vehicles required? did you implement it?
13:58:06  <rotterdxm> or is that a quirk of me using the tropical climate
13:58:28  <andythenorth> it's because there's no goods
13:58:41  <andythenorth> OpenTTD has no way to handle that situation
13:58:47  <rotterdxm> gotcha
14:00:22  <rotterdxm> OK, going to have some fun with this :D if you want any graphics for the new industries that are using placeholders, i´m there for it
14:03:00  <rotterdxm> i am SO here for this map
14:11:22  *** Artea has joined #openttd
14:18:53  <rotterdxm> OK the road hog edibles tanker trucks can transport paints/coatings, acid, cleaning agents, coal tar and chlorine.
14:19:33  <rotterdxm> so i assume (and will check) if this is the case for other vehicles too. at least it´s better to have the choice than to not have a suitable vehicle
14:19:58  <rotterdxm> so the cryo plant... its production cannot be boosted. interesting
14:33:46  <andythenorth> edibles is a bit lolz
14:55:37  *** Flygon has quit IRC
15:05:16  *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd
15:17:14  <rotterdxm> interesting that the wharf has the exact same cargo reception as the builders yard, but without the benefits of producing stuff
15:17:51  <rotterdxm> other than it being a bit harder to keep the placeholder industries apart, this is fun and a whole new way to play FIRS
15:21:14  <andythenorth> the builders yard is just there for players who want realism of delivering to towns
15:21:18  <andythenorth> I don't use it
15:23:57  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Can't you do an ECS and limit the amount of intake?
15:24:30  <FLHerne> (my memories of ECS are pretty vague)
15:24:43  *** cHawk has quit IRC
15:25:01  *** cHawk has joined #openttd
15:29:58  <andythenorth> I can but it's annoying to players, and breaks AIs and breaks cargodist
15:30:29  <andythenorth> my preferred solution is to be able to define town growth cargos
15:42:34  <rotterdxm> well, i saw the vehicle distributor and the builders yard just spawned out in the middle of nowhere
15:42:37  <rotterdxm> but that does make sense
15:43:47  <andythenorth> they should be spawning 'near town' but the location check code is broken currently
16:17:08  <Wolf01> 
17:01:50  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
17:26:46  *** gelignite has quit IRC
17:32:43  *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:34:47  *** glx has joined #openttd
17:34:47  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
17:36:39  <Wolf01> hahah
17:41:38  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
17:45:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:45:50  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
17:54:44  <nielsm> hm so, 1.10.1?
17:54:46  <nielsm> cmake?
17:55:13  <glx> both ?
17:55:56  <nielsm> it just occurred to me that having 1.10 branch on old build system and master on cmake might get annoying
17:56:17  <peter1138> Why?
17:56:27  <glx> compile farm supports both
17:56:44  <nielsm> maybe not, since barely anyone will be building 1.10 branch anyway
18:01:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7193: Fix #6468: Load correct version of AI as specified during the time of its save.
18:07:01  <andythenorth> 1.11 or bust :P
18:09:14  <nielsm> trying cmake build for first time now :D
18:09:26  <nielsm> so spammy
18:10:17  <nielsm> and it looks like it did not link zlib and more
18:11:17  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> 1.11 or bust :P <- add that 3D shit and do 2.0 :P
18:15:03  <LordAro> nielsm: as long as no one touches any build systemy stuff in 1.10, shouldn't matter at all
18:15:25  <nielsm> hmm how do I make it figure out where I installed vcpkg..
18:15:27  <LordAro> 1.10.1 should happen sooner rather than later though
18:15:46  <LordAro> nielsm: there's probably an (undocumented) variable you need to set
18:16:00  <LordAro> it's been a while, but the cmake gui was quite good at exposing them
18:21:58  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
18:22:10  <nielsm> awesome, now vcpkg imploded on itself
18:22:40  <nielsm> I tried updating it and when it wanted to rebuild all packages it deleted them then failed to rebuild anything at all
18:25:50  <nielsm> okay figured out what I did wrong
18:30:20  <rotterdxm> 3d shit what :O
18:30:56  <Wolf01> rotterdxm,
18:32:27  <rotterdxm> woo that looks like a board game. i like it
18:35:19  <nielsm> WILDNESS
18:35:36  <nielsm> built with clang instead of microsoft cl and it just worked
18:35:51  <LordAro> nice
18:39:12  <nielsm> clang spews a ton of warnings about using MS language extensions though, in particular the "sealed" keyword which FINAL is defined to
18:39:25  <nielsm> that should perhaps check compiler instead of target OS :P
18:47:07  *** syr has quit IRC
18:47:29  *** syr has joined #openttd
18:48:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
18:50:32  <FLHerne> LordAro: > Always allow building any available roadtypes < why?
18:51:20  <LordAro> because that's what was requested :p
18:52:06  <FLHerne> LordAro: The current behaviour is consistent with railtypes, tramways, and IIRC airports?
18:52:13  <FLHerne> And stops people building pointless stuff
18:52:40  <LordAro> some people wanted to be able to build roads without having road vehicles available
18:52:42  <FLHerne> I don't understand why removing that feature makes any sense
18:53:11  <FLHerne> For scenery?
18:53:17  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18:54:00  <FLHerne> How many games don't have road vehicles available, and why, and why would someone who wants to build roads play in one?
18:54:05  <Wolf01> Reply no.1: use the scenario editor
18:55:31  <frosch123> LordAro: are you still working on that PR?
18:56:42  <frosch123> as it is, it does not make a lot of sense to me
18:56:50  <frosch123> and it seems getting more complicated
18:56:56  <frosch123> so 1.10.1 without it?
19:01:46  <LordAro> yeah, i took the backport flag off it
19:03:22  <nielsm> and as expected, the clang (release) build is slightly faster than the microsoft c++ build
19:04:31  <nielsm> I'm getting almost 10% improvement in frame times on wentbourne
19:05:57  <nielsm> and the exe file is smaller too
19:06:08  <glx> [20:09:28] <nielsm> so spammy <-- that's because ninja uses the output to determine dependencies
19:06:22  <glx> and it's annoying :)
19:06:52  <nielsm> glx actually I was referencing how it by default uses the -v switch to print full command lines for every build command
19:07:01  <glx> ah
19:07:36  <glx> editing the json is easy anyway
19:08:34  <glx> and indeed I should really try to "install" when I rebase :)
19:09:23  <nielsm> can we change it so it defaults to the *-windows-static triplet instead of *-windows triplet for vcpkg?
19:09:40  <glx> yes you can do that in the json
19:09:49  <nielsm> no I mean so every developer doesn't have to do that
19:10:19  <nielsm> or otherwise change the install target so it also copies the dll files
19:15:29  <nielsm>  <- shouldn't several of those defines be in the #if defined(_WIN32) block rather than the _MSC_VER block, technically
19:15:47  *** debdog has quit IRC
19:17:39  <glx> dunno how mingw would handle that
19:18:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available
19:19:32  <FLHerne> LordAro: ^comment
19:20:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
19:22:13  <nielsm> perhaps deletable:
19:22:59  <glx> line 175 needs an update too I guess
19:24:17  <glx> minimum version for cmake is 2017
19:27:25  <LordAro> FLHerne: needs to go on the issue itself, really
19:29:32  <nielsm> glx: I'm not sure it makes sense to remove objs/, rev.cpp and ottdres.rc from gitignore during the transition period, but I think projects/.vs should be changed to just .vs/ since that will likely move to the root checkout dir for most
19:29:40  <nielsm> also CMakeSettings.json should probably be added
19:30:22  <nielsm> or is the intention that everyone should set up the build entirely outside the source tree?
19:30:26  <FLHerne> LordAro: IMO, the issue (crash excluded) should just be closed as "not a bug"
19:30:49  <LordAro> FLHerne: that's a perfectly valid opinion
19:30:52  <LordAro> put it in the issue :p
19:31:32  <glx> I configured mine to have subdirs in 'build'
19:32:23  *** adikt has quit IRC
19:33:11  *** debdog has joined #openttd
19:35:27  <nielsm> I also get this when building with cl:
19:42:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available
19:55:30  <glx> yeah I don't understand why we get this warning, we set the policy, we check it's possible to enable IPO and enable it based on the test result
19:56:00  <glx> and if we use cmake minimum 3.9 instead of 3.5 it works fine
20:01:33  *** rotterdxm has quit IRC
20:02:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
20:02:46  <glx> I think it's a vcpkg issue
20:10:32  <glx> or more because the way cmake works, I think the toolchain is on a higher level so when we change the policy it doesn't see the new value
20:16:05  *** tokai has joined #openttd
20:16:05  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
20:22:53  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
20:27:54  <glx> <-- for some reason policy setting disapear at vcpkg level
20:28:56  <Samu> I accidentaly created a water pathfinder
20:30:01  <Samu> it builds aqueducts, it builds locks, it can use rivers and sea... still needs to check for ship depots and buoys
20:33:00  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
20:33:04  <Samu> I have a feeling it's incredibly slow though
20:34:15  *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest21554
20:34:17  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
20:35:19  *** Guest21554 has quit IRC
20:56:53  *** arikover has joined #openttd
21:01:03  <andythenorth> can we [something something] give newgrf control of town cargos?
21:01:17  <andythenorth> also the house acceptance bug, is that a bug? :P
21:02:24  * andythenorth asking for friend
21:05:31  <nielsm> house acceptance bug?
21:06:43  *** Samu has quit IRC
21:08:03  <andythenorth> houses don't use cargo labels for acceptance
21:08:26  <andythenorth> so industry grfs have to (1) put cargos in specific numeric slots (2) provide goods, food, mail in all cases
21:09:12  <nielsm> uh that does sound like a problem
21:09:45  <nielsm> and of a kind that doesn't have a good fix since it requires a spec change
21:10:17  <andythenorth> I didn't check if we have a GH issue for it
21:10:42  <nielsm> I don't remember seeing one, if there is it's closed
21:12:52  <andythenorth> I am too tired to write one today :)
21:12:59  <andythenorth> needs a pre-made test grf also
21:17:04  <nielsm> gn
21:19:01  *** cHawk- has joined #openttd
21:21:22  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
21:25:07  *** cHawk has quit IRC
21:25:09  *** nielsm has quit IRC
21:29:18  *** Progman has quit IRC
21:34:16  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
22:14:19  *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC
22:14:43  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
22:14:46  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
22:19:55  *** arikover has quit IRC
22:47:20  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
23:03:42  *** mikegrb has quit IRC
23:03:48  *** mikegrb has joined #openttd
23:40:39  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
23:41:42  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
23:46:02  *** TrueBrain has quit IRC
23:46:34  *** TrueBrain_ii has quit IRC
23:48:41  *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk