Log for #openttd on 13th April 2020:
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06:39:27  <Samu> hi
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07:07:39  <Samu> _dp_ did you figure out anything about the time complexities
07:20:13  <andythenorth> 64 cargo limit per game you say? :D
07:20:18  * andythenorth wonders about breaching that :P
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08:02:55  <Wolf01> Hmmm, I miss traffic manager in... transport fever
08:03:38  <andythenorth> maybe 64 cargos is a goal
08:03:41  <andythenorth> hmm
08:04:11  <Samu> I just found a use case where I need to work
08:05:17  <Samu> somebody plz push it to next release, backport request or whatever it is called
08:22:38  <Samu> thx in advance
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08:36:57  <andythenorth> Food Additives....'FADD' label? o_O
08:37:25  <LordAro> andythenorth: ENUM
08:37:31  <andythenorth> ha ha
08:37:41  <andythenorth> too good
08:38:04  <SpComb> EXXX
08:46:48  <andythenorth> Furniture is easy :P
08:47:31  <andythenorth> IKEA
08:47:41  <andythenorth> not really, I used FURN
09:04:34  <Eddi|zuHause> are we still talking about steeltown or is that "done"? :p
09:07:24  <andythenorth> 'done'
09:07:36  <andythenorth> I tried some variations, they're not adding anything
09:07:45  <andythenorth> I tried 'more stuff', also doesn't add anything
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09:08:28  <andythenorth> I am working on new extreme
09:08:42  <andythenorth> very early, but the clusters are starting to form
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09:09:54  <andythenorth> clusters are something like: steel industry, petro and salt chemicals chain, food
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09:10:25  <andythenorth> the cement / brick / gypsum building chain isn't clustering nicely yet
09:10:39  <andythenorth> the consumer goods cluster really isn't visible
09:12:00  * andythenorth coffee
09:43:05  <Samu> great... bug strikes when least expected
09:48:17  <LordAro> that does tend to be the case
09:49:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly
09:50:34  <Samu> aqueduct was already there
10:00:08  <Samu> interesting, my fix doesn't work here? Im sad
10:00:38  <Samu> must investigate this better
10:01:56  <Samu> ah, i'm testing this wrong
10:02:12  <Samu> the fix is correct
10:02:20  <Samu> it's something with my pathfinder instead
10:02:53  <Samu> deleted
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10:10:59  <Samu> oh, it's a mix of this bug, and a mix of my pathfinder
10:16:00  <Samu> I'm still doing this check AIMarine.AreWaterTilesConnected(cur_node, next_tile) for when there's water at the tiles, in this case, it returns true
10:16:23  <Samu> but when there's no water at the tile under the aqueduct, the error is on the pathfinder side
10:16:37  <Samu> gonna fix
10:19:23  <Samu> AITile.HasTransportType(next_tile, AITile.TRANSPORT_WATER)
10:19:33  <Samu> cur_node is the tile under aqueduct
10:19:42  <Samu> next_tile is the aqueduct ramp next to cur_node
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10:40:18  <Wolf01> but people don't have a life? It's fantastic, but I need one week just to build a nice station...
10:58:42  <Samu> - smartened up
11:00:04  <Samu> but, if i place a canal under the aqueduct, it's gonna behave wrong again, because this time it relies on AreWaterTilesConnected, which is bugged. Just gonna confirm if this is still the case
11:01:45  <Samu> confirmed
11:03:02  <Samu> making me sad :(
11:04:09  <Samu> gonna test with PR fix, see if it goes away
11:07:36  <Samu> so slow in debug mode...
11:07:52  <LordAro> Samu: you're rambling again
11:08:02  <LordAro> enough with the stream of consciousness
11:11:07  <Samu> I am sorry, it's... just the way I am, my bad
11:11:26  <andythenorth> interesting
11:11:51  <andythenorth> I don't encounter any of those issues
11:12:35  <andythenorth> but for work purposes I often end up having specific fixes for things like getting libs in the path, or having a specific lib version
11:12:50  <andythenorth> I never have documentation for these, they're always a moment in time thing and stuff changes
11:13:38  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Neat
11:14:01  <FLHerne> [FIRS, I mean]
11:14:07  <andythenorth> I think it develops
11:14:20  <andythenorth> there's another 10-15 cargos to figure out
11:14:26  <andythenorth> I am going full on Extreme
11:14:59  <andythenorth> it's interesting that in both Steeltown and Better Living Through Chemistry, salt is the root cargo for all industry
11:15:30  <andythenorth>
11:16:30  <andythenorth> this was an accident, not an intent
11:17:35  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I still think too many cargos might be a design mistake :P
11:18:08  <andythenorth> some will turn out to be removable
11:18:30  <FLHerne> Sharing one cargo between several industries gives the player more options and decisions
11:18:38  <andythenorth> I'm not sure if 'household appliances' and 'furniture' might just be 'goods' etc
11:18:54  <andythenorth> in terms of options...
11:18:54  <FLHerne> And anyone playing FIRS Extreme is into that ;-)
11:19:05  <andythenorth> whereas Steeltown aims for 1 destination in most cases
11:19:17  <andythenorth> this new one explicitly will have 2 destinations in more cases
11:19:28  <FLHerne> Yes, the current version isn't too bad
11:20:04  <andythenorth> it's going to have to be acronymed BLTC
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11:21:11  <FLHerne> I do kind of miss the "every damn corner of the map" thing with Chemicals from older FIRS
11:21:43  <FLHerne> Given one or two refineries, it basically forces you to make a single connected network
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12:30:47  <supermop_Home_> hi
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13:02:22  <frosch123> TrueBrain: how does the developer authentication work? /user/developer gives 404
13:02:58  <TrueBrain> frosch123: make a POST call to /user/developer with a JSON payload {"username": "whatever"}
13:03:13  <frosch123> oh, right, POST not GET
13:03:17  <TrueBrain> the regression uses this, if you need inspiration :D
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14:23:37  <andythenorth> oof
14:23:45  * andythenorth has been making model trains with kids
14:23:51  <andythenorth> failure to ottd
14:25:28  <Wolf01> I, need, sweets.
14:27:45  <Wolf01> A tablet of chocolate should be enough
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14:31:32  * nielsm is looking at nautical maps
14:38:49  <nielsm> I wonder if it would be better to make the depth scale for my water depth patch non-linear
14:39:43  <nielsm> at least for ship navigation, anything deeper than 20 m is probably irrelevant
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14:45:22  <nielsm> but having depth 0 to 5 use 20 m increments (10, 20, 40, 60, 80, 100 m) and past that use 50 m increments might give more interesting numbers (150, 200, 250, ... 600 m at depth 15)
14:45:56  <Wolf01> Do we really need more depths than shallowd and deep?
14:45:59  <supermop_Home> affect submarine disaster?
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14:46:57  <supermop_Home> Wolf01 i imagine it would be nice for cost of filling in the ocean
14:47:24  <nielsm> yeah the reason for large depths is mainly to support the costs
14:47:28  <Wolf01> Or even buiding some industries
14:48:03  <nielsm> I did look that up earlier, offshore oil rigs exist on anything from 5 m depth to 2500 m depth :)
14:48:26  <nielsm> though there could be a technological progression in depths they can be built at
14:49:12  <supermop_Home> shallow rigs available from 19xx, deep from 19xx +YY
14:49:45  <supermop_Home> or shallow rigs are more probable to be successful than deep
14:49:50  <nielsm> yeah, allow on depth 0 from 1940, on depth 2 from 1970, any depth from 1990
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14:49:53  <nielsm> something like that
14:50:28  <lolek> hi, so I've did update to openttd 1.10 and I have the streetcar lines button but it's disabled... is there anything I need to do to be able to use it?
14:50:40  <nielsm> hi lolek
14:50:55  <nielsm> yeah you need to have a newgrf loaded that supplies vehicles for it
14:51:01  <supermop_Home> firs dredging site unlikely over the mariana trench - unless you are really desperate for sand
14:51:05  <lolek> hmm
14:51:06  <nielsm> the default vehicle set doesn't have any streetcars
14:51:30  <lolek> nielsm: ok, do you have the name at hand?
14:51:45  <nielsm> there's many, and no I don't have any recommendation
14:51:55  <supermop_Home> lolek there are probably 10-30 options
14:52:15  <supermop_Home> perhaps search online content for 'trams' to see some options
14:52:32  <lolek> if it require the grf... then whey the button is showing even though I don't have it? It should not be visible...if it's not bundled imho
14:52:52  <supermop_Home> lolek that is how it was before
14:53:24  <lolek> well I see it that after few years, there will be tons of inactive buttons just because there may be someone that have the grf
14:53:29  <lolek> I think this is not how it should be
14:53:33  <supermop_Home> new features in 1.10 change the way streetcar lines work in game though
14:53:39  <nielsm> the storybook and goals buttons also show all the time despite requiring a gamescript loaded that uses them
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14:56:54  <supermop_Home> also in 16 years there have been only like 3 buttons added, i believe?
14:57:12  <nielsm> sounds about right
15:00:15  <supermop_Home> though i wouldn't mind if the game came with one crappy generic tram built in
15:01:19  <supermop_Home> lolek perhaps you would like opengfx+ for trams? it is very vanilla
15:01:32  <lolek> I'll see
15:01:35  <lolek> thanks for the hint
15:02:02  <supermop_Home> then also I personally like Road Hog, but it is a bit different
15:02:06  <nielsm>
15:02:12  <supermop_Home> good balanced variety though
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15:02:49  <supermop_Home> lolek - you can also look for Mop Generic Road Vehicles, which is my Grf, but it has a few bugs still
15:03:19  <supermop_Home> Road Hog is probably the most fun
15:04:53  <Samu> locks are complicated creatures :|
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15:17:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GrupoDO opened issue #8084: Add option to (de)couple wagons at stations in Orders list
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15:18:13  <nielsm> ooooh hohohoho that feature request...
15:18:36  <LordAro> ahaha
15:18:41  <LordAro> "good luck!"
15:18:59  <nielsm> someone did implement a working prototype a year or two ago
15:19:03  <LordAro> close it under the same "no vague feature requests" rule
15:21:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
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15:25:46  <nielsm> LordAro I'll just add the "good first issue" label ok?
15:29:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8084: Add option to (de)couple wagons at stations in Orders list
15:29:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #8084: Add option to (de)couple wagons at stations in Orders list
15:29:30  <LordAro> nielsm: :p
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15:31:38  <Samu> I nearly forgot how strikingly complex it is to pathfind around locks and maintaining connections open
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15:42:27  <supermop_Home> sometimes i think about newgrf bridges
15:42:59  <supermop_Home> certain bridges being more cost effective over deep water vs shallow
15:45:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
15:49:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command
15:50:32  <nielsm> supermop_Home absolutely, suspension bridges with spans longer than 3 tiles
15:54:25  <supermop_Home> might need to get a bit more nuance in BRidgeTypes.. something like certain bridges cost scales per tile, maybe per depth per tile
15:55:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7339: Fix #7311: External configuration file does not change directories
15:55:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #7339: Fix #7311: External configuration file does not change directories
15:55:41  <supermop_Home> maybe a suspension bridge is expensive even when short, but cost goes up slower as it gets longer, and doesn't go up much at all with depth
15:56:21  <supermop_Home> wood bridge is cheap, but cost goes up linearly with length and geometrically with depth
15:56:59  <supermop_Home> or maybe it is just impossible to build a wood trestle over a 300m deep fjord
15:57:33  <nielsm> wood bridge might also not support large depths (due to construction techniques), only cantilever over short spans, and have extra high maintenance cost for segments with underwater supports
16:00:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7328: Feature: Improve restart command
16:01:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7328: Feature: Improve restart command
16:03:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7880: Fix: Remove some redundant steps during world generation
16:03:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #7880: Fix: Remove some redundant steps during world generation
16:04:03  <nielsm>,_Nongriat_village,_Meghalaya2.jpg :D?
16:05:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator
16:12:50  <frosch123> changing features that noone uses :)
16:13:00  <frosch123> almost guaranteed to be broken, with noone noticing
16:13:56  <LordAro> quite
16:14:08  <LordAro> why does the freeform edges setting even exist?
16:14:20  <frosch123> to load old savegames
16:14:29  <LordAro> yes, but why a user-configurable setting
16:14:41  <LordAro> just load TTD saves with a water border
16:15:14  <frosch123> why the setting is in the gui, i don't know
16:15:21  <frosch123> but you cannot just load old savegames with the setting on
16:15:27  <frosch123> old maps are bigger
16:15:38  <LordAro> ooh yeah
16:15:41  <LordAro> that stupid edgecase
16:15:45  <LordAro> bleh.
16:15:45  <frosch123> old maps can have stuff on north border, which become void
16:18:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7886: Group management enhancements
16:20:54  <frosch123> what happened to 1.10.1?
16:21:57  <LordAro> someone should do that
16:22:06  <LordAro> apparently no one other than me does releases anymore
16:23:38  <frosch123> oh, i did not know that job was also shared
16:24:28  <LordAro> :p
16:25:28  <frosch123> serious question. some jobs require constant tracking of stuff. if tasks are split over too many people, things are doomed to fail
16:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause> usually you would do releases on a thursday, so you have friday to fix the most pressing issues, and catch the people that are playing on weekends
16:34:25  <frosch123> thanks, very helpful
16:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> (none of that really applies to  openttd, anyway :p)
16:37:11  <LordAro> i'm putting a branch together anyway
16:37:19  <LordAro> just looking at #8074 first, since Samu did ask
16:37:31  <LordAro> as per usual, i'm not convinced it's the correct solution
16:38:53  <frosch123> yes, looks wrong
16:43:37  <LordAro> i was looking at the pathfinder stuff to try to work out how that works, given that works, as far as i'm aware
16:43:57  <frosch123> i think the diagdir needs reversing in the call to gettiletrackstatus
16:44:16  <frosch123> in ship_cmd that parameter is called exitdir
16:44:28  <frosch123> here it seems to be a enterdir
16:46:13  <Eddi|zuHause> don't we have a "EnterDirToExitDir" function or something?
16:46:23  <frosch123> thanks, very helpful
16:46:58  <LordAro> :D
16:48:03  <Eddi|zuHause> there'll be that one moment when he actually means it :p
16:50:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly
16:51:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 requested changes for pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly
16:52:03  * frosch123 stop wasting time with PRs, and continues with bananas
16:52:50  <Eddi|zuHause> you forgot a "wasting time" in the second half of that sentence :p
16:53:16  <nielsm> I'm having banana ice cream right now and it does not feel like a waste of my time
16:55:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #8085: Prepare for 1.10.1 release
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16:56:33  <andythenorth> hmm
16:56:35  <andythenorth> GLUE cargo
16:57:18  <nielsm> you can load but never unload
16:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause> we already have that feature, when a coal mine appears next to your coal unload station
16:59:31  <nielsm> reminds me someone should code the manual cargo selection for stations
17:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i kinda like the way that is done in transport fever, where that is part of the order list
17:01:47  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i think cargo selection once existed in a patchpack 10 years ago, but got rejected because you could cheat your way out of a bad cargo rating that way
17:03:23  <nielsm> hmm it should be doable without having to reset the ratings though
17:03:55  <nielsm> though it might need an extra flag per cargo
17:07:22  <andythenorth> unrelated, can 'refit fixed cargo' use a list?
17:07:27  <andythenorth> not a single cargo
17:09:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #8085: Prepare for 1.10.1 release
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17:15:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what do you mean?
17:26:12  <andythenorth> currently we have 'refit fixed cargo' or 'refit any available'
17:26:19  <andythenorth> refit any available is broken with cdist
17:26:57  <andythenorth> a possible solution is 'refit to any cargo from list...'
17:28:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that would be somewhat like transport fever
17:28:49  <Eddi|zuHause> this would be possible, but it runs into the "the order GUI is already hoplessly overloaded" problem
17:32:13  <andythenorth> I am aware of the UI issue, didn't think of a fix
17:32:19  <andythenorth> other than checkboxes :(
17:32:41  <andythenorth> 'refit any available' creates unwanted cdist links, with no way to remove them
17:33:01  <andythenorth> does *exactly* what the order says, but it's completely unhelpful :)
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17:39:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8085: Prepare for 1.10.1 release
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18:09:14  <nielsm> okay so news post and release tag?
18:15:31  <LordAro> sure
18:15:39  <LordAro> nielsm: i delegate the news post to you
18:15:49  <nielsm> on it
18:38:45  <FLHerne> When is ActionD actually executed? At grf load time?
18:39:06  <FLHerne> And if someone changes grf settings in-game, does it all get run again?
18:39:49  <frosch123> yes and yes
18:40:10  <frosch123> <- more details
18:40:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh opened pull request #156:  Add: News post for 1.10.1
18:41:27  <nielsm> not sure that's a good post
18:42:42  <Samu> what is root cause analysis for dummies?
18:42:43  <FLHerne> nielsm: I think the admin port change should be described better
18:42:43  <frosch123> it's a bit negative, usually we make fun of players
18:44:11  <FLHerne> "This restores compatibility of the admin port protocol with older versions. Clients that were updated to match 1.10.0 will need changing again, sorry."
18:44:16  <FLHerne> Or so
18:45:05  <FLHerne> And what's a "minor crash bug"?
18:45:33  <nielsm> one that would rarely occur during normal use?
18:47:42  <FLHerne> I guess so, but it still sounds silly
18:48:01  <FLHerne> Also, "ship depot next to a dock" isn't very unusual
18:53:09  <supermop_Home> andythenorth i used refit any available with cdist all the time
18:54:28  <nielsm> how's this instead?
18:57:08  <nielsm>
18:58:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #156:  Add: News post for 1.10.1
18:59:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #156:  Add: News post for 1.10.1
19:01:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro created new tag: 1.10.1
19:01:13  <LordAro> \o/
19:09:28  <glx> <FLHerne> Also, "ship depot next to a dock" isn't very unusual <-- in details it was ship depot next to a dock and any waypoints
19:10:10  <glx> well and no even chip depot but just tile clearing
19:12:44  <nielsm> hm is this worth fixing? "Sorry about that, we're bringing the old protocol back now, your old tools will now work again."
19:12:50  <nielsm> the two "now" clash a bit
19:17:30  <LordAro> "Sorry about that, we've brought the old protocol back now. Your old tools will work again now (and new tools will be broken again)" ?
19:17:48  <LordAro> doesn't really matter
19:23:12  <nielsm> oh yeah the stickies on tt-forums, the 1.10.0-beta1 thread is still sticky and the 1.10.0 release thread is not
19:23:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #156:  Add: News post for 1.10.1
19:29:02  <andythenorth> supermop_Home how do you clear the spurious links it creates?
19:29:42  <Samu> is 1.10.1 out already?
19:29:44  <Samu> :(
19:29:46  <Samu> :)
19:29:46  <andythenorth> the refit is determined by what's on the station, not what's accepted on the destination
19:30:31  <frosch123> nielsm: noone here is moderator, maybe click the "!" report button?
19:31:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly
19:31:43  <Samu> frosch123, hi
19:32:28  <Samu> sorry, I don't know what's a root cause analysis, but you were right, it was using the wrong diagdirection, but it's only wrong for bridges, which is kinda strange
19:33:23  <Samu> the new fix is cleaner
19:34:59  <nielsm> root cause = the actual real reason something is happening
19:36:43  <andythenorth> sometimes found with 5 whys
19:36:51  <andythenorth>
19:37:00  <nielsm> like taking painkillers to relieve a headache, without figuring out why you got that headache and fixing the reason behind the headache
19:39:00  <supermop_Home> andythenorth stuff usually doesn't show up at a station until something refited to load it does
19:39:51  <andythenorth> occasionally (rarely) I have stations where I pickup cargo for multiple destinations
19:39:52  <supermop_Home> and cdist wont distribute it to a place without a destination
19:40:08  <andythenorth> 'any station'
19:40:20  <andythenorth> it will and it does :)
19:40:30  <andythenorth> I have multiple savegames with the behaviour
19:40:42  <supermop_Home> any station is not really distribution
19:41:00  <supermop_Home> trains seem to pick up distributed cargo first
19:41:01  <andythenorth> no, it just loads it at A, then leaves it on the train at B where it is not accepted
19:41:15  <andythenorth> then back to A, until all trains are full of non-destined cargo :)
19:41:54  <Samu> frosch123, perhaps it doesn't even need to check if it's bridge tile, let me confirm
19:42:25  <supermop_Home> idk usually works for me, any non productive refits generally seem to go away with time
19:42:56  <supermop_Home> maybe you need to bootstrap the links between your intended stations a bit
19:43:30  <supermop_Home> with a few runs with explicitly set refits
19:44:04  <supermop_Home> or a few places along the trains orders where it explicitly does one thing
19:44:51  <supermop_Home> I feel like you often are remaking that x or y about cdist doesn't work at all and it's always puzzled me
19:45:05  <supermop_Home> as I've never really had such problems with it
19:46:11  <supermop_Home> maybe i can dig up a game from  few months ago where i do have widespread autorefiting
19:47:12  <supermop_Home> you can also force links to be strongly persistent with a sort of piglet set up
19:48:11  <supermop_Home> like maybe in addition to 30 huge trains taking ore from x mine to y and z mills, there is also one lonely truck ordered to do that
19:48:47  <supermop_Home> it doesn't even need to drive - it can just sit in the depot with those orderes
19:49:41  <supermop_Home> i usually don't use those, except when bootstapping links i want on complex networks - added benefit is you have some use for cute trucks
19:50:04  <Samu> confirmed!
19:50:15  <Samu> code can be even more simple, brb fixing
19:51:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly
19:56:18  <nielsm> website release time?
19:57:08  <Samu> too bad it didn't make it to 1.10.1 :( I was slow today
19:58:51  <LordAro> nielsm: yup
19:59:05  <LordAro> i was waiting for 1.10.1 to appear on it
20:01:15  <andythenorth> a simple 'delete link' in cdist would do the job
20:01:24  <andythenorth> but it's adding a feature to fix a broken
20:03:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro created new tag: 1.3.7
20:04:03  <andythenorth> supermop_Home do you refit your vehicles when you buy them?
20:05:09  <supermop_Home> usually to what ever they will pick up first
20:06:03  <nielsm> hmm... are the default train engines supposed to expire after 1000+ years or something?
20:06:19  <supermop_Home> sometimes to an assortment, and will let it run a few times before telling it to autorefit
20:06:29  <nielsm> I just joined a 1.10.0 server with no train newgrfs, year 3219, and there are no train engines buildable, it does have wagons tho
20:06:51  <LordAro> nielsm: i believe that's a known "issue"
20:07:05  <LordAro> TTD trains all have an expiry date
20:07:10  <LordAro> but not all wagons do
20:10:25  <nielsm> and that's not fixable because it might break newgrf compat
20:13:28  <LordAro> yup.
20:14:32  <FLHerne> andythenorth: I used to see that years ago, but I haven't for a long time
20:14:58  <andythenorth> I had it every time I tried in recent games
20:15:43  <andythenorth> in one case I solved it by moving the station to remove an industry from catchment
20:16:06  <andythenorth> in the other I refitted consist to exact combination of cargos, and abandoned 'refit any available'
20:16:35  <andythenorth> anyway, arguing in irc is pointless
20:16:51  <andythenorth> I haven't filed an issue because I'm *never* not using unreleased grfs
20:17:06  <andythenorth> and I've always reloaded grfs, which means savegame is ineligible
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20:23:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 updated pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server.
20:25:34  <frosch123> TrueBrain: frontend works mostly with development authentication. it lacks configuration (api url), uploading files, and it disagrees with the api about the editability of "availability"
20:26:08  <TrueBrain> you currently cannot edit availability. I believe it is not even part of the API specs atm?
20:26:22  <TrueBrain> currently latest upload is new-games, all others are savegames-only
20:26:22  <frosch123> yes, that's what i noticed :p
20:26:25  <TrueBrain> :D
20:26:28  <TrueBrain> but nice :D
20:26:50  <TrueBrain> I will give it a look tomorrow, see if I can put it in a docker and on staging
20:26:57  <TrueBrain> maybe that motivates some other peoplle to write some CSS :D
20:27:06  <TrueBrain> and I will check out tus-javascript I guess :)
20:32:11  <frosch123> TrueBrain: oh, and validation of "compatibility" can trigger
20:32:43  <TrueBrain> I need a bit more information :) Like the request that was triggering it or something :)
20:33:37  <frosch123> 'http://localhost:8080/package/game-script/53495659/2016-04-26T20%3A51%3A13%2B00%3A00': {'compatibility': [{'name': 'master', 'conditions': ['>= 1.3.0', '< 1.5.0']}]}
20:35:52  <TrueBrain> ah, I see, yes
20:36:07  <TrueBrain> some as with dependencies, I am sure
20:36:50  <TrueBrain> easy fix, but I will also add a regression-test :)
20:37:04  <TrueBrain> well, not today, but .. tomorrow :)
20:38:03  <TrueBrain> that is the only bug you manage to trigger? Awh :( :P
20:39:15  <frosch123> PUT new-package/token is a bit weird
20:39:26  <frosch123> i think it rejects all data as long as no file is uploaded
20:39:41  <frosch123> but since i can't upload files yet, that may also be a myth
20:40:01  <TrueBrain> no, it doesn't care if you have files or not
20:41:00  <frosch123> ah, nvm, it's again about the "availability"
20:41:07  <TrueBrain> but I see the regression-suite is not validating that, so let me see what happens
20:41:30  <frosch123> is editing of "availability" easy to add, or shall i remove the entries for that?
20:41:48  <TrueBrain> the technical implementation is not that difficult, just the implications are
20:41:50  <TrueBrain> so lets remove it for now
20:42:51  <TrueBrain> I guess the biggest problem to solve there is the OpenTTD client btw :P
20:43:07  <TrueBrain> I wrote it in the wishlist :)
20:44:07  <TrueBrain> that earlier issue you found I fixed for new-package, but not for package :D Silly :P
20:45:18  <debdog> sometimes I wish would mean ctrl-z
20:46:32  <nielsm> again, the oil rig pickle
20:46:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
20:46:53  <nielsm> (and I can't serve them with ships because the world has forgotten how to build ships)
20:47:08  <TrueBrain> frosch123: bug-fixes are now pushed; I have not yet pushed it to staging. Also a job for tomorrow :D
20:48:59  <TrueBrain> frosch123: and can I suggest you look into the click module? It is awesome for argument parsing. Might solve your TODOs around endpoints :D Feel free to look at bananas-frontend-cli how I did that there :)
20:49:20  <TrueBrain> (I am going to need that for AWS anyway, so I can take a look at it too :) )
20:50:01  <frosch123> currently i run it though the flask-runner
20:50:11  <frosch123> that is cool since it autoreloads stuff when files change
20:50:19  <frosch123> but it does not pass parameters through
20:50:29  <TrueBrain> that is ... odd
20:50:34  <TrueBrain> not what you would expect from flask :)
20:51:03  <frosch123> it thinks all parameters are for itself, and reports unknown ones
20:51:28  <TrueBrain> normally applications support --, where everything after is for the application, not for the runner
20:51:34  <TrueBrain> no clue if flask knows about that :P
20:52:04  <frosch123> hmm, now i am unsure whether i tried that :)
20:57:28  <TrueBrain> hmm, I wonder what happens if you make a change and revert it
20:57:34  <TrueBrain> I think it will try to commit an empty commit in that case
20:57:37  <TrueBrain> and fail :P
20:58:05  <frosch123> you consider empty name/version valid?
20:58:15  <frosch123> you only reject None
20:58:18  <TrueBrain> empty name only if the package already exists
20:58:27  <TrueBrain> owh, yes, currently "" is valid
20:58:29  <TrueBrain> for everything
20:58:37  <TrueBrain> guess I should put a min-length on the schema
20:58:56  <frosch123> for edtiing versions "" means info from package
20:59:00  <TrueBrain> it had a max :) Not a min :)
20:59:06  <LordAro> hmm, the new news post hasn't appeared
20:59:27  <LordAro> wait, yes it has
20:59:30  <LordAro> silly caching
20:59:35  <TrueBrain> robert[m]1: you want that, or it is doing that?
20:59:41  <TrueBrain> huh?
20:59:53  <TrueBrain> frosch123: that was meant for you
20:59:57  <TrueBrain> no clue what happened there
21:00:08  <TrueBrain> I would consider it a bug, if "" reverts the value
21:00:18  <frosch123> TrueBrain: the frontend does that
21:00:23  <TrueBrain> ah, yes, HTML
21:00:38  <frosch123> if the api reports "" for, i display
21:00:53  <frosch123> so i also expect that can be set to ""
21:01:03  <TrueBrain> I have to check what happens with "", tbh. I don't know :)
21:01:11  <frosch123> it works so far
21:01:25  <TrueBrain> name should not be set in the dict if you should use
21:01:41  <TrueBrain> and "" should be refused
21:01:49  <TrueBrain> but that gives the question: how to unset it once you set it
21:01:55  <TrueBrain> JSON has null, so I guess
21:03:05  <TrueBrain> weird that I did add "max" to schema validations, but not "min"
21:03:51  <TrueBrain> now I wonder what the to-disk writer does :D
21:04:14  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is going to write an empty string
21:04:20  <TrueBrain> that should not be happening :D
21:04:43  <frosch123> "" is way more convenient than nul for me
21:04:53  <TrueBrain> problem is that they have two different meanings
21:05:02  <TrueBrain> but I understand your point there :)
21:05:18  <TrueBrain> I don't mind if we make "" to: set to package.NNN
21:05:27  <frosch123> i put the package stuff into "placeholder", so "" looks cool in the gui
21:05:32  <TrueBrain> but the API should never return a `name: ""`
21:05:54  <frosch123> yes, GET can skip the entry in the dict, that is fine
21:05:59  <frosch123> i only need "" for PUT
21:06:08  <TrueBrain> it already should; but I am pretty sure it doesn't after you did a PUT of "" :)
21:06:13  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is fine
21:06:25  <TrueBrain> I need to fix some code, but that is easy
21:07:39  <TrueBrain> wrote it down so I won't forget :D
21:08:00  <TrueBrain> and off to bed for me; nn!
21:09:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 updated pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server.
21:09:39  <TrueBrain> Owh, and LordAro, the website has a cache value of 1 hour; so you need a force-reload before it picks up the new version :)
21:09:46  <TrueBrain> Guess that is what you noticed ;)
21:09:59  <LordAro> yeah, could've sworn i did that already
21:10:01  <LordAro> but eh
21:10:20  <frosch123> oh, twitter
21:12:21  <_dp_> is that the smallest diff between openttd releases ever? xD
21:12:55  <glx> hmm I think we did smaller than that
21:13:36  <frosch123> don't mention
21:16:21  <frosch123> i always wonder whether people have set-up auto-retweets, or whether they are staring at their phones all the time
21:18:45  <glx> I do it manually when I remember to do it :)
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22:22:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
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22:58:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
23:16:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
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