Log for #openttd on 16th April 2020:
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00:48:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] agentw4b commented on issue #8088: More than 327 Finnish cities or towns cannot be created.
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00:55:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] agentw4b commented on issue #8088: More than 327 Finnish cities or towns cannot be created.
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06:52:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #8088: More than 327 Finnish cities or towns cannot be created.
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07:51:46  <LordAro> can we not extend the town name lists? these town names are done based on index, right? so adding more shouldn't cause a problem?
08:11:39  <peter1138> No, they are not based on index, it's a random seed.
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09:11:23  <Samu> hi
09:18:05  <Eddi|zuHause> we need a versioning system for town name generators, so we can deprecate/hide some, but keep them available for old savegames, and introduce replacements for new games
09:19:21  <LordAro> mm, i don't see why it shouldn't be relatively easy to remove the old method while maintaining compatibility
09:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i suggest you read up on how town names are generated first
09:20:18  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: there's prefixes and suffixes, and bit ranges, and stuff
09:20:35  <LordAro> true
09:21:42  <Eddi|zuHause> but the core of the problem is that the resulting names are not stored in the savegames
09:22:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so the town name generator must be kept alongside the savegame, to constantly recreate the names from the stored numbers
09:23:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so one approach would be to change that, and translate the numbers into names, then store the actual strings. you still need the original code to load old savegames, though
09:25:55  <LordAro> yeah
09:26:23  <LordAro> but it would mean we could at least safely add new names
09:27:57  <Eddi|zuHause> we would have to make a snapshot of the current town name generators and put them into the saveload conversion code
09:28:11  <Eddi|zuHause> then we could freely modify the town name generators from that point on
09:29:24  <Eddi|zuHause> (negative side effect is that for the ones we don't acutally change, there'll be two identical copies of them)
09:30:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming we won't actually change the system how they are generated, just the data tables
09:34:00  <LordAro> we could just keep the current town name generators, but only run them on map generation
09:34:15  <LordAro> then on load (of new versions), just use the strings
09:34:28  <LordAro> oh, yeah, that wouldn't work
10:20:52  <peter1138> TMWFTLB
10:21:53  <peter1138> However...
10:22:18  <peter1138> Do we store the savegame creation version? (Rather than the current version?)
10:23:24  <peter1138> If so then you can use that to restrict the random ranges, and ensure that additions are added to the end of the list.
10:23:59  <peter1138> You can't change the algos really, but it does maintain compatibility somewhat.
10:24:16  <peter1138> I thinking having to start a new game to get new names is reasonable.
10:27:21  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i think that previous savegame versions are stored in the gamelog, but i don't think there's any code to access that at the places where it would be needed
10:27:57  <Eddi|zuHause> you'd break all sorts of encapsulation if you allowed that
10:29:17  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: not sure what you mean with "end of the list". all possible numbers stored in the savegame are already assigned to names, there's no "free" slots or anything that you could fill up
10:30:52  <Eddi|zuHause> you'd have to "normalize" the stored values first, so all numbers that get mapped to a name, then get remapped to one single number
10:31:24  <Eddi|zuHause> which would achieve the same thing, but would be more complicated, than storing the strings directly
10:32:22  <Eddi|zuHause> and again, we would need to keep snapshots of all previous versions around for recreating that on loading old savegames
10:34:16  <peter1138> Huh?
10:34:35  <peter1138> I mean end the of the list of town name parts
10:34:45  <peter1138> So new games can use all the list
10:35:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand
10:35:08  <peter1138> Old games are restricted to the first X where X is the number of items at the moment.
10:36:06  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not just a simple list, though, it's a weighted list, and adding a new entry might require changing previous weights
10:36:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and if you try to change the prefix/infix/suffix setup, you might have to scrap everything
10:37:09  <Eddi|zuHause> "just add to the end of the list" doesn't get you from 300 towns to 10k towns
10:39:19  <peter1138> It does if you add 10k items to the end of the list :p
10:52:08  <andythenorth> lol :)
10:52:56  <LordAro> just make OTTD do a wikipedia lookup on load
10:52:57  <LordAro> easy.
10:53:28  <LordAro> i'm sure all countries have the same page
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11:36:43  <peter1138>
11:37:11  <peter1138> I wonder if 1.10 will run...
11:38:32  <peter1138> It took a while to load that up, heh
12:07:01  <peter1138> Whew, salad time!
12:22:51  <Samu> hmm, i think the pseudo random number generator of openttd isn't fair
12:23:35  <Samu> maybe i'm mistaken
12:24:11  <peter1138> Randomness isn't fair.
12:24:19  <Samu> okay, it's the local authority denying dock placement
12:24:56  <Samu> i have this AI placing docks on randomly generated tiles
12:25:15  <Samu> it wasn't placing in some obvious places, turns out it's the local authority denying
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12:27:53  <Samu> - that lake just south of Gruningville
12:29:10  <Samu> I'm exhausting the map, trying to see if locks/docks don't block connections
12:31:12  <Samu> i rarely see aqueducts
12:31:32  <Samu> there must be some map configuration that allows for more aqueducts being built
12:31:42  <Samu> i've already set aqueduct max length to 4096
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13:39:38  <Samu> yay aqueducts are finally being  built
13:39:47  <Samu> i needed the right terrain
13:40:21  <Samu> my locks were still blocking rivers :(
13:43:53  <Samu> I'm actually impressed by the number of connections it can create
13:55:54  <Samu> it needed 33 connections to fail one
13:56:27  <Samu> these maps aren't exactly flat
14:03:43  <Samu> question about bananas, how is that Queue.NativeHeap already got 70 downloads? It's not downloadable via Online Content yet. I haven't uploaded the new version of my AI which makes use of it yet
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14:04:33  <supermop_Home_> hi
14:04:55  <Samu> in short, no AI has a dependency for it
14:05:48  <Samu> those downloads seem fake
14:07:00  <supermop_Home_> I guess finish doesn't lend itself as well to making new townnames by combining parts?
14:07:48  <supermop_Home_> i had always noticed it seemed to be be the smallest of the built in town names... but i never really needed more than 300 towns
14:10:32  <peter1138> Oof, this is Debian 3.0 :D
14:18:02  <supermop_Home_> does anyone else find it kind of funny to see requests for other people to fix "The Free Rider Problem" in an game that is made by a group of volunteers and then made freely available to the public?
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14:45:38  <andythenorth> now that you've pointed it out
14:45:50  <andythenorth> bring back the lolz!
14:46:16  <andythenorth> oh supermop has left the building :(
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15:18:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ysangkok opened issue #8089: Byte order CPP definition not defined on FreeBSD
15:23:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8089: Byte order CPP definition not defined on FreeBSD
15:26:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8088: More than 327 Finnish cities or towns cannot be created.
15:26:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8089: Byte order CPP definition not defined on FreeBSD
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15:33:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] dwfreed commented on issue #8089: Byte order CPP definition not defined on FreeBSD
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16:01:18  <nielsm> game of snake:
16:07:43  <Samu> I think my canal pathfinder is finalized at last
16:07:52  <Samu> can't seem to find any more issues
16:08:27  <Samu> no more locks blocking canals
16:08:36  <andythenorth> nielsm that's lolz
16:08:39  <andythenorth> more lolz needed
16:08:57  * andythenorth lost the OpenTTD joy recently, what with all the bureaucracy and stuff
16:09:00  <andythenorth> be nice to get it back
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16:11:15  <Samu> I didn't really test ship depots that extensively though
16:11:30  <Samu> they're also an important piece
16:11:47  <Samu> but the pathfinder doesn't build them actually
16:12:50  <Samu> a route is not complete without a ship depot
16:13:00  <Samu> gotta test this... arf :(
16:13:07  <Samu> so bored
16:18:55  <FLHerne> nielsm: Are those lots of vehicles clipping together for some reason?
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16:19:21  <FLHerne> Or just single, absurdly long ones?
16:19:39  <FLHerne> Oh, I think I see cabs in the middle
16:20:37  <nielsm> just a snake of trams hogging each other's end
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17:18:51  <peter1138> Heh, Minecraft RTX beta release broke MS Insider stuff due to quantity of users...
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17:45:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:45:50  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
17:47:20  <Samu> AI's cannot rename ship depots?
17:48:47  <Samu> damn ship depots are still blocking
17:52:14  <rotterdxm> so i got my first game with really profitable trams
17:52:46  <rotterdxm> may be just me but it seems the trams´ pathfinding is greatly improved since i started using JGR
17:55:08  <glx> Samu: indeed AI/GS can't rename depots
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18:30:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly
18:30:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly
18:31:31  <andythenorth> nice one Samu :)
18:32:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly
18:36:45  <Samu> i thought locks were a headache, turns out ship depots are a bigger one
18:37:55  <andythenorth> nice one frosch123 :D
18:45:28  <_dp_> was ship lost spam not fixed?
18:46:08  <_dp_> or am I just doing it wrong...
18:48:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 commented on pull request #7: Changes to the page header
18:56:21  <glx> _dp_: #8001
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18:59:16  <nielsm> uh could someone remind me of the relationship between FISH and Squid Ate FISH ?
19:00:04  <frosch123> fish -> squid -> fish -> sam
19:00:23  <frosch123> it's like twix and raider
19:01:15  <frosch123> i am not sure whether squid is fish 3 or fish 1.5
19:01:18  <andythenorth> [mistakes] -> Sam
19:01:29  <andythenorth> just pretend the others don't exist
19:01:31  <andythenorth> like FIRS 1
19:01:48  <andythenorth> Sam is not finished though
19:02:31  <Samu> hah, turns out I was using the wrong offset
19:04:19  <Samu> nothing is blocked
19:04:25  <Samu> just the way I like it
19:05:12  <Samu> oh snap, i found a ship depot blocking a dock
19:06:10  <Samu> located at the right corner of the ss
19:06:38  <frosch123> Samu:  <- want to guess what ScriptRail::AreTilesConnected would report :)
19:07:12  <Samu> oh, i dont use rails
19:07:16  <Samu> didn't test it
19:08:11  <Samu> im a bit busy with ship depots blocking docks
19:10:37  <Samu> rails are different if I recall
19:10:42  <Samu> ok, let me check
19:11:48  <nielsm> have I mentioned before the scenario editor needs a forest brush?
19:12:27  <frosch123> i don't think anyone was interesting in SE since smatz
19:12:42  <frosch123> smatz wanted multiplayer-SE to make SE creation more interesting
19:16:11  <frosch123> lol, "apt-get install npm" wants to add 246 new packages
19:16:24  <frosch123> i guess i have no js dev environment
19:17:29  <frosch123> 5MB for 246 packages is also less than usual
19:18:25  <Samu> i'm preparing a savegame with those tiles frosch123 will test soon
19:18:34  <Samu> that rail config
19:38:46  <Samu> weird, AreTilesConnected require 3 tiles?
19:39:18  <Samu> this can't be tested properly
19:39:37  <Samu> "Check if a tile connects two adjacent tiles."
19:39:46  <Samu> but then requires 3 tiles as input
19:50:04  <frosch123> that's because there can be two tracks on one tile, which are not connected themself
19:51:34  <frosch123> to handle 90 degree turns you would probably need even 4 tiles, but i guess that is left to the ai
19:52:21  <Wolf01> <frosch123> i don't think anyone was interesting in SE since smatz <- and me
19:57:20  <Samu> frosch123,
19:57:38  <Samu> the function works different than the other
20:01:05  <frosch123> 1945->2009->2073 is a cool rollercoaster connection
20:01:25  <frosch123> break through a wall and jump a cliff
20:02:54  <frosch123> 2202->2201->2137 is also nice
20:03:18  <frosch123> did i promise too much? :p
20:05:48  <Samu> maybe the function is wrongly named
20:07:05  <Samu> it checks if there is a certain track in the tile, but doesn't check if they are connected to the "from" or the "to"
20:07:43  <Samu> it checks if the track are heading towards those 2 directions
20:10:53  <frosch123> hmm, i see, the documentation actually also does not promise more
20:11:18  <frosch123> so, different to road and water
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20:12:34  <frosch123> but the rail behaviour is still weird if the bridge/tunnel/depot is the middle tile
20:13:36  <frosch123> but i guess that is not avoidable
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20:27:20  * andythenorth hmms
20:27:36  <andythenorth> youtube?
20:35:42  <peter1138> Bed time
20:36:07  <andythenorth> could be
20:40:29  <peter1138> X-Plane time, maybe.
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20:44:50  <frosch123> i installed a package using npm, and the files are dated to 1985
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20:44:58  <frosch123> probably birthday of author?
21:04:10  <andythenorth> doesn't everyone use 1985 as epoch? :P
21:04:22  <andythenorth> quite probably not
21:16:56  <frosch123> hmm, how to insert a config value from python to js?
21:17:26  <frosch123> do i make the js a jinja template? or do i put the value somewhere into the html and read the dom in hs?
21:20:24  <frosch123> apparently the latter
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21:28:54  <andythenorth> the latter
21:29:22  <andythenorth> unless jinja has magic support, escapes can get exciting
21:30:22  * andythenorth reads
21:31:18  <frosch123> i found an example :)
21:31:19  <andythenorth> something something xss risk
21:32:08  <andythenorth> if it's only a few values, data attributes are quite nice, but they don't scale wel
21:32:11  <andythenorth> well *
21:32:26  <frosch123> it's one value :üp
21:33:15  <frosch123> i think i figure out what needs doing, so i can finish this tomorrow
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21:34:20  <frosch123> night
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21:34:50  <andythenorth> also
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