Log for #openttd on 22nd April 2020:
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06:29:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] auge8472 commented on issue #1128: Timetable based auto-separation patch
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06:58:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #98: Change: Use PyPy's StringBuilder to speed up the use of StringIO.
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07:19:54  <andythenorth> o/
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07:23:32  <Xaroth> o7
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07:54:17  <Wolf01> oZ
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08:04:29  * peter1138 mumbles about the price of unbuffered DDR3 ECC :s
08:08:50  <andythenorth> costs more than your eye teeth?
08:11:56  <andythenorth> oof, I forgot to profile nml memory use before and after this
08:12:21  <andythenorth> I never paid much attention, but AIUI frosch though nml used a lot of memory relative to what it should be doing
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08:20:14  <Xaroth> Would be fun to check out
08:20:28  <Xaroth> Also to see how #98 affects memory usage
08:20:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] minexew opened issue #8094: Feature: Map tooltips
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08:26:45  <Xaroth> ^ Neat idea.
08:26:51  <andythenorth_> not sure how to reliably track memory use of a python process
08:34:54  <Xaroth> mprof seems to do something
08:35:13  <Eddi|zuHause> try to compile one-file-CETS and see if it still explodes?
08:44:01  <planetmaker> @LordAro, aye, I shall see that I can get that API key done. If not done by end of week, please remind me again.
08:49:14  <Xaroth> andythenorth_ I can check a bit of it with mprof
08:49:20  <Xaroth> running some comparisons between python versions atm
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08:50:51  <hythlodaeus> henlo
08:56:41  <LordAro> planetmaker: sorry, out of date now - i added openttd user to the nml package and TB added the key
08:57:11  <planetmaker> a new user or additional login?
08:57:33  <planetmaker> or rather: will there now be 2 nml or not?
08:58:04  <LordAro> still just the one nml
08:58:15  <LordAro> just added a new "openttd" user as an owner of the package
08:58:29  <Xaroth> andythenorth_:
08:58:53  <planetmaker> ok... I don't get it. There's two e-mails registered to the pypi account...? But not an openttd one?
09:00:46  <planetmaker> ah, ok... now I do :) nvm. Yes, that's a good solution
09:10:08  <andythenorth_> Xaroth thanks :)  there are clearly changes from the context manager, but I'm not sure they tell us much :)
09:14:04  <Xaroth> They all are within the white noise region
09:14:08  <Xaroth> but no strong changes, which is good
09:32:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] minexew commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
09:42:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
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10:40:01  <peter1138> I opened that link but the last comment is from 2019...
10:40:42  <LordAro> is github still having issues?
10:40:51  <LordAro> i got some emails with the text in it...
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11:36:34  <nielsm> those comments are on a random line of code
11:37:01  <nielsm> so they are appended to a review thread github by default collapses
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12:17:12  <hythlodaeus> guys,one question, do you know which font OpenTTD is loading by default in this screenshot?
12:17:52  <hythlodaeus> i think this is one of the default linux fonts, but i'm not sure
12:28:30  <nielsm> that looks like the bitmap font in opengfx
12:30:26  <hythlodaeus> it's a bitmap? not a truetype?
12:30:42  <nielsm> yes
12:30:58  <nielsm> the baseset graphics for ottd (and the original game) contain a bitmap font
12:31:11  <hythlodaeus> i see
12:31:48  <nielsm>
12:32:03  <hythlodaeus> hum, if it's part of the base graphs there might be trouble. I was wondering if you guys would be interested in having that font expanded to include russian/greek/hebrew characters
12:32:40  <hythlodaeus> so it wouldn't have to go and fish those fromother system fonts
12:33:57  <nielsm> I think if you are not using truetype fonts in your configuration, but select a game translation that requires characters not in the bitmap font, it automatically switches to some random truetype font
12:34:12  <hythlodaeus> yeah that's what i'm saying
12:34:32  <hythlodaeus> so my proposal here is to expand the amount of characters on this bitmap font
12:34:36  <nielsm> and that's *all* text that gets switched
12:34:59  <hythlodaeus> because it's something that's very easy to do and I've done myself for other games in the past
12:35:32  <hythlodaeus> so it would make this font also compatible with greek/russian/hebrew
12:35:53  <nielsm> I have personally toyed with the idea of having a good default TTF ship with ottd, which also contains vector versions of the various text-icons (like train, bus, etc. symbols)
12:36:13  <hythlodaeus> well, i might also be able to arrange for that
12:36:33  <hythlodaeus> although not myself doing that personally. I know a couple of font designers
12:37:03  <hythlodaeus> and I also have an idea of a ready-made font we could use as a starting base
12:38:30  <nielsm> those icons always use the sprite font even with a vector font selected, and it doesn't look great:
12:38:41  <nielsm> at 2x or 4x GUI scale
12:38:51  <nielsm> actually font scale
12:39:07  <hythlodaeus> the latest version of apple's Chicago is technically public domain
12:39:27  <hythlodaeus> we could use it and upgrade it with additional chars.
12:41:01  <hythlodaeus> but how would you feel if I were to upgrade the mono bitmap with additional characters?
12:41:26  <hythlodaeus> would it disrupt compatibility with original TTD graphics?
12:41:42  <nielsm> there are some issues in that every baseset needs to ship at font, and there are several basesets
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12:42:08  <nielsm> original baseset will need an extension grf with the extra sprites
12:42:24  <nielsm> those can possibly also be used for fallback for other basesets that haven't been extended with it yet
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12:42:57  <nielsm> oh...
12:43:06  <nielsm> yeah there's just that newgrf action for it actually
12:43:26  <nielsm> so basesets can add glyphs for any characters, and there doesn't have to be any parity between them
12:44:07  <hythlodaeus> so it would require the creation of a newGRF basically
12:44:17  <nielsm> yes
12:44:26  <hythlodaeus> well that's not so bad
12:44:32  <nielsm> that's how it already works
12:45:05  <hythlodaeus> i might expand the mono bitmap then
12:45:16  <nielsm> remember there's four bitmap fonts
12:45:28  <nielsm> normal, small, large (serif), and monospace
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12:46:28  <supermop_Home_> hi
12:46:36  <hythlodaeus> what are large and monospace used for?
12:46:42  <nielsm> large is newspapers
12:46:48  <nielsm> monospace is displaying readme files
12:52:42  <hythlodaeus> I see
12:53:19  <hythlodaeus> Yeah I think I should be able to do it
12:53:51  <hythlodaeus> if you'd like a truetype I can arrange someone to work on it too, like i mentioned
12:57:09  <nielsm> some well-hinted truetype glyphs of the various icons would be really great to have IMO
12:57:19  <nielsm> so yes please :)
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12:59:33  <hythlodaeus> for the glyphs we should be able to fish compatible dingbats from freefonts
12:59:52  <hythlodaeus> unless you really want custom dingbats but
13:00:24  <hythlodaeus> there should be plenty of freely licensed dingbats picturing trains, boats and plains
13:04:10  <hythlodaeus> curious now, are we loading the glyphs as plain pictures or as UTF-8 dingbats?
13:06:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] minexew commented on pull request #7664: Extended heightmap support
13:17:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ZornsLemma commented on pull request #7664: Extended heightmap support
13:17:03  <hythlodaeus> 🚆🚂⛴🚌 testing
13:17:16  <hythlodaeus> hmm they show up as emojis in my browser
13:17:49  <hythlodaeus> but if I type these unicode symbols in my notepad they have chars of their own
13:18:07  <hythlodaeus> meaning there's free fonts we can easily load these from
13:22:39  <LordAro> those sentences don't quite make sense
13:23:06  <LordAro> "they show up as emojis in my browser" "if I type these unicode symbols in my notepad they have chars of their own"
13:23:09  <LordAro> well... yes
13:23:11  <LordAro> that's what emojis are
13:40:00  <supermop_Home_> hopefully the chars are somewhat similar, and not like train = high heeled shoe
13:42:05  <supermop_Home_> though i'd be down with being able to name my company *minidisc*
13:42:41  <supermop_Home_> I wonder if my minidisc Walkman still works
13:51:41  <Samu> I think I managed a breakthrough on my canal pathfinder! Now takes half the time to pathfind. turns out _GetDirection callback plays an important role
13:52:17  <Samu> there were many directions, causing "collisions" to happen much less frequently (ie more paths to search)
13:52:25  <Samu> I reduced the number of directions
13:53:07  <Samu> now I'm checking if this is fine, or if it breaks something
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15:12:15  <hythlodaeus> LordAro: what I mean is whether the current font in the browser displays them as emojis or as color emojis or as dingbats
15:16:07  <hythlodaeus> where can i find the small font file exactly
15:18:40  <hythlodaeus> along with monospace
15:23:06  <nielsm> the (western european) small font is part of the base-baseset, along with the large font, the monospace font is entirely an ottd extension
15:23:39  <nielsm> though mono and the existing (minor) character set extensions are also part of the baseset, just as extensions so to say
15:29:36  <planetmaker> hythlodaeus, get OpenGFX source and look at it. It is reasonably documented
15:30:01  <hythlodaeus> I am looking at it ahah
15:30:09  <planetmaker> some grep on the source files should reveal mono, small, big and normal font sprites and locations
15:30:31  <planetmaker> (maybe it's called large and not big... not sure. There might also be tiny)
15:31:24  <nielsm> they seem to be somewhat mixed and split between files
15:31:48  <planetmaker> yes. There's a base set of glyphs which TTD already had. And all other glyphs are in the extra file
15:32:22  <planetmaker> Especially those which accomodate non-English, but latin-script languages with unusual characters with accents etc
15:32:25  <hythlodaeus> you guys made monospace and large from liberation mono and liberation serif repectively right? at least the readme confirms that abot monospace
15:33:56  <planetmaker> if the readme/docs say so... it probably is right then :)
15:34:19  <planetmaker> dunno who actualy made the glyphs. Zephyris?
15:35:07  <hythlodaeus> i was just wondering which process you guys used so i could replicate it for additional characters
15:35:43  <hythlodaeus> bc liberation mono/serif has additional alphabets too
15:36:28  <planetmaker> My best guess is: look at the source/docs who actually made the glyphs and ask that guy/gal
15:36:37  <planetmaker> If he is still around :|
15:36:42  <planetmaker> it's 10 years ago
15:55:41  <Wolf01> Bad day is bad... headache for the entire day
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16:12:27  <FLHerne> Xaroth:
16:12:38  <FLHerne> > Improve performance of io.StringIO(). It should now be faster than CPython in common use cases.
16:12:53  <FLHerne> I think they might have just made your patch redundant :P
16:13:48  <FLHerne> (testing with 7.3.1 on Linux, I can't measure a difference between the current code and the patched version)
16:13:56  <FLHerne> Retrying again in case I screwed it up
16:16:29  <FLHerne> Nope, still no difference, without your patch is as good as either patch was before
16:16:40  <FLHerne> Odd, though, wasn't andy using 7.3?
16:21:25  <LordAro> 7.2, i thought?
16:21:30  <LordAro> unless that was you
16:21:39  <FLHerne> He says 7.3 in the github comment
16:22:33  <FLHerne> Hm, I'm really confused by pypy's changelog
16:22:58  <FLHerne> That's in the "7.3.0+" section, which is separate from both "7.3.0" and "7.3.1+"
16:23:04  <FLHerne> I have 7.3.1
16:23:16  <LordAro> to the git history!
16:28:42  <FLHerne> Yes, it's merged between 7.3.0 and 7.3.1
16:33:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #98: Change: Use PyPy's StringBuilder to speed up the use of StringIO.
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17:27:35  <Xaroth> nothing we can't fix with a version check I guess
17:32:32  <FLHerne> I mean, it re-raises the question of how much we need it
17:32:50  <FLHerne> If anyone who cares can just use up-to-date PyPy
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17:34:02  <FLHerne> My other concern was whether someone might try to use the file in some other way
17:34:14  <andythenorth_> I'm on 7.3.0
17:34:20  <FLHerne> In which case calling it `StringIO` might be misleading, because it really isn't
17:34:26  <andythenorth_> I read 7.3.1 changelog last night, but didn't upgrade, got too late :)
17:35:05  <Xaroth> We mimic the StringIO interface though
17:35:20  <andythenorth_> is this a 'move on, nothing to see', or is there a worthwhile change?
17:35:31  <Xaroth> 7.3.1 fixes the io.StringIO issue
17:36:26  <Xaroth> so the PR could be closed completely, or adapted to work with < 7.3.1
17:36:32  <Xaroth> your call, andythenorth_
17:36:54  <andythenorth_> we don't need to support older pypy, it's  fast moving target
17:37:06  <Xaroth> then you can close the PR :)
17:37:13  <andythenorth_> let's fix other things :)
17:37:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #98: Change: Use PyPy's StringBuilder to speed up the use of StringIO.
17:37:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth closed pull request #98: Change: Use PyPy's StringBuilder to speed up the use of StringIO.
17:37:53  <FLHerne> Xaroth: StringIO inherits from TextIOBase, so it has quite a large interface; I don't think StreamBuffer or your patch implements most of it?
17:38:08  <Xaroth> only the important bits :P
17:38:13  <Xaroth> writing to it, and getting its value
17:38:18  <FLHerne> To be fair, binary output uses `array.array`, which is also not really a file
17:39:43  <FLHerne> Xaroth: The problem I'm envisioning is when in a couple of years someone uses some other part of the API, and doesn't realize that the "StringIO" might not be that
17:40:26  <FLHerne> And of course most people don't test on PyPy, so it would stay broken for a while
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17:40:59  <Xaroth> It's a moot point now :)
17:41:05  <FLHerne> i.e. if we did have that patch, `util.StringIO` should be called something else
17:41:09  <FLHerne> But yeah, that :P
17:43:49  <andythenorth_> do we know if nml has any alpha/beta/rc release steps?
17:44:04  <andythenorth_> looks to me like I only need to write some docs before we can tag a version
17:47:12  <frosch123> just changelog
17:49:07  <andythenorth_> thanks
18:07:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on issue #76: nfo output is slow with pypy
18:07:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne closed issue #76: nfo output is slow with pypy
18:09:08  <TrueBrain> frosch123: <- would you mind giving that a review? :D
18:09:40  <frosch123> will do
18:09:43  <TrueBrain> and if you have a better name
18:09:51  <TrueBrain> not sure "ape" would make a good PyPi package
18:10:09  <TrueBrain> tnx :)
18:10:31  <frosch123> if you want to put it on pypi, it should probably include "openttd" in the name
18:10:42  <TrueBrain> openttd-ape
18:10:43  <TrueBrain> ?
18:10:57  <frosch123> openttd-bananas-client-cli
18:11:07  <frosch123> pretty long :p
18:11:10  <TrueBrain> yes :D
18:11:39  <frosch123> openttd-bananas-client
18:11:53  <TrueBrain> guess that is fine
18:12:04  <TrueBrain> was hoping on some creative thoughts :P
18:12:30  <frosch123> in our bubble we can name stuff crazy, but on pypi people need to be able to find it
18:12:37  <TrueBrain> fair
18:12:44  <TrueBrain> openttd-bananas-cli I guess works for that
18:13:10  <TrueBrain> but in that case I guess it is best to rename "ape" to "bananas-cli" too
18:15:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API
18:15:30  <TrueBrain> there we go :)
18:15:40  <TrueBrain> only the client-id is now "ape"
18:15:41  <TrueBrain> :D
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18:27:10  <andythenorth_> hmm
18:27:28  <andythenorth_> bananas, FIRS, nml, or SEO?
18:27:37  <andythenorth_> SEO is like actual work I have to do that I haven't done
18:29:54  <frosch123> do all 4, switching tasks every 30s ?
18:30:12  <andythenorth_> that works pretty well most of the time
18:30:20  <andythenorth_> never causes mistakes ;P
18:32:59  <Wolf01> andythenorth_ mudrail
18:34:46  <andythenorth_> happy days
18:36:43  <andythenorth_> oof
18:37:00  <andythenorth_> interfaces that load data into tables over xhr
18:37:01  <FLHerne> andythenorth_: I had a vague idea for nml
18:37:09  <andythenorth_> with aggressive caching
18:37:16  <andythenorth_> in a new release that often sets all the values to '0'
18:37:23  * andythenorth_ has told the vendor :P
18:37:41  <andythenorth_> FLHerne ?? :)
18:37:54  <andythenorth_> I guess I'm not doing SEO then
18:38:35  <andythenorth_> I'm really not in the mood for writing 311 meta descriptions anyway :)
18:41:46  <FLHerne> No, it was a bad idea
18:43:51  <andythenorth_> rewrite in perl?
18:47:45  <FLHerne> No, you want JS for a rewrite
18:48:14  <FLHerne> Ridiculously optimized JIT compilers, and you can run it in a browser
18:49:57  <andythenorth_> wasm?
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18:58:28  <FLHerne> I guess
18:58:42  <FLHerne> Rust or somethin
19:02:21  <andythenorth_> LordAro looks about right?? (or I can make a PR also)
19:02:33  <andythenorth_> I haven't mentioned pypi yet, I don't know the process for that
19:03:11  <andythenorth_> oh the credits are a bit lolcats also :)
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19:12:08  <LordAro> andythenorth_: more or less fine
19:13:15  <andythenorth_> I'll PR
19:13:37  <andythenorth_> someone else can sort credits out, I find creds weird and I delete them from most places I find them :)
19:13:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth opened pull request #99: Readme release instructions
19:16:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on issue #42: Document how to release nmlc, including building a windows binary
19:19:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] frosch123 commented on pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API
19:24:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] frosch123 commented on pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API
19:25:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API
19:27:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] frosch123 commented on pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API
19:27:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API
19:27:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain commented on pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API
19:28:14  <TrueBrain> tnx a lot frosch123  :)
19:29:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] frosch123 approved pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API
19:30:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain merged pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API
19:30:26  <TrueBrain> so ... basics done
19:30:33  <TrueBrain> bit of infrastructure .. lot of testing .. CSS
19:30:38  <TrueBrain> I can control the first two, not the latter ..
19:30:49  <LordAro> andythenorth_: yeah, definitely out of date since the github migration, if nothing else
19:30:51  <TrueBrain> but nice work frosch123  :D This is getting somewhere :)
19:31:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] frosch123 opened issue #2: Add --browser option
19:32:37  <TrueBrain> nice idea frosch123  :)
19:36:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] frosch123 opened issue #3: Improve reporting on user errors
19:37:50  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i wondered about adding a tiling background image with some bananas
19:38:14  <TrueBrain> I would accept that PR :)
19:39:17  <frosch123> really? what about a gif with a rotating banana?
19:39:32  <TrueBrain> you can't do that in a CLI :P
19:40:01  <frosch123> the login success page can show it
19:40:34  * andythenorth_ needs to find the flask 'reload templates' parameter :P
19:42:06  <frosch123> for me it does that by default
19:42:25  <frosch123> or does it need the debug option
19:42:36  <frosch123> try "make debug" or "make run", not sure which version
19:42:46  <frosch123> one of them sets a env var
19:46:02  <andythenorth_> make debug works nicely
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19:48:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] frosch123 opened issue #4: Display command help text without authentication
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20:10:41  <andythenorth_> anybody know how the html5 sectioning stuff works?
20:10:50  <andythenorth_> the docs on MDN are self contradictory
20:11:04  <andythenorth_> it seems weird to be setting semantics for something no browsers use
20:11:41  <frosch123> it's probably for blind people
20:11:48  <andythenorth_> no it's for semantics nerds
20:11:57  <andythenorth_> I doubt the AT implements it
20:12:37  <andythenorth_> are we supporting older IE?  Like 7 or so?
20:12:39  <frosch123> troll them and use footer at top and header at bottom?
20:12:42  <andythenorth_> it will need polyfills
20:12:57  <andythenorth_> frosch123 that's actually valid, if it's semantically correct
20:13:09  <andythenorth_> the weird world of html
20:13:33  <frosch123> andythenorth_: ottd barely supports win xp, no idea how old ie7 is
20:13:55  <andythenorth_> oh it's mac crash time I think
20:14:01  <andythenorth_> if I disappear, it died
20:14:13  <nielsm> maybe you can run ie7 on vista
20:14:26  <andythenorth_> apple impose a crash every 13-15 days
20:14:34  <andythenorth_> I think it's to keep system logs short
20:14:37  <nielsm> don't bother supporting anything older than IE11
20:14:42  <andythenorth_> hurrah
20:29:56  <Eddi|zuHause> ie7 sounds newer than winXP
20:31:25  <nielsm> XP shipped with 6 iirc
20:31:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i was thinking IE 5.5 initially
20:31:58  <nielsm> maybe it did...
20:32:32  <andythenorth_> I remember 5 launching on the mac
20:32:40  <andythenorth_> the fastest, most standards compliant browser ever
20:32:43  <andythenorth_> it even was
20:32:47  <andythenorth_> :o
20:32:57  <andythenorth_> different days
20:42:16  <nielsm> yea there was a period where IE was actually genuinely the best browser
20:43:27  <nielsm> (it was while netscape was stuck on the v 4.x tech and slowly retooling the browser into mozilla)
20:49:26  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: yes, and then IE was stuck on 6 for a decade
20:50:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol opened issue #8095: Feature suggestion: option to automatically space out vehicles in a shared order
20:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause> which is how mozilla made a comeback
20:51:30  <LordAro> what's with the sudden surge in people wanting actually working timetable separation?
20:52:58  <Eddi|zuHause> what? they've been wanting that for like 15 years now
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20:52:59  <_dp_> LordAro, social distancing in openttd
20:53:27  <FLHerne> I imagine social distancing probably has something to do with it :P
20:54:19  <Eddi|zuHause> social timetable distancing?
20:54:21  <FLHerne> Lots of people stuck at home with nothing to do but play TTD
20:54:53  <FLHerne> "I have an algorithm worked out and have been poking around the code" is promising
20:55:53  <FLHerne> What's the problem with the version JGR has? The way it's prone to cascade jam-ups?
20:56:49  <andythenorth_> frosch123 that marquee though :D
20:57:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what JGR has, but separation patches used to have a problem that there were two competing settings that were difficult to set up right
20:58:03  <frosch123> andythenorth_: it was not mentioned today yet...
20:59:58  <andythenorth_> LordAro nml release tomorrow then? o_O
21:00:07  <LordAro> andythenorth_: feasible
21:01:31  <andythenorth_>
21:01:34  <andythenorth_> that happened
21:15:43  <TrueBrain> andythenorth_: why are you doing the CSS now? :P
21:16:14  <frosch123> surely because of the marquee
21:16:43  <andythenorth_> because of the marquee
21:17:15  <TrueBrain> lol
21:17:28  <andythenorth_> I was surprised marquee worked in my browser
21:18:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8094: Feature: Map tooltips
21:19:23  <frosch123> night
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21:20:41  <andythenorth_> also
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21:42:07  <Samu> i discovered a very very funny bug
21:43:20  <Samu> it's about my canal pathfinder. map size is 256 x 256, mad bridge length is 4096.
21:44:16  <Samu> it tries to find a bridge from tile 16258, going in X axis
21:44:25  <Samu> so 16259, 16260
21:44:28  <Samu> etc..
21:44:41  <Samu> turns out, after +256
21:44:55  <Samu> it's at tile 16515
21:45:27  <Samu> which is allowed to make a bridge, but 16259 to 16515 is going in axis Y direction1
21:45:42  <Samu> I was only looking for a bridge in X axis
21:45:47  <Samu> very funny bug
21:47:24  <Samu> i know how to fix this, just got no time atm, will do it tomorrow
21:47:29  <Samu> cyas
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21:50:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne opened issue #100: Development version format is "invalid" to setuptools.
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22:14:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on issue #8094: Feature: Map tooltips
22:23:27  <hythlodaeus> so what will be the main changes to bananas? kinda curios about it?
22:26:19  <FLHerne> Aaagh
22:26:23  <FLHerne> "open windows on hover"
22:27:06  <FLHerne> That idea should be an instant GitHub ban :P
22:27:42  <glx> yeah that's silly
22:28:04  <hythlodaeus> I'd rather have that than tooltips for map objects
22:28:24  <FLHerne> I quite like the look of those tooltips
22:28:28  <glx> anyway the tooltips won't be able to display industries with 16 in/out
22:28:46  <FLHerne> But industries with 16 in/out are stupid, don't exist and never will
22:29:25  <FLHerne> They make no sense either in gaameplay or as part of an industry chain
22:29:52  <glx> oh even with less in/out, the limit is the number of arguments for the tooltip
22:30:00  <FLHerne> (and andythenorth isn't here, so he won't see this and do it out of spite :P)
22:30:03  <glx> and it's not easy to change
22:31:35  <hythlodaeus> It's just a redundant idea in the end. there's no pointi n havint to wait x-amount of miliseconds to open an object tooltip when you can just click on it and see the same info
22:32:31  *** hythlodaeus is now known as mcbanhas
22:32:34  <FLHerne> hythlodaeus: But then you have to close it again
22:32:44  <mcbanhas> so what
22:33:09  <FLHerne> Clicking those tiny window-close buttons with a trackpad is a pain, and takes >> 250ms
22:33:18  <mcbanhas> press delete
22:33:34  <FLHerne> That closes all the windows
22:33:46  <FLHerne> (except pinned)
22:33:53  <mcbanhas> yeah i do that mostly :p
22:34:04  <FLHerne> And interrupts building stuff, IIRC?
22:34:15  <mcbanhas> interrupts what?
22:34:35  <FLHerne> Yes, because it closes the infra toolbar unless you have that pinned
22:35:01  <FLHerne> Normally, the time you want information about something is when you're building stuff near it
22:35:18  <FLHerne> So you have a building toolbar open, and probably a tool active
22:36:05  <FLHerne> Pressing 'delete' interrupts that, unless you've pinned the toolbar
22:36:33  <FLHerne> And toolbars are unpinned each time you switch to a different one, so you haven't pinned the toolbar
22:37:18  <mcbanhas> just close the object window manually then. no god danged tooltips on object maps repeating info
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22:41:38  <FLHerne> By that logic, most of the tooltips tell you about things you'd know if you clicked on them
22:41:58  <mcbanhas> hmm, I've changed my mind actually
22:42:42  <mcbanhas> Civ uses tooltips on map objects and it doesn't look half bad
22:44:04  <mcbanhas> and yeah i guess it would be useful to get info on map industries while placing stations and such
22:46:30  <FLHerne> I can sort of see the semantic argument against
22:47:16  <FLHerne> Elsewhere in the UI, tooltips tell you what clicking on something *does*, not a summary of the information it would contain
22:48:09  <mcbanhas> that's sort of what I meant with repeating info. Because you would have the info in the tooltip and in the window if you were to open it
22:48:13  <FLHerne> But having played OTTD for years, I'm pretty sure they're worth having
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