Log for #openttd on 2nd May 2020:
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06:24:51  <andythenorth> o/
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07:30:55  <Wolf01> andythenorth: you must buy this one for your wife... btw, wrong model choice in that image
07:33:16  <andythenorth> isn't it
07:33:47  <Wolf01> Does he have a husband?
07:37:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman approved pull request #115: Fix #112: prevent regeneration for source package
07:38:52  <Wolf01> andythenorth: I think you might appreciate this one (this month on humble choices)
07:39:57  <andythenorth> I like the art style
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08:01:05  <Flygon> Well, this's annoying.
08:01:23  <Flygon> I have a train that doesn't want to route to a station that it has a clear route to.
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08:05:13  <Wolf01> Missing catenary somewhere?
08:05:20  <Flygon> I don't think so.
08:05:25  <Flygon> If I force it to skip a waypoint.
08:05:31  <Flygon> It WILL go to the platforms I want it to go to.
08:05:37  <Wolf01> We need an overlay which activates with the convert tool
08:05:47  <Flygon> So I think something involving waypoint routing is going weird.
08:06:04  <Wolf01> Highlights in red the tracks of a different type
08:06:18  <Wolf01> And yellow the different but compatible ones
08:10:27  <Flygon> If the issue happens again, I'll take screenshots.
08:10:39  <Flygon> I can probably try and work around it anyway.
08:14:18  <Flygon> Okay so.
08:14:28  <Flygon> I solved the issue by. Not solving it. It's a pathfinding bug.
08:14:38  <Flygon> I just made all the waypoints to the platforms the same distance apart.
08:14:49  <Flygon> Rather than some being 4 tiles away, and others being 14 tiles away.
08:15:10  <Flygon> Also I just realized that since this is the jgrpp, this is probably the wrong channel to muse. :D
08:15:41  <Flygon> Sorry for the mess!
08:16:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #8093: Regular server desynchronisations from clients
08:35:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain commented on pull request #115: Fix #112: prevent regeneration for source package
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08:44:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #115: Fix #112: prevent regeneration for source package
09:44:18  <Samu> need a bit of help commenting this function
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10:48:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andrem0 opened pull request #8106: Update norwegian_bokmal.txt plural fix
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12:40:24  <andythenorth> quiet eh
12:42:32  <andythenorth> was nml released? :)
12:51:40  <glx> not yet, I need to rework #115
13:14:05  <FLHerne> glx: I'm not sure 115 is the right fix?
13:14:48  <FLHerne> glx: If I understand correctly, the problem is that the unpacked nml source is inside a different git repo
13:15:24  <FLHerne> In which case isn't the right fix to check whether the root of the current git repo is where it's expected to be, and abort otherwise?
13:17:08  <FLHerne> blathijs: Is my understanding ^ of 112 correct? ;-)
13:17:30  <glx> it's hard to check if it's a nml repo I think
13:23:11  <TrueBrain> I really would suggest not going to route :)
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13:23:51  <supermop_Home_> andythenorth I need some of that better living over here
13:24:20  <TrueBrain> normally, what you want, after packaging a tarball, that any git-info is removed
13:24:23  <TrueBrain> so no .git folder nothing
13:24:29  <TrueBrain> and that is the moment you want to use a pre-defined version
13:24:54  <TrueBrain> so still doing any form of VCS detection after someone unpacks a tarball, is asking for a bit of trouble, one way or the other
13:26:02  <glx> I think my idea to add the "release=" line is ok, just the way to set the value is wrong
13:26:53  <TrueBrain> not sure; I think hooking into the 'build' command is the more clean way, but in the end, I personally don't really care :) Just as long as you document your choice ;) And if possible, don't like it to GitHub Actions :)
13:28:49  <TrueBrain> as, lets face it, we are going to have this wrong a few more times anyway :P Pretty sure we will find an edge case with the OpenTTD system one of these days too :D
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14:15:51  <Samu> I need a pathfinder expert. What is "estimate_multiplier" supposed to do? I just implemented it on the pathfinder and it magically became fast!
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14:21:12  <Samu_> ah, so this is where it came from...
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14:48:06  <Samu> this estimate multiplier is absolutely magic!
14:48:25  <Samu> takes 52 days only to pathfind from 1,1 to 4094,4094
14:48:31  <Samu> super fast
14:48:56  <nielsm> yes it's going to be faster when it makes assumptions and guesswork and doesn't try to be perfect
14:50:08  <Samu> took a year to actually build the canals
14:50:17  <Samu> much longer than pathfinding
14:50:54  <nielsm> yeah you probably can't assume the found path remains valid for that time
14:52:45  <Samu> yexo is a genius
14:54:20  <nielsm> what might be a better idea is maybe make a very rough estimate path as a guide, then make more exact sub-paths along the route while constructing
14:57:41  <Samu> got a crash, wondering if it also crashes in 1.10.1
15:05:17  <Samu> crashed in 1.10.1 too
15:06:38  <Samu> openttd.exe!SQInstance::Release() Line 145
15:06:38  <Samu> 	at d:\a\s\srcrdparty\squirrel\squirrel\sqclass.h(145)
15:07:04  <Samu> this->~SQInstance();
15:07:14  <Samu> looks like path was too long?
15:09:05  <Samu> no crash log files generated :(
15:09:36  <glx> for me it's the usual memory crash
15:10:29  <Samu> it didn't use much memory at all
15:10:59  <Samu> gonna try on a 2048x4096 map
15:13:13  <Samu> i no longer have the pathfinder caching
15:13:19  <Samu> it's memory light now
15:21:13  <Samu> no crash at this size
15:21:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andrem0 closed pull request #8106: Change norwegian_bokmal.txt plural fix
15:22:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andrem0 reopened pull request #8106: Change norwegian_bokmal.txt plural fix
15:23:43  <michi_cc> Samu:*_search_algorithm#Bounded_relaxation
15:27:21  <Samu> that jargon makes it too complicated for my head
15:31:44  <michi_cc> Samu: If you compare that animation with the one from the earlier example sections, the difference is quite visible.
15:32:53  <Samu> ah, so that's what estimated multiplier do?
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15:36:11  <FLHerne> Does anyone actually use the "line directive" support in nml?
15:38:03  <FLHerne> Removing it, and LinePosition in favour of just integers, reduces memory usage and parse time by 10% each
15:39:48  <andythenorth> what does it do?
15:40:57  <frosch123> FLHerne: yes, all pnml projects do
15:42:01  <frosch123> 5 years ago, i would have said that's the majority of projects, no idea today
15:42:06  <frosch123> opengfx certainly is
15:43:21  <FLHerne> Ok
15:43:57  <frosch123> ofc, it's only used when there is something wrong :)
15:44:36  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Allows nml to tell you the correct original source file and line, even when they've been munged together
15:45:16  <FLHerne> Using __slots__ on Position and its subclasses reduces total memory usage by ~5%, with no change to compile time
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15:54:59  <erikandre> Would there be a deb package for ubuntu 20.04 (LTS) with 1.10.1 ?
15:55:05  <frosch123> things start to get confusing... two people making similar newgrf sets have similar openttd/github names :)
15:55:29  <erikandre> Ive tried to install openttd with the apt-get tool. but there is only 1.9.3 (and my friend that host gameplay is on 1.10.1
15:56:36  <LordAro> erikandre: we could (theoretically) make a deb file for 1.10.1, but it's not up to us to get things into the official apt repos
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15:56:46  <frosch123> <- there are .deb
15:56:48  <LordAro> they're usually frozen anyway
15:56:55  <frosch123> the official debian 1.10.1 will take another week or so
15:58:25  <erikandre> I thought that the deb file for 18.04 was gonna be possible to install on 20.04 LTS also
15:58:36  <erikandre> but of course i was wrong.
15:58:57  <LordAro> yeah, we probably need to add 20.04 to our release process now
15:59:05  <LordAro> but it wasn't released when 1.10.1 was :p
15:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> no, those versions were never compatible with each other
16:00:40  <erikandre> its complaining about a Dependency is not satisfiable: libicu60 (>= 60.1-1~)
16:01:07  <LordAro> yeah, icu is always the incompatible one
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16:02:46  <erikandre> could it be possible, to ask you very kindly for a 1.10.1 deb file ? ;)
16:02:48  <andythenorth> FLHerne oh so it's the feature that tells me the error is in the wrong place?
16:02:53  <andythenorth> I hate that feature
16:03:03  <andythenorth> I always wondered why it was broken
16:03:05  <FLHerne> andythenorth: ?
16:03:37  <andythenorth> nmlc often gives me useless filenames and line numbers for parse errors
16:03:47  <andythenorth> as though it's working with a CPP includes compile
16:04:27  <FLHerne> If you're not using `# line [blah] or `# <number> <filename> [blah]` in your source, it does nothing
16:04:53  <andythenorth> ok so I might be conflating it with something else
16:04:55  <FLHerne> #line, rater
16:05:11  <andythenorth> why would anyone number source in nml?
16:05:14  * andythenorth confused
16:05:37  <FLHerne> " useless filenames and line numbers for parse errors" sounds like you're triggering it by accident somehow
16:05:51  <andythenorth> I haven't seen it for a while
16:06:27  <andythenorth> I removed all the CPP #include stuff, might not have seen it since then
16:06:35  <FLHerne> You don't have any such directives in current FIRS/Horse
16:06:38  <andythenorth> no
16:06:40  <andythenorth> pure python
16:06:52  <FLHerne> "CPP #include stuff" would do that
16:06:55  <andythenorth> right
16:07:04  <Wolf01> Oh, finally a modded bus/tram station in transport fever 2
16:07:08  <FLHerne> Because the CPP generates those directives when it does includes
16:07:11  <andythenorth> so one minor reason I got rid of it is that it gives junk errors
16:07:20  <andythenorth> it makes debugging ridiculously hard
16:07:24  <FLHerne> I don't see why they'd be junk though
16:07:41  <FLHerne> If the CPP is including includes, they should be right :P
16:07:52  <andythenorth> [emoji shrug]
16:07:58  <andythenorth> could have been EBKC
16:08:13  <andythenorth> I guess there are all those pnml projects though
16:08:27  <andythenorth> forums often directs people to copy an existing pnml project
16:08:31  <erikandre> So, Until debian pushes 1.10.1 i guess i have to try build the program by source , Make make insTALL and all that other crap
16:08:49  <andythenorth> FLHerne probably have to keep it :(
16:08:52  <andythenorth> urgh
16:12:03  <LordAro> erikandre: afraid so
16:12:46  <erikandre> Everything is better in windows. it just works.
16:13:19  <erikandre> If it had not been for det crappy windows driver and blackscreen in windows. i would have still got windows on my laptop.
16:14:26  <Wolf01> <erikandre> Everything is better in windows. it just works.  <- also on linux, just install a lot of dependencies and install packages from the sites instead of the package manager
16:18:17  <FLHerne> Wolf01: Well, OTTD doesn't have the "generic" binaries anymore
16:18:30  <Wolf01> "shit" :D
16:18:39  <andythenorth> FLHerne compile time flag to suppress line number crap? :P
16:18:41  <andythenorth> or enable it?
16:19:11  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Wouldn't work, needed at lexer generation time
16:19:17  <FLHerne> Well, for perf
16:19:41  <FLHerne> You could have a flag that just disabled the behaviour
16:22:56  <LordAro> erikandre: i think most linux users would violently disagree with "windows just works"
16:23:05  <LordAro> i'm on windows right now, and i certainly do
16:24:29  <andythenorth> nothing just works
16:24:40  <LordAro> pretty much
16:25:00  <andythenorth> macos used to 'just work' for a period of about 7 years, as long as you only used Apple and Adobe stuff, and nothing complicated, and you didn't want to sync your non-Apple phone
16:25:05  <andythenorth> and even that stopped
16:30:44  <_dp_> lol, yeah, windows just works until it doesn't xDDD
16:31:57  <glx> hmm #115 is annoying
16:33:42  <_dp_> though kind of starting to be the case with linux too sadly :(
16:33:52  <_dp_> hard to find good manuals amid the gui crap
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16:34:39  <FLHerne> glx: Which part?
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16:44:24  <LordAro> glx: how do other python packages do it? this can't be a hard problem
16:46:18  <LordAro> black uses this
16:47:43  <LordAro> pycodestyle hardcodes it
16:48:32  <LordAro> as does pyflakes
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17:06:31  <glx> I managed to always use content of for unless the file doesn't exist
17:07:09  <glx> that's ok for compile farm, but for local version it's annoying to have to remove a file to test stuff
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17:09:50  <FLHerne> glx: Is there a hook so can know whether it's running `sdist` or not?
17:10:05  <FLHerne> I was reading the setuptools docs, but they're awful :-(
17:10:37  <glx> I can add a hook yes
17:11:45  <FLHerne> I mean, if it's running `sdist` it should set the version permanently
17:12:07  <glx> other packages need the permanent version too
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17:14:04  <glx> and yes setuptools doc is not very helpful
17:14:52  <glx> and source code doesn't help either as it extends distutils so you have to navigate in 2 source trees
17:19:59  <glx> and even if I can force the regeneration for the right commands it will still use the previous generated version in setup() call
17:21:33  <LordAro> glx: i'd strongly recommend just making use of some other module, like setuptools_scm
17:21:38  <LordAro> there's no point reinventing the wheel here
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18:06:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] giordy commented on issue #8019: AppImage support
18:32:00  <andythenorth> are we doing translations via PRs?
18:32:11  <nielsm> still no
19:20:14  <Samu> this site still doesn't work
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19:56:42  <andythenorth> planetmaker ^ redmine is quietly 500-ing :)
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21:23:06  <blathijs> FLHerne: Re you earlier question: THat it is in a different git repo is not the problem, that just exposes the problem. The problem is IMHO that a release tarball actually looks at git data in the first place.
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21:25:39  <blathijs> glx: I thikn the ideal solution would be if was generated during only inside the build directory, as TrueBrain suggested, so there is no need to remove it afterwards (in fact, there is never a reason to generate outside of build in the git checkout itself, since there you can always just re-detect from git anyway)
21:28:08  <glx> I don't think it's possible, even setuptools_scm puts a file in source
21:29:47  <TrueBrain> setuptools cmdbuild is often used for this
21:29:54  <TrueBrain> take over the build step, and you can do ANYTHING :D
21:30:07  <TrueBrain> cmdclass -> build, I believe
21:30:11  <TrueBrain> in the setup {} blob
21:34:59  <blathijs> I think already has a custom cmdclass for something
21:35:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #115: Fix #112: prevent regeneration for source package
21:35:28  <blathijs> I posted another summary of what I think would be the best approach (assuming setuptools can do it, but TrueBrain suggestion sounds feasible)
21:35:34  <blathijs> Gotta run now though!
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