Log for #openttd on 23rd May 2020:
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07:19:49  <andythenorth> o/
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07:51:00  <Samu> hi
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08:05:35  <Samu> Yexo, do you
08:05:39  <Samu> nvm
08:08:44  <Samu> the WaterPF requires a different builder than mine
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10:17:55  <andythenorth> if a newgrf procedure stores to a temp register, will the register value persist after the procedure returns?
10:24:20  <nielsm> the temps are allocated per callback invocation, as I understand it
10:24:44  <nielsm> so when the callback completes, the temps are lost, not before
10:32:56  <andythenorth> that sounds hopeful
10:33:09  <andythenorth> I'm going to try and make FIRS compile faster
10:33:18  <andythenorth> it's only 18 seconds for me from clean, but still
10:33:20  <andythenorth> faster is nice
10:33:48  <andythenorth> pypy makes an insane difference to FIRS compile time
10:59:04  <andythenorth> oof
10:59:08  <andythenorth> macos won't compile
11:01:17  <andythenorth> older rev compiles
11:02:11  <andythenorth> I haven't done a full bisection, just went to last commit before recent std:: changes
11:11:07  <michi_cc> andythenorth: make clean
11:11:19  <michi_cc> Seems to be a failure in our dep detection.
11:11:57  <andythenorth> thanks :)
11:12:06  <andythenorth>  I did configure, didn't think about clean
11:15:43  * andythenorth wonders if spritelayout can use procedures
11:15:49  <andythenorth> already uses expressions
11:19:55  <andythenorth> I particularly want to get rid of expressions like this
11:20:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
11:20:08  <andythenorth> they are generated hundreds of times into firs.nml
11:20:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
11:48:36  <andythenorth> the nml expressions here break my brain :)
11:48:36  <andythenorth>
11:48:39  <andythenorth> I didn't write them
11:54:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne opened pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues
11:57:07  <LordAro> FLHerne: something in the regression test wouldn't go amiss
11:57:25  <FLHerne> LordAro: ...there is?
11:57:46  <LordAro> FLHerne: i should scroll down the whole diff
11:57:49  <LordAro> :)
11:58:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues
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14:07:10  <supermop_Home> hi
14:08:13  <andythenorth> hi :)
14:11:13  <andythenorth> hmmm
14:11:24  <andythenorth> is it worth using an intermediate grfcodec step for FIRS
14:12:22  <andythenorth> only saves 5s max
14:12:27  <andythenorth> probably not
14:12:37  <FLHerne> andythenorth: No
14:12:54  <andythenorth> typical compile is < 14s now
14:13:02  <andythenorth> that is really quite good
14:13:04  <FLHerne> andythenorth: What would make FIRS a lot faster would be if you directly built an NML AST
14:13:44  <FLHerne> Currently you spend about half the time templating all your numbers into a wall-of-text, and then parsing said wall-of-text
14:13:47  <andythenorth> is that a practical thing to do? o_O
14:14:06  <FLHerne> I mean, it's all Python
14:14:12  <FLHerne> So yes
14:14:23  <FLHerne> will make it less ugly
14:17:05  <FLHerne> I suppose it would be a bit more likely to get broken by nml changes
14:17:25  <FLHerne> But the syntax isn't a stable interface either
14:18:09  <andythenorth> if I was a bit smarter :P
14:18:20  <andythenorth> FIRS *does* have a tree of industry objects, and tile objects
14:18:53  <andythenorth> and some of the callbacks are in a tree structure
14:19:02  <andythenorth> there's a bit too much logic in actual nml right now though
14:20:00  <FLHerne> You'd pretty much go through all the templates and replace them with functions that returned a chunk of AST
14:23:01  * andythenorth pretends he knows what an AST is, instead of just what the definition means :P
14:23:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 approved pull request #148: Version changes.
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14:24:02  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Look at
14:26:43  <andythenorth> :)
14:27:04  <FLHerne> andythenorth: My suggestion is to pretty much do what that does, except without the intermediate "write everything and parse it" step
14:27:06  * andythenorth wonders whether to look for more 0.1s to take off FIRS 
14:27:12  <andythenorth> or just buy a computer that is not slow ass
14:27:30  <andythenorth> I downgraded my CPU significantly in March :|
14:28:44  <andythenorth> how would we get it into nml to write out the result?  pickle?  Or import nml modules to FIRS?
14:28:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne merged pull request #148: Version changes.
14:29:07  <FLHerne> andythenorth: The latter
14:29:26  <nielsm> import the nml modules into FIRS and generate the parse tree directly
14:29:45  <nielsm> then you can have nml output the parse tree to nml format if you want an .nml file
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14:32:03  <FLHerne> That might need a bit of improvement if he wants a *nice* nml file :p
14:36:41  <andythenorth> currently I'm favouring the 'buy a not slow computer' theory :P
14:38:11  <FLHerne> glx: Were you planning to post that unused-parameter optimization as a PR?
14:39:48  <andythenorth> hmm should Intel Turbo Boost apply for single-threaded Python?
14:40:03  <FLHerne> In principle
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14:40:35  <FLHerne> They have turbo for any number of cores now, but highest freq if only one loaded
14:40:42  <FLHerne> But only if it's not too hot
14:41:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues
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14:59:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
15:13:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #151: Add: Ignore unreferenced named parameters
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15:37:34  <FLHerne> > return ((input * this->multiplier) + (round && this->shift != 0 ? 1 << (this->shift - 1) : 0)) >> this->shift;
15:38:04  <FLHerne> Given that `round && <anything truthy>` is always 1, I feel like this is broken
15:40:31  <FLHerne> No, I misunderstood the precedence
16:11:04  <michi_cc> planetmaker: Performance is usually used as the reason for not doing "dynamic" track sprites, but if you look at what a crapload of stuff the catenary drawing does to get crossings right, I don't see any performance problem with a few more vars.
16:11:12  <michi_cc> Of course, somebody still has to code it.
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16:32:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues
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16:38:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues
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17:12:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues
17:22:55  <andythenorth> hmm FIRS makefile might be clown shoes
17:23:34  <andythenorth> the Iron Horse one was fixed for me
17:29:36  <andythenorth> hmm different kind of clown shoes :D
17:29:43  <andythenorth> that's saved 10% of compile time
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18:47:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #151: Add: Ignore unreferenced named parameters
18:53:36  <andythenorth> I cut 1MB off firs.nml
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19:23:02  <FLHerne> How?
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19:43:06  <andythenorth> reduced redundancy
19:43:22  <andythenorth> eliminated repeated spritesets
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19:44:05  <andythenorth> also a bunch of repeated code for setting terrain tile
19:44:32  <andythenorth> it's snail_UES_ :)
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20:24:50  <andythenorth> sub 10s FIRS compile with primed caches :)
20:24:54  <andythenorth> that's really not bad
20:25:13  <andythenorth> grfcodec would not be much faster
20:25:58  <andythenorth> ok grfcodec is sub 2s, but still
20:52:12  <Samu> @seen yexo
20:52:12  <DorpsGek> Samu: yexo was last seen in #openttd 22 hours, 58 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Yexo> GN
21:14:10  <supermop_Home> andythenorth is the hst car like a luxury car?
21:25:44  <andythenorth> supermop_Home intermediate
21:25:58  <andythenorth> it has a small payment decay bonus
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21:48:26  <supermop_Home> cant decide whether these 5 tile wyvern hauled luxury cars should become HSTs or something banal
21:49:01  <andythenorth> what's the class 50 thing?
21:49:38  <andythenorth> what version are you playing? :)
21:50:03  <andythenorth> wait for the Onslaught I reckon
21:52:22  <supermop_Home> I've got the onslaught
21:52:30  <supermop_Home> it seems overkill for 5 tiles?
21:53:00  <supermop_Home> vanguard seems best incremental upgrade
21:53:08  <andythenorth> it is
21:53:17  <supermop_Home> but i think i might need to switch to regular cars to increase capacity
21:53:17  <andythenorth> but it's deliberately a bit vanilla and dull
21:53:42  <supermop_Home> maybe electrify the line and use the Olympic emu thing?
21:53:55  <supermop_Home> not a super busy line though
21:55:04  <andythenorth> use a snowplough
21:55:07  <andythenorth> oops
21:55:10  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
21:56:32  <supermop_Home>
21:56:36  <supermop_Home> bit busy here
21:57:18  <supermop_Home> currently DMUs turn back in the center platform
21:57:56  <andythenorth> such road types :)
22:00:02  <supermop_Home> those freights going to the harbor really should be electric
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22:09:30  * andythenorth sleeping time 
22:09:32  <andythenorth> oof
22:09:48  <andythenorth> I just started a new game, but ma eyes are closing
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23:19:25  <Speeder> how hard is to create a new economy for FIRS?
23:19:30  <Speeder> I am making a Map about Brazil
23:19:42  <Speeder> and kinda sad that half of the relevant industries are in one economy, and the other half is in the other
23:19:55  <Speeder> don't even need new industries, just merge existing ones
23:20:18  <Speeder> (although I would love to have a nuclear powerplant... Brazil has only one but it is wildly famous, maybe because there is only one)
23:20:39  <Speeder> (that said Brazil export a lot of nuclear fuel, so would be good to be able to do  that too)
23:21:25  <FLHerne> Speeder: Code-wise, trivial
23:22:45  <supermop_Home> Speeder "a lot" of nuclear fuel is still usually pretty small in terms of train loads per year,
23:23:17  <FLHerne> Add a new file under src/economies with the list of cargos, add `industry.economy_variations['NEW_ECONOMY'].enabled = True to the industries you want to be in it
23:23:25  <FLHerne> And a couple of strings
23:23:43  <FLHerne> AIUI, the hard part is getting the balance right so it's fun
23:24:00  <FLHerne> And drawing all the pixels, of course
23:24:04  <supermop_Home> which is the main reason andy hasn't included any nuclear industry chains.. it's just not that interesting at Openttd scale
23:24:15  <Speeder> well, for nuclear fuel maybe join all of the minerals as one, "Rare Earths"
23:24:25  <Speeder> Brazil is one of the biggest exporters of "rare earths"
23:25:32  <Speeder> FLHerne, my idea is merge a bunch of "Hot Country" into "Extreme"
23:25:38  <Speeder> specially cassava and coffee
23:25:48  <Speeder> since those are staple foods here
23:27:41  <FLHerne> Makes sense to me
23:28:14  <Speeder> where is firs source?
23:28:16  <FLHerne> Although Extreme is pretty big already, so you might want to drop something...
23:28:16  <Speeder> <<< gives 404
23:28:48  <FLHerne> Speeder:
23:29:10  <FLHerne> (master won't build with current nml, you need the v4 branch or one of the other recent ones)
23:29:22  <FLHerne> (or older nml)
23:29:44  <Speeder> also would have to change "beet"
23:30:02  <Speeder> nml?
23:31:02  <FLHerne>
23:31:50  <Speeder> how I figure out what v4 does different?
23:31:56  <Speeder> or how useful, or not... it is?
23:33:39  <FLHerne> Ask andy tomorrow is probably easiest
23:33:55  <FLHerne> Rephrasing more clearly:
23:34:15  <FLHerne>  - The 'master' branch of FIRS can't be compiled with the current version of nml
23:34:42  <FLHerne> So you can compile the 'v4-development-track' or another recent branch with current nml
23:34:54  <Speeder> just saw FIRS 4 will remove extreme and hot country
23:35:00  <Speeder> that... kinda is totally opposite of what I want :P
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23:35:15  <Speeder> so I won't use v4 as base
23:35:17  <FLHerne> Or one of the tagged FIRS releases with an older nml version
23:35:18  <Speeder> need to choose another branch
23:35:47  <FLHerne> sorry, v4-release-track is the current branch
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