Log for #openttd on 1st June 2020:
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05:26:46  <andythenorth> oof
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08:24:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo opened pull request #8179: Fix #8024: make online content gui more responsive while loading
08:26:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo commented on issue #8172: No trains past diesel models?
08:26:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo closed issue #8172: No trains past diesel models?
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08:48:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8179: Fix #8024: make online content gui more responsive while loading
08:59:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo merged pull request #8179: Fix #8024: make online content gui more responsive while loading
08:59:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo closed issue #8024: "Check Online Content" lags the UI
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09:35:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo opened pull request #8180: Fix #8166: don't crash on loading an invalid roadtype newgrf
09:36:12  <andythenorth> \o/
09:42:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo approved pull request #8176: Fix #7970: [Win32] Disable event loop on crash to prevent recursive faults
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09:56:07  <Gadg8eer> Does anyone here have any knowledge about m4nfo? I need to find "Sprite 112" in my code... "A portion of sprite 112 could not be processed." ...but I'm not sure how to find the pseudosprite in question.
09:58:07  <Yexo> I'd start by looking at the generated nfo code, find sprite 112, then work backwards from there to get to the corresponding m4nfo code
10:08:09  <Gadg8eer> That worked. Thanks!
10:36:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8180: Fix #8166: don't crash on loading an invalid roadtype newgrf
10:44:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo merged pull request #8180: Fix #8166: don't crash on loading an invalid roadtype newgrf
10:44:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo closed issue #8166: Crash when loading stupid roadtypes newgrf
10:52:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8179: Fix #8024: make online content gui more responsive while loading
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11:45:40  <FLHerne> Yexo: Do you know if it's valid for railtypes to not have a label?
11:45:53  <FLHerne> I'm a bit surprised there isn't a check in NML for this
11:46:20  <FLHerne> But if I define a railtype *without* a label, it does seem to at least appear in OTTD
11:47:17  <FLHerne> (the equivalent roadtype crashed until just now, o/c)
11:47:34  <frosch123> the railtype is defined by defining a label
11:47:42  <frosch123> are you sure nml does not insert 0000 or something?
11:48:56  <frosch123> hmm, looks like item id 0..3 default to the original railtypes
11:49:05  <frosch123> so you can change them without defining a label
11:51:18  <FLHerne> Hm
11:51:20  <frosch123> i don't think this is documented behaviour :p
11:51:38  <FLHerne> So, no-one would complain if i just enforce that label: is set?
11:51:49  <frosch123> i would welcome that :)
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12:10:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8176: Fix #7970: [Win32] Disable event loop on crash to prevent recursive faults
12:10:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed pull request #8175: Fix #7970: Recursive faults in Windows post-crash due to event loop input
12:10:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #7970: Crash in crash handler - Assertion failed at line 2981 of window.cpp
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12:28:51  <Yexo> From In NFO, rail type IDs will be GRF local, with an ID to label mapping. Therefore to modify an existing rail type, specify its label in property 08. To create a new rail type, again just specify its label in property 08.
12:29:00  <Yexo> The way I read that is that it's mandatory to specify a label
12:29:43  <frosch123> yes, i also read it like that
12:29:51  <Yexo> To enforce that in the code we need to remove the pre-initialization of the railtype_map here:
12:30:02  <frosch123> i wonder what we break if we do that :)
12:30:46  <Yexo> From what I can tell the railtype_map is only used for railtype newgrfs
12:32:44  <Yexo> FLHerne: Go for the enforcement, but test some existing railtype newgrfs to make sure those don't break
12:40:02  * andythenorth wonders about shunting
12:40:08  <andythenorth> but with consists of consists
12:40:17  <andythenorth> no arbitrarily combining wagons
12:40:32  * andythenorth never tried the shunting patch
12:40:35  <supermop_Home> shunting is fun
12:40:41  <andythenorth> what does the patch do?
12:40:43  <supermop_Home> takes a long time
12:41:05  <supermop_Home> so its better if you want to see pretty trains shunting around,
12:41:32  <andythenorth> I want to be able to do something like
12:41:40  <supermop_Home> but, like real life you are tempted to use MUs everywhere to save turnaround time
12:41:42  <andythenorth> consist A->B, consist C->B
12:41:52  <andythenorth> then both consists travel combined B->D
12:42:04  <supermop_Home> the patch really struggled with things like that
12:42:14  <andythenorth> I can nearly do it with cdist and transfers
12:42:33  <andythenorth> I don't actually want to see wagons moving around
12:42:38  <andythenorth> it's the flow I want
12:42:48  <andythenorth> but 'refit any available' doesn't work with cdist, so I can't use it
12:47:43  <supermop_Home> yes it does
12:47:51  <supermop_Home> it clearly does
12:48:06  <supermop_Home> i don't know why you always are saying that
12:48:37  <andythenorth> because cdist establishes unwanted links
12:49:33  <andythenorth> which can't be cleared, except by demolishing the station, and restablishing the graph
12:49:38  <andythenorth> re-establishing :)
12:50:40  <FLHerne> I'm with supermop_Home on this one
12:50:47  <FLHerne> I use it all the time, it works
12:51:01  <supermop_Home> works for me, use it every game:
12:51:03  <supermop_Home>
12:51:32  <FLHerne> As with all the other features, you can certainly make it *not* work
12:51:57  <andythenorth> I could post screenshots of it not working
12:52:20  <andythenorth> I'm not deliberately being obtuse, I've seen it not work over and over again
12:52:32  <supermop_Home> that route there has been running about 20 game years
12:52:44  <FLHerne> Then you're doing it Wrong™
12:52:52  <FLHerne> (somehow)
12:53:15  <andythenorth> it's not a bug, it's the only possible behaviour
12:53:44  <andythenorth> its usually caused by a lost train visiting a station
12:53:46  <andythenorth> or similar
12:54:06  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Then your problem is not using 'non-stop' orders exclusively
12:54:14  <andythenorth> or having lost trains
12:54:14  <FLHerne> (seriously, why isn't that the default)
12:54:39  <andythenorth> the cause is myriad, anything from a network jam to a badly placed signal
12:55:19  <FLHerne> I'm still very confused about what you think the problem is
12:55:21  <andythenorth> but once the link is up, the choices are either reload an old save, or destroy the station, and re-establish all the cargo links manually (which requires refitting the trains explicitly)
12:55:41  <andythenorth> the problem is specifically cdist adding edges where I don't want an edge
12:56:17  <FLHerne> Then you shouldn't add the edge :p
12:56:20  <andythenorth> it's not a bug, cdist wouldn't work any other way
12:56:40  <andythenorth> not adding the edge would only work if I played entirely isolated point to point networks
12:56:57  <andythenorth> and never fucked up a refit
12:57:13  <andythenorth> and never sent out a train without changing the default refit
12:57:42  <FLHerne> I don't play isolated p2p networks, and am fallible, and I still don't see your problem :P
12:58:21  <andythenorth> I think it's actually solved in JGRPP
12:58:29  <andythenorth> that also needs TM
13:06:40  <supermop_Home> yeah andy i'm having trouble identifying this as a problem
13:07:12  <supermop_Home> i also have large networks, and even the occasional lost train
13:07:43  <supermop_Home> and stations that are major transit points for multiple cargos
13:08:56  <supermop_Home> isolated networks only seems necessary in those cases where you are really trying to make cargo go somewhere it does not want to go?
13:10:06  <supermop_Home> i do see the appeal of breaking up rakes with shunting to make small branch lines nice though
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13:37:25  <andythenorth> once the link is up, the trains get filled with cargo that has no acceptance
13:37:37  <supermop_Home> vehicle dealers seem to want to be too close to the city center
13:37:51  <andythenorth> yeah, I'm fixing that
13:38:34  <supermop_Home> once the city gets big, you can't fund them in the inner suburbs that seem like a natural choice
13:41:10  <JGR_> Andy: Most players stick to single-cargo trains
13:42:18  <JGR_> The per-cargo load/unload types patch is in large part to mitigate that issue though
13:44:35  <supermop_Home> andythenorth:
13:45:15  <andythenorth> supermop_Home I'm going to make it just locate by a road, 'somewhat near a town'
13:45:23  <andythenorth> if I can figure out the location check for that :P
13:47:06  <supermop_Home> in this case i am trying to fund one
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14:19:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] newHeiko commented on issue #7496: Crashes on start - malloc(): invalid next size (unsorted)
14:22:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro reopened issue #7496: Crashes on start - malloc(): invalid next size (unsorted)
14:31:07  <andythenorth> modest proposal: explicit cdist
14:31:27  <andythenorth> manually specify the start and end nodes
14:31:57  <andythenorth> let cdist do the rest, on the current model, by forcing values for next hops at intermediate stations
14:32:14  <frosch123> add industry properties for demand and scaling
14:32:19  <andythenorth> extension: let GS specify start and end nodes :P
14:32:52  <andythenorth> sandbox, or scenario mode
14:32:59  <andythenorth> whilst we're there, delete subsidies :P
14:33:10  <frosch123> one property to set how much supply is good, and another to distribute under/over supply
14:33:11  <andythenorth> oops did I go too far again?  I always ruin a good proposal :|
14:33:29  <frosch123> subsidies are already deleted for cdist
14:33:41  <andythenorth> frosch123 should this be written down? :P
14:33:54  <frosch123> if it has any substance, then yes
14:33:55  <andythenorth> or shall I forget and discuss it again in 6 months
14:34:01  <frosch123> if it is just random rambling, then no
14:34:08  <andythenorth> I am serious about the idea, but the UI might suck
14:34:20  <andythenorth> and it might be really annoying to play
14:34:26  <andythenorth> is this what simutrans does?
14:34:45  <frosch123> no idea, simutrans gui scares me off after 50 seconds
14:34:49  <frosch123> never got so far
14:34:52  <andythenorth> me neither
14:35:36  <andythenorth> this would probably be some kind of station UI thing?  'From this station send [cargo] to destination [station | automatic]'
14:36:18  <andythenorth> as far as I understand cdist, we don't then need to give cargopackets destinations, we just set next hop weights at all the intermediate nodes
14:36:28  <andythenorth> probably the demand algorithm somewhat does it already
14:36:37  <andythenorth> so maybe it just creates highly specific demand
14:38:07  <supermop_Home> "from mine in NW corner, only send coal to powerplant in SE corner, and for mine in SE corner, only send coal to NW corner"
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15:04:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #7496: Crashes on start - malloc(): invalid next size (unsorted)
15:06:02  <LordAro> we should probably just drop libxdg-basedir, tbh
15:06:02  <frosch123> do we still have known-bugs. txt?
15:06:13  <LordAro> it's basically just an ENV_VAR lookup + fallback
15:07:08  <LordAro> i think blathijs said we were almost(?) the only user of it as well
15:09:48  <frosch123>
15:09:51  <frosch123> yes :p
15:13:15  <frosch123> you can also put it into 3rdparty
15:13:56  <blathijs> Did I? :-)
15:14:06  <LordAro> it seems like something you would've said
15:14:15  <LordAro> :p
15:21:02  <blathijs> I might have, can't remember though.
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16:09:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] newHeiko commented on issue #7496: Crashes on start - malloc(): invalid next size (unsorted)
16:13:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7496: Crashes on start - malloc(): invalid next size (unsorted)
16:17:15  <frosch123> haha, just to confirm the theory. the guy who is supposedly maintaining the ottd package, also maintains the libxdg-basedir package
16:17:47  * andythenorth so hungry
16:17:51  <andythenorth> calls all day
16:17:59  <andythenorth> calls make me hungry
16:18:10  <andythenorth> so brain
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16:33:50  <LordAro> so, 1.10.2 ?
16:33:53  <LordAro> anyone?
16:34:45  <andythenorth> why not :)
16:34:52  <andythenorth> I am going to release Horse soon
16:35:05  <andythenorth> 2.5.1 eh
16:39:06  <LordAro> backport #8170 ?
16:39:10  <LordAro> or not worth the bother?
16:39:26  <nielsm> there's still the old-macos issue but uh.... yeah "someone" needs to do "something" about it
16:39:50  <LordAro> can we just put a if version > 1.12.6 around it?
16:39:57  <LordAro> is there a runtime check like that?
16:40:17  <nielsm> there is, it's already used in several places
16:40:35  <Yexo> <LordAro> backport #8170 ? <- Yes please
16:40:43  <LordAro> Yexo: :+1:
16:40:46  <Yexo> Otherwise it doesn't compile with an up-to-date VS anymore, which can be annoying
16:40:58  <LordAro> nielsm: that'd probably do then, given it's otherwise out of date
16:42:12  <nielsm> some null checks should probably also do it
16:48:32  <Yexo> LordAro: Is #8093 in your list already?
16:49:21  <Yexo> nvm, found it
16:52:27  <LordAro> Yexo: afaik, i've got everything that's tagged backport requested
16:52:37  <LordAro> though please do tell me if i've missed anything
16:57:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8135: Prepare for 1.10.2 release
16:59:07  <nielsm> I'll make an attempt-fix for the macos 10.12 issue in a moment then, got my old mac booted up again
16:59:20  <LordAro> :+1:
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17:26:43  <Speeder_> II think I will have to split "goods" somehow
17:26:54  <Speeder_> or allow people to get goods from a port and ship to another port
17:29:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #8181: Fix #8066: Try another fallback colourspace if first one fails
17:31:39  <LordAro> nielsm: are we sure the crash is due to the pointer being null?
17:31:45  <nielsm> no
17:31:46  <LordAro> rather than just some invalid value
17:31:53  <andythenorth> Speeder_ what are 'goods' anyway? :)
17:32:33  <nielsm> goods is things produced from livestock, grain, steel, copper, wood, and/or oil
17:32:44  <nielsm> I thought that much was clear?
17:35:40  <Speeder_> well... for example, in default TTD, you cna make "goods" in a printing press.
17:35:55  <Speeder_> Brazil imported, and still imports, lots of these type of "goods"
17:36:18  <Speeder_> at same time Brazil exported, and still exports a little, of clothes and textiles.
17:36:20  <Speeder_> that is also "goods"
17:36:33  <Speeder_> but if I let both remain "goods", people can just take stuff from a port, and put back in the port.
17:37:16  <LordAro> you're trying to apply real life to TTD
17:37:18  <LordAro> stop it
17:38:18  <LordAro> nielsm: you say you have an old mac, is it old enough to test your PR?
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17:38:26  <LordAro> or shall we just merge it and hope?
17:38:36  <LordAro> i really want to get 1.10.2 done
17:38:59  <Speeder_> LordAro, and what you suggest?
17:39:05  <nielsm> nope, it's running 10.13 and I'm not sure there is any easy way to downgrade
17:39:17  <nielsm> and I don't have any spare disks to make a fresh OS install
17:40:05  <andythenorth> no external USB? :)
17:40:36  <nielsm> nothing free that's also fast enough
17:40:48  <nielsm> <- this is the call I suspect is crashing
17:40:58  <LordAro> fast enough is a relative term :p
17:41:08  <nielsm> and it's not exactly something that can be skipped since it creates the primary surface for the video output
17:41:12  <glx> so only test option is merge and ask affected people to test next nightly ?
17:41:33  <nielsm> which is why I suspect the color_space pointer is invalid
17:41:47  <nielsm> since the only other changes in that PR were how the color_space was obtained
17:42:10  <LordAro> that would follow, i think
17:42:14  <LordAro> screw it
17:42:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8181: Fix #8066: Try another fallback colourspace if first one fails
17:42:39  <nielsm> and I doubt apple's CGColorSpace* functions would return non-null invalid pointers :)
17:43:00  <nielsm> and everything indicates that the pointer does not require an additional "retain"/"add reference" call
17:43:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8181: Fix #8066: Try another fallback colourspace if first one fails
17:43:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #8066: 1.10.1 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6
17:43:59  <nielsm> has today's nightly been built yet? :D
17:44:15  <nielsm> we should probably ask in the issue for people to test
17:44:25  <LordAro> in a few minutes, i believe
17:44:30  <nielsm> nice
17:44:37  <LordAro> translator commit is 18:45, i think nightly is 19:00 ?
17:44:41  <LordAro> (BST)
17:44:49  <glx> not yet
17:45:27  <glx> nightly build start in 15 minute
17:45:48  <nielsm> hm now, in derail valley, do I get the Hazmat 2 or the Military 1 license next
17:46:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8135: Prepare for 1.10.2 release
17:46:54  <LordAro> preemptive :p
17:47:33  <LordAro> github's got confused about commit order again
17:52:53  <milek7> valve index seems interesting
17:52:59  <milek7> but is it actually possible to buy?
17:58:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] pyup-bot opened pull request #24: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June
18:01:12  <glx> nightly build started btw
18:05:27  <supermop_Home> perfect weather today
18:09:49  <andythenorth> here also
18:13:27  <LordAro> yup
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18:19:57  <nielsm> I suppose the nightly is finished now, someone should test it
18:20:30  <nielsm> andythenorth can you verify if the nightly build is no worse than expected? :)
18:21:44  <LordAro> website thinks it's finished
18:23:14  <LordAro> should let the (remaining) 10.12 users know
18:24:04  <andythenorth> nielsm anything in particular I'm looking for?
18:24:16  <nielsm> performance, crashing
18:25:53  <andythenorth> seems pretty normal
18:26:26  <andythenorth> people should take more pictures like this
18:26:28  <andythenorth> aids FIRS
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18:26:51  <andythenorth> completely unrealistic picture though
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18:27:04  <andythenorth> everyone knows from OpenTTD, trains are much longer than industries
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18:42:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8066: 1.10.1 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6
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18:43:10  *** sets mode: +oo Yexo DorpsGek
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18:49:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo approved pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
18:51:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo commented on pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
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19:13:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc dismissed a review for pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
19:13:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
19:13:29  <michi_cc> Yexo: Shouldn't have made a suggestion, now you need to re-approve :p
19:13:31  <supermop_Home> andythenorth this one is nice:
19:13:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo approved pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
19:14:16  <Yexo> Yeah, I understand why it works this way, but I'd prefer a bit more trust and not dismissing an approval on small changes
19:15:29  <michi_cc> Well, a single character change can either be a typo fix, or e.g. break everything if it is like * to /. I don't know how GitHub should distinguish this.
19:16:45  <nielsm> that would require something like waiting for the CI to complete and compare the output to previous run and automatically re-approve if the output is identical
19:17:00  <nielsm> and even then that wouldn't necessarily catch things like malicious doc-changes :P
19:17:25  <Yexo> Ideally it wouldn't: once I approve I approve of the concept, maybe pending small changes. I'd trust the author to make the appropriate last-minute small changes and merge afterwards
19:17:59  <Yexo> Needs more trust, but less approval stamping for trivial updates
19:19:29  <michi_cc> Hmm, something went wrong on that push (or git is lying to me).
19:20:00  <supermop_Home> well after preparing her presentation for the last week, my wifes team sent out a message to cancel all meetings 5 min before she was going to present
19:22:12  <LordAro> supermop_Home: oh no
19:24:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc dismissed a review for pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
19:24:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
19:24:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo commented on pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window
19:25:00  <michi_cc> Yexo: Sorry, too many checkouts makes for confused me.
19:25:30  <Yexo> michi_cc: no worries. What changed? Github tells me "No new changes since last review"
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19:25:57  <michi_cc> That's interesting. I pushed the wrong thing previously.
19:26:09  <michi_cc> It should tell you lots of things changed.
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19:27:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo approved pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
19:28:07  <Yexo> Found the diff now (manually, not sure how github can tell me)
19:28:23  <supermop_Home> LordAro it seems it is more or less company wide
19:28:48  <Yexo> <nielsm> and even then that wouldn't necessarily catch things like malicious doc-changes :P <- ^^ shows how easy it is to sneak not even trivial changes by me if you wanted to
19:29:40  <supermop_Home> my company however seems to be making no particular note of things
19:29:46  <michi_cc> Make change in repo 1, force push from repo 2. Profit!
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19:29:56  <supermop_Home> except for a personal note from the COO
19:30:25  <nielsm> michi_cc: what would be most impressive is if you accidentally pushed an entirely different project over to an ottd branch
19:31:06  <michi_cc> Well, for that to happen I would have to accidentally also change the remote push url.
19:31:11  <LordAro> not impossible
19:31:33  <LordAro> would just create a completely separate commit tree
19:31:58  <michi_cc> Fully supported by git, even if not that useful.
19:33:43  <LordAro>
19:34:01  <LordAro> linux has 3 root commits, for instance
19:34:25  <LordAro> wait, 4
19:34:59  <milek7> "It's pulled, and it's fine, but there's clearly a balance between "octopus merges are fine" and "Christ, that's not an octopus, that's a Cthulhu merge"."
19:35:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders.
19:35:35  <LordAro> Cthulhu merge is love, Cthulhu merge is life
19:40:37  <Speeder_> can a script create an oponent?
19:40:55  <Speeder_> like choose an AI, portrait and HQ city?
19:40:59  <Yexo> GameScript? I don't think so
19:41:16  <Yexo> AI itself can chose HQ, not sure about portrait
19:41:32  <LordAro> don't believe it can do portraiy
19:41:38  <LordAro> portrait*
19:41:45  <LordAro> can do manager name & gender though
19:43:27  <Yexo> Speeder_: I don't see a good use-case for an AI setting the portrait, but if you have something I'm not opposed to a PR for that
19:44:47  <supermop_Home> AI with machine vision and a fashion sense?
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19:46:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buynov commented on issue #8066: 1.10.1 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6
19:46:45  <nielsm> :( still broken
19:46:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh reopened issue #8066: 1.10.1 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6
19:47:07  <LordAro> bleh.
19:47:13  <LordAro> 1.10.2 anyway?
19:47:19  <nielsm> yeah
19:47:25  <Yexo> 1.10.2-RC1 to buy a bit more time?
19:47:34  <Yexo> Or is the cause still unclear enough that it can't be fixed soon?
19:48:03  <Yexo> Or just go ahead with 1.10.2 and we can make a 1.10.3 once it's fixed
19:48:46  <LordAro> no real need for RC1, imo
19:48:47  <nielsm> yeah better just go ahead
19:48:56  <LordAro> don't think there's anything we need testing
19:49:06  <nielsm> supporting a minority on an old unsupported-by-vendor OS version is not critical
19:49:11  <LordAro> i should adjust the changelog entry for the macos thing though
19:49:23  <Yexo> Fair enough
19:49:29  <Speeder_> Yexo, I am creating a scenario, and wanted the scenario to create some oponents for the player
19:49:43  <Speeder_> for example in a historical scenario, spawn historical transport companies
19:50:19  <nielsm> the only way to create AI players programmatically is in a multiplayer server, where an external script could be sending rcon commands
19:50:59  <nielsm> what you can do is have some AIs that start immediately, but stay dormant until the appropriate year has been reached
19:51:11  <nielsm> and the GS can keep them alive by giving them money once in a while
19:53:33  <Yexo> AI settings are saved in the savegame/scenario file. So you can configure how many AIs should start and approximately when they start
19:53:48  <nielsm> also that
19:53:56  <Speeder_> oh, you can define WHEN they start?
19:54:04  <Speeder_> they don't start always in a fixed date after the last one?
19:54:11  <nielsm> although the player can change the AI start offsets (or disabled them entirely) when they haven't started yet
19:54:39  <Yexo> Sure, but a player can disable other settings you make specific for the scenario
19:55:06  <Yexo> I believe a gamescript can impersonate the AI after it has started and change the president name and HQ location
19:56:59  <Yexo> Speeder_: in the AI?Game script configuration window, select an AI slot, click "Configure" at the bottom. You can set settings for that particular AI. The top setting is always the start delay after the previous AI start
19:57:13  <Yexo> this delay is randomized slightly by OpenTTD (unless you specify 0)
19:58:11  <Speeder_> ah I see
19:58:27  <Speeder_> so although in a convoluted way, I can set the dates of each AI
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19:59:59  <spnda> inside the python NML code, where can tokens be defined, like 'true' or so and be given a value?
20:00:30  <Yexo>
20:04:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] spnda opened pull request #154: Add boolean constants
20:11:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] Yexo commented on pull request #154: Add boolean constants
20:16:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] spnda commented on pull request #154: Add boolean constants
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20:22:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8135: Prepare for 1.10.2 release
20:26:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] Yexo commented on pull request #154: Add boolean constants
20:26:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 commented on pull request #154: Add boolean constants
20:27:25  <Yexo> I handn't even spotted that yet :o]
20:28:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro opened pull request #160: Add: 1.10.2 release announcement
20:32:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] spnda commented on pull request #154: Add boolean constants
20:33:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8178: Simplify code by removing 2 global variables.
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20:38:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo updated pull request #8178: Simplify code by removing 2 global variables.
20:39:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo commented on pull request #8178: Simplify code by removing 2 global variables.
20:41:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8178: Simplify code by removing 2 global variables.
20:45:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] Yexo commented on pull request #78: Add: optimise switches
20:45:57  <LordAro> there are some PRs that might be worth some thinking about for 1.10.2
20:46:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo merged pull request #8178: Simplify code by removing 2 global variables.
20:46:20  <Yexo> Such as?
20:46:32  <LordAro> #8157/#8159, #8149
20:46:38  <LordAro> oh, just the two :)
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20:48:33  <Yexo> I don't think #8157/#8159 is actually the cause of any desyncs. It can be slightly optimized, but the effect of that will be barely noticable (only at start of month). Changes there will be non-obvious, I generally would not backport that
20:50:20  <Yexo> As for #8149: that attempts to fix a minor gui glitch. Don't see a reason to backport that especially if there are any doubts on corner-cases / reason for the old code like you expressed in your last comment
20:51:36  <Yexo> It's also unclear to me if anybody has really tested #8149
20:52:13  <LordAro> alright then
20:52:39  <LordAro> i await someone's approval on the various PRs :)
20:55:03  <Yexo> Do you want to keep "Fix #8066: Try another fallback colourspace if first one fails" even though it was confirmed to not fix the issue?
20:57:19  <Yexo> #8163 has "backport requested" label, but I don't see the backport for it?
20:58:04  <Yexo> same with #8160
20:58:07  <LordAro> I thought i removed the '#8066' from the message
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20:58:46  <Yexo> I'm looking at for what you backported
20:58:49  <LordAro> looks like i missed #8156 as well
20:59:30  <LordAro> right yes, it's (obviously) still in the commit message, but the changelog doesn't mention #8066
20:59:39  <LordAro> i don't touch the commit message when backporting
21:01:19  <Yexo> #8165 is missing as well I think
21:01:30  <LordAro> yes, it would be
21:01:50  <LordAro> good to see someone else is awake :)
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21:09:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8135: Prepare for 1.10.2 release
21:13:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo approved pull request #8135: Prepare for 1.10.2 release
21:17:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8135: Prepare for 1.10.2 release
21:17:19  <LordAro> right, last chance to stop me from tagging
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21:19:32  <Samu_> wow 1.10.2 finally
21:20:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro created new tag: 1.10.2
21:21:06  <LordAro> bam.
21:21:14  <LordAro> fingers crossed the 20.04 build works
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21:42:54  <_dp_> did you just release 1.10.2 without desync patch? o_O
21:43:25  <glx> some desync fix are included
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21:43:42  <_dp_> I mean subsidy desync
21:44:21  <_dp_> didn't notice any fix in commits
21:44:32  <_dp_> and pr is still open
21:48:22  <FLHerne> _dp_: Discussed above
21:48:33  <FLHerne> <Yexo> I don't think #8157/#8159 is actually the cause of any desyncs. It can be slightly optimized, but the effect of that will be barely noticable (only at start of month). Changes there will be non-obvious, I generally would not backport that
21:49:30  <FLHerne> If you're certain it is,, 1.10.3 :p
21:49:34  <_dp_> well, if I understood JGR correctly it did cause desyncs in his pp
21:49:54  <_dp_> and I don't why wouldn't it cause them in vanilla
21:50:01  <_dp_> it's rare but possible
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22:00:13  <andythenorth> is there any reason town layout couldn't be newgrfed?
22:00:46  <andythenorth> cb when wanting to build a road, with a tile location for an existing road piece
22:00:58  <andythenorth> newgrf returns direction to grow in, or none
22:03:13  <_dp_> also... judging by symptoms of 1.10.1 desyncs I'm certain 1.10.2 will be desyncing as well, just not sure if it's subsidies or smth else
22:04:22  <_dp_> these rare desyncs are a royal pita to debug
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22:05:55  <orudge> So in the past year, around 10,000 people have downloaded OpenTTD via the Windows Store; apparently around 80-125 users have played OpenTTD from the Store on average each day for the past month (presumably that depends on them having some kind of MS telemetry enabled anyway). "Average engagement minutes" is about 47 minutes.
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22:12:14  <_dp_> I bet 99/100 played for 5 minutes and 1 for 50 hours xD
22:57:19  <Gadg8eer> Anyone online with m4nfo experience?
23:05:41  <FLHerne> Unlikely
23:06:55  <FLHerne> What are you trying to code?
23:18:13  <Gadg8eer> Bridges.
23:19:58  <FLHerne> Oh, right, NML doesn't do those yet :-/
23:20:15  <FLHerne> Yexo might be worth asking, if he's still here
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23:55:25  <Speeder_> can GS spawn disasters?
23:55:34  <Speeder_> also can GS destroy player-owned vehicles?
23:55:59  <_dp_> no and no

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