Log for #openttd on 12th June 2020:
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00:00:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
00:25:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8204: cmake: make install DESTDIR="something" ignores GLOBAL_DIR option
00:34:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Nik-mmzd commented on issue #8204: cmake: make install DESTDIR="something" ignores GLOBAL_DIR option
00:35:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
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01:20:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] pavloant commented on issue #8038: Fullscreen mode in MacOSX is almost unusable
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06:49:47  <andythenorth> AndyP yo
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07:13:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
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08:36:05  <argoneus> hello
08:36:32  <argoneus> I'm thinking of setting up a server for some friends, any grfs you'd consider mandatory?
08:36:35  <argoneus> or just vanilla is fine
08:36:43  <argoneus> for a new player
08:42:11  <FLHerne> For a new player, probably not tbh
08:42:58  <FLHerne> Maybe eGRVTS or Road Hog, the default RVs aren't great
08:43:02  <FLHerne> Or a ship grf
08:43:02  <argoneus> also am I blind or are the settings for realistic acceleration etc gone?
08:43:29  <argoneus> oh it was in advaced
08:43:31  <argoneus> advanced*
08:43:37  <FLHerne> that
08:44:05  <argoneus> im just going to assume the defaults are sane
08:44:22  <FLHerne> argoneus: Make orders non-stop by default
08:44:47  <FLHerne> (that really should *be* the default, but I don't think it is)
08:45:01  <argoneus> a ok
08:45:12  <FLHerne> Especially for new players it'll save a lot of hunting down lost trains
08:45:29  <FLHerne> and debugging stupid orders
08:45:58  <FLHerne> Oh, and the default mapgen settings are horrible
08:46:24  <FLHerne> They're carefully tuned to give a flat world with little ponds and far too many towns
08:46:43  <argoneus> ye I'll look over those
08:46:48  <argoneus> I usually just generate a scenario
08:46:55  <argoneus> until I'm happy with it and then load it on the server
08:47:11  <argoneus> any train sets that are like a better vanilla?
08:47:16  <argoneus> no NUTS
08:48:02  <argoneus> I know someone here made iron horse but im not sure if that's overkill
08:49:26  <arikover`> For the vehicles, it depends on when you're planning to start your game, I would say.
08:49:35  <argoneus> I'd say like 1920
08:49:49  <Timberwolf> For a beginner it also depends how quickly they get the idea of refits.
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08:51:27  <argoneus4> thanks internet, did I miss anything?
08:52:00  <FLHerne> only line since your last was <Timberwolf> For a beginner it also depends how quickly they get the idea of refits.
08:52:06  <argoneus4> alright
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08:52:27  <argoneus7> test
08:52:51  <Timberwolf> Vanilla has the advantage you can get a good network going before you have to refit anything, rather than the "why does the only open wagon I have access to not load iron ore?"
08:55:33  <arikover`> For 1920, vanilla trains are good for beginners. Iron Horse is also fine (a bit too many wagons for a beginner maybe). NARS 2.51 is also fine (a bit too many engines for a beginner maybe)
08:58:26  <Timberwolf> Road Hog and Iron Horse are excellent for a second game. "Now you've played it, try it with extra content."
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08:59:05  <argoneus79> so I got
08:59:12  <argoneus79> damn my client straight up broke
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08:59:39  <andythenorth> someone should fork Iron Horse
08:59:43  <andythenorth> and delete the wagons
08:59:47  <andythenorth> Iron Small Horse
08:59:48  <argoneus> well I see messages twice, anyway
08:59:58  * andythenorth is adding more wagons right now
09:00:03  <Timberwolf> The balance is still really nice compared to vanilla, rather than something like 2cc where it's (somewhat more realistically) "congratulations, you spent your entire starting loan on one engine".
09:00:10  <argoneus> american road replacement set, av8, egrvts, opengfx trees/airports/trains, FISH
09:00:15  <argoneus> does this sound fine for a first game
09:01:11  <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Wooden Horse?
09:01:28  <andythenorth> Trojan Horse
09:01:38  <argoneus> or is something too complex / missing something
09:01:51  <argoneus> i wanted to include chips/isr but they might get confused when they have so many stations that don't do anyting
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09:02:30  <argoneus3> fff
09:02:40  <argoneus3> what is the last message I sent?
09:04:30  <arikover`> andythenorth: "someone should fork Iron Horse and delete the wagons" Like Iron Wild Horse. And then make an add-on set called Iron Saddle.
09:04:47  <arikover`> andythenorth: with all the wagons in it.
09:05:15  <argoneus3> actually ill just upgrade my client it's long overdue anyway
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09:06:21  <andythenorth> could add all the trains I've drawn and then deleted
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09:06:47  <arikover`> andythenorth: Iron Ghost Horse
09:06:57  <andythenorth> Iron Dead Horse
09:06:58  <argoneus3> helo
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09:07:39  <argoneus3> finally
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09:08:31  <argoneus> so uh, does my list look fine to you guys?
09:08:38  <andythenorth> fine
09:08:45  <argoneus> thanks <3
09:08:55  <argoneus> I'll hook them up with FIRS and Iron Horse if they like it
09:13:38  <argoneus> hmm, what breakdowns do you guys like?
09:14:04  <argoneus> i guess reduced is a good compromise
09:14:06  <andythenorth> I turn them off, even though I know frosch disapproves
09:14:30  <FLHerne> ditto
09:14:33  <argoneus> i guess running/construction costs should also be low
09:14:44  <argoneus> I hate when a game gives me so many options I don't know what to pick
09:14:50  <FLHerne> Breakdowns are just not an interesting/useful mechanic
09:15:36  <FLHerne> You can't really prevent them, so they're an annoyance that doesn't add any interest
09:15:50  <argoneus> it at least makes you keep depots around
09:16:30  <andythenorth> breakdowns are kind of fine in original TTD where the only sensible strategy is point-to-point, 1 train per track
09:16:46  <andythenorth> they're a distraction if you have a complex network
09:20:44  <Timberwolf> My problem with them is the reliability vs. breakdown chance curve, followed by the inability to set reliability consistently per vehicle.
09:21:25  <Timberwolf> There's not really that much benefit in buying a 100% reliability vehicle and servicing it frequently, it'll still break down constantly.
09:22:21  <Timberwolf> I had a go at patching the breakdown chance table many years ago, but I think it ended with me giving up in a "why Chris, why?" fashion.
09:24:43  <_dp_> you can get the idea what settings are more popular here
09:24:55  <_dp_> espectially where defaults aren't exactly reasonable :p
09:25:32  <_dp_> like exclusive_rights, inflation, vehicle_breakdowns etc
09:28:16  <argoneus> oh nice
09:28:16  <argoneus> thanks
09:31:04  <argoneus> hmm, if I generate a scenario on my pc, does it save all the settings too?
09:31:09  <argoneus> or does the server need the cfg too
09:32:31  <_dp_> if you load save/scenario on server it takes settings from save
09:32:40  <_dp_> for a new game it takes from config
09:33:40  <argoneus> alllll the saves?
09:33:45  <argoneus> er, all the settings?
09:33:54  <argoneus> like literally everything
09:34:34  <_dp_> not literally, only gameplay settings are in save, ui settings aren't
09:34:46  <argoneus> oh right
09:35:04  <argoneus> I meant even stuff like construction costs or economy settings
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09:52:40  <_dp_> argoneus, yes, ofc, everything that affects the game
09:52:58  <_dp_> argoneus, otherwise it would just desync in mp if players didn't get all relevant settings from the same
09:53:00  <_dp_> *save
09:57:48  <argoneus> oki thanks
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10:08:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
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11:10:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
11:15:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
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11:30:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
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12:03:20  <andythenorth> yo
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13:46:48  <supermop_Home> hi
13:51:54  <argoneus> hmm, I seem to have an issue with my server
13:52:03  <argoneus> it seems to be a bit choppy, like the trains stop and go every few seconds
13:52:10  <argoneus> but resources aren't being used much
14:00:19  <_dp_> argoneus, what does fps command say?
14:01:11  <_dp_> also I assume you're not using that elitegame crap
14:04:49  <FLHerne> argoneus: Remember OTTD can only really use one thread for most stuff
14:04:59  <argoneus> elitegame?
14:05:15  <_dp_> some morons that sell crappy servers
14:05:21  <FLHerne> So if you have lots of CPU cores, average load might be low even if it's maxing out one
14:05:22  <argoneus> i use a kvm vps
14:06:50  <_dp_> one core of any modern cpu is more than enough for pretty much everything openttd
14:08:14  <argoneus> well it seems to be running fine now
14:08:14  <FLHerne> Eh, there are some servers that my laptop struggles to get 5fps on
14:08:41  <FLHerne> Some newgrf town sets seem particularly bad, no idea what they're doing
14:08:58  <LordAro> argoneus: if it's a shared VPS, some other thing on the host could've been overusing the CPU
14:09:19  <argoneus> yeah that might be it
14:09:22  <argoneus> because it's running smooth now
14:09:32  <_dp_> may also be network issues
14:09:35  <argoneus> and when I ran top it said usage was like 6%
14:09:48  <_dp_> need to see tickrate to tell one from another
14:09:57  <argoneus> it's 33.33fps now
14:10:15  <argoneus> and tick times are <0.1ms
14:10:17  <_dp_> argoneus, on server? then cpu is ok, must be network
14:10:28  <argoneus> yeah
14:10:33  <argoneus> well it's playable anyway
14:10:41  <argoneus> the server lagging luckily doesn't change anything for the player
14:12:24  <_dp_> well, I wouldn't call it a pleasant experience :p
14:22:25  <argoneus> how do I transition from making boring railroads to fun railways
14:22:37  <argoneus> instead of just 7 length trains with giant stations at a huge distance
14:22:40  <argoneus> make it more f u n
14:23:25  <argoneus> i see people build like 4 drive-through stations in a row and I don't get the purpose
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14:30:58  <_dp_> argoneus, that largely depends on what you find fun, some like coop-style, some goal servers, some weirdos do realism and some just play whatever multiplayer
14:32:10  <argoneus> i just want to build a nice busy network without jams but I'm not sure where to start
14:32:18  <argoneus> it feels like you need to plan ahead of time rather than expanding
14:33:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8199: CMake always export compile commands
14:33:21  <_dp_> argoneus, idk where to start but that usually ends somewhere around here xD
14:33:37  <argoneus> i guess to start with I should put larger gaps between my first double rail
14:33:53  <argoneus> like when I have a railroad where one goes there and one back, if I put a gap inbetween it should be easier to expand it
14:34:45  <argoneus> oh lord
14:34:46  <argoneus> those games
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15:14:34  <EER> argoneus: I like to bring all the primary products to a single factory / steel mill / whatever and all the while trying to upgrade my network to run smoothly while just adding more and more load. YMMV ;)
15:15:12  <EER> And then when I start transporting all the goods, I enjoy seeing the spike in operating profit
15:19:29  <frosch123> EER: *ad:* you should play with silicon valley gs :)
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16:15:30  <andythenorth> hello
16:17:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] Use GNUInstallDirs to allow install paths customisation
16:27:07  <andythenorth> hmm
16:27:26  <andythenorth> I should figure out why cmake build fails for me
16:27:27  <andythenorth> meh
16:27:30  <andythenorth> :)
16:29:13  <glx> there are some links in a comment on your issue
16:29:58  <andythenorth> I saw :)
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17:00:01  <Wolf01> So, second wave?
17:08:22  <andythenorth> I miss peter1138
17:09:31  <LordAro> @seen peter1138
17:09:31  <DorpsGek> LordAro: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <peter1138> I see I fucked everything up.
17:09:33  <LordAro> :/
17:09:47  <LordAro> andythenorth: have you been forgetting lunch?
17:09:49  <LordAro> i know i have
17:09:55  <Wolf01> hmmm
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17:11:48  <andythenorth> yup
17:21:44  <supermop_Home> finally did some screenprinting
17:22:25  <andythenorth> supermop_Home this new livery is quite boss, in a corporatey way
17:22:35  <andythenorth>
17:23:01  <supermop_Home> looks alright
17:23:11  <supermop_Home> a little unambitious maybe
17:27:05  <supermop_Home> I don't like the logo
17:27:20  <supermop_Home> very half-assed graphic design
17:27:43  <andythenorth> yeah
17:27:48  <andythenorth> colour weights are nice
17:28:10  <supermop_Home> like, what you might mockup if you needed to show a train in the background of a commercial, but the commercial was not about trains in any way, and you didn't want to use any real brand
17:29:40  <supermop_Home> loose the 'GC' or put it in a different typeface and i'd be a lot happier
17:29:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] Use GNUInstallDirs to allow install paths customisation
17:29:51  <supermop_Home> i like the overall colorblocking though
17:42:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
17:45:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:45:51  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
17:57:59  <argoneus> thanks EER
17:58:09  <argoneus> i suppose focusing on one place at a time is a good idea
17:58:21  <argoneus> lets me reuse a lot of railroad
18:40:53  <supermop_Home> gah almost 3 pm and i forgot lunch
18:42:04  <andythenorth> need peter1138 back
18:45:00  <FLHerne> :-/
18:51:00  <Wolf01> :(
19:52:21  <andythenorth> can you stalk him on strava LordAro ? :P
19:56:11  <Wolf01> I can stalk him on steam if you want
20:02:48  <LordAro> andythenorth: i can
20:03:02  <andythenorth> I mean, he's probably fine right?
20:03:11  <andythenorth> probably just had enough of us for a bit :P
20:03:19  <Wolf01> Yep
20:03:43  <glx> another NRT victim ;)
20:03:46  <andythenorth> oof
20:06:22  <LordAro> andythenorth: last rode his bike 2 weeks ago :/
20:11:45  <TrueBrain> wait, with CMake merged .. I can enable LGTM can I not .. :D
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20:22:42  <EER> frosch123: looks interesting! I'll check it out in a game over the weekend :D
20:37:15  <supermop_Home> andythenorth should i build an apartment-sized model railroad?
20:39:22  <andythenorth> are you married?
20:40:16  * andythenorth bedtime also
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20:41:52  <supermop_Home> i assume by that he meant 'you should not'
20:45:10  <FLHerne> No, go ahead and do it, the problem will solve itself ;-)
20:45:30  <supermop_Home> haha
20:46:23  <supermop_Home> i rather meant, a small layout, appropriate for an apartment, rather than a layout the size of the apartment
20:46:49  <supermop_Home> but why not go big
20:48:03  <frosch123> maybe make it a present for mother's day?
20:48:12  <TrueBrain> that was last month :o
20:49:11  <supermop_Home> also as we don't have children that might be a bit of an awkward gift!
20:49:26  <supermop_Home> "the model railroad is our child now"
20:49:27  <TrueBrain> SURPRISE HONEY
20:49:36  <frosch123> would it be less awkward with children?
20:50:44  <supermop_Home> hah
20:51:28  <supermop_Home> perhaps it needs to be T scale so as to be small enough to keep hidden
20:52:37  <supermop_Home> hmm Lambrusco or Sparkling Pinot Noir....?
20:53:31  <FLHerne> > i rather meant, a small layout, appropriate for an apartment, rather than a layout the size of the apartment
20:53:39  <FLHerne> I don't see the distinction
20:54:22  <FLHerne> It might still be too small, but you could always drill through the wall
20:54:41  <TrueBrain> or make it go outside through the windows and doors
20:54:43  <supermop_Home> sigh... the next door apartment had been vacant for 2 months
20:55:04  <supermop_Home> would have been perfect opprotunity
20:59:04  <TrueBrain>
20:59:09  <TrueBrain> only 180 alerts
20:59:22  <TrueBrain> of which 49 are of the same type :D
21:01:42  <TrueBrain> some are funny .. uint with ">= 0" comparison :D
21:03:47  <FLHerne> Oh, those elitegameservers spam entries have gone
21:04:03  <FLHerne> Did someone ask them to stop, or make them stop, or they just gave up?
21:04:36  <frosch123> maybe they temporarily crashed? :p
21:05:01  <TrueBrain> in general OpenTTD is pretty healthy, according to LGTM :P
21:05:02  <FLHerne> Hrm
21:05:18  <FLHerne> What does "A protocol error was detected and the connection was closed" mean?
21:05:18  <supermop_Home> maybe i should get a server
21:05:25  <FLHerne> I just got it connecting to Reddit S2
21:05:49  <TrueBrain> might not be a real surprise, giving a few people have fixed many of the issues found by coverity a few years ago :D
21:06:05  <frosch123> FLHerne: apparently that is fairly common on reddit
21:06:16  <frosch123> they also get people joining the wrong company and stuff
21:07:15  <FLHerne> Is there some logfile I should post?
21:07:45  <TrueBrain> "The result of this call to GetFirstOrder is not checked for null, but 85% of calls to GetFirstOrder check for null." <- that is cool :)
21:07:46  <FLHerne> Second time worked
21:08:06  <FLHerne> No, spoke too soon
21:08:23  <FLHerne> This time it created a company before I got disconnected
21:09:44  <FLHerne> Third time, I haven't been disconnected yet, but the game is virtually unresponsive
21:09:50  <FLHerne> Redraw time is in the seconds
21:11:11  <FLHerne> It got better enough that I could type `fps`
21:11:21  <FLHerne> Drawing rate is 1.76fps, apparently
21:11:29  <FLHerne> This laptop is slow, but not *that* slow
21:11:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
21:12:08  <FLHerne> Looking at a completely empty patch of grass
21:14:04  <glx> only 11 FIXME ?
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21:28:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne opened issue #8219: Inexplicably low redraw rate on multiplayer server
21:29:49  <milek7> FLHerne: it doesn't seem to be gone..
21:30:51  <FLHerne> Oh, they haven't bothered to update to 1.10.2
21:31:10  <FLHerne> So it's sorted near the bottom unless you're still using 1.10.1
21:33:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] erenes commented on issue #8219: Inexplicably low redraw rate on multiplayer server
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21:49:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8204: cmake: make install DESTDIR="something" ignores GLOBAL_DIR option
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22:53:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8217: WIP: Prepare: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
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