Log for #openttd on 13th June 2020:
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00:15:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8215: Industry build cost does not take into account land clear costs
00:25:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8208: Cleanup: More documentation fixes
00:27:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened pull request #8220: Add: A video driver that shows what areas of the screen are dirty.
00:27:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8208: Cleanup: More documentation fixes
00:32:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8220: Add: A video driver that shows what areas of the screen are dirty.
00:34:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8220: Add: A video driver that shows what areas of the screen are dirty.
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00:36:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8220: Add: A video driver that shows what areas of the screen are dirty.
00:41:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8208: Cleanup: More documentation fixes
00:53:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8220: Add: A video driver that shows what areas of the screen are dirty.
00:56:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] supermop commented on issue #8215: Industry build cost does not take into account land clear costs
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01:47:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
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06:32:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8208: Cleanup: More documentation fixes
06:36:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8215: Industry build cost does not take into account land clear costs
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08:06:57  <Samu> hi
08:17:50  <andythenorth> moin
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10:30:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8208: Cleanup: More documentation fixes
10:42:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Nik-mmzd commented on issue #8204: cmake: make install DESTDIR="something" ignores GLOBAL_DIR option
10:44:28  <Wolf01> andythenorth:
10:44:54  <andythenorth> hmm
10:44:58  <andythenorth> but I like hurting my fingers
10:45:34  <Wolf01> I just purchased 4 of them (2 for me and 2 for a friend)
10:46:15  <andythenorth> one for each hand? o_O
10:46:21  <Wolf01> Yes
10:55:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8208: Cleanup: More documentation fixes
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12:37:35  <supermop_Home> yo
12:38:11  <supermop_Home> Wolf01 i reall could have used that over the years
12:40:29  <supermop_Home> andythenorth i need this:
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12:53:49  <andythenorth> yes
12:53:51  <andythenorth> clearly
12:59:34  <supermop_Home> i can't believe they make switches at that scale
13:02:20  <andythenorth> I mean
13:02:30  <andythenorth> I guess we make integrated circuits and stuff :)
13:03:18  <supermop_Home> yes but there is a real demand and use for those
13:04:06  <supermop_Home> i am sure with the autofocus motors in smartphone cameras we are close to being able to make an HO scaled HO model train...
13:05:15  <supermop_Home> i need to get one of those jobs where you can mess about with the electron microscope, and make a model HST out of atoms
13:05:56  <supermop_Home> or what's the smallest molecule that can create Rail Blue pigment
13:07:04  <supermop_Home> regarding industries, i do find myself building lime kilns almost every steeltown game
13:14:08  <andythenorth> same
13:14:11  <andythenorth> never where I want them
13:14:17  <andythenorth> is it fine?
13:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause> don't they have a model miniature wonderland in miniature wonderland?
13:31:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
13:32:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
13:32:59  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: They do indeed.
13:33:42  <andythenorth> is that the one with the airport?
13:35:49  <michi_cc> Among other things, like ships in proper water.
14:07:23  <andythenorth> the airport is amazing
14:07:37  <andythenorth> incredible state machine
14:21:02  <andythenorth> found another 500 switches in Horse that can be procedures
14:21:05  <andythenorth> 500 -> 2
14:25:15  <FLHerne> Yay
14:25:41  <FLHerne> Perhaps nml needs a switch-to-procedure optimizer
14:26:08  <FLHerne> I think the problem would be there are no reserved temp vars?
14:31:16  <andythenorth> author should probably sort it out
14:31:35  <andythenorth> hard for nml to infer intent?
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16:15:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8194: Releases from version 1.10.1 no longer work on mid-2007 iMac
16:21:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8194: Releases from version 1.10.1 no longer work on mid-2007 iMac
16:24:09  <nielsm> if it's the change of compiler used for the CI that causes very old machines to crash with "bad instruction" I think it's okay to close the issue? with workaround "compile your own version of the game" (homebrew or whatever)
16:30:06  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we already discuss this illegal instruction thing a few days ago?
16:32:18  <nielsm> maybe? it wasn't documented in the ticket
16:33:47  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: EER was on IRC
16:34:00  <FLHerne> They found it while trying to reproduce the other macOS crash
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16:34:18  <FLHerne> EER still is on IRC, even :p
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19:34:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] erenes commented on issue #8194: Releases from version 1.10.1 no longer work on mid-2007 iMac
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19:41:00  <EER> nielsm: I'm even online right now :)
19:41:41  <EER> I don't mind if you close it with "compile your own version", but then it should be documented somewhere I think?\
19:42:45  <EER> actually with cmake and macports it's incredibly easy to compile it, it was a bit rough when I was testing older versions and had to compile with ye olde Makefile
19:47:09  <EER> btw, if someone has a mac reproducing the other crash, I'm happy to invest some time in debugging it. But so far all macs I've come across have been either too old or too new :)
19:47:45  <glx> yeah it's the main issue :)
19:47:47  <andythenorth> did you manage to compile with cmake?
19:47:50  <andythenorth> on mac?
19:47:54  <EER> yes
19:48:02  <glx> andythenorth: your system is broken :)
19:48:12  <EER> I used macports for dependencies, if that helps?
19:48:13  <andythenorth> I know I just need info from someone who's isn't
19:48:15  <andythenorth> oh
19:48:20  <andythenorth> yeah no never use macports
19:48:23  <andythenorth> hmm
19:48:37  <andythenorth> glx if you use the Apple build tools, they're *always* broken
19:48:45  <andythenorth> Apple break headers and stuff on every update
19:49:07  <EER> I already set up macports when I was actively developing for mac 10 years ago so that was the path of least resistance :)
19:49:16  <andythenorth> I learnt the hard way not to use it
19:49:31  <andythenorth> anyway, good that cmake does work
19:50:14  <andythenorth> maybe next week I try to fix it
19:51:02  <EER> I saw your report as well, but I didn't run into any of those errors, if you want me to check something on my environment let me know
19:51:21  <andythenorth> it's probably not macOS Catalina?
19:51:26  <EER> it's 10.11
19:51:34  <EER> so too old ;)
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19:51:41  <andythenorth> the days when things worked
19:52:03  <TrueBrain> it is?
19:52:04  <TrueBrain> hmm ..
19:52:11  <TrueBrain> checks his code .. nope :(
19:52:15  <EER> I can still remember the day I found how to start a terminal on the mac and be able to work with it like a normal computer ;-)
19:52:58  <andythenorth> they almost are computers
19:53:17  <EER> if you make the terminal full screen and squint you could be fooled
19:53:33  <andythenorth> you used to be able to run xwindows stuff
19:53:55  <EER> yes, on my version I think that's still possible :)
19:56:11  <TrueBrain> that moment you work in WSL, in a Python thingy .. you realise you want a GUI .. you realise that is not going to work in WSL .. and you find out your application really doesn't work on Windows Python .. "cross-platform" .. yeah, right :P
19:58:55  <frosch123> try something like flexx?
19:59:03  <frosch123> browsers are the better gui
19:59:29  <TrueBrain> hmm .. making a browser render stuff from a Python application .. that would be funky
19:59:37  <TrueBrain> Webserver + Websocket + Canvas
19:59:38  <TrueBrain> lol
20:00:08  <frosch123> isn't that what flexx does? or would you rather use pyqt with web renderer
20:00:12  <TrueBrain> anyway, in WSL you cannot do any graphic-something
20:00:23  <frosch123> not even ascii art?
20:00:23  <TrueBrain> and Windows doesn't support signals
20:00:34  <TrueBrain> well, yes, but that is not what I was talking about you silly :P
20:01:13  <frosch123> how long until ms switches to linux kernel?
20:01:19  <nielsm> I think MS has said they're going to make X11 work in WSL2, without a third party X server
20:01:27  <TrueBrain> WSL2 allows a lot more already, but ... yeah .. 2003 ...
20:01:37  <TrueBrain> (as in, update 2003)
20:01:48  <nielsm> nah it's called 2004
20:02:02  <nielsm> to reduce confusion between windows 10 2003 and windows server 2003
20:02:04  <nielsm> :D
20:02:05  <frosch123> 2004 has ottd 0.1 at least
20:02:11  <EER> MS is submitting some kernel patches for x support in wsl, but it's not out yet I think
20:02:39  <EER> I'm running wsl2, but no gui currently, although perhaps I could get it working with a windows x-server
20:03:12  <nielsm> right now you'll still have to run X across IP rather than unix sockets
20:03:19  <EER> I'm happy that I can finally run Docker and VMWare at the same time though in windows 10 2004, that was a really annoying acouple of years
20:03:22  <TrueBrain> EER: from what I read, you just have to install the right graphics driver ;)
20:04:06  <TrueBrain> (and you run the X-server in WSL2, from what I read)
20:04:19  <EER> I don't think that has been released yet, right?
20:04:27  <TrueBrain> trying to emulate sigalrm via threads is fun ... nottttt :)
20:04:43  <TrueBrain> the driver source has; no clue if they released it in a read-to-use form :)
20:07:38  <EER> Just tried on my wsl2, at least it doesn't work out of the box "Error: Can't open display:". For now I don't need GUI though, so I'll not dive too deep into it ;)
20:08:00  <TrueBrain> you do need to install an X-server, yes ;)
20:08:32  <TrueBrain> why is Python this annoying with different OSes :P darnit
20:11:21  <TrueBrain> trying to use Threads as a sigalrm .. is not going well :P Turns out you cannot "freeze" a thread in Python ..
20:21:33  <EER> turns out I already have a windows x server installed, but it's not working. I'm not in the mood to troubleshoot it too much this time of night ;)
20:22:00  <EER> TrueBrain: sleep does not do that? Or you mean from outside the thread?
20:22:48  <TrueBrain> well, an interrupt suspends the "main" thread in normal applications
20:22:49  <argoneus> what can I do if a player forgot their company password?
20:22:51  <TrueBrain> I need that behaviour
20:22:52  <argoneus> is there a way to reset it or such
20:22:56  <TrueBrain> so basically, I need Windows Fibers
20:23:08  <TrueBrain> but that is difficult in Python (without dragging in weird deps)
20:23:53  <EER> I can imagine you'll need to do some platformspecific code for that ;/
20:24:23  <TrueBrain> well, or the thing I wanted to avoid: use asyncio :)
20:24:26  <TrueBrain> well, not asyncio
20:24:27  <TrueBrain> generators
20:24:29  <TrueBrain> but what-ever :P
20:24:35  <TrueBrain> tomato tomato :)
20:25:17  <EER> argoneus: company_pw in the console
20:25:29  <argoneus> thank you
20:25:36  <EER> without _
20:25:48  <argoneus> it is with _
20:26:12  <EER> in the command list it shows without, but if it works it works ;-)
20:26:30  <EER> TrueBrain: gl ;)
20:26:37  <argoneus> thanks a lot
20:26:45  <argoneus> and from a more gameplay perspective
20:27:03  <argoneus> how bad of an idea is it to drop firs extreme on a beginner? it still has some straightforward stuff, right
20:27:14  <argoneus> that is just point a to point b
20:29:02  <FLHerne> The fun kind of bad idea
20:30:02  <andythenorth> 'oof'
20:30:18  <andythenorth> drop v4 Steeltown on them, using a grf I could send you :P
20:30:23  <argoneus> it's a bit of a dilemma where some of us have played the game before and don't really want to do vanilla and some are new
20:30:37  <argoneus> so ideally something that has something-for-everyone
20:30:56  <argoneus> what is steeltown
20:31:33  <andythenorth>
20:31:40  <andythenorth> that version is unreleased
20:31:54  <andythenorth> there's a much older version included in FIRS v3
20:31:59  <argoneus> that means they'd need to download it manually right
20:32:10  <argoneus> ideally something that's just on the newgrf repository :<
20:32:22  <andythenorth> I was 10% trolling
20:32:43  <argoneus> wew
20:32:47  <argoneus> but idk looking a extreme
20:32:49  <andythenorth> there is an older steeltown
20:32:50  <argoneus> it still has coal -> power plant
20:32:59  <argoneus> is that not good enough to get by
20:33:08  <andythenorth> it's pretty easy start yes
20:33:26  <andythenorth> Extreme isn't hard
20:33:28  <andythenorth> it's just silly
20:33:49  <_dp_> lol, firs extreme is definitely a noob economy :p
20:33:51  <argoneus> what is your favourite firs?
20:33:58  <_dp_> noone needs it but everyone still uses xD
20:33:58  <argoneus> economy
20:34:25  <_dp_> my favourite firs is vanilla :p
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20:34:59  <_dp_> same thing but doesn't need a grf xD
20:35:39  <argoneus> bleh
20:35:47  <argoneus> ill just hit them with firs and iron horse
20:40:54  <_dp_> argoneus, who are you going to play with? mb you should ask them?
20:42:53  <argoneus> it's hard to know what they'll want when i barely know what i want
20:42:59  <argoneus> for them that is
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20:47:49  <TrueBrain> w00p, with generators I have a "fake" interrupt in my code ... that took way too many lines of code .. well, happy "yield from" exists
20:48:53  <argoneus> well I asked them
20:48:55  <argoneus> they actually want NUTS
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21:05:36  <andythenorth> everyone wants NUTS
21:05:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP
21:07:14  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Instead of the economies, just have a boolean toggle for whether each industry should be enabled
21:07:23  <FLHerne> Then we can all have fun
21:07:26  <andythenorth> that might work
21:08:05  <FLHerne> (having cargo chains that make sense is at the user's discretion)
21:09:19  <andythenorth> well just have 32 parameters for every industry
21:09:27  <andythenorth> one per cargo
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21:52:53  <supermop_Home> 4 hours of marching in the sun and there is no beer in the fridge :(
21:54:09  <supermop_Home> i guess i can make a margarita
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22:08:41  <TrueBrain> <- who can guess the game? :D
22:09:07  <TrueBrain> colors are wrong btw; haven't loaded the palette yet
22:14:22  <supermop_Home> no idea
22:18:04  <TrueBrain> Let's see if I can get better images .. but not today :)
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22:40:08  <glx> well the colors don't help
22:42:15  <andythenorth> bomberman
22:42:34  <Eddi|zuHause> fortninte
22:42:39  <Eddi|zuHause> -n
22:43:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] Use GNUInstallDirs to allow install paths customisation
22:43:44  <andythenorth> the ghosts remind me of Snapper
22:44:01  <glx> ghosts ?
22:44:17  <andythenorth>
22:44:24  <andythenorth> bottom row is ghosts
22:45:43  <andythenorth> I recognise the troll face
22:45:53  <andythenorth> but I can't remember where from, very annoying :x
22:48:13  <_dp_> my first though was lode runner but looks more like simcity or smth
22:48:47  <Eddi|zuHause> can't seem to extract the raw image to load it into an editor
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