Log for #openttd on 22nd June 2020:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:48  *** keoz has joined #openttd
00:33:50  *** keoz has quit IRC
00:36:31  *** arikover has quit IRC
00:38:47  *** urdh has joined #openttd
01:48:50  *** Progman has quit IRC
02:13:29  *** Lejving has joined #openttd
02:21:17  *** D-HUND has joined #openttd
02:24:40  *** debdog has quit IRC
02:27:14  <supermop_Home> why is there no random rivers tool in scenario editor?
02:47:13  *** Lejving_ has joined #openttd
02:52:50  *** glx has quit IRC
02:52:55  *** Lejving has quit IRC
03:02:16  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
03:18:48  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
03:26:25  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
04:19:02  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
04:25:12  *** Laedek has quit IRC
04:29:14  *** EER has joined #openttd
04:32:07  *** keoz has joined #openttd
04:42:40  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
04:56:08  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
04:57:38  *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
05:04:31  *** Gadg8eer has joined #openttd
05:19:44  <Eddi|zuHause> because you didn't write one?
05:19:55  <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe i didn't... who knows :p
05:22:02  *** Laedek has joined #openttd
05:35:15  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
05:39:05  *** keoz has quit IRC
05:40:58  *** Gadg8eer has quit IRC
05:56:46  *** arikover has joined #openttd
06:02:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8233: Fix 63ccb36e: Incorrect string type for OrderBackup::name save/load
06:05:02  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
06:07:19  <arikover> hello, and good morning/afternoon/evening (timezone-friendly greetings)
06:13:36  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
06:20:20  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
07:06:38  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
07:34:37  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:59:08  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
08:39:29  *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
08:49:07  *** keoz has joined #openttd
08:51:42  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
09:16:36  *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:20:10  *** Progman has quit IRC
09:20:48  *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:21:18  *** cHawk- has quit IRC
09:29:06  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
09:40:36  *** iSoSyS has quit IRC
09:50:49  *** Samu has joined #openttd
10:05:16  <andythenorth> OpenTTD for ARM on macOS then? o_OO
10:09:44  <LordAro> easy enough
10:10:10  <LordAro> we already know it compiles to ARM easy enough (via android port if nothing else)
10:10:26  * andythenorth wonders what ARM Mac performance will be like
10:10:39  <andythenorth> full circle, my first computer was an Acorn A3000
10:12:33  *** cHawk has joined #openttd
10:17:38  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
10:21:38  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
11:13:34  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
11:42:52  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
11:43:06  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
11:50:44  *** gelignite has quit IRC
12:06:07  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
12:13:29  <andythenorth> OMG
12:13:44  <andythenorth> how will we attract new players and popularity now :(
12:17:03  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently with overly dramatic music that doesn't fit the setting
12:21:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8231: Fix #8230: Resolve ".." when opening files in .tar
12:21:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #8230: Cannot open the file when starting AI downloaded via online service
12:23:29  *** glx has joined #openttd
12:23:29  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
12:24:38  <FLHerne> andythenorth: It was fine on PPC Macs back in that day, nothing new
12:42:36  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
12:54:49  <supermop_Home> I need a way more more rivers than 'many'
12:56:01  <supermop_Home> also reloading the same heightmap multiple times gives some sort of non sensical rivers in the same place
13:35:10  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
13:49:44  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
14:14:53  <supermop_Home> andythenorth those miners seem to be just standing around doing a lot of nothing
14:23:47  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
14:34:33  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
14:39:58  <supermop_Home> i feel like coal and limestone, and potash should all be somewhat co-located?
14:40:20  <supermop_Home> iron ore would be in less sedimentary rock?
14:49:10  <supermop_Home> andythenorth:
14:50:47  <andythenorth> supermop_Home plausible, not sure it works for actually generating industries reliably in current model
14:50:50  <andythenorth> needs 'regions'
14:56:17  <supermop_Home> im placing by hand now
14:57:38  <supermop_Home> assuming ill put iron in mountains in one area, coal and the rest in hills or flat areas on the other side of the map?
14:59:07  <supermop_Home> according to this map there sure is a bunch of zinc in the US
15:00:25  <supermop_Home> andy: rocky ground grey in coal / limestone region, red in iron or cinnabar areas?
15:03:09  <andythenorth> ha
15:07:25  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
15:08:33  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
15:19:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6101: Hotkeys: using 2 byte language's letter in Hotkeys.cfg
15:22:51  <Timberwolf> supermop_Home: Full evil mode: coal/iron/cinnabar mines work like the tropical lumber mill. Enjoy rock planting.
15:25:54  <supermop_Home> coal mine: plant forest -> fast forward 100M years -> prospect mine
15:31:03  <supermop_Home> can industries check the flatness of their surrounding area?
15:31:15  <Timberwolf> "We have just designed a new dinosaur - would you be interested in a year's exclusive use of this reptile, so we can see how it performs before making it universally available?"
15:31:39  <supermop_Home> like pick open pit or shaft/drift based on terrain
15:34:13  <supermop_Home> or maybe having the different mines be different industries
15:41:48  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
15:43:48  <andythenorth> industries can check flatness
15:43:55  <andythenorth> it gets unwise quickly
15:49:58  *** cHawk has quit IRC
16:00:57  <supermop_Home> andythenorth not to allow / disallow, just to pick sprites?
16:01:53  <andythenorth> even worse, runs more often :)
16:04:04  <supermop_Home> hah
16:04:23  <supermop_Home> terraform and your open pit mine becomes a deep shaft?
16:08:39  <supermop_Home> after spending hours first fixing mountains so they don't have weird craters, and valleys so they flow down hill, then manually drawing in rivers, then placing towns (at bays on the coast, along rivers, not a city on mountain top)
16:08:57  <supermop_Home> then placing industries in sensible loctions
16:09:30  <supermop_Home> what are the chances i start the game an some newgrf thing is totally wrong
16:09:47  <supermop_Home> i'm betting on 1 in 3
16:10:11  *** keoz has quit IRC
16:15:16  <andythenorth> you probably have the wrong GS
16:15:31  <andythenorth> recently all my games I have forgotten that I have 10 Civil AI configured
16:15:39  <supermop_Home> haha
16:15:40  <andythenorth> this has...consequences
16:15:53  <andythenorth> and I never save and restart OpenTTD so the config changes never stick
16:15:57  <andythenorth> as I always crash it
16:16:42  <supermop_Home> mine is always computer restarts over night after a few days for some update
16:16:54  <LordAro> andythenorth: i've had similar issues
16:17:39  <andythenorth> it isn't something that should be fixed :)
16:17:43  <andythenorth> special class of user :P
16:18:33  <supermop_Home> i'd like a quick scenario editor
16:19:36  <supermop_Home> basically generates everything like you were starting a new game, then quickly check to delete any stupid industries or towns, then one button to immediate begin playing
16:22:11  <andythenorth> YES
16:22:15  <andythenorth> that
16:22:28  <andythenorth> it never occurred to me :)
16:22:41  <andythenorth> I usually generate 20-50 maps to get a new game
16:23:04  <andythenorth> some of the reasons are valid, eg. not enough coal mines or ore mines to be viable
16:23:19  <andythenorth> some are aesthetic (no port industries in tiny lakes)
16:23:22  <supermop_Home> that way you don't need to go down a rabbit hole of scenario editor time, nor do you have to save the scenario  then load it
16:23:27  <andythenorth> some are stupid (some town names are a jinx)
16:23:28  <supermop_Home> exactly
16:23:53  <supermop_Home> stupid / distracting towns/water/industries
16:24:09  <supermop_Home> just needs like 90 seconds to fix it
16:24:38  <andythenorth> 'add more coal mines' :P
16:25:00  <supermop_Home> random industries by type also would be nice
16:25:10  <andythenorth> oh SE has no 'add random of type x' :o
16:25:14  <andythenorth> has to be placed manually
16:25:17  <supermop_Home> yeah
16:25:37  <andythenorth> supermop_Home probably a GS should do all this? o_O
16:25:42  * andythenorth is a terrible person
16:25:57  <supermop_Home> you can do many random (all) industries, many random towns, many random trees
16:26:18  <supermop_Home> you can also do single random town
16:26:51  <supermop_Home> single random industry of selected type - similar to towns - would be nice
16:27:18  <supermop_Home> many random and perhaps single random river would be nice too
16:28:00  <supermop_Home> or just random only (primary / secondary) industry
16:28:02  <nielsm> nah the scenario editor should also have a feature to just jump right into the game
16:28:07  <nielsm> like disk menu -> "play scenario now"
16:28:10  <supermop_Home> yeah
16:28:16  <supermop_Home> that's what i'm saying
16:28:38  <nielsm> brb, reboot
16:28:49  <supermop_Home> its too much fuss now, so typically we just re-roll new games over and over again to fix these small problems
16:29:05  <nielsm> (microsoft should make some more effort to not require visual studio updates to need a system reboot)
16:29:11  *** nielsm has quit IRC
16:29:33  <supermop_Home> where as SE -> roll game -> make small fixes -> one click to play would be nice
16:29:33  <andythenorth> I mean, fixing FIRS ports would solve 25% of my problems
16:29:44  <andythenorth> and 25% of the problems are problems only I have :P
16:30:19  <supermop_Home> it's just one button
16:31:19  <andythenorth> hmm
16:31:28  <supermop_Home> (pony would be a button in disc menu for one-click load game into scenario editor)
16:31:29  <andythenorth> SE starts totally flat and empty though?
16:31:33  <supermop_Home> yes
16:31:38  <andythenorth> do I miss something? :)
16:31:41  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
16:32:07  <supermop_Home> you have to click landscape - random map to then roll the map
16:32:39  <nielsm> the number of clicks to reach the map generator is too high imo
16:32:46  <supermop_Home> yes
16:32:56  <andythenorth> supermop_Home no
16:33:09  <andythenorth> ~ newgame [cursor up] [enter]
16:33:46  <supermop_Home> should be option when you click scenario editor whether to start with flat land or generated landscape?
16:33:59  <supermop_Home> like who ever wants the flat land/
16:34:12  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
16:35:04  <dP> can anyone guess what graph this is?
16:35:48  <andythenorth> hedgehog population?
16:36:00  <supermop_Home> lunch time
16:38:00  <glx> [18:29:06] <nielsm> (microsoft should make some more effort to not require visual studio updates to need a system reboot) <-- this requirement seems random, sometimes it doesn't need it
16:38:10  <nielsm> yeah
16:38:29  <nielsm> it seems _some_ updates need to touch some files that apparently are too system-y
16:38:30  <glx> worse thing is "shutdown is not reboot"
16:39:59  <glx> they should do like windows update with "update and shutdown"
16:43:34  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
16:48:34  <frosch123> what is wrong with people, when they start translating the nfo specs into polish?
16:49:30  *** Flygon has quit IRC
16:49:42  <andythenorth> that is very diligent
16:56:23  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:03:30  *** keoz has joined #openttd
17:07:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a maintenance nightmare
17:15:30  *** cHawk has joined #openttd
17:18:21  *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd
17:19:04  <milek7> why wrong?
17:21:50  <frosch123> because the wording of the specs is difficult, things get lost in translation
17:22:15  <frosch123> but well, maybe they get around to translating a nml tutorial
17:22:36  <frosch123> translated tutorials are way more useful than translated references
17:42:36  <glx> nfo specs are already not very clear in english, it will be worse after translation
17:45:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:45:53  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:23:31  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
18:29:49  <nielsm> dP: so what did that graph show? some kind of return on investment?
18:31:04  <dP> nielsm, yeah, total profit if it's immediately reinvested
18:31:22  <dP> nielsm, in 1 year with 100k gbp start
18:31:44  <Wolf01> Nice, new transport fever 2 patch, I wonder how many mods will break
18:32:02  <nielsm> the sawtooth shape looks a bit suspicious to me
18:32:41  <dP> nielsm, it grows with distance until you get less trains at start
18:32:51  <dP> then it drops significantly
18:37:07  <supermop_Home> three blast furnaces should be enough for a 512x512 map?
18:39:17  <dP> hm, in the end, not on start, since it's measured after 1 year with distance increasing some trains won't be arriving in time and thus income drops
18:39:51  <dP> it also ignores topology completely so trains spawn on station and can easily go at the same time
18:42:21  *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
18:52:20  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
19:12:01  *** cHawk- has joined #openttd
19:18:06  *** cHawk has quit IRC
19:30:02  <dP> tried to smothen it by adding part of profit for still moving trains at the end of period:
19:32:48  <nielsm> so basically 250-350 tiles is the optimum distance to move stuff
19:34:17  <dP> nielsm, optimal distance to get money fast with sh125
19:36:15  <dP> added it to a profit tool if anyone wants to play with it:
19:36:35  <dP> called "200 gbp start" in chart type
19:40:10  <dP> what makes me confident that it works relatively correctly is that sh125 is the best engine for a 1 year time frame xD
19:42:36  <nielsm> not quite right:
19:43:44  <andythenorth> 'probably fine'
19:44:11  <nielsm> trying to change it over to use a matrix widget instead of 12 individual button controls
19:45:29  <nielsm> problem is right now the window is getting sized after the "plant trees of random type" button", making it wider than the ideal width of 4 tree buttons, and then the matrix widget draws 5 buttons per row even though they don't all fit
19:45:51  <nielsm> while in the original code with individual buttons, those buttons just got to stretch proportionally
19:46:22  <dP> can't you set max items in row for a matrix?
19:46:25  <nielsm> nope
19:46:33  <nielsm> the matrix is really weird in some ways
19:46:46  <nielsm> it also doesn't have a way to get the currently selected item, only set
19:53:17  <nielsm> also interesting:
19:57:34  <andythenorth> nielsm laying ground for newgrf trees? o_O
19:58:06  <nielsm> that's one of the ideas yes, at least make it slightly less pain if that ever happens
19:58:19  <nielsm> my immediate goal is really just to make some better tree tools for the editor
19:58:29  <andythenorth> I always just put it on 'random'
19:58:32  <andythenorth> silly me
19:58:45  <andythenorth> if we had arbitrary regions....
19:58:52  <andythenorth> we could have ForestTypes
19:59:56  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
20:03:25  <nielsm> once again I find that I want the GUI widget sizing to be two-stage in some way
20:03:50  <supermop_Home> i just want trees on shaded side of hills to be shaded
20:04:06  <supermop_Home> so you can actually see your pretty mountains
20:04:09  <nielsm> to support "widgets with fixed (minimum) size that force the containing window's size to a minimum" and also "widgets with dynamic size that need to scale in custom ways depending on the window's size"
20:04:31  <nielsm> I did a hack some time ago to make trees shaded
20:04:43  <nielsm> the code was scary
20:05:24  <nielsm>
20:09:50  <andythenorth> I'm sure you did screenshots
20:10:36  <andythenorth> meh, mac is idle, but running fans and draining battery
20:10:43  * andythenorth BRB, restarting
20:10:51  <nielsm> yeah I'm very sure I took screenshots of it, but can't find them in the irc logs
20:10:51  <andythenorth> 'this will never happen with ARM'
20:10:57  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
20:11:15  <nielsm> oh or maybe I should look at 2019 logs instead of 2018 ones
20:11:42  <nielsm>
20:12:10  <nielsm> giant screenshots:   without =   with =
20:14:54  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:17:41  <supermop_Home> looks beautiful for Appalachia / upstate NY
20:19:33  <nielsm> the results look great, the way I got them is not pretty to look at :)
20:23:24  <supermop_Home> anyone here have any experience with german modular toolboxes?
20:25:36  <nielsm> toolboxes as in boxes to store hand tools for various crafting in? (my answer is no regardless)
20:25:58  <supermop_Home> Festool/systainer vs sortimo/L-Boxx vs Auer
20:26:20  <supermop_Home> nielsm exactly. both for tools and for hardware
20:35:29  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
20:36:58  <glx> festool is expensive
20:37:14  <glx> that's the only thing I know :)
20:42:04  <supermop_Home> indeed
20:42:35  <supermop_Home> but you can buy the boxes in the system without the festool tools though
20:43:28  <supermop_Home> also hitachi and Makita also make cases compatible with that system. Bosch however uses the Sortimo L-Boxx system
20:51:54  <nielsm> hax!
20:56:56  <supermop_Home> of those festool is the most common / esteemed here, which makes me interested in the other two brands as a contrarian i guess
21:00:36  *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
21:00:37  <nielsm> improvements!
21:00:53  <nielsm> (never mind that my "regular" installation is 1.10.1 and I haven't got around to update it yet)
21:02:00  <nielsm> also also here:
21:07:17  <nielsm> also: time to make sure our mac builds are cross-arch once again
21:07:33  <nielsm> or make separate ones for intel and arm
21:09:10  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
21:09:34  <supermop_Home> the idea is only as many buttons as there are trees?
21:09:53  <nielsm> that's really just a side effect of the technical changes :)
21:10:06  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
21:10:09  <nielsm> it wasn't a goal for me
21:17:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements
21:26:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements
21:39:38  <nielsm> and gn
21:46:50  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
21:46:55  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
21:47:40  *** nielsm has quit IRC
21:57:29  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
21:57:44  *** Samu has quit IRC
22:08:30  *** keoz has quit IRC
22:12:40  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
22:35:28  *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
22:49:41  *** Feuersalamander has joined #openttd
22:51:41  *** grossing has quit IRC
22:57:36  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
22:59:39  *** arikover has quit IRC
23:07:10  *** Progman has quit IRC
23:07:27  *** gelignite has quit IRC
23:08:59  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
23:12:38  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
23:28:29  *** Feuersalamander is now known as grossing

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk