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00:10:04 *** gelignite has quit IRC 00:22:26 *** spnda has quit IRC 00:37:45 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:53:04 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:55:09 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:17:48 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:21:00 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:21:10 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 03:05:08 <supermop_Home> fireworks time 03:13:15 *** glx has quit IRC 06:02:38 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:28:04 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 06:46:15 *** EER has quit IRC 06:55:37 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 07:10:59 *** Gustavo6046 is now known as Guest1708 07:11:03 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 07:12:03 *** Guest1708 has quit IRC 07:24:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:28:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:00:59 <andythenorth> yo 08:02:52 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 08:06:05 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 08:12:55 *** arikover has joined #openttd 08:13:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:27:00 *** cHawk- has joined #openttd 08:37:42 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 08:53:24 *** b_jonas has quit IRC 10:02:29 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 11:18:04 *** keoz has joined #openttd 11:21:32 *** gelignite has quit IRC 11:35:00 <milek7> I bought 4K displays :D 11:46:30 <andythenorth> wow 11:46:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #8235: Fix for 'Huge screenshot' warning being shown incorrectly https://git.io/JfhM2 11:46:36 <andythenorth> is is it wicked? 11:48:53 <milek7> everything is tiny now 11:57:19 <andythenorth> I have a 3k laptop screen 11:57:35 <andythenorth> if I set it to native resolution everything is sooooo tiny 12:03:46 <milek7> looks nice.. 12:04:13 <milek7> but various dpi settings in various app will be annoying 12:07:32 <Flygon> I can't wait for 4K to be standard. 12:09:02 <andythenorth> on the mac, the move to hidpi (retina) is one of the things that absolutely killed OpenTTD performance 12:09:08 <andythenorth> not sure how it goes for other platforms 12:09:17 <andythenorth> it's just got to push a lot more pixels to the screen 12:12:54 <milek7> https://i.imgur.com/9BJjUBP.png 12:12:58 <milek7> https://i.imgur.com/pBsPnB3.png 12:14:42 <milek7> slower, but doesn't seem too bad 12:23:21 <milek7> I can't tell why, but something feels wrong 12:23:35 <milek7> pixel-perfect UI doesn't survive scaling very well 12:29:26 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Can you not turn it off? 12:29:35 <andythenorth> hidpi? 12:29:52 <andythenorth> only by buying a different computer 12:40:40 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 12:41:02 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 13:09:14 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:14:21 *** Laedek_ has joined #openttd 13:15:17 *** Compu has joined #openttd 13:21:20 *** Laedek has quit IRC 13:34:08 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:57:40 <milek7> eh, gtk doesn't support fractional scaling 14:06:48 <FLHerne> milek7: It sort of does https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/HiDPI#Fractional_Scaling 14:07:29 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Most HiDPI things have some form of pixel-doubling mode, either globally or per-application? 14:07:34 <FLHerne> I'm sure Macs used to 14:07:55 <andythenorth> still have to paint the number of pixels in the display 14:08:07 <andythenorth> maybe the display hardware can do that 14:08:18 <andythenorth> just switch on 4 at once 14:08:48 <milek7> 2x scale on gpu shader should be almost free 14:09:04 <andythenorth> mac laptops have absolutely crap gpus 14:09:05 <FLHerne> Yes 14:09:20 <FLHerne> Not that crap 14:10:08 <andythenorth> Radeon Pro 5500M 14:10:16 <andythenorth> if it's running on mains power 14:10:25 <andythenorth> otherwise some intel integrated thing 14:10:49 <andythenorth> playing games, it's seriously outclassed by my kids ipads 14:11:14 <andythenorth> the 2D graphics performance is also *horrible* 14:11:21 <andythenorth> lots of lag 14:11:30 <milek7> maybe it's just crap drivers 14:11:46 <andythenorth> crap hardware, crap drivers 14:11:49 <andythenorth> buggy OS 14:12:30 <andythenorth> apple world is not what it used to be 14:16:02 <FLHerne> > maybe it's just crap drivers < yes 14:16:27 <FLHerne> Phoronix has done a few benchmarks of macOS vs Windows vs Linux on the same hardware 14:16:46 <FLHerne> Windows and Linux ~equal, macOS ~20% slower 14:17:20 <FLHerne> Maybe with their own GPUs at some poin it'll be better? 14:17:38 <FLHerne> As you say, their mobile performance is impressive 14:23:08 <andythenorth> in some places the mac is fine 14:23:13 <andythenorth> in other places it's running on fumes 14:23:26 <andythenorth> it used to be a simpler product, and there was a period 2000-2010 when it was rock solid 14:24:02 <andythenorth> I suspect it's constant work to attract and retain very high calibre engineering staff for the mac 14:24:19 <andythenorth> and in places clown shoes appear 14:24:57 <andythenorth> they're not worth the current premium unless you're already invested in the ecosystem 14:25:16 <andythenorth> there was a time when I would unhesitatingly recommend macs to anyone who didn't want to deal with 'actual computer' 14:25:37 <andythenorth> now its more like 'potato / potato', it's all the same 14:40:32 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:20:20 *** glx has joined #openttd 15:20:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 15:43:56 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: apple was on top of the world when steve jobs came back 15:44:10 <snail_UES_> in 2001 I switched from windows 95 to Mac OS 9.2 and it was like from hell to heaven 15:44:15 <andythenorth> ha 15:44:27 <andythenorth> I switched when it was mac os 8 15:44:30 <andythenorth> and things only got better 15:44:42 <snail_UES_> now OS X is trying to retain windows users, and catalina forces us to abandon 32-bit apps 15:45:10 <andythenorth> it was funny that OS 8 and 9 crashed so much, that (1) restart time was used in the marketing (2) there was an actual 'restart' button 15:49:35 *** cHawk- has quit IRC 16:01:47 <FLHerne> System 7 was the greatest 16:01:57 <FLHerne> I still have my install CD for 7.6 somewhere 16:02:41 <FLHerne> I remember downgrading from 9 to 8, because the former sucked 16:06:45 <arikover> I remember the 2nd generation iMac "Snow" was bundled with 9.2 and the first OSX. 16:07:22 <arikover> With some sort of dual boot. 16:28:10 <andythenorth> I remember getting the OS X beta CD 16:37:08 *** Flygon has quit IRC 17:03:44 <supermop_Home> whatever ran on my dad's SE/30 was the greatest 17:09:40 <andythenorth> let's play tanks 17:09:43 * andythenorth plays tanks 17:13:41 <FLHerne> You should draw tanks for OTTD 17:13:53 <FLHerne> There are so many kinds of well wagon 17:14:13 <FLHerne> And military trains have all kinds of weird formations 17:19:25 *** Speeder_ has joined #openttd 17:26:30 *** Speeder__ has quit IRC 17:43:58 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:45:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Jfjeq 17:45:52 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:13:44 *** b_jonas has joined #openttd 18:21:15 <supermop_Home> yayoi kusama air maxes but only for sale in japan :( 18:38:18 *** tokai has joined #openttd 18:38:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 18:45:17 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 19:00:48 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:02:59 *** arikover has quit IRC 19:05:22 *** arikover has joined #openttd 19:10:08 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:23:34 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 19:37:52 <andythenorth> FLHerne reddit requested that 19:38:07 <andythenorth> can't be military themed though eh 19:42:12 <milek7> why? 19:43:33 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Objectives 19:45:39 <FLHerne> I think so long as the base game has that "fighter jet blows up a refinery" disaster it's hard to defend that as a real policy :p 19:47:34 *** cHawk- has joined #openttd 19:47:36 <milek7> I don't think these objectives are binding to newgrf content? 19:48:02 <milek7> anyway, hard to argue that tanks are unsuitable for children 19:48:05 <milek7> too many tank toys 19:49:31 <andythenorth> well I've stuck to the rule :) 19:49:42 <andythenorth> even though military themes don't bother me 19:49:48 <andythenorth> quite fascinated by war and stuff 19:55:03 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 20:12:14 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 20:13:37 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:41:34 *** otetede has joined #openttd 20:42:26 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:42:28 *** otetede has quit IRC 20:48:07 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:51:35 *** cHawk_ has joined #openttd 20:57:42 *** cHawk- has quit IRC 21:11:28 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 21:22:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 21:25:30 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:00:18 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 22:00:31 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:08:32 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:10:40 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:17:36 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:21:05 *** keoz has quit IRC 22:43:23 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:52:13 <Speeder_> what reddit requested? 22:52:26 <Speeder_> honestly I don't understand why there is no military stuff in openttd 22:52:27 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:53:00 <Speeder_> the reasoning I see on that page is literally, dangerous, according to some research. 23:05:39 *** arikover has quit IRC 23:09:10 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 23:09:18 <supermop_Home> Speeder_part of it is the spirit of the game 23:10:09 <supermop_Home> part of it, is that there is no way to do any war related gameplay, so military transport is pretty meaningless 23:11:12 <supermop_Home> and at the level of abstraction that Openttd gameplay is at, materiel would really just be mostly 'Goods' or equivalent 23:12:09 <supermop_Home> so it kind of takes of the air of trying to force martial themes into a space where they are kind of alien 23:13:07 <Speeder_> what I was referring too is the "ages" thing 23:13:22 <Speeder_> the spirit of the game is avoid war themes to make it fit all ages 23:13:27 <supermop_Home> yeah 23:13:31 <supermop_Home> that's part of it 23:13:40 <Speeder_> problem is... there are strong suspicions this is why wars are cyclic 23:14:26 <Speeder_> adults, that didn't saw war personally, know it is bad because the generation that did saw war tells them, but they don't tell their own kids, kinda like OpenTTD spirit document. 23:15:09 <Speeder_> when the veterans all are dead, the kids that were raised not knowing about war, think war is good idea to make changes. 23:15:13 <Speeder_> and then start a real war. 23:15:14 <supermop_Home> personally i find the need to cram military stuff into an abstract world that has no war or even nations, is more disturbing that military stuff in a game about war 23:15:16 <Speeder_> and cycle repeats. 23:16:11 <supermop_Home> Speeder_ most of the people who decide to make war at the national level were certainly alive for at least one previous war 23:16:47 <Speeder_> supermop_Home, I am not talking about USA style of attacking random countries far away 23:16:57 <Speeder_> I am talking about major wars, civil wars, etc... 23:17:42 <Speeder_> anyway what I just said is the theory in a field named "cliodynamics" 23:18:24 <Speeder_> for example in USA internal violence spikes every 50 years or so. with one of those peaks being the civil war. 23:18:47 <supermop_Home> i'm not sure what civil war was started in a country that had no living memory of violent conflict 23:22:34 <supermop_Home> also i do not need to have been in a war to know that i do not prefer force of arms as means of enacting policy 23:23:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:24:07 <Speeder_> supermop_Home, how I explain it... when there is mounting unrest, people that lived through a civil war feel inclined to fix the situation harder without conflict, but people that didn't see a civil war might feel tempted to use violence, for example with riots or political assassination. 23:24:12 <Speeder_> then things escalate from there. 23:24:53 <supermop_Home> also most people in my grandparents generation who fought in the war did not really talk about it until very late in life - long after their children or even grandchildren were adults 23:25:41 <supermop_Home> i was already in my mid 20s by the time my grandpa was ready to talk about his time in the Philippines 23:25:53 <Speeder_> supermop_Home, you think if there was unrest and young people were calling for war, the silent veterans wouldn't tell them to cut the crap? 23:26:10 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 23:26:29 <supermop_Home> i don't know, I've never lived somewhere where young people have called for war 23:26:33 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 23:26:39 <supermop_Home> only where old people have called for war 23:27:45 <Speeder_> supermop_Home, I assume you live in a somewhat advanced country. 23:27:52 <supermop_Home> and of my peers who did go to war, some have become more conservative, and some more liberal after. 23:27:54 <Speeder_> in economic sens,e that is. 23:27:59 <supermop_Home> not exactly 23:28:33 <Speeder_> supermop_Home, where are you from, if you don't mind me asking? 23:29:03 <supermop_Home> though none of my acquaintances who did go to war thought it was a good idea after they came home (not counting the one who didn't come home) 23:30:00 <supermop_Home> a place that has been to war in each of the past 8 decades 23:30:22 <supermop_Home> im going to go grab some ice cream 23:58:16 <Speeder_> nearby_station_name my nml doesn't compile because of that 23:58:20 <Speeder_> why nearby_station_name is not valid? 23:58:32 <Speeder_> nevermind 23:58:44 <Speeder_> it was missing ;