Log for #openttd on 6th August 2020:
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12:38:27  <andythenorth> yo
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12:46:20  <FLHerne> oy
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12:50:00  <andythenorth> electric gronk for 2020? o_O
12:50:14  <andythenorth>
12:50:45  <andythenorth> I do wonder about this hybrid madness
12:50:48  <andythenorth> there's a few of these
12:50:58  <andythenorth> self-charging hybrid train prototypes
12:51:13  <andythenorth> otherwise known as 'diesel-electric, with extra weight and complications'
12:52:07  <andythenorth> here's another
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12:53:26  <andythenorth> "The locomotive is self-contained, with onboard battery charging coming from a low-emission diesel engine (so they don’t need plugging in at night!)."
12:54:12  <FLHerne> Eh, for a shunter I can see it
12:54:17  <andythenorth> not really seeing the benefit, grid power is cheaper than diesel, and requires less frequent bunkerage
12:54:32  <FLHerne> But yes, plugging it in seems like the obvious next step
12:54:36  <andythenorth> I definitely want to buy a PHEV vehicle, because of range anxiety
12:54:45  <andythenorth> why make a virtue of not being able to plug it in :P
12:54:53  <andythenorth> so much fear of electric cables :P
12:54:55  <FLHerne> Not enough power sockets in random railway yards?
12:56:51  <Timberwolf> I already have to plug in my normal diesel car due to lack of use. An electric one will be an easy adaptation.
12:58:22  <andythenorth> Timberwolf, unrelated what date is your last train? o_O
12:58:41  <Timberwolf> 2019, but there's quite a big gap.
12:58:50  <Timberwolf> I was at Stratford earlier today, seeing things I wanted to draw :)
13:00:06  <Timberwolf> Also wondering if anyone will make the horror of an electric car that sounds like a Desiro.
13:03:28  <andythenorth> when I started Horse around 2014 it was quite hard to find much of interest for the 2014 era
13:03:55  <andythenorth> no rebuilt 73/9, no rebuilt 56, not many new units, no 68, no 88,
13:04:14  <andythenorth> no random new shunters
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13:20:05  <andythenorth> so Gronk -> this thing
13:23:20  <CornsMcGowan[m]> its so short
13:23:24  <CornsMcGowan[m]> nice visibility though
13:25:29  <andythenorth> this one's even shorter
13:26:24  <Timberwolf> That has an oddly Thunderbirds vibe to it.
13:26:27  <andythenorth> the CB40 one sounds so odd
13:26:33  <andythenorth> really grunty for a battery engine
13:26:42  <Timberwolf> I think it's partly the sound, partly the size and lowness.
13:26:58  <andythenorth> maybe the mic is weird on that video
13:27:17  <andythenorth> sounds amazing though
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13:37:45  <CornsMcGowan[m]> its so clean too
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13:54:16  <CornsMcGowan[m]> re: the pathfinding route builders, should the road planner allow/forbid level crossings? or make it an option for the user
13:55:11  <CornsMcGowan[m]> also: is there a setting that forbids level crossings on other company tracks?
13:56:37  <_dp_> no such setting but would be nice to have
13:58:07  <CornsMcGowan[m]> isn't it only a detriment to the road-builder as trains can destroy rvs
13:58:22  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh but it prevents the rail-company from building signals or more track pieces
14:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause> you can have signals under bridges
14:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise to the question: it should be an option
14:25:38  <FLHerne> Timberwolf: Also, it's brightly-coloured and has a large single-digit number on the side
14:26:55  <FLHerne> Anyway, that's not *really* low
14:29:05  <Timberwolf> I think what's really making me think Thunderbirds is all those tracking shots of it moving slowly past with appropriate engine noises.
14:30:45  <FLHerne> This is really low
14:31:17  <Timberwolf> Just needs an in-cab shot with some puppets, then a close up to a real person's hand pressing a button which inexplicably makes it attempt to travel at top speed for the next 40 miles, with no way to cancel or back out.
14:32:35  <FLHerne> Sometimes because it's been sabotaged as part of some illogical plot?
14:39:58  <andythenorth> FLHerne I think there aren't enough pixels to draw that one low enough :P
14:41:14  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Now we know why Pikka started using EZ
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18:11:54  <andythenorth> well
18:12:21  <andythenorth> I have played this game now for 121 years, about 3 weeks of RL
18:15:18  <frosch123> in a pikka set you would approach new generation steam engines
18:19:32  <andythenorth> I am considering daylength :P
18:21:03  <andythenorth> does GS have buttons yet? :P
18:21:24  <nielsm> master has yes
18:21:40  <andythenorth> so that, plus vehicle availability
18:21:47  <andythenorth> means we could write a research GS
18:21:57  <andythenorth> 'push button to research new tech'
18:22:01  <frosch123> some buttons were available since 1.2
18:22:04  <andythenorth> 'researching: 10 years left'
18:23:17  <nielsm> yeah the question popups
18:23:20  <nielsm> right?
18:24:46  <andythenorth> the new ones in the story book seem most appropriate to research?
18:25:04  * _dp_ suspects some of those 1.2  buttons were never ever used by anyone
18:25:09  <andythenorth> assuming that the goal is to let player decide when to advance tech level
18:25:48  <frosch123> _dp_: zuu used them in the tutorial and other stuff
18:26:13  <andythenorth> my ideas isn't to replicate the ways some games offer strategy choices, e.g. "Do you want to research ships or aeroplanes"
18:26:26  <andythenorth> more just a daylength faker: 'advance tech level'
18:26:52  <frosch123> research transport of cassava?
18:26:55  <andythenorth> then it makes available new vehicles for some date range
18:27:07  <andythenorth> frosch123 researching by transport type is more interesting narratively :D
18:27:15  <andythenorth> I suspect it can't be done :)
18:28:05  <frosch123> to advance train research have 100 ships run at profit
18:28:39  <frosch123> to advance train research, replace your most profitable train route with trucks
18:29:01  <andythenorth> I have this circle train in my loft
18:29:07  <andythenorth> and sometimes I run the 1970s trains
18:29:11  <andythenorth> and sometimes I run the 1990s trains
18:29:18  <andythenorth> I just want that for OpenTTD :P
18:29:30  <andythenorth> Pikka has sort of done it with a parameter in UKRS 3
18:30:24  <andythenorth> I'd like to make a miniature train foamer world until I'm bored of it, then press upgrade
18:31:22  <andythenorth> also I think that train in the picture needs more power
18:32:01  <andythenorth> it's only about 22,000 hp IRL
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18:45:55  <MrSan> hi all. havea question about openGFX. are the compiled file OS indenpendent?
18:46:06  <nielsm> yes
18:46:10  <MrSan> perfect
18:46:29  <MrSan> is ther anywhere a "precompiled" release can be downloaded?
18:46:39  <MrSan> with like wget?
18:46:41  <nielsm> all openttd content is both os and architecture independent
18:47:05  <b_jonas> yes, I think there's a precompiled version on the server
18:47:06  <FLHerne> MrSan:
18:47:14  <b_jonas> ah, FLHerne is faster
18:47:39  <MrSan> thanks :)
18:47:48  <MrSan> last question what is different between any and all?
18:48:13  <nielsm> nothing
18:48:31  <nielsm> the dropdown box filters on os/arch usually, but there is only one which is "any"
18:48:40  <nielsm> "all" shows all available packages for the version
18:48:46  <MrSan> ah
18:48:53  <FLHerne> Hm, file a wobsite bug :p
18:49:08  <FLHerne> The dropdown might as well not exist in that case
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18:49:46  <MrSan> i agree was a bit confusing
18:50:09  <MrSan> but atleast any and all has the same meaning :) (any os and All os :))
18:51:55  <MrSan> ok sorry guys 2 more question : i dont really understand why a dedicated need openGFX, but will a dedicated also need openSFX? and they are also os independent? (like i can use the same files on wihdows and linux)
18:52:09  <nielsm> oh btw, if you're making any kind of automated deployment or install system, make sure to use the generic CDN link, and not any redirect you get from it
18:52:25  <nielsm> there's also a way to get manifest files to programmatically discover the available downloads
18:52:30  <MrSan> ofc nielsm. doing a Yocto image (if you know wat that is)
18:52:40  <frosch123> MrSan: you can use "NoSFX"
18:52:52  <MrSan> frosch123:  can i use NoGFX also?
18:53:10  <frosch123> there also used to be a NoGFX set, but i do not know any working link
18:53:46  <frosch123> no_sound and no_music are bundled with ottd
18:53:52  <frosch123> nogfx is more complicated
18:54:27  <nielsm> nogfx actually still needs the graphics, just blank sprites instead
18:54:41  <MrSan> ah. to bad its like that. as for a dedicated server i dont see any need for sprites
18:55:10  <frosch123> the problem is that for reasons the graphics files also contain other data, not just sprites
18:55:17  <MrSan> ok
18:55:30  <b_jonas> yeah, game behavior like what each train does
18:55:44  <nielsm> no that's not part of the baseset
18:56:02  <nielsm> the base vehicles and cargo types and industries are hardcoded in the game code
18:56:10  <b_jonas> the vehicles too? I see
18:56:35  <nielsm> it's only NewGRF files that contain game data in that way, baseset files are GRF files but not NewGRF files
18:56:44  <b_jonas> ok
18:57:59  <MrSan> well il just have to got from a 501 mb os to 3gig due to openGFX :(
18:58:04  <nielsm> (and that's not entirely true either, since the baseset does need to contain some newgrf stuff to add graphics for the various extra features ottd has over the original game and that graphics is defined in a different way from the "raw" sprite data in "old" grf files)
18:58:04  <MrSan> thanks all for your help
18:58:25  <frosch123> since when is ogfx 3gig :p
18:58:43  <b_jonas> MrSan: 3 gigabytes? no way
18:58:53  <MrSan> i looked at the zip file
18:59:03  <frosch123> it's 9 mb
18:59:03  <MrSan> oh waiiiit that
18:59:23  <frosch123> no, that's the sources. it's 3
18:59:45  <b_jonas> you could get 3 gigabytes if you download a lot of NewGRF with high zoom level graphics
18:59:56  <b_jonas> but even then it's hard
19:00:16  <MrSan> according to content in zip its 5,07 mb :)
19:00:32  <MrSan> b_jonas: i just want a dedicated server :)
19:00:46  <MrSan> on a rpi 4 with optimized os
19:01:45  <MrSan> so i should not UNPACK the zip?
19:02:32  <frosch123> unpack the zip
19:02:37  <frosch123> do not untar the tar
19:04:31  <MrSan> well the one i get from the home page is a zip
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19:04:53  <FLHerne> MrSan: It's a zip with a tar in it
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19:09:21  <MrSan> FLHerne: hmm ok.
19:09:47  <MrSan> FLHerne:  so i only need to place the tar in /usr/share/games/openttd/baseset/?
19:09:52  <FLHerne> Yes
19:10:02  <MrSan> perfect thanks:)
19:10:32  <MrSan> lets hope this works. 8 hour clean compile of OS. and openttd
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