Log for #openttd on 9th August 2020:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:44:18  <Gustavo6046> Receiving any news crashes the game.
00:44:26  <Gustavo6046> Both the version in the AUR and the latest version in git.
00:45:08  <Gustavo6046> I built using clang. Tested with -Ofast -march=native -flto.
00:45:08  <Gustavo6046> And libc++
00:45:08  <Gustavo6046> Haven't tested without march yet
00:45:08  <Gustavo6046> I also don't think it was libc++, as iirc previous builds had libstdc++.
00:47:14  <Gustavo6046> With news I mean, crashing two trains causes a game crash, because of the newspaper thing.
00:47:14  <Gustavo6046> I have no idea why that is either.
00:49:27  <Gustavo6046> crash.log
00:49:55  <Gustavo6046> base64 of crash.sav
00:58:16  <Gustavo6046> am I forgetting something?
01:04:15  <Gustavo6046> signal SIGILL: illegal instruction operand
01:42:07  *** keoz has quit IRC
01:53:44  <Eddi|zuHause> stack trace isn't of much use without symbols
01:54:24  <Eddi|zuHause> oh right, there are symbols
01:54:47  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like it crashed in the crash handler?
01:55:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't make a lot of sense
01:55:56  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, "illegal instruction" sounds more like a compiler bug
02:23:21  *** D-HUND has joined #openttd
02:26:41  *** debdog has quit IRC
02:32:10  <Gustavo6046> It did work when built with gcc and -g
02:32:10  <Gustavo6046> I'll try gcc and -Ofast -march=native (and -flto in the linker)
02:32:22  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
02:41:46  <Gustavo6046> Ah
02:41:47  <Gustavo6046> It works with that too
02:42:03  <Gustavo6046> Eddi|zuHause: it seems the issue is clang, or maybe one of its optimizations, or maybe libc++.
02:52:49  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
02:52:59  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
06:30:31  <LordAro> Gustavo6046: sounds very like a bug that we already fixed
06:33:24  *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC
06:33:24  *** planetmaker has quit IRC
06:33:24  *** tneo has quit IRC
06:33:24  *** Hazzard has quit IRC
06:33:24  *** avdg has quit IRC
06:33:24  *** Yexo has quit IRC
06:33:24  <LordAro> though i'm thinking of #8176, which is in 1.10.2
08:56:45  *** Webster has joined #openttd
08:56:57  *** avdg has joined #openttd
08:57:27  *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
08:57:27  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
08:57:57  *** tneo has joined #openttd
08:58:08  *** Hazzard has joined #openttd
08:58:42  *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
08:59:18  *** Osai has quit IRC
08:59:18  *** Ammler has quit IRC
08:59:18  *** Hirundo has quit IRC
08:59:27  *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd
08:59:28  *** Yexo has joined #openttd
09:02:09  *** SmatZ has quit IRC
09:02:09  *** |Terkhen| has quit IRC
09:02:09  *** V4530000 has quit IRC
09:02:11  *** fonsinchen has quit IRC
09:02:57  *** Ammler has joined #openttd
09:02:57  *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
09:03:27  *** Osai has joined #openttd
09:04:27  *** SmatZ has joined #openttd
09:04:27  *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
09:04:28  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Terkhen
09:04:57  *** V453000 has joined #openttd
09:04:58  *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
09:08:02  *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
09:19:01  *** iSoSyS has quit IRC
09:24:23  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
09:26:03  <TrueBrain> thread 'main' panicked at 'attempt to subtract with overflow', src/ <- right, and this is why I called it an unsigned, as you can overflow .. lolz @ Rust .. it is cute :)
09:28:38  *** Samu has joined #openttd
09:29:20  *** tokai has joined #openttd
09:29:21  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
09:31:55  <nielsm> hmm, something that's been on my mind recently
09:32:27  <nielsm> if a NewGRF is licensed under a CC-NoDerivatives license, can it be featured in a gameplay video?
09:32:45  <TrueBrain> doesn't fair use come into play there?
09:33:03  <nielsm> does displaying extracts of the graphics in the NewGRF together with other graphics from other sources, in a player-controlled form, constitute a derivative work?
09:33:11  <nielsm> fair use doesn't exist everywhere in the world
09:33:30  <TrueBrain> you see this with normal games ofc, and that lets play can exist on youtube
09:33:38  <TrueBrain> but, IANAL :)
09:33:50  <nielsm> danish law does not have that concept, it has exceptions for review, criticism and satire
09:35:41  <nielsm> yes and then you have some companies like nintendo who strongly claim their right to any expression of the game content, and will force any videos of their games being played to be monetised to their end and nothing to the video creator
09:36:18  *** tokai|noir has quit IRC
09:36:48  <nielsm> and similar, if you apply a CC-NonCommercial license, I think that also disallows anyone from doing monetised videos/streams featuring the content
09:42:31  <michi_cc> The CC FAQ ( is helpfully unhelpful with this.
09:42:36  <nielsm> yeah
09:42:46  <nielsm> I did scour it just now
09:42:53  <michi_cc> "It depends. Go away."
09:52:14  <andythenorth> "Many things only get decided in case law.  Try it, see what happens."
09:52:20  <andythenorth> Law isn't an algorithm.
09:52:25  <nielsm> yeah...
09:52:37  <andythenorth> Programmers often struggle with law, they confuse it with a spec.
09:53:03  <andythenorth> They are both codes, but very different in their runtimes.
09:53:09  <nielsm> I'm drafting a post on it for the licensing FAQ thread on the forum
09:53:25  <nielsm>  is this completely out there?
09:57:09  <andythenorth> I suspect IRL the whole thing is a no-op
09:57:30  <andythenorth> might be able to use it to get channels de-monetised
09:57:36  <andythenorth> but eh
09:58:49  <nielsm> yeah apparently there are trolls out there who will use any excuse to try to get others' content taken down or demonetised
09:59:03  <nielsm> even when there's nothing in it for them bu "lulz"
10:05:45  <Samu> i am unable to install vcpkg
10:06:09  <Samu> CMake projects should use: "-DCMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE=D:/OpenTTD/vcpkg/scripts/buildsystems/vcpkg.cmake"
10:06:14  <Samu> where do i do this
10:09:52  <nielsm> I didn't need to configure that myself, I just ran the "vcpkg integrate" command (or whatever it's called)
10:10:04  <Samu> nevermind, it suddenly started working
10:16:02  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
10:16:05  <Samu> im on a new rig!
10:16:14  <Samu> building openttd is so fast now
10:16:24  <nielsm> congrats :)
10:19:32  <Samu> 26 seconds
10:21:50  <Samu> 38 seconds release build
10:26:19  <Samu> im ready to code again
10:27:12  <Samu> my good old system was having some issues with the screen going black
10:27:33  <Samu> i thought I had that sorted out
10:29:22  <Samu> im also surprised my windows license is still valid
10:30:18  <Samu> it was bound to a microsoft account, and it detected hardware upgrade or so, and it transferred the license from my old to this
10:30:55  <Samu> very happy I didn't have to waste €100 for windows
10:35:41  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
10:52:36  *** Progman has quit IRC
11:18:10  *** gelignite has quit IRC
11:18:41  *** nielsm has quit IRC
11:32:47  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
12:03:41  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
12:38:14  *** DecapitatedO has quit IRC
12:43:54  <Samu> reviving
12:46:20  <Samu> there is a "not really a bug" with the start_tile and end_tile being assigned to the wrong tiles
12:46:40  <Samu> the end_tile is actually the start tile for the case of aqueduct
12:47:09  <Samu> but it doesn't break functionality
12:51:20  <Samu> this line conflicts with the description of
12:52:01  <Samu> instead of DoCommandP(tile, GetOtherAqueductEnd(tile),
12:52:11  <Samu> should be DoCommandP(GetOtherAqueductEnd(tile), tile,
13:50:29  *** Webster has joined #openttd
13:50:46  <b_jonas> I know they load/unload much smaller if the station is shorter than the train
13:51:10  *** V453000 has joined #openttd
13:51:40  *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd
13:51:40  *** avdg has joined #openttd
13:52:38  *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
13:52:40  *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
13:53:07  *** planetmaker is now known as Guest5399
13:53:12  *** tneo has joined #openttd
13:53:38  *** Hirundo has joined #openttd
13:54:08  *** Ammler has joined #openttd
13:54:09  *** Osai has joined #openttd
13:54:24  *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttd
14:02:16  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
14:21:33  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
14:24:49  <glx> b_jonas: load and unload speed are the same,
14:27:39  <b_jonas> glx: thank you
14:28:09  <b_jonas> then the steel loading station was more congested than the unloading probably because the tracks around it were worse because there's less space
14:28:22  <b_jonas> that was before the rebuild that is
14:30:23  <glx> well loading wagons may be slower than unloading if they have different types and specs
14:36:14  <b_jonas> In FIRS, if I wanted to transport goods to a port but there are also houses close to the port, is there some way to make sure that the goods go to the port (which produces output) rather than to the houses?
14:36:38  <b_jonas> this doesn't seem to be a problem in this game, where I'm transporting to only one port, which is far enough from towns
14:36:46  <b_jonas> but it could come up in other games
14:37:15  <glx> no you can't really decide, the only way is to have no houses in the station catching area
14:37:36  <b_jonas> same question if I transport food or passengers and want it to go to the hotel (which produces passengers) instead of a general store or houses
14:37:42  <b_jonas> glx: thanks
14:40:59  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
14:50:46  <frosch123> i would claim, if there is an industry, all cargo goes to it
14:50:59  <frosch123> the town is always the last one to consume it, when noone else wants it
14:51:20  <andythenorth> I have never seen houses parasitically consume cargo
14:51:27  <andythenorth> but the code will know :)
14:51:43  <andythenorth> really the game is best played without towns, they just get in the way :)
14:54:10  <b_jonas> andythenorth: sometimes it's good without towns, like in this game, but in some games I want a large passenger network, and they can bring money
14:56:20  *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
14:58:36  <_dp_> yeah, it should always go to the industry first
14:59:51  *** iSoSyS has quit IRC
15:16:40  <_dp_> that ... didn't quite go as expected xD
15:27:17  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
15:27:40  <glx> someone corrupted memory somewhere ?
15:27:48  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
15:28:23  <glx> or it is just a bug in your newgrf
15:28:28  <_dp_> nah, just banging my head on 32bpp blitter
15:29:53  <_dp_> trying to make it do recolors for 32bpp sprites
15:29:56  <_dp_> like this
16:06:29  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
16:13:13  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
16:44:04  *** Flygon has quit IRC
16:50:46  *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
16:53:45  *** andythen_ has joined #openttd
16:54:21  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
16:54:41  <Eddi|zuHause> can't we have that also in 8bpp? we have a "shadow" recolouring that makes everything a bit darker, we just need variants of that?
16:56:40  <Samu> @calc 29 ^ (15 | 16) ^ 3
16:56:41  <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
16:58:47  *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC
17:01:32  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, in 8bpp it already works fine with just recolor sprites, it's 32bpp that needs variants
17:02:11  <_dp_> though I think I found an interesting hack for 32bpp as well
17:04:21  <Samu> the answer i was looking was 1
17:13:23  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
17:18:27  <Samu> Need help: trying to simplify this line: end_tileh_aqueduct = SlopeWithOneCornerRaised(OppositeCorner(GetHighestSlopeCorner((end_tileh_aqueduct ^ (SLOPE_ELEVATED | SLOPE_STEEP)) ^ start_tileh_aqueduct)));
17:19:29  <Samu> i want the result to be the slope that is sent to the terraform command
17:20:12  <Samu> to make end_tile the complement of the start_tile, both iclined but in opposite directions
17:21:52  <Samu> this one works when end_tile is not steep: end_tileh_aqueduct = ComplementSlope(start_tileh_aqueduct) ^ end_tileh_aqueduct;
17:23:00  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
17:43:14  <Samu>
17:43:39  <Samu> that line needs help
17:43:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #8287: Backport things for 1.10.3 release
17:43:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #8287: Backport things for 1.10.3 release
17:44:09  <LordAro> frosch123: if you don't mind...
17:45:06  <LordAro> i tried to re-backport languages, but the script kept trying to remove a load of belarusian, so i didn't bother
17:48:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8287: Backport things for 1.10.3 release
17:49:01  <frosch123> isn't everyone "artic code vault contributor" now?
17:49:07  <frosch123> why is there a badge?
17:52:42  <andythen_> supermop_Home_ yo
17:53:41  <LordAro> frosch123: new people aren't, presumably
17:53:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8287: Backport things for 1.10.3 release
17:55:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro created new tag: 1.10.3
17:55:43  <LordAro> boom.
17:56:15  <frosch123> \o/
17:56:27  <LordAro> someone else feel like drafting a news post?
18:00:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mbuckie opened issue #8290: Game Crashed while attempting to clone a train in one depot while train is in another depot
18:01:55  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
18:01:56  <Wolf01> Ready for a short horror story? "I felt like a shiver along my spine, that is OTTD 1.10.3 coming like an unexpected train"
18:06:48  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
18:07:43  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
18:12:35  *** andythen_ has quit IRC
18:13:14  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:25:05  <_dp_> for such a simple hack it works surprisingly well
18:32:18  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
18:34:55  <andythenorth> oof
18:35:07  <andythenorth> designing the last generation of trains is the hardest :P
18:36:14  <andythenorth> it's the most tangled up with IRL, cos it gets introduced around 2020
18:36:15  <frosch123> easy solution, have infinite many generations
18:36:21  <andythenorth> generative pixels?
18:36:30  <andythenorth> infinite hotel problem?
18:36:44  <frosch123> hilbert's hotel?
18:36:47  <andythenorth> infinite hotel problem is quite nice
18:36:59  <andythenorth> child #1 loves maths and infinity stuff
18:38:01  <frosch123> it's all nice and fun, until you arrive at axiom of choice or well-ordering theorem
18:38:06  <frosch123> don't go there
18:38:44  <andythenorth> if you need to sort the guests in the infinite hotel by order of age
18:38:46  <nielsm> see that's where we should have GS able to generate vehicle models dynamically
18:38:47  <andythenorth> it should be possible
18:38:54  <andythenorth> but it might take infinitely long
18:39:04  <andythenorth> unless you can do it infinitely quickly
18:39:35  <andythenorth> anyway, IRL causes trouble
18:39:46  <andythenorth> and the previous generation has already topped out some of the stats
18:40:20  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
18:40:41  <nielsm> I recently read some railway nerds claiming that 230 km/h is the new 160 km/h
18:40:57  <nielsm> "you may as well build 230 km/h track the added cost is so little"
18:41:11  <frosch123> maybe the swapped the numbers :p
18:41:42  <frosch123> db considered deprecating all trains > 200km/h, and make 160 the normal speed
18:44:47  <nielsm> some near future trains could very well be letting freight cars run at what's currently considered high-speed passenger speeds, and that's when the high-speed passenger would need to move to maglev to have further gains in speed
18:45:45  <nielsm> and yes I just told andy he needs to draw maglev trains
18:46:05  <frosch123> freight trains are pretty fast when moving. the problem is that they are stopped most of the time
18:46:16  <b_jonas> if only our railway network was maintained well enough that trains didn't constantly have to slow down for bad tracks
18:47:31  <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.10.3
18:47:31  *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.10.3 | Website: * (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only"
18:48:14  <andythenorth> hmm
18:48:21  <andythenorth> maybe some more freight EMUs and stuff
18:48:24  <andythenorth> faster and so on
18:48:37  * andythenorth BBL
18:48:39  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
18:48:49  <nielsm> self-propelled container flatcars? yeah that could work
18:49:11  <nielsm> except for if they're electrified, it wouldn't work with overhead wires
18:52:28  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
18:54:00  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
19:06:07  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
19:07:04  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
19:15:08  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
19:15:57  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
19:21:20  <b_jonas> is there some reason why I can't build a new graphics of station under a train if there's already a station in that square and the rail track is the same too? some trick that a newgrf could play with stations perhaps?
19:26:06  <b_jonas> I often want to delay prettifying the stations until after I've built everything else and the trains are already let in
19:31:25  <FLHerne> b_jonas: That annoys me too sometimes
19:41:12  <frosch123> that's just traditional behaviour
19:41:28  <frosch123> originally you could not do anything with tiles, when there was a vehicle on them
19:41:42  <frosch123> over times many restrictions were removed, but apparently not here
19:41:43  <b_jonas> yes, I know, and openttd improved that in a lot of cases
19:41:48  <frosch123> it has nothing to do with newgrfs
19:42:19  <b_jonas> also I wish I could reserve a tile under a bridge so that towns can't build under it if I'm planning to build rail tracks there
19:42:39  <frosch123> does purchase land not work?
19:42:47  <b_jonas> frosch123: sure, but I mean maybe newgrfs can have station tiles that differ in more ways than the rail track and cosmetic differences
19:43:03  <b_jonas> in which case that's why the interface wouldn't allow replacing the station
19:43:06  <b_jonas> frosch123: it doesn't work
19:43:27  <b_jonas> building an unused railway track does work
19:43:45  *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
19:43:46  <b_jonas> so does purchasing adjacent land so that the town can't reach it
19:45:35  <frosch123> hmm, i think the intenion was to disallow building bridges over owned land, to not restrict what can later be built on the owned land
19:45:58  <frosch123> i guess it turned out to be symmetric, to also not allow owned land under bridges
19:46:03  <b_jonas> that makes sense
19:46:15  <b_jonas> but this is a bridge that I own
19:46:41  <b_jonas> and I can build a bridge over my own purchased land already, the purchase just disappears
19:50:39  <frosch123> that's just an implication of other rules :)
19:51:38  <frosch123> objects have two rules: do not allow bridges above them. auto-remove the owned land when needed for owner's construction
19:52:14  <frosch123> rules are simple. just the implications may be surprising :)
19:52:44  <b_jonas> another minor thing that bothers me about the interface is when I'm about to place or modify or remove a signal, the interface highlights the square where I'm about to do that, but it doesn't highlight which of the two diagonal tracks I'm about to affect. I think I misclick a lot with diagonal signals because of this.
19:53:13  <b_jonas> it doesn't even work if there's only one diagonal track in the square and I'm clicking on the other half of the square
19:53:45  <frosch123> doesn't remove always remove both?
19:54:03  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
19:54:16  <b_jonas> no
19:54:21  <b_jonas> remove also requires aiming the same way
19:55:17  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
20:05:40  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
20:17:44  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:24:31  <b_jonas> oh, another minor thing that bothers me in the interface
20:25:18  <b_jonas> is there a newgrf that modifies the opengrf graphics of parks and construction sites in town so that no square that's owned by the town can look as just an ordinary grass tile if I turn buildings transparent and turn off full detail?
20:27:48  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
20:39:17  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
20:41:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8290: Game Crashed while attempting to clone a train in one depot while train is in another depot
20:47:18  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
20:47:35  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
20:51:40  *** Samu has quit IRC
20:51:51  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
21:00:04  <b_jonas> I also wish I could convert a railway station tile to a different graphics railway station tile when the town doesn't allow me to construct new station tiles
21:12:35  <_dp_> 1.10.3 is at the bottom of the server list again :(
21:14:50  <_dp_> lol, wtf, someone is running 9 1.3.0 servers xD
21:14:56  <b_jonas> oops... it's 2056 and the X2001 monorail engine is no longer manufactured. I have a lot of cargo monorail stuff. now I wonder if I should upgrade them to maglev, or use the double engine with passenger capacity.
21:28:11  <b_jonas> I'll probably have to upgrade everything to monorail eventually, but needn't do it all at once. should probably start with the large north mining line.
21:28:18  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
21:28:26  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
21:32:11  *** Progman has quit IRC
21:33:43  *** gelignite has quit IRC
21:54:33  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
21:56:36  *** nielsm has quit IRC
22:08:51  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
22:10:09  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
22:16:27  *** urdh has quit IRC
22:17:02  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
22:25:39  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
22:38:44  *** urdh has joined #openttd
22:47:59  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
22:48:35  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
22:56:37  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
23:09:02  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
23:12:13  *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
23:25:20  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
23:40:08  *** Smedles has quit IRC
23:41:23  *** Smedles has joined #openttd
23:48:00  <Gustavo6046> Ha, odd. The build works now. Same version 1.10.2, same clang, same arguments.
23:48:06  <Gustavo6046> Maybe it's because I didn't use libc++?
23:49:46  <Gustavo6046> Maybe it's because I built the latest version of LLVM overnight;.
23:58:47  *** Smedles has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk