Log for #openttd on 10th August 2020:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:03:35  *** Smedles has joined #openttd
00:22:28  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
00:22:35  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
00:29:35  *** Smedles has quit IRC
00:30:04  *** Smedles has joined #openttd
01:48:16  *** keoz has quit IRC
02:22:26  *** D-HUND has joined #openttd
02:25:47  *** debdog has quit IRC
03:06:42  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
03:16:16  *** glx has quit IRC
05:47:27  *** keoz has joined #openttd
06:05:49  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
06:37:07  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:46:34  *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
06:46:47  *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
06:59:34  *** arikover has joined #openttd
07:05:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #8291: Change: Use key names instead of characters in hotkey.cfg
07:18:49  <andythenorth> hmm
07:19:02  <andythenorth> hi
07:23:16  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
07:29:53  *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
07:34:01  <_dp_> o/
07:48:26  <TrueBrain> funny patch _dp_  :)
07:52:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8291: Change: Use key names instead of characters in hotkey.cfg
07:53:29  <_dp_> it's a shit show
08:15:16  <andythenorth> o_O
08:16:12  <andythenorth> newgrf...replace ottd black background with tiles of a room? :P
08:16:52  <_dp_> I was thinking of replacing my room background with tiles of openttd xD
08:17:24  <TrueBrain> I was thinking about replacing the warmth in my house with coolness ..
08:23:12  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
08:26:13  *** b_jonas has quit IRC
08:32:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro opened pull request #162: Create
08:32:25  <LordAro> ...damn
08:32:28  <LordAro> commit message
08:32:34  <LordAro> do we care about those on the website?
08:32:46  <TrueBrain> change it during squashing?
08:32:54  <LordAro> ah yes
08:33:01  <TrueBrain> and yes, ofc we care :)
08:33:02  <LordAro> saves me having to check the repo out on this computer :p
08:33:11  <TrueBrain> I can understand :)
08:33:14  <LordAro> also, the CI appears to be sad
08:33:23  <TrueBrain> which CI?
08:33:29  <TrueBrain> bit of a broad definition: CI :D
08:33:32  <LordAro>
08:33:41  <LordAro> last master CI build
08:33:53  <TrueBrain> hm, why did it not email me about this
08:34:07  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
08:35:35  <TrueBrain> seems AWS changed some permissions :)
08:35:46  <TrueBrain> "is not authorized to perform: ecs:ListTagsForResource on resource"
08:36:53  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:37:00  <LordAro> yay
08:39:10  <Wolf01> o/
08:41:44  <TrueBrain> weird, cannot really find why it would need that now
08:42:16  <LordAro> bleh, and the PR CI has failed due to a change in flake8
08:42:18  <LordAro> grumble.
08:45:13  <TrueBrain> I have that too from time to time .. annoying if you are the one having to fix it .. but then again, most of the time it is a valid complaint ..
08:46:14  <TrueBrain> why oh why does it need to be able to list tags ... hmmmm
08:46:25  <TrueBrain> it is not that I mind
08:46:36  <TrueBrain> but I don't like that I cannot find WHY
08:46:41  <LordAro> :)
08:47:48  <TrueBrain> also funny, I cannot bind that permission to a Service, yet the error tells me it is because it couldn't list the tags of a service ..
08:47:49  <TrueBrain> ffs :P
08:57:20  <andythenorth> OpenTTD 'needs' a complex market for buying vehicles
08:57:29  <andythenorth> with options to buy used, refurbished, on lease etc
08:57:31  <andythenorth> not just new
08:58:13  <andythenorth> in fact we should let player design the vehicles
08:58:37  <andythenorth> offering body, traction package (engine/motors and crap) and paint scheme as variables
09:07:57  <TrueBrain> Fixed the issue for now LordAro
09:08:05  <TrueBrain> One can deploy again :)
09:08:58  <LordAro> :)
09:09:18  <LordAro> i'm going to have to checkout the repo to properly fix the flake8 issue though
09:09:25  <LordAro> grumble noises
09:09:37  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sure, and you make the sprites with 2 pixels of variation for each combination
09:11:16  <TrueBrain> LordAro: it is an easy fix you can do via web too
09:11:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #162: Create
09:11:43  <LordAro> TrueBrain: not in the same PR though
09:11:47  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
09:12:05  <LordAro> remote: GitHub found 1 vulnerability on OpenTTD/website's default branch (1 high). To find out more, visit:
09:12:08  <LordAro> remote:
09:12:11  <LordAro> scary.
09:12:28  <LordAro> could try updating jekyll, i guess
09:12:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #162: Create
09:13:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #162: Create
09:13:25  <TrueBrain> Impact for us is low, but yeah, and update would he appreciated
09:13:56  <TrueBrain> And that flake commit could just have been a new PR ofc ;)
09:14:13  <LordAro> well there's no chance i'm going to get a ruby/gem/godknowswhat set up working on MinGW, so i'll leave that for later
09:14:24  <LordAro> it could have, but then i'd have had to do rebasing and stuff
09:14:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 approved pull request #162: Create
09:15:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #162: Create
09:16:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro created new tag: 1.3.10
09:19:32  <TrueBrain> LordAro: you can rebase via web ;)
09:20:04  <andythenorth> hmm
09:20:21  <andythenorth> game progression is the enemy of minimalism in the tech tree :P
09:20:23  <andythenorth> oof
09:21:59  <LordAro> TrueBrain: you can? since when?
09:22:10  <LordAro> would need to fully upgrade jekyll anyway
09:23:27  <LordAro> 3.9 apparently uses 2.x
09:29:48  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
09:29:48  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
09:31:34  <TrueBrain> LordAro: rebasing works for a long time via the web already. Gives a merge commit sometimes, not always. But you can squash that again. GitHub is pretty awesome :)
09:36:43  *** tokai has quit IRC
10:05:22  <Wolf01> andythenorth: <- new recipe for chemtown
10:05:44  <andythenorth> rad
10:06:14  <andythenorth> the more I learn about industrial chemistry, the more it's insane that we don't make it circular, using solar or wind for the energy loss
10:07:56  <Wolf01> Then let's start teach this to kids with OTTD
10:24:05  <CornsMcGowan[m]> reminds me of bob
10:24:08  <CornsMcGowan[m]> bob's mods in factorio
10:24:17  <CornsMcGowan[m]> or angel's petrochem is probably what i'm thinking of
10:24:24  <CornsMcGowan[m]> or nuclearcraft in minecraft
10:32:01  *** duckfullstop is now known as luaduck
10:32:02  *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_
10:32:29  *** luaduck_ is now known as luaduck
10:33:15  <CornsMcGowan[m]> b_jonas: is there a newgrf that modifies the opengrf graphics of parks and construction sites in town so that no square that's owned by the town can look as just an ordinary grass tile if I turn buildings transparent and turn off full detail?
10:33:36  <CornsMcGowan[m]> re this question: no there isn't, but citymania client and jgrpp client both have a zoning overlay that tells u where u can't build
10:33:46  <CornsMcGowan[m]> and by extension will highlight town buildings
10:35:55  <_dp_> it's a silly overlay though I find it much easier to just use land info
10:36:19  <_dp_> but parks really shouldn't disappear completely in transparent
10:36:33  <_dp_> as well as some indusries if that's still not fixed
11:04:50  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
11:16:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Bertik23 opened issue #8292: Game cutting of savefile name after charecters with diacritics.
11:17:14  <LordAro> that's exciting
11:19:20  <TrueBrain> sounds like a feature :)
12:13:17  *** gelignite has quit IRC
12:16:24  *** Samu has joined #openttd
12:25:18  *** glx has joined #openttd
12:25:19  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
13:40:53  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
14:57:48  <andythenorth> urgh tech tree power creep
14:58:01  *** qwebirc42100 has joined #openttd
14:58:02  <andythenorth> the need for 'big progression' just leaves gaps
14:58:12  * andythenorth endless yak-shaving
14:58:16  *** qwebirc42100 has quit IRC
15:01:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: i am disappoined. no engine is named "yak"
15:01:26  <andythenorth> oo
15:01:30  <andythenorth> missed opportunity
15:01:44  <andythenorth> good name
15:01:56  <andythenorth> most of them are called V style names like 'Rage' and 'Fury'
15:01:59  <andythenorth> no Hoomins
15:03:17  <andythenorth> eh, I do think the game misses a 'drive the train' mode though
15:03:23  <andythenorth> it has 'crash the train' mode
15:03:31  <andythenorth> but not "don't crash the train"
15:05:38  *** arikover has quit IRC
15:05:54  *** arikover has joined #openttd
15:21:52  <andythenorth> meh duplicate engines just because I want different paint schemes :D
15:22:07  <andythenorth> "but what is the gameplay rationale andythenorth"
15:22:16  <andythenorth> oh that ship sailed I guess
15:33:16  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
15:59:04  *** blathijs has quit IRC
16:03:19  *** blathijs has joined #openttd
16:12:59  *** Progman has joined #openttd
16:21:25  <Gustavo6046> I made a train track with a buffer loop trains can get in to remain safe. They do not want to use it, though, and rather just lock each other. I probably did the path signaling wrong, but I don't know what!
16:22:43  <supermop_Home_> this is a single track line?
16:22:51  <andythenorth> there's nothing that would cause them to go in there
16:22:56  <Gustavo6046> Yeah, although there are some parts it diverts into two.
16:22:57  <andythenorth> give them orders to go round a waypoint
16:22:58  <Gustavo6046> Oh
16:23:00  <Gustavo6046> Alright
16:23:04  <andythenorth> or....just use an escape depot :)
16:23:15  <andythenorth> the balloon track is realistic, but space inefficient
16:23:17  <Gustavo6046> I thought the path signal would help.
16:23:19  <Gustavo6046> But alright, thanks
16:23:35  <supermop_Home_> when the train gets to that signal, the pathfinder will see that loop as heading away from its destination
16:23:37  <andythenorth> escape depots are the most gameplay efficient way to handle station blocks
16:23:51  <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ yo also
16:24:19  *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
16:25:45  <supermop_Home_> basically almost never put signals on single track
16:26:04  <supermop_Home_> only put them where you want a train to stop
16:26:27  <supermop_Home_> such as before the entry to a single track segment
16:26:34  <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ I played a game with the railfreight and sector liveries
16:26:58  <andythenorth> TL;DR Railfreight red works great; Sector liveries the vinyl sector logo is just not working in pixels
16:29:49  <Gustavo6046> Ah, thanks
16:30:45  <Gustavo6046> This is really cool
16:30:58  <Gustavo6046> I am basically pouring three towns worth of passengers and mail into a station.
16:31:11  <Gustavo6046> I made two trains as "valves" to try and alleviate this situation, but to little avail.
16:31:14  *** b_jonas has joined #openttd
16:31:18  <Gustavo6046> Valves, drains, whichever is more accu
16:31:20  <Gustavo6046> I guess both
16:31:26  <Gustavo6046> not accurate... you get the point
16:31:56  <Gustavo6046> Anyway, what is better, a far but slowish delivery, or a near but fast delivery?
16:33:33  <Gustavo6046> They were stuck here. This thing is like three junctions! Surely adding a third path signal will help, no?
16:34:10  <b_jonas> Gustavo6046: some types of cargo are more perishable than others, eg. for passengers you get much less value if the journey takes too long time, for oil it matters much less. look at the in-game cargo income chart and the rules at
16:34:31  <Gustavo6046> Ah
16:34:34  <Gustavo6046> Thanks
16:34:38  <Gustavo6046> Yeah
16:34:50  <_dp_> Gustavo6046, read/watch how signals work, your signaling makes no sense whatsoever
16:35:27  <Gustavo6046> Ah
16:35:34  <b_jonas> but you also have to take into account how much you pay for vehicle maintenance and amortization
16:35:45  <Gustavo6046> _dp_: signals tend to work on Y junctions. This is not an Y junction. It's a tirangle junction of sorts.
16:35:47  <Gustavo6046> triangle*
16:36:28  <_dp_> signals work everywhere when you use them correctly :p
16:37:43  <supermop_Home_> Gustavo6046 this works
16:47:04  <b_jonas> yes, that signaling can definitely deadlock of two trains come in from opposite ends. this only works if you have only one train on the network, in which case you don't need any signals.
16:48:09  <b_jonas> and note that depots have a built-in signal for trains that want to leave
16:48:53  <andythenorth> hmm
16:48:56  <b_jonas> look at
16:49:01  <andythenorth> how many trains should I include?
16:50:22  <supermop_Home_> b_jonas there is no built in signal
16:50:52  <supermop_Home_> trains reversing will just not reverse until they can reserve a path,
16:51:13  <supermop_Home_> so if a station is at the end of a line, you can do without the signal
16:52:22  <supermop_Home_> but if the line continues and there is no signal, the train will reserve the track beyond the station and block other trains from using it
16:54:12  <Gustavo6046> ah
16:54:14  <Gustavo6046> thanks
16:54:45  <supermop_Home_> basically never put a signal on a single line, except where it is like a branch or siding rejoining a mainline
16:54:54  <b_jonas> supermop_Home_: I said leaving a depot
16:55:47  <supermop_Home_> where only one train will operate at a time
16:56:31  <b_jonas> yes, but a train will leave the depot only if it can reserve the block right outside the depot or a path to the next path signal
16:56:53  <b_jonas> so another train is allowed to pass in front of a depot
16:57:17  <supermop_Home_> Gustavo6046 instead of a loop at your station, two platforms might work better
16:57:55  <supermop_Home_> that way the oncoming train waits at the station loading, and out of the way for the first train to leave
16:58:50  <TrueBrain> Wait, this channel can give support to players? This is not good .. what happened?!
16:59:26  <TrueBrain> (Emphasis on 'can' btw)
17:00:32  <andythenorth> isn't reddit for that?
17:00:41  <nielsm> yeah the main thing to ask yourself when learning how to make signals is asking the question, "what happens if a train needs to stop at this signal, and then another train approaches"
17:00:44  * andythenorth needs support, pls send
17:02:05  *** Flygon has quit IRC
17:02:24  <supermop_Home_> andythenorth you need design strategy consultancy
17:02:36  <andythenorth> you are correct
17:02:40  <Gustavo6046> alright
17:02:44  <andythenorth> I am having client restraint issues
17:02:45  <Gustavo6046> good idea
17:02:46  <andythenorth> where I am the client
17:02:52  <supermop_Home_> i think you will find my fee very reasonable at 250 EUR/hr
17:03:27  <andythenorth> could we barter?
17:04:32  <supermop_Home_> i'll probably need some kind of penalty clause in there for every bad feature you insist on adding?
17:04:49  <supermop_Home_> speaking of barter i need to get some lunch
17:05:01  <andythenorth> I need supper
17:05:04  <andythenorth> soooo hungry
17:05:11  <andythenorth> where is peter when we need him?
17:06:20  <Gustavo6046> Is there an option to have a vehicle maintain at the nearest depot rather than a set one?
17:06:48  <Gustavo6046> You could use Voronoi to cache the "nearest depot" at a tile.
17:06:56  <Gustavo6046> Tile as in road/track/etc, not all tiles.
17:07:44  * andythenorth browsed forums briefly
17:07:51  <andythenorth> I think choosing to quit was a good choice
17:08:45  <Gustavo6046> Ah
17:08:48  <Gustavo6046> I'm having lunch now
17:08:51  <Gustavo6046> I mean I just got
17:09:01  <Gustavo6046> I am also wretching in hunger lol
17:09:28  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that bad?
17:10:28  <b_jonas> Gustavo6046: vehicles usually choose a nearby depot automatically, you rarely need to override that
17:10:56  <b_jonas> I don't think I ever put depots in the orders of vehicles, I just build enough depots, and tracks to them for trains
17:11:05  <Gustavo6046> Ah
17:11:07  <Gustavo6046> Thanks
17:11:09  <Gustavo6046> b_jonas: I usually put them in orders
17:11:16  <Gustavo6046> "maintain at X depot"
17:11:19  <andythenorth> TrueBrain just very uninspiring
17:11:30  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: so nothing new ;)
17:11:33  <Gustavo6046> I don't think they can seek maintenance on their own
17:11:38  <andythenorth> I guess I find it sad because forums were really what got me into modding ottd :)
17:12:02  <b_jonas> you could put them into orders, it might sometimes work better, but you have to pay attention then
17:12:03  <andythenorth> but I think forums are ultimately unhealthy mode of interaction
17:12:12  <b_jonas> I usually don't take the time so far, but I should probably start
17:12:28  <b_jonas> not the specific depot orders, but the generic service orders maybe
17:13:03  <Gustavo6046> Ah
17:13:09  <Gustavo6046> Thanks
17:13:11  <Gustavo6046> Service orders?
17:14:16  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: most of the Internet sadly enough is :(
17:14:31  <Gustavo6046> I mean general ones
17:14:33  <b_jonas> Gustavo6046:
17:14:39  <Gustavo6046> I don't think there are service orders that don't take a specific depot.
17:14:48  <Gustavo6046> Oh.
17:14:51  <Gustavo6046> I'm stupid.
17:14:52  <b_jonas> it's called "Go to nearest depot". I never used it yet
17:14:53  <Gustavo6046> Thank you.
17:15:03  <b_jonas> I just let trains go to depots whenever they feel like
17:15:05  <Gustavo6046> "Nearest depot", yeah, saw on that image.
17:15:12  <TrueBrain> Gustavo6046: you are not stupid; OpenTTD is rather complex, with many possible options :)
17:15:12  <Gustavo6046> You never used it? Rookie. I never *saw* it!
17:15:15  <Gustavo6046> Ah, thanks!
17:15:18  <Gustavo6046> I guess so
17:15:36  <Gustavo6046> b_jonas: never noticed that they tend to feel like breaking and hiccuping fume more than servicing?
17:15:52  <Gustavo6046> I guess it's like homework. Everyone would be better with it, but nobody wants to do it.
17:16:23  <b_jonas> I do know that trains are often stupid and pick the wrong depot, but I don't think I can improve on that by orders, only by placing the depots and tracks and signals well
17:17:32  <b_jonas> many people also play with the option for trains never breaking, in which case they only need to go to the depots when you modify something about them
17:17:44  <Gustavo6046> Ah
17:34:21  <Gustavo6046> Should I also add signals near stations?
17:34:25  *** glx is now known as Guest5503
17:34:25  *** glx_ has joined #openttd
17:34:25  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx_
17:34:25  *** glx_ is now known as glx
17:37:26  *** keoz has quit IRC
17:40:21  *** Guest5503 has quit IRC
17:45:02  <b_jonas> Gustavo6046: yes, unless the station has only one track inside and one track to exit, in which case add the signal to the junction where that track merges to the mainline
17:45:33  <b_jonas> but the latter works only for stations with very small traffic
17:45:39  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:49:33  <Gustavo6046> Ah
17:49:35  <Gustavo6046> thanks
17:51:19  <b_jonas> Gustavo6046: look at and and for hints
17:51:46  <b_jonas> although some of the designs shown there are old and no longer really needed with path signals
17:52:27  *** Samu has quit IRC
18:00:03  <Gustavo6046> Alright
18:00:05  <Gustavo6046> I'll check
18:00:35  <Gustavo6046> Oh, also, I cannot autoreplace my buses because they are of obsoleted models. I want to autoupgrade them.
18:05:23  <nielsm> you can do that
18:05:36  <nielsm> open the vehicle list, then use the Manage button in the lower right
18:06:36  <andythenorth> hmm
18:06:51  <andythenorth> I 'need' 2 almost identical-looking engines for Horse
18:06:54  <andythenorth> that will be confusing
18:07:20  <frosch123> you already have tons of identical looking wagons, what's the problem?
18:07:43  <frosch123> also, consider the original sh 30/40 :)
18:07:47  <andythenorth> exactly
18:07:55  <andythenorth> let's keep going on this rationale :D
18:08:05  <andythenorth> also there's "simplified mode" available
18:08:20  <andythenorth> which nobody will use, but doubles my checking when I change the tech tree :D
18:09:59  <frosch123> looks like the trick of the original engines is to use the same sprites every second generation
18:10:15  <frosch123> assuming you already forgot what the old vehicles looked like
18:10:50  <nielsm>  vs
18:12:01  <frosch123> in original temperate there are 20 engines. 3 have identical sprites, and 1 has a trivial recoloring (today you would say 1cc/2cc swapped)
18:12:55  <andythenorth> precedent!
18:55:46  *** fjb has joined #openttd
18:57:11  *** fjb has joined #openttd
19:00:49  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:05:41  *** fjb has quit IRC
19:06:09  *** fjb has joined #openttd
19:07:06  *** fjb has quit IRC
19:08:28  *** arikover has quit IRC
19:08:40  *** arikover has joined #openttd
19:29:49  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
19:36:47  *** jhq has quit IRC
19:37:02  *** jback has joined #openttd
19:39:34  <_dp_> hmm, well, it didn't take long for first desyncs to happen...
19:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause> that's good, because they will be easier to reproduce? :p
19:40:57  <_dp_> doesn't seem so unfortunately :(
19:41:17  <_dp_> I kinda hunted down all the easier ones already
19:45:03  <TrueBrain> So this should be more enjoyable not?
19:53:15  <_dp_> it aint that fun when you have no leads :(
19:54:52  <_dp_> but at least I can write off known desyncs now
19:55:29  <_dp_> also (wrong company in DoCommand) is still a thing apparently
19:55:44  *** arikover has quit IRC
19:58:27  *** arikover has joined #openttd
20:06:31  *** arikover has quit IRC
20:07:01  <_dp_> oh, I think I know what that may be
20:07:22  <_dp_> if client spectates immediately after sending the command
20:08:01  <_dp_> command gets queued by spectate is processed instantly so it gets ahead
20:08:05  <_dp_> *but
20:08:15  *** arikover has joined #openttd
20:10:32  *** nielsm has quit IRC
20:14:12  <_dp_> doesn't explain wrong company on join though
20:18:29  *** gelignite has quit IRC
20:21:35  *** arikover has quit IRC
20:30:54  <_dp_> hm, it looks like some joins are happening when client actually leaves the game
20:44:05  <b_jonas> ah, the other types of join, not train line joins
20:44:49  <_dp_> I can repro it on citymania but that's more like my bug so no idea why is it happening on reddit as well
21:07:09  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
21:18:59  <b_jonas> I downloaded some "recent" openttdcoop public server games and looking at one right now. these can probably give me some ideas for my own future games.
21:37:00  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
22:04:06  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
22:05:31  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
22:29:38  *** Progman has quit IRC
23:27:59  *** iSoSyS has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk