Log for #openttd on 13th August 2020:
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01:12:52  <Gustavo6046> b_jonas, _dp_: is this better?
01:16:21  <Gustavo6046> Placing down bridges like a chadtm
01:16:24  <Gustavo6046> ™*
01:24:33  <Eddi|zuHause> what's that loop for?
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01:42:48  <Gustavo6046> Eddi|zuHause: so trains coming both ways can access the depot or the station
01:43:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what "both ways"? there's only a path from one direction, in two different ways, probably neither one will ever get used
01:47:11  <Gustavo6046> Oh wait
01:47:13  <Gustavo6046> they're both the same way
01:47:16  <Gustavo6046> I'm stupid lol, thanks
01:49:05  <Gustavo6046> Eddi|zuHause: like this?
01:50:10  <Eddi|zuHause> right. next question: how will they get out?
01:50:32  <Gustavo6046> From the station or the depot?
01:50:48  <Eddi|zuHause> from the depot
01:50:48  <Gustavo6046> From the depot, they can just go the other way around these loops.
01:50:55  <Gustavo6046> Or
01:51:01  <Gustavo6046> if they want to go north, they can just follow the north track and
01:51:05  <Gustavo6046> oh
01:51:07  <Gustavo6046> yeah
01:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause> assume that on every signal, there's a train waiting.
01:51:11  <Gustavo6046> that diagonal crossing in the middle is not necessary
01:51:30  <Eddi|zuHause> how will they pass that train?
01:51:57  <Gustavo6046> I have eliminated the diagonal crossing, therefore there are two less signals to worry about
01:52:26  <Gustavo6046> I dunno where else.
01:52:34  <Gustavo6046> Maybe the signal in one of the branches near the north exit?
01:53:00  <Gustavo6046> (which I also have, just in case, removed)
01:54:57  <Eddi|zuHause> on a single-track section like that, you should have no signals anywhere...
02:02:39  <Gustavo6046> ah
02:02:40  <Gustavo6046> alright
02:03:53  <Gustavo6046> I didn't know that!
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02:31:03  <Gustavo6046> Why am I proud of my stupid (and currently useless) trench? It took a crapton of money to dig!
02:31:14  <Gustavo6046> I should've hired Minecraft Steve to dig it. :P
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03:48:50  <Gustavo6046> I have around 0k USD left, all loans paid, why does the game still not let me autorenew my trains? (I even told to explicitly replace diesel engines by the electric SH40, but no budge)
03:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a setting for a limit
03:56:37  <Eddi|zuHause> also, replacing diesel to electric is only possible in electrified depots
04:02:15  <Gustavo6046> Ah, okay
04:02:17  <Gustavo6046> Well, true
04:02:27  <Gustavo6046> Eddi|zuHause: I converted every single thing to electric. It took me two tile swoops.
04:03:15  <Eddi|zuHause> if you do it right, converting everything takes about 10 pixels of mouse movement :p
04:03:53  <Gustavo6046> Ah
04:03:55  <Gustavo6046> Oh
04:03:58  <Gustavo6046> Zooming out?
04:04:22  <Gustavo6046> Well, I selected everything and it complained "owned by AdmiralAI Corps."
04:04:28  <Gustavo6046> therefore all of *my* tiles are already general electric
04:05:33  <Eddi|zuHause> not zooming out, but scrolling to the north end, opening a second viewport (press "V"), and then scrolling to the south end. then you can drag from the viewport window into the main map
04:09:59  <Gustavo6046> ah
04:10:04  <Gustavo6046> haha, good point
04:10:06  <Gustavo6046> yeah
04:16:24  <Eddi|zuHause> (and technically you don't even need the mouse to scroll)
04:21:49  <Gustavo6046> (ah)
04:22:05  <Gustavo6046> Do multiple ships in the same dock slow loading/unloading down
04:22:07  <Gustavo6046> ?
04:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause> no
04:23:05  <Eddi|zuHause> (that's really the most OP part about ships, you can fit infinitely many of them in close space)
04:32:59  <Gustavo6046> Ah, okay
04:33:01  <Gustavo6046> lol
04:33:03  <Gustavo6046> true
04:33:05  <Gustavo6046> rather OP.
04:33:22  <Gustavo6046> I was gonna say "I wish I could build tunnels", but the severe land "circumvention" limitations seem just right now.
04:36:06  <Gustavo6046> I like ships, though.
04:36:22  <Gustavo6046> Something about them figuring out their routes and alternating on loading and unloading is kinda cool.
04:36:30  <Gustavo6046> Same about trains. It looks so nice and gratifying for whatever reason.
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05:50:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8288: Fix: sprite preview in sprite aligner is too small with scaled UI
05:50:46  <Gustavo6046> The buoy thing is kinda annoying
05:51:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8291: Change: Use key names instead of characters in hotkey.cfg
06:16:14  <CornsMcGowan[m]> very
06:16:23  <CornsMcGowan[m]> shame the ship pathfinder has had issues for a while
06:20:22  <Gustavo6046> Ah
06:21:30  <CornsMcGowan[m]> yeah like it doesn't have the same optimisations like the road/rail ones
06:22:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not quite correct
06:23:01  <Eddi|zuHause> it has the all the same optimizations. just they don't work that well
06:23:26  <Eddi|zuHause> because with roads and rails, you have long straight sections
06:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause> which don't need any pathfinder decisions, and can be cached
06:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause> with water, every tile is a crossing, which needs a pathfinder decision
06:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause> so you can't cache any of that
06:24:57  <Eddi|zuHause> you need a completely different kind of optimization for that
06:26:33  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh i see
06:26:44  <CornsMcGowan[m]> tfw no jump point search
06:40:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you're welcome to implement that
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06:58:23  <Wolf01> Let's see if provider is able to connect to the global internet today
07:03:09  <Eddi|zuHause> what other internet would it connect to?
07:03:29  <Wolf01> National one
07:05:04  <Wolf01> Italian sites and services operated normally, a lot of foreign services had problems yesterday
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07:16:16  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds odd, i would imagine a large country like italy has more than one connection to the outside world
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07:46:05  <andythenorth> yo
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08:26:12  <FLHerne> andythenorth:
08:26:58  <andythenorth> glass like that is amazing
08:27:03  <andythenorth> also gives me the creeps
08:27:12  <andythenorth> my grandma had tables made of it
08:27:45  <andythenorth> putting your hand under it is a bit like trypophobia
08:38:28  <FLHerne> andythenorth: New Horse rendering process?
08:38:34  <FLHerne>  - build train in Lego
08:38:40  <FLHerne>  - put train under pixel-glass
08:38:59  <FLHerne>  - copy result onto spritesheet
08:39:17  <TrueBrain> automate? :)
08:42:11  <Timberwolf> The physical version of the Timberwolf's Trains process!
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08:56:56  <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds odd, i would imagine a large country like italy has more than one connection to the outside world <- iirc only 4, and the Milan one fails often which causes a lot of overload on the others
08:57:41  <Eddi|zuHause> that's because capitalism tends to optimize away all redundancies
09:00:12  <Wolf01> Like the wiring of the FTTH, TIM (the main provider) is wiring for FTTC while openfiber wires for FTTH, the problem is that openfiber can get funds only where there isn't FTTC and TIM doesn't even consider FTTH
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09:02:30  <Wolf01> So, since I have FTTC I won't get FTTH unless I pay (a lot and iirc only commercial companies could ask for it) or wait until they finish to cover everything and start the second pass to upgrade the last mile... which TIM want to do with 5G
09:03:37  <Wolf01> That's because you can't have 2 of the same infrastructure covering the same territory
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09:19:59  <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause that might be the best one line critique of contemporary capitalism I've seen
09:27:14  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: yeah, i felt like adding any more words to it would probably break it :p
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09:30:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that's worse than capitalism. that's protectionism and local monopolies
09:30:56  <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause not sure you'd rally a crowd behind it :P
09:31:16  <andythenorth_> if only we could incentive capitalism to leave one layer of redundancy in place :P
09:31:40  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno. people did crowd behind tweet-sized critiques in the past. :)
09:31:59  <andythenorth_> bubbles seem to incentivise provision of huge redundancy initially, e.g. railway bubble etc
09:32:13  <andythenorth_> then it's over-corrected by short-term profit motive
09:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: in theory, that's where government policies would step in. but those have been driven into the ground since at least the thatcher era
09:32:44  <andythenorth_> 'free market knows best'
09:32:49  <andythenorth_> best for what?
09:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> "except when it doesn't"
09:33:01  * andythenorth_ _is_ a capitalist
09:33:09  <andythenorth_> but probably not a typical capitalist
09:33:48  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a "typical" capitalist? (as opposed to a "stereotypical")
09:34:13  <Eddi|zuHause> capitalists are also people [[citation needed]]
09:34:23  <andythenorth_> evidence needed
09:34:35  <andythenorth_> is anyone actually people?
09:35:15  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, if you take enough "averages" over different categories, you're sure to find no person that satisfies all of them
09:35:58  <Eddi|zuHause> australia repeatedly tries to find the "average australian", and they failed every time
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09:51:14  <Wolf01> I'm the average lazy bastard
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10:06:55  <andythenorth_> quak
10:07:02  <andythenorth_> early for frosch's
10:07:17  <andythenorth_> froschs *
10:07:22  <andythenorth_> english stupid '
10:07:35  <LordAro> frosches, surely
10:08:40  <frosch123> it's raining, so the climate is nice today
10:09:06  <andythenorth_> LordAro is that like tomatoes?
10:09:57  <TrueBrain> wait, you have rain already? Dammit ...
10:10:06  <LordAro> frosch123 is red for me...
10:10:33  <frosch123> <- rain for two hours
10:10:35  <frosch123> it's awesome
10:10:53  <TrueBrain> GIVE!
10:10:57  <frosch123> don't mind the 90's design of that site
10:11:10  <frosch123> the data is from a few kilometers from here
10:13:01  <andythenorth_> the first day I need to go back in the office
10:13:07  <andythenorth_> there are severe weather warnings
10:13:15  <andythenorth_> and my road is being resurfaced so I can't drive
10:13:27  <andythenorth_> "god sends a message"
10:21:51  <Wolf01> lol
10:46:03  <andythenorth_> I think Train Whack is a mistake
10:46:09  <andythenorth_> it was probably intended to be!
10:46:14  <andythenorth_> Train Wang!
10:49:32  <frosch123> apparently you need a Whain Track variant
10:58:21  <andythenorth_> maybe it needs DLC
10:58:28  <andythenorth_> or a modding framework
10:58:46  <andythenorth_> when I do american Horse, will I allow combining in Train Whack?
11:21:40  <Wolf01> Put an option :P
11:22:03  <frosch123> pre/post 1492
11:22:11  <andythenorth_> good point
11:38:51  <Wolf01> Let's try to install 2004
12:19:45  <Eddi|zuHause> there aren't many american horses pre 1492, unless you count -30000 or so :)
12:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> (from what i heard, the predecessors of horses crossed the same land bridge as humans, just in the other direction)
13:04:05  <Flygon> Llamas
13:04:13  <Flygon> Gotta haul that stuff with Llamas.
13:04:32  <Flygon> If we're speaking North American specifically, sled dogs were a thing in both the snowy areas, and non-snowy.
13:04:35  <Flygon> Yes, I am being serious.
13:04:39  <Flygon> Anyway BRB shower.
13:05:59  <andythenorth_> HEQS original plan included elephants
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13:32:39  <Flygon> andythenorth_: Getting in on the 1400s/1500s Industrialization of India?
13:33:17  <andythenorth_> I found a UN forestry manual from 1960s
13:33:33  <andythenorth_> logging with elephants was an included technique
13:34:39  <CornsMcGowan[m]> nice
13:39:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: i would imagine sled dogs were also not a thing in pre-columbian america :p
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13:44:24  <CornsMcGowan[m]> will i get slaughtered for adding a global variable to my patch
13:45:14  <glx> it's better if you can avoid it
13:48:48  <CornsMcGowan[m]> fair; i'm just not sure how to add this tile highlighting stuff otherwise without adding params to the viewport functions
13:50:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8289: Fix clang-cl build on Windows
13:51:43  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i'll put in the one global i need and then afte,r i'll figure out how to eliminate it if possible
14:10:46  <Wolf01> Wtf is wrong with updates stuck at 94% for 1 hour?
14:14:15  <frosch123> it underestimated how long it takes to send all your data to the cia
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14:35:15  <Wolf01> Ok, reboot, bbl
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14:42:53  <frosch123> pff, exporting ottd wiki will take an hour. i wonder whether my bot will reach the bot request quots then :p
14:48:10  <frosch123> TrueBrain: does the new docker image retention policy affect us somehow?
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15:06:04  <Wolf01> Nice, now I could check the temperatures from the task manager
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15:13:43  <Wolf01> 13:40 -> 17:00, not bad
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15:16:11  <TrueBrain> "frosch123" ( I was wondering the same. They went from one extreme (no retention) to the other .. it now sounds that any image older than 6 months is removed, which is odd
15:16:38  <TrueBrain> Most images are renewed every week; just some only if there was a change
15:17:05  <TrueBrain> So I will have to check, but this sounds like a terrible idea they have now ;)
15:17:15  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i've just been informed global class instance is abad idea
15:17:46  <CornsMcGowan[m]> time to use singleton
15:20:05  <CornsMcGowan[m]> right?
15:21:26  <Wolf01> TB: to use WSL2 do I need to do something or it has been automagically replaced with the update?
15:22:30  <TrueBrain> You need to upgrade
15:22:45  <TrueBrain> Microsoft's article on it is spoton
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15:28:53  <Wolf01> Still no xserver?
15:31:15  <TrueBrain> Haven't looked into that
15:31:41  <Wolf01> I use the vcxsrv one
15:35:03  <Wolf01> Nice, I crashed OTTD badly, segmentation fault
15:36:59  <glx> clean or patched ?
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15:44:29  <Wolf01> Clean, I can't connect to the xserver
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15:50:55  <LordAro> i'd say SDL related, at a random guess
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16:03:31  <Wolf01> Ok, connection refused, but the server is running and configured, I used it
16:07:02  <TrueBrain> "frosch123" ( "The FAQ[0] says pulling an image once every 6 months will prevent it from being purged by resetting the timer."
16:07:13  <TrueBrain> So there isn't any issue :)
16:08:22  <glx> oh it's just a case of dropping useless images then
16:08:50  <glx> makes sense
16:09:20  <TrueBrain> Also means you cannot check an older image, like for us an older version of the CF
16:09:26  <TrueBrain> But I don't mind this
16:09:42  <TrueBrain> I hated Docker had no way of automatically deleting images
16:09:53  <TrueBrain> Our website repo is huge for absolutely no reason
16:11:37  <frosch123> :)
16:12:13  <LordAro> 17:07:02 < TrueBrain> "frosch123" (
16:12:17  <LordAro> you should stop doing that :p
16:12:29  <LordAro> matrix is bad at highlights
16:13:02  <glx> it's not the HL, it's the autocompletion I'd say
16:13:33  <_dp_> oh, wow, there is actually a good-looking 32bpp baseset/landscape
16:13:34  <LordAro> possibly
16:13:45  <_dp_> it's just been in development for over 10 years without a single release :/
16:14:04  <glx> typical 32bpp :)
16:14:18  <LordAro> heh
16:14:40  <LordAro> over 10 years means it must date from the 32bpp-ez era, are you sure it's actually a baseset, rather than just a collection of images?
16:15:26  <_dp_> well, so far it's just a bunch of nice screenshots so who knows what it actually is :p
16:15:32  <_dp_>
16:15:50  <LordAro> ah yes, badbrett
16:17:53  <glx> it's a one man project, including sounds and everything
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16:26:02  <_dp_> it's a shame newgrfs never focused on making complete climates
16:26:19  <_dp_> like a faulty rubik's cube - billion of options but no solution :(
16:28:41  <frosch123> did you check out V's stuff?
16:29:01  <andythenorth_> it was already solved, just get original TTD graphics :P
16:32:19  <_dp_> frosch123, yes, but that's like the only set
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16:32:29  <_dp_> and pretty extravagant one :p
16:32:48  <frosch123> there is also pm's pota:ghat
16:32:52  <frosch123> though it is a bit busy
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16:35:19  <_dp_> frosch123, isn't that just a ground sprites?
16:35:24  <_dp_> and quite a bad ones tbh
16:35:55  <frosch123> ah, you only accept complete sets. good luck then :p
16:36:36  <_dp_> well, yeah, that was kinda the whole point of what I said :p
16:36:54  <frosch123> i thought you were looknig for 32bpp ground sets
16:37:24  <TrueBrain> LordAro: tnx, did not know it does that. The new version of Matrix Mobile changed some things, that makes it less transparent what it sends to IRC :(
16:38:02  <_dp_> it's not even just 32bpp, for 8bpp there isn't much complete stuff either
16:38:57  <LordAro> _dp_: basesets are a lot of work :p
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16:49:14  <_dp_> LordAro, yes, but it's not like those hundreds mismatched grfs didn't require any work
16:49:26  <_dp_> I'd just rather see few complete climates instead
16:50:04  <_dp_> like original ttd did, you change climate and everything is different
16:50:13  <_dp_> but fits together visually and gameplay-wise
16:52:15  <andythenorth_> only 	Simon Foster has ever managed to pull that off
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16:57:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] VerlorenMind commented on issue #8295: The game crashes after two in-game months
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17:53:47  <andythenorth_> ha ha
17:53:51  * andythenorth_ has been researching trains
17:53:56  <andythenorth_> Iron Horse scale is all wrong
17:53:59  <andythenorth_> abandon? :P
17:54:29  <nielsm> days since we discussed scale in transport tycoon: zero
18:02:12  <Wolf01> :D
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18:32:16  <frosch123> hmm, i thought i know how mediawiki worked :p
18:32:32  <frosch123> turns out, image descriptions and image uploads are completely separate things
18:50:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8288: Fix: sprite preview in sprite aligner is too small with scaled UI
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19:29:01  <andythenorth_> I have drawn big steam engines as 12/8
19:29:06  <andythenorth_> and big diesels as 8/8
19:29:12  <andythenorth_> IRL they should be the same it turns out
19:30:16  <andythenorth_> also size is deceptive :P
19:30:26  <frosch123> did you miss the tender?
19:30:27  <andythenorth_> looks like a huge train, but is actually not
19:30:58  <andythenorth_> nah :)
19:31:06  <andythenorth_> something about the shape makes them look bigger than diesels
19:33:14  <andythenorth_> not going to redraw them, IRL is clearly wrong, Horse clearly right
19:34:38  <frosch123> 24m for br01, 18.5m for br v200
19:36:14  <frosch123> 19.5m for br103
19:36:50  <andythenorth_> I suspect UK trains were limited by turntable length
19:37:13  <andythenorth_> so many factors to vehicle progression :P
19:37:26  <frosch123> so from my very limited sample size, steam engines are longer, but not by 50%
19:37:59  <andythenorth_> IRL should be retconned
19:39:12  <andythenorth_> 70 feet (21m)
19:39:52  <andythenorth_> 69 feet 6 inches (21m)
19:40:18  * andythenorth_ only got into this because of Garratts :P
19:40:36  <frosch123> ah, also found diesels with 23m
19:40:44  <andythenorth_> someone should do a Garratt Zellepin, then NewGRF is complete
19:40:58  <nielsm> also steam engines tend to have many more wheels
19:41:35  <nielsm> while most diesels and electrics are Bo'Bo' and Co'Co' is kinda rare?
19:44:04  <FLHerne> nielsm: In the UK it's the other way round
19:44:26  <FLHerne> Co-Co diesel locos have always been the norm in the UK
19:44:47  <FLHerne> Bo-Bo is quite unusual
19:45:31  <FLHerne> (AC electrics the way you say, althought the 92s are a significant exception)
19:46:22  <FLHerne> The 40s and Peaks were quite common and 1-Co-Co-1, if you want to draw diesels with lots of wheels
19:47:27  <Timberwolf> The Class 28 was Co-Bo, although to do that justice in OpenTTD you need to work out how to animate the cab windows falling out.
19:48:35  <Timberwolf> That's from the "let's do weird stuff for fun" era of British steam replacement.
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19:51:28  <andythenorth_> "then scrap it within 5 years"
19:51:40  <andythenorth_> the churn of 1955-1970 or so was quite nuts
19:52:11  <andythenorth_> 1 generation of steam engines and 2 generations of diesels designed, built, and then 2/3 of them scrapped
19:52:34  <andythenorth_> but if it doesn't work...melt it down :)
19:53:14  <andythenorth_> Timberwolf but have you got a class 38? o_O
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19:58:11  <Timberwolf> Heh :)
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19:58:26  <Timberwolf> I am thinking of sticking a Brush Kestrel in there.
19:59:38  <andythenorth_> hmm I could put a line in with Garratt -> Kestrel :P
20:00:14  <andythenorth_> stupid high power :)
20:18:32  <FLHerne> andythenorth_: Super Deltic
20:18:58  <FLHerne> (sure, it never actually existed, but it would have been really cool...)
20:20:53  <FLHerne> 36 cylinders, turbochargers, 4600hp
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20:58:15  <_dp_> lol, I just noticed ex's cb servers were called "City Mania"
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20:58:26  <_dp_> so we kinda went full circle without even realizing xD
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22:26:51  <andythenorth_> FLHerne High Horsepower Horse :P
22:26:54  <andythenorth_> special edition
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