Log for #openttd on 17th August 2020:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:08:01  <Gustavo6046> Hello!
00:08:23  <Gustavo6046> I have been toying with the concept of intertwining a city's road network with waterways. Did I do it right?
00:08:25  <Gustavo6046>
00:09:20  <Gustavo6046> I feel like I did one thing wrong, but I always feel that way lol
00:09:25  <Gustavo6046> (perhaps because I always do at least one thing wrong)
00:42:25  <Gustavo6046> You really have to add buoy orders manually?! ;-;
00:42:37  <Gustavo6046> Why not have the buoys be like pathnodes, so we can have a hierarchical-based pathfinding algorithm?
00:44:01  <Gustavo6046> Maybe keep track of what buoys can reach what buoys/docks (by searching for pathfindable waypoints in a manhattan radius of 30 tiles)
00:44:16  <Gustavo6046> Then when a ship wants to go from A to B, consider this high-level graph first
00:44:24  <Gustavo6046> before connecting each node on a per-tile basis
01:20:26  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
01:54:26  *** b_jonas has quit IRC
02:02:12  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
02:14:07  *** D-HUND has joined #openttd
02:17:32  *** debdog has quit IRC
02:32:33  *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
03:10:45  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
03:17:33  *** glx has quit IRC
05:14:32  *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC
05:35:56  *** Guest5399 is now known as planetmaker
06:06:33  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:10:57  *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd
07:13:04  *** iSoSyS has quit IRC
07:29:49  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:34:40  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
07:36:08  <Wolf01> Hmmm, I wanted to make some little scripts for fun, but I know well myself and I would end up creating entire applications and overcomplicate the starting idea
07:36:34  <Wolf01> Now I understand andythenorth :|
07:36:53  <andythenorth> think of the time you'll save though
07:37:07  <andythenorth> and you'd have a framework for creating scripts
07:37:57  <Wolf01> By not doing them, yes, because doing them is a waste of time anyway as they will be useless and I could already find alternatives
07:38:47  <andythenorth> the most best way to complete a project: 'invalid'
07:39:05  <andythenorth> or 'not doing'
07:39:23  <andythenorth> my favourite ticket statuses
07:40:22  <Wolf01> I should tell this to boss when I'll get to work again, I wonder if I'll get to keep the job
07:50:06  <andythenorth> I am in the top 3 people for invalidating tickets :P
07:50:18  <andythenorth> I'm only not #1 because I am sometimes lazy and ask someone else to do it
08:54:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on issue #29: Send download URL via API
08:55:06  <TrueBrain> right ... guess I should start working on the AWS migration again
08:55:15  <TrueBrain> the temperature is down enough that I guess focusing is possible again
08:58:17  <andythenorth> huzzah
08:58:22  * andythenorth needs to do AWS stuff 
08:58:42  <andythenorth> but it's Monday, so I have to do socially-responsible capitalism first
08:59:02  <TrueBrain> "cloudfront: (cloudfront) Changed IDs for Distributions (will cause resource replacement)." <- owh boy, updating CDK will be slow
08:59:20  <andythenorth> oof
08:59:37  <andythenorth> also I should learn about cloudfront, and stop clicking the 'manual invalidation /*' option
09:00:12  <TrueBrain> only if you want to :)
09:00:35  <andythenorth> AWS have a politely worded hint that It's Very Silly
09:01:23  <TrueBrain> I automated it via cli commands in a GitHub Action :P
09:02:54  <andythenorth> I'm going to do something a bit similar
09:09:51  <TrueBrain> I am always scared to death to redeploy with the latest CDK .. no clue what breaks ...
09:09:56  <TrueBrain> it is going to redo most of the DNS entries
09:09:58  <TrueBrain> this will be fun
09:09:59  <TrueBrain> YOLO!
09:29:32  <TrueBrain> guess it is summer .. not many nightlies this month .. (2 so far :P)
09:31:22  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
09:38:29  <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh dear
09:38:58  <TrueBrain> LordAro: what?
09:39:11  <LordAro> 2/16 isn't a good hit rate
09:39:16  <LordAro> someone should do some stuff
09:39:30  <TrueBrain> yeah, LordAro , do some stuff :P
09:39:30  <TrueBrain> :D
09:44:01  <TrueBrain> changing the IAM policy on the ECS cluster .. what could possibly go wrong .. fingers crossed
09:45:29  <andythenorth> I have to set up a proper IAM policy
09:45:34  <andythenorth> I hate this kind of admin :)
09:45:39  <andythenorth> so the opposite of what I'm good at
09:45:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on issue #29: Send download URL via API
09:45:55  <andythenorth> weekend project: draw Venn diagram of things andythenorth is good at, and everything else
09:46:38  <TrueBrain> updating all DNS records ... lets see if everything is still working in a bit :P
09:48:29  <TrueBrain> seems to be okay :P
09:53:23  <TrueBrain> meh; GitHub dependabot still cannot make a single PR for all dependency updates
09:53:33  <TrueBrain> I really do not like a PR per dependency ..
09:53:42  <TrueBrain> guess that only works if you keep up constantly or what-ever
09:53:50  <TrueBrain> requires a lot of automated testing to make that useful, I guess
09:55:19  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: why are you talking about "weekend projects" on a monday .. do you know what can happen between now and the weekend?!
09:56:14  <andythenorth> is this a question of semantics, and the unknowable future?
09:56:30  <andythenorth> or do you think I might get hit by a bus?
09:56:44  <TrueBrain> no no, nothing of that sorts
09:56:45  <TrueBrain> please no
09:56:55  <TrueBrain> more that you will have 5 more of these "weekend projects" before the week is over
09:56:59  <TrueBrain> and then feel sad you cannot do them all
09:57:14  <FLHerne> We should just clone him
09:57:21  <TrueBrain> do we REALLY want to do that?
09:57:22  <andythenorth> isn't that like....the essence of life though?
09:57:25  <TrueBrain> can you really handle that FLHerne ?
09:57:29  <andythenorth> life is making choices
09:57:38  <FLHerne> Well, not right now
09:57:40  <andythenorth> mostly I choose to play Blitz, and regret it
09:57:55  <TrueBrain> I am trying REALLY hard to not start WoW ..
09:58:00  <TrueBrain> it is REALLY hard not to :(
09:58:04  <TrueBrain> I like writing REALLY like this
09:58:06  <FLHerne> But if you invest a few million dollars in this biotech company I'm about to start, in a few short years who knows what might be possible?!
09:58:11  <TrueBrain> it makes me feel REALLY important
09:58:22  <andythenorth> REALLY
09:58:24  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: I was not talking about the possibility of it, more the outcome
09:58:28  <TrueBrain> I mean .. more than one andythenorth  ..
09:58:32  <andythenorth> I keep playing warcraft 1
09:58:33  <TrueBrain> can we really handle that?
09:58:40  <andythenorth> I stayed up waaaaaaaay too late
09:58:42  <FLHerne> NML probably can't
09:58:43  <TrueBrain> They will talk to each other ....
09:58:47  <TrueBrain> constantly
09:58:50  <TrueBrain> about trains
09:58:50  <andythenorth> I talk to myself, it's fine
09:58:53  <TrueBrain> and disagreeing
09:58:58  <TrueBrain> and opening their forum PMs
09:59:03  <FLHerne> We'll end up with generated files where the line number overflows
09:59:05  <andythenorth> TrueBrain I think you're describing the current situation?
09:59:16  <TrueBrain> ssssttttt
09:59:22  <FLHerne> Also, all the bugs will be closed for spurious reasons
09:59:30  <andythenorth> I really wanted to try a custom game in Warcraft 1 with no peons at the start
09:59:35  <TrueBrain> we will hit negative issues on GitHub :)
09:59:37  <andythenorth> but if peons are 0, you can't train any
09:59:55  <andythenorth> I did try 1 peon and 6 catapults and a raider
09:59:58  <andythenorth> very hard
10:00:18  <TrueBrain> that's what she said
10:00:39  <andythenorth> do we keep doing that joke?
10:00:43  <TrueBrain> yes
10:00:43  <andythenorth> I thought it was over
10:00:53  <TrueBrain> why would you think that?
10:01:10  <TrueBrain> at what point did anyone give any indication it would be over?
10:01:33  <andythenorth> there seems to be a mismatch
10:01:43  <andythenorth> between how I want the world to be, and how it is
10:01:46  <andythenorth> that's just me, right?
10:01:51  <andythenorth> nobody else feels that?
10:01:58  <TrueBrain> looks at US .. no, we all have this :P
10:05:03  <TrueBrain> so, where was I on my trello board ..
10:05:10  <TrueBrain> owh, right, MSU ..
10:06:01  <TrueBrain> <- backlog is not THAT big, I guess
10:07:08  <andythenorth> you could prioritise this one?
10:07:15  <TrueBrain> :D
10:08:03  <TrueBrain> CDK is still deploying AWS .. after an update it can take such a long time ..
10:08:43  <_dp_> wc -l bugs.txt
10:08:44  <_dp_> 157
10:08:50  * _dp_ sighs
10:08:56  <TrueBrain> git rm bugs.txt
10:09:03  <TrueBrain> git commit -m "Fixed the bugs.txt"
10:14:03  <TrueBrain> okay .. so now it is time to upgrade the EC2 instances .. this causes some downtime, which is very unlikely anyone notices :)
10:21:28  <frosch123> wow.... turns out github wiki has no method to upload images, unless you do a local git-checkout
10:21:44  <TrueBrain> drag&drop it in there, not?
10:22:16  <frosch123> <- people use these insane work-arounds
10:22:44  <TrueBrain> talking about wiki, where shall I document how BaNaNaS works? In the wiki of BaNaNaS repo, or in bananas-api? Or a new repo with commits? Any preferences?
10:22:59  <FLHerne> First one sounds sane
10:23:16  <FLHerne> I don't think anyone would ever find it in the others
10:23:28  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what is your audience?
10:23:41  <frosch123> users, uploaders, bananas devs?
10:23:48  <TrueBrain> documentation about the BaNaNaS YAML format, why the md5 stuff, how these repos are organised
10:23:53  <TrueBrain> so more the dev-side
10:24:06  <TrueBrain> users and uploaders should be taken care of by bananas-frontend-web
10:24:33  <TrueBrain> wiki vs git is mostly about tracking and approving changes
10:24:44  <TrueBrain> the repo itself is more: what repo do you open to find documentation
10:24:53  <TrueBrain> guess we can link to a single one from the rest, so not a biggy
10:26:34  <TrueBrain> I was considering making a bananas-docs, just to have a single place to store that all :P
10:28:16  <FLHerne> No
10:28:40  <TrueBrain> okay, no documentation it is, tnx :) :P
10:28:54  <FLHerne> :D
10:29:03  <TrueBrain> that was not really a helpful reply ;)
10:29:43  <FLHerne> I already find the split of bananas-related repos confusing
10:29:52  <TrueBrain> that cannot be helped, really
10:29:54  <FLHerne> Adding another one would not be helpful, IMO
10:29:55  *** DorpsGek_III has quit IRC
10:30:06  <TrueBrain> well, it would, if it explains how the other interconnect ofc
10:30:13  <TrueBrain> and link them all back to the documentation
10:30:16  <TrueBrain> so you can click through them
10:30:28  <TrueBrain> the problem I have, there is not a single repo where all the documentation should go
10:30:34  <TrueBrain> so that would result in splintered documentation
10:30:41  <TrueBrain> which is possibly more confusing
10:31:00  <TrueBrain> (but this is also exactly why I bring it up, as I need opinions :D)
10:31:17  <TrueBrain> BaNaNaS is a complex setup, basically :)
10:31:35  <TrueBrain> I wish you could group repositories in GitHub, that would be nice
10:34:00  <andythenorth> TrueBrain how about here? :D
10:34:06  <andythenorth> after I tidied it all up so nicely!
10:34:33  <TrueBrain> sorry, I really refuse to document this on the wiki
10:34:43  <andythenorth> oof, how rude :)
10:34:53  <TrueBrain> I know right
10:37:03  <TrueBrain> funny, you can have projects in the organisation now
10:37:06  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i consider bananas-api the master repo. the other bananas-* are secondary
10:37:10  <TrueBrain> allows you to make tickets cross repos :)
10:37:21  <TrueBrain> frosch123: not even bananas-server? :D
10:37:50  <frosch123> from the nml experience, people want to extend docs together with the code
10:37:53  <TrueBrain> I am fine by marking bananas-api as primary; in the end, it doesn't really matter, as long as I have a single place I can write down what we did and why and blablabla :P
10:38:05  <frosch123> so, it should be a doc/ within the bananas-api repo. no separate wiki
10:38:26  <TrueBrain> not even the GitHub wiki?
10:38:41  <frosch123> github wikis are a separate git repository
10:38:41  <LordAro> i dislike github wikis
10:38:49  <frosch123> so you cannot make a PR for both code and docs
10:38:52  <LordAro> they've always had a "tacked on" feel to them
10:38:57  <TrueBrain> frosch123: that is very true
10:39:07  <TrueBrain> LordAro: but perfect for documentation :)
10:39:28  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I cannot come up with a reason not to do it like that, so meh ..
10:39:38  <TrueBrain> well, the folder name .. should be "docs" in my opinion, not "doc" :D
10:39:44  <frosch123> LordAro: i just spent 4 days to extract ottd wiki into a git repository. and now learn that github wiki has no method to upload images for regular users
10:39:51  <frosch123> LordAro: so, yeah. github wiki is insane
10:40:10  <TrueBrain> :(
10:40:12  <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's "docs" in ottd
10:40:22  <TrueBrain> good :)
10:40:37  <TrueBrain> okay, I will write some shit down; after that people can tell me what I missed :p
10:41:11  <TrueBrain> 2 out of the 4 EC2 instances replaced .. 2 more to go :)
10:42:27  <frosch123> TrueBrain: and yes, that image drag/drop only works for issues, not for the wiki
10:42:46  <frosch123> and the url will be disassociated from the wiki data, so a hell for all future migrations
10:42:48  <TrueBrain> frosch123: that -is- insane
10:42:57  <frosch123> it's essentially like an external url
10:43:07  *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd
10:43:07  <TrueBrain> I did not expect that tbfh
10:43:37  <frosch123> me neither. i was checking all those template-magic, that fails in gollum/github wiki
10:43:46  <frosch123> i did not expect it would fall flat on images :p
10:44:01  <frosch123> (though they work fine, if you add them via a git checkout)
10:45:00  <TrueBrain> the unexpected problems :(
10:45:15  <TrueBrain> I really do love how OpenTTD now runs on AWS ..
10:45:35  <frosch123> except the bill :p
10:45:42  <TrueBrain> updating EC2 instances is like this: update the base image in the configuration of the auto-scale group. Scale up to twice the instances you had. Scale down to the former value
10:45:50  <TrueBrain> everything is taken care of automatically
10:46:09  <TrueBrain> when scaling up, the instances receive their configuration, and are added to the pool of what-ever they are for
10:46:29  <TrueBrain> when scaling down, they are first deregistered, it waits till all TCP connections are gone (or 5 minute timeout), and destroys the VMs
10:46:40  <TrueBrain> as the VMs don't contain any data, this works absolutely fine :)
10:46:45  <andythenorth> we use something like this for running automated tests
10:46:54  <TrueBrain> yeah, the bill is annoying :P But .. we still have plenty of credits :)
10:46:59  <andythenorth> moving prod to this is a whole other world, though
10:47:19  <andythenorth> "as the VMs contain lots of data, this is a problem" etc
10:47:23  <TrueBrain> well, I just upgrades all the machines in ~20 minutes, mostly because I forgot to press buttons when it was done with the next step :D
10:47:52  <TrueBrain> yeah .. VMs in AWS should really not contain any data :)
10:48:24  <TrueBrain> and now, lunch time!
10:49:41  <andythenorth> pls restore peter1138 from backups
10:49:47  <andythenorth> I miss lunch advice
10:50:01  <frosch123> btw. the .git dir for the wiki is 1 GB
10:54:12  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think i might have said it before a long time ago, but i would like to keep the wiki around - i'm happy to try to do some work on making it work with the new infrastructure
10:54:37  <LordAro> i saw something recently that suggested we might be able to actually create a docker image without too much effort
10:54:51  <andythenorth> is mediawiki hosting a thing?
10:54:56  <LordAro> not really
10:55:08  <andythenorth> £1 / month?
10:55:12  * andythenorth googled
10:55:23  <TrueBrain> Not meant rude, but yes, you have said this for a few years now ;) but talk to frosch123 about this :)
10:55:34  <andythenorth> "Get The 20X FASTER MediaWiki Host Featuring High Performance Turbo Servers."  definitely I'm convinced
10:55:36  <andythenorth> 20X
10:55:37  <andythenorth> FASTER
10:55:59  <LordAro>
10:56:21  <frosch123> LordAro: the problem is hosting the database
10:56:26  <frosch123> they are all expensive
10:57:17  <LordAro> and there's nothing magical that AWS provides, i guess?
10:57:28  <frosch123> so, if we keep mediawiki, we will probably keep a vps, and not do it in the cloud
10:58:23  <TrueBrain> And then we need to talk about who is going to maintain that :)
10:58:45  <andythenorth> can't we move it all to fandom?
10:59:10  <LordAro> ugly and full of ads? ew.
10:59:48  <TrueBrain> AWS supports EFS on ECS these days btw (read, shared storage for docker)
11:00:21  <frosch123> hmm, we could make a silly webapp for uploading images to github wiki :p
11:00:43  <TrueBrain> Haha, not super difficult tbh
11:01:04  <TrueBrain> Cannot believe they do not support it ..
11:02:02  <frosch123> oh, looks like gollum supports uploads...
11:02:11  <frosch123> let's try in my local installtion
11:14:59  <frosch123> well, you can upload files, but you cannot update them
11:15:10  <frosch123> you have to delete/rename the old one first
11:16:49  <TrueBrain> Pretty common not?
11:17:44  <frosch123> so you always rename files in your git checkout, before you add the new file with your edits?
11:19:42  <TrueBrain> Lol, that is one way of translating what I said. Not the most productive one, but okay :p but no, most systems don't allow you to overwrite files on upload
11:19:57  <TrueBrain> They either add a (1) or refuse it
11:20:43  <TrueBrain> For wikis you have the added issue you don't know where the image is used .. so that would be a bonus, not to be able to overwrite, not?
11:22:02  <frosch123> when people update images, they replace them with images from newer ottd releases, or (in the past) replaced them with more aggressive png compression
11:22:22  <frosch123> it would be fine, if there was a button "upload update for this upload"
11:22:24  <frosch123> but there isn'T
11:22:48  <frosch123> anyway, i'll ignore the images for now (custom app is possible), and check out how much of the template magic fails
11:23:09  <TrueBrain> people do that? Funny :) Wouldn't expect that :)
11:23:31  <TrueBrain> and if we want, we can always make a PR in gollum I guess :)
11:23:33  <frosch123> current state is that gollum aborts rendering when it does not a single part of some template (which appears stupid)
11:23:38  <frosch123> and it fails with the inter-language links
11:23:45  <frosch123> so most ottd wiki pages currently render as "error" :p
11:23:58  <TrueBrain> which is an upgrade for most pages :D
11:26:27  <frosch123> <- without custom css it looks like that
11:26:42  <andythenorth> sounds like I need to leave the channel now :D
11:26:48  <TrueBrain> that is not bad
11:26:48  <frosch123> :p
11:27:01  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: why?
11:27:17  <frosch123> TrueBrain: "css" is close to "brexit"
11:27:58  <TrueBrain> r/whoosh
11:28:16  <andythenorth> I have a theory about who ends up writing the css
11:29:10  <TrueBrain> ah; well, tnx for volunteering :)
11:29:26  *** DorpsGek_III has joined #openttd
11:29:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain opened pull request #60: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings
11:31:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #60: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings
11:31:24  <TrueBrain> cool, vscode inserted my credentials correctly when I wanted to push via the Terminal inside vscode .. that makes me happy :)
11:32:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] LordAro approved pull request #60: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings
11:32:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #60: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings
11:34:02  <TrueBrain> LordAro: anyway, to get back to mediawiki: I personally really do not care how we solve the wiki. Fact is, the current setup cannot survive :) So far frosch123 is the only one who actively has been busy looking for a solution :)
11:36:44  <andythenorth> unrelated, I'm assuming coop devzone is dead?
11:38:14  <frosch123> it is undead
11:38:50  <frosch123> sometimes parts that were killed before start moving again in some weird way
11:54:46  *** Laedek has quit IRC
12:31:13  *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd
12:41:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain opened pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together
12:41:50  <TrueBrain> very likely I forgot to write things down, but lets update the documentation when we get questions about stuff not documented
12:42:07  <TrueBrain> this should resolve my promise to LordAro to document it better :)
12:42:32  <TrueBrain> but do tell me if this isn't the case :)
12:44:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together
12:45:39  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: if you have some time, I would love to know if documentation like this (start at helps out understand the amount of repos involved :)
12:48:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] pyup-bot opened pull request #62: Config file for
12:49:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] pyup-bot opened pull request #63: Initial Update
12:51:03  <TrueBrain> guess pyup has to do, till GitHub can create a single PR for all updates ..
12:51:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #24: Config file for
12:52:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #25: Initial Update
12:52:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #36: Config file for
12:52:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #37: Initial Update
12:53:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] pyup-bot opened pull request #7: Config file for
12:53:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] pyup-bot opened pull request #8: Initial Update
12:57:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together
12:58:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] FLHerne commented on pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together
12:58:30  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I really cannot remember any discussion around hyphens. Only around plural :P
12:58:37  <TrueBrain> I am fine with what-ever, so I will change it :)
12:59:01  <frosch123> i am not sure how helpful the paragraph on the byte-swapping of unique-ids is.
12:59:13  <frosch123> it may be more confusing than helpful :p
12:59:35  <frosch123> maybe just call it "human-readable" format (which may include byte-swapping)
12:59:40  <TrueBrain> nice :D
13:01:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together
13:05:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 approved pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together
13:05:17  <frosch123> unless you want to wait for the customers
13:05:21  <frosch123> to read it
13:33:38  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
13:37:27  <TrueBrain> it is a beginning. I rather receive requests :)
13:37:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together
13:39:16  *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd
13:39:20  <supermop_Home> yo
13:41:36  <andythenorth> yo
13:41:59  <supermop_Home> weekend of no trains
13:42:13  <supermop_Home> only comical numbers of subarus
13:46:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain opened pull request #64: Fix: move text about documentation to top of README
13:46:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #26: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings
13:46:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain opened pull request #38: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS
13:46:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain opened pull request #9: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS
13:46:59  <TrueBrain> SO MANY COMMITS :P
13:47:49  <nielsm> f-strings sounds dirty
13:48:37  <TrueBrain> really?
13:48:48  <TrueBrain> so does the language D I guess? :)
13:52:35  <TrueBrain> Also: for review
13:53:24  <_dp_> hm, weird, when I generate temperate 2030 game sometimes Dash(Diesel) is available and sometimes it isn't...
13:55:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 approved pull request #64: Fix: move text about documentation to top of README
13:56:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] frosch123 approved pull request #26: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings
13:57:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 approved pull request #38: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS
13:57:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] frosch123 approved pull request #9: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS
13:58:00  <frosch123> revenge spm
13:58:03  <frosch123> *spam
13:58:15  <TrueBrain> <3
13:58:27  <LordAro> _dp_: right on the edge of expiring, perhaps?
13:58:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #64: Fix: move text about documentation to top of README
13:58:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #26: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings
13:58:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain merged pull request #38: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS
13:59:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain merged pull request #9: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS
13:59:10  <TrueBrain> revenge revenge spam :)
13:59:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #27: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS
13:59:51  <TrueBrain> and one more :) (last one, I promise)
14:00:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] frosch123 approved pull request #27: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS
14:01:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #27: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS
14:01:37  <TrueBrain> right, that should resolve most of the "I do not understand BaNaNaS" questions :)
14:01:53  <_dp_> LordAro, yeah, looks like it
14:02:08  <_dp_> weird that it outlasts all other rail engines by 10 years though
14:02:19  <TrueBrain> who are you calling weird?
14:04:52  <LordAro> CS, probably
14:22:05  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Nice, thanks
14:22:23  <TrueBrain> :)
14:24:47  <_dp_> what does sort() in nml do?
14:24:55  <_dp_> sort(FEAT_TRAINS, [item_rail_EARLY_01, item_rail_EARLY_02, ...
14:25:22  <frosch123> it defines the order of trains in the purchase list
14:25:42  <_dp_> ah, ty
14:26:31  *** GroovyNoodle has quit IRC
14:31:28  *** Laedek has joined #openttd
14:32:25  *** glx has joined #openttd
14:32:25  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
15:40:23  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
16:37:54  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
16:52:02  *** Progman has joined #openttd
16:52:03  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:03:29  *** Flygon has quit IRC
17:06:31  <Gustavo6046> Why do the locks look like antigravity water slopes?
17:08:08  <nielsm> because anything more advanced would be annoying to code
17:09:40  <Gustavo6046> Ah
17:09:44  <Gustavo6046> I'm sure you can make building sprites look deeper than the actual tiles they're located in.
17:09:58  <Gustavo6046> "Anamorphism" is a stretch. It's.. just sprites. There are only four angles.
17:10:10  <Gustavo6046> Oh wait
17:10:12  <Gustavo6046> you mean like
17:10:18  <Gustavo6046> the throughput of multiple ships?
17:10:30  <Gustavo6046> I think bottlenecking at locks could be a pretty nice balancing tool!
17:10:36  <Gustavo6046> Maybe make it opt-in in the Limitations menu.
17:19:48  <nielsm> all kinds of problems, multiple ships is one of them
17:21:27  <glx> they can pile up everywhere anyway
17:26:34  <Gustavo6046> Ah
17:26:36  <Gustavo6046> Yeah
17:26:56  <Gustavo6046> nielsm: so no multi-staged locks?
17:27:06  <Gustavo6046> or whatever it's called
17:27:11  <Gustavo6046> one that goes up and down
17:27:16  <Gustavo6046> Why not just have a bunch of ships go in?
17:27:19  <Gustavo6046> Kinda like a shopping mall lift
17:27:33  <Gustavo6046> 65535 ships go in, lock goes up, 65535 ships go out
17:27:52  <nielsm> and then you'd want single-direction locks?
17:27:57  <Gustavo6046> ?
17:27:58  <Gustavo6046> Well
17:28:06  <Gustavo6046> we could have a more advanced lock
17:28:08  <nielsm> or ships waiting in fron of the lock if it's at the wrong height atm?
17:28:34  <Gustavo6046> a lift-lock, that starts in a ground canal, and you can add a level up (each level = exponential price), and each level must end in an aqueduct in one of four directions
17:28:52  <Gustavo6046> or nah
17:28:54  <Gustavo6046> nevermind
17:28:59  <Gustavo6046> nielsm: single-direction?
17:29:10  <Gustavo6046> Also, waiting is fine
17:29:16  <Gustavo6046> kinda like train signals
17:29:19  <nielsm> like two locks side by side and one only goes up and one only down
17:29:33  <Gustavo6046> ah
17:29:35  <Gustavo6046> could be nicee
17:29:40  <Gustavo6046> but then that would be two individual locks
17:30:03  <Gustavo6046> I did suggest at one point having a more hierarchical graph-based approach to ship pathfinding, where waypoints (buoys, docks, locks, etc) would be nodes in a graph, and the tile pathfinder would merely find and cache paths between those
17:30:32  <Gustavo6046> it would split cached paths into regions of 8x8 or something along these lines, so a single region change only needs an update in those particular path sections
17:30:35  <Gustavo6046> that would be efficient
17:30:40  <Gustavo6046> but I digress, that's on a more technical side
17:31:03  <Gustavo6046> the point is, with graphs, having "signals" internally to tell ships to wait would be trivial
17:31:27  <Gustavo6046> and really it would basically go unnoticed by the player, thanks to something called noclip (which all ships seem to have lol)
17:31:31  <Gustavo6046> idspispopd
17:31:50  <Gustavo6046> nielsm: locks could be one-way, but then that would be opt-in
17:32:01  <Gustavo6046> dropdown -> "Both" "Up" "Down"
17:32:06  <Gustavo6046> I want to try to implement that
17:32:15  <Gustavo6046> on the other hand I don't think I can do any actual improvements to existing OpenTTD pathfinders
17:32:26  <Gustavo6046> and I don't want to implement a new tile-based pathfinder, just a high-level pathfinder that uses that
17:32:31  <Gustavo6046> nodes -> regions -> tiles
17:32:44  <Gustavo6046> regions can be updated individually without having to update the entire path
17:33:09  <Gustavo6046> also, are contributions accepted via patch submission, or GitHub pull requests, or?
17:33:32  <nielsm> if you take the approach that water pathfinding features (like bouys and docks) are part of a graph and you only pathfind on that graph
17:34:00  <Gustavo6046> yes
17:34:01  <Gustavo6046> that is the point
17:34:06  <Gustavo6046> then
17:34:23  <nielsm> it would make sense that this graph is made by a simple nearest neighbors algorithm kind of thing, i.e. a bouy just searches for the nearest 3 neighbors or a max distance whichever is hit first
17:34:31  <Gustavo6046> yeah
17:34:56  <Gustavo6046> nielsm: additionally, we could have those waypoints cache all reachable water tiles in a radius of up to 20 or something
17:35:08  <Gustavo6046> or uh nevermind
17:35:23  <Gustavo6046> but we could add an upper limit to the length of a path between two nodes
17:35:31  <Gustavo6046> something between 30 and 50 or something
17:35:37  <Gustavo6046> have it be adjustable (and opt-out, of course!)
17:35:45  <Gustavo6046> and buoys would serve as pathnodes
17:35:53  <Gustavo6046> it wouldn't be a per-tile search based limit so
17:36:15  <Gustavo6046> also, I don't know how comfortable I am in writing my contributions in C++ in contrast to Rust, but I will try my best
17:36:48  *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
17:36:48  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
17:43:43  *** tokai has quit IRC
17:48:55  <andythenorth> rust conversion :P
17:49:52  <Gustavo6046> lol
17:49:56  <Gustavo6046> ?
17:49:58  <Gustavo6046> anyway
17:50:37  <Gustavo6046> also, if I have a peninsula with rails on it, what is the best way to get ships across it (more efficient than going round)? Two spires with locks and an aqueduct?
17:50:48  <Gustavo6046>
17:52:46  <nielsm> I guess you could lower the inside part of the peninsula so you can build aqueduct over it
17:52:48  <Gustavo6046> Imagine underground aqueducts
17:52:50  <Gustavo6046> Ah
17:52:57  <Gustavo6046> Lower?
17:53:21  <Gustavo6046> Like this?
17:53:22  <nielsm> lower the inside part to sea level
17:53:25  <Gustavo6046> Oh
17:53:30  <Gustavo6046> But then how do I put rails
17:53:32  <Gustavo6046> oh
17:53:34  <Gustavo6046> I get it
17:53:38  <nielsm> so you don't need two locks on each end
17:53:40  <Gustavo6046> the sea level part does not have water
17:53:46  <Gustavo6046> because it's sealed by terrain
17:53:51  <Gustavo6046> but this is sea level
17:54:09  <Gustavo6046>
17:54:33  <Gustavo6046> but I think I got it
17:54:40  <Gustavo6046> I have to lower the rails down but not let water get in
17:54:45  <Gustavo6046> and then I only need two locks, not four?
17:54:48  <Gustavo6046> I mean in total
17:54:51  <nielsm> yes
17:54:51  <Gustavo6046> so one in each end
17:54:54  <Gustavo6046> nice
17:55:01  <Gustavo6046> thanks!
17:55:13  <nielsm> since locks slow down ships significantly
17:55:19  <Gustavo6046> also there are already maglevs but I have this one crappy monorail line I'm a bit lazy to change lol
17:56:00  <Gustavo6046> Oh wait
17:56:07  <Gustavo6046> I just found out.. it turns out those aren't my rails
17:56:25  <Gustavo6046> AdmiralAI
17:56:32  <nielsm> heh
17:56:33  <Gustavo6046> I wonder what is the new state-of-the-art for AI.
17:56:39  <Gustavo6046> I remember Admiral being cool
17:58:53  <Wolf01>
18:05:36  *** urdh has quit IRC
18:05:49  *** urdh has joined #openttd
18:11:10  <Gustavo6046> Wolf01: we have one here in Porto Alegre
18:11:19  <Gustavo6046> but it's a more modern one so
18:11:22  <Gustavo6046> it works
18:11:24  <Gustavo6046> :D
18:16:56  *** urdh has quit IRC
18:30:13  *** urdh has joined #openttd
18:56:58  *** b_jonas has joined #openttd
19:05:17  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
20:11:41  <andythenorth> oh frosch come back :P
20:11:47  * andythenorth has ponies
20:23:04  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
20:25:13  <Eddi|zuHause> he always disappears way too early for a meaningful conversation :p
20:33:53  <andythenorth> wise
20:40:36  * andythenorth wonders if we need a format painter mode
20:40:58  <andythenorth> modifying appearance of individual trains is desirable
20:41:10  <andythenorth> modifying appearance of many trains at once is desirable
20:41:22  <andythenorth> this seems to point to some kind of painter tool, on a group basis
20:51:23  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
20:54:07  *** GT has joined #openttd
21:19:04  <andythenorth> Wolf01
21:22:11  *** nielsm has quit IRC
21:41:21  <_dp_>
21:47:27  <andythenorth> haxor!
21:58:24  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> Wolf01 <- whoa, that's huge
21:58:44  <andythenorth> 2px taller than UK Horse
21:59:06  <andythenorth> pretty rad
22:01:33  <andythenorth> also bed
22:01:35  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
22:15:10  *** Progman has quit IRC
22:15:55  *** GT has left #openttd
22:23:16  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
22:42:42  *** gelignite has quit IRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk