Log for #openttd on 20th August 2020:
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07:18:42  <andythenorth> yo
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08:07:53  <Wolf01> ahahaha the title is wrong, the car need to be red, red is speed
08:26:52  <andythenorth>
08:27:00  <andythenorth> colour me surprised
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08:57:18  <LordAro> andythenorth: nice
09:05:56  <andythenorth> it's TrueBrain!
09:12:39  <TrueBrain> are you spying on me?
09:13:04  <andythenorth> the logs are
09:13:09  <andythenorth> unreliably
09:13:16  <TrueBrain> :D
09:13:30  <TrueBrain> well, given you timed it at the same moment I started my client, that was a bit scary :(
09:14:25  <andythenorth> I should bet on some horses
09:14:32  <andythenorth> clearly my daily RNG seed is good
09:14:45  <andythenorth> I really do think we get a daily RNG in life
09:16:00  <TrueBrain> copying to an external disk with 100MB/s .. I have seen worse
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10:03:42  <dihedral> hello
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10:20:44  <TrueBrain> hi
11:32:25  <TrueBrain> why is the MSU protocol so idiotic :(
11:32:31  <TrueBrain> the deregister packet doesn't contain the server key :(
11:50:14  <TrueBrain> looking into DynamoDB, as it seems an obvious cheap solution for the MSU .. but boy, that needs another way of thinking :P
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12:46:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ecolortest opened issue #8296: Non-latin text language not showing
12:48:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8296: Non-latin text language not showing in mac os
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14:17:20  <TrueBrain> MSU is weird .. every 15 minutes, a server announces itself to the MSU
14:17:28  <TrueBrain> every 5 minutes, the MSU polls the server if it is still alive
14:17:34  <TrueBrain> I am somewhat tempted to drop the last part
14:18:00  <LordAro> does seem a bit redundant
14:18:02  <TrueBrain> I wonder what we lose .. well, except that servers can remain online for ~20 minutes after they go offline (5 minute grave period)
14:18:14  <TrueBrain> I think the idea behind it was to mark servers offline earlier than the broadcasts
14:19:04  <TrueBrain> but in the worst case, there are entries in the serverlist for 20 minutes that you cannot fetch information about .. I mean .. not the worst problem
14:20:06  <TrueBrain> dropping the "query" part would simplify the implementation a lot
14:20:39  <LordAro> could decrease the announce interval?
14:20:46  <TrueBrain> hardcoded in the client
14:20:59  <LordAro> client can be changed
14:21:00  <TrueBrain> so only for new versions we can do that :)
14:21:05  <TrueBrain> but .. does it matter?
14:21:07  <TrueBrain> 15 minutes sounds fine
14:21:09  <LordAro> probably not
14:21:36  <TrueBrain> I mean, literally the worst thing that would happen is: you announce yourself, your server crashes, and you stay in people's network list for 20 more minutes ... where the client cannot fetch even the servername
14:25:13  <TrueBrain> but in general, so many things are ... outdated, when it comes to the MSU :)
14:32:30  <TrueBrain> okay, the current MSU already removes your server if you stop advertising, after 20 minutes
14:33:02  <TrueBrain> so the updater really only gives better information about the server over time .. every 5 minutes instead of every 15 minutes :)
14:33:21  <TrueBrain> guess that for my replacement MSU, I am going to skip that part for now :)
14:34:10  <TrueBrain> (as it is rather complicated the implement .. 1 server can have multiple IPs, which are all queried for an update, most of the time close at the same time, where "offline" becomes a bit of a difficult statement .. if 1 IP doesn't respond, does that make the server offline? Etc .. lot of code currently taking care of all those edge-cases)
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14:37:02  <TrueBrain> _dp_: you run servers .. do you have an opinion on this? :)
14:40:26  <_dp_> hi, I think rationale behind the query from msu was to check that server can actually be joined (i.e. port forwarding)
14:41:36  <_dp_> which seems totally reasonable thing to have
14:42:15  <_dp_> except I have a sneaking suspicion that it sometimes fail and servers disappear from the list but that's a slightly different story
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14:54:13  <TrueBrain> yeah, but that already happens on registering :)
14:54:23  <TrueBrain> when you start the server, it first checks if the ports are available, before adding them
14:54:32  <TrueBrain> so we don't lose that functionality
14:54:44  <TrueBrain> added bonus, the scenario you describe won't happen again, as the server will simply retry :)
14:55:01  <TrueBrain> (well, the updater tries 3 times too, but the server never sees it when they don't succeed)
14:55:08  <TrueBrain> another reason not to do the updater
14:55:26  <TrueBrain> from what I can tell, the only loss really is the resolution of the info on
14:55:38  <TrueBrain> guess we can simply try to do it without, and see what breaks :P
14:56:04  <TrueBrain> URLs of are going to change anyway, so people scraping the HTML will have to redo their work :)
14:56:32  <TrueBrain> who maintains that website that shows graphs about how many people were online? :)
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15:15:27  <_dp_> well, one on citymania is obv me, so it's not a problem
15:15:37  <_dp_> one on novapolis is TheDude I'd guess
15:15:47  <_dp_> and there may be some else I don't remember
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15:42:40  <TrueBrain> Well, you get a real API for it in return .. so hopefully that is easy to fix :D
15:43:32  <_dp_> yeah, api would be much better
15:43:37  <_dp_> though I was kind of thinking to do a server scan myself
15:44:19  <_dp_> actually, iirc novapolis does server scan so shouldn't be affected
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17:01:02  <TrueBrain> okay, that heavily simplified the MSU. Got most of it working now .. no clue what it is going to do for the costs, but we have some room to find that out :)
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17:01:32  <TrueBrain> I see the light at the end of the tunnel now :D
17:02:12  <frosch123> maybe there is a fire
17:02:40  <TrueBrain> wow ... writing the inode table on this disk is taking for ever .. what is going on ..
17:06:26  <TrueBrain> okay, time to export some old VMs of our cluster and store it in cold storage :)
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18:01:05  <frosch123> running an aggressive gc reduced the wiki repo size from 1GB to 600MB
18:01:16  <frosch123> "git log" is still slow though
18:17:52  <TrueBrain> :D
18:17:58  <TrueBrain> I am not really surprised, I have to admit :P
18:18:13  <TrueBrain> how many files btw? (in HEAD)
18:21:13  <frosch123> <- depends how many namespace we will delete
18:21:40  <frosch123> also 239 pages in "Mediawiki talk" is ridiculous
18:22:09  <TrueBrain> BaNaNaS also got slow with 40k files
18:22:13  <TrueBrain> guess that is also part of the reason :)
18:22:50  <frosch123> well, it's more like i am using it in a weird way
18:23:31  <frosch123> "git log" takes 1.3s. "git log MainPage" takes 81s
18:23:46  <frosch123> apparently git has to extract all diffs to know whether a commit touches a file
18:25:58  <b_jonas> frosch123: is that because it tries to detect merges?
18:26:57  <frosch123> is that a question or an answer?
18:27:12  <frosch123> does not sound plausible to me.
18:27:15  <b_jonas> I dunno
18:27:28  <b_jonas> I don't understand git
18:27:56  <b_jonas> do you have any suspicious options in git config -l or git config --global -l ?
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21:01:53  <b_jonas> these local authorities value trees to be worth so much more than houses and roads.
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21:14:09  <FLHerne> yup
21:19:20  <andythenorth> bbhmm
21:20:19  <supermop_Home> yo
21:30:13  * andythenorth draws trains
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22:32:34  <b_jonas> I'm trying to figure out if it would be worth to replace my goods maglevs with vac trains
22:32:47  <b_jonas> but goods don't spoil quickly, so the speed gives only limited advantages
22:33:04  <b_jonas> and apart from that, the maglev is somewhat more expensive and has a somewhat smaller capacity
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