Log for #openttd on 9th September 2020:
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08:33:39  <andythenorth> Timberwolf bonus points for the BBC Basic intro
11:08:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] FilmBoy84 commented on issue #59: Base-music tarballs created are incompatible with OpenTTD client
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13:18:45  <Timberwolf> andythenorth: That whole series was so well observed. Even the incidental props like the Look Around You textbook were exactly right.
13:19:59  <andythenorth> we made this, which in retrospect may have been subliminally influenced by Look Around You
13:20:07  <andythenorth> I don't remember ever watching Look Around You though
13:23:52  <Timberwolf> Do they still have the old public information films in schools, or did someone realise that showing something like "Apaches" to 6 year old children is a bit on the strong side?
13:27:57  <Timberwolf> was a good one.
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14:12:01  <andythenorth> we had one about not playing on the pit tips
14:12:14  <andythenorth> and they used to send a train driver round to talk to us about not playing on the train lines
14:12:22  <andythenorth> with graphic stories of running someone over
14:16:08  <FLHerne> This one was good
14:17:03  <FLHerne> Hm, I'm sure there was another bit
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17:26:19  <andythenorth> I read an interesting forest management post
17:26:25  <andythenorth> might be nonsense
17:26:49  <andythenorth> but analyses the lack of natural burning in California in the last ~100 years due to human fire suppression
17:26:56  <andythenorth> and the resulting fuel load that has stockpiled
17:27:13  <andythenorth> and the fire-suppression-contractor business in CA
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18:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "man's very existence is linked to the white element"... maybe they're gonna want to redo that sencence? :p
18:18:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm not convinced i'm learning anything from that video
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18:24:50  <andythenorth> well done :)
18:24:54  <andythenorth> you are doing it correctly
18:28:28  <Eddi|zuHause> well, they did mispronounce "milchig"
18:30:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i like the "can you guess <X>? [small pause] Correct." thing, which nobody viewing can possibly be correct about :p
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18:34:26  <Eddi|zuHause> also, that probably 30-something year old guy posing as a student. :)
18:36:35  <supermop_Home> hi andythenorth
18:37:05  <andythenorth> hi
18:37:34  <TrueBrain> can someone approve ? I kinda broke the download on live BaNaNaS now :D
18:38:13  <TrueBrain> frosch123: would you be able to look over the bugs_in_prod branches of yesterday, so I can move the new master-server to production for testing tomorrow? :D
18:38:35  <supermop_Home> andythenorth there's at least one kind of bunk climatologist post making the rounds lately on that, if that's the one you're talking about
18:38:37  <TrueBrain> s/production/pre-production/ :)
18:39:06  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: now. i'm obliged to present you with ... an ACTUAL educational video
18:39:35  <andythenorth> supermop_Home this was from a forest manager advocating that CA forests naturally burnt on an annual basis
18:39:43  <andythenorth> and that we have suppressed that
18:39:50  <andythenorth> and we're not practicing controlled burn
18:40:02  <supermop_Home> wondering - hinoki soap smells good, but kind of like creosote... can you make anti-inflamatories out of pine tar/creosote? or does it have to be coal?
18:40:22  <andythenorth> there is a lot on wikipedia about creosote / tar
18:40:29  <andythenorth> I read it for FIRS, but I forget the details
18:40:39  <TrueBrain> owh, wait, that BaNaNaS PR I can overrule, w00p, good enough :)
18:40:41  <supermop_Home> i want my fancy artisanal hinoki acetaminophen
18:41:07  <frosch123> TrueBrain: just curious, did you reupload the tarball?
18:41:11  <frosch123> or did the author do that
18:41:12  <TrueBrain> yes
18:41:16  <TrueBrain> I did
18:41:37  <TrueBrain> I created the tarball on my local machine by running a dev-version of BaNaNaS, and overwrote the S3 file
18:41:42  <TrueBrain> I forgot the filesize was slightly bigger :P
18:41:56  <TrueBrain> ty kind frosch123  :)
18:41:57  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_Home: it's organic chemistry. you can transform everything to everything, it's just carbon and hydrogen in various structures, sprinkled in with a bit of oxygen and nitrogen
18:42:06  <supermop_Home> Neutrogena makes a coal tar dandruff shampoo.... i feel like that would sell a lot better if it was 'pine extract' or whatever
18:42:09  <frosch123> TrueBrain: <- does the guy already know?
18:42:30  <TrueBrain> I am about to reply to him about it, so no :P
18:42:38  <TrueBrain> there is a reason why I was doing this ;)
18:42:57  <andythenorth> organic chemistry is nuts
18:43:20  <andythenorth> I really didn't understand the extent that we can A <-> B <-> C in industrial processes
18:43:36  <andythenorth> as long as we have catalysts and energy
18:43:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server] frosch123 approved pull request #4: Several bugs found while bringing this to production
18:44:16  <frosch123> i think i already looked at that the other day... and forgot to press the approve button :p
18:44:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on issue #59: Base-music tarballs created are incompatible with OpenTTD client
18:44:33  <frosch123> or you had a very similar PR in some other repo
18:44:38  <TrueBrain> I do :)
18:44:42  <TrueBrain> master-server-web has one too :D
18:47:33  <TrueBrain> to be precise :D It looks very similar .. just the content is completely different :P
18:48:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] frosch123 commented on pull request #5: Several bugs found while bringing this to production
18:49:39  <TrueBrain> frosch123: in this case I used "None", as "filter" can never be None if the function was called via Flask
18:49:48  <TrueBrain> it can only be None if it is called via the other function
18:49:58  <TrueBrain> but I can split it in a new function, and call that from both
18:50:00  <TrueBrain> might be cleaner
18:50:11  <frosch123> what does flask for "/listing/" ?
18:50:26  <frosch123> is it servers_all, servers("") or 404?
18:51:10  <TrueBrain> euuh .. no clue!
18:51:15  <TrueBrain> but in my new code it will list all :P
18:51:52  <frosch123> sure, but some places test for " != None", while other just do the bool test
18:52:34  <frosch123> or "== None" in one place even
18:52:58  <frosch123> does jinja compare with None?
18:53:01  <TrueBrain> ah, no /listing/ gives a 404
18:53:04  <TrueBrain> Flask is rather strict it seems :)
18:53:32  <TrueBrain> "== None" is because Jinja is odd .. but I am going to remove the Nones :)
18:53:52  <frosch123> i would have expected the "", not the 404 :)
18:54:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain updated pull request #5: Several bugs found while bringing this to production
18:55:04  <TrueBrain> there, that should be a bit more clean
18:55:31  <TrueBrain> it was indeed a bit messy :)
18:57:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] frosch123 approved pull request #5: Several bugs found while bringing this to production
18:57:27  <TrueBrain> ty frosch123 , much appreciated! Going to merge them tomorrow if I enabled auto-deployments on them :)
18:57:55  <TrueBrain> I am going to be so happy if I can disable the old master-server .. means only very minor things are running on the old old old VM :)
18:58:03  <TrueBrain> which are easy to migrate away :)
18:58:22  <TrueBrain> like
18:58:29  <TrueBrain> with its last entry from 2013 ..
18:59:07  <TrueBrain> going to add it to the main website I think
18:59:16  <TrueBrain> easy enough
18:59:28  <frosch123> i thought it was already there :o
18:59:36  <TrueBrain> it is not :)
19:00:04  <TrueBrain> and I think, except for some redirect domains, that is everything there is on the old old old VM .. hmm .. that will be interesting to investigate if that is true :P
19:00:23  <TrueBrain> well, I only have to check the web-server config and the router configuration
19:00:31  <TrueBrain> but I am unsure about all the cronjobs etc etc :P
19:01:15  <frosch123> i guess svn-archive is on the old old vm :p
19:01:26  <TrueBrain> it is .. I just wanted to silently make it die
19:01:36  <TrueBrain> it is now, what, 3 years? since we migrated to GitHub
19:01:38  <TrueBrain> 2.5?
19:02:03  <frosch123> it's the only place that still has pngcodec :p
19:02:27  <frosch123> and the old old website :p
19:02:44  <TrueBrain> do you want to keep it around?
19:02:51  <TrueBrain> (either of the two, or the svn-archive?)
19:02:56  <frosch123> do you think it can deal with the heat of the fire?
19:03:11  <frosch123> TrueBrain: no. otherwise i would have ported it to git
19:03:16  <TrueBrain> fair enough :P
19:03:20  <TrueBrain> okay, so we burn it with some fire :)
19:03:24  <TrueBrain> I do have backups btw ;)
19:03:35  <TrueBrain> I have backups of really everything :P
19:03:51  <TrueBrain> which reminds me, I should setup an automated off-site (off-AWS) backup for BaNaNaS content
19:03:54  <frosch123> be careful with the backup wifes
19:04:11  <TrueBrain> I don't have a wife, so that solved that issue :D
19:04:26  <TrueBrain> it was a close call, I have to say :P
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19:04:48  <TrueBrain> nice troll btw, I have to remember that one :)
19:05:42  <TrueBrain> right, hopefully I can finish that this weekend :D After that .. eints and wiki :P
19:05:46  <TrueBrain> (sorry ..)
19:06:27  <TrueBrain> owh, and DorpsGek ! That will be a fun project :D
19:06:33  <frosch123> i should look into eints. next week is cppcon, after the videos are uploaded i will spend too much time watching them :p
19:07:04  <frosch123> did we find anyone who likes ruby yet?
19:07:05  <TrueBrain> the Team repo is ready too; there too I only have to configure GitHub permissions
19:07:22  <TrueBrain> everyone ran away :( You can make an issue out of it on the gollum repo, see if they can help
19:07:45  <frosch123> haha, that's the problem. there are at least 3 repos involved
19:07:58  <frosch123> gollum, github-markup and wikicloth
19:07:59  <TrueBrain> you can always ask them :)
19:08:18  <TrueBrain> at least you know they know Ruby :)
19:08:32  <TrueBrain> and if they want people to use their software, they might help out a bit, even outside the scope of their own code
19:08:32  <frosch123> and for some reason i found no logs or anything, so i only have the top-level "it does not work" :(
19:08:52  <TrueBrain> minimal test setup? And if you describe what you tried, mostly people will feel sorry for you and help :D
19:09:16  <TrueBrain> otherwise, share with us what you are trying and what is failing, maybe one of us can take a look
19:10:21  <TrueBrain> make a nice gist out of your problem description :
19:10:22  <TrueBrain> D
19:15:43  <frosch123> TrueBrain:
19:16:08  <frosch123> that creates a gollum wiki mediawiki support
19:16:22  <TrueBrain> I will check it out tomorrow :)
19:16:32  <frosch123> but it fails for any type of template inclusion, even for templates without parameters
19:16:39  <andythenorth> wiki -> fandom :P
19:16:50  <TrueBrain> an example of that is in there?
19:17:04  <frosch123> no :)
19:24:04  <TrueBrain> would you mind adding one? :D
19:24:14  <TrueBrain> as asking me to figure that out ... I am not sure I will ever :P
19:24:24  <TrueBrain> (never did anything with mediawiki)
19:24:33  <TrueBrain> well, install the software, ofc :D
19:26:47  <frosch123> TrueBrain:
19:27:48  <TrueBrain> <3
19:31:32  <frosch123> TrueBrain: in addition to that. i already have a bot that crawls the entire current wiki, and converts it into a gollum compatible git repo
19:31:41  <TrueBrain> nice :D
19:31:52  <frosch123> it needs some fine tuning and testing whether all the templates work. but the api queries work
19:34:07  <frosch123> TrueBrain: oh, in case you wonder. above docker does not auth stuff. that's yet another plugin/gollum fork, that i did not try yet
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19:40:10  <TrueBrain> I was not :P But tnx :D
19:40:18  <TrueBrain> I will check how rusty my Ruby knowledge is :P
19:51:35  <andythenorth> MDM is so fucked up
19:51:51  <andythenorth> in the name of security, it puts huge back doors into your devices
19:52:19  <andythenorth> and then you have the choice of use the vendor's SaaS in the cloud (yay!)
19:52:29  <andythenorth> or Run It On Premise Because Security
19:52:42  <andythenorth> which will probably get fucked up, and you own yourself
19:53:05  <andythenorth> MDM vendor: remotely observe the screen of any managed device on demand
20:13:19  <andythenorth> oh some of this is quite cool though
20:13:26  <andythenorth> there are some neat BYOD solutions
20:13:37  <andythenorth> or I am falling for vendor marketing
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20:36:53  <frosch123> andythenorth: tell your kids to stop emailing info@ottd
20:37:03  <frosch123> "Hey! I've been playing the game for multiple years, and I've really been impressed with your coding for the train pathfinding and signalling. Would it be possible for you to make a version of that for DCC model railroads?"
20:37:24  <andythenorth> oof
20:37:45  <andythenorth> well it would be a project
20:38:10  * andythenorth currently reading many enterprise IT security tutorials
20:38:19  <andythenorth> a world I have successfully avoided so far
20:40:08  <frosch123> i think "enterprise linux" means: we use versions that are so old, that we can use the fixes of later versions to list known bugs. a known documented bug is better than a fixed bug or so
20:42:15  <FLHerne> andythenorth, TrueBrain:
20:44:43  <andythenorth> frosch123 I used to use that approach :|
20:44:49  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: lol :)
20:44:56  <andythenorth> but now I am contractually obliged to install updates rapidly
20:45:11  <andythenorth> which is somewhat optimistic about the quality of OS and application vendors
20:45:27  <andythenorth> like the Apple OS update that enabled root with no password needed
20:45:37  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: he cheats with IoT, that is unfair!
20:46:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: or the rapid os updates that distributed the rapid intel patches, which bricked the cpus
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21:03:45  <andythenorth> yes
21:03:47  <andythenorth> this
21:13:05  <FLHerne> "While our app waits for that API response the user is entertained by a spinning beach ball whose movements are simulated by an embedded physics engine compiled to WebASM and rendered using WebGL. Of course there's a fall back to a purely JavaScript and <marquee> based implementation transpiled from ES 6 to something that works on IE11 because that's the majority of our user base."
21:13:29  <andythenorth> no Flash?
21:14:06  <FLHerne> No, that was 2010
21:15:15  <andythenorth> I think they missed the opportunity to use animated SVG
21:15:22  <andythenorth> or is marquee doing that?
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