Log for #openttd on 24th September 2020:
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00:29:34  <Eddi|zuHause> why is it always night? (also ingame)
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07:00:52  <TrueBrain> that moment you find out eints can only handle a single connection per time ..
07:00:59  <TrueBrain> and if one stalls .. the server becomes unreachable
07:01:00  <TrueBrain> oops :)
07:02:57  <LordAro> heh
07:03:05  <LordAro> rewrite in async!
07:05:50  <TrueBrain> it is more: how can a backlog be set to one? :)
07:19:16  <TrueBrain> meh; frosch rewrote eints login system, and as result, the API bypass we used no longer work .. so the API cannot be controlled by the "translators" user :D
07:19:30  <TrueBrain> a good thing we failed to bring this to production on the VM .. it would never have committed anything :)
07:19:34  <TrueBrain> and it fails kinda silently ..
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07:41:53  <TrueBrain> okay ... atm I am battling how eints works more than anything else :D
07:43:58  <TrueBrain> I upload the base language, but it doesn't do anything ..
07:44:15  <TrueBrain> and bottle is leaking memory
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07:50:06  <TrueBrain> okay, there are errors uploading the base language, which returns a 200, confusing the script thinking: it all went okay! :D
07:53:48  <TrueBrain> finally, found all the quirks and odd things :)
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08:00:49  <LordAro> all of them? :p
08:02:56  <TrueBrain> to get the base language uploaded :P
08:03:05  <TrueBrain> sorry for not being overly specific, context is hard, I know :)
08:05:10  <LordAro> :p
08:05:21  <LordAro> hmm, still getting FORTIFY_SOURCE warnings when compiling OTTD
08:05:30  <LordAro> thought i fixed that..
08:06:24  <TrueBrain> holy crap, bottle uses temporary files for file uploads .. that explains why it is this darn slow :P
08:06:29  <TrueBrain> but okay, these files are also not closed
08:06:32  <TrueBrain> dangling for weeks :)
08:06:59  <TrueBrain> the reference to the file is, however, removed ..
08:07:10  <LordAro> oh dear.
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08:13:54  <TrueBrain> okay .. found a cheesy solution for now
08:14:03  <TrueBrain> seems bottle is also not really developed anymore
08:14:11  <TrueBrain> but we do run behind some versions .. it just doesn't fix this issue :D
08:23:02  <TrueBrain> next up: why the fuck is it using 500MB of RAM :)
08:25:36  <TrueBrain> size=73.5 MiB, count=1481885, average=52 B
08:25:38  <TrueBrain> how many?!
08:26:34  <TrueBrain> death by a thousand needles
08:28:07  <LordAro> nice
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08:35:49  <LordAro> TrueBrain: do you know where in the CI the cmake BUILD_TYPE is set?
08:36:34  <TrueBrain> what does build-type do? No clue :P
08:36:48  <LordAro> debug vs release
08:36:52  <TrueBrain> for MSVC?
08:36:56  <LordAro> for cmake
08:37:12  <LordAro> it's presumably set somewhere...
08:37:16  <TrueBrain> well, cmake for Linux is only executed with:
08:37:17  <TrueBrain> cmake ..
08:37:18  <TrueBrain> for CI
08:37:21  <TrueBrain> and "deb"-shit
08:37:22  <TrueBrain> for releases
08:38:18  <LordAro>
08:38:21  <LordAro> hmm
08:38:28  <LordAro> i don't think we set the release config type anywhere in the CI
08:38:34  <LordAro> which means no optimisation
08:38:40  <TrueBrain> owh, we don't use deb-shit anymore for releases :P
08:38:56  <LordAro> you're sending me mixed signals :p
08:39:00  <TrueBrain> for Windows it is done I believe, something like
08:39:09  <TrueBrain> you are asking me something I worked on ... in Jan 2019
08:39:31  <LordAro> and you should have a perfect memory!
08:39:41  <TrueBrain> haha :D
08:40:47  <TrueBrain> hmm .. from 505MB used RAM to 340MB used RAM with a few simple Python lines
08:40:51  <TrueBrain> at least that is a nice start
08:41:09  <LordAro> :)
08:41:15  <TrueBrain> (you got to love slots)
08:41:24  <TrueBrain> stupid client .. _ _ slots _ _
08:42:38  <LordAro> you must surely be able to turn that off :p
08:42:54  <TrueBrain> anyway, regarding to debug vs release, I know CMake has infrastructure for that
08:43:00  <TrueBrain> so possibly it is handled inside cmake somewhere
08:43:16  <TrueBrain> and possibly it is forgotten and nobody tested it
08:43:27  <LordAro> yeah, i'm fiddling with it a bit - the "default" results in a lot of incorrect-use-of-FORTIFY_SOURCE warnings
08:43:30  <TrueBrain> should be easy enough to validate with the nightlies, I guess :)
08:43:39  <LordAro> there appears to be "","debug" & "release"
08:48:15  <TrueBrain> just the amount of information eints keeps in memory, is the reason for most of the other memory usage
08:48:23  <TrueBrain> not really a lot I can do about that, it seems ..
08:55:16  <TrueBrain> cool, GitHub Actions has changed their UI a bit; much more pleasant on the eye now
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10:32:29  <TrueBrain> frosch123: if you are reading your backlog, eints does something weird that it keeps telling me: "Login successful!", twice, on pages where you can edit strings .. not sure what happened :P
10:32:44  <TrueBrain> and it doesn't go away :D
10:35:09  <TrueBrain> <- it contains :)
10:35:58  <TrueBrain> and changing strings work :)
10:37:09  <TrueBrain> ah, I found how I can duplicate "Login successful!" message :)
10:37:41  <TrueBrain> it only works on a editing a string
10:37:44  <TrueBrain> and just add "?message=Login%20successful%21" behind the url
10:37:46  <TrueBrain> hit F5
10:37:49  <TrueBrain> SO MANY :D
10:38:10  <TrueBrain> "issues" is disabled on the eints repository?
10:38:15  <TrueBrain> one way of not getting bug-reports :D
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12:47:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain opened pull request #10: Various of changes and fixes
12:50:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain opened pull request #11: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
12:51:03  <TrueBrain> there we go .. with these 2 PRs, eints seems to work on staging :)
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16:39:16  <andythenorth> yo
16:39:25  <LordAro> o/
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16:54:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #8315: Codechange: Set CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE to default to debug if not otherwise set
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16:55:13  <LordAro> hmm, i suppose i should look at some of these 72 open PRs
16:55:26  <LordAro> though 4 of them are mine
16:56:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8312: Fix #8311, b98c7763de4: Industry probability at map generation was sc…
16:57:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8305: Fix: Only check houses for cargo when generating subsidies with towns
17:02:49  <LordAro> @seen nielsm
17:02:50  <DorpsGek> LordAro: nielsm was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 23 hours, 39 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <nielsm> probably some regulations with delivery and inspection before they are allowed to run under own power
17:05:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders
17:07:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7328: Feature: Improve restart command
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17:08:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
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17:10:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 approved pull request #10: Various of changes and fixes
17:11:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7376: More than max_no_competitors could be created in network games
17:11:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #7376: More than max_no_competitors could be created in network games
17:14:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] LordAro merged pull request #10: Various of changes and fixes
17:17:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7328: Feature: Improve restart command
17:22:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8266: Feature: Make news and errors close hotkeys configurable
17:23:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8266: Feature: Make news and errors close hotkeys configurable
17:24:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 commented on pull request #11: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
17:25:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7575: Feature: Industry production graph
17:26:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8286: Change: Service depot also reset breakdown chance.
17:29:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7708: Draft Change: Use Squirrel version 3.0.7
17:29:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #7708: Draft Change: Use Squirrel version 3.0.7
17:29:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8312: Fix #8311, b98c7763de4: Industry probability at map generation was sc…
17:29:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #8311: Industry probability differs when set by property versus callback
17:34:25  <LordAro> TrueBrain: do you feel like a break from the python? feel like taking a look at ? it seems like it could be the right solution, but...
17:36:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator
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17:48:31  <frosch123> LordAro: hmm, ai/gs always require a specific version of a library, right? should ottd just never select ai/gs libraries as upgrades?
17:48:37  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am reading the issue and the PR, and it seems I think it is gibberish .. not sure if I am just tired, or that I cannot follow :P
17:49:14  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
17:49:25  <TrueBrain> I will try this again Saturday :)
17:49:48  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i read the backlog. originally we disabled issues on all projects that were ported from devzone, since we did not know whether to migrate issues or not. other than that i do not know which bugs you already fixed, or what i shall look at :)
17:50:12  <TrueBrain> the ?message= I have no clue about
17:50:23  <TrueBrain> it seems to be stored in the session too, but never purged
17:50:29  <TrueBrain> that one is open, and I have not looked into it :)
17:51:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain commented on pull request #11: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
17:52:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain commented on pull request #11: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
17:54:26  <TrueBrain> hmm .. guess if we run it UTC, we should either make the nightly UTC too
17:54:30  <TrueBrain> or put this an hour earlier
17:55:09  <TrueBrain> given the activity of translations, not sure it really matters
17:55:23  <TrueBrain> btw, frosch123 , as you might have spotted, I removed the "hourly" check if OpenTTD had a new commit to update translations
17:55:30  <TrueBrain> pretty sure that currently it is fine to check it every night
17:55:32  <TrueBrain> you agree?
17:56:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain updated pull request #11: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
17:56:41  <frosch123> sure, that was always a waste of resources. i just did not know better :)
17:57:10  <TrueBrain> I was thinking of running an update on every commit
17:57:15  <TrueBrain> but I considered even that a waste of resource :P
17:57:20  <TrueBrain> we can always add that if we like :)
17:57:30  <TrueBrain> guess that means the only question remains: in which repository is this best suited
17:57:47  <TrueBrain> given you can manually trigger it, eints sounds most natural to me, as people might look there first
17:57:58  <TrueBrain> but I agree that the workflow repo can be useful too, as it interconnects repositories of OpenTTD
17:58:03  <TrueBrain> up to you!
17:58:43  <TrueBrain> eints btw still links to openttdcoop on every page; possibly change that to GitHub and open up issues there?
17:59:12  <frosch123> yes, but the manual is only hosted on coop
17:59:31  <frosch123> it can stay like that until it breaks :)
18:00:46  <frosch123> anyway, either we keep eints master as "pure eints free of openttd stuff". or we abandon the idea of the "openttd" branch.
18:01:28  <TrueBrain> I also considered renaming master to something else, dunno, "upstream", and have master only tell about the branches and these few workflows
18:01:52  <frosch123> so, i am "no" to "workflows in master, when openttd branch exists". i am fine with "workflows in workflows repo" or "abandon the openttd branch, do everythnig in master"
18:02:10  <TrueBrain> so for now, workflow repository it is :)
18:02:12  <frosch123> in theory there is also the "openttdcoop" organisation
18:02:14  <LordAro> how feasible is adding a --coop flag to it to do the (minimal) amount of differing behaviour?
18:02:21  <frosch123> which is some kind of zombie graveyard
18:02:25  <TrueBrain> it is not minimal LordAro  :(
18:02:28  <LordAro> :(
18:02:31  <frosch123> but we can transfer eints back there, and then fork it
18:02:51  <TrueBrain> I rather have eints in OpenTTD, where it has some "maintainers"
18:02:58  <TrueBrain> moving it to openttdcoop feels like moving it to a graveyard
18:03:41  <LordAro> i'd suggest a coop branch over an ottd branch
18:03:52  <LordAro> (i.e. swap existing stuff)
18:04:01  <frosch123> LordAro: there is no coop branch
18:04:36  <LordAro> i mean create one
18:04:38  <frosch123> or rather, the coop branch is still hosted on coop as hg queue
18:05:30  <frosch123> the difference between "master" and "openttd" is, that "openttd" says "welcome to openttd webtranslator, visit our homepage, sign up here", while "master" says something like "welccome, you probably want to customize this"
18:05:48  <TrueBrain> master really is upstream of openttd
18:05:51  <TrueBrain> basically
18:05:58  <TrueBrain> and nothing we can really do about that; as that is how software should work :D
18:06:09  <TrueBrain> "openttd" is the implementation
18:06:37  <TrueBrain> ideally, you make "eints" into a pip package
18:06:40  <TrueBrain> and allow overriding
18:06:43  <TrueBrain> but ... now I am pushing it :D
18:07:16  <frosch123> ok, big branch renaming? "master" -> upstream", "openttd" -> "openttd-ldap", "openttd-github" -> "master" ?
18:07:48  <TrueBrain> it will confuse the heck out of people who want to develop for it, just to fix our itch :P
18:07:53  <TrueBrain> I rather put the workflow in another repo
18:08:29  <LordAro> redo the whole eints package so that ottd/ottd-gh/coop stuff can be implemented as a plugin :)
18:08:41  <TrueBrain> or: redo eints :)
18:08:47  <LordAro> WT5 when
18:08:53  <TrueBrain> like bottle sounded like a good idea at the time
18:08:58  <TrueBrain> but it turned out, it was the wrong horse to bet on
18:09:00  <TrueBrain> which happens
18:11:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain opened pull request #6: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
18:12:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain commented on pull request #11: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
18:12:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain closed pull request #11: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
18:13:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain opened pull request #12: Fix: [Actions] label a step the same as the action it performs
18:14:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain opened pull request #7: Codechange: update to latest black coding style
18:15:24  <frosch123> TrueBrain: ah, i made python newbie mistake
18:15:49  <TrueBrain> you did?
18:16:02  <TrueBrain> I make so many .. my editor tends to fix most :P
18:16:06  <frosch123> why does flake not warn about setting mutable objects as default values for parameters? :p
18:16:15  <TrueBrain> oef .. it should
18:16:20  <frosch123> "def foo(bar = []):" is almost always wrong
18:16:23  <TrueBrain> yup
18:16:36  <TrueBrain> it is ONLY valid if 'bar' is set (completely) again .. even then ..
18:16:45  <TrueBrain> weird that flake8 doesn't say NO
18:17:58  <TrueBrain> renamed "openttd" branch to "openttd-ldap"
18:18:05  <TrueBrain> removed "openttd-oauth"
18:18:18  <TrueBrain> can't as it is protected .. lol
18:18:46  <TrueBrain> gone now :P
18:19:42  <TrueBrain> okay, if I made no mistakes, this should "just work" now after merging :)
18:23:36  <TrueBrain> detects those things frosch123  :)
18:25:02  <TrueBrain> it does indeed find your issue :)
18:25:39  <TrueBrain> finds 1 warning in the 5 other repos (bananas / masterserver)
18:25:51  <TrueBrain> and none in DorpsGek
18:25:53  <TrueBrain> so that is not too bad :)
18:30:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 opened pull request #13: Fix: Edit-string page accumulated messages from all users for all users.
18:30:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain approved pull request #13: Fix: Edit-string page accumulated messages from all users for all users.
18:30:44  <TrueBrain> it reads as correct :P
18:31:25  <frosch123> hmm now that i rebased... should i install sentry_sdk, or also start eints only in containers...
18:31:41  <TrueBrain> sentry-sdk is a very small pip package
18:31:52  <TrueBrain> and it is only in openttd-github
18:32:23  <frosch123> no...
18:32:36  <frosch123> i am on master
18:32:57  <TrueBrain> owh, I deployed it on master too
18:32:59  <TrueBrain> hmm, that was unneeded
18:33:01  <TrueBrain> owh well
18:33:17  <TrueBrain> but okay, it is similar to requests_oauthlib
18:33:29  <TrueBrain> so if you installed requests_oauthlib in your venv, you should do sentry-sdk too
18:33:38  <TrueBrain> if you did requests_oauthlib in docker, well, you already using docker :)
18:33:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 merged pull request #13: Fix: Edit-string page accumulated messages from all users for all users.
18:34:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 approved pull request #12: Fix: [Actions] label a step the same as the action it performs
18:35:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain merged pull request #12: Fix: [Actions] label a step the same as the action it performs
18:35:19  <TrueBrain> fixed the commit message :P
18:36:01  <TrueBrain> not via a PR, but any comments on are welcome
18:39:41  <TrueBrain> pretty sure should go to master, but okay :)
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18:41:13  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I am now getting "Access denied" when I want to access my language .. what is this about ..
18:41:44  <frosch123> not team member? wrong api token?
18:42:09  <frosch123> what does your profile page say?
18:42:18  <TrueBrain> that I do not have access to anything
18:42:36  <TrueBrain> owh, I throw away some of my personal tokens today
18:42:43  <TrueBrain> I am guessing that I used that "temporary" :D
18:45:44  <TrueBrain> frosch123: yippie, the messages bug is fixed \o/ :D Nice :)
18:46:01  <TrueBrain> okay, so now the two workflows PRs, and we can test this :D
18:46:10  <frosch123> nice that you found it before we had to make a CVE entry :)
18:46:34  <TrueBrain> :D
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18:46:44  <frosch123> sharing messages between all sessions is the special kind of funny :)
18:46:46  <TrueBrain> "history" of eints is weird .. if I change a string I already changed, it doesn't show in the history
18:47:00  <TrueBrain> it only shows if someone else changed it
18:47:14  <TrueBrain> I assumed the changed-time or what is it called would help in that
18:47:16  <TrueBrain> but it doesn't seem to
18:47:17  <frosch123> it may have to do with that "stable-time" paraemter
18:47:30  <frosch123> but yes, that part is also pretty weird to me
18:47:35  <TrueBrain> it is set to 600 .. it is not 6 hours later, and it still didn't add it to the history :P
18:48:36  <LordAro> coincidentally, i am currently watching Primer
18:49:07  <TrueBrain> not even reviewing my black-fix PRs? Pfft :P :P
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18:51:34  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I see the wiki dude replied ... not really in a way I can understand or process the response
18:51:36  <TrueBrain> but it is a response?
18:52:15  <frosch123> it is a "yes i got your mail" response
18:53:27  <frosch123> i did a ROTATE on the tasks
18:53:54  <TrueBrain> que?
18:54:00  <frosch123> do everything else wiki-related first, before thinking again what to do with the pl stuff
18:54:06  <TrueBrain> ah :D
18:54:08  <TrueBrain> smart ;)
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18:54:14  <TrueBrain> now review my PRs! I want to test this :D
18:56:07  <frosch123> if i do 'return ""' or 'return "yolo"' in health, it creates a 200 response
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18:56:40  <TrueBrain> what I have now also makes the content-type a nice text/plain :)
18:56:54  <TrueBrain> by default bottle makes it a test/html
18:56:54  <frosch123> ok, the "" is text/html :)
18:56:59  <TrueBrain> no clue why ..
18:57:18  <TrueBrain> but okay, bottle has more oddities :)
18:59:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/workflows] frosch123 approved pull request #7: Codechange: update to latest black coding style
18:59:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain merged pull request #7: Codechange: update to latest black coding style
19:00:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain updated pull request #6: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
19:01:00  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/workflows] frosch123 approved pull request #6: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
19:01:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain merged pull request #6: Add: [Actions] export eints to git every night or upon request
19:01:22  <TrueBrain> PAM PAM PAMMMMMM
19:02:16  <TrueBrain>
19:02:17  <TrueBrain> IT WORKS :D
19:03:04  <frosch123> i see, your test translation changes are just as silly as mine :)
19:03:06  <TrueBrain> okay, this makes me really happy :)
19:03:10  <TrueBrain> yes, they are :D
19:03:29  <TrueBrain> as far as I can tell, this means we are ready to move this to production
19:03:33  <TrueBrain> but please do give it a spin yourself :)
19:03:46  <frosch123> it is on testing?
19:03:55  <TrueBrain> <- "Run workflow" button to force an eints->git
19:04:01  <TrueBrain>
19:04:17  <frosch123> hmm. yeah "staging", not "testing" :)
19:04:21  <TrueBrain> staging is linked to eints-sandbox, as you might have guessed
19:04:38  <TrueBrain> the nuance between testing and staging is very thin in the OpenTTD infra ;)
19:06:26  <frosch123> what non-member can we force to test the whole thing from sign-up to edit?
19:06:58  <TrueBrain> Xaroth, but he has too many numbers .. Xaroth65  Xaroth0 .. not sure how many we need
19:07:00  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you look like you want to become a translator
19:07:05  <TrueBrain> that works too :)
19:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause> are you volunteering me? :p
19:07:37  <frosch123> yes :)
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19:07:53  <frosch123> TrueBrain: how did you do that?
19:08:01  <TrueBrain> magic :D
19:08:11  <Eddi|zuHause> do i need to know what you're volunteering me for?
19:08:58  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you go to click "request access" and continue until you can replace german texts with sächsich
19:09:24  <TrueBrain> addition: request access to de_DE please ;)
19:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause> does it matter if i'm not a native sächsisch speaker? :p
19:10:01  <frosch123> no, but staging only supports the important languages like dutch, german and ido
19:10:19  <TrueBrain> ido made me giggle .. no clue what language that is :P
19:10:23  <TrueBrain> I just needed an unstable one :D
19:10:32  <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's a competitor to esperanto
19:10:39  <TrueBrain> frisian was too close to home :P
19:10:45  <TrueBrain> owh ... one more silly language
19:10:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] Eddi-z opened issue #6: [de_DE] Translator access request
19:10:49  <TrueBrain> no wonder it is still unfinished
19:11:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] DorpsGek commented on issue #6: [de_DE] Translator access request
19:11:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #6: [de_DE] Translator access request
19:11:46  <TrueBrain> I am considering muting DorpsGek from announcing DorpsGek shit :P
19:12:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] DorpsGek commented on issue #6: [de_DE] Translator access request
19:12:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] DorpsGek closed issue #6: [de_DE] Translator access request
19:13:44  <TrueBrain> but pretty sure the spam is only for a little while, so possibly not worth the effort :P
19:14:40  <Eddi|zuHause> so i have to manually go to i presume
19:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> *staging
19:14:53  <frosch123> yeah :)
19:15:06  <Eddi|zuHause> as the bot said the non-staging url
19:15:33  <frosch123> the teams are shared with the real thing
19:16:17  <TrueBrain> yeah, I wasn't going to roll out a staging for that :D
19:16:20  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i successfully logged in
19:16:34  <TrueBrain> change something! Anything!
19:17:19  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am not able to import the current eints history btw .. it seems I have to reset it from zero
19:17:31  <TrueBrain> as in, I have not found a way to upload files myself to the persistent volume
19:17:37  <Eddi|zuHause> did that do something?
19:18:23  <TrueBrain> up to frosch to start an export to git ;) :D
19:19:23  <TrueBrain> it might be good to reset the history btw; as the usernames will change, it might be confusing otherwise
19:19:43  <TrueBrain> possibly we can add a link to the new discussion page
19:19:48  <frosch123> TrueBrain: that's fine. as long as the history is not reset everytime the container restarts :)
19:19:57  <TrueBrain> it is not :)
19:20:08  <TrueBrain>
19:20:32  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: thanks :)
19:20:41  <TrueBrain> seems the full-chain test succeeded :D
19:20:43  <TrueBrain> \o/
19:20:58  <TrueBrain> the migrating to AWS went quicker than we both expected, I guess :)
19:21:32  <frosch123> now someone needs to write a bot that can post "/approve" :p
19:21:49  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, i did you know you could have persistent files like that
19:21:52  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: you'll never be able to migrate away from AWS, though :p
19:21:54  <frosch123> *not
19:22:15  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I know it existed, but the stories varied wildly how easy it would be
19:22:18  <TrueBrain> it turns out ... sick easy
19:22:32  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no, it is containerized .. pretty sure I can deploy this in Azure within a week or so :)
19:22:44  <TrueBrain> just ... I do not plan to ever found out :)
19:23:48  <TrueBrain> <- to give you an idea how simple it turned out to be
19:24:22  <TrueBrain> and it will cost us, an estimation, 0.03 dollar per month
19:24:47  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the problem with showing a small solution like this is, it doesn't tell you how difficult it was to arrive at that solution :)
19:25:02  <TrueBrain> well, I planned 40 hours for this; I finished in 6 :P
19:25:30  <TrueBrain> but no, there was no real documentation .. just snippets of information
19:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: definitely charge the full 40 hours :p
19:25:33  <TrueBrain> as with most cloud-related stuff
19:25:36  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the last time tb got any cake-payment was in 2014
19:25:39  <TrueBrain> I can send bills for this?!
19:26:09  <frosch123> <- anything we need to do with that?
19:26:18  <frosch123> you mentioned you ran it on other repos?
19:26:45  <TrueBrain> pip install flake8-bugbear, and run flake8
19:27:08  <TrueBrain> but integrating it in the CI is difficult
19:27:17  <TrueBrain> it was just fun to run it, see if it showed any new things
19:27:26  <TrueBrain> attaching LGTM to eints might be more useful btw
19:27:30  <TrueBrain> LGTM for sure would pick up these things
19:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i feel like it's a bad time to have a cake party
19:28:43  <TrueBrain> LGTM looks at many more of these kind of errors; it is really impressive tbh :)
19:29:32  <TrueBrain>
19:29:37  <TrueBrain> still some minor warnings I need to fix there, for example
19:29:50  <TrueBrain> flake8 is oblivious for them :D
19:31:41  <frosch123> so, do you want to stick with saturday? or move to friday?
19:32:10  <TrueBrain> I am not here tomorrow, so that doesn't sound like a good idea :D
19:32:18  <TrueBrain> Saturday sounds fine by me
19:32:30  <TrueBrain> I have some things to prepare, and we need to run a pre-live test
19:32:34  <frosch123> yay, saturday :)
19:33:40  <frosch123> ah, i can also revoke my pat now...
19:35:56  <TrueBrain> :D Always a good thing to be able to do :)
19:36:33  <frosch123> hmm... so 184 people logged in to bananas once, but only 70 people uploaded something
19:36:52  <TrueBrain> lol
19:36:58  <TrueBrain> we migrated 184 people?
19:37:18  <frosch123> no, we migrated < 70
19:37:29  <TrueBrain> pfew :P
19:37:31  <frosch123> 70 = number of people migrated + new sign ups
19:37:43  <frosch123> 184 people authorized bananas to access their profile
19:38:15  <frosch123> so 114 just pressed login, clicked "yes, allow access", and logged out again
19:38:47  <TrueBrain> or just looked around, curious people etc
19:38:58  <TrueBrain> or got heavily confused by the "upload" form :D
19:39:07  <frosch123> :)
19:39:36  <TrueBrain> but still, I consider BaNaNaS v1.5 successful
19:39:43  <TrueBrain> weekly we have several updates
19:40:00  <TrueBrain> pretty sure Gadg8eer made most :P
19:40:03  <TrueBrain> I see that name a lot :D
19:42:18  <frosch123> 57 versions in 14 newgrf. not yet V level
19:43:12  <TrueBrain> okay, provisioning eints to production already, just so that is already running
19:43:24  <TrueBrain> let's see if it can run in 512MB RAM .. would be nice
19:43:33  <TrueBrain> more is problematic ..
19:44:09  <frosch123> it needs 400 here
19:44:25  <TrueBrain> 350MB after my patches in my last tests
19:44:30  <TrueBrain> (up from 550 .. )
19:44:34  <TrueBrain> hopefully it doesn't spike too much :)
19:50:00  <TrueBrain> right, provisioning is working .. now I have to wait till AWS internally propagate a DNS entry for the EFS .. which oddly enough takes a bit of time :)
19:50:11  <TrueBrain> creating a new EFS volume is near instant (scary fast)
19:50:16  <TrueBrain> but the DNS to the EFS .. poeh
19:53:21  <TrueBrain> importing OpenTTD ..
19:53:24  <TrueBrain> pam pam pammmmm
19:54:31  <TrueBrain> well, it still runs
19:55:40  <TrueBrain> <- for the curious
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19:57:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain created new tag: openttd-github-1.0.0
19:58:01  <TrueBrain> right, lets try this ..
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20:05:13  <TrueBrain> after import eints uses less memory than after a restart
20:05:16  <TrueBrain> that is funny :)
20:05:35  <TrueBrain> the memory profile did show JSON decoder was holding on to 100MB of RAM
20:05:41  <TrueBrain> I was assuming it was strings that were given to other objects
20:05:52  <TrueBrain> but now I start to doubt it, and possibly the JSON loaded objects are kept alive
20:05:58  <TrueBrain> something to check out saturday :P
20:09:33  <TrueBrain> so because eints runs as a single instance, a deployment means a slight downtime
20:09:36  <TrueBrain> pretty sure we survive
20:11:14  <frosch123> the commit scripts also cause downtime
20:11:43  <frosch123> downloading all those langfiles blocks everything :)
20:11:51  <TrueBrain> and, and because you switched to cookies, you are also logged out
20:12:17  <TrueBrain> but because of GitHub, anything that requires access will auto-login
20:12:46  <TrueBrain> it is a pretty good user experience tbh
20:12:49  <frosch123> you still have to reenter the translation you were working on (i think)
20:13:09  <frosch123> anyway, we do not have 100s of concurrent translators :)
20:13:16  <TrueBrain> <- memory usage :)
20:13:33  <TrueBrain> 100% = 512MB
20:13:38  <frosch123> what are the colors?
20:13:53  <TrueBrain> max, avg, min
20:14:12  <TrueBrain> the blue line is important ;)
20:14:23  <TrueBrain> the first peak is after import, the second after a restart
20:15:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/workflows] TrueBrain opened pull request #8: Add: [Actions] enable eints-to-git for production
20:15:57  <TrueBrain> okay, I think everything is set for a launch on Saturday :)
20:17:06  <frosch123> \o/
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20:18:49  <TrueBrain> we let it run till then to spot any running issue
20:18:54  <TrueBrain> but I am pretty happy :)
20:19:16  <TrueBrain> now the question .. can we disable saturday? It would mean nobody can signup for a new account for the wiki :P
20:20:47  <frosch123> or reset their passwords :)
20:21:53  <TrueBrain> looking at it from a risk perspective, it is worth blocking the very very unlikely event someone would want to do that :)
20:24:01  <TrueBrain> hmm, I cannot spot 1-2-3 why a reload uses so much more memory
20:24:35  <frosch123> anyway, eints does not need accounts either. so you could already have stopped it a week ago
20:24:48  <TrueBrain> valid point
20:24:56  <TrueBrain> well, I will have a very happy weekend in that case :P
20:25:08  <TrueBrain> and I will have to download a snapshot of a 600GB VM :P
20:25:17  <TrueBrain> does that really mean I can shut down Debian Etch?
20:25:20  <TrueBrain> :D \o/ :D
20:25:38  <frosch123> ldap and mail runs in a different vm?
20:25:53  <TrueBrain> yes
20:25:59  <TrueBrain> MySQL and LDAP have both their own VM
20:26:07  <TrueBrain> mail too, one for storing and one for spam filtering
20:26:16  <TrueBrain> dev-spaces is on yet another
20:26:33  <frosch123> etch is only old^6stable
20:26:35  <TrueBrain> there are a few things still served by that very old VM, mostly things like redirects
20:26:44  <TrueBrain> well, it is also Django 1.2 :P
20:27:01  <TrueBrain> what is mode "t" in open() ?
20:27:12  <frosch123> line end conversion?
20:27:17  <TrueBrain> owh, text .. lol
20:27:26  <TrueBrain> "r" === "rt"
20:27:38  <frosch123> can't remember whether python3 ignores it
20:28:01  <TrueBrain> ignoring is a big word, it just has no additional effect :)
20:28:22  <frosch123> it's important in C on dos and windows
20:28:56  <frosch123> always funny how much dos is still in windows :)
20:29:10  <TrueBrain> in Python, you have to be explicit to use binary mode
20:29:13  <TrueBrain> text mode is otherwise implied
20:29:18  <TrueBrain> which .. I never like, those implicit shit :P
20:29:29  <frosch123> isn't it the other way around?
20:29:41  <frosch123> you have to set an encoding, or you will get Bytes ?
20:29:52  <TrueBrain>
20:30:00  <TrueBrain> 't' - text mode (default)
20:30:21  <TrueBrain> The default mode is 'r' (open for reading text, synonym of 'rt')
20:31:04  <TrueBrain> okay, it is the "changes" that consume so much memory
20:31:36  <TrueBrain> ah, it contains all the current strings too
20:31:39  <TrueBrain> hihi, "changes" .. :D
20:32:47  <TrueBrain> lol .. the base language is in memory for all the languages too
20:33:55  <frosch123> don't ask me whether they can differ :)
20:34:11  <TrueBrain> I am still a bit puzzled why a restart consumes so much more memory
20:35:06  <TrueBrain> but at least Python is smart in that if you move strings from one object to another, it doesn't copy it
20:35:15  <TrueBrain> so it tells me the JSON decoder is using most memory
20:35:18  <TrueBrain> which is not really the case
20:35:35  <frosch123> TrueBrain: didn't you just answer that?
20:35:53  <frosch123> when you upload a language, it matches it against the baselanguage, so the same string is referenced
20:36:02  <TrueBrain> hmmmmmm
20:36:04  <frosch123> when loading from json, all translations get their own basetexts
20:36:13  <TrueBrain> that is a very good point, didn't realise that :)
20:36:19  <TrueBrain> that would indeed explain
20:36:40  <TrueBrain> you smart!
20:36:59  <frosch123> i just was your loopback device
20:37:30  <TrueBrain> I honestly did not consider that case yet :)
20:37:40  <TrueBrain> but it is a logic deduction :) Now lets verify if it is true
20:38:10  <TrueBrain> removes ~30MB
20:38:48  <TrueBrain> still missing ~60MB of RAM
20:39:12  <frosch123> what about the string id? STR_xyz
20:40:44  <TrueBrain> that seems to consume the most memory
20:43:03  <TrueBrain> removed 100MB RAM with some silly code
20:43:20  <frosch123> look up all loaded strings in a set?
20:43:31  <frosch123> "unknown" is also loaded often
20:43:35  <TrueBrain>
20:44:18  <frosch123> i think you can do that for all items in node[]
20:44:20  <TrueBrain> that saves 60MB of RAM .. :)
20:44:45  <TrueBrain> it is really knowing how Python allocates memory, and HEAVILY abusing that :P
20:46:30  <TrueBrain> okay, testing it with strname, case, user and base_text
20:46:38  <frosch123> a lot of script languages do that for all strings by default
20:46:39  <TrueBrain> integers and new_text won't really help, I hope :)
20:46:50  <TrueBrain> down to 250MB RAM that way
20:46:57  <frosch123> :p
20:47:03  <TrueBrain> it is really worth it, tbfh
20:47:16  <TrueBrain> just not sure what the consequences are for base_text
20:47:22  <TrueBrain> as there all language get the same OBJECT
20:47:26  <TrueBrain> which is slightly different
20:47:51  <frosch123> strings are immutable, what should happen?
20:47:58  <TrueBrain> objects are not
20:47:59  <frosch123> i doubt there is any IS vs ==
20:48:04  <TrueBrain> base_text is an object
20:48:16  <TrueBrain> and I do not know if it is immutable :)
20:50:14  <TrueBrain> trouble of not knowing the code very well :)
20:50:26  <TrueBrain> if I only dedup strings, and only strings, I am at 290MB
20:50:30  <TrueBrain> which is already an improvement
20:50:58  <TrueBrain> (from 342)
20:51:12  <TrueBrain> so I need to know how base_text is used :)
20:51:56  <frosch123> it has custom __eq__ and __neq__ for a start
20:52:12  <TrueBrain> the only question is: is the object mutateble :)
20:52:53  <TrueBrain> it appears to be write-once
20:53:01  <TrueBrain> but ... how this code base is setup, it is difficult to trace
20:55:10  <TrueBrain> how languages are loaded, it appears to be shared too
20:55:20  <TrueBrain> so it should be fine? :P
20:57:50  <frosch123> yeah, looks good
20:58:02  <frosch123> looks like Text and Change are never modified after creation
20:58:33  <frosch123> can you declare classes as immutable?
20:58:39  <TrueBrain> you can, sort-of
20:58:43  <TrueBrain> and I was thinking the same :)
20:58:46  <TrueBrain> will try that this weekend
20:58:57  <TrueBrain> as that means we can cache the objects too
20:59:00  <TrueBrain> which saves even more memory
20:59:17  <TrueBrain> well, not new_text, as that is very likely to be unique :P
20:59:43  <frosch123> it's not as likely as you make it sound
21:00:14  <TrueBrain> every new_text should be somewhat unique, not?
21:00:29  <frosch123> in english.txt we have 15 texts for "None"
21:00:57  <TrueBrain> is it worth keeping all these Text in a dict?
21:01:00  <TrueBrain> well, lets find out!
21:01:35  <TrueBrain> we can ofc debate that, or just test it :D
21:01:40  <TrueBrain> 254 without
21:01:59  <TrueBrain> 262 with
21:02:01  <andythenorth> I am observing a 30GB python problem $somewhere else
21:02:05  <andythenorth> synchronicity :P
21:02:10  <TrueBrain> keeping it in a dict consumes slightly more than it saves :(
21:02:10  <andythenorth> must be the moon phase or something
21:02:49  <TrueBrain> let me try it in a different way ..
21:03:23  <TrueBrain> same result
21:03:49  <TrueBrain> so it appears to be unique-enough to not offset deduplication :)
21:04:53  <TrueBrain> but I am now using a stupid dict; possibly there is a better way
21:05:35  <frosch123> the dict is temporary? or do you keep it all the time?
21:06:05  <frosch123> in the latter case i would be worried abuot it accumulating size
21:06:22  <TrueBrain> it is only an issue if the container runs for long long periods of time
21:06:25  <TrueBrain> which is unlikely ;)
21:06:38  <TrueBrain> but yeah, ideally you remove any item with refcount == 1
21:07:09  <TrueBrain> but possibly even better, only on load
21:07:13  <TrueBrain> and throw away the dict after
21:07:23  <frosch123> hmm.. i can't remember whether languages we loaded on demand
21:07:24  <TrueBrain> but .. that is a bit difficult in this code-base
21:07:43  <frosch123> but possibly projects are always loaded as a whole
21:07:48  <TrueBrain> it appears they are
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21:08:09  <frosch123> ah, i think the optimisation was to only write languages to disk that changed
21:08:16  <TrueBrain> but okay, at least this proofs the issue is with how languages are stored on disk :)
21:08:18  <frosch123> instead of writing all languages when one language changed
21:08:42  <TrueBrain> finding a proper fix, is the next step :D
21:10:18  <TrueBrain> and ~250MB RAM is a nice place to be
21:10:23  <TrueBrain> I am totally fine with that
21:10:38  <TrueBrain> means I can provision it with 384 or something
21:10:42  <TrueBrain> enough wiggleroom
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21:11:24  <TrueBrain> so: proof Change and Text are immutable by making them immutable (after initalization)
21:11:39  <TrueBrain> and de-duplicate them in a smart way upon load
21:12:01  <TrueBrain> that means over time it will increase in memory, but containers restart often enough for that to not be a real issue
21:13:49  <TrueBrain> I am looking at the "upload_language" code, specific the function dealing with uploading non-base languages ..
21:13:56  <TrueBrain> I simply do not understand it sufficiently to get what it does
21:15:41  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what if you use system.intern() instead of the custom dict?
21:15:42  <TrueBrain> it overwrites the latest change (if override is set), instead of adding one, if it is different?
21:16:11  <TrueBrain> system.intern?
21:16:18  <frosch123> sys.intern()
21:16:23  <frosch123>
21:16:50  <TrueBrain> I cannot free that
21:16:59  <TrueBrain> so that would mean memory slowly increases
21:17:11  <frosch123> it does that itself (it claims)
21:17:52  <TrueBrain> 1MB difference (with a gain for sys.intern)
21:18:25  <TrueBrain> owh, they are destroyed when refcount hits zero
21:18:31  <TrueBrain> sweet, yeah, that is the better one to use
21:18:34  <TrueBrain> but it only works for strings
21:19:31  <TrueBrain> owh, I was already deduplicating new_text.text btw, in my earlier tests, to be clear :)
21:21:36  <frosch123> TrueBrain: hmm, yes, looks like "override" violates the immutable
21:22:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain opened pull request #14: Add: use sys.intern() on strings for classes using __slots__
21:22:49  <TrueBrain> at least this is now safe to do ^^ :)
21:22:56  <frosch123> oh, "override" only updates the stamp and the user
21:23:10  <TrueBrain> yeah, it really confuses me tbh
21:23:15  <frosch123> well, and updates the "last_upload"
21:23:47  <TrueBrain> override is always off in our use-case btw
21:23:57  <TrueBrain> at least, lang_sync sets it to nothing
21:24:13  <frosch123> TrueBrain: why not sys.intern the base_text ?
21:24:13  <TrueBrain> a user possibly could upload a language file, but I assume that is blocked by roles
21:24:39  <TrueBrain> it is a Text() object
21:24:39  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i thought the --force option sets it
21:25:03  <TrueBrain>
21:25:05  <frosch123> TrueBrain: ah, again :p
21:25:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 approved pull request #14: Add: use sys.intern() on strings for classes using __slots__
21:25:56  <TrueBrain> --force only exists in your, which ignores the outcome of pull if there was anything new to do
21:26:13  <frosch123> ok, so more weird stuff :)
21:26:37  <frosch123> also, yes, uploads are disabled for everyone but "translators"
21:26:41  <TrueBrain> anyway, Change is not immutable; last_upload is indeed changed
21:27:15  <TrueBrain> I think the best way for base_text is to just get it from the base_language, in the same way the upload function does
21:27:23  <TrueBrain> there should be a match, in theory
21:27:29  <frosch123> ok, does sharing of Text() still save anything after the members are internalised?
21:27:31  <TrueBrain> I am just not sure that is true in reality :D
21:27:42  <TrueBrain> for base_text, another 40MB or so
21:27:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain merged pull request #14: Add: use sys.intern() on strings for classes using __slots__
21:27:53  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i think it is not true
21:28:12  <frosch123> i think it defines "outdated" strings
21:28:40  <frosch123> "translations that were not validated after gthe base language changed"
21:28:56  <TrueBrain> hmm, so that complicates it a bit :)
21:29:14  <frosch123> oh, and btw. that's the important information that is lost when clearing the efs
21:29:26  <frosch123> new eints will report all strings as up-to-date
21:29:33  <TrueBrain> ah!
21:29:38  <TrueBrain> it doesn't know the base language changed
21:29:39  <TrueBrain> makes sense
21:30:10  <frosch123> "confirm translation" is a eints-internal action
21:30:11  <TrueBrain> and there are more than a few outdated
21:30:20  <frosch123> that action does not affect the git repo
21:31:06  <frosch123> yeah, sorry. i knew that something got lost when deleting eints project. but i forgot what it was :)
21:31:06  <TrueBrain> how much of a problem is it, that we lose outdated?
21:31:38  <frosch123> last time it happend was when we moved from wt3 to eints
21:31:58  <frosch123> so, "every few years" is probably fine
21:32:24  <TrueBrain> otherwise what I can think off, is to replay every commit that changes the language
21:32:27  <TrueBrain> and import from "zero"
21:32:36  <frosch123> that's a waste :p
21:32:52  <frosch123> i can't even imagine how long that would take
21:32:52  <TrueBrain> scripting-wise, not difficult to do
21:32:55  <frosch123> a month?
21:33:17  <TrueBrain> only 4049 commits
21:33:25  <frosch123> TrueBrain: anyway, it does not help at all
21:33:33  <TrueBrain> takes ~30 seconds per commit .. so 2000 minutes
21:33:35  <TrueBrain> @calc 2000 / 60
21:33:36  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 33.3333333333
21:33:36  <frosch123> it would just mark all translations as outdated
21:33:39  <TrueBrain> over a day :P
21:33:47  <TrueBrain> ah, yes, ofc
21:33:48  <TrueBrain> okay
21:34:07  <TrueBrain> the other thing I can think off, is to start a special prepared container with a copy of the current JSON
21:34:11  <TrueBrain> which puts them on the EFS
21:34:15  <TrueBrain> as a "one-off"
21:34:35  <TrueBrain> but I would like to change all usernames to "translators", to remove any chance people confuse OpenTTD users with GitHub users :P
21:34:44  <frosch123> considering that outdated strings only affect unmaintained languages. it is better to not show any outdated strings to new translators, than with many strings that do not need touching
21:34:47  <TrueBrain> but, honestly, is it worth it?
21:35:06  <frosch123> no :)
21:35:11  <TrueBrain> German has 7 outdated strings! :P
21:36:06  <TrueBrain> it will just be what it is
21:36:27  <TrueBrain> owh, I see we can intern() a few more places, where Change is mutated; but that most likely won't really make a difference
21:36:29  <TrueBrain> this was the biggest blob
21:37:30  <frosch123> lol, STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_CRASHES_NONE gained an asterisk
21:37:41  <TrueBrain> OMG! :P
21:37:46  <frosch123> i guess i missed/forgot some drama
21:37:57  <TrueBrain> git log git log git log! :P
21:38:25  <frosch123> so, ottd has fine-print now :)
21:38:41  <andythenorth> pls, don't remind me
21:38:46  <TrueBrain> ok
21:38:59  * andythenorth happy place today
21:39:06  <andythenorth> apart from the 30GB python thing
21:39:18  <TrueBrain> give me the Python thing! I now know how to trace memory issues! :P
21:39:23  <TrueBrain> add _ _ slots _ _ everywhere! :P
21:39:24  <TrueBrain> :D
21:39:32  <andythenorth> we'd have to get you background checked
21:39:38  <andythenorth> dunno how that would go :P
21:40:06  <andythenorth> I did a talk to 50 people and finished a job description, so not a bad day
21:40:06  <TrueBrain> too bad you are in the wrong country; I already have sufficient of those in mine :P
21:40:10  <TrueBrain> pretty sure it counts for something :D
21:40:15  <frosch123> can you check the "dutch" box at the top?
21:40:26  <andythenorth> if it's EU, that's now negative points for our political culture I think
21:40:32  <andythenorth> probably automatic traitor or something
21:40:40  <TrueBrain> sounds right
21:40:41  <andythenorth> we're even walling off Kent because it's a bit close to France
21:40:51  <andythenorth> New Freedoms!
21:40:58  <andythenorth> but more paperwork, more borders
21:41:06  <andythenorth> such lol
21:41:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain created new tag: openttd-github-1.0.1
21:41:21  <michi_cc> But you have the control now!
21:41:35  <frosch123> andythenorth: oh, i was worried. i first read you had 50 job interviews in one day
21:41:50  <andythenorth> I read 10 CVs today, but not 50 job interviews :D
21:42:20  <TrueBrain> let's see what that mini-patch makes for a difference in production :D
21:42:37  <frosch123> andythenorth: what's the ratio of cv with photo vs cv without photo?
21:42:51  <andythenorth> we would remove them anyway
21:42:55  <andythenorth> so I have NFI :)
21:43:04  <TrueBrain> do you email CVs to other people? :D
21:43:08  <frosch123> ah, UK is that kind of country :)
21:43:11  <andythenorth> we try to remove bias-inducing information
21:43:15  <TrueBrain> do you have a policy on how to remove those CVs from their mailboxes?
21:43:23  <andythenorth> oddly yes
21:43:26  <andythenorth> it's GDPR stuff
21:43:28  <TrueBrain> it is not odd :)
21:43:31  <TrueBrain> it is mandatory :P
21:43:52  <andythenorth> we have a retention period for job applicant data
21:43:53  <TrueBrain> simple solution btw .. don't email CVs to other people
21:43:55  <TrueBrain> just print it :P
21:44:01  <TrueBrain> as you should :)
21:44:06  <TrueBrain> I am shocked how many companies still don't
21:44:22  <frosch123> TrueBrain: you can buy specialized software to manage CVs and their deletion
21:44:34  <TrueBrain> I am not surprised :)
21:44:39  <frosch123> i don't know how easily they leak though
21:44:51  <andythenorth> I am surprised that 'photo' would ever be useful in hiring
21:44:59  <andythenorth> unless it's for actors
21:45:04  <andythenorth> or impersonators
21:45:10  <TrueBrain> I once had someone that wrote League of Legends on his CV as Hobbies
21:45:11  <andythenorth> or ninjas
21:45:19  <TrueBrain> no clue how it was relevant, but I of course did ask about it
21:45:21  <TrueBrain> :P
21:45:36  <andythenorth> would a ninja photo be blank?
21:45:50  <TrueBrain> still one of the strangest things I saw on a CV .. and we hired the dude, so it does work :P
21:45:57  <TrueBrain> one of the best people we hired, tbh ..
21:46:02  <TrueBrain> not sure there is a correlation :D
21:46:05  <andythenorth> I don't mind weird CVs
21:46:19  <frosch123> andythenorth: here there are 3 types of cv: extroverts who have their face on the frontpage, covering half the page. introverts to put a tiny picture into some corner. and confident people who do not add a photo
21:46:36  <TrueBrain> I cannot believe people consider adding a photo ..
21:46:38  <andythenorth> photos are such a non-criteria
21:46:56  <TrueBrain> but our recruitment removed photos before it got to me, so I have no clue how many did send it ..
21:46:56  <andythenorth> I get triggered because people are putting their age and gender
21:47:23  <TrueBrain> Place of birth is a fun one to add
21:47:27  <TrueBrain> like ... who fucking gives a shit?
21:47:33  <TrueBrain> Country of birth, sure
21:47:34  <LordAro> we were supposed to put photos on our CVs for university year-in-industry placements
21:47:34  <TrueBrain> but place?
21:47:37  <LordAro> i refused
21:47:52  <andythenorth> was that for ID, or to enable affinity bias, structuralism racism etc?
21:48:11  <TrueBrain> in student housing we liked photos
21:48:15  <TrueBrain> it made screening go quicker :P
21:48:22  <TrueBrain> I AM NOT SAYING IT WAS FAIR
21:48:33  <andythenorth> oof, the wrong things I have done :)
21:48:37  <andythenorth> that I no longer do
21:48:44  <frosch123> andythenorth: how about marital status?
21:48:50  <TrueBrain> at-door-screening .. we were not allowed by the female housemates ..
21:49:02  <andythenorth> frosch123 another zero-fucks issue :)
21:49:30  <TrueBrain> frosch123: from 65% to 56% memory usage
21:49:34  <TrueBrain> from one simple patch
21:49:36  <TrueBrain> that is nice :D
21:50:18  <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, a lot of old german templates contain all that weird stuff. so you will find that stuff on first-hires
21:53:01  <frosch123> TrueBrain: putting leisure activites onto your cv is recommended for initial smalltalk or something
21:53:39  <andythenorth> hiring is so weird
21:54:02  <frosch123> i also put foss on my cv. and someone once asked why ottd is so much C without objects :p
21:54:24  <frosch123> (i did not put "ottd" on the cv, they googled that themself)
21:54:29  <andythenorth> stalking!
21:55:40  <TrueBrain> Strictly seen not allowed to google people before an interview
21:56:09  <TrueBrain> Funny how many rules there are, and how many are broken :p
21:57:05  * LordAro has OTTD on his
21:57:31  <LordAro> think i mighr also have FRCT on it as well... i've not looked at it in about 4 years
21:57:51  <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, i also always got the name of the interviewer in advance
21:58:03  <frosch123> so, stalking was fair :)
21:58:40  <frosch123> oh, right... i found one interviewer on youtube, where they ranted about some political drama in their village
21:58:47  <frosch123> that was funny :p
21:59:01  <frosch123> esp. because it was the only video on their channel
21:59:19  <TrueBrain> Haha
21:59:35  <TrueBrain> I have to dust off my CV soon .. no clue what is on it tbh
21:59:42  <TrueBrain> Has been years :D
22:00:07  <frosch123> "soon" sounds like "no hurry" :p
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22:01:59  <TrueBrain> Correct
22:02:11  <TrueBrain> Saved enough money :)
22:02:34  <TrueBrain> How else am I going to finish this massive AWS migration? :D
22:03:51  <frosch123> when i quit my last job, i avoided telling people that i did not yet apply for a new one. not everyone can handle that kind of insecurity
22:04:11  <TrueBrain> So I noticed :D
22:04:32  <frosch123> but waiting for the right job was definitely worth it :)
22:04:36  <TrueBrain> Or rather, I can confirm people cant always handle that :p
22:05:00  <frosch123> you learned it the hard way? :p
22:05:17  <frosch123> did they offer you food?
22:05:38  <andythenorth> I haven't had a job for years
22:05:45  <andythenorth> jobs are so weird
22:08:06  <andythenorth> I had a few years ago
22:09:04  <frosch123> you should mow the lawn more often
22:10:22  <TrueBrain> I really should .. :D
22:10:25  <TrueBrain> Night all
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