Log for #openttd on 4th October 2020:
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01:30:14  <Afdal> I guess v1.9.0 was when the reset_engines command stopped functioning to re-roll reliabilities too
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06:15:25  <andythenorth> yo
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08:02:28  <TrueBrain> so ... lets move some Python code into its own library ... I guess I make 1 library with all kinds of common bits and pieces or something .. or many libraries for every unique piece .. hmm
08:07:01  <TrueBrain> guess small packages is better :)
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08:36:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] FuryPapaya opened issue #35: [sk_SK] Translator access request
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08:47:44  <TrueBrain> maybe I should just call it "openttd-helpers", as it is a collection of all kind of different things :P
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09:16:22  <andythenorth> I called mine Polar Fox :P
09:16:24  <andythenorth> oof
09:16:32  <andythenorth> a 15 year old joke
09:16:42  <andythenorth> that is only in my head
09:52:30  <andythenorth> hmm
09:52:40  <andythenorth> 'fair use' of song lyrics in the docs for a GPL project? o_O
09:52:48  * andythenorth armchair laywering
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10:11:20  <andythenorth> internet says 'nope'
10:11:27  <andythenorth> no quoting lyrics
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10:21:12  <TrueBrain> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: click_helpers, logging_helpers and sentry_helpers
10:21:31  <TrueBrain> hmm, actions don't kick in
10:21:36  <TrueBrain> okay, multiple PRs it is ..
10:24:42  <TrueBrain> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain opened pull request #2: Add: [DorpsGek] announce issues, pull-requests, and tags to IRC
10:24:47  <TrueBrain> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain opened pull request #3: Add: [Actions] CodeQL, flake8, black, and regression tests
10:25:59  <TrueBrain> it has 100% coverage :D
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12:20:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain merged pull request #2: Add: [DorpsGek] announce issues, pull-requests, and tags to IRC
12:22:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] glx22 approved pull request #3: Add: [Actions] CodeQL, flake8, black, and regression tests
12:22:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain merged pull request #3: Add: [Actions] CodeQL, flake8, black, and regression tests
12:32:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: click_helpers, logging_helpers and sentry_helpers
12:33:52  <glx> lucky regression check was enabled :)
12:35:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: click_helpers, logging_helpers and sentry_helpers
12:35:22  <TrueBrain> it is the reason to have a regression suite :)
12:35:37  <TrueBrain> guess I will be bumping the few 3.7 repositories we have to 3.8!
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12:47:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] glx22 approved pull request #1: Add: click_helpers, logging_helpers and sentry_helpers
12:47:47  <TrueBrain> "seems okay", lol :D
12:48:21  <glx> well the code is used in all other repos, and it works there
12:48:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain merged pull request #1: Add: click_helpers, logging_helpers and sentry_helpers
12:48:29  <TrueBrain> yup :)
12:48:30  <TrueBrain> tnx glx!
12:48:38  <TrueBrain> now I need to figure out how to publish this :P
12:48:43  <TrueBrain> and then convert all repos ..
12:48:44  <TrueBrain> not today!
12:49:17  <glx> check nml actions, I think there's what you need there
12:49:32  <TrueBrain> yeah, I will copy from there
12:53:46  <glx> and is still down
12:54:00  <TrueBrain> I am still really surprised it is a single machine
12:54:02  <TrueBrain> like .. wuth?
12:54:25  <glx> they don't have a TrueBrain in the team
12:54:39  <TrueBrain> it is not like msys is small ..
12:55:25  <TrueBrain>
12:55:30  <TrueBrain> just in case you need a giggle
12:56:07  <glx> yeah I saw it, it's linked in the issue
12:56:18  <glx> failed reboot
12:58:21  <TrueBrain> and just keep on reading ...
12:58:26  <TrueBrain> mirrors that are out-of-date
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13:00:15  <TrueBrain> well, one of those problems with Open Source .. people depend more and more on a small group of people, assuming they have infinite time and money to have everything with 100% availability and 100% integrity .. :D
13:00:26  <TrueBrain> the reason I am rather happy GitHub has their own Container Registry now ..
13:00:40  <TrueBrain> I think that has a higher chance of surviving than Docker Hub has :)
13:08:27  <andythenorth> XKCD has you covered
13:10:32  <glx> msys2 itself is usable, I'm upating my install and it works (except timeout on the down server before trying another one, for each file)
13:10:50  <glx> the main issue is vcpkg hardcoding the server
13:11:24  <TrueBrain> well, no, the main issue is that they were using their "main repo" on a single machine :)
13:11:41  <TrueBrain> even OpenTTD didn't do that .. the main repo was not available for the general public :P
13:12:08  <TrueBrain> but it seems the mirrors are not all up-to-date
13:12:18  <TrueBrain> so people get older versions and stuff
13:12:25  <TrueBrain> something wonky anyway
13:12:37  <TrueBrain> well, I hope they take this opportunity to make their infra better :)
13:12:49  <glx> most mirrors seems to be ok, except sourceforge
13:13:54  <TrueBrain> WASH YOUR MOUTH!
13:13:58  <TrueBrain> naming SF in this channel
13:13:58  <TrueBrain> :P
13:17:56  <andythenorth> isn't it malwareforge?
13:18:00  <andythenorth> or is that just a rumour?
13:18:11  <TrueBrain> well, they did insert stuff in installers
13:18:15  <TrueBrain> that is not a rumour, but a fact
13:18:20  <TrueBrain> think they regretted those actions
13:18:26  <glx> too late
13:18:36  <TrueBrain> they are still here ..
13:19:12  <andythenorth> I think it was the banner adds for malware and scamware on every page that I remember
13:19:14  <glx> of course not all projects moved
13:19:23  <andythenorth> big green arrows with 'download now' faking the project download
13:20:18  <TrueBrain> ah, that bullshit .. wouldn't be surprised if they still do that
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13:20:30  <TrueBrain> and an english person that says adds instead of ads .. not sure what to think about that :P
13:25:51  <glx> funny how people can't look at other issues before opening theirs, the vcpkg issue list is full of almost duplicates related to msys2 failure
13:26:17  <TrueBrain> yup ... but on the other hand, they could have pinned a single issue with a more clear title :)
13:27:26  <glx> <-- one of the best :)
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13:41:22  <TrueBrain> ghehe
14:11:11  <LordAro> "Hi, welcome to Three. You're chatting with Steven from the Complaints team team. I will help you."
14:11:14  <LordAro> a good start.
14:11:56  <glx> hmm a team team, that's scary
14:12:10  <LordAro> not as scary as 0.5Mbps download
14:12:30  <glx> I had 3 weeks without internet
14:13:29  <glx> and it was a 5 minutes fix in phone central
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14:31:03  <milek7_> sourceforge seems stuck in 00's
14:31:18  <milek7_> with that 'you download will start in 5 seconds...'
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14:51:28  <milek7_>
14:57:31  <LordAro> milek7_: impressively detailed article
15:01:18  <andythenorth> good read
15:02:09  <andythenorth> "Then again, Transport Tycoon needs every ounce of good will it can generate — because, taken purely as a piece of zero-sum game design, it’s horribly, hopelessly broken. "
15:02:10  <andythenorth> :D
15:02:20  <LordAro> i enjoyed that
15:02:34  <LordAro> take that OTTD detractors, it's always been broken!
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15:18:54  <FLHerne> "This effectively infinite bankroll makes cost-benefit analysis meaningless, causing what ought to be interesting dilemmas — the meat of a good strategy game — to become moot." <- yup
15:19:30  <glx> and that is still unchanged, unless with some newgrf combos
15:20:04  <LordAro> most newgrfs make it *more* broken :p
15:20:39  <FLHerne> You can't really fix it with grfs
15:21:21  <andythenorth> you can't fix it
15:21:30  <FLHerne> The game design means you either make a ton of money or go bankrupt in short order, the trickier grfs just make the second one easier
15:21:37  <andythenorth> the core of playability is pretty much the pipemania puzzle
15:21:43  <andythenorth> fitting stuff into the remaining tiles
15:21:49  <FLHerne> Sustained barely-enough-money isn't a thing
15:22:00  <FLHerne> Might be possible with GS
15:23:38  <andythenorth> it's not even interesting :)
15:23:50  <andythenorth> the constrained resource becomes 'spare tiles with room for stations'
15:24:14  <andythenorth> it's interesting we don't have a second resource
15:24:19  <andythenorth> most games have gems and coins
15:24:21  <glx> room and being accepted by town
15:24:21  <andythenorth> or gold and manna
15:24:37  <andythenorth> wood and gold
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15:24:40  <andythenorth> food and ore
15:24:52  <andythenorth> we just have 'spare tiles'
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15:44:07  <Afdal> So... What should I do to try and fix the max. reliability system that's been busted up since v1.9.0?  Submit an issue on github?  Attempt to write my own fix for it?
15:44:27  <Afdal> I've very serious when I say this approaches game-ruining for me
15:44:40  <milek7_> why busted?
15:44:48  <Afdal> I can't believe it's been sitting around for so long without other people apparently complaining about it
15:44:57  <nielsm> start with an issue to document it
15:45:12  <Afdal> because it results in regular scenarios where the last several decades of vehicles don't have reliability about the low '80s%
15:45:19  <Afdal> above*
15:46:24  <LordAro> are you certain it was broken in 1.9.0?
15:46:33  <Afdal> I've got a singleplayer save I've been working on right now that I've essentially had to give up on because there's simply no way to.  Can't even load the save in an old version of OpenTTD and fix it up with reset_engines.
15:46:34  <LordAro> or are you just going off that random changelog entry?
15:46:48  <Afdal> Yeah I've tested out v1.8.0 and v1.9.0
15:46:57  <Afdal> that's definitely when the change occurred
15:47:19  <LordAro> ok
15:47:25  <LordAro> first step is an issue on GH
15:47:25  <Afdal> I think it might have been an unintented consequence from when the random vehicle introduction year thing got synchronized
15:47:43  <Afdal> I wish I still remembered my old github password ~_~
15:47:58  <LordAro> there are ways of resetting these things...
15:48:09  <Afdal> and the email associated with it <.<
15:48:22  <Afdal> Guess I'll just have to make a new one
15:51:02  <Afdal> Would it make more sense to just comment on the old pull request
15:51:09  <LordAro> no, an issue please
15:51:15  <Afdal> that I'm fairly certain is associated with it
15:51:17  <Afdal> okay
15:51:27  <LordAro> comments on closed pull requests will almost certainly get ignored
15:51:41  <Afdal> <.<
15:52:53  <LordAro> remember to include steps for reproducing the behaviour that you're seeing
15:53:42  <LordAro> there are 628 changes between 1.8.0 and 1.9.0 :)
15:54:20  <LordAro> well, 501 non-translation changes
15:54:59  <Afdal> I'm still having trouble understanding exactly how this thing works
15:55:08  <Afdal> from my various tests
15:55:50  <Afdal> because sometimes I'll load up a game at 2200 and there will be tons of 99% max. reliability vehicles
15:56:15  <Afdal> it's almost as if you get a bad max. reliability "seed" and then it propagates across all the vehicles with short year increments between their introduction dates
15:57:59  <LordAro> the sooner we get a list of steps, the sooner we can nail down exactly what's causing it
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16:00:02  <Afdal> But whatever the case, if you play with breakdowns on and you get one of these bad seeds, your game is pretty much ruined if you had any plans of using late-game vehicles
16:01:27  <Afdal> with the old system you could at least count on some late vehicles having randomly high reliability.  With the new system huge swaths of vehicles can be rendered with reliabilities in the low 80% range
16:01:47  <Afdal> which is pretty bad for dense networking
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16:12:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] federico1564S opened issue #36: [it_IT] Translator access request
16:22:44  <andythenorth> it's plausible (without looking at code) that synchronised intro dates means synchronised reliability
16:22:55  * andythenorth would be surprised though
16:23:13  <andythenorth> the lolz of unintended consequences :P
16:23:14  <Timberwolf> From what I can see, if they have the same intro date and type, and come from the same GRF, they'll get the same reliability.
16:23:19  <LordAro> basically, until we get a reproducible report, this is all hearsay
16:23:30  <andythenorth> +1
16:23:43  <andythenorth> Horse 2.8.0 time
16:23:43  <LordAro> and i'm not going to spend time speculating further
16:24:35  <Timberwolf> But it's not possible to reproduce it across multiple vehicles unless you can get at least the game generation seed, and the GRF you're using (or at least the grf-defined introduction date for the affected vehicles, and the ID of the grf they come from)
16:30:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #36: [it_IT] Translator access request
16:30:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #35: [sk_SK] Translator access request
16:54:23  <andythenorth> and we're done
16:54:26  <andythenorth> have a day off andythenorth
16:54:38  <andythenorth> Horse to-do list never gets shorter though :D
17:02:48  <TrueBrain> hmm .. someone tried to upload "rfirs", and failed on BaNaNaS .. lets see why :)
17:03:25  <TrueBrain> hmm, the .tar was never extracted .. that is odd
17:05:26  <TrueBrain> owh, someone tried to upload a tarball in a tarball
17:05:32  <TrueBrain> haha, I did not consider that user-flow ..
17:06:34  <andythenorth> it's the FIRS makefile again
17:06:44  <andythenorth> this isn't me though, this is a new FIRS fork I think
17:06:57  <TrueBrain> it is not you, no :)
17:07:02  <andythenorth> NFI why these makefiles do this :)
17:07:03  <TrueBrain> I see you managed to upload a new version just fine :P
17:07:05  <andythenorth> well I do
17:07:10  <andythenorth> but not the rationale
17:07:21  <TrueBrain> but okay, the API should not return a 500 in these cases
17:12:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain opened pull request #74: Fix: API returned 500 if you uploaded a tarball in a tarball
17:13:29  <TrueBrain> we have some silly users :P
17:14:06  <TrueBrain> at least the response time on bugs is quick :P
17:30:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] LordAro approved pull request #74: Fix: API returned 500 if you uploaded a tarball in a tarball
17:32:09  * andythenorth awaits applause for shipping newgrf
17:34:35  <supermop_Home> "please clap"
17:36:51  <frosch123> should we announce bananas uploads in chat?
17:37:00  <TrueBrain> it is for me :P
17:37:06  <TrueBrain> it is not incredible spammy
17:39:18  <frosch123> i gusss andy got more feedback for train whack than for horse?
17:40:54  <andythenorth> I think the quality is more important than the volume :D
17:41:21  <andythenorth> one day, I'll finish FIRS 4
17:41:23  <andythenorth> hmm
17:41:37  <andythenorth> 'lol'
17:42:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #74: Fix: API returned 500 if you uploaded a tarball in a tarball
17:43:06  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: rfirs had exactly the same issue you had, yes :)
17:43:21  <TrueBrain> he uploaded it file by file to solve it .. after he tried to tarball the tarball :)
17:50:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.5
17:52:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:52:02  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
17:54:49  <andythenorth> I will fix all my makefiles at some point
17:54:54  <andythenorth> hopefully the forks pull
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17:57:01  <TrueBrain> at least it no longer errors out if users are silly :P
18:11:08  <TrueBrain> lovely .. a sentry report about eints, where every variable is [Filtered] :D
18:11:08  <TrueBrain> lol
18:11:23  <TrueBrain> frosch123: oauth shows an issue again; might taking a look see if you can find it?
18:12:28  <TrueBrain> "'UserAuthentication' object has no attribute 'callback'"
18:12:41  <frosch123> yes, we already had that
18:12:58  <frosch123> it happens when you get to the oauth callback without a session cookie
18:13:14  <frosch123> so possibly when hitting "back" in the browser after logou
18:13:21  <frosch123> or maybe with some privacy mode
18:13:27  <TrueBrain> well, we might had that, but we haven't fixed it :P
18:13:29  <frosch123> should we silence the problem?
18:13:47  <TrueBrain> in general I prefer servers that don't cause backtraces, yes :D
18:13:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] AlphaJack opened issue #37: [it_IT] Translator access request
18:14:06  <TrueBrain> would be nice to just throw an error to the user instead of a 500 :)
18:16:14  <frosch123> hmm, eints became complicated to run
18:16:39  <TrueBrain> "make run" ? :)
18:18:55  <frosch123> that does not help, i can now longer maintain a simple config.xml
18:19:21  <frosch123> now i have to use an >200 char command line or so
18:22:25  <TrueBrain> disable line 97 till 127 in, and off you go
18:28:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 opened pull request #23: Fix: Users without valid session cookie only have an instance of user…
18:29:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain opened pull request #24: Add: allow "python -m webtranslate.main" to use a static config.xml
18:29:39  <frosch123> alternatives are: duck typing (check whether instance has member 'callback'), or adding a 'callback' to the base class (which is also used by ldap, redmine, development,...)
18:29:41  <TrueBrain> and for the grumpy old man: ^^ :D
18:31:33  <TrueBrain> pages/, line 82, possibly also add there: "or not req_redirect", or is that silly?
18:32:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain commented on pull request #23: Fix: Users without valid session cookie only have an instance of user…
18:32:23  <frosch123> TrueBrain: that would be wrong
18:32:37  <frosch123> req_redirect=None just goes to the frontpage
18:32:46  <TrueBrain> ah! That was not clear to me :)
18:32:57  <frosch123> no, it goes to the profile page
18:33:19  <frosch123> anyway, it is fine to login without going to a specific page where you were before
18:34:14  <TrueBrain> it is a bit weird that the userauth can not be GithubUserAuthentication, but I am fine with your solution
18:34:24  <TrueBrain> so slab a comment on there, and off we go :)
18:34:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 commented on pull request #24: Add: allow "python -m webtranslate.main" to use a static config.xml
18:34:31  <TrueBrain> same user hit it 4 times, the 500 page btw
18:36:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 updated pull request #23: Fix: Users without valid session cookie only have an instance of user…
18:38:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain updated pull request #24: Add: allow "python -m webtranslate.main" to use a static config.xml
18:38:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain approved pull request #23: Fix: Users without valid session cookie only have an instance of user…
18:39:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain commented on pull request #24: Add: allow "python -m webtranslate.main" to use a static config.xml
18:39:33  <frosch123> sometimes dirt on the screen looks like a ' and makes me think: how did that compile..
18:40:00  <TrueBrain> :D I know that feeling a bit too well ... :P
18:40:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain updated pull request #24: Add: allow "python -m webtranslate.main" to use a static config.xml
18:41:02  <frosch123> oh... there is __main and main :p
18:41:16  <TrueBrain> eints is the collection of blobs on blobs on blobs :)
18:42:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 approved pull request #24: Add: allow "python -m webtranslate.main" to use a static config.xml
18:42:44  <frosch123> hmm.. i forgot how long this wiki-migration script runs :)
18:42:57  <TrueBrain> how is it going with the ruby skills?
18:43:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain merged pull request #24: Add: allow "python -m webtranslate.main" to use a static config.xml
18:43:31  <frosch123> oh, i rather not tell what hacks i put into the dockerfile
18:43:55  <frosch123> but i tuned my migration script to output more gollumish content and add lfs to it
18:44:03  <frosch123> just i forgot that it takes 2 hours to run
18:45:35  <TrueBrain> :D
18:46:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain merged pull request #23: Fix: Users without valid session cookie only have an instance of user…
18:46:56  <frosch123> oh dear, sometimes i wish i did not know german... then i would not have to deal with what some translators write
18:47:17  <TrueBrain> haha :D
18:48:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #37: [it_IT] Translator access request
18:51:28  <frosch123> italians took the pole position: 4 translators
18:53:30  <TrueBrain> frosch123: your PR broke GitHub login :(
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18:53:41  <TrueBrain>
18:54:51  <frosch123> hmm, right, i only checked the negative case
18:55:05  <TrueBrain> isinstance instead of is?
18:55:11  <frosch123> probably
18:55:24  <frosch123> long ago since i checked a class in python :)
18:55:39  <TrueBrain> I assumed userauth was the class .. but if it is the instance:
18:55:46  <TrueBrain> isinstance(userauth, GitHubblabla)
18:55:47  <TrueBrain> :)
18:56:06  <TrueBrain> I should have realised it during review :P
18:56:25  <TrueBrain> but, this is what we have staging for :D
18:56:27  <frosch123> i do not longer have my test github app :)
18:56:45  <frosch123> but i guess i can fake it
18:56:57  <TrueBrain> funny, neither do I :P
19:01:13  <frosch123> hmm, it's not that easy to fake
19:01:46  <TrueBrain> make a new app, like 5 clicks? :D
19:04:29  <frosch123> that's way more clicks, i also would have to fake localhost and more again
19:04:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 opened pull request #25: Fix: properly test for being instance
19:04:54  <TrueBrain> I never faked localhost to test it ..
19:05:00  <TrueBrain> I just redirected it to http back :P
19:05:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain approved pull request #25: Fix: properly test for being instance
19:05:32  <frosch123> i needed a replace("http","https") somewhere
19:05:39  <TrueBrain> (on GitHub, redirecturl can be http ONLY for localhost :))
19:06:20  <frosch123> oh, gh accepts localhost? either that is new, or i just assumed that it would not work...
19:06:35  <frosch123> but i mean the requests_oauth, which denies http
19:06:36  <TrueBrain> it is "new", 2017 I believe :P
19:07:07  <TrueBrain> owh, yes, you need to set an ENV variable for requests_oauth :)
19:07:28  <frosch123> haha, i just faked the caller url in the source :p
19:07:47  <TrueBrain> OAUTHLIB_INSECURE_TRANSPORT=1 :)
19:07:49  <frosch123> you want https? i pretend it was :)
19:08:00  <TrueBrain> I found that because of stackoverflow
19:08:05  <TrueBrain> not because ... it was clearly documented :P
19:10:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain merged pull request #25: Fix: properly test for being instance
19:15:28  <frosch123> works \o/
19:15:35  <frosch123> also when pressing "back"
19:16:51  <TrueBrain> nice :D
19:17:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain created new tag: openttd-github-1.0.7
19:17:13  <TrueBrain> to production it is!
19:17:25  <TrueBrain> 2 sentry errors on 1 day .. fixed within an evening \o/
19:17:37  <andythenorth> lovin it lovin it lovin it
19:18:22  <frosch123> on devzone i had custom crafted code to file issues in redmine on exceptions :)
19:18:46  <frosch123> <- then i had to disable redmine notifications :p
19:22:11  <TrueBrain> haha :)
19:22:17  <TrueBrain> sentry allows you to do that manually :)
19:22:27  <TrueBrain> and their deduplication is awesome
19:23:16  <TrueBrain> I really cannot understand projects not using Sentry :D
19:23:36  <TrueBrain> like for this bug, I marked it as: resolved in next release
19:23:52  <TrueBrain> it will not send me any alert for that bug until it has seen a new version
19:23:54  <TrueBrain> which is rather nice :)
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19:24:20  <TrueBrain> (and this is why the slightly complicated version-bla is in the Python repositories :D)
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22:07:24  <Afdal> I think the word that best describes the current max. reliability system is "temporal autocorrelation".  Depending on the random seed, this can either be really nice--every vehicle in a 50-year introduction span might be 95-100% max. reliable.  Or it can be really, really bad: every of vehicle in a 50-year span might have reliability in a 75-80% range.  There is no middle ground with this new algorithm.
22:08:36  <Afdal> Whereas, with the old system you can be reasonably assured that random luck will throw at least a few vehicles with nice max. reliability over a timeframe that large.
22:09:18  <Afdal> but since reset_vehicles doesn't do anything anymore, the only way to fix this when it's bad is to reset the entire game and roll a new map
22:18:07  <LordAro> IRC. Is. Not. An. Issue. Tracker.
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22:20:08  <Afdal> I'm just organizing my thoughts D:>
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22:55:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Afdill opened issue #8325: Strong temporal autocorrelation in Max. Reliability ratings across vehicles
22:55:28  <Afdal> o:
23:02:59  <Timberwolf> Do you have an example game seed that does it for the base game vehicles? (and which ones are affected)
23:07:10  <Afdal> How do you grab the game seed again
23:07:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8325: Strong temporal autocorrelation in Max. Reliability ratings across vehicles
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23:11:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Afdill commented on issue #8325: Strong temporal autocorrelation in Max. Reliability ratings across vehicles
23:12:12  <Afdal> Ah, getseed
23:12:26  <Afdal> Here's a seed to try: 2878084001
23:12:36  <Afdal> it's pretty obvious with the train engines in that game
23:12:50  <Afdal> and the road vehicles
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23:19:51  <Afdal> How the heck do you load a new map with a given game seed these days anyway.  Since the seed option is gone from the map generator
23:20:03  <Afdal> set generation_seed doesn't seem to work
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23:23:12  <Afdal> Oh, aha.  It's 'newgame [ur game seed]'
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