Log for #openttd on 13th October 2020:
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07:53:04  <TrueBrain> awh, frosch123 did not include his export script :P
07:56:32  <TrueBrain> holy crap, gollum consumes 1GB of RAM
07:56:32  <TrueBrain> lol
07:59:06  <TrueBrain> seems the caching is a bit overly eager :)
09:01:41  <TrueBrain> holy crap, gollum is slow
09:03:23  <LordAro> i feel like you've been saying that from the start
09:03:31  <TrueBrain> I did?
09:03:38  <TrueBrain> pretty sure I haven't judge gollum on speed
09:03:44  <TrueBrain> are you confusing me with frosch?
09:03:53  <TrueBrain> as that would be ... well .. I will judge you for that :)
09:04:09  <LordAro> possible
09:04:13  <LordAro> i don't keep track :p
09:04:15  <andythenorth> yo
09:04:18  <LordAro> o/
09:04:31  <LordAro> Mr ThenOrth
09:04:36  <LordAro> how are you today
09:04:39  <TrueBrain> ... you do not keep track .....
09:04:39  <andythenorth> everyone here is just the same bot codebase, with a different nick configured, right?
09:04:43  <TrueBrain> different people is SO HARD, I know right :P
09:04:49  * andythenorth assumes everyone else is just software
09:05:14  * andythenorth playing OpenTTD 
09:05:19  <TrueBrain> <- random page I looked at :D
09:05:33  <TrueBrain> amp it up baby!
09:06:39  <LordAro> Winamp it up
09:06:41  <TrueBrain> ah, this is a bug in gollum / wikicloth it seems :)
09:06:49  <TrueBrain> it is escaping the escape of the escape
09:06:52  <TrueBrain> pretty funny tbh :)
09:07:13  <TrueBrain> pretty sure this is the reason this page took 5+ seconds to render :P
09:07:42  <TrueBrain> lets see how big this page is :D
09:08:01  <TrueBrain> 1.4MB :)
09:08:23  <TrueBrain> it should be ~20 kB :)
09:08:23  <LordAro> my internet is terrible enough right now that i probably wouldn't notice
09:08:24  <TrueBrain> haha
09:08:38  <TrueBrain> it made it ... 70 times bigger with all the amping up :)
09:09:42  <TrueBrain> on other pages it is equal in speed to mediawiki itself
09:09:52  <TrueBrain> you would think Ruby would be faster than PHP, but ala
09:13:39  <TrueBrain> what is odd, that gollum keeps and keeps increasing in memory, which I assumed was a cache, but pages are as quick to load the first time as the second ..
09:13:48  <TrueBrain> so what is it doing :P
09:14:22  <LordAro> (void)malloc(something_big);
09:14:46  * LordAro is not being helpful today
09:15:19  <TrueBrain> anyway, I have gollum now rendering pages < 300ms for the wiki itself, with the exception of a few weird pages :)
09:15:25  <TrueBrain> the gollum "overview" pages how-ever ...
09:15:54  <TrueBrain> making a listing for 1300 pages takes 3 seconds, and is 1.2MB :P
09:16:05  <TrueBrain> pretty sure those pages are not useful ;)
09:22:46  <TrueBrain> okay, the memory increase does have to do with some form of cache .. it does not happen if I reload pages :)
09:24:00  <TrueBrain> there are funny bugs to fix .. like, in Gollum, shows the matrix inversed .. so <=1.0 is green, rest is red :P
09:26:37  <TrueBrain> and basically, out mediawiki content is such a collection of .. "attempts", that structure-wise it is one big mess .. not meaning content-wise, but how things are defined, what syntax is used,etc
09:33:57  <TrueBrain> LOL! Turns out gollum was running in development mode ...
09:34:05  <TrueBrain> which was the reason for booming in memory
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09:44:42  <TrueBrain> what is odd in the gollum implementation, there seems to be no cache-keys / etags / etc
10:01:45  <TrueBrain> okay, enough toying around with this .. speeded up browsing the wiki via gollum with a factor of 10 by adding nginx .. works-for-me :P
10:03:19  <LordAro> ha
10:05:31  <TrueBrain> there are some things that need resolving, before we can push this to production
10:06:27  <TrueBrain> GitHub was using Gollum, not?
10:06:40  <TrueBrain> I would have expected more polishing in that case ..
10:06:51  <TrueBrain> it is too bad I really do not understand Ruby :p Or have the intention to understand ...
10:07:27  <andythenorth> varnish-cures-all-ills
10:07:53  <TrueBrain> as our use-case is really simple, I am so tempted to make a simple Python wiki :P
10:08:04  <andythenorth> ha ha
10:08:20  <andythenorth> it's always good to remind ourselves why we don't write our own tools :D
10:08:29  <TrueBrain> for some reason, these wikis we have all integrate two things that have nothing to do with each other
10:08:31  <andythenorth> with practical demonstrations
10:08:36  <TrueBrain> you have editing pages
10:08:36  <andythenorth> what are the two things?
10:08:38  <TrueBrain> and you have reading pages
10:08:46  <andythenorth> oh yeah that shit
10:08:47  <TrueBrain> wikis closely integrate those two .. but .. why?
10:08:52  <TrueBrain> the reading part is VERY static
10:08:58  <TrueBrain> they NEVER change, until someone makes an edit
10:09:00  <andythenorth> basically most of my companies products are CMS
10:09:04  <TrueBrain> so .. generate HTML files and serve those?
10:09:06  <andythenorth> we used to have read/edit integrated
10:09:18  <TrueBrain> and make an edit page, where you can edit them
10:09:24  <andythenorth> now we have hardline, filesystem+runtime split between edit and serve
10:09:26  <TrueBrain> like BaNaNaS .. the read and write part are two completely different parts
10:09:36  <andythenorth> admin / public, it's a pattern
10:09:43  <TrueBrain> I don't mind if it is done by a single process etc
10:09:53  <andythenorth> details details :)
10:09:58  <TrueBrain> but the re-implementing of the read part ...
10:10:06  <TrueBrain> why does it take ~300ms to render a static page?
10:10:09  <TrueBrain> I mean .. IT NEVER CHANGES :P
10:10:14  <andythenorth> varnish :P
10:10:34  <TrueBrain> well, maybe more strongly worded: when a system has a rare-event, don't make that your main flow
10:10:38  <TrueBrain> edits are rare-events
10:10:51  <andythenorth> we should start a newsletter
10:10:55  <TrueBrain> varnish is nice, but you need to tell it to invalidate ;)
10:10:56  <andythenorth> or maybe do an XKCD
10:11:09  <TrueBrain> so that means someone needs to write enough Ruby to do so :P
10:11:44  <TrueBrain> but take Gollum .. checking who changed the page last is every time a few git cals to figure that out
10:11:46  <TrueBrain> I mean .. why?
10:12:16  <TrueBrain> I guess it is easy to forget storage is cheap :)
10:12:23  <andythenorth> because lots of us are terrible programmers
10:12:26  <andythenorth> just some of us know it
10:12:31  <TrueBrain> what I read people are doing with Gollum: run Gollum locally, and output the HTML external
10:12:35  <TrueBrain> like our Jekyll website :)
10:13:26  <TrueBrain> mediawiki is btw exactly the same, and also the reason it is this resource heavy
10:13:27  <LordAro> ha
10:13:54  <TrueBrain> LordAro: you are kinda repeating yourself ... are you choking? do we need to call someone?
10:14:22  <LordAro> ha
10:14:32  <TrueBrain> does anyone has his number? I am worried now :(
10:14:37  <LordAro> :p
10:15:30  <andythenorth> was it a cry for help?
10:15:47  <andythenorth> I guess wiki -> GitHub Pages was not a viable route then :D
10:16:14  <TrueBrain> it got shot down :P
10:16:34  <andythenorth> I tried GH Pages, it's kind of fine, and kind of odd
10:16:40  <andythenorth> anyway, ship has sailed
10:16:43  <TrueBrain> they latest version is a lot better :)
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10:18:43  <TrueBrain> well, what might be a solution, is to have gollum for editing pages, and use GH Actions to publish the wiki or something
10:19:33  <andythenorth> how rapidly do edits need to show up in public?
10:19:36  <andythenorth> not very rapidly?
10:20:50  * andythenorth searched 'varnish for gollum' but it was all LOTR figure painting :P
10:24:05  <LordAro> :D
10:29:33  <markymark> Hi, is there someone here who was on the OpenTTD project at the start?
10:33:56  <LordAro> there are a few people here who are suitably ancient, but i think you should just ask whatever question you have
10:34:48  <andythenorth> owen was nearly at the start
10:35:10  * andythenorth wants to hear the question now
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10:42:11  <markymark> hhahaha ok :-)
10:42:57  <markymark> I want to start a project myself for another game (Jagged Alliance: Deadly Games) and would appreciate some getting started tips.
10:43:07  <markymark> Better learn from the best
10:44:15  <LordAro> the very general answer to that is "reverse engineering"
10:44:35  <LordAro> which is a huge topic
10:44:51  <markymark> Besides that, aren't there any legal issues? regarding IP
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10:46:20  <LordAro> that's a very difficult topic without an awful lot of expensive lawyers :p
10:46:20  <markymark> if you want to use for instance all the graphics, sound, etc.
10:46:35  <LordAro> OTTD's initial reverse engineering was done in a country where it was legal
10:46:56  <LordAro> but even so, we don't distribute any of the original graphics/sounds/data
10:47:51  <markymark> yes, I was thinking about that but it would probably save a lot of work when you can reuse a lot of the original content.
10:48:07  <LordAro> reusing is fine
10:48:10  <LordAro> distributing is not
10:48:43  <markymark> yeah ok, but isn't distributing the point :-)
10:48:52  <markymark> otherwise you can only use it yourself
10:49:05  <LordAro> you can (probably) distribute whatever you have made
10:49:16  <markymark> yes agreed
10:49:22  <LordAro> everything else is "you must have a copy of the original game and put the files in <location>"
10:49:59  <markymark> ah right, so you could like rebuild the main "engine" part of the game and reference the use of the content from the original game
10:50:08  <LordAro> exactly, yeah
10:50:28  <markymark> I think you guys did the same in earlier versions of openttd right? Ive been around for a while also ;-)
10:50:37  <LordAro> yeah, exactly
10:50:43  <LordAro> a more recent example would be openrct2
10:51:19  <andythenorth> if you could identify who holds the copyright, your life would be easier
10:51:20  <markymark> ah that helps a lot
10:51:23  <andythenorth> but you probably can't
10:51:37  <markymark> no, I did some online searching, but it gets sketchy
10:51:39  <andythenorth> looks like sirtech no longer exists
10:51:43  <markymark> nope
10:51:45  <andythenorth> but there may be publishers holding rights
10:52:09  <andythenorth> and original authors may hold some copyright, depending on contract
10:52:53  <markymark> I will try to find a contact later on, knowing we could start without probably infringing on something
10:53:41  <markymark> ok, that helps for now. Having some early doubts out of the way :-)
10:54:13  <markymark> Thnx!
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11:32:11  <TrueBrain> to add to all of that, for OpenDUNE we reached out to what were most likely the copyright holders and people with distribution licenses, to figure out on how many toes we were going to step
11:32:19  <TrueBrain> but in games that are old, it is very very difficult
11:32:24  <TrueBrain> and companies start to point to each other
11:32:38  <TrueBrain> in the end, it is about taking a calculated risk, as least, for OpenDUNE it was
11:32:57  <TrueBrain> what still stands in that project: if any copyright holder complains that the project should not exist, it will be gone within that day
11:33:26  <TrueBrain> that is a calculated risk, that they won't sue you dry before giving you the chance to close shop :)
11:33:51  <TrueBrain> but still there, we do not distribute the graphics, as we could not get a distribution license for that
11:34:07  <TrueBrain> (nobody said no, but also nobody said yes :P)
11:36:09  <TrueBrain> the problem you will be facing with a game like Jagged Alliance, that there are still new versions coming out. So people still care. And that could possibly mean they don't appreciate 1-on-1 clones. So yeah, contacting the developers and publishers is the right first step :D
11:36:15  <TrueBrain> markymark: ^^ :)
11:45:25  <andythenorth> set up a UK limited company with no assets :P
11:45:29  <andythenorth> let that get sued
11:46:00  <andythenorth> the downside is that if you are a director of a company and you wilfully and knowingly let the company do illegal things, you are on the hook :)
11:46:05  <andythenorth> and sometimes even if you didn't know
11:46:16  <TrueBrain> exactly; so that doesn't really help
11:46:18  <TrueBrain> just delays :)
11:46:41  * andythenorth could have gone to prison if we'd killed The Stig by accident
11:47:12  <TrueBrain> do ... we want to know that is the scenario you picked as example? :P
11:48:24  <andythenorth>
11:48:57  <andythenorth> that shot was quite worrying, I wasn't on the job, but I got a phone call after the shot to say "we didn't kill the Stig, you're not going to prison"
11:49:14  <TrueBrain> not sure it is funny or sad :P
11:49:49  <andythenorth> me going to prison is not funny
11:50:00  <andythenorth> I can clarify any confusion on that point :P
11:51:31  <TrueBrain> :D
11:52:24  <andythenorth> is it lunchtime?
11:52:27  <andythenorth> bring back peter
11:52:37  <TrueBrain> start the summoning ritual!
11:52:38  <andythenorth> can we restore him from backups?
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12:11:52  <TrueBrain> do you really want to rollback a running instance? That sounds horrible, if you put it like that :P
12:13:00  <Eddi|zuHause> that would depend on whether that requires killing the already running instance :p
12:13:36  <TrueBrain> do you really want to risk someone recovers backup of me? Can anyone handle more than one? :P
12:15:13  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a different question :p
12:17:08  <andythenorth> might get conflict errors
12:17:25  <andythenorth> how would we know which version is canonical?
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14:05:56  <TrueBrain> @blame andythenorth
14:05:56  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: blames andythenorth
14:06:04  <TrueBrain> learn something new about your own bot every day ...
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14:12:29  <LordAro> TrueBrain: just think what new features we'll get when you upgrade it :p
14:12:45  <TrueBrain> well, I am removing many many many many of them, sorry :P
14:13:19  <LordAro> D:
14:13:57  <TrueBrain> I am always shocked how much a default install of such bots allow :P
14:16:47  <TrueBrain> " Dec  3  2012 github" <- folder on the current installation
14:17:07  <LordAro> nb.
14:17:13  <LordAro> what happened that day? :p
14:17:53  <glx> switching to limnoria ?
14:18:05  <TrueBrain> guess in 2012 we already did something with GitHub
14:18:10  <TrueBrain> took 6 more years to migrate to there :p
14:18:22  <TrueBrain> I think I made a sync-copy on GitHub on that date
14:18:35  <TrueBrain> lol .. 1 person is ignored by DorpsGek .. just 1
14:18:43  <TrueBrain> I think that ignore is there for years and years :D
14:18:56  <glx> who abused the bot ?
14:19:14  <TrueBrain> PeterT :D
14:22:57  <LordAro> i remember that guy
14:22:59  <LordAro> he didn't like me
14:24:08  <TrueBrain> you are not an exception there :)
14:24:12  <TrueBrain> he was .. young
14:24:31  <LordAro> mm
14:24:34  <LordAro> as was i :p
14:24:54  <TrueBrain> was? :P
14:25:03  <LordAro> relatively so
14:25:40  <TrueBrain> meh .. I remember was I was dreading doing this bot stuff ...
14:25:54  <TrueBrain> supybot is bringing a gun to a pillow fight
14:26:10  <TrueBrain> we want to use 1% of what it offers ...
14:26:17  <LordAro> i've had this link saved for a long time
14:26:29  <TrueBrain> hahahaha
14:26:35  <TrueBrain> him reporting anyone, that is cute :)
14:26:46  <LordAro> it's the first mention of "me" anywhere on irc
14:27:28  <TrueBrain> "<PeterT> He's been making images smaller so that they can fit HIS screen"
14:27:29  <TrueBrain> :D :D
14:27:48  <LordAro> iirc i was using a 1024x768 screen at the time
14:28:02  <TrueBrain> the good times :)
14:28:17  <LordAro> and yeah, reducing the width by 3px made it fit next to the banner
14:28:22  <LordAro> rather than wrapping
14:28:27  <LordAro> good times indeed.
14:29:31  <TrueBrain> that conversation is priceless
14:29:45  <TrueBrain> PeterT was this ADD kid everyone was wondering why he was running around for
14:31:16  <TrueBrain> <andythenorth_> PeterT: just go and play the game and get over it.  life is too short for internet pissant nonsense <- at least andythenorth hasn't changed in 10 years :P
14:31:40  <TrueBrain> LordAro: your first mention on IRC was 2009-09-06 :)
14:31:45  <TrueBrain> so a few months before that line :P
14:31:52  <LordAro> :o
14:31:59  <LordAro> i have been living a lie
14:32:22  <TrueBrain> not sure which channel .. I had to filter that out to get it sorted by date :D
14:32:56  <TrueBrain> ah, in a side-channel we had :)
14:33:24  <TrueBrain> <CENSORED> urgs... PeterT and LordAro are now both in #openttdcoop channel :-D
14:33:27  <TrueBrain> <CENSORED> currently he tries to help lordaro to get on one of our servers. Dunno which one actually :-)
14:33:28  <TrueBrain> :D
14:33:53  <LordAro> well that must be PM :p
14:33:54  <TrueBrain> and I have this on record:
14:33:55  <TrueBrain> 2009-08-22T20:31:52  *** lordaro has joined #openttd
14:34:03  <TrueBrain> it is the smileys, isn't it? :)
14:34:15  <LordAro> "our servers"
14:34:20  <TrueBrain> :)
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14:35:45  <TrueBrain> grepping anything in this massive archive takes FOR EVER :P
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14:36:01  <TrueBrain> what .. is frosch123 doing here this early?!
14:36:13  <TrueBrain> it is people-act-out-of-normal-day, I guess :D
14:36:25  <glx>  <TrueBrain> grepping anything in this massive archive takes FOR EVER :P <-- so many join/part messages ;)
14:42:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] alejandrofernandezalv opened issue #53: [gl_ES] Translator access request
14:43:15  <TrueBrain> 2010-08-27T09:14:30  <lordaro> i suspect it's something to do with this: <url-removed>
14:43:23  <TrueBrain> a year and 5 days on IRC before you said something
14:43:25  <TrueBrain> you are weird :P
14:44:51  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
14:45:25  <TrueBrain> @calc 970286 / 3465450
14:45:25  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.279988457487
14:45:41  <TrueBrain> glx: 27% of the logs are parts/joins
14:45:51  <TrueBrain> owh, and renames
14:46:15  <glx> oh on some days it's probably almost 90%
14:46:16  <TrueBrain> modes, kicks ..
14:46:49  <glx> and near 100% in some channels :)
14:46:59  <TrueBrain> this was only #openttd :P
14:47:23  <TrueBrain> 999 kicks
14:47:28  <TrueBrain> @kick Xaroth make that 1000
14:47:28  *** Xaroth was kicked by DorpsGek (make that 1000)
14:47:38  <glx> oups no auto rejoin
14:48:03  <TrueBrain> 356 bans
14:48:07  <TrueBrain> that is all not that much
14:48:28  <TrueBrain> 325 topics
14:48:30  <glx> ban list is currently empty
14:48:34  <TrueBrain> (in 13.5 years btw)
14:49:55  <TrueBrain> 36k renames .. lot of people cannot make up their name :D
14:50:33  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause is #3 on the list of nick renames :D Gratz!
14:50:43  <TrueBrain> andythenorth on a close #4
14:50:46  <glx> most of mine are because I lost connection for some reason
14:50:57  <TrueBrain> you are not even in the top 10
14:52:31  <TrueBrain> of those 1000 (hihi) kicks, 152 were because people tried openttdcoop commands in here
14:52:39  <glx> haha
14:52:51  <glx> and that happens only when I'm here
14:52:55  <TrueBrain> so that has been worth implementing, I guess :P
14:53:21  <frosch123>
14:53:43  <frosch123> i think that made it on some external irc quotes site
14:53:57  <TrueBrain> owh, bash .. bash was amazing :D
14:54:28  <frosch123> what? the shell?
14:54:49  <TrueBrain> no, the quote site :)
14:54:59  <TrueBrain>
14:55:02  <TrueBrain> it still exists, it seems :P
14:55:17  <TrueBrain> I knew that site before I knew the shell :)
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14:55:19  <Xaroth> ...
14:55:24  <TrueBrain> <3 Xaroth :)
14:55:26  <Xaroth> <3
14:55:28  <TrueBrain> you know you liked being kicked!
14:56:18  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain forced me to do it
14:56:29  <Xaroth> Oh you love kicking me, DorpsGek.
14:56:57  <TrueBrain> Supybot is really idiotic in how it maintains databases etc :P
14:57:07  <glx> supybot is old
14:57:13  <glx> and "dead"
14:57:19  <TrueBrain> the seen database is 705KiB of CSV :)
14:57:40  <TrueBrain> glx: when ever I say supybot, just read Limnoria
14:57:41  <frosch123> luckily it's not an excel database
14:57:43  <glx> hey it could be XML and twice as big
14:57:56  <TrueBrain> that is how their docs work too, and I fucking cannot remember that other fucking name
14:58:05  <TrueBrain> well, that seen database is rewritten every N minutes
14:58:09  <TrueBrain> full file rewrite
14:58:20  <TrueBrain> I am surprised it never got corrupted tbh :)
14:59:09  <TrueBrain> and we stopped with the "any" seen database, as that was even worse ... 3 times as big, I believe :)
15:03:17  <TrueBrain> frosch123: seen my PR? Not sure what to think of gollum .. have been reading their issue-tracker .. they don't really seem to care about performance
15:03:39  <TrueBrain> a dude with 4k pages and page-load times of 2 seconds, their reply was: at least it isn't as slow in the last version
15:04:02  <TrueBrain> s/slow in/slow as in/
15:05:03  <TrueBrain> owh, and if a page  has no translations it shows something about the translation cache being invalid :D But that is work from your diff, so I assumed you knew about that already :)
15:06:37  <frosch123> i also know about the case-sensitivity
15:06:51  <TrueBrain> cool :)
15:06:56  <frosch123> my conversion scripts replaces all page, image and template links
15:07:09  <frosch123> as you saw, the pages are now sorted into languages
15:07:19  <TrueBrain> some templates were also broken, like "warning"  instead of "en/Warning", but I was sure you would tackle them over time :)
15:07:25  <TrueBrain> yeah, it looks pretty nice
15:07:31  <frosch123> next i want to move the crap pages into archive, so the "many files in one directory" should reduce
15:07:36  <TrueBrain> the gollum-test-data layout looks really good tbh
15:07:47  <TrueBrain> but I am worried about the gollum performance
15:08:09  <frosch123> so, render all pages to disk, and only serve /gollum via gollum?
15:08:16  <frosch123> i.e. only edit+preview via gollum
15:08:17  <TrueBrain> I have been considering exactly that, yes
15:08:23  <TrueBrain> the main issue there is templates
15:08:29  <TrueBrain> difficult to see the full tree of what you need to invalidate
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15:08:36  <TrueBrain> (and rendering all pages on every edit .. well, no :P)
15:08:46  <frosch123> TrueBrain: oh, that part is easy
15:08:57  <frosch123> i already generate .category and .translation
15:09:14  <TrueBrain> which I was hoping you also weren't going to do every edit? :D
15:09:15  <frosch123> which can also be put into a some git hook to update based on diffs
15:09:22  <TrueBrain> btw, category was broken, as in, they are always empty :)
15:09:47  <frosch123> there are many things broken :)
15:09:57  <TrueBrain> but if we use gollum only for editing .. what is left of gollum? That isn't really a lot of code, is it?
15:10:22  <frosch123> well, searching (no idea how good is that), and preview and stuff
15:10:36  <TrueBrain> search make the memory go BOOOOOOOOOMMM :D
15:10:48  <frosch123> you tried? :)
15:11:08  <TrueBrain> yeah :D I tried as much functionality as I could to get a feeling for gollum to run it in production
15:11:47  <TrueBrain> btw, if you rebase, use "--committer-date-is-author-date" :)
15:11:58  <TrueBrain> looks prettier in GitHub :D
15:12:01  <TrueBrain> (totally not important)
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15:12:45  <frosch123> yeah, i only noticed that after push
15:12:53  <frosch123> local log does not show the commiter date
15:12:57  <TrueBrain> you can always do that, even after you "broke" it :)
15:13:11  <TrueBrain> it is one of the quirks in GitHub
15:13:19  <TrueBrain> they changed it a few times from commit to author to commit date, I believe :)
15:14:25  <frosch123> do you want to try some of the python mediawiki-parser ?
15:14:35  <frosch123> to see how good they are at templates and stuff
15:14:45  <frosch123> then we could use them to render the html to disk
15:15:06  <TrueBrain> yeah, I think that is a good road to explore
15:15:22  <TrueBrain> I was looking for Python implementations of a wiki, but they are .. euh .. well, I couldn't find any decent ones :D
15:16:22  <frosch123> haha, yeah, i did that research before. gollum is pretty much the only thing out there, that does git-based-data and mediawiki.-syntax
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15:19:21  <TrueBrain> <- I like how names can represent the frustration of authors :)
15:19:51  <frosch123> TrueBrain: btw. custom.css and custom.js are controlled in config.rb. i enabled them for now, since we probably use them both at some point
15:20:05  <TrueBrain> it was slowing everything down like a mofo :P
15:20:19  <frosch123> i did not notice, since loading 20+ flag icons took even longer
15:20:21  <TrueBrain> as they are js/css, the page was not really rendering before they returned .. 600ms later :P
15:20:26  <TrueBrain> :D
15:20:31  <TrueBrain> nginx really speeds shit up :P
15:21:10  <TrueBrain> now I found out how simple it is to have nginx as sidecar, it might also help with BaNaNaS etc :)
15:21:15  <andythenorth> are most of my renames me trolling? :P
15:21:16  <andythenorth> oof
15:22:54  <frosch123> TrueBrain: are you sure nginx is the sidecar, and not the other way around?
15:23:01  <TrueBrain> yup :)
15:23:13  <TrueBrain> nginx links to the gollum containers, and inherits the volumes
15:23:29  <TrueBrain> gollum runs fine without nginx, nginx not without gollum
15:23:33  <TrueBrain> that makes nginx the sidecar :)
15:24:04  <TrueBrain> you can skip using nginx if you like btw, just add the portforward on the "docker run" for gollum again :)
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15:35:00  <TrueBrain> sometimes projects impress me .. <- no open issues, over 1100 commits by the same author for over 5 years now .. clear wording etc .. that is some dedication
15:37:24  <frosch123> "Compared with mwparserfromhell" <- haha, looks like it's the reference standard :)
15:39:15  <frosch123> oh, and it lists the same wiki misfeatures as unsupported that i also broke when patching wikicloth
15:41:45  <TrueBrain> mwparserfromhell is used by 462 projects on GitHub
15:41:51  <TrueBrain> so yeah, it is a bit of a standard :)
15:42:10  <LordAro> "!!! Do not set RVS_TEMP to 'C:\' to test this !!!"
15:42:15  <LordAro> guess what happens
15:42:20  <TrueBrain> rm -rf? :)
15:42:31  <LordAro> only the files older than 12 hours!
15:42:38  <TrueBrain> hahahahahahahahahaa
15:42:44  <TrueBrain> hahahahahaha :D :D :D
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15:42:48  <TrueBrain> what a terrible way to leave your company :P
15:43:36  <LordAro> well the desktop would be getting wiped anyway :p
15:44:39  <TrueBrain> the worst part is, someone left that comment because .. it is not the first time :P
15:45:12  <LordAro> luckily this is a comment on a bug report
15:45:47  <LordAro> we think the code that deletes the files was written before RVS_TEMP was made to be overridable
15:50:58  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I guess this means I have to learn what all this stuff means in mediawiki ... ugh ... :P
15:51:07  <TrueBrain> like: {{en/-}}
15:51:10  <TrueBrain> wtf is that .. :P
15:51:27  <LordAro> part of the translation stuff
15:51:35  <LordAro> i think
15:51:42  <TrueBrain> you are right :)
15:51:44  <frosch123> it includes the template "Template/en/-.mediawiki"
15:52:06  <frosch123> just that some people like to name templates by using pictures
15:52:10  <TrueBrain> who the ... made a template named - :P
15:52:20  <frosch123> i think there were no emoticons at that time
15:52:26  <LordAro> someone who was adding it to every single page, i suspect
15:52:39  <LordAro> the shorter the better does make sense in that case
15:53:11  <TrueBrain> and now I need to understand how it works :D
15:54:50  <TrueBrain> owh, okay, that is what the [[Translation: syntax is doing
15:54:52  <TrueBrain> magic :)
15:55:17  <LordAro> well [[]] are internal wiki links
15:55:40  <LordAro> so linking to a page in the Translation namespace? :p
15:56:00  <TrueBrain> so all translation pages do "[[Translation:Main/en/Main Page]]{{en/-}}"
15:56:16  <TrueBrain> and that generates the language bar for every page :P
15:56:33  <TrueBrain> but I see frosch123 already wrote some python to do this :D
15:56:34  <frosch123> the "-" template is a line flush or something
15:56:51  <TrueBrain> it only contains "<div style="clear:both"></div>"
15:57:06  <TrueBrain> and it can be translated :P
15:57:07  <TrueBrain> lol
15:57:15  <frosch123> "Translation:" is now supposed to work like a category, it's jsut rendered differently
15:57:51  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i put all pages witout language-tag into "en", what else should i do?
15:58:08  <TrueBrain> I think that is fine
15:58:17  <TrueBrain> Main/pl/Szablon:-.mediawiki
15:58:27  <TrueBrain> that file is weird .. it is not really the - template, but it acts like it?
15:58:42  <TrueBrain> also .. why did they translate even "Template" into different languages? :D
15:58:54  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yeah, i have list of pages to just delte
15:59:23  <frosch123> some people create pages with wrong name, and then cannot delete them
15:59:27  <frosch123> so keep repeating to create new pages until they fixed all their typos
15:59:32  <TrueBrain> I fully understand :)
15:59:45  <frosch123> like that RTL char yesterday :p
16:00:11  <TrueBrain> so much dirt got into the wiki :)
16:00:12  <frosch123> or those two busstop graphics that only differ in company colours and in capitalisation
16:00:44  <TrueBrain> so .. I wonder .. does gollum store the file in the right language depending on the language tag?
16:00:53  <TrueBrain> or how does it know?
16:01:03  <frosch123> no, i invented those languages
16:01:32  <frosch123> {{Translate:foobar}} is a custom extension i invented :)
16:02:01  <TrueBrain> but so how do you see editing working?
16:02:06  <frosch123> well, it's [[Translate:foobar]]
16:02:40  <TrueBrain> owh, in the original wiki it lists all the translations?
16:02:44  <frosch123> TrueBrain: validate the names of all new pages to fit into the naming schema
16:03:02  <TrueBrain> so if you add a language, you have to alter that for all languages too?
16:03:16  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, in the current wiki all translators have to reference their translation from all other translations. O(n^2) edits for n languages :)
16:03:27  <TrueBrain> holy crap .. lolz
16:03:42  <TrueBrain> okay, good to know you invented this, fine by me, etc :)
16:03:46  <frosch123> oh, you have not seen the worst by far :)
16:03:47  <TrueBrain> why did you make it a link, not a template?
16:04:20  <frosch123> i had it a template first :) but the [[ ]] solution is better
16:04:26  <frosch123> it's not a link, but a category
16:04:55  <frosch123> categories work the same, you do [[Category:foobar]] somewhere in the page, and wiki renders it as something special at the bottom
16:05:20  <TrueBrain> or [[:Category:foobar]], I see in some cases .. lol
16:05:20  <frosch123> [[Translation:foobar]] can also be anywehre in the source, it is always rendered at top, but you can also put it into a sidebar or similar
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16:05:50  <frosch123> basically [[Category::foo]] and [[Translation:bar]] tag the page, and do not render anything in-place
16:05:54  <TrueBrain> so the difference between template and innerlinks is a bit weak in mediawiki, I see :)
16:06:04  <TrueBrain> as I also see [[File:]]
16:06:21  <frosch123> haha, you want a complete list? :p
16:06:29  <TrueBrain> eventually, I guess I have to :P
16:06:36  <TrueBrain> but for now I am trying to get a feeling what I am getting myself into :)
16:07:22  <TrueBrain> okay, so {{en/-}} exists because - doesn't have a translation, so it is put in "en"
16:07:31  <TrueBrain> which feels a bit weird I guess, but I understand
16:07:32  <frosch123> [http://external link] [[internal link]] [[Category:add page into category]] [[::Category:link to the category page]]  [[File:include image as img]] [[Media:just link to the image]] ...
16:07:54  <frosch123> {{include template}} {{functioncall:othermagic}}, ...
16:08:26  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what is your goal? i consider the data migration a WIP
16:08:39  <frosch123> next thing i want to fix are the differences in capitalisation
16:08:42  <TrueBrain> well, a Python-based "view" part :P
16:08:42  <frosch123> which breaks some pages
16:09:05  <frosch123> TrueBrain: sure, but i would recommend against writing yuor own paser
16:09:09  <frosch123> *parser
16:09:14  <TrueBrain> I was not planning to
16:09:33  <TrueBrain> I was, how ever, looking into how to make a renderer
16:09:44  <TrueBrain> but that was before I was told about the tons of odd stuff going on :)
16:11:20  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- which one do you prefer?
16:12:09  <LordAro> the former
16:12:13  <LordAro> #notandy
16:12:35  <frosch123> oh, i forgot... i should have asked the 3px expert
16:12:59  <TrueBrain> :D :D :D
16:15:39  <TrueBrain> okay, wikitextparser is a nice library to manipulate medawiki syntax :)
16:16:00  <frosch123> why do you want to manipulate it?
16:16:01  <andythenorth> frosch123 I like the red one
16:16:12  <andythenorth> TBH it's potato / potato
16:16:40  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I see 2 possibilities: 1) we wrap something around gollum to make static exports of the files .. means that after an edit, it takes N minutes to update the live site. 2) we write a Python render to HTML that does this based on the mediawiki files; most likely a lot quicker, and we can work in a language we know a bit more :)
16:17:06  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I just wrote a very simple mediawiki renderer in Python that replaces templates with some text .. hence: manipulate
16:17:35  <frosch123> ok. you sounded like you wanted to add a second conversion step for the whole data
16:17:51  <TrueBrain> nope; that is your department :)
16:18:27  <frosch123> i won't tell you more horror stories, to not distract you more :)
16:18:27  <TrueBrain> possibly you want to put everything that doesn't have an explicit language in a folder like "default", and still allow {{-}}
16:18:40  <TrueBrain> as in: if no language used, use default
16:18:55  <frosch123> "common" is somewhere further down on my list
16:18:58  <TrueBrain> but I guess that depends a bit how we want to solve it :)
16:19:08  <TrueBrain> do we want to write our own viewer or not, I guess
16:19:19  <TrueBrain> it seems like it is not -that- complicated tbh
16:19:47  <frosch123> as i see it, Main containly like 1k pages now (down from 10k with all translations, user pages and shit), which can be sorted manually into: keep or move to "archive"
16:20:41  <frosch123> (i mean Main/en)
16:20:47  <TrueBrain> I understood :)
16:23:41  <TrueBrain> okay, translations of templates is just weird :P
16:23:45  <TrueBrain> that went all places, it seems
16:24:37  <TrueBrain> so frosch123 , how are you building your migration-scripts .. lot of seds? :)
16:24:46  <frosch123> sometimes it is valid, when templates contain plain text. sometimes translators only wanted to translate the "how to use this template" part
16:24:58  <glx> frosch123: I prefer .png because the building is not hidden in the grass
16:25:35  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, python with lots of regexp. maybe it would have been smarter to use some existing mediawiki->ast thingie. but too late :)
16:26:05  <TrueBrain> "<noinclude>'''Broken translation link'''{{en/-}}</noinclude>{{ambox"
16:26:31  <TrueBrain> guess that is the {{Other_languages}} where your script failed?
16:26:37  <TrueBrain> (just trying to get a feeling; no judgement :D)
16:26:40  <frosch123> i guess i can just strip that template from templates
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16:27:22  <TrueBrain> what a mess what a mess
16:27:27  <TrueBrain> how are we going to make soup out of this? :)
16:27:35  <TrueBrain> well, after dinner, I will see how difficult a Python frontend really is
16:27:43  <TrueBrain> if it is easy, that might work better than wrapping Gollum
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16:28:22  <TrueBrain> so far, wikitextparser is really nice, as it allows you to easily modify the resulting document
16:28:50  <andythenorth> TrueBrain you can email Bill Drummond for help making soup,11710,1220776,00.html
16:29:02  <TrueBrain> okay, that is my queue to get to dinner :)
16:31:52  <frosch123> glx: <- which one do you prefer? :p
16:34:09  <frosch123> 9 cases of these duplicate pages
16:34:20  <frosch123> i guess i'll ask the dice
16:34:39  <glx> Coca-cola is not even fully translated
16:35:12  <frosch123> lol, yeah, the last sentence was too much
16:38:22  <glx> anyway I don't get why they added "coca-"
16:38:30  <glx> cola was enough
16:40:03  <glx> and in game the translation is "cola"
16:40:42  <frosch123> <- if we sell prints of that, we can pay aws for years
16:41:48  <glx> lol
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17:43:40  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i see "Coding Style" breaks gollum a lot :)
17:43:51  <TrueBrain> it escapes the escaping of the escape
17:43:56  <TrueBrain> your .translation HTML is invalid btw :D
17:44:02  <TrueBrain> took me a while to figure out why it failed to render .. :P
17:44:13  <TrueBrain> <img src="/uploads/zh/Flag.png"</img> <- it ismissing a > :)
17:44:32  <frosch123> oh, my browser fixed that
17:47:27  <TrueBrain> I found a bug in wikitextparser :D
17:47:59  <frosch123> oh dear... we ended up considering gollum unusable, and now you also find bugs in the next thing? :p
17:48:13  <TrueBrain> at least this is a language in which we can fix stuff :)
17:48:42  <frosch123> oh, i concluded that ruby is a troll language
17:48:54  <frosch123> of all the language design choices, it always picks the worst combination
17:49:43  <TrueBrain> basically, the length of a string is only decided at init; if you update it later, it never applies that update :D
17:50:29  <TrueBrain> it is pretty nice, it tries to not copy strings as much as possible
17:50:39  <TrueBrain> so subclasses have: it is in this "object" from byte N to M
17:52:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:52:05  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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17:52:44  <TrueBrain> or maybe I am replacing these objects wrong .. always a possibility too, ofc :D
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18:01:37  <frosch123> pushed new test-data
18:01:48  <frosch123> the capitalisation issues should be solved now
18:01:51  <frosch123> and some more
18:02:23  <TrueBrain> sweet
18:16:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] frosch123 commented on issue #53: [gl_ES] Translator access request
18:16:40  <frosch123> so many people join github for us :)
18:18:32  <TrueBrain> frosch123: ah, you moved the {{en/-}} into the translation thingy
18:19:04  <frosch123> TrueBrain: the final goal for the translation thingie is to get put into a sidebar, or the header or something, but not in the main content
18:19:23  <TrueBrain> okay, that should be doable
18:19:37  <frosch123> it groups pages, it's no page content
18:20:38  <TrueBrain> hmm ... the problem seems to be with inline styles, I am having
18:20:43  <TrueBrain> not so much with what I was doing
18:23:26  <frosch123> 4 failed invitations meanwhile :) 8%
18:38:56  <TrueBrain> ha, found the bug .. it only goes wrong when the text STARTS with [[ :)
18:43:33  <TrueBrain>
18:43:39  <TrueBrain> see, I can debug this in Python ! :D
18:46:47  <LordAro> 100% line coverage is impressive
18:49:16  <TrueBrain> that whole repo is impressive
18:49:20  <TrueBrain> I wish every repo was like this
18:49:46  <TrueBrain> funny, if in mediawiki you make a link to your own page, it doesn't make it a link, it seems :P
18:50:55  <frosch123> yes, that's an often used feature
18:51:21  <frosch123> <- do you see the link box on the right
18:51:38  <frosch123> that box is used on all pages, yet the current page is not a link
18:51:38  <TrueBrain> that was where I noticed it :)
18:51:46  <frosch123> :p
18:52:00  <frosch123> i did not support that in gollum btw :p
18:52:18  <TrueBrain> a single if-statement in Python, easy :P
18:56:19  <TrueBrain> wtf is ''' ... I need to learn mediawiki :P
18:56:46  <frosch123> bold
18:57:01  <frosch123> '' italic, ''' bold, '''' no idea
18:57:12  <TrueBrain> because, why not ... lol
18:57:21  <TrueBrain> ''''' bold and italic
18:57:22  <TrueBrain> lol
18:57:39  <frosch123> is it bold first or italic first? :p
19:00:13  <frosch123> andythenorth: sorry, i meant to say "idiomatic"
19:04:35  <TrueBrain> frosch123: italic first, it turns out
19:05:23  <frosch123> i guess browsers do not care about <i><b>foo</i>bar</b> :)
19:05:39  <frosch123> poor xhtml
19:06:39  <TrueBrain> hmm .. middot is replaced by :
19:08:17  <TrueBrain> ah, no, it is not
19:08:43  <TrueBrain> guess a : also has some sorts of meaning
19:08:55  <frosch123> yes, indent
19:09:00  <frosch123> but only in first position
19:09:05  <TrueBrain> .....
19:09:16  <TrueBrain> what was wrong with markdown again? :P
19:09:19  <frosch123> * itemize
19:09:23  <frosch123> # numerize
19:09:26  <frosch123> : indent
19:09:32  <frosch123> doesn't markdown do the same?
19:09:47  <TrueBrain> most likely :)
19:09:54  <TrueBrain> :''[[Signals]]''
19:09:57  <TrueBrain> this was just throwing me off
19:10:04  <TrueBrain> the parser library does the right thing btw
19:13:28  <frosch123> <- i thought i knew this game
19:13:47  <andythenorth> hmm the tank game is quite full of silly racists
19:13:58  <andythenorth> probably woke twitter says I should stop playing
19:14:09  <andythenorth> but why should they silly racists get to dictate my life?
19:14:20  <andythenorth> I don't think cancelling wins much
19:20:50  <TrueBrain> <- second one! :D
19:20:57  <TrueBrain> mediawiki is fun .. so much fucked up shitty details ..
19:21:07  <TrueBrain> who in his right mind makes ":" mean something else depending on the context
19:22:06  <TrueBrain> owh, funny enough mediawiki itself implements it as a list ... haha
19:23:52  <TrueBrain> not following your own formatting guide
19:23:52  <TrueBrain> w00p
19:25:51  <andythenorth> "I like html"
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19:29:51  <TrueBrain> you have includeonly and onlyinclude
19:30:04  <TrueBrain> never knew mediawiki was this hilarious :)
19:31:05  <frosch123> apparently they mean different things
19:31:22  <frosch123> but only if you transclude non-template pages
19:32:55  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- better than tanks?
19:33:47  <TrueBrain> how cute :)
19:35:36  <TrueBrain> wtf does {! !} do?
19:35:41  <TrueBrain> or {| |} sorry
19:36:10  <frosch123> tables
19:36:14  <TrueBrain> ah, yes, ofc
19:36:24  <TrueBrain> why not have EVERYTHING on a single page I am trying to render ..
19:36:25  <TrueBrain> lol
19:37:16  <TrueBrain> frosch123: you replaced Image with File, I assume?
19:37:29  <frosch123> yes
19:37:37  <TrueBrain> why? (honest question)
19:37:47  <frosch123> "Image" is deprecated
19:37:53  <TrueBrain> gotcha, tnx :)
19:38:13  <frosch123> no idea why they decided for one or the other
19:38:31  <frosch123> "Media" is different though :p
19:38:32  <TrueBrain> I like that you changed wikipedia: for decent links :)
19:38:43  <TrueBrain> however, please make it https :D
19:39:06  <frosch123> should we do that with all external links?
19:39:13  <frosch123> (some may not support it)
19:39:40  <TrueBrain> if they support it, yes
19:39:47  <TrueBrain> [[wikipedia:Open source|open source]] -> [ source open source]
19:39:58  <TrueBrain> this is wrong :) Should be: [ open source]
19:40:22  <TrueBrain> I good bugfinder yes yes? :D
19:40:42  <DorpsGek> Good boy :)
19:42:27  <andythenorth> frosch123 less casually racist than tanks I think
19:45:52  <TrueBrain> okay, now I need CSS ...
19:46:47  <andythenorth> you never need CSS
19:46:59  <andythenorth> <font>
19:48:35  <TrueBrain> where do I find the CSS gollum/mediawiki uses .. :D
19:49:10  <frosch123>
19:49:31  <frosch123> probably not useful :)
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19:50:11  <TrueBrain> just going to "borrow" the gollum one
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19:57:47  <TrueBrain> okay, this renders pretty easily
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19:59:19  <TrueBrain> " AI:Main Page"
19:59:21  <TrueBrain> ugh ...
19:59:31  <frosch123> don't worry
19:59:33  <TrueBrain> that is the only namespace really, isn't it?
19:59:36  <TrueBrain> will you remove it?!
19:59:36  <frosch123> i'll probably rename those
19:59:37  <TrueBrain> YES YES?!
19:59:39  <TrueBrain> :D
19:59:41  <TrueBrain> <3 <3
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19:59:51  <frosch123> and no, it's not a namespace
19:59:57  <frosch123> that's the main problem with it
20:00:36  <TrueBrain> I can render the Coding Style in 0.08s, including Python startup
20:00:50  <frosch123> lol :)
20:01:09  <TrueBrain> owh, it got cut off at the end .. let me fix that :D
20:01:53  <TrueBrain> ah, no, the page just ends really odd
20:01:54  <TrueBrain> lol
20:02:33  <TrueBrain> what I currently do: I resolve all templates, embed them in the main document
20:02:46  <TrueBrain> after that, I parse bold, italic, lists, sections, external links and wikilinks
20:02:50  <TrueBrain> not sure that is the right way around
20:03:02  <TrueBrain> (in other words: a template with a wikilink will be relative from the page that uses the template)
20:03:15  <TrueBrain> (wikilink == [[ ]] )
20:03:33  <frosch123> relative? they are all absolute paths
20:04:00  <TrueBrain> well, I mean I read somewhere [[Category::PATH]] or something
20:04:20  <TrueBrain> [[Category:en/Manual|{{PAGENAME}}]]
20:04:26  <TrueBrain> owh, its a template
20:04:36  <TrueBrain> well, it is now first embedded in the main page
20:04:39  <TrueBrain> then it is resolved
20:05:19  <frosch123> i think that's the correct order :)
20:05:25  <TrueBrain> good :)
20:05:55  <frosch123> does it support those #ifexpr ?
20:06:03  <TrueBrain> which page uses it?
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20:09:15  <frosch123> <- those green and red boxes
20:10:57  <TrueBrain> it does parse them correctly; but this is just a lexer I think
20:12:25  <TrueBrain> yeah, so it parses them, but I would have to implement them :)
20:13:38  <TrueBrain> and wtf does {{{ mean in this context :P Lets find out!
20:13:46  <frosch123> those are the parameters
20:14:23  <frosch123> {{Foobar|Param1|Param2}}  includes Template:Foobar with {{{1}}} = "Param1" etc
20:14:45  <TrueBrain> but I also have {{{type|}}}
20:14:45  <frosch123> looks like you need to implement a lot then :(
20:15:14  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, named parameter {{Foobar|type=yolo}} and default value
20:15:19  <TrueBrain> ah!
20:15:21  <TrueBrain> cheers :)
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20:31:47  <TrueBrain> oef, ifexpr is nasty :P
20:33:28  <TrueBrain> well, it does render at least :)
20:51:45  <frosch123> meh, why does outlook use ctrl+q for "mark as read". i close my private mailtool so often...
20:53:49  <TrueBrain> .... LOL
20:53:51  <TrueBrain> that is stupid :)
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21:12:29  <TrueBrain> frosch123: {{# stuff mostly works
21:12:38  <TrueBrain> at least the Page you gave renders correctly
21:12:42  <TrueBrain> 1 thing .. I use eval() atm :P
21:12:44  <TrueBrain> that .. needs fixing :D
21:12:55  <TrueBrain> was only 50 lines of code
21:20:39  <frosch123> let's see whether those turn into 5000 by the end of the week :)
21:20:50  <TrueBrain> in total it is now 200 lines
21:21:02  <TrueBrain> and it renders most things
21:21:06  <TrueBrain> so doubling is likely
21:22:37  <frosch123> <- how do those pages look like? gollum had issues with the image/text flow
21:23:10  <TrueBrain> same person made them or something? :D
21:23:39  <frosch123> just random pages i visited
21:23:54  <TrueBrain> same visitor!! :D
21:25:20  <frosch123> <- what's at the NE border?
21:25:29  <frosch123> though "berlin" is funny :p
21:25:45  <TrueBrain> This message box is using an invalid "type={{{type|}}}" parameter and needs fixing.
21:25:48  <TrueBrain> ALMOST correct :P
21:28:39  <TrueBrain> there is a bug in the ambox template
21:28:43  <TrueBrain> and it is an annoying one
21:28:53  <TrueBrain>
21:28:58  <TrueBrain> }} padding: 4px 8px; background:#efefef; min-height: 44px;">}}
21:29:00  <TrueBrain> the > is inside the template
21:29:14  <TrueBrain> I am not sure how mediawiki can render this
21:29:33  <TrueBrain> or if you use style, you have to add a >
21:30:44  <frosch123> fix it :)
21:30:52  <TrueBrain> NO clue if there are any side-effects
21:31:38  <frosch123> pretty sure it's not intentional
21:31:46  <frosch123> it's okay to break anything that relies on it
21:33:00  <TrueBrain> nothing SEEMS to be using "style"
21:33:41  <TrueBrain> it is done
21:38:28  <frosch123> night
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21:42:00  <TrueBrain> [File:en/. Content.png\n\n|40px]] (I replaced newlines with \n)
21:42:03  <TrueBrain> wtf happened there :P
21:42:15  <TrueBrain> I think frosch's converter failed there :D
21:44:03  <TrueBrain> cannot blame him, it is in reality a switch-case
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22:04:55  <TrueBrain> {{#if:{{{post|}}}&}} <- isn't that a noop statement? :o
22:09:28  <TrueBrain> in fact, it is broken :)
22:09:31  <TrueBrain> why do I find broken templates ....
22:09:48  <TrueBrain> funny, tt-forums fixes the broken URL :D
22:15:59  <TrueBrain> owh, redirects are not implemented :(
22:21:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8123: "Unable to find local depot" on dead-end tram tracks (regardless of location)
22:25:18  <TrueBrain> cool, a cycle in templates :D
22:27:15  <TrueBrain> is the only page that implements the fancy keypress icons :)
22:27:34  <TrueBrain> owh, no, also on
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22:39:31  <TrueBrain> {{other languages|en=NewTowns|pl=NewTowns}}{{-}} <- seems soneone was already doing what frosch is now doing :)
22:47:48  <TrueBrain> <- I guess frosch123 considered these pages silly .. they exist for all %5 it seems ..
22:47:57  <TrueBrain> one weird way of avoiding a switch :)
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23:07:13  <TrueBrain> lol, he exported "Requests for Deletion" page :D
23:21:57  <TrueBrain> right .. enough for one day .. it currently takes 25 seconds to render 1171 pages .. not too shabby :)
23:22:23  <TrueBrain> owh, and I can parse 1171 pages without error .. in the migration a few things need to be fixed however, but that is not my department :D
23:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause is #3 on the list of nick renames :D Gratz! <-- that must be from way back when i had daily disconnects
23:33:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember researching dbus commands to manually disconnect IRC before the scheduled disconnect, to avoid ghosting all the time
23:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that was a fairly gargantuan crontab entry :)

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