Log for #openttd on 15th October 2020:
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04:30:13  <rptr_> what happened to AIList.HasNext()? :S
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07:08:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] Luensche opened issue #56: [de_DE] Translator access request
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07:32:46  <rptr_> is there a pathfinder which follows existing networks to see if two tiles are already connected by rail?
07:32:51  <rptr_> (ai)
07:43:44  <LordAro> rptr_: admiral, trains & choochoo actually make proper rail networks, iirc
07:44:14  <rptr_> LordAro, i know. i meant, i have a network already, and i want to know if two tiles are connected with rail
07:44:30  <LordAro> rptr_: also, HasNext was removed over 10 years ago...
07:44:35  <rptr_> like, pathfinder but follow the rails. i guess i can write it myself
07:44:46  <rptr_> LordAro, huh! but i wrote some code in january using hasnext which worked O_O
07:45:08  <LordAro> if the compatibility mode is set old enough, it will work
07:45:11  <rptr_> oh ok.
07:45:16  <rptr_> guess that was the thing then
07:46:01  <LordAro> pathfinder - there's indeed no existing library functions, i was meaning you can look at the code of those AIs to see how they do it
07:47:56  <rptr_> ah ok
07:48:36  <rptr_> yeah i was looking at some of the other AIs
08:57:35  <TrueBrain> the author of wikitextparser already fixed one of the more annoying bugs I had \o/ That dude is quick :)
08:58:33  <andythenorth> open source :)
08:58:37  <andythenorth> the upsides
08:59:36  <TrueBrain> I wish I maintained my repositories like this, tbh :P
09:00:41  <rptr_> i just found there's an Open Cola (open source coca cola recipe)
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10:06:54  <TrueBrain> whoho, I can render all the english pages again :)
10:07:39  <andythenorth> nice
10:07:48  * andythenorth encouragement-as-a-service
10:07:57  <andythenorth> we should make an encourage-bot?
10:12:28  <TrueBrain> it got depressed
10:12:38  <TrueBrain> (hmm ... Marvin ... the best robot ever :P)
10:23:27  <andythenorth> paranoid android
10:29:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #54: [es_ES] Translator access request
10:29:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #55: [es_MX] Translator access request
10:47:50  <Eddi|zuHause> marvin is great. i like marvin
11:07:16  <TrueBrain> can't believe glx does approve only 2 out of the 3 open requests :P
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11:42:46  <Eddi|zuHause> this slacker :p
11:43:38  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i was trying to reverse engineer a savegame format for an old game... online search shows some russian site which has some partial information, but not the information i need
11:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so i tried making savegames where i only change minimal things, but that makes huge differences in the resulting file
11:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause> now i need a sane binary diff, that can handle data shifting around by a few bytes
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12:39:02  <TrueBrain> ghehe, frosch exported a page called "Index.php/Image:Fractal Landscape.scn" .. that is not a wikipage! :D
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12:44:43  <TrueBrain> <- most things should be fine now; given some export errors
12:44:57  <TrueBrain> only "rowspan" is acting up; needs a fix in the wikitextparser
12:47:12  <TrueBrain> and it is crazy fast :D
12:47:54  <TrueBrain> even seems to be doing fine :)
12:49:04  <andythenorth> faster!
12:49:16  <andythenorth> no wow, that is fast actually
12:49:23  <TrueBrain> :D
12:49:30  <TrueBrain> and that is with zero (!) caching
12:49:35  <TrueBrain> not even the flags are being cached
12:49:48  <TrueBrain> hell, I think it loads css every request ..
12:49:57  <TrueBrain> it does
12:50:02  <TrueBrain> which takes 100ms .. :D
12:50:16  <TrueBrain> which makes it 300% slower than needed
12:50:41  <andythenorth> that running on your machine?
12:50:43  <andythenorth> or a server?
12:50:55  <TrueBrain> local machine
12:51:03  <TrueBrain> and bounced via ngrok
12:51:15  * andythenorth is contemplating ngrok
12:51:16  <LordAro> ttps:// external links (within ()?) are sad
12:51:17  <TrueBrain> but this wikitextparser library is stupid fast
12:51:19  <andythenorth> no more opening ports
12:51:30  <TrueBrain> LordAro: your link is sad!
12:51:39  <LordAro> i blame chrome
12:51:54  <andythenorth> FWIW our dev machines are about 4x the performance of the cloud hosts we use :P
12:52:00  <andythenorth> catches us out sometimes
12:52:02  <TrueBrain> and let me see if I can fix those links .. not sure what is happening :)
12:52:07  <LordAro> no, not just the links within ()
12:52:35  <LordAro> something weird going on with the text at the top of the page too "Main/en/OpenTTD 1.10.2"
12:53:07  <TrueBrain> PAGENAME, let me fix that :)
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12:53:33  <TrueBrain> fixed the header
12:54:22  <TrueBrain> okay, all the links via the template are not working .. hmm ...
12:54:40  <TrueBrain> there we go!
12:55:23  <LordAro> that looks better :)
12:55:39  <TrueBrain> and I am missing tons of CSS btw
12:55:47  <TrueBrain> if you open up gollum.css, you are going to cry :P
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12:56:29  <LordAro> everyone loves minified css
12:56:34  <TrueBrain> scroll lower
12:56:39  <TrueBrain> llloooowwwwweeeerrrr :P
12:56:44  <LordAro> ...with lots of whitespace
12:56:54  <TrueBrain> it is ... "partially" minified :D
12:57:04  <TrueBrain> but that is my handywork :)
12:59:41  <TrueBrain> but it appears to be an acceptable solution for our wiki ..
12:59:44  <LordAro> is this the rowspan issue you mentioned?
12:59:49  <TrueBrain> silly fast .. low on memory ..
12:59:55  <TrueBrain> yes
13:00:02  <TrueBrain> well, n
13:00:02  <TrueBrain> o
13:00:05  <TrueBrain> sorry, I was too hasty :P
13:00:14  <TrueBrain> that page is odd .. let me investigate :D
13:00:49  <TrueBrain> <- this is an example of rowspan :)
13:01:04  <TrueBrain> this is a table in a table that is not being picked up :)
13:01:48  <LordAro> all of the scenario pages appear to be blank
13:01:53  <LordAro> e.g.
13:02:18  <TrueBrain> yeah, export issues
13:02:24  <LordAro> looks like they're using some weird template system
13:02:33  <TrueBrain> the {{Scenario is not being translated
13:02:43  <LordAro> ideally it'd be some sort of dynamic filter page
13:02:47  <TrueBrain> should be {{en/Scenario in the next syntax frosch made up :)
13:03:00  <LordAro> rather than having to explicitly list scenarios individually
13:03:09  <TrueBrain> you can bind it to categories
13:03:16  <TrueBrain> that is about it, in mediawiki
13:03:24  <TrueBrain> if we do this "render ourself" stuff, we can what-ever :P
13:06:27  <LordAro> we use this at work
13:06:29  <LordAro> works quite well
13:06:35  <LordAro> i can't show you an example though :p
13:12:06  <TrueBrain> pretty sure our wiki is already fucked up enough .. not sure that adding extensions is going to help :D
13:12:13  <LordAro> :p
13:15:34  <TrueBrain> seriously, the amount of crap people have been trying to do .. it is insane :)
13:15:47  <TrueBrain> the "rf status" is my favourite
13:15:56  <TrueBrain> just make 20 templates with 0% .. 5% .. 10% .. etc in them
13:16:01  <TrueBrain> to render the % status ..
13:16:19  <TrueBrain> (that user clearly did not know "switch" as available)
13:16:31  <LordAro> oh no
13:17:11  <TrueBrain>
13:17:25  <TrueBrain> it is a gem :)
13:18:05  <LordAro> i'd suggest that switch wasn't a thing in 2009, but i think we know that's not true
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13:20:59  <TrueBrain> fixed
13:22:51  <TrueBrain> hmm .. in my chrome, I now see my keyboard cursor where I click, blinking
13:22:55  <TrueBrain> wtf .. how did that happen
13:23:18  <TrueBrain> and how do I get that off :)
13:23:43  <TrueBrain> F7
13:23:44  <TrueBrain> fine
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13:32:05  <TrueBrain> awh, the Scenario namespace is not exported, so I cannot render that :(
13:32:56  <TrueBrain> <- at least that is a bit more readable :)
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13:51:06  <TrueBrain> right, about as much as I can do without a new export :D
13:51:21  <TrueBrain> guess we have to make a choice if we want gollum to do the editing, or that we implement that ourself too
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15:10:56  <frosch123> i think a custom wiki editing thingie is way less work than bananas
15:11:31  <frosch123> i keep thinking about it, but i can only come up with about 3 forms
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15:12:51  <TrueBrain> I have the same :)
15:12:55  <TrueBrain> it seems to dull simple
15:13:01  <TrueBrain> so I guess we are going to do this :P
15:15:37  <TrueBrain> currently I am comparing HTML with mediawiki and my renderer, just to see if there are obvious things wrong
15:15:43  <TrueBrain> mediawiki is .. weird with when it adds <p>
15:18:52  <TrueBrain> it is a bit ... can a <dl> be inside a <p> or not
15:18:55  <TrueBrain> I don't know the answer :D
15:19:19  <frosch123> we would not even have to implement a page to display the history/diff. we can just link to the gh page that does the same
15:19:58  <TrueBrain> it sometimes is useful to view history, as in, rendered
15:20:02  <TrueBrain> but for diff I fully agree
15:20:05  <frosch123> TrueBrain: iirc when i wrote the bananas templates, someone scolded me for putting a ul into a p
15:20:19  <frosch123> apparently lists are not supposed to be inside paragraphs
15:20:27  <TrueBrain> LordAro tends to have an opinion on that yes :P
15:21:15  <LordAro> do i?
15:21:46  <TrueBrain> ugh, this adding of <p> is not fun .. I really need a library that does it for me :P
15:23:57  <TrueBrain> <- ignoring a few <p>, this renders very similar to mediawiki now .. exception are the anchors of section titles
15:25:46  <TrueBrain> diff is slightly difficult, because of some URLs that changed .. mostly \s to _
15:26:03  <TrueBrain> but I am pretty happy with this result :D Some minor tweaking so I can diff in an automated way
15:26:11  <TrueBrain> means I can scan more pages
15:26:19  <TrueBrain> to see if we have a different ... understanding, of the code :D
15:27:51  <frosch123> looks nice :) i only notice the missing link colors: same page, existing page, missing page
15:28:04  <TrueBrain> missing page does render properly
15:28:10  <TrueBrain> but CSS is a mess :)
15:28:18  <TrueBrain> same page also renders
15:28:21  <TrueBrain> not sure what you mean?
15:28:27  <frosch123> there is a spurios <nowiki> on that page
15:28:35  <TrueBrain> yeah, still not sure how to handle that :P
15:28:51  <TrueBrain> I have to do some tests with it :)
15:29:18  <frosch123>  <- the "EN" at the top looks very different
15:29:31  <frosch123> oh wait, that's probably because you still use my indexer?
15:29:49  <TrueBrain> I am! I was hoping fort a new export soon :D
15:29:53  <frosch123> (btw. it's funny how many more languages are linked now)
15:30:21  <TrueBrain> owh, and because you rendered the language bar as HTML, it does not do "you are on this page"
15:30:29  <TrueBrain> I think we have to make it a mediawiki file
15:30:36  <TrueBrain> that would allow me to fix that easily :D
15:31:00  <TrueBrain> I am still not sure about the URL btw ..
15:31:03  <frosch123> yeah, this was the easier solution in gollum :p
15:31:06  <TrueBrain> en/Main would make more sense to me
15:31:27  <TrueBrain> but okay, bikeshedding
15:31:30  <frosch123> i'll write more about that later :)
15:31:57  <TrueBrain> the most issues left are because of the export, as far as I know :)
15:32:05  <TrueBrain> which is a luxury issue tbh :P
15:33:04  <TrueBrain> I am still surprised by how fast this is
15:33:08  <TrueBrain> and the Python code really is not efficient
15:33:28  <TrueBrain> (where wikitextparser avoids copies where possible .. I just copy strings all over the place :P)
15:34:46  <TrueBrain> hmm, found a page where lists are rendered poorly .. LETS INVESTIGATE! :D
15:36:01  <frosch123> i see, you keep the wikitextparser guy busy :)
15:36:39  <TrueBrain> yeah .. found a few bugs :D
15:36:46  <TrueBrain> all on weird edge-cases, tbh
15:36:57  <TrueBrain> all except 1 I have fixed locally
15:37:01  <TrueBrain> I hope he can fix that 1
15:37:10  <TrueBrain> so far he has been fixing 1 per day, so we should be done by the end of the weekend :D
15:39:26  <TrueBrain> <- fixed the page \o/ :D
15:39:32  <TrueBrain> it is funny how simple it is :P
15:40:23  <TrueBrain> I am also slowly replacing the prints on console about missing stuff, to in-page errors
15:42:27  <TrueBrain> <- those images are so small, because the table is set to 5px in width ....
15:43:10  <TrueBrain> but that is CSS bla :P
15:46:31  <TrueBrain> I like how a mess mediawiki really is .. {{BLA}} can be a variable, or a parser-function
15:46:38  <TrueBrain> but you also have NOTOC and TOC
15:46:42  <TrueBrain> _ _ TOC _ _
15:46:49  <TrueBrain> because .. {{TOC}} was too weird? :P
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15:47:16  <TrueBrain> I mean .. it is not a function, not a variable .. it is just something else all together
15:49:26  <frosch123> that kind of stuff exists in most languages. python is a noteable exception
15:49:42  <TrueBrain> it used to exist in Python, but they weeded it out :P
15:50:15  <frosch123> the worst are languages which use ascii-art-arrows everywhere "<", "=>", "->" etc..
15:50:53  <frosch123> python is extremly consistent with always using ":" where other language use many different separators
15:52:32  <frosch123> <- unfortunately it also caught c++20. concepts are really nice, but the syntax is the worst
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16:03:51  <TrueBrain> okay, the diff really is minimal so far .. and I think I know how to fix <p> properly
16:03:57  <TrueBrain> will do that after dinner :D
16:04:18  <TrueBrain> the HTML mediawiki outputs is not .. the best .. but making it the same at least makes it easier to spot any parsing issues :)
16:07:26  <frosch123> poor admins at work... i ran out of popcorn at noon, watching all the pitchforks hungering for admins :)
16:08:03  <frosch123> but it is still ongoing
16:12:48  <TrueBrain> What did you break? :p
16:13:08  <frosch123> oh, i am just a spectator
16:14:03  <frosch123> the mail server now inserts a big red do-not-trust banner to all mails from extern
16:14:14  <frosch123> which is probably really useful for people who mostly communicate internally
16:14:36  <frosch123> but the problem is, that the banner is in the mail content, so remains when replying
16:14:37  <andythenorth> standard malware attack?
16:14:48  <andythenorth> or 'please recall all emails' scenario?
16:15:12  <frosch123> so all customer-facing people who communicate externally all day, spend all day deleting the red banner from the customer mails when replying
16:15:28  <frosch123> just to not show the customer that they may not be trusted :)
16:15:49  * andythenorth would not have guessed that one
16:16:54  <TrueBrain> Hahaha :D Classic issues :)
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16:59:14  <TrueBrain> mediawiki suggests <center> is a block element
17:01:24  <TrueBrain> as it is not HTML5, more difficult to find that in the specs :)
17:01:49  <TrueBrain> it is a block element
17:01:50  <TrueBrain> funny
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17:08:13  <frosch123> what else would it be?
17:08:22  <TrueBrain> like <b>
17:08:33  <TrueBrain> I guess
17:08:34  <TrueBrain> it makes sense
17:08:40  <TrueBrain> was just difficult to find the answer :)
17:14:48  <TrueBrain> okay, automated diffing is not going to happen .. too many small differences which really are completely okay
17:14:53  <TrueBrain> stuff like: different order of attributes
17:14:54  <TrueBrain> etc
17:16:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] LordAro approved pull request #47: Change: Some minor layout and css improvements
17:18:24  <TrueBrain> frosch123: if I can help with the exporter, let me know :) Otherwise I will make a start with some editing
17:26:52  <TrueBrain> ah, no, I first have to write code to not use eval() :D
17:30:37  <andythenorth> should I not use eval() any more?
17:30:44  <TrueBrain> ....
17:30:47  <andythenorth> I eval the newgrf translation strings
17:30:47  <TrueBrain> go sit in a corner now
17:30:50  <andythenorth> that's ok right?
17:38:07  * LordAro sends andythenorth to the naughty step
17:41:48  <TrueBrain> "centre" instead of "center" .. lol
17:41:56  <TrueBrain> mediawiki really accepts everything, just silently hides any errors
17:42:20  <LordAro> the browser of the wiki world
17:42:36  <TrueBrain> I think that in edit-mode it should show any/all warnings a page has
17:42:46  <TrueBrain> hiding it from the end-result, sure .. but while editing, it should show it
17:43:11  <TrueBrain> 2020-10-15 19:42:35 ERROR    [Main/en/Fallout Newkton] Upload does not exist: File:en/.<div class="thumb tright"><div class="thumbinner">Image not found<div class="thumbcaption"><div class="magnify"><a href="/File:en/Scn-fallout-newkton-map.png" class="internal" title="Enlarge">🔍</a></div>Newkton Minimap</div>
17:43:18  <TrueBrain> I think it is plausible that it cannot find that upload :P
17:43:28  <LordAro> difficult to do with just a text box
17:43:45  <TrueBrain> I was thinking about a banner above the text box
17:44:03  <LordAro> more doable in visual-editor mode, of course
17:44:20  <TrueBrain> doing it in-place is hard; as that requires a lot of bookkeeping to know the exact location
17:44:40  <TrueBrain> and the way the page is rendered, that is really difficult to keep track of
17:44:45  <TrueBrain> pretty sure that is not worth it :)
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17:46:37  <TrueBrain> so often I see that in a template there is [[Image:{{{1}}}]], and the caller does {{Template|[[Image:myimage.png]]}}
17:46:43  <TrueBrain> in other words .. it tries to render an image of an image
17:46:47  <TrueBrain> for SOME REASON that fails :P
17:46:49  <TrueBrain> I know, SHOCKING
17:47:09  <LordAro> i am shocked
17:52:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:52:02  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
17:55:32  <andythenorth> I am appalled
17:55:36  <andythenorth> shocked doesn't cover it
18:00:13  <TrueBrain> <- for those that might be curious how easy this was :)
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18:54:40  <TrueBrain> LordAro: something that you will enjoy, but it seems we can just use the WYSIWYG editor from mediawiki :P
18:54:58  <LordAro> ooh
18:55:23  <TrueBrain> the default one comes with A LOT of bells and whistles
18:55:27  <TrueBrain> we might want to slim it down
18:55:28  <TrueBrain> as .. wtf
18:55:52  <TrueBrain> but the complex conversion of mediawiki to html and back, is in a single plugin
18:55:52  <LordAro> heh
18:56:01  <TrueBrain>
18:56:03  <TrueBrain> it is a long plugin :D
18:56:29  <TrueBrain> and if we fake the API, it doesn't even require a change
18:58:58  <TrueBrain> not for version v1 anyway, but I don't really see an issue implementing something like that
19:00:54  <TrueBrain> so, plan for this weekend: make a lib out of this renderer, make it able to collect errors, and decouple it from the filesystem (so you have to implement a few functions as user of the lib to load templates and pages etc) .. after that we can make a mini-wiki-server, and start working on the editing part :D
19:01:09  <TrueBrain> and I guess frosch123 needs to make a nice plan for the layout for OpenTTD :D
19:01:12  <TrueBrain> :D :D :D
19:01:20  <TrueBrain> still happy with the speed of this ...
19:05:04  <frosch123> do we need a wysiwyg editor? it would be weird if the python rendered and js renderer give different results
19:06:45  <TrueBrain> "need", no, hence not for v1
19:06:54  <TrueBrain> but it also won't be very difficult, by the looks
19:07:22  <TrueBrain> and the rendering is always done by Python; just in the editor you get a bit of a dumb-down version of what it will look, give or take
19:07:32  <TrueBrain> we will have to experiment how close they are, and how annoying it is
19:07:36  <TrueBrain> but, again, not for v1 :)
19:18:26  <frosch123> half of my problems are pages/images which only differ in case :(
19:18:55  <TrueBrain> :( that is annoying
19:19:42  <TrueBrain> I have to fix tables of other languages
19:19:42  <TrueBrain> ... that will be fun too :p
19:20:29  <frosch123> <- what were they thinking
19:20:40  <frosch123> three pictures, two have the same name
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19:50:46  <frosch123> KeyError: 'Right-of-way Merge'  <- never had that one... what could it mean
19:55:33  <frosch123> lol, it's a name of a page... i thought it was some python dict merge thingie
19:56:19  <LordAro> lol, i thought you were being sarcastic
19:57:27  <frosch123> if it had been "AsiaStar", i would have understood it :)
20:03:26  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: just drop all the coop-style stuff. the game is better off without it :p
20:05:20  <frosch123> there is no point in deleting stuff like that. people will readd it over time. it's better to have a proper labeled trashbin, where they happily add it themself to
20:05:33  <frosch123> that way the rest is kept clean
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21:01:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8328: Make openttd reproducible by not embedding timestamps in gzip
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21:20:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #8322: Fix #8313: Correct capitalization on baseset filenames
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23:02:41  <rptr_> man i feel slow. can't code
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