Log for #openttd on 16th October 2020:
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07:11:57  <andythenorth> yo
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07:17:12  <rptr_> hi
07:17:19  <rptr_> andythenorth, how is your train pack
07:17:40  <andythenorth> it's a bit sleepy
07:17:44  <andythenorth> and should exercise more
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10:37:39  <andythenorth> hmm
10:37:45  <andythenorth> I should use more engines on my steel trains
10:37:53  <andythenorth> steel is much heavier than coal or grain
10:37:54  <andythenorth> per ton
10:42:22  <FLHerne> wait what
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13:34:58  <rptr_> any way to prevent exception stack traces if i catch an exception ?(ai)
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13:38:04  <LordAro> rptr_: alas no
13:52:59  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't a stack trace mean you DIDN'T catch the exception?
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14:05:51  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: nope
14:06:19  <LordAro> choochoo is the age old example of this
14:06:41  <LordAro> throws (and catches) exceptions all over the place, and fills the console
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14:12:01  <Eddi|zuHause> that seems like a misplaced debuglevel
14:24:45  <LordAro> could be
14:25:00  <LordAro> the only thing i remember about it was pm telling someone else that it wasn't possible to make go away
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14:45:53  <Eddi|zuHause> nah... the impossible just takes a bit longer :)
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15:00:23  <rptr_> i would like to add it as a feature, LordAro, would be really useful
15:00:37  <rptr_> sort of like Java i guess. exception.printStackTrace, or if it is caught at the top level, print it automatically
15:01:01  <rptr_> i am coding a simple AI again, and i like using exceptions for some error handling
15:01:23  <rptr_> surely it could be fixed
15:06:17  <LordAro> probably
15:06:22  <LordAro> i've no idea where it's coming from
15:06:32  <LordAro> could be deep within the squirrel library for all i know
15:10:07  <rptr_> it also gives "no error specified" or some crap like that. may just be that i am not creating correct exception classes
15:10:48  <rptr_> it does terminate the script if the exception is not caught, but if it is the trace is still printed. so i guess it is in squirrel
15:23:43  <rptr_> compiled squirrel just now, running a tiny test program: try{throw 1;} catch(e){print("gotcha");}  // prints "gotcha"
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16:05:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #56: [de_DE] Translator access request
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17:07:16  <Wolf01> So, HTC Vive Pro or Cosmos?
17:08:02  <supermop_Home_> hi Wolf01
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17:14:11  <Wolf01> Oh, today I could have started my 2 weeks trip to Japan... if it wasn't for this virus
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17:29:05  <supermop_Home_> I too was supposed to be in japan this autumn
17:51:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:51:49  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:38:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta opened pull request #8329: Build AppImage
18:51:08  <frosch123> does anyone know the implications of importing a gpl-3 python library?
18:54:36  <TrueBrain> .... which library is GPLv3?
18:54:44  <TrueBrain> that is such a stupid idea ..
18:54:53  <TrueBrain> for OpenTTD the implications are very low .. as we are too GPLv3 :P
18:55:02  <milek7_> Wolf01: or valve index?
18:55:03  <TrueBrain> reminds me .. I have to change the license of openttd-helpers :D
18:55:04  <frosch123> TrueBrain: the library you contributed to this week
18:55:11  <TrueBrain> it is? Darn ... I will have to ask him :P
18:56:04  <TrueBrain> for OpenTTD this really is not an issue, but it is not that great
18:56:08  <frosch123> so, i wonder whether truewiki also has to be gpl-3. or whether python does not count as "linking"
18:56:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta updated pull request #8329: Build AppImage
18:56:37  <TrueBrain> it does, and it does have to be GPLv3
18:56:42  <TrueBrain> owh, we normally do GPLv2
18:56:43  <TrueBrain> hmm
18:56:47  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is a bit of an issue
18:57:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta updated pull request #8329: Build AppImage
18:57:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta updated pull request #8329: Build AppImage
18:57:53  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i thought we were gpl-2?
18:58:01  <azubieta> sorry for the spam :(
18:58:12  <Wolf01> <milek7_> Wolf01: or valve index? < I prefer not being tied to a specific platform
18:59:35  <milek7_> isn't vive based on steamvr too?
18:59:40  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I ... just said that
18:59:50  <TrueBrain> always read to the end of the conversation before commenting :P :P
19:00:03  <LordAro> TrueBrain: bleh :p
19:00:26  <LordAro> azubieta: 3 updates isn't spam, don't worry :p
19:00:44  <azubieta> I'm dealing with the commit checker
19:01:00  <LordAro> azubieta: reasonably sure it's not something that should run on push/pr though
19:01:24  <LordAro> should run on release/nightly... which hasn't been converted to GH actions yet
19:01:57  <FLHerne> LordAro: Well, it would make testing the PRs easier :p
19:01:59  <TrueBrain> frosch123: <- think I build up enough credits with him to ask this
19:02:22  <FLHerne> And it's Microsoft's CPU time...
19:03:19  <azubieta> :D
19:04:29  <azubieta> The AppImage is ready in case someone wants to give it a try
19:04:51  <azubieta> it's built from sources with audio working
19:10:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #8329: Build AppImage
19:10:22  <glx> azubieta: <-- commit checker gives details ;)
19:11:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta updated pull request #8329: Build AppImage
19:12:18  <azubieta> one more time
19:12:59  <azubieta> Hurrah, the checker is happy now :)
19:13:44  <azubieta> the build should also pass, please take a look at it. I'll be around in case you have comments or questions.
19:14:51  <TrueBrain> LordAro: well, it is a start for the release pipeline, I guess ^^ :)
19:15:07  <LordAro> well indeed
19:15:52  <TrueBrain> turns out 45 users have an annoying banner when visiting our wiki .. some bug in the system doesn't reset when you visit your talk page .. and it keeps telling you the talk page changed :P
19:16:31  <glx> probably not as annoying as the banner on wikipedia
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19:20:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain opened pull request #6: Change: relicense under LGPLv2
19:20:26  <TrueBrain> frosch123: fixed the issue in our own library too ^^ :D
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19:20:47  <TrueBrain> really completely forgot this is an issue with GPL :)
19:21:56  <TrueBrain> trailing whitespaces error .. lol
19:22:07  <frosch123> i get a yearly invitation to a 45 minutes training class about that :p
19:23:01  <TrueBrain> I could use that too, it seems :D
19:23:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain updated pull request #6: Change: relicense under LGPLv2
19:23:24  <frosch123> ok, it's not about licenses, it's more about "ask legal before visiting the toilet"
19:23:43  <TrueBrain> :D
19:23:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta commented on pull request #8329: Build AppImage
19:24:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta commented on pull request #8329: Build AppImage
19:24:58  <TrueBrain> the main discussion here is, is a Python library "linking"
19:25:02  <TrueBrain> but okay ..
19:25:12  <TrueBrain> Python doesn't link at all :P
19:25:18  <azubieta> do you want me to remove all the introductory comments on the github workflow ?
19:25:36  <FLHerne> azubieta: The ones that are true seem useful :-)
19:25:49  <azubieta> ok
19:26:28  <FLHerne> I don't think it matters either way really
19:27:01  <FLHerne> Things like "# The type of runner that the job will run on" -> "runs-on: ubuntu-20.04" are a bit pointless
19:27:24  <azubieta> I had to patch the timidity conf file to make it work properly that's why I'm running appimage-builder twice. That should be fixed in future appimage-builder versions.
19:28:12  <azubieta> Ok, I'll remove them to avoid giving false information
19:28:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta updated pull request #8329: Build AppImage
19:29:04  <azubieta> done
19:29:06  <FLHerne> I mean, that one's not false, it's just kind of self-explanatory without it
19:29:25  <FLHerne> I suppose there's a risk of them becoming false if someone forgets to change them
19:29:54  <LordAro> azubieta: a comment about why appimage-builder is being run twice (with a link to an issue?) would be iseful
19:29:55  <TrueBrain> anyone mind giving a quick approval so I can release a new version? :D
19:30:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] LordAro approved pull request #6: Change: relicense under LGPLv2
19:30:49  <TrueBrain> ty kind :)
19:30:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain merged pull request #6: Change: relicense under LGPLv2
19:30:56  <LordAro> i aim to please
19:31:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/py-helpers] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.1
19:33:27  <azubieta> it's not a problem, just a missing feature
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19:34:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain merged pull request #47: Change: Some minor layout and css improvements
19:35:38  <LordAro> azubieta: exactly, so link to that
19:35:56  <LordAro> so someone can work out in future if the workaround is still required
19:36:01  <azubieta> do you want the comment to be part of the commit or just in the PR ?
19:36:10  <LordAro> in the commit
19:36:14  <azubieta> ok
19:36:21  <glx> comment in the workflow yes
19:40:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta updated pull request #8329: Build AppImage
19:40:49  <azubieta> LordAro
19:44:01  <TrueBrain> why that sudo there? :P
19:46:12  <azubieta> the bundle is built inside docker and it get root permissions on the outside, that's why we need sudo
19:48:50  <TrueBrain> it is weird anyway that you need to patch something outside of appimage .. doesn't that defeat a bit the purpose of an "appimage.yml"?
19:48:57  <TrueBrain> you would think you can patch stuff there, not?
19:49:13  <TrueBrain> so if someone does a git clone, and builds the appimage himself, it doesn't work the same way
19:49:16  <TrueBrain> feels a bit meh
19:51:31  <azubieta> I'm working on that, I'm the maintainer of the appmage-builder project
19:51:53  <azubieta> I wonder what was I thinking that didn't included it from the first time
19:52:14  <TrueBrain> honestly, and don't take this the wrong way, I wonder if it would be a good idea to accept this PR at this stage
19:52:24  <TrueBrain> as these kind of small things will lead to confusion with people
19:53:36  <azubieta> Well the recipe (AFAIK) produces good AppImages so you will be able to have nightly builds that run on every GNU/Linux distribution right now
19:54:07  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD itself is far from using GH to release nightlies atm, so this sadly doesn't help for that at this moment in time :)
19:54:17  <rptr_> oh man. came back after an hour or so and i had gone into negative. poor network was constipated completely
19:54:38  <glx> yeah releases are still on the azure side
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19:55:05  <TrueBrain> hopefully someone ports that soon, but time is always a relative thing :D
19:55:08  <glx> we moved CI to github to ease reviewing
19:55:21  <TrueBrain> no, to avoid it stop working on the 1st of November glx :)
19:55:28  <glx> that too ;)
19:55:28  <TrueBrain> pretty sure otherwise it still wouldn't have happened :P
19:55:41  <TrueBrain> deadlines tend to do the weirdest things :D
19:55:58  <glx> but having the errors directly visible in the PR is a good benefit :)
19:56:18  <TrueBrain> not doubting that; I was referring to the timeline :D
19:56:37  <azubieta> well you can use AppImage for testing PR too
19:56:51  <azubieta> testing a* PR
19:56:53  <TrueBrain> what benefit does that introduce?
19:57:21  <glx> how you mean providing artifacts for all CI builds ?
19:57:23  <azubieta> you can download the produced binary without having to build it locally
19:57:28  <TrueBrain> other question, when I land on AppImage, I find this to create AppImages:
19:57:30  <azubieta> yes
19:57:40  <TrueBrain> which uses this as YML:
19:57:50  <TrueBrain> why are there more than one way of defining how it should be build?
19:58:41  <TrueBrain> (where the URL I just gave seems to be the "official" approach?)
20:01:29  <azubieta> While both tools use deb packages to fulfill the application dependencies, they produce different bundles. with pk2appimage you need to use the oldest still supported distribution to make a forward compatible bundle. appimage-builder is a new tool/approach that bundles glibc and other tricks to allow producing the AppImages in newer system but also
20:01:29  <azubieta>  to patch fixed paths at runtime (this feature is unique to appimage-builder) which allows, by example, to run the embed timidity server
20:02:10  <TrueBrain> good answer, just not to the question I asked :D Why are the YML formats differ, while they contain mostly the same content?
20:02:14  <TrueBrain> feels confusing?
20:03:25  <azubieta> well, it wasn't meant to be compatible from the beginning. The pkg2appimage doesn't have the "runtime concept"
20:04:19  <azubieta> in the case of AppImage there is no one tool to make them all, there are tools that work better for certain scenarios (applications)
20:04:36  <TrueBrain> sadly, they have this repositories under their organization as second entry :D
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20:04:40  <TrueBrain> understand that it is confusing ;)
20:05:17  <TrueBrain> anyway, adding AppImages to PRs has very limited value for OpenTTD, as most people who would want to download that, will be Windows users, I am afraid :D
20:05:31  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: We have an OpenTTD/nml repo, but you're still allowed to use m4nfo :p
20:05:45  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: but the SPEC format is the same :)
20:05:52  <TrueBrain> I was not arguing the tools ;)
20:06:06  <FLHerne> The appimage-building tools are tools
20:06:19  <azubieta> indeed, the AppImage project is maintained by probonod, he has the last word on what goes in the organization. Also he decided to keep not only appimage-builder but also linuxdeploy and linuxdeployqt as external projects
20:06:19  <TrueBrain> yes ........ again ..... not talking about the tools :)
20:06:32  <TrueBrain> not sure where you lost me FLHerne , but I keep talking about the YML file that defines how to build :)
20:06:35  <TrueBrain> not the tool building it :)
20:07:03  * azubieta bbl lunch time
20:07:18  <TrueBrain> azubieta: meh; that is a bit sad :) Only pollutes; but not something you can help :)
20:07:43  <TrueBrain> possibly it is a good idea to name "appimage.yml" to "appimage-builder.yml" in that case
20:07:48  <TrueBrain> just to create a bit of separation there
20:07:54  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: They build in completely different ways, so of course the build instructions aren't the same
20:07:54  <azubieta> ok
20:08:12  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: it is not "of course"; if you checked the formats, you would see they are very similar
20:08:22  <TrueBrain> and you can argue all you want, but clearly this is not obvious to the outsider
20:08:26  <TrueBrain> so not sure what you are aiming at :)
20:08:37  <TrueBrain> google for "appimage yml", and you find the pkg2appimage repo
20:08:39  <TrueBrain> with a YML spec
20:09:08  <glx> yes content looks very similar, except the syntax
20:09:28  <TrueBrain> ingredients -> apt, and you are there, I think :P
20:09:31  <glx> maybe the builder could use an extended version of the standard
20:09:41  <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, I expected something like that, tbh :)
20:09:52  <TrueBrain> but if they are really 2 different projects, it is fine; just unclear from the outside
20:10:02  <TrueBrain> inside the yml is also no indication for what project it builds
20:10:18  <TrueBrain> bit like you see only a "requirements.txt" .. good luck understanding that :D
20:11:17  <glx> I would default to python (without looking at the other files around this "requirements.txt")
20:11:34  <TrueBrain> annyyywwaaayy, more to the point about this PR: adding an AppImage any user can download on any PR might not be wise; the last time we talked about something similar, we came to the conclusion it should only happen when a developer says: OK
20:11:43  <TrueBrain> to prevent people making malware PRs, misleading people into downloading it
20:11:46  <glx> but it's probably easy to tell with context for this txt file :)
20:11:57  <TrueBrain> glx: but it requires you to know pip :)
20:12:05  <TrueBrain> if you never heard of pip .. good luck finding out what the fuck is going on :P
20:12:20  <TrueBrain> as the example here .. I just did: google, appimage yml, show me what you got :)
20:12:25  <TrueBrain> did not end well for me :P
20:12:43  <TrueBrain> (again, I don't mean anything bad here; just telling what I see, hoping it helps azubieta out :)
20:13:26  <TrueBrain> anyway, back to what I was saying: this is the reason the CI never published binaries; not because we couldn't, just because we cannot trust a PR :D
20:13:27  <glx> and I agree, producing artifacts should not be enabled by default
20:14:31  <TrueBrain> and just to be perfectly clear: I have nothing against appimage, etc :) Just in case people get confused for some reason :D
20:16:39  <TrueBrain> if I can add one more request, and it depends on the same as patching that file: ideally you also want downloading of opengfx and friends inside the appimage definition file too, I think
20:17:09  <TrueBrain> that makes all references, of course for the real binary of course, self-contained inside a single file
20:17:23  <glx> indeed, would make sense to include that in the "definition" file
20:17:24  <TrueBrain> s/of course for/with the exception of/
20:17:58  <milek7_> about PR testing, maybe building emscripten build would be useful? :P
20:18:18  <TrueBrain> is your PR merged? :)
20:18:59  <milek7_> no
20:19:09  <TrueBrain> so it would always fail? :P
20:19:10  <TrueBrain> :D :D
20:22:51  <rptr_> my client is nagging me but i want to code my AI :(
20:23:01  <rptr_> why can't i be 14 instead
20:24:31  <frosch123> 14? 10 or 16 would be okay. but 14?
20:24:56  <rptr_> why?
20:25:07  <rptr_> at 10 i wouldn't be coding an AI, at 16 maybe
20:28:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8329: Build AppImage
20:29:16  <TrueBrain> milek7_: but it is not a bad idea that, if that PR lands, to also validate emscripten doesn't break, by adding it to the CI. This can, as far as I care, be done in the PR, or in a follow-up PR
20:30:58  <TrueBrain> while writing out my comment, I also noticed the yaml file doesn't have a comment mentioning for what tool it is a definition
20:31:10  <TrueBrain> with all the YAML files already, I started to fancy the ones that do
20:31:37  <TrueBrain> okay, files in .github/workflows is also obvious, but for the other yml files .. it can be a bit unclear
20:31:48  <TrueBrain> guess I should fix all the .dorpsgek.yml tbh :)
20:31:57  <frosch123> do we have a yamf.yaml ?
20:32:25  <TrueBrain> I find it cute Python went for TOML
20:32:30  <TrueBrain> betting on a losing horse is always fun
20:32:56  <TrueBrain> I do like how they made clear for what you are creating a definition
20:33:00  <glx> at least most moved away from xml ;)
20:33:01  <TrueBrain> it is rather verbose
20:33:12  <TrueBrain> owh, yes, the XML fan-boys
20:33:23  <TrueBrain> didn't we had someone on the website repo claiming it was the thing to use?
20:34:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] FLHerne commented on pull request #8329: Build AppImage
20:34:33  <TrueBrain> "Also, implementing a single XML file would be more clean" <- ah, yes, I remember well
20:34:45  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: EVEN better
20:35:17  <TrueBrain> or, if I can shoot for the sky, make it a CPack :)
20:35:21  <TrueBrain> but now I am -really- pushing it
20:36:05  <TrueBrain> make it like :D
20:36:14  <TrueBrain> I love how there is still a TODO there :P
20:36:22  <TrueBrain> pretty sure it doesn't work :D
20:37:30  <TrueBrain> pretty sure our most beloved and has-been-here-for-years Debian maintainer is going to cry a bit when 1.11 rolls out of the shop :P
20:38:01  <azubieta> TrueBrain thanks for the comments, I guess that renaming the yml file to appimage-builder.yml will give a clearer hint of which tool must be used
20:38:20  <TrueBrain> and I honestly would add self-promotion in the yml :)
20:38:37  <TrueBrain> it is a really good way for others to make it easy to find your tool; and only your tool :D
20:38:52  <TrueBrain>
20:38:54  <TrueBrain> as example
20:39:16  <TrueBrain> I like the: we are not telling you were to find us, but here is a link if you want to modify me
20:39:18  <azubieta> good idea, adding it right away
20:40:05  <TrueBrain> I am full of good ideas; sadly, they are often overshadowed by bad ideas :P
20:40:57  <TrueBrain> frosch123: did you read my issue on wikitextparser? The library was build to do minor changes to wikitext, like URL change, template adjustments, etc ... seem I have been .. stretching what it was build for .. and kicking ass while doing so :D
20:41:16  <TrueBrain> (well, not me, the library)
20:41:23  <frosch123> yes, but does that stop you?
20:41:27  <TrueBrain> NEVAH!
20:41:35  <TrueBrain> 30ms vs 800ms ... fuck Ruby
20:41:38  <TrueBrain> it can go sit in a corner now
20:41:47  <TrueBrain> and let the real boys (read: Python) do the work
20:42:37  <TrueBrain> owh, he fixed rowspan .. let me test it :D
20:42:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta updated pull request #8329: Build AppImage
20:44:39  <frosch123> hmm... why is it pushing so much... did i mess up lfs?
20:44:51  <TrueBrain> oh-oh ....... :P
20:45:02  <TrueBrain> LFS should be: enable it, and forget about it
20:45:09  <TrueBrain> but I don't have that much experience with it otherwise
20:45:31  <frosch123> well, i added another folder to it
20:46:43  <TrueBrain> LOOK AT THAT! It renders tables correctly now :D
20:46:44  <TrueBrain> \o/
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20:46:54  <TrueBrain> that makes me really happy
20:46:55  <frosch123> TrueBrain: <- everything is different
20:47:06  <frosch123> very different
20:47:11  <TrueBrain> wow .....
20:47:12  <TrueBrain> intended?
20:47:17  <frosch123> yes :p
20:47:27  <TrueBrain> care to explain the logic? :D
20:47:52  <TrueBrain> (I can guess to a certain extend)
20:48:01  <frosch123> i sorted pages into more subfolders to separate the gold from the rice
20:48:11  <TrueBrain> why not Templates in the language folders too?
20:48:23  <TrueBrain> "Sorry, we had to truncate this directory to 1,000 files. 3,576 entries were omitted from the list."
20:48:24  <TrueBrain> ty GitHub :P
20:48:45  <TrueBrain> what language is "mp" btw?
20:49:23  <TrueBrain> wow, en/Main is empty :D
20:49:28  <TrueBrain> (well, almost empty)
20:49:38  <TrueBrain> you have been busy my friend :)
20:49:55  <frosch123> some languages have typos
20:50:03  <frosch123> mp may be my or ms
20:50:09  <frosch123> some Fr was written Ft
20:50:40  <TrueBrain> lol
20:51:04  <TrueBrain> are all the links also updated with your new folder setup?
20:52:06  <TrueBrain> okay, I get your layout otherwise; forget about my Template question
20:52:17  <TrueBrain> guess my only OCD-related issue is, that there is no root folder for content
20:52:29  <TrueBrain> Category / File / Template / Content?
20:52:30  <TrueBrain> :D
20:52:47  <frosch123> ah, yes, that's something i wanted to ask you
20:52:56  <frosch123> i can do either, but links would not include that top level then
20:53:05  <TrueBrain> no problem
20:53:11  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I think I can see a flaw in your security argument
20:53:23  <TrueBrain> just one? But which did you had in mind :)
20:53:30  <frosch123> TrueBrain: oh, and LICENSE.mediawiki is a weird thing
20:53:33  <rptr_> whoever read AI code: any tip on which AI has the "nicest" building code?
20:53:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] azubieta commented on pull request #8329: Build AppImage
20:53:36  <FLHerne> Namely, that the current PR just built a downloadable AppImage as an artifact
20:53:39  <rptr_> i found the ChooChoo builder code a bit confusing
20:53:40  <frosch123> i want to put it into the top folder, so gh sees it
20:53:50  <frosch123> but then the wiki cannot see it
20:54:11  <TrueBrain> we write the wiki .. we can do anything!
20:54:11  <FLHerne> Thus "people will generate artifacts in malicious PRs" is a moot point, because you can already do it
20:54:21  <FLHerne> You just have to add the workflow in the malicious P
20:54:23  <FLHerne> *PR
20:54:42  <TrueBrain> but we don't promote anyone to download those
20:54:47  <TrueBrain> which is the difference ;)
20:55:02  <TrueBrain> it is never about someone not able to mislead people
20:55:06  <TrueBrain> it is about what we promote
20:55:15  <TrueBrain> as someone can just compile what-ever and link it in the PR body
20:55:17  <TrueBrain> I mean .. :P
20:56:31  <TrueBrain> sadly, GitHub doesn't allow you to restrict the things as I would, with a Security Officer hat on, but what can you do ..
20:57:11  <frosch123> TrueBrain: btw. i used wikitextparser to replace links/templates this time :)
20:57:27  <frosch123> i did not check many pages. but hopefully it has less artefacts
20:57:55  <frosch123> also, i am not here tomorrow. so you have to live with this till sunday :p
20:58:03  <TrueBrain> :D
20:58:23  <TrueBrain> I will move folders around myself, but this is already really awesome :)
20:59:02  <TrueBrain> btw FLHerne , I suspect GitHub is going to change this sooner or later, that it runs the workflow of the PR, and not of the target branch (which is silly in my opinion that it does this) .. as I am still waiting for the attack where people make a lot of PRs in many projects which start a coinminer
20:59:05  <frosch123> ah, i also reexported from the real wiki this afternoon. so it has all your template fixes
20:59:19  <TrueBrain> \o/
20:59:22  <TrueBrain> that makes me really happy!
20:59:31  <TrueBrain> you have been really busy :D
21:00:02  <frosch123> it was less work than expected
21:01:06  <TrueBrain> you removed the python files to render categories and translations?
21:01:14  <frosch123> separate the english pages from the rest via script, separate baseset vehicles (seriously, how many page?), separate xyz.... put linked translations into the same categories :)
21:01:20  <TrueBrain> are those files still up-to-date, or is it an updated folder?
21:01:54  <TrueBrain> updated .. outdated ...
21:01:55  <TrueBrain> typing HARD
21:02:03  <frosch123> is in the other repo
21:02:11  <TrueBrain> owh, of course, DUHHHH
21:02:12  <TrueBrain> sorry :)
21:02:42  <TrueBrain> well ... I am scared to load it, but let me try this real quick ..
21:02:43  <andythenorth> oof I looked away and loads of chat happened
21:02:53  <andythenorth> I was only playing tanks for a few...minutes
21:02:53  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: please, don't look away again
21:02:57  <TrueBrain> it was HORRIBLE
21:02:58  <andythenorth> about 480 minutes
21:03:03  <TrueBrain> this TrueBrain kept talking and talking
21:03:09  <TrueBrain> like .. does he NEVER shut up?
21:03:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: you can have the next shift of talking, if you want
21:03:37  <andythenorth> tanks
21:03:42  <andythenorth> tanks
21:03:46  <andythenorth> tanks
21:03:56  <TrueBrain> @kick andythenorth no more tanks!
21:03:56  *** andythenorth was kicked by DorpsGek (no more tanks!)
21:04:04  <frosch123> do we still have these stats? "andy talked 15 lines in a row with no interaction"?
21:04:11  <TrueBrain> dammit, 1001 kicks ...
21:04:42  <LordAro> TrueBrain: you ruined it!
21:04:49  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
21:04:52  <andythenorth> won my bet
21:04:58  <TrueBrain> LordAro: yes .. and it feels really shitty tbh
21:04:58  <andythenorth> I thought 2 wouldn't be a kick, and 3 would
21:05:01  <TrueBrain> it was in the moment :P
21:05:39  <frosch123> TrueBrain: that is more than 1 kick per week over the channel history
21:05:53  <TrueBrain> it was stats starting from 2009, I think
21:06:01  <TrueBrain> @calc 11 * 52
21:06:01  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 572
21:06:06  <TrueBrain> EVEN WORSE :P
21:06:20  <TrueBrain> did not realise that number yet :D
21:06:24  <TrueBrain> but andythenorth ruined it
21:06:26  <TrueBrain> so .. yeah .. that ...
21:07:16  <TrueBrain> hmm .. "File" folder .. what do I think about that ..
21:07:30  <TrueBrain> there is also File: syntax in mediawiki, to get the metadata of a file
21:07:43  <frosch123> i deleted those :)
21:07:51  <TrueBrain> I render those :P
21:08:05  <TrueBrain> but you don't want to allow overwriting images, I guess?
21:08:14  <frosch123> shall i revert to uploads? i thought File was easier for you
21:08:21  <TrueBrain> nah, I like File
21:08:25  <TrueBrain> it is more clear
21:08:37  <TrueBrain> I was more wondering how we want to do the links
21:08:46  <frosch123> TrueBrain: overwriting images is important
21:08:59  <frosch123> otherwise people make a mess with "image 1", "image 2"
21:09:03  <TrueBrain> okay, so we will have /File/ for files, and /File: for metadata :)
21:09:10  <TrueBrain> of /FileMeta ?
21:09:14  <TrueBrain> dunno .. we figure something out :)
21:09:35  <frosch123> if you want the File: metadata pages, i'll rather add "uploads" again
21:10:00  <TrueBrain> well, it is about: what do we see in the GitHub repo vs what are the URLs
21:10:11  <TrueBrain> I like the File folder, as that is what you read in the mediawiki files
21:10:20  <TrueBrain> I can still name the URL "uploads" :)
21:10:46  <frosch123> i can't follow
21:10:56  <TrueBrain> how things are called on disk, doesn't have to be how it is called in the URL
21:11:01  <frosch123> i configured lfs to track a directory
21:11:08  <frosch123> so if you want file metadata, we need two directories
21:11:17  <TrueBrain> owh, metadata is: history
21:11:19  <TrueBrain> so git log
21:11:21  <TrueBrain> right?
21:11:33  <TrueBrain> that is what I meant, tbh :P
21:11:39  <TrueBrain> now I understand the misunderstanding :D
21:11:46  <frosch123> TrueBrain: <- i thought you meant these
21:11:57  <TrueBrain> wtf is that :o
21:12:08  <frosch123> every uploaded file has a wikipage
21:12:13  <TrueBrain> ..... omg
21:12:14  <frosch123> which describes the file textually
21:12:25  <frosch123> it's important for the real wikipedia, because it states license and stuff
21:12:27  <TrueBrain> <- I meant that
21:12:38  <TrueBrain> well, that is the same
21:12:41  <TrueBrain> but that from git log
21:12:54  <TrueBrain> I did not know you could translate it etc
21:12:59  <TrueBrain> holy bonsai
21:13:20  <TrueBrain> so yeah, I am going to ignore this for now; something we can talk about sunday :P
21:14:21  <TrueBrain> frosch123: is "AI:" gone? :D
21:14:36  <TrueBrain> IT IS! I am your biggest fan :D
21:14:48  <TrueBrain> no more pages with a : in them
21:14:49  <TrueBrain> w00p
21:15:02  <frosch123> yay, lucky me :) i added code to remove it, but did not check the result :)
21:16:22  <TrueBrain> something went wrong with the translations :D
21:16:23  <TrueBrain> hihi
21:16:37  <TrueBrain> they all say MAIN
21:16:37  <TrueBrain> :D
21:17:04  <frosch123> oh, so i need to change the script
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21:17:18  <TrueBrain> <- lot of red text, but it loads the first page at least :)
21:17:28  <TrueBrain> FR and PL do work
21:17:30  <TrueBrain> odly enough :P
21:17:37  <frosch123> ah "uploads/"
21:18:25  <TrueBrain> it is still named "uploads/"
21:18:30  <TrueBrain> the languages are just all called MAIN
21:18:50  <TrueBrain> <img src="/uploads/Main/Flag.png"/><br/>MAIN</a></div>
21:19:24  <TrueBrain> but I will change that tomorrow into a mediawiki template I think
21:19:29  <TrueBrain> bit easier
21:19:52  <TrueBrain> <- translations acting up :D
21:20:08  <frosch123> TrueBrain: are you aware how categories work?
21:20:22  <TrueBrain> haven't looked into them
21:20:25  <TrueBrain> I am scared of them
21:20:52  <frosch123> because "translations" as templates adds more problems than it solves :) i tried it
21:21:01  <TrueBrain> no no, not what I meant
21:21:05  <TrueBrain> you now render them as HTML
21:21:12  <TrueBrain> I am going to change that into rendering as wikitext, I think
21:21:17  <TrueBrain> so it uses [[File:]] for images
21:21:55  <TrueBrain> hmm .. "Gameplay Manual" link is pointing to /en/, not /en/OpenTTD
21:22:09  <frosch123> TrueBrain: btw. what do you think about showing all files of the current directory in some panel on the left?
21:22:36  <frosch123> it would remove the need for many categories, if people could just browse directories
21:22:48  <TrueBrain> we will have to experiment a bit with that, I think
21:23:00  <frosch123> previously pages had categories "manual" and "scenario", but those are folders now
21:23:20  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
21:23:25  <TrueBrain> <- any idea why this page was wrongly linked from "Main Page"?
21:23:43  <TrueBrain> even on that page it is wrongly linked
21:24:52  <frosch123> oh right. there's another file i wanted to share
21:25:11  <TrueBrain> I like this folder structure a lot
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21:31:32  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i think i fixed the .translation
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21:32:01  <frosch123> also i added and
21:32:11  <frosch123> which will be handy if you want to compare old wiki vs new wiki
21:32:24  <TrueBrain> nice!
21:32:32  <TrueBrain> can you also share you latest index.php (via gist if you like)?
21:32:51  <frosch123> php? what do you think of me?
21:33:33  <TrueBrain> ..... ooooopppsss
21:33:36  <TrueBrain> I AM SO SORRY
21:33:38  <TrueBrain> SO SO SORRY :(
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21:33:51  <TrueBrain> I like the language "Trash" we now have :)
21:34:07  <frosch123> :)
21:34:15  <TrueBrain> (no, the .translation is still not completely correct :P)
21:34:23  <frosch123> those are pages i will check on sunday, whether i sorted them correctly, then delete them
21:34:33  <rptr_> is there a "go to tile index" feature? :)
21:34:35  <frosch123> TrueBrain:
21:34:40  <TrueBrain> ty kind!
21:34:43  <frosch123> rptr_: yes, console "scrollto"
21:35:04  <rptr_> yay
21:35:06  <rptr_> <3
21:35:18  <TrueBrain> <- still not looking good
21:35:19  <frosch123> TrueBrain: funnily that script becomes easier again, if we add a "Pages/" or similar :)
21:35:30  <TrueBrain> Pages, that is the better word
21:35:35  <TrueBrain> well, locally I already have that, tbh :P
21:36:26  <frosch123> TrueBrain: did you pull?
21:36:31  <frosch123> or did i not push?
21:37:07  <TrueBrain> I might have been stupid, let me check :D
21:37:14  <frosch123> <- that looks good to me
21:37:31  <TrueBrain> no, this was me :P
21:37:37  <frosch123> except the usual suspects Fr and Pl
21:37:57  <frosch123> not sure whether they just translated the most pages, or whether they just messed up more :)
21:38:49  <TrueBrain> owh, you renamed it to /File
21:38:53  <TrueBrain> we really need this to be wikitext :D
21:39:01  <frosch123> :p
21:40:02  <TrueBrain> does not contain your latest fixes
21:40:07  <TrueBrain> I was wondering why if I run it it was broken again
21:40:11  <TrueBrain> it was not completely me \o/ :D
21:40:59  <frosch123> try again :)
21:42:19  <frosch123> ah.. i see why the link to "OpenTTD" is broken :)
21:42:30  <frosch123> it's because that's also a namespace name
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21:44:51  <TrueBrain>
21:44:53  <TrueBrain> looks a bit better
21:44:57  <TrueBrain> but some languages are in there twice :P
21:45:04  <TrueBrain> well, not something for tonight to figure out :)
21:45:12  <frosch123> yes, that's when the translators did not properly link them
21:45:25  <frosch123> it's kind of intentional, so you can see their bugs
21:45:36  <TrueBrain> <- not sure yet why there are two language thingies there
21:45:40  <TrueBrain> and a lot of broken links ..
21:46:19  <TrueBrain> hmm .. my detection clearly is broken
21:46:38  <TrueBrain> there we go, a lot better
21:47:03  <TrueBrain> "en" is no longer first language :P
21:47:19  <TrueBrain> now it is :)
21:48:26  <TrueBrain> [[Translation:Template/en/Table of contents]] <- inside "Table of contents" template
21:48:29  <TrueBrain> which is used on many pages :P
21:48:39  <TrueBrain> should templates have that marker?
21:50:23  <frosch123> i pushed some link fixes
21:50:43  <TrueBrain> can you also move all languages into Pages folder?
21:50:53  <TrueBrain> (otherwise I keep fixing that locally :D)
21:52:01  <frosch123> plural or singual?
21:52:04  <frosch123> singular
21:52:11  <TrueBrain> sure
21:53:23  <rptr_> which way is north? -Y?
21:53:37  <TrueBrain> andy left, I am lost :(
21:54:03  <frosch123> rptr_:
21:54:15  <frosch123> i know a lot of wiki pages suddenly :p
21:54:22  <TrueBrain> haha :D
21:54:51  <rptr_> pft
21:55:07  <rptr_> well that makes sense
21:55:37  <rptr_> ok, buildrail makes sense now
21:56:19  <rptr_> beautiful roundabout :D
21:57:52  <TrueBrain> frosch123: but am I right to assume the [[Translation]] tag in Templates is a mistake, or is that really useful?
21:58:27  <frosch123> translators put them there
21:58:32  <frosch123> but we can delete them :)
21:59:00  <TrueBrain> cool :)
21:59:08  <frosch123> TrueBrain: ah, i guess they were inside <noinclude> before, and i broke that
21:59:09  <TrueBrain>
21:59:15  <TrueBrain> that looks pretty good
21:59:29  <frosch123> __TOC__ :)
21:59:48  <frosch123> i think i'll add the Page/ on sunday
21:59:52  <TrueBrain>
22:00:02  <TrueBrain> they did put it in noinclude :)
22:00:16  <TrueBrain> still no clue what the added value is of having it at all
22:00:55  <frosch123> it translates the subtitles?
22:01:17  <frosch123> "Infrastructure" -> "Constructies"
22:01:53  <TrueBrain> well, translated templates is fine, but why the lookup table on top
22:02:11  <TrueBrain> to bundle them
22:02:14  <TrueBrain> meh, I guess, sure, why not
22:02:19  <TrueBrain> I will filter them out on my end
22:02:44  <TrueBrain> there
22:03:43  <TrueBrain> still some errors, but seemly on my end :)
22:03:49  <TrueBrain> "Template Template/en/table of contents not found"
22:03:55  <TrueBrain> pretty sure I saw it
22:04:00  <TrueBrain> might be casing error
22:04:28  <TrueBrain> it is
22:04:36  <TrueBrain> okay, I will go through my issue tomorrow, update what is fixed
22:04:41  <TrueBrain> and leave what is left :)
22:04:50  <TrueBrain> but this update is already a huge improvement :)
22:05:58  <frosch123> <- i still need to convert the Tabs template
22:06:03  <TrueBrain> most "page not found" errors I see are because of missing category in URL
22:06:09  <frosch123> all templates which have pagenames are parameters need special handling
22:06:56  <TrueBrain>
22:07:00  <TrueBrain> :D
22:07:27  <TrueBrain> there is no "Mac.mediawiki" in export :(
22:07:48  <TrueBrain> wait, it doesn't exist in the wiki at all
22:07:49  <frosch123> i think that's already in my trash list
22:08:00  <TrueBrain> ./Page/en/Archive/Other/Troubleshooting/Windows.mediawiki
22:08:01  <TrueBrain> is
22:08:06  <frosch123> shall i also upload the list of trashed pages?
22:08:24  <TrueBrain> sure
22:08:44  <TrueBrain> ah, the Windows page is a redirect
22:08:50  <TrueBrain> those are still an issue :P
22:09:17  <TrueBrain> guess we could do with something like "Windows.redirect", with in there the URL to redirect to, or something
22:09:28  <TrueBrain> no, for history it is better if it is called .mediawiki
22:09:34  <TrueBrain> owh well, not the most important thing tbfh
22:10:07  <frosch123> <- it contains awesome stuff like "index.php"
22:10:13  <frosch123> all real pages on the wiki :)
22:10:35  <TrueBrain> rriiiggggghhhhtttttt
22:11:07  <TrueBrain> okay, tomorrow I am going to make this more in a library, but also add a "pedantic mediawiki" mode
22:11:14  <TrueBrain> I didn't want to do it, but I am
22:11:17  <frosch123> <- the second one in the list is my favorite
22:11:23  <TrueBrain> as that makes it a lot easier to confirm everything works a-okay
22:11:45  <TrueBrain> so much crap .....
22:11:50  <frosch123> <- someone was upset they were not allowe dto upload scenarios, so they uploaed a 64encoded text :)
22:12:20  <TrueBrain> I noticed it yesterday in the export
22:12:28  <TrueBrain> made my script do weird shit :D
22:12:59  <TrueBrain> anyway, good improvements all around
22:13:05  <TrueBrain> I think we can bring this to the finishline tbh
22:13:17  <TrueBrain> I don't really see any blockers .. just some challenges
22:13:24  <TrueBrain> like, what to do with file history / "translations"
22:13:48  <TrueBrain> but first, time to get some zzzzzzzz
22:13:57  <frosch123> yep :)
22:14:00  <frosch123> see you sunday
22:14:17  <TrueBrain> ciao
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22:28:29  <rptr_> can i evalute scripts in console?
22:28:31  <rptr_> evalute
22:28:33  <rptr_> evaluate!
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