Log for #openttd on 22nd October 2020:
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11:53:56  <TrueBrain> lol .. &sigma; and &Sigma; are two different entities
11:53:57  <TrueBrain> never knew
12:04:13  <planetmaker> a and A :) s and S :)
12:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, yes. capitals
12:12:37  <TrueBrain> TIL, html entities make a difference between casing :)
12:12:51  <TrueBrain> really, never assumed .. would have expected they would do something like &usigma; or what-ever
12:13:32  <longtomjr_> makes writing regexes to parse it a little bit more difficult
12:13:42  <TrueBrain> it is how I found out about this, yes :P
12:13:54  <longtomjr_> Wait, you are using a regex to parse html
12:14:11  <TrueBrain> Python "html" library is, yes
12:14:47  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you need regex to tokenize while parsing, anyway
12:15:49  <longtomjr_>
12:16:18  <LordAro> *arbitrary* html
12:16:23  <LordAro> parsing specific html is fine
12:16:30  <LordAro> specific bits of*
12:16:47  <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot parse the opening/closing part of html. the rest is fine
12:16:48  <longtomjr_> I know, still a great post.
12:17:07  <LordAro> oh absolutely
12:17:33  <longtomjr_> this awnser is also one of my favorites.
12:17:45  <longtomjr_> if only Fermat's margins were bigger.
12:21:17  <TrueBrain> what I don't understand, and why I dislike stackoverflow .. the question was honest and pure. Why the rants? It is not helping anyone .. but okay :P
12:25:38  <TrueBrain> in better news, less than 400 pages to check \o/
12:26:28  <TrueBrain> biggest issue: getting <pre> right .. wikitext is horrible in getting that right
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13:00:40  <TrueBrain> 350 ... this is slow :P
13:03:53  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I think this answer is strongly against SO's current guidelines, but grandfathered because it's funny
13:04:14  <FLHerne> "Moderator's note: This post is locked to prevent inappropriate edits to its content. The post looks exactly as it is supposed to look - there are no problems with its content. Please do not flag it for our attention."
13:05:53  <TrueBrain> there are problem with its content, that is my issue :P But good to hear it is against their current guidelines .. this was 10 years ago after all :P
13:13:23  <andythenorth> the first answer has some clever use of fonts
13:23:23  <planetmaker> it's a hilarious and very illustrative answer :)
13:25:40  <TrueBrain> just not to the question asked :D
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13:34:56  <TrueBrain> @base 10 16 34
13:34:56  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 22
13:50:36  <TrueBrain> I love that moment you render shit better than mediawiki \o/ Just makes me a tiny bit happy :)
13:51:03  <TrueBrain> for the rest of the time I am dying over here, as fixing people's shit is BORING AS FUCK
13:51:05  <TrueBrain> but what-ever :P
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13:51:40  <TrueBrain> <- this isn't boring, this isn't boring, this isn't boring, this isn't boring, this isn't boring, this isn't boring, this isn't boring, this isn't boring, this isn't boring, this isn't boring
14:00:16  <TrueBrain> <- like fuck that .. who does that .. NO! Just NO
14:01:20  <longtomjr_> lol, that is so good.
14:02:21  <planetmaker> what's wrong with that page? :D
14:02:28  <TrueBrain> nothing ANYMORE
14:02:29  <LordAro> haha
14:02:47  <longtomjr_> TrueBrain made it the wrong color somehow.
14:03:19  <planetmaker> I don't think so.. it changed colour over the course of times... for whatever reason :D
14:03:29  <andythenorth> someone send TB a cookie
14:03:40  <TrueBrain> <- just look at it ... you have to be colourblind to "enjoy" that :P
14:04:06  <TrueBrain> the worst sin, and why I found this page, was not closing the div btw :P
14:04:07  <planetmaker> yes, I clicked through... disgusting. At an earlier time it was all blueish background :)
14:04:09  <longtomjr_> ah yep, that is probably the problem here :P
14:04:51  <planetmaker>
14:05:53  <longtomjr_> Maybe it would be better if the template supported a different background color as well
14:06:14  <TrueBrain> ... how about NOT changing the background to start with?
14:06:42  <planetmaker> boring :P You are only supposed to read that page when you *really* want to read it
14:06:43  <andythenorth> BUT
14:06:53  <andythenorth> I NEED TO CHANGE THE BACKGROUND
14:06:58  <andythenorth> YOU ARE HITLER
14:07:00  <LordAro> TrueBrain hates freedom of expression
14:07:01  <andythenorth> etc
14:07:14  <longtomjr_> Sorry sorry, I were just joking around. Yep changing the bg color is really not condusive to easy readability
14:07:17  <TrueBrain> LordAro: YES! Fuck people talking :P
14:07:31  <planetmaker> you can choose any background colour you like.
14:07:34  <planetmaker> Provide it's white
14:07:34  <TrueBrain> longtomjr_: pretty sure all of us were trolling
14:08:00  <planetmaker> ^^
14:08:03  <TrueBrain> or andythenorth does think I am Hitler; in that case, I have disappointing news :P
14:08:26  <longtomjr_> Hehe i gathered, better safe than sorry though, don't want you to go mad doing the wiki cleanup
14:08:35  <planetmaker> hm... no. Your name hints more that you're part of the illuminati or so
14:08:36  <longtomjr_> or that might be too late
14:08:43  <planetmaker> world domination is near... I fear
14:09:23  <TrueBrain> "What are we going to do today Brain?"
14:09:35  <andythenorth> we should do a QAnon decode of TB's name
14:09:38  <TrueBrain> I have ~60 more of these wiki pages to check and call names .... I CAN DO THIS!
14:10:54  <longtomjr_> btw, where are you migrating to after the cleanup?
14:11:11  <TrueBrain> truewiki is the plan
14:11:32  <longtomjr_> oke
14:12:38  <longtomjr_> that is increadably hard to find on duck duck go
14:12:47  <TrueBrain> mainly as it doesn't exist (yet)
14:12:57  <longtomjr_> Aaah
14:23:01  <planetmaker> what is that actually?
14:24:42  <andythenorth> clue is in the name :)
14:25:02  <LordAro> OTTD is pivoting to being a wiki
14:25:17  <planetmaker> I thought so... I wonder whether it's a good idea to use a custom software...when the whole point is to reduce maintenance :)
14:26:20  <andythenorth> this way we find out :)
14:26:22  <andythenorth> and it's more fun
14:26:43  <LordAro> off the shelf apparently didn't pan out :p
14:26:48  <planetmaker> where about is it being hosted?
14:29:10  <TrueBrain> I think after letting frosch struggle for a few weeks, it was time to rescue him from the disasters called "wiki software" :P
14:29:48  <planetmaker> is mediawiki really a disaster? Seems tremendously successful for being a disaster
14:30:18  <andythenorth> TrueBrain I didn't look what you've done, is it a python frontend to render html from a ruby backend that has imported the old wiki?
14:30:21  <TrueBrain> those two things sadly enough don't exclude each other planetmaker  ;)
14:30:26  <andythenorth> or is it a totally python thing?
14:30:35  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: NOBODY wants to touch Ruby, so no :)
14:30:41  <planetmaker> they don't ... but it's not like it did a bad job the last 10 years for us
14:30:48  <TrueBrain> that was the whole point .. we failed ot fix the issues in the Ruby shit :P
14:31:00  * LordAro looks at
14:31:01  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: except for the fact we run version 1.19 ;)
14:31:12  <TrueBrain> pretty sure we are talking about two completely different things :D
14:31:25  <TrueBrain> mediawiki is a disaster to maintain, to operate, to have resources allocated for and to, etc :)
14:31:40  <TrueBrain> gollum, as example, turns out to only support a very small subset of wikitext
14:31:43  <TrueBrain> too small for our usage
14:31:52  <planetmaker> yes, we run an ancient version. But upgrading cannot be worse than migrating to something custom... where we have the same issues AND the support at hand
14:31:54  <TrueBrain> and I have a few more of these wiki software on my list with a small rant :P
14:32:13  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: please, feel free to upgrade :) I have been asking for 4+ years for someone to do so ... ;)
14:32:31  <planetmaker> basically I found that all wiki software sucks, to one degree or another. Yet while mediawiki is a ressource hog, it could be made to satisfy most needs
14:32:44  <planetmaker> I neither have access nor the knowledge :P
14:32:57  <TrueBrain> problem with these line of questioning, it forces me to be defensive .. I don't like these conversations that much :) I rather explain things because there is a mutual respect that we did our best to, for example, avoid building our own :)
14:33:54  <LordAro> planetmaker: aiui, it's very expensive (comparatively) to run on AWS, which is where Everything Must Go Now due to actually having a database
14:34:02  <LordAro> rather than storing everything in git
14:34:21  <TrueBrain> well, nobody wants to host the mediawiki, or create the know-how to host it
14:34:25  <TrueBrain> so we hit a bit of a brick wall there
14:34:46  <TrueBrain> and in the end .. I am going to pull the plug from the current version, as it is a huge security hole
14:34:59  <TrueBrain> it is why frosch has been so busy with finding alternatives btw
14:37:34  <longtomjr_> what does liquipedia use
14:38:10  <andythenorth> I wanted to move it all to fandom, but that idea did not find favour :(
14:38:18  <andythenorth> even though it's the weapon of choice for game wikis
14:38:35  <TrueBrain> if it was not for the ads, fandom is nice
14:38:39  <TrueBrain> the ads .. ugh :P
14:38:50  <longtomjr_> Gamepedia is another option, for not having to host it
14:38:53  <planetmaker> flooded by ads, sadly, yes
14:39:21  <TrueBrain> okay, I just spend 15 minutes on figuring out why "0.6.3" is not a valid float
14:39:22  <TrueBrain> ...
14:40:02  <longtomjr_> liquipedia is also mediawiki
14:41:32  <andythenorth> well when we have finished this route, we can find out why it was wrong
14:41:43  <andythenorth> but first, progress!
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14:44:15  <TrueBrain> <span style="width:expressionerror:illegalcharacter:{%;height:2px;background:#7fff00;float:left">
14:44:15  <TrueBrain> :D
14:44:33  <longtomjr_> what am I looking at
14:44:39  <LordAro> a mess
14:46:48  <TrueBrain> people being retards, basically
14:47:06  <longtomjr_> do you know what that is trying to achieve?
14:48:02  <TrueBrain> it is an {{#expr}} that fails executing
14:48:06  <TrueBrain> but it is hidden inside a style
14:48:06  <longtomjr_> or is it better to not dwell on it
14:48:10  <TrueBrain> zo nobody ever notices
14:48:25  <TrueBrain> one of the downsides of mediawiki, it doesn't really show errors clearly that happened during rendeirng
14:48:33  <TrueBrain> so people simply think it works
14:48:51  <TrueBrain> I am running a slightly more pedantic linter over the code now
14:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> so it tried to calculate the width with an expression?
14:49:17  <Eddi|zuHause> and the illegal character was '{'
14:49:28  <TrueBrain> the expression was "{{{2|0}}}" in this case .. just it wasn't in a template
14:49:36  <TrueBrain> so the {{{ }}} is not resolved :)
14:49:47  <TrueBrain> this person copied all the templates in the page
14:50:07  <TrueBrain> it are these kind of things, that makes me giggle :)
14:53:14  * LordAro tries to imagine TrueBrain giggling
14:54:39  <TrueBrain> do you, really? :P
14:54:51  <TrueBrain> I am now fixing pages like
14:54:57  <TrueBrain> I mean .. just that URL alone cracks me up :)
14:55:30  <longtomjr_> my browser renders it in the url field, that is cool
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14:59:32  <TrueBrain> okay .. Main namespace done ... pfft
14:59:57  <TrueBrain> I think I fixed most stuff .. still a bunch of warnings left
15:00:18  <TrueBrain> where people do weird stuff with images .. like "none|center" ... what is it .. none? center? Pick one!
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15:26:18  <TrueBrain> fixing 1 bug, rendering 100 pages correctly .. I like those moments :)
15:29:32  <TrueBrain> either '50%' or 'autottd screenshot' is not a valid image option
15:29:37  <TrueBrain> so many of these warnings :)
15:29:49  <TrueBrain> but I guess % is the width, so it is bogus warning :P
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17:13:37  <Wolf01> andythenorth: did you consider transforming trains?
17:14:16  <Wolf01> like this one
17:19:34  <rptr_> when will they be added?
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17:29:14  <TrueBrain> @calc 50 / (5467 + 185)
17:29:14  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.00884642604388
17:29:18  <TrueBrain> <1% \o/
17:29:46  <andythenorth> rar
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17:33:34  <Deep3D> @calc 1+2
17:33:34  <DorpsGek> Deep3D: 3
17:34:38  <andythenorth> I should finish some grf stuff
17:36:05  <TrueBrain> seems I will reach 100% before you at this rate :P
17:36:32  <TrueBrain> main issue is <pre> .. I need another approach for that ...
17:37:25  <TrueBrain> 36 pages left ... w00p
17:43:09  <TrueBrain> and ... I found a bug in the wikitextparser . bah :P Was hoping I was done with those :D
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18:02:06  <TrueBrain> "; item http://withlink" is seen as "; item http" and "://withlink" :D
18:02:08  <TrueBrain> it is cute :)
18:04:25  <Wolf01> I still miss what are you doing
18:07:17  <TrueBrain> parsing wikitext
18:07:21  <TrueBrain> believe me, RUN
18:11:43  <frosch123> <- and i thought the pages explaning how to use a wiki were stupid...
18:12:15  <longtomjr_> why
18:12:57  <frosch123> is that a question to me? or to the page author?
18:13:12  <longtomjr_> to the page author, sorry
18:13:23  <longtomjr_> that was in 2006
18:13:46  <FLHerne> Useful for 32bppEZ development?
18:14:04  <longtomjr_> 2006 though
18:14:19  <longtomjr_> did 32bppEZ feature then already
18:14:29  <FLHerne> It's probably not worth trying to maintain a Blender manual on the wiki though :p
18:14:40  <frosch123> FLHerne: 1. link them to the offical blender docs. don't write your own. 2. don't recruit novices to "help".
18:14:41  <FLHerne> Not in trunk then, but yes IIRC
18:16:10  <longtomjr_> looks like a building in that one image, might have been working on houses
18:16:24  <FLHerne> I see Yexo added a request-deletion tag in 2008
18:16:52  <FLHerne> (which got removed by the next editor two years later...)
18:17:07  <longtomjr_> Author is/was a new gfx artist according to their user page
18:19:37  <longtomjr_> can imagine he got a lot of people asking how to do something, so he wrote a wiki page for it
18:19:42  <longtomjr_> or some other reason
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18:28:28  <TrueBrain> @calc 31 / (5476 + 195)
18:28:28  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.00546640804091
18:30:58  <TrueBrain> those 31 pages all have <pre> issues
18:31:09  <TrueBrain> the rest I can parse, and produce near-similar HTML output compared to mediawiki :D
18:35:38  <frosch123> "A few people had a bit too much to drink, and there speech was starting to get slurred, so not all that much made sense. Currently the only stuff that needs to be finalised is company colours and pallette animations."
18:36:03  <TrueBrain> and, did those people ever do so? :D
18:36:34  <frosch123> no idea, i do not know them
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18:38:24  <TrueBrain> hmm .. my regex abilities are low, I notice :D
18:39:33  <rptr_> that blender screenshot looks ancient
18:40:02  <longtomjr_> goodness, people working on EZ graphics in 2006, just realised we still had dial-up internet with the bank back then.
18:41:23  <longtomjr_> That cost a fortune as well
18:41:47  <TrueBrain> 32bpp still costs a fortune, even in 2020 :)
18:41:52  <TrueBrain> you don't want to know our AWS bill :P
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18:42:29  <longtomjr_> What is the heavy costs on the aws bill? GRF downloads?
18:42:40  <longtomjr_> (and uploads)
18:42:47  <frosch123> people downloading both abase and zbase, and then using neither
18:42:54  <longtomjr_> or bananas content rather
18:43:16  <TrueBrain> what frosch123 says :)
18:43:23  <TrueBrain> we do ~6TB a month
18:43:25  <longtomjr_> lets see if I am part of the problem.
18:43:56  <TrueBrain> okay, I have this regular expression "re.sub": re.sub(r'((^ [^\n]*\n)+)', r'<pre></pre>', contents, flags=re.MULTILINE)
18:43:57  <TrueBrain> hmm
18:43:59  <longtomjr_> I know of folks running a server that downloads the whole bananas every month or so,because they are lazy of figuring out the bananas content when they want to host an scn.
18:44:19  <TrueBrain> my client ate the replacement 1, I see
18:44:26  <TrueBrain> but iagine that in there ..
18:44:34  <TrueBrain> can I also make it eat the first space of every line somehow ..
18:44:52  <TrueBrain> longtomjr_: yeah ... but those people aren't really the problem, I noticed :)
18:45:16  <longtomjr_> what are  you trying to match TrueBrain?
18:46:46  <TrueBrain> if I pick September .. we have 1TB of data to zBase, 500GB to abase; the next one is 25GB
18:46:55  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i don't think you can. back references always refer to a consecutive string
18:47:00  <TrueBrain> zBase and abase combined are downloaded 5k times :P
18:47:06  <longtomjr_> goodness.
18:47:08  <frosch123> so you cannot reference to N lines and skip some chars
18:47:10  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I was afraid of that :P
18:47:43  <TrueBrain> well, I guess I just have to match() it, and run it in reverse
18:48:15  <TrueBrain> annoying that the space has to be replaced .. a single regex is so much faster :P
18:50:02  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD, the game client, itself is btw 100GB in that same timeframe, for win64 only
18:50:14  <TrueBrain> yeah .. zBase and abase rule the world :P
18:50:19  <frosch123> TrueBrain: you can do it with two subs. first put <pre></pre> on every line while deleting the space. then delete </pre>\n<pre>
18:50:36  <TrueBrain> that is clever, that is better than I was doing :)
18:50:50  <TrueBrain> I wanted to remove the space if between <pre> blocks :D
18:54:33  <longtomjr_> What is this, start each line with a space for preformatted text on mediawiki. I did not know this. Seems like an odd choice...
18:54:59  <TrueBrain> you want to hear more odd choices? We will be here a while :P
18:56:39  <TrueBrain> okay, now I need to exclude the line from starting with <
18:56:42  <TrueBrain> euhmmmmmmmm
18:57:28  <longtomjr_> Wikipedia on mediawiki: "Upgrading MediaWiki is usually fully automated, requiring no changes to the site content or template programming. Historically troubles have been encountered when upgrading from significantly older versions."
18:57:54  <frosch123> that probably applies to every software :)
18:59:53  <TrueBrain> ah, there is "re" and "regex"
18:59:56  <TrueBrain> regex supports PCRE
19:00:00  <TrueBrain> which has greedy modifiers :D
19:00:07  <TrueBrain> r'^ ([ \t]*+[^<][^\n]*)$'
19:00:10  <TrueBrain> still with me? :P
19:00:19  <TrueBrain> if you have a problem you are trying to solve with regex, you have 2 problems
19:00:39  <TrueBrain> your trick seems to work frosch123  :)
19:01:27  <frosch123> you have to start with rune magic
19:02:35  <longtomjr_> *+ is giving me an error
19:03:46  <TrueBrain> PCRE :)
19:03:56  <TrueBrain> it is a greedy modifier :)
19:04:15  <TrueBrain> well, "without giving back", it means
19:04:35  <TrueBrain> the Python regex module supports it; re does not
19:04:37  <frosch123> maybe you want to add \n to [^<]
19:05:49  <TrueBrain> that is not sufficient to pick up empty lines with only a space
19:06:20  <TrueBrain> first, I have to solve another issue ... something else is eating my <pre>s :P
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19:09:08  <TrueBrain> ugh ... " <none>" should be escaped
19:09:16  <TrueBrain> so it is not only <, it is < but only for known tags
19:09:17  <TrueBrain> ....
19:11:14  <TrueBrain> this is why initially I was walking the HTML tree
19:11:25  <TrueBrain> picking up this info
19:11:37  <TrueBrain> but .. that is slow and the Python "html" lib does odd things
19:12:41  <frosch123> you can use known html tags in <pre> and they will work?
19:12:57  <TrueBrain> within a <pre> block, HTML is ignored
19:13:16  <TrueBrain> but this is before there are <pre> blocks :)
19:14:00  <TrueBrain> so basically I need to check if it starts with a space, and NOT with a known tag ..
19:14:18  <TrueBrain> hmm .. so I guess I just split on newline, and do it the old-fashioned way
19:15:36  <longtomjr_> Anyways, I am off to bed. Good luck with summoning tony the pony
19:15:44  <TrueBrain> cheers
19:21:15  <frosch123> i like how there are scenarios "south america" and "south yorkshire"
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19:24:45  <TrueBrain> owh, funny, <b> does work inside a pre-block
19:24:51  <TrueBrain> seriously .. this randomness ...
19:27:11  <TrueBrain> even ''' work in a pre-block ..
19:27:16  <TrueBrain> boy, they really messed this up, didn't they?
19:28:10  <frosch123> does <pre> or <tt> work inside an space-indent block?
19:28:19  <TrueBrain> try it out
19:28:53  <frosch123> nah, not that interesting. i am busy running sed 's#.*#""#' review.txt | xargs firefox
19:29:05  <TrueBrain> :D
19:29:49  <frosch123> it's funny how it takes to load a wiki page, if yuo load 50 in parallel :)
19:29:54  <frosch123> +long
19:30:29  <TrueBrain> if they are cached, it is quick ..
19:30:34  <TrueBrain> but it is the reason I have the full wiki cached
19:30:40  <TrueBrain> I can run all ~6k pages in ~90 seconds now
19:35:51  <frosch123>   <- what?
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19:37:05  <frosch123> maybe someone did math homework with their kids
19:37:06  <andythenorth> frosch123 that's remarkable
19:37:16  <andythenorth> it concludes on an a tautology
19:37:21  <andythenorth> an a
19:38:02  <andythenorth> 'the most economical aircraft are those that can serve this route economically'
19:38:10  <andythenorth> well it's what, 15 years old?
19:38:16  <andythenorth> also doesn't account for ratings :P
19:39:41  <frosch123> you know... there are pages which you can just trash. but something you think you are stealing the giggles of future generations
19:40:04  <TrueBrain> :D
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19:44:35  <TrueBrain> owh, if ANY valid tag is inside a line with starting with a space, it will not be put inside a pre-block
19:44:43  <TrueBrain> so " test <div> "
19:44:53  <TrueBrain> is also not put inside a pre-block
19:44:56  <TrueBrain> rigggghhhhhttttt
19:45:23  <TrueBrain> this feels like someone just had too much to drink when writing this :D
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19:59:46  <TrueBrain> I am just reverse engineering this algorithm of theirs .. maybe I should just look in their PHP code ...
20:00:37  <TrueBrain> lol .. links in pre-blocks also work ... WHY ...
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20:00:41  <TrueBrain> where does this stop?
20:01:02  <TrueBrain> images work too
20:01:02  <TrueBrain> lol
20:01:05  <TrueBrain> how is that "pre"
20:01:13  <TrueBrain> LordAro: what does this do in a modern wiki:
20:01:14  <TrueBrain>   http://test
20:01:14  <TrueBrain>   [[Image:no_image.png]]
20:01:19  <TrueBrain> ? (spaces before both lines)
20:03:00  <frosch123> does it convert the image to ascii art?
20:03:08  <TrueBrain> not even that :P
20:03:16  <frosch123> unfinished :)
20:03:48  <TrueBrain> I wonder if anyone would ever want this to work tbh
20:03:51  <TrueBrain> <b> etc, sure
20:03:52  <TrueBrain> but images?
20:03:54  <TrueBrain> and links?
20:03:56  <TrueBrain> feels a bug
20:04:26  <andythenorth> who was it liked the Wales & West Country scenario?
20:04:31  <andythenorth> LordAro? FLHerne ?
20:08:15  * LordAro 
20:08:32  * andythenorth making a test, in a branch
20:08:42  <andythenorth> in 12 months, remind me I had a branch :P
20:08:52  <LordAro> lol
20:09:37  <andythenorth> it would really benefit from someone making a scenario :P
20:09:38  <andythenorth> if it works
20:09:45  <andythenorth> or some kind of map regions thing
20:12:45  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Both of us, I think
20:13:14  <andythenorth> hmm
20:13:19  <andythenorth> it's not what I remember
20:13:30  <andythenorth> the scenario I have is Wales, plus Bristol and Liverpool
20:13:37  <andythenorth> I thought it was cornwall etc and south wales
20:13:57  <andythenorth> Manchester is not West Country :P
20:15:05  <andythenorth> found it I think
20:15:57  <andythenorth> ?
20:16:21  <andythenorth> obviously contains Chipping Sodbury :P
20:16:22  <andythenorth> natch
20:17:03  <andythenorth> oh Clifton has it's own town
20:17:07  <TrueBrain> okay, in newer mediawiki [[ ]] no longer works
20:17:09  <TrueBrain> so that is good
20:17:14  <TrueBrain> links still happen, but what-ever, I can live with that
20:19:32  <andythenorth> what does wiki say about West Country 90210
20:19:34  * andythenorth looks
20:19:48  <andythenorth> nada
20:20:56  <TrueBrain> hmm ...inside a <code> block, ''' is not resolved, it seems .. seriously, this is hilarious, the randomness of this all :)
20:21:35  <TrueBrain> hmm, it should resolve
20:22:29  <TrueBrain> ah... nowiki block ..
20:22:31  <TrueBrain> makes sense
20:25:52  <TrueBrain> ah .... bug in the parser :D DOH!
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20:28:17  <TrueBrain> but okay, it seems <pre> is working .. ish :)
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20:30:40  <TrueBrain> in the end, this doesn't have to render the exact same HTML .. I mostly wanted to make sure I got the structure of the HTML document correct
20:30:43  <TrueBrain> and I do now :D
20:30:45  <TrueBrain> so that is epic win ;)
20:31:05  <TrueBrain> (as in, if the parser was doing what it should be doing)
20:34:29  <LordAro> :)
20:39:38  <frosch123> i think a week ago, you told the parser guy that you were done and would not have to report more bugs :)
20:39:59  <TrueBrain> I did? Hmm .. can't remember honestly
20:40:06  <TrueBrain> did tell him today that everything parses :)
20:43:20  <TrueBrain> would you expect https://things in a <pre> block to be linkable or not?
20:43:42  <TrueBrain> example:
20:43:58  <andythenorth> wat?
20:43:59  <andythenorth> no
20:44:03  <andythenorth> not by default
20:44:15  <andythenorth> people want to do that shit, they can get their own wiki
20:44:24  <TrueBrain> haha :D
20:44:41  <andythenorth> every pre-block should include the 'copy to clipboard' icon and js
20:44:48  <andythenorth> what else are they for? not for clicking on
20:45:25  <frosch123> i think <pre> is mostly <tt>. it's just a fixed-size font.
20:45:32  <FLHerne> I quite like it, but not auto-linking it seems sane too
20:45:36  <TrueBrain> no, <tt> and <code> are more the same frosch123
20:45:39  <frosch123> the rest (except pictures) makes still sense
20:45:40  <TrueBrain> well, <tt> no longer exists, but hwat-ever
20:45:49  <TrueBrain> <pre> is much more, in wikitext language at least
20:46:08  <frosch123> what is indent? pre or code?
20:46:28  <TrueBrain> pre
20:46:38  <TrueBrain> wikitext makes a difference between indent and pre btw .. which is also fun
20:46:47  <TrueBrain> if you do a manually <pre>, it is also a <nowiki>, basically
20:46:53  <TrueBrain> it doesn't parse anything in there
20:47:04  <andythenorth> stupid FIRS :)
20:47:10  <andythenorth> calls 'fruit' as 'fruits'
20:47:14  <andythenorth> fruit is already plural silly
20:47:31  <FLHerne> Speaking of code blocks...can anyone tell me what "spoler" means in this context? > hello. is anyway to use "+" spoler in cate for some code blocks ?
20:47:45  <andythenorth> progressive disclosure
20:47:55  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: E_LEXER_ERROR
20:48:01  <andythenorth> forever now known as 'spoiler'
20:48:04  <FLHerne> I would like to answer the question, but it's meaningless gibberish, so I can't
20:48:08  <LordAro> spoiler perhaps?
20:48:18  <LordAro> as in a close/open section
20:48:19  <andythenorth> it's a disclosure block
20:48:29  <LordAro> hide/show, even
20:48:32  <FLHerne> Oh, I see
20:48:36  <andythenorth> summary/details if html5
20:48:39  <TrueBrain> I see LordAro has a fuzzier parser than we do :D
20:48:45  <LordAro> i've no idea of the context
20:48:47  <andythenorth> like train wagons are now 'carts' everywhere
20:48:51  <andythenorth> stuff changes
20:49:02  <LordAro> but i've seen '+' used in that way before, and spoler looks a bit like spoiler
20:49:17  <LordAro> and spoiler could mean "hidden"
20:49:21  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: andythenorth has children, I think?
20:49:25  <FLHerne> Maybe that helps
20:49:34  <andythenorth> also much discussion about GoT
20:49:35  <TrueBrain> how does that help LordAro ? :D
20:49:49  <andythenorth> our work irc is all 'NO SPOILERS'
20:49:58  <andythenorth> isn't it a reddit thing?
20:50:01  <TrueBrain> this conversation confuses me now :P
20:50:11  <andythenorth> I always start confused
20:50:15  <andythenorth> which aids greatly
20:51:30  <andythenorth> can we do regions :P
20:51:39  <TrueBrain> one of the more annoying things I found out about mediawiki, it inspects images
20:51:42  <andythenorth> for newgrf industries or something
20:51:48  * andythenorth back to FIRS
20:52:02  <TrueBrain> and for example in a gallery, if you say: height 200px, it changes the margin to be 200px together with the real height of the image
20:52:02  <FLHerne> Regions?
20:52:13  <TrueBrain> I wonder if you can do the same with CSS, without knowing the image height
20:52:20  <FLHerne> Can't the placement check do that already?
20:52:30  <andythenorth> in a limited way yes
20:52:34  <andythenorth> and in a limited way it works
20:52:38  <FLHerne> Or do you want the map to specify the 'right' regions somehow?
20:52:45  <andythenorth> there's no way to do that afaict
20:52:57  <andythenorth> short of designing a scenario
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20:53:19  <TrueBrain> <- andythenorth knows this .. could I do the same without knowing the height of an image? :D (check the "margin" property on these pictures .. it is calculated by mediawiki)
20:53:20  <andythenorth> need to put sheep in the welsh hills, and cows in pembrokeshire and devon
20:53:23  <FLHerne> You could probably do something horrible with GS industry placement, and maybe a few signs
20:53:37  <andythenorth> urgh TrueBrain
20:53:40  <FLHerne> (you don't need the signs if you hard-code the regions into your GS)
20:54:35  * andythenorth would probably set a max-height on the container, and let the image sort itself out
20:54:40  <andythenorth> and max-width
20:54:46  <andythenorth> I hate all that stuff TBH :)
20:55:02  <TrueBrain> meh; guess I will fiddle with it some day
20:55:03  <andythenorth> if we're modern, it's probably all fixed by flexbox, but I can't use it so eh, dunno
20:55:11  <TrueBrain> I believe only 17 pages have a gallery, sowhat-ever :P
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20:55:28  <andythenorth> there's always a way
20:55:57  * andythenorth considers cheese cargo
21:03:38  <TrueBrain> hmmm .. cheese ....
21:05:01  <FLHerne> You say that just as I sit down with my plate of cheese-on-pasta :p
21:06:03  <TrueBrain> we do NOT have a webcam in your home
21:06:05  <TrueBrain> I repeat
21:06:07  <TrueBrain> we do NOT
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21:11:13  <andythenorth> started a WAWC economy LordAro FLHerne
21:11:23  <andythenorth> maybe I should call it 'In A Rainy Country'
21:11:28  <andythenorth> to go with IAHC FIRS
21:12:06  <andythenorth> probably about 50 cargos I reckon
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21:26:57  <andythenorth> needs bananas
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