Log for #openttd on 25th October 2020:
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02:33:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] KhoiCanDev opened issue #63: [vi_VN] Translator access request
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08:00:55  <andythenorth> yo
08:28:48  * andythenorth wonders what statues do
08:29:57  <andythenorth> increases station ratings :o
08:31:24  <andythenorth> lol, the station ratings calculation
08:31:32  <andythenorth> I never really engaged with it
08:31:35  <andythenorth> it is really stupid?
08:39:24  <TrueBrain> nah, it is awesome :D
08:39:33  <TrueBrain> hmm .. do I put the normal OpenTTD web-header on top of the wiki or not? :D
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08:44:26  <andythenorth> ESI
08:45:05  <TrueBrain> bless you :P
08:48:08  <TrueBrain> it might work, but it is also a lot of space it takes
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09:42:44  <FLHerne> andythenorth: tbh, although the way it's calculated is probably stupid, I find the actual results to be fairly reasonable
09:43:29  <FLHerne> (although bulk cargoes are probably too sensitive to it -- coal doesn't mind sitting in a pile for weeks)
09:43:50  <andythenorth> I need to set up autoreplace to every 6 months
09:43:53  <andythenorth> that's kind of lolz
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10:04:44  <andythenorth> if I retire I might just do newgrf
10:11:18  <TrueBrain> <- pretty sure I am forgetting CSS on some elements, but at least it doesn't look totally hideous :P
10:11:26  <andythenorth> could be worse
10:11:52  <andythenorth> omfg it just is better isn't it
10:11:57  <andythenorth> generally
10:12:15  * andythenorth looking at
10:12:43  <TrueBrain> some pages people have done things .....
10:12:59  <TrueBrain> they didn't add a float to the right thingy, it seems
10:13:09  <TrueBrain> hmm, there is
10:13:16  <TrueBrain> ah, there we go
10:14:11  <TrueBrain> I like the font, font-size and line-height .. width seems fine
10:14:14  <TrueBrain> most menus are fine
10:14:15  <TrueBrain> images look fine
10:14:29  <TrueBrain> let's hope that someone with knowledge of CSS comes along and makes it better than fine
10:14:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #8332: Null pointer dereference in group window when vehicle/group dragging
10:15:37  <andythenorth> I might look later this year
10:15:42  <andythenorth> if nobody else does it first
10:17:02  <TrueBrain> you already know the answer to that, but that is fine :)
10:20:35  <andythenorth> ow
10:20:49  <andythenorth> I just tried to pull a broken lightning plug out of an iPad
10:21:20  <andythenorth> I don't know an iPad battery rating, but it gave a reasonable shock
10:21:23  <andythenorth> my arm hurts
10:21:28  <andythenorth> and my thumb is tingling
10:27:24  <TrueBrain> SUE THEM!
10:28:26  <TrueBrain> right, now added a nice anchor indication per title :)
10:31:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8332: Null pointer dereference in group window when vehicle/group dragging
10:34:21  <andythenorth> sue my kids?
10:34:24  <andythenorth> for breaking the wire?
10:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like an awesome idea
10:35:59  <TrueBrain> <- now with source! :)
10:36:15  <TrueBrain> pre-blocks don't wrap, funny
10:37:32  <TrueBrain> in a textarea-block it goes
10:39:52  <TrueBrain> okay ... now lets see how to add translations to the mix
10:39:57  <TrueBrain> a banner on top? On the side?
10:39:58  <TrueBrain> dropdown?
10:43:18  <TrueBrain> I am shocked, it even reads good on mobile :o
10:43:40  <TrueBrain> well, not everything; but a lot does :P
10:48:10  <Wolf01> andythenorth, just yesterday I was watching this video and I thought about you
10:51:01  <andythenorth> ha
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11:07:50  <frosch123> TrueBrain: looks awesome :)
11:08:16  <TrueBrain> :D
11:08:56  <frosch123> last night i concluded that most "directories" have some kind of "main page", that should be shown when you only enter the directory in the url
11:09:04  <TrueBrain> fixed the "View Source" :P
11:09:08  <frosch123> should i name those pages "Main Page.mediawiki"? better names?
11:09:27  <TrueBrain> (well, you have to reload first :P)
11:09:35  <frosch123> i did now :)
11:09:40  <TrueBrain> hmm ... that sounds like a good idea
11:09:40  <frosch123> but funny how you know it's me :p
11:09:44  <TrueBrain> :D
11:09:54  <TrueBrain> I don't really; was just an educated guess :P
11:10:15  <TrueBrain> having a Main Page as "index" sounds fine by me
11:10:25  <TrueBrain> I am now working on the language bar .. I think this is a nice place where you see it now
11:10:30  <frosch123> the double scroll bar though
11:10:56  <TrueBrain> double scrollbar?
11:11:04  <frosch123> if source view is too high
11:11:07  <TrueBrain> ah
11:11:13  <frosch123> so you can scroll inside the source view (fine)
11:11:14  <TrueBrain> yeah, you cannot make a textarea "100%" it seems
11:11:18  <frosch123> but you can also scroll the whole page
11:11:37  <TrueBrain> btw, those main templates are mediawiki pages :P
11:11:42  <TrueBrain> I needed a template-engine :D
11:12:27  <frosch123> what? you implemented the ottd page layout in mediawiki? :p
11:12:40  <TrueBrain> :D
11:13:04  <TrueBrain> btw, only for english it needs to be "Main Page", I guess; all other languages will use the translate system
11:13:45  <frosch123> how should that work? how will you know what the main page of a translation is then?
11:14:07  <TrueBrain> via the translation system :)
11:15:02  <frosch123> sounds like magic :) still no idea how it would work, but i'll happily watch for the surprise
11:15:24  <TrueBrain> I just keep in memory for every folder what the "main page" is
11:15:42  <TrueBrain> if a translation doesn't have one .. well, we will have to see what to show in those cases
11:15:51  <TrueBrain> not sure where to leave this folder thingy btw ..
11:15:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] MaksGITHUB1 opened issue #64: [pl_PL] Translator access request
11:15:54  <TrueBrain> style-wise
11:16:01  <TrueBrain> GITHUB1 :D
11:16:02  <TrueBrain> lol
11:16:41  <frosch123> Maks Github the 1st :)
11:17:09  <TrueBrain> I do not understand why there is so much visual space between the flag and the text
11:17:48  <TrueBrain> line-height :D
11:18:23  <frosch123> maybe <br> is the wrong thing to do. css seems to put everything into <ul>
11:18:28  <TrueBrain> look at that, it works for the main page :D
11:18:45  <TrueBrain> hmm, I now just what mediawiki used, but I like your idea more tbh
11:18:53  <TrueBrain> btw, that language text is a [[ ]] :D
11:18:59  <TrueBrain> and that is why it is unlinked :P
11:20:28  <TrueBrain> there we go, ul/li :)
11:21:10  <TrueBrain> now to generate that for every page somehow .. hmmmmm
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11:32:24  <TrueBrain> awh, you cannot color all utf-8 icons
11:44:20  <TrueBrain> takes 2 seconds to build up the translation matrix .. that is not bad .. that can be done on startup tbh
11:51:04  <andythenorth> hmm
11:51:09  * andythenorth drawing ships
11:51:20  <andythenorth> such shapes
11:51:32  <TrueBrain> <- only works for english pages so far, but languages! :D
11:53:22  <TrueBrain> now english up front
11:53:47  <TrueBrain> it is really in-your-face .. I don't like it
11:53:50  <TrueBrain> meh; lunch first
11:54:28  <andythenorth> always lunch first
11:56:57  <frosch123> is it possible to have those languages in a combobox?
11:59:05  <TrueBrain> sure, but that would make it a lot less visible
11:59:11  <TrueBrain> as in, I think that would make it near useless
11:59:29  <TrueBrain> maybe on the right side, from top to bottom
12:08:33  <andythenorth> it's usually "[flag] English | Change Language" ?
12:08:38  <andythenorth> seems convention
12:09:42  <TrueBrain> But you lose visibility if your page is translated or not
12:09:54  <TrueBrain> That only works if all pages are translated
12:11:47  <frosch123> oh, just noticed that the images are now properly transparent. that failed in gollum :)
12:13:53  <TrueBrain> Yeah ... much better not? :D
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12:36:42  <TrueBrain> what I have been thinking, we can do that you select the language you want the wiki in, and it renders English pages if it doesn't have that language
12:37:03  <TrueBrain> it could also mean you don't have to translate links, for example . .we can just replace them with the language you want
12:37:13  <TrueBrain> downside ... it would make the website a lot more dynamic .. and static is better :P
12:40:04  <frosch123> i think we should not tie the translations too strong together
12:40:35  <TrueBrain> I think that is the right call :)
12:40:37  <frosch123> that makes merging pages very hard, when one english page vanishes, and the translations remain
12:40:58  <frosch123> there are also a lot of pages, which do not exist in english
12:41:54  <frosch123> in the end, the translators have to sort out the mess in their translation. we can't do that :)
12:42:36  <TrueBrain> so where are we going to put it .. hmm
12:43:01  <TrueBrain> for most part it looks fine where it is now .. it is just if there are MANY languages it becomes annoying :D
12:43:16  <TrueBrain> anyway, all translations now too have a translation bar
12:44:26  <TrueBrain> well, I think I am going to leave it like this for now
12:44:43  <TrueBrain> right ... next up, Categories .. that will be interesting :D
12:53:36  <frosch123> ugh... redirects.... i lost counting how often i adjusted that regex for even more insane variants
12:54:40  <TrueBrain> yeah ..... I feel you :(
12:54:50  <TrueBrain> I also love how escaping went wrong on our wiki
12:54:56  <TrueBrain> as in .. sometimes it is just an UTF-8 char
12:55:02  <TrueBrain> sometimes  it is escaped
12:55:05  <TrueBrain> sometimes it is .. something else
12:55:18  <TrueBrain> is a wide variety of shit :P
12:55:32  <TrueBrain> <- I love how people failed to crop properly
12:56:00  <TrueBrain> seems to be REALLY difficult :P
12:56:52  <TrueBrain> so categories still at the bottom, I guess?
12:59:20  <frosch123> pushed an update
12:59:24  <frosch123> fixed redirects and capitalisation
12:59:35  <frosch123> renamed a lot of pages to "Main Page" for their directory
12:59:47  <frosch123> removed the /Main/ directory, and moved those pages one level up
12:59:57  <frosch123> so main main page is now en/Main Page
13:00:55  <frosch123> TrueBrain: categories at the bottom is fine. makes them similar as before
13:01:11  <frosch123> but i think categorie are similar to those toc templates. if we have a file tree, we can get rid of most
13:01:36  <TrueBrain>
13:02:05  <frosch123> the link colors are inverted now?
13:02:10  <TrueBrain> "inverted"?
13:02:51  <frosch123> valid links are now orange instead of blue (i guess ottd style), dead links are grey instead of red (really invisible)
13:03:05  <frosch123> i guess i  just did not notice earlier :p
13:03:05  <TrueBrain> I do not see how that is inverted :P
13:03:13  <TrueBrain> but yes, orange because of our normal style
13:03:21  <TrueBrain> grey because I hated the red, but haven't found a correct color
13:03:30  <TrueBrain> and purple because ... similar reasons
13:03:31  <TrueBrain> :P
13:03:40  <TrueBrain> I am open for suggestions :)
13:03:53  <frosch123> well, i said "inverted" because the first dead link was on orange background, so the grey looked blueish
13:04:00  <TrueBrain> :D
13:04:14  <TrueBrain> hmm, a template is leaking through "40px" .. lets see what that is aobut
13:04:39  <frosch123> <- wow, the tabs work :)
13:04:39  <TrueBrain> an Image: link!
13:05:08  <TrueBrain> there are still 509 "Image:" links :)
13:05:11  <TrueBrain> I do not support those :P
13:05:28  <frosch123> TrueBrain: oh, i also readded images which only differ in case. it made no sense to delete/redirect them
13:05:31  <frosch123> about 11 cases
13:05:45  <TrueBrain> fine by me
13:05:59  <frosch123> the Image: links should be inside templates only
13:06:11  <TrueBrain> Page/es/Manual/Puentes.mediawiki
13:06:15  <frosch123> as in "Image:{{{1}}}"
13:06:17  <TrueBrain> doesn't seem to be a template :P
13:06:27  <TrueBrain> Page/es/Manual/Puentes.mediawiki:[[Image:Ottdbridge9.png|none|frame|Not really useful, but...]]
13:07:07  <TrueBrain> templates have them too, yes, in the way you describe :)
13:07:11  <frosch123> it also has an underscore...
13:07:15  <frosch123> something went wrong there :)
13:07:35  <frosch123> TrueBrain: templates will need manual fixing :)
13:07:43  <TrueBrain> just sed it, I would say
13:07:49  <TrueBrain> it is very unlike "Image:" is valid :P
13:08:43  <TrueBrain> I can also implement "Image:", but that only allows people to still do it wrong tbh :P
13:08:57  <frosch123> TrueBrain: lol, the Puentes example is inside a <!-- --> comment
13:09:05  <frosch123> wikitextparser skips those, so i do not convert :)
13:09:10  <TrueBrain> ah :)
13:09:14  <TrueBrain> I just did a "grep" :P
13:09:32  <frosch123> okay, i can add a stupid Image: -> File: sed :)
13:09:34  <TrueBrain> just sed all the files for Image: -> File: I would say, just to get all those pesky Image: away :P
13:09:35  <TrueBrain> :D
13:09:46  <TrueBrain> it is the only one which is an "issue" :P
13:10:14  <TrueBrain> okay ... do we want categories at all, given the folder structure?
13:10:20  <TrueBrain> or do we just drop it?
13:11:19  <frosch123> hard to say. i am worried people will create more of those stupid "list" pages...
13:11:33  <frosch123> the scenarios had like 20 list pages, because people did not know about categories
13:12:11  <frosch123> hmm the "Main Page" change looks funny in a lot of places
13:12:20  <frosch123> link texts become weird
13:12:37  <TrueBrain> how do you mean?
13:13:10  <frosch123> <- "Main Page" at the top would be nicer as "Tutorial". toc on the right "Main Page Tutorials" is lolz
13:13:39  <TrueBrain> yeah ... we can make it so "Main Page" it not shown, but the category it belongs in
13:14:52  <frosch123> i gues that is the best option. rest must be fixed manually
13:15:57  <TrueBrain> hmm .. but translations are a bit more difficult for that :D
13:16:26  <frosch123> if we do not show "Main Page" we can also name translations "Main Page"
13:16:51  <frosch123> not sure whether the categories will be translated at some point
13:17:20  <TrueBrain> I think they should
13:17:23  <TrueBrain> but not sure how to support that :D
13:17:31  <frosch123> pr only
13:17:40  <frosch123> no mass edits via the gui :)
13:19:01  <frosch123> aw, all pages i wrote down as "broken in gollum" some weeks ago, now work. this is like christmas :)
13:19:10  <TrueBrain> and have the same Translation: marker
13:20:20  <frosch123> yes, translators have to fix that
13:21:06  <frosch123> it's good to show the flag twice in that case. so translators see it :)
13:21:16  <TrueBrain> <- there is an additional folder here
13:21:20  <TrueBrain> was that intentional?
13:21:49  <TrueBrain> seems to mean "Tutorial" :P
13:22:26  <TrueBrain> anyway, as you can see there now, when-ever a page links to what would have been in english the "Main Page", the folder name is used
13:22:39  <frosch123> well, "intentional" :p i am aware that that happens in translations. but since i do not know translations :)
13:22:40  <TrueBrain> so you shouldn't see anywhere "Main Page" anymore, neither on any of the translations
13:23:03  <frosch123> basicaly i moved all translations into the same categories. but they keep whatever name they had before
13:23:13  <TrueBrain> including any /, gotcha
13:23:37  <TrueBrain> <- so this is called "Spiel beginnen", but the page name is Tutorial
13:23:41  <TrueBrain> as it links to the english Main Page
13:23:51  <TrueBrain> if that makes sense :)
13:24:55  <frosch123>   <- this is another example, where i renamed the english page, but can't do the same for translations
13:24:55  <TrueBrain> <- I can now also make this work
13:25:01  <TrueBrain> so you don't see "Main Page" in the URL
13:25:06  <frosch123> the 3/4 is not a directory there
13:25:39  <TrueBrain> funny how that slash is an UTF-8 char
13:25:42  <TrueBrain> and not a slash :P
13:25:57  <frosch123> that's the reason i got banned yesterday :p
13:26:08  <frosch123> i was searching for chars that look like / but are no /
13:26:08  <TrueBrain> <- and here it is a slash
13:26:20  <frosch123> now i use a "division slash"
13:26:31  <TrueBrain> well, fix that one page too plz :D
13:26:31  <TrueBrain> :P
13:26:48  <TrueBrain> <- is this a good idea? I can apply the same for translations?
13:26:50  <frosch123> it's not one page
13:27:12  <frosch123> there is also OS/2 and SH/Hendry
13:27:37  <TrueBrain> <- or even that
13:27:58  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, that's a good idea :)
13:28:10  <TrueBrain> now to make it work for translations ..... :P
13:28:10  <frosch123> does it also work without / ?
13:28:23  <frosch123> hmm, ignore that :)
13:28:28  <TrueBrain> :)
13:28:39  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i can rename the translations to "Main Page" as well, if you want
13:28:53  <TrueBrain> lets go with that .. makes it a lot easier
13:28:54  <TrueBrain> for many things
13:29:10  <TrueBrain> I can solve it otherwise, but if we are not going to show the name anyway, it doesn't matter
13:52:32  * andythenorth misses Eddi|zuHause
13:52:50  <andythenorth> what happened to Eddi anyway?
13:52:52  <Wolf01> TB: is it you who guessed the POTUS' twitter password in 5 tries?
13:54:32  <TrueBrain> Wolf01: fuck no
13:54:38  <TrueBrain> that article was .. euh .. "special"
13:54:45  <TrueBrain> "it was one of the passwords I suggested to him 4 years ago"
13:54:51  <TrueBrain> 1) why the FUCK would you suggest passwords?
13:54:55  <TrueBrain> 2) why the FUCK is it this weak?
13:55:04  <TrueBrain> 3) why the FUCK are you trying if it was one of them? Holy crap
13:55:14  <TrueBrain> no, I am distancing myself far far FAR away from that :P
13:55:51  <TrueBrain> frosch123: not all folders have a Main Page :)
13:56:06  <frosch123> lol, wut? you wrote in three short sentences more info than in any german news article
13:56:26  <Wolf01> :D
13:56:27  <TrueBrain> they didn't report that part of his interview?
13:56:34  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, not all. and pretty sure the "Archive" folders will never get one
13:56:52  <TrueBrain> frosch123: hmm .. that makes building such navigation a bit tricky :)
13:56:58  <Wolf01> <frosch123> lol, wut? you wrote in three short sentences more info than in any german news article <- not that italian ones tell much more
13:57:08  <TrueBrain> also, "Common templates", "Manual of style" and "Templates" should not be in the root tbh :P
13:58:25  <frosch123> do you suggest to add a "Wiki" category, and revive the Village Pump page as main page of it?
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13:59:40  <TrueBrain> dunno ..
13:59:51  <TrueBrain> <- trying to build the navigation in the top left
13:59:58  <TrueBrain> (ignore styling :D)
14:01:55  <frosch123> TrueBrain: on mediawiki you can also view category pages, which do not have an explicit page
14:02:00  <frosch123> they will still list their members
14:02:14  <TrueBrain> owh, I see the Volkskrant changed the article .. seems they reported the initial time a bit .. wrong too :P
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14:02:53  <TrueBrain> frosch123: sorry, I don't follow what you said there
14:03:19  <frosch123>
14:03:33  <TrueBrain> yeah, so you don't want to list "Archive"
14:03:35  <frosch123> that category has no page: see red links at top
14:04:08  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i mean, missing "Main Page" could still show the tree
14:04:12  <frosch123> without further content
14:04:50  <TrueBrain> so if Main Page is missing, show an empty page with only navigation?
14:05:00  <frosch123> exactly :)
14:07:08  <frosch123> meh, why does "Archive" start with A?
14:07:47  <TrueBrain> yeah .. I don't really fancy it :P
14:08:19  <frosch123> should we go the gollum route and add .sidebar.mediawiki to each folder?
14:09:12  <TrueBrain> means people have to maintain it themself?
14:09:22  <TrueBrain> so it becomes like what we have now?
14:09:36  <TrueBrain> (the thing on the right)
14:09:37  <frosch123> maybe we can check what pages it links, and add missing one at the bottom automatically?
14:09:40  <frosch123> too much magic?
14:09:44  <TrueBrain> yup
14:10:02  <TrueBrain> I don't think we should do this .. we can make Category pages that allows you to browse it
14:10:08  <TrueBrain> but this navigation doesn't feel right
14:11:18  <frosch123> hmm, categories sounds nice
14:11:33  <TrueBrain> maybe Folder: or what-ever
14:12:44  <TrueBrain> meh, you cannot loop in mediawiki .. makes some things a bit difficult to write in a mediawiki template :P
14:12:53  <TrueBrain> well, I can loop .. via a template
14:12:54  <TrueBrain> hmm
14:13:23  <frosch123> don't do loops with recursions :)
14:14:18  <TrueBrain> let me know if you have a new data-set with Main Page for all languages :)
14:18:08  <frosch123> will do later, afk for a while now
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14:35:00  <TrueBrain> <- now shows the templates used .. bit easier to navigate :)
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14:48:22  <TrueBrain> frosch123: even after Image: -> File:, things are still a bit broken ofc ... images that cannot be found .. so I agree, manual work :)
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15:50:52  <TrueBrain> hmm .. a bit tricky ... are we going to do /Category:en/NNN or /Category/en/NNN or /en/Category:NNN or /en/Category/NNN
15:50:59  <TrueBrain> I like having /en as prefix all the time tbh
15:51:19  <TrueBrain> so a / or a : ..
15:51:31  <TrueBrain> a / can be confused by a directory I guess, and links are already :
15:51:36  <TrueBrain> so /en/Category:NNN I guess
15:52:45  <frosch123> i would go for Category/en/NNN
15:53:14  <TrueBrain> I have been trying that, but it gives a lot of if/else cases
15:55:25  <TrueBrain> one of the more annoying problems is that wikitext has [[Category: and [[:Category
15:55:31  <TrueBrain> which do two completely different things :P)
15:55:40  <frosch123> yes, same for Template and File
15:56:04  <TrueBrain> template ironicly doesn't really have that issue
15:56:08  <TrueBrain> as it is either {{ or [[
15:56:18  <TrueBrain> so we can fix those in conversion
15:56:26  <TrueBrain> their meaning is the same, basically
15:56:31  <TrueBrain> for category, it means something else
15:57:01  <TrueBrain> wikitext is just a big mess :P
15:57:49  <TrueBrain> ah, no, :File and File are also 2 different things
15:58:13  <TrueBrain> so [[Template is the odd one :P
16:14:04  <TrueBrain> okay, I think I got it ..
16:14:10  <TrueBrain>
16:14:14  <TrueBrain> still empty, mostly
16:14:19  <TrueBrain> but that is the next thing to fix
16:14:52  <TrueBrain> lol @ translations of that category
16:14:57  <TrueBrain> yet another way of doing translations ..
16:15:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #63: [vi_VN] Translator access request
16:15:45  <frosch123> it works though :)
16:15:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #64: [pl_PL] Translator access request
16:15:54  <TrueBrain> it is very inconsistent
16:16:31  <frosch123> is it?
16:16:37  <TrueBrain> the translations, yes
16:17:15  <TrueBrain> , check EN vs CS vs DE vs HU
16:17:19  <TrueBrain> like .. MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MIND
16:17:35  <frosch123> :)
16:17:42  <TrueBrain> but yes, the system works
16:17:47  <TrueBrain> this is a content problem
16:18:02  <TrueBrain> you now have to register namespaces to truewiki, and both "Category" and ":Category", for example
16:18:07  <TrueBrain> you cannot just do one or the other
16:18:32  <TrueBrain> well, not to truewiki, but to wikitexthtml, the library behind it
16:18:47  <TrueBrain> okay, next step is going to be to list the pages
16:19:06  <TrueBrain> owh .. and there is a concept of "subcategories"
16:19:11  <TrueBrain> that will be ... interesting too
16:19:39  <TrueBrain> <- lol .. yet another way of doing translations :D
16:19:43  <TrueBrain> we really did collect them all :)
16:21:31  <frosch123> could already handle subcategories :p
16:22:10  <frosch123> TrueBrain: that category should go into my trash list
16:22:25  <frosch123> we don't need categories of pages/image in language X
16:22:47  <TrueBrain> how do we deal with images that were in categories?
16:22:50  <TrueBrain>
16:22:52  <TrueBrain> as example
16:22:59  <TrueBrain> pretty sure that is completely useless
16:23:14  <TrueBrain> especially as the images look NOTHING like those used in OpenTTD :P
16:23:20  <TrueBrain> not sure what ... is going on there :)
16:23:21  <frosch123> as we do not have File: pages, they should be trashed
16:23:35  <TrueBrain> good!
16:23:40  <frosch123> in fact, unless the category is referenced somewhere else, it should already be trashed
16:23:53  <TrueBrain> yeah, it is
16:23:57  <TrueBrain> just checking it was intended :)
16:24:05  <TrueBrain> well, the cargo category is fine
16:24:08  <TrueBrain> the images in there are not :P
16:24:13  <frosch123> i like the FizzyDrinks image :)
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16:24:32  <TrueBrain> <- found a few broken images
16:24:36  <TrueBrain> I wonder why ..
16:24:56  <TrueBrain> gallery :)
16:25:28  <frosch123> do you support that?
16:25:40  <frosch123> does wikitextparser support that?
16:26:02  <TrueBrain> wikitextparser supports reading the gallery tag
16:26:06  <TrueBrain> the content is simple
16:26:09  <TrueBrain> and I support that, yes
16:26:29  <TrueBrain> it is just an image-link on every line, basically
16:26:43  <TrueBrain> so split on |, first item is the link to the image
16:26:48  <TrueBrain> that part you do have to do manually :)
16:27:06  <TrueBrain> image, _, title = item.partition("|")
16:27:07  <TrueBrain> is what I do
16:27:20  <TrueBrain> with
16:27:21  <TrueBrain>     items = tag.contents.split("\n")
16:27:21  <TrueBrain>     for item in items:
16:37:50  <frosch123> oh my, it was a mistake to join #oftc :)
16:39:06  <frosch123> it was quiet all day, noone around to unban me. and now there are two guys argueing, why they are still banned from some other channel, despite asking the mods twice a day to get unbanned
16:41:22  <LordAro> isn't dwfreed something to do with oftc? perhaps they can help?
16:42:02  <frosch123> oh, it's not that important to bother individual people
16:42:23  <frosch123> it only triggers when i identify to nickserv. and there is actually no much reason to do that in the first place
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17:14:09  <frosch123> <- the image-file-sub() also hit external links. it works, but why is that image called "trains"?
17:14:56  <frosch123> i suspect the author of that wiki page and the author in out wiki are the same person :)
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17:17:08  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i pushed new data. i tried to apply some magic to rename also translated pages: Main Page and trimming some "/"
17:17:18  <frosch123> gallery is next
17:19:27  <andythenorth> wait wat is that
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17:27:00  <TrueBrain> lol .. "trains"
17:27:36  <TrueBrain> frosch123: <- looking good
17:31:12  <TrueBrain> frosch123: happen to know a Category that does exist but doesn't have his own page yet?
17:31:16  <TrueBrain> too lazy to grep for it :P
17:33:27  <frosch123>
17:33:33  <TrueBrain> ty :)
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17:33:47  <frosch123> <- linked from here
17:35:59  <frosch123> or actually via template
17:37:21  <frosch123> <- yeah, the category also contains the template :p
17:39:03  <TrueBrain> owh boy, that is a problem for categories ... I pick up the template, not the pages using the template :)
17:39:43  <TrueBrain> strictly seen the same problem is there for translations
17:39:57  <TrueBrain> but that is less noticable, as it is unlikely templates are used to mark translations :)
17:40:07  <TrueBrain> (of the page they are transcluded on)
17:40:40  <frosch123> yeah, i think you have to pick up the categories while rendering the real page
17:41:02  <TrueBrain> which takes ~10 minutes on a single core :P
17:41:07  <TrueBrain> well, maybe less with this set
17:41:14  <TrueBrain> but yeah, that requires storing in the repo :D
17:41:51  <frosch123> where do you store the rendered pages?
17:42:02  <TrueBrain> I do not yet; I was considering doing that at the same time
17:42:50  <TrueBrain> everything is currently rendered again every request
17:42:52  <TrueBrain> lot easier to develop :)
17:45:00  <TrueBrain> but yeah, due to the includeonly/onlyinclude/noinclude, this is rather hard to deduce without parsing them in full
17:45:47  <frosch123> i would also expect [[Category:{{{1}}}]] :)
17:46:17  <frosch123> i would never got that to work with gollum :)
18:05:53  <TrueBrain> haha, no, that really does require preprocessing :)
18:06:09  <TrueBrain> okay, restarts now take for-ever, as I am preprocessing all pages :D
18:06:19  <TrueBrain> this needs a cache for sure :D
18:08:02  <TrueBrain> mind you that this is also most likely a reason some pages and images are missing
18:08:40  <TrueBrain> but if I push this code to GitHub, you can use my lib to preprocess the pages, and get a completely list of wikilinks :)
18:08:47  <TrueBrain> so that is a relative easy fix
18:08:53  <TrueBrain> just your export takes a few minutes longer :D
18:14:29  <TrueBrain> takes only 90 seconds on a single core to render all pages in the new structure
18:14:32  <TrueBrain> that is a HUGE difference :P
18:14:37  <TrueBrain> well, it only does preprocessing
18:14:39  <TrueBrain> so I guess
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18:28:17  <TrueBrain> just developing is annoying as fuck now .. too lazy to cache this :)
18:32:48  <andythenorth> oops
18:32:54  <andythenorth> reload_newgrfs and newgame are not the same
18:32:58  <andythenorth> both are in my console history :P
18:40:06  <TrueBrain>
18:40:12  <TrueBrain> and for laughs:
18:40:12  <TrueBrain>
18:43:30  <frosch123> sort the entries :)
18:44:04  <TrueBrain> they are sorted :)
18:44:07  <TrueBrain> just not how you want them :P
18:44:11  <TrueBrain> (they are sorted by language too)
18:44:18  <frosch123> i see :)
18:44:36  <TrueBrain> I kinda want to filter out wrong languages or something
18:44:40  <frosch123> i would put subcategories on top
18:44:40  <TrueBrain> as it is just annoying :P
18:45:06  <frosch123> don't filter them. let people fix it :)
18:45:19  <TrueBrain> clearly nobody fixes those things :P
18:45:22  <TrueBrain> order change
18:45:23  <TrueBrain> d
18:45:35  <TrueBrain> I was thinking something like: "Entries with other languages"
18:45:36  <TrueBrain> and list them there
18:46:37  <frosch123> some page per language that lists everything broken?
18:46:54  <frosch123> linking stuff from other languages, missing pages, ...
18:47:35  <TrueBrain> well, missing pages in a category is a bit difficult I suspect :D
18:47:41  <TrueBrain> but something like that
18:47:54  <TrueBrain> owh, you mean 1 with ALL issues
18:47:56  <TrueBrain> that is a bit much
18:48:15  <frosch123> with "missing pages" i mean dead lniks
18:48:30  <frosch123> <- like that page
18:48:47  <TrueBrain> yeah, we can do that too
18:48:53  <TrueBrain> but I also kinda want to show on local pages what is wrong
18:48:58  <TrueBrain> to motivate people when visiting to fix it
18:49:15  <frosch123> <- oh, i should have used that page earlier...
18:58:02  <TrueBrain>
18:58:03  <TrueBrain> LIES
18:58:14  <TrueBrain> <- ghehehe
19:00:49  <TrueBrain> sorry, reloading server ..
19:02:21  <TrueBrain> frosch123: <- see bottom, something like this was what I meant
19:02:38  <TrueBrain> I broke something I see .. those should ofc always be linkable :D
19:04:22  <TrueBrain> yeah, time to reload that :P
19:05:04  <frosch123> i guess when i am done with pages, i'll check which of the categories to trash
19:05:10  <frosch123> looks like there is lots of potential :)
19:06:00  <TrueBrain> <- there we go, much better
19:06:45  <TrueBrain> I also plan to show in "View Source" and "Edit" all the warnings and errors the page generated
19:06:49  <TrueBrain> just to hint people to fix things, tbh
19:06:59  <TrueBrain> it is now all so hidden and "you need to know that special URL"
19:07:03  <TrueBrain> instead of just in-your-face
19:07:08  <TrueBrain> maybe that stimulates a bit more :)
19:08:26  <TrueBrain> <- guess that is a nice place to list all Categories or something :) Dunno yet :P
19:08:36  <TrueBrain> lot of small bits to fix
19:08:41  <TrueBrain> and this is all before we start with the "edit" part
19:08:49  <TrueBrain> but honestly, that is mostly a copy/paste from BaNaNaS
19:08:56  <TrueBrain> OAuth2, git, ..
19:08:57  <TrueBrain> it is all in there
19:13:55  <TrueBrain> well, I wanted to prepare the code today for publishing, but .. I don't feel like it :D
19:13:58  <TrueBrain> maybe tomorrow
19:14:14  <TrueBrain> I will leave the server up for a bit so people can browse around :)
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19:37:35  <frosch123> lol, i only now saw the "Powered by TrueWiki" :)
19:39:32  <TrueBrain> :D
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19:48:40  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: In your future: other sites get fed up of MediaWiki and port to your system, and then you're stuck maintaining it and being shown ever-more-ridiculous pages forever
19:49:05  <andythenorth> like FIRS for industry newgrfs? o_O
19:51:13  <TrueBrain> FLHerne, if it pays enough, I am fine with that ;)
19:54:40  <frosch123> FLHerne: did you see how many bugs tb reported to that poor wikiparser guy? :)
19:55:06  <FLHerne> Yes
19:55:30  <frosch123> is it you?
19:55:37  <andythenorth> it's me :(
19:56:05  <frosch123> andythenorth: can't be, no pyramid
19:56:35  <andythenorth> oof, rumbled
19:56:38  * andythenorth back to ships
19:56:46  <TrueBrain> I fixed as many as I reported.. I hope it didn't stress him out :D
19:56:48  <andythenorth> can we build docks on corner coast tiles?
19:57:20  <frosch123> that's only an interface issue
19:57:40  <frosch123> the way you select the dock direction does not work with corners
19:58:34  <frosch123> you can patch auto-slope under docks, so you can landscape + build dock + reverse landscape
19:58:58  <andythenorth> o_O
19:59:36  <FLHerne> No
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20:01:41  <TrueBrain> Lol
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20:04:46  <LordAro> lol
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20:11:19  <FLHerne> lo⅃
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20:30:19  <andythenorth> oof drawing ships is slow
20:30:29  <andythenorth> I have been drawing one ship since 11am yesterday
20:30:37  <andythenorth> and so far 4 angles are nearly complete
20:31:53  <frosch123> how many pixels has a ship compared to a train?
20:32:06  <frosch123> can you use the ships sprites for 2x trains?
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20:32:26  <andythenorth> this one is 112px long and 26px high
20:32:34  <andythenorth> train is what 32px by 14px?
20:33:33  <andythenorth> unrelated: /me wonders what would happen if pax was split to commuters / long distance
20:33:55  <andythenorth> and newgrf cargos gained a distance flag (or +ve/-ve weighting)
20:34:22  <andythenorth> dunno what that would do to pax flooding cdist networks, but might be interesting
20:34:57  <andythenorth> let the newgrf specify effect of distance on demand
20:37:12  <frosch123> andythenorth:
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20:37:25  <andythenorth> is there a newsletter also? :D
20:37:32  <frosch123> soon you will be able to write essays too :)
20:37:53  <andythenorth> those coop communist bastards
20:38:10  <andythenorth> we need to talk about css, maybe in December
20:38:34  <frosch123> the forum christmas css is pretty unpopular though
20:43:08  <andythenorth> OpenGL snowflakes needed
20:43:18  <andythenorth> hmm, my split pax idea is FAIL
20:43:23  <andythenorth> buses can't refit mixed cargos
20:44:44  <frosch123> oh, you meant ecs tourists
20:44:59  <andythenorth> sort of
20:45:40  <andythenorth> one would prefer intra-town, the other inter-town
20:46:15  <andythenorth> but inter-town pax would still need to transfer within a town
20:46:18  <andythenorth> wouldn't work
20:46:27  <andythenorth> hmm industry to convert passenger types? o_O
20:47:28  <frosch123> like gender?
20:47:37  <andythenorth> all kinds of possibilities
20:47:56  <andythenorth> then express trains, planes, cruise ship, road coaches only do type B pax
20:48:04  <andythenorth> metro, trams, buses, local trains do type A
20:48:15  <andythenorth> and factory converts A<->B on delivery
20:48:33  <FLHerne> Cargo subtypes, but for actual cargos?
20:48:43  <andythenorth> dunno :)
20:48:48  <andythenorth> just thinking of what messes up the meta :)
20:49:01  <FLHerne> That sounds like a total headache
20:49:11  <andythenorth> current meta is '1000 pax waiting on a station because cdist'
20:49:21  <andythenorth> and also 'lots of trains losing money because transfers'
20:50:00  <frosch123> probably good for tax reduction
20:50:29  <andythenorth> we have tax? :o
20:50:38  <andythenorth> is that like statues, which I discovered today?
20:50:43  <andythenorth> always a new thing in ottd :P
20:52:55  <frosch123> i can't believe you did not know about statues. i prefer to think you forgot about them
20:53:27  <andythenorth> let's say I had fuzzy memory
20:53:38  <andythenorth> I knew there were weird rating mechanics to exploit
20:53:51  <andythenorth> the 0 year vehicle thing still weirds me out
20:53:51  <frosch123> statues are just a the-richer-get-richer mechanic
20:54:02  <andythenorth> maybe I put the station rating fixer back into FIRS :P
20:54:03  <frosch123> infinite return of investment
20:54:31  <andythenorth> I removed previous FIRS ratings fixer, 100% removed certain gameplay elements :
20:54:35  <andythenorth> wasn't the best
20:54:56  <andythenorth> maybe I just fix the vehicle age stupidity
20:57:19  <andythenorth> MAYBE I DRAW THIS SHIP!
20:57:24  <andythenorth> oof andythenorth distractions
20:59:38  <glx> <andythenorth> hmm industry to convert passenger types? o_O <-- passenger => green soylent ?
20:59:52  <andythenorth> meme continues
21:02:32  <frosch123> "oil rig doubles passenger production"
21:16:17  * andythenorth should draw oil tankers
21:16:23  <andythenorth> [refittable to pax]
21:16:52  <andythenorth> hmm should I do port and starboard lights on ships?
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21:17:05  <andythenorth> that used to be a top feature of lego ships, but the green lights were rare
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22:07:45  * andythenorth considers automating port and starboard lights
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